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Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => Dapol Steam => Topic started by: rusticged on February 14, 2012, 02:33:22 PM

Title: Dapol A4
Post by: rusticged on February 14, 2012, 02:33:22 PM
 :NGaugersRule: :beers:

Hi Folks

I particularly like the images of the Dapol Member's A4 2509 'Silver Link' in LNER Silver Grey livery. The images appear to be final pre-production or even initial production images. Either way it looks the business and with only 200 being produced I am going to bite the bullet and order one despite the odd reservation about ordering a new, untried, model.

Cheers

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on February 14, 2012, 03:34:08 PM
Sounds good, Ged, but will they do the coaches to go with it?
http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml (http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 14, 2012, 04:22:45 PM
Sounds good, Ged, but will they do the coaches to go with it?
[url]http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml[/url])


Somehow I doubt it given that the train is pretty much unique and has various unique components like bogies to it.

There are drawings available so you'll just have to make your own !
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on February 15, 2012, 08:59:06 PM
There are a load of errors on the model, so I'd assume it's an early prototype:

- no side valances
- front numberplate (never present until BR days)
- speedo drive (again not on the locos until BR days)
- holes for namplate (Silver Link originally had only painted names)
- printed numbers are certainly wrong (size and font) and they were actually metal in real life
- not sure about the tender lettering but it looks wrong also.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on February 15, 2012, 10:09:21 PM
There are a load of errors on the model, so I'd assume it's an early prototype:

- no side valances

If I understand the literature that came with the details about the Dapol Silver Link, they say that they are making their version without side valances as they haven't finished the valanced ones yet, and they have a picture of Silver Link without side valances.  ???  The trouble is, what I can find about Silver Link, she was repainted in LNER blue in 1938 - and I thought that the valances were removed during WW2 to make maintenance easier...

So where Dapol found this photo I have no idea!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: NgaugeDan on February 15, 2012, 10:17:54 PM
I like the look of this model and have just ordered one :-)  I can't wait for it to arrive around April time :-)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mustermark on February 16, 2012, 03:07:35 AM
I left my order by phone today too.  :thumbsup: 8)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: NeilMac on February 16, 2012, 10:46:35 AM
There are a load of errors on the model, so I'd assume it's an early prototype:

- no side valances
- front numberplate (never present until BR days)
- speedo drive (again not on the locos until BR days)
- holes for namplate (Silver Link originally had only painted names)
- printed numbers are certainly wrong (size and font) and they were actually metal in real life
- not sure about the tender lettering but it looks wrong also.

Cheers,
Alan

The irony is that the errors may make the model even more valuable on the collectors' market.

Remember when diecast and stamp collectors used to go crazy for factory-produced 'mistakes'?

Thanks
Neil
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on February 16, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
The irony is that the errors may make the model even more valuable on the collectors' market.

Remember when diecast and stamp collectors used to go crazy for factory-produced 'mistakes'?

Thanks
Neil

Maybe, but why can't they just wait until the correct body is tooled and then do it?

Feels to me like they are rushing it as usual......

Even I'd purchase one if it was correct - but this is too riddled with errors as it is for me.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: silly moo on February 16, 2012, 12:25:27 PM
I've been known to buy locos on colour alone so the errors wouldn't worry me too much. I just wish I felt more confident about getting a good runner.

 :NGaugersRule:

Veronica
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on February 16, 2012, 06:01:27 PM
I have still ordered mine, even despite accuracy; I too am hoping that the picture is of a pre-production model - and I just hope that Dapol are getting them to run better than my B17 (still with BR lines - they did say 14 weeks at least for repair... :()
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on February 16, 2012, 08:03:10 PM
There are a load of errors on the model, so I'd assume it's an early prototype:

- holes for namplate (Silver Link originally had only painted names)
- printed numbers are certainly wrong (size and font) and they were actually metal in real life
Originally Silver Link had both a metal nameplate and numbers (there is a pre-launch photo showing these).  Apparently, Gresley's daughter disliked this & convinced him to have them painted only, and so it was ...  SL never ran with them.

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on February 16, 2012, 08:13:43 PM
Sounds good, Ged, but will they do the coaches to go with it?
[url]http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml[/url])

To the very best of my knowledge, no-one has done the articulated sets in N - but (after some research) I've found a very nice kit of all 7 (or 8, for the 1938 set) coached in OO, and am about to start buying them (slowly !) in articulated sets.  If people are interested I am happy to ask the designer (it turned out I already knew him but hadn't twigged he had done this !) if he would be willing to scale down to N & what he estimates the cost to be ? 

Either post here or PM me ... 

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Ollie3440 on February 16, 2012, 08:46:21 PM
There are a load of errors on the model, so I'd assume it's an early prototype:

As stated on Dapol's Facebook page the picture shown is the First EP and i do believe it is the same one they had on display at Warley last year.

Personally i won't be getting this one as i only collect preserved examples so here hopes we get a Number 9 sometime soon :D

Ollie
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: OwL on February 16, 2012, 08:50:10 PM
Biggest question, how much?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on February 16, 2012, 09:49:22 PM
To the very best of my knowledge, no-one has done the articulated sets in N - but (after some research) I've found a very nice kit of all 7 (or 8, for the 1938 set) coached in OO, and am about to start buying them (slowly !) in articulated sets.  If people are interested I am happy to ask the designer (it turned out I already knew him but hadn't twigged he had done this !) if he would be willing to scale down to N & what he estimates the cost to be ? 

Either post here or PM me ... 

Mike

It would be interesting to know how much a full articulated set in N would be!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 17, 2012, 12:32:00 AM
It would be interesting to know how much a full articulated set in N would be!

Funnily enough with the loco announced I've been staring at the drawings and trying to price some of it. The bogies are in some cases unique, the coaches are unique and there are some fun technical issues. The fairings for example would be just over 1.5mm above the railhead, so you'd better have the track nicely laid with gently gradient transitions.

Another problem is that it kept changing. Every year seems to have seen a change in the design. 1935 it got built, 1936 the dinig layouts partly change. 1937 the bogies changed, an extra coach inserted into one of the articulated sets in 1938, 1939 it got put into store and it was then split up after the war with the fairings modified further.

Makes it a right PITA to model accurately !

I'd guess if you designed to be a reasonably easy to build kit and used some current techniques to make it easy to build it might well be a £500 all in kind of thing - including bogies/wheels/couplers//interiors etc. Modelling the original form saves you a coach and allows the use of existing bogies so saves a chunk.

Fun to do no doubt but I think I'd rather get the 51' non corridor stock and maybe some artics of that done as a rather more practical and useful project.

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on February 17, 2012, 08:05:43 AM
Even if someone managed to build a set of articulated stock, it makes you wonder what minimum radius curves it would negotiate ??? ???
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on February 17, 2012, 09:12:44 AM
If people are interested I am happy to ask the designer (it turned out I already knew him but hadn't twigged he had done this !) if he would be willing to scale down to N & what he estimates the cost to be ? 

Either post here or PM me ... 

It would be interesting to know how much a full articulated set in N would be!
That would initially depend on the amount of interest !  Given the 'start-up' costs for producing the various frets (but at least the design work is all done) ...

As I say, if there is enough interest I'll ask him.

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on February 17, 2012, 09:14:02 AM
Biggest question, how much?
The SL ? £95 + P&P (+ Dapol club membership)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on February 17, 2012, 02:38:47 PM
Even if someone managed to build a set of articulated stock, it makes you wonder what minimum radius curves it would negotiate ??? ???

Close coupler mechanisms work for articulation as well - so that's not really the problem you might think
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on February 19, 2012, 10:37:06 AM
Dapol advert in the NGS Journal 1/12 - releases for January and February:-
ND128a - A4 Andrew K. McKintosh LNER blue
ND128b - A4 Silver Fox BR lined green early crest 60017
ND129a - A3 Lemburg BR lined green late crest 60045
ND129b - A3 Papyrus LNER apple green 2750

Sounds like not long to go for those who want these (if, of course, the dates can be believed)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on February 19, 2012, 11:19:32 AM
Sadly the ad and reality are somewhat at odds with one another.

According to Deve Jones on the "Other" forum we may have BR Green A4s for Ally Pally at the end of March but no indicative date given for A3s yet. Shame, I have had my "Lemberg" ordered for some time now. It is to Dapol's credit that they want to get them "right" but I do think they would be well advised to be alittle more guarded about release dates. Originally these locos were "due" before Christmas.

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on February 19, 2012, 12:33:18 PM
When I spoke with Dapol earlier this week, the SL was slated for April ...

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on March 09, 2012, 06:03:44 PM
Bumping the thread because on page 368 of the April Railway Modeller is a small notice that a limited run of 150 A4's will be produced as 60022 Mallard in experimental BR lined blue.
It will only be available from Modellbahn Union direct - not through the normal Dapol network.
Modellbahn Union will be at TINGS but I wouldn't wait to get your order in
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on March 09, 2012, 07:51:49 PM
Brilliant! Thank's for that NewportNobby you are a star  :thumbsup: They will be on sale at various shows but can be exclusively pre-ordered at DCC Supplies Just ordered one  ;D

Marty

 :A1Tornado:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: railwaysymphony on March 11, 2012, 06:20:03 AM
Aaaaaargh temptation!!!! Although I've already got a Minitrix Mallard, although it's in BR Green. Still would seem funny to have two of the "same" loco!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on March 11, 2012, 09:44:15 AM
If people are interested I am happy to ask the designer (it turned out I already knew him but hadn't twigged he had done this !) if he would be willing to scale down to N & what he estimates the cost to be ? 

No-one interested then ?

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on March 11, 2012, 10:29:01 AM
I would still be interested in finding out how much the set would be!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on March 11, 2012, 03:16:22 PM
OK - me & Paul B - any more ???

I know he won't do it for just 2 !

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Stevie DC on March 11, 2012, 04:23:32 PM
OK - me & Paul B - any more ???

I know he won't do it for just 2 !

Mike

Hi Mike,

I might be interested. How would these be produced?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on March 11, 2012, 05:10:32 PM
At this point : brass kit form, and probably white metal bogeys (tbd, this part); it's unlikely (but not impossible) he'll do 3D printing at some future stage.  But his kits for the SJ (from my research) seem to be the most accurate that are available.  The more interest I can show him, the better our chances of getting a run in N, as he's done all the hard work for OO; it's just scaling down & then getting the first set of frets made (always the most expensive part).

I've just started making his OO version of the rake, carriages A & B (first class) to start off with, and they're nice :)  As there is a slight change in 1938 (from 7 carriages to 8 - new carriage F with the previous F becoming G, thus turning the double into a triple), I'll be making two of the last carriage as well as the new intermediate (if that makes sense  ???); this will let me run both versions of the SJ service.

Once I've done this, I'll probably be buying his West Riding carriages  :smiley-laughing:.  And if SWMBO can define the beavertail in 3D, I'll do a Coronation set (same carriages as the WR, but with the Observation car)  :thumbsup:.  There are some very nice depictions of all three of these sets on http://www.elegantsteam.com/lner_streamlined_trains.html (http://www.elegantsteam.com/lner_streamlined_trains.html)

Mike

PS - he also takes commissions for building/painting kits  :P
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on March 11, 2012, 06:34:37 PM
At this point : brass kit form, and probably white metal bogeys (tbd, this part);

For N I' do wonder if it would be better to use nickel silver from a painting point of view. It makes it possible to paint the sides and then just rub the paint off raised window frames to get the nice shiny metal look.

For bogies it will depend on your year, but for the 8'6" bogies there are a variety available including the Dapol ones.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on March 11, 2012, 06:54:06 PM
Well, at this point it's all moot - unless there is enough interest to him, he won't do it ...

If there is, then we will be able to ask for a suitable medium ...

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on March 11, 2012, 07:47:03 PM
My Silver Jubilee set.http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/857-silver-fox-on-line/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/857-silver-fox-on-line/)

The old Farish A4 is going to be replaced by the new Dapol version when the valanced ones are released.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on March 11, 2012, 08:08:07 PM
Even if someone managed to build a set of articulated stock, it makes you wonder what minimum radius curves it would negotiate ??? ???

12" radius with the articulated section stretched from a scale 2mm to 4mm. I reckon I could have got it down to 3mm but was being a little over cautious.
Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 15, 2012, 07:23:24 PM
Just seen the photos of this loco on RMWeb. It looks amazing - really hope it is a good runner.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Caz on March 15, 2012, 07:27:37 PM
Likewise, just seen the pics on RMWeb of the new Dapol A4, looks stunning.

Now the question is - is there any way other than Rule 1 that I can justify running one of these on my (G)WR/SR layout with perhaps a rake of crimson and custard coaches?

TIA
Caz   
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on March 16, 2012, 08:23:59 PM
Hi caz,

PM sent :wave:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: captainelectra on March 16, 2012, 09:41:50 PM
Quote
Now the question is - is there any way other than Rule 1 that I can justify running one of these on my (G)WR/SR layout with perhaps a rake of crimson and custard coaches?

Locomotive exchanges? Just say that the Southern were so impressed with the A4, they didn't give it back!  ;D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Bikeracer on March 17, 2012, 07:39:43 AM
I've been looking at the pictures of the new Dapol A4 and it really does look very nice,however,until Dapol abandon their company policy of not carrying any spares in case of an accident or damage I'll wait to see what Farish bring out.

Allan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on March 17, 2012, 09:49:50 AM
IMHO this is a superb model and Dapol should be congratulated. There is a virtually endless list of improvements over the now elderly Farish version which I won't go into here. Suffice it to say, I am happy with this model on the whole.
However, my two biggest concerns regarding the overall look of the model are the huge lip around the chimney, which I guess is a legacy of having double and single chimney versions and the massive missing piece of buffer beam once the front coupling has been removed.
I can appreciate the need to include a front coupler, but I suspect that the majority of people will remove it as being unnecessary and unsightly.
I think it would have been better that a retro fit buffer beam option in the add on pack, or that the front coupler be omitted altogether.
As I plan to buy a few of these otherwise superb models, some work in this area will be required.
I wonder what other people think about this and whether Dapol will make this alternative when the run of valanced versions is produced.
Otherwise, nice one Dave, you'll be getting a few hundred of my "hard earned!"
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: red_death on March 17, 2012, 10:57:22 AM
until Dapol abandon their company policy of not carrying any spares in case of an accident or damage I'll wait to see what Farish bring out.

If Dapol' products break due to manufacturing/design faults Dapol till have an obligation to repair it for much longer than the 6 month warranty.  I am not sure that Dapol are much different to Farish in many respects as it is difficult to get hold of spares for many new Farish locos.

On waiting for Farish - you might be waiting a while given that it isn't in their recently announced plans for the next 18 months...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Bikeracer on March 17, 2012, 01:47:41 PM

If Dapol' products break due to manufacturing/design faults Dapol till have an obligation to repair it for much longer than the 6 month warranty.  I am not sure that Dapol are much different to Farish in many respects as it is difficult to get hold of spares for many new Farish locos.

On waiting for Farish - you might be waiting a while given that it isn't in their recently announced plans for the next 18 months...

That's fair comment,but as I posted...in the case of accident or damage there are no spares and TBH I'm not sure they can fulfil their obligation to repair if they have no spares.
I've personally spoken to two retailers recently and they despair of Dapol losing locos sent back and no replacement in the offing either,one retailer said that they're probably only going to carry rolling stock in future.
I'll wait for Farish if it means I can get spares when I break something.

Not sure if it still applies,but the law was that manufacturers had to carry spares for their products for ten years.

Allan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: PLD on March 19, 2012, 09:06:07 AM
I've been looking at the pictures of the new Dapol A4 and it really does look very nice,however,until Dapol abandon their company policy of not carrying any spares in case of an accident or damage I'll wait to see what Farish bring out.
That would be the Farish that since Bachmann bought the company don't carry any spares either?? ::)

Both work in exactly the same way, by canabalising returned items that are beyond-repair to give a stock of parts to repair others. If Dapol have less parts available through this procedure it actually means there must be fewer Dapol locos being returned!! (so your experience is an argument in favour of Dapol...)

Not sure if it still applies,but the law was that manufacturers had to carry spares for their products for ten years.
That only ever applied to Motor Vehicles, there has never been any such law for toys...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Bikeracer on March 19, 2012, 01:05:56 PM

That would be the Farish that since Bachmann bought the company don't carry any spares either?? ::)

Both work in exactly the same way, by canabalising returned items that are beyond-repair to give a stock of parts to repair others. If Dapol have less parts available through this procedure it actually means there must be fewer Dapol locos being returned!! (so your experience is an argument in favour of Dapol...)

That only ever applied to Motor Vehicles, there has never been any such law for toys...

BR lines carry Farish spares but struggle to get Dapol ones.

Dapol cannibalising  returns is probably why retailers are complaining about them losing returned locos.

The law about carrying spares applied to other manufacturers besides car makers.

Allan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: red_death on March 19, 2012, 01:38:08 PM
BR lines carry Farish spares but struggle to get Dapol ones.

Dapol cannibalising  returns is probably why retailers are complaining about them losing returned locos.

Sorry to burst your bubble but BR lines also struggle to get spare parts for new Farish and Paul (PLD) is right that Farish also cannibalise returns...

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on March 19, 2012, 07:17:55 PM

That would be the Farish that since Bachmann bought the company don't carry any spares either?? ::)

Both work in exactly the same way, by canabalising returned items that are beyond-repair to give a stock of parts to repair others. If Dapol have less parts available through this procedure it actually means there must be fewer Dapol locos being returned!! (so your experience is an argument in favour of Dapol...)

That only ever applied to Motor Vehicles, there has never been any such law for toys...

BR lines carry Farish spares but struggle to get Dapol ones.

Dapol cannibalising  returns is probably why retailers are complaining about them losing returned locos.

The law about carrying spares applied to other manufacturers besides car makers.

Allan

Probably why my repaired Dapol B17 came back from BR Lines having been repaired with Dapol B1 parts?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 19, 2012, 09:53:56 PM
Both work in exactly the same way, by canabalising returned items that are beyond-repair to give a stock of parts to repair others. If Dapol have less parts available through this procedure it actually means there must be fewer Dapol locos being returned!! (so your experience is an argument in favour of Dapol...)

Dapol dump a lot of their stuff as "NQP" at factory open days once annually I think. There's plenty of returns - you only had to look on ebay after the last open day for the tranches of "Non-runner" Dapol models. In fact, one particular seller is still selling them off, months later......

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: GWR-Kris on March 20, 2012, 11:17:47 AM
when do dapol usally hold these open days.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 27, 2012, 01:52:10 PM
Some amusing photos here: http://www.ehattons.com/50907/Dapol_Model_Railways_ND128C_A4_60021_Wild_Swan_in_BR_lined_late_green_with_double_chimney/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/50907/Dapol_Model_Railways_ND128C_A4_60021_Wild_Swan_in_BR_lined_late_green_with_double_chimney/StockDetail.aspx)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Stevie DC on March 27, 2012, 01:56:46 PM
I think that Dapol need to check their information more closely! This loco was not named Wild Swan, this one could only be Elvis!  ;D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 27, 2012, 01:58:03 PM
It's so wrong.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: railwaysymphony on March 27, 2012, 02:07:44 PM
Elvis even has a twin in Silver Fox!!

One can only hope that the folks at Hattons simply managed to forget to remove a piece of packaging when they took their photos!

I really need to put one of these on my agenda for this year! Bugger the new car :p
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 27, 2012, 04:02:19 PM
Hi Guys,

Received my A4 'Wild Swan' from hattons today, wow this model is superbly detailed, even without the extras fitted. Even comes with a pair of their new 'kadee' style couplers...cool! :)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 27, 2012, 04:42:48 PM
How does it run Wayne?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Wayne Kinney on March 27, 2012, 07:59:21 PM
Hi,

I seem to have the 'collectors' bug, as I have about 8 new locos that I've bought but never run ;)

I will open the regulator at the weekend and let you know, but man, she's a beaut!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 28, 2012, 09:09:25 AM
Having now seen the pictures on Hattons it's finally become clear what's makes this loco look wrong - something has been bugging me with it. The cylinders are way, way too large (vertically) probably because their underside is incorrectly shaped.

They drop down far too low giving the whole front end a very heavy sagging look. Looking at pictures it's clear that the cylinders on the real locos stop well above the centre of the bogie wheel axle, and curve notably round on their underside. Dapol's are straight up and down, and come much lower - nearly down to the height of the axle on the bogie.

Worse, I do wonder if the front valance under the buffers may not then be the right shape to match the cylinders.

Compare
http://www.freefoto.com/preview/809-14-4874/LNER-Class-A4-4498-Sir-Nigel-Gresley (http://www.freefoto.com/preview/809-14-4874/LNER-Class-A4-4498-Sir-Nigel-Gresley)

with

http://www.ehattons.com/47706/Dapol_Model_Railways_ND128B_A4_class_steam_locomotive_and_tender_60017_Silver_Fox_in_BR_lined_green_with_ear/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/47706/Dapol_Model_Railways_ND128B_A4_class_steam_locomotive_and_tender_60017_Silver_Fox_in_BR_lined_green_with_ear/StockDetail.aspx)

I think they should be modifiable (though it will accentuate the valve gear being low which may force a mod on that too), but if the front end is wrong that could be a deal breaker.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 28, 2012, 09:27:04 AM
Hi,

I seem to have the 'collectors' bug, as I have about 8 new locos that I've bought but never run ;)

I will open the regulator at the weekend and let you know, but man, she's a beaut!

I'd get testing pretty quickly then Wayne!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 28, 2012, 09:32:26 AM
Having now seen the pictures on Hattons it's finally become clear what's makes this loco look wrong - something has been bugging me with it. The cylinders are way, way too large (vertically) probably because their underside is incorrectly shaped.

They drop down far too low giving the whole front end a very heavy sagging look. Looking at pictures it's clear that the cylinders on the real locos stop well above the centre of the bogie wheel axle, and curve notably round on their underside. Dapol's are straight up and down, and come much lower - nearly down to the height of the axle on the bogie.

Worse, I do wonder if the front valance under the buffers may not then be the right shape to match the cylinders.

Compare
[url]http://www.freefoto.com/preview/809-14-4874/LNER-Class-A4-4498-Sir-Nigel-Gresley[/url] ([url]http://www.freefoto.com/preview/809-14-4874/LNER-Class-A4-4498-Sir-Nigel-Gresley[/url])

with

[url]http://www.ehattons.com/47706/Dapol_Model_Railways_ND128B_A4_class_steam_locomotive_and_tender_60017_Silver_Fox_in_BR_lined_green_with_ear/StockDetail.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.ehattons.com/47706/Dapol_Model_Railways_ND128B_A4_class_steam_locomotive_and_tender_60017_Silver_Fox_in_BR_lined_green_with_ear/StockDetail.aspx[/url])

I think they should be modifiable (though it will accentuate the valve gear being low which may force a mod on that too), but if the front end is wrong that could be a deal breaker.

Cheers,
Alan


Didn't you mention previously that they are covering over A3 cylinders Al? If so, maybe that is why they are so overscale.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 28, 2012, 10:46:58 AM
Didn't you mention previously that they are covering over A3 cylinders Al? If so, maybe that is why they are so overscale.

Yes, but I don't see that should be an excuse!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Zunnan on March 28, 2012, 02:21:05 PM
I'm not an A4 fan to be honest, but I think you're right, the cylinders do look to be set too low by quite an amount. And the almost complete lack of curvature where the casing should wrap under the cylinder to the drain cocks is just plain wrong. The front valance also looks out, project a line from the bottom of the valance to the bottom of the cylinder and look at where this line sits across the front bogie wheels. Do the same with the model and its almost a scale foot out, either the body is sitting too low on the chassis, the bogie wheels are too large, or the valance is considerably out. Given that the cylinders sit too low by almost the same amount would suggest that the body sits too low, but the driving wheels are obscured at the top by about the right amount, so I think the whole lower front end is out.

That would bug the hell out of me now that I've noticed it because I don't think its easily fixable, if I wanted one. And it bodes poorly for a fully valanced model as a full valance will clearly show the discrepancy unless corrections were made. Maybe thats why they decided not to do a full valanced model yet, so that corrections can be made. I just love the stick on look of the chimney too, but thats fixable with filler, a file and some black paint.

edit ~

I've had a tinker with an image of the model and added in the parallel lines that the streamlining should take in relation to the cab floor and the approximate position in relation to the size of the bogie wheels.

(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o240/ZunnanDeclawed/Railway%20Modelling/DapolA4.jpg)

Yellow line is the projection of the original valancing and lower limit of the cylinders of the prototype, the thin red line below that is where the cylinders and front valance of the model actually ends. From that quick scribble I'd say the cab floor sits a fraction too high as the vertical line projected forward from this point is too high in relation to the driver axle centers, but its only very slightly out here and could be down to assembly. However, the entire front cylinder and valve gear mounted to it is 2mm+ too low, the slide bar on the prototype is completely obscured by the side valancing. And the front valance is out by the same amount as the cylinders which also appears to drag the buffers too low and so presumably affects the shape and profile of the front end to make up the discrepancy in the valance and buffer height.

Compare the lines I've drawn with THIS (http://www.nrm.org.uk/AboutUs/PressOffice/PressReleases/2011/April/~/media/Images/NRM/pressreleases/york2011/Dominion_large.ashx) profile photo of 'Dominion of Bittern'.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: BernardTPM on March 28, 2012, 03:09:09 PM
Looking at those side-on shots, it looks as though the Dapol casing falls all the way from the front of the cab to the nose whereas the real loco climbs to about where the dome is (under the shrouding, of course), then falls.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 28, 2012, 03:28:25 PM
Zunnan, thanks - and you've confirmed my worst fears - the whole front end is indeed wrong, not just the cylinders.  :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown:

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Zunnan on March 28, 2012, 03:46:24 PM
Looking and thinking about it more, I think they have the measurement from the chimney top to the cylinder bottom about right. The problem is that the whole front end is mounted too low, which results in the cylinders sitting too low. Pack up the body at the front of the chassis by the right amount and I think you'll improve it; the problem here is that the running plate appears to be correct in relation to the drivers. Factor in the missing bulge for the dome (as BernardTPM pointed out) that I hadn't noticed, it looks like the shell is wrong from the cab forwards to the dome instead of from the cylinders down as I had believed. If the tapering down of the front end started from the dome, as it should, then the whole front end would probably sit higher by the right amount as it wouldn't have as far to taper down.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on March 28, 2012, 03:59:15 PM
Dapol seem to have trouble with their steamers. The B1 apparently had errors in the cylinder area (not an LNER man so I cannot confirm). The Hall was reasonably accurate dimensionally but let down by careless detail errors.

Dapol seem to take great care with their diesels (witness the evolution of the Western on RMWeb) but then chuck out steam engines without any great effort. I cannot understand why as in most cases there are prototypes preserved for measuring (or even laser scanning).

Why do steam engines seem to merit second rate development?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 28, 2012, 05:21:44 PM
Oh dear....

I wonder if the Farish shell would fit the Dapol chassis....... ???
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 28, 2012, 05:23:37 PM
it looks like the shell is wrong from the cab forwards to the dome instead of from the cylinders down as I had believed.

To the eye the cylinders still look way too large as compared the prototype - I would need to measure and compare more to see what else is wrong (though the kink in the top of the boiler just behind the chimney *looks* odd also).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: BernardTPM on March 28, 2012, 06:41:35 PM
I wonder if the Farish shell would fit the Dapol chassis....... ???
What about the rather nice Foxhunter kit? That always cried out for larger wheels.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Zunnan on March 28, 2012, 06:55:07 PM
I think its all down to the pitch of the boiler. If you project a horizontal line from the apex of the cab roof forwards, the dome is lower than it should be and the chimney is about as far below the roof height as the cylinders are mounted too low. I think the fix would be to remove the cab and tilt the whole front of the body and cylinders up by the correct amount and then refix the cab onto the shell at the correct angle. This won't fix the running plate, or the 'kink behind the chimney' (which suggests that the front wedge is raked back too far at the top?), but it will mean that the dome, cylinders and chimney are at the correct height.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 28, 2012, 07:45:22 PM
To be honest, none of this would matter too much to me if the loco runs well. My main concern is the running qualities as I have had some real problems with Dapol (and Ixion) steam so far. I have aslo had some winners, so it's not all bad by any means.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on March 28, 2012, 07:56:46 PM
Got my Wild Swan today.

Credit to Dapol, a very nice model and as one would expect a massive improvement on the Farish one.

The loco has the right loping "gait" when it runs too, something the Farish one with it's undersize Drivers does not have. Also, have to say that the lubricator link and speedo drive are lovely touches.

It is a nice smooth runner, but so far slow running not in the B17/Ixion Manor league.

Not to like? Not much, the trailing truck is a little light and not very tolerant of less than perfect trackwork, and the nameplates are not especially vell defined, and not a patch on the Farish A1's.

It will just negotiate a 9 inch curve, but there is nothing to spare, second radius is much better - no problem at all.

Not sure the cylinder size issue is that noticable.

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 28, 2012, 08:39:23 PM
How about the temperature of the motor after a run?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Stevie DC on March 28, 2012, 09:04:05 PM
I saw these at Ally Pally and thought they were very good 'in the flesh'. I can't say I noticed the cylinder issue when viewing the model, I think that this is one of those things that show up more in greatly enlarged photographs.

I haven't got one yet; finances and also I'm thinking of a fix for the lack of valances but most certainly will be buying one or two should Dapol manage to fit valances!

For me the Dapol A4 is a massive improvement on the Farish model as we're getting some great features such as:

- Closer to scale wheels with see through spokes.
- More correct wheelbase.
- Separate handrails.
- Choice of single or double chimney.
- Representation of brake gear.
- Refined valve gear.
- More refined rivet detail.
- Choice of corridor and non-corridor tender (also it doesn't have the cut outs which were only associated with the 1948 exchange locos).
- Couling hook.
- Speedo and lubricator drive linkages.

Yes, I'm sure that there are issues with the model (as people manage to find with Hornby and Bachmann products on 4mm as well...) but I have to say that I'm increasing finding myself disappointed with my older locos as they don't look as good against current productions.

My only concern is that Dapol seem to have a bit of a reputation for poor running. However, I own 6 Dapol locos and they've all run perfectly from the box - I might have been lucky here but once I've got some more funds (and valances!) I'll most certainly be seeing if my luck holds out!  ;D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on March 28, 2012, 09:06:20 PM
In my case, it's 'ignorance is bliss'. If it looks like an A4 it is an A4
I don't have the knowledge to spot such mistakes, so would just say it's an improvement on the last Farish offering. I don't intend to get an A4 of any sort, and can appreciate that to those who know it must be very disappointing that the homework hasn't been done properly/compromise made.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on March 28, 2012, 09:12:14 PM
How about the temperature of the motor after a run?

Warm, but certainly not plastic meltingly hot like my first B1!

Runs fine, but as yet a little "coggy" at very low speed, I am sure this will improve with more running.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on March 29, 2012, 05:26:49 AM
Thanks for the info Roy.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on March 29, 2012, 08:56:09 AM
Warm, but certainly not plastic meltingly hot like my first B1!

Runs fine, but as yet a little "coggy" at very low speed, I am sure this will improve with more running.

Warm to the tender sides means the motor itself is getting pretty hot, which is not exactly brilliant. Do you have an ammeter wired in and could tell us what the current consumption is?

Best regards,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 07, 2012, 05:18:19 PM
My A4 arrived today. Here are my thoughts (also posted in RM Web):

First impressions: The loco looks very attractive in it's case with a new Dapol all over blue sleeve over the clear plastic box. When this is removed the loco sits in it's plastic casing with grey foam packing pieces instead of the old yellow ones. The new packaging looks much more appealing than before and the loco within looks very impressive.

What you get: Within the container is the loco itself, 2 sheets of information, 2 magnetic couplings, spare traction tyres, a bag of spares and detailing extras (including a spanner, spare cardan shaft, Dapol buckeys, screws, coupling, vac pipes etc). The loco is in a see through tray which is similar to the type Dapol have always used for steam locos. The loco has a packing piece on the chimney which just lifts off.

Instructions: There is no advice to run the loco in (maybe this goes without saying now?) The loco needs to have it's motion oiled as per the diagrams, but does not need the gears oiled for another 30 hours. The instructions contain info about DC, DCC, controller types and the warning not to use an electronic track cleaner as discussed here before.

Running the loco: After oiling as instructed the loco is placed on the track and a slight amount of power from a Gaugemaster controller is applied. The loco moves off steadily in both directions and nothing is out of place with the wheels or motion. The loco runs with no wobbles or stutters but does have a rattle to the sound of the mechanism. After running for approx 20 mins the temperature of the tender is checked. The sides are warm, but not hot. The complex valve gear runs well, though the crosshead moves in a slightly odd way over the slide bars. The slow speed is extremely slow and steady, but still noisy. A couple of my recent larger locos (Farish A1 and Dapol Brit) have a problem on my railway over a series of points and this loco stutters also, even though it has plenty of pickups. Everwhere else the pickups work perfectly.

Loco livery and finish: The shade of green is maybe slightly light, but not by much. It is definitely lighter than the Farish A4 or A1 and a similar shade to my Ixion BR Manor. The finish is generally good. My only complaint about this would be that one of the handrails is cut off with an angle and the colour of the wire shows rather than the green of the handrail at the very tip. This is only noticable as it glints in the light but will be easily disguised by a dab of paint. The application of lining etc is excellent and there are no noticable glue marks. The nameplate is ok, but not the best quality. The whistle and safety valves are painted and I believe they are plastic rather than metal fittings, but this could be incorrect. Inside the cab, the detail and painting is excellent.

Pulling ability: After about one hour of running-in I tested the pulling power of the loco; unbelievably powerful is all I can say at this point. The loco was pulling no less than a rake of 20 MK1s and Staniers around some tight curves straights and gentle curves and was showing no real signs of struggling. Only on my tightest curve did it slow slightly for a split second. I do have more coaches, but thought this would be long enough for anyone to get a good idea of its pulling power!

Conclusion: The loco needs to be run in further and so a full conclusion cannot be reached as yet. I do not feel that the loco has the best possible finish, and the sound is quite unpleasant but overall it is a decent loco. The rattling sound is possibly partly caused by the need to have plenty of sideplay in the tender wheels. Possibly there is a fault with my loco and others are quieter than this or maybe it will quieten down with more running as my Brit has. Personally, I don't have any problems with any possible shape issues that have been raised, but this isn't a priority for me; to me the loco looks right. The power of this A4 is beyond dispute and is something I found very impressive. How does the mechanism compare to the farish A1? The Farish loco does not have the power that this has, and I have had problems with pickup reliability and squeaking noises, but the Farish loco is a silent runner mechanism wise. In comparison to a Farish A4, the loco is a massive improvement in details, but maybe not so much in livery and finish. The Farish A4s can be made to run quietly and smoothly, but do not have the power of the Dapol loco. After further running the tender seems to be cooler to the touch. Although the instructions say the tender top is removed by simply unclipping, I cannot free it for the life of me! As a rating for now I would give it an overall 7/10, this may increase with more running in.

Comparison between the Farish and Dapol models (the Farish loco has replacement bogie and front details):

(http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5072/6907582676_35d01c5d37_b.jpg)

(http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7232/6907581492_d9cdb8936c_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Zunnan on April 07, 2012, 06:38:17 PM
The first photo shows the shape issue perfectly. Look at the Dapol (lower) A4 and the top of the cladding is almost dead straight from the cab all the way to the first lining ring over the cladding. The Farish model however visibly changes angle between the 3rd and 4th ring and the whole cladding then visibly begins to curve downward towards the nose. This is part of what makes it (the Dapol A4) look wrong to me when standing 4 feet away, and with my eyesight I can barely see the finer detail at that distance. Out of interest, can you post a photo of the Dapol A4 front end buffered up to a coach so we can see the relative buffer heights?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 07, 2012, 08:07:04 PM
Hi Zunnan,

Very, very slightly lower than a Mk1 or Stanier's buffer height. Really hard to see any difference.

Has anyone here successfully removed the tender top?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on April 07, 2012, 09:54:26 PM
Ian - many thanks for a most comprehensive review :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mustermark on April 07, 2012, 10:08:46 PM
Nice review. Thanks for taking the time.

I love that little glimpse of the layout.  The vegetatn is excellent and the wall with the drian holes is superb.  Great spot to photo those beautiful engines. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 08, 2012, 07:38:32 AM
Thanks a lot. I have found the A4 runs slightly quieter with a drop of Power Lube on the tender bearings. It still sounds pretty rough though.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: 4x2 on April 08, 2012, 12:40:24 PM
Haveing seen and heard Ian's Dapol A4 in action (any excuse to sit and watch trains go around on his brilliant 'Elvinley' layout !) I have to say I agree with his reveiw completely... The Dapol A4 is very well detailed and does look the part (a few minor issues, but i really don't think they are important - unless you like counting rivets... :evil: to me it looks every inch an A4).

To my mind the biggest issue is the noise ! The loco runs nice and smooth, but the motor and tender wheels sets make such a racket it just spoils the experience... Even more so as Ian was also running his various other Farish A4's which were virtually silent ! Ian added a bit of Peco Electrolube to the tender axles and this made a huge difference, but was still louder than even the Dapol/Ixion manor that he also ran that night. I do think that it will get better as the mech beds in over time, removing the tender to access the DCC socket is tricky as the Dapol instructions are very poor in this respect ' Just unclip the tender body' it says - try it ! Both me and Ian tried and it wouldn't budge, a screwdriver would have been the next step but we decided to leave alone for now !

Overall it is a great looking loco, runs smoothly but noisily, I would agree with Ian's 7/10, but if it quietens down after running in I may give it 8/10. I mostly model US stuff, but I would buy one if it's Garter blue with a 'certain' type of ducks name on it.... Come on Dapol - you know we want it !  ;D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 08, 2012, 02:09:44 PM
Unfortunately it has started making a horrible screeching noise a bit like the old pancake motors used to make. A little oil to the motor bearing often helped with the OO locos that did this, but we are warned in the instructions not to do this. It may have to be another dapol loco that goes back. Sigh!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: 4x2 on April 08, 2012, 05:41:56 PM
Unfortunately it has started making a horrible screeching noise a bit like the old pancake motors used to make. A little oil to the motor bearing often helped with the OO locos that did this, but we are warned in the instructions not to do this. It may have to be another dapol loco that goes back. Sigh!
oh dear....  here we go again ! ::) Sorry to hear thats the case, hope it gets sorted quickly !  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on April 08, 2012, 05:51:44 PM
Oh no that's terrible news  :(. Hope you persevere with returning faulty loco's until you get a good 'un. After loads of bad luck in getting a good B1 I eventually ended up with a beauty so it does pay to persevere.

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on April 08, 2012, 06:24:08 PM
, but I would buy one if it's Garter blue with a 'certain' type of ducks name on it.... Come on Dapol - you know we want it !  ;D

What's that then - DONALD ??? :evil:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: 4x2 on April 08, 2012, 06:52:56 PM
, but I would buy one if it's Garter blue with a 'certain' type of ducks name on it.... Come on Dapol - you know we want it !  ;D

What's that then - DONALD ??? :evil:
I should of put a tenner on that you'd say that !!!  :smiley-laughing:

Well done newportnobby - good to see your still on form ! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on April 08, 2012, 06:57:08 PM
That duck in BR Blue no use ?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 08, 2012, 08:49:13 PM
With a bent wire, I managed to get a little bit of oil onto the shaft just behind where the cardan shaft sits in the loco and it seems to have solved the problem so far.

Update: It hasn't.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 14, 2012, 04:17:26 AM
I sent my faulty loco back to the seller I had it from and my replacement arrived today. I am giving it a run-in now but it's not looking good. One side of the loco lifts as it traverses any set of points.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: silly moo on April 14, 2012, 07:44:44 AM
Sorry to hear that Elvinley, it must be very frustrating. I hope you do eventually get a good one.

It's very dissappointing to hear that things don't seem to have improved much, I was optimistically hoping the the A3s and A4s would be more trouble free.

It's an improvement to have a better guarantee but you still have the problem of posting locos backwards and forwards and being without them when they are being replaced or repaired.

I does tend to make you lose confidence in the manufacturer.

Regards

Veronica.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on April 14, 2012, 10:19:46 AM
Sorry to hear about this!
My silver fox has fun perfectly since buying it no problems
I have brough 5 dapol loco's in 2 months an A4, Brit, 9f, hall and a terrier and all are perfect!
It's weird alot of people seem to have problems with even replacement loco's yet I buy 5 and they all work I must be lucky!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on April 14, 2012, 10:37:24 AM
This is a real shame for Dapol, and Dapol customers.
The new guarantee from the company must be a comfort for those customers with less than perfect models.
I must say though, just to create some balance, all my Dapol locomotives are fine. Maybe like K-N-Gauge I have just been lucky. My mate GB no 9 is however on his third or fourth attempt at the B1. The motor runs so hot, even after a short run, that the tender distorts because of the heat. Dapol have replaced each one without any quibble, but he is on the verge of giving up.
I am waiting for A3 Papyrus which I have on order, and the valanced A4s, so I'm hoping that my lucky streak continues! (wey-hey)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 14, 2012, 10:59:15 AM
It's the same old story that some are lucky, but there is obviously still a big issue here. I am just going to stick to my Farish A4s as they are good enough for me and run very well.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: rusticged on April 19, 2012, 04:38:26 PM
 :wave:
Hi Folks
I must be another of those lucky ones.
I have both of the green A4s from Dapol and I am really pleased with both of them. They look superb! They were a little noisy to begin with but I oiled the tender axles (which seemed to be where most of the noise was coming from) and after about 30 minutes of running they have quietened down nicely. I am very impressed with the haulage capacity and they run well over my mixture of Peco track and Kato points.
 :beers:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on April 19, 2012, 04:59:28 PM
:wave:
Hi Folks
I must be another of those lucky ones.
I have both of the green A4s from Dapol and I am really pleased with both of them. They look superb! They were a little noisy to begin with but I oiled the tender axles (which seemed to be where most of the noise was coming from) and after about 30 minutes of running they have quietened down nicely. I am very impressed with the haulage capacity and they run well over my mixture of Peco track and Kato points.
 :beers:
Glad to hear it :)
Mine was abit noisy before being run in but like you mine has quietened down nicely, the metal chassis's on these are a real good base and weighty it outpulls all my other loco's including minitrix stuff
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on April 19, 2012, 05:09:32 PM
but I oiled the tender axles

Remember these are pickups, so you need to use a conductive lubricant or it'll reduce pickup capability.

Best Regards,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: davieb on April 25, 2012, 09:42:13 PM
hi all  :thumbsup:

after seeing one of the A4s in the flesh on monday i just had to get one  :angel:  :smiley-laughing:

the loco was oiled as per the instructions and i started to run it in and found that yes the tender wheels make a right racket so i put some power-lube on the bearings as suggested above and hey presto no more noise  :)
then after another 30 mins i started to get a screeching noise coming from the loco but it was difficult to tell just where it was coming from
so i placed it on my new wheel cleaning gizzmo and could tell right away that it was coming from the driving wheels  :-\

so i removed the keeper plate to have a look and found the factory applied grease everywhere apart from on the gear train  :o
so i removed the excess grease and applied a small amount of oil and tried again
still there was the screeching  ::)
so i thought to myself if the tender wheels could make a noise what about the driving wheels
so i applied a small drop of power-lube to the driving wheel bearings and tried again

that solved the problem no more screeching  :thumbsup:

i now have an A4 that runs extremely well the tender barely gets warm even after a 15min run with 10 coaches in tow at 3/4 power

so i have to say with a bit of TLC i now have a loco that i am totally happy with and it looks like Dapol are onto a winner
it may not be perfect but i'm happy even if my layout is supposed to be based in the NW so it will be running railtours and Football specials  ;D

dave  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on April 25, 2012, 09:49:56 PM
Hi Dave :wave:
Glad you sorted it and are pleased with it :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on April 25, 2012, 10:14:01 PM
glad you got a good one like me :D
powerful little things!
which one did you get?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: davieb on April 25, 2012, 10:22:53 PM
i got Late crest Wild Swan

yes they are powerful it's currently going round my layout with 13 coaches in tow 5 Pullmans and 8 Mk1s

everything on the A4 looks to be build to a much higher standard than the Brit that i had to return  :thumbsup:
even the wire connections between the loco and tender look like they are made to last (touches wood)  :smiley-laughing:

at this rate i may have to spend some more money when Flying Scotsman is released  :angel:

so when my layout built to represent lancashire in the mid-late 60s is finished it looks like plenty of railtours will be running  :smiley-laughing:  :smiley-laughing:  ;D

dave  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on April 25, 2012, 10:38:16 PM
i got Late crest Wild Swan

yes they are powerful it's currently going round my layout with 13 coaches in tow 5 Pullmans and 8 Mk1s

everything on the A4 looks to be build to a much higher standard than the Brit that i had to return  :thumbsup:
even the wire connections between the loco and tender look like they are made to last (touches wood)  :smiley-laughing:

at this rate i may have to spend some more money when Flying Scotsman is released  :angel:

so when my layout built to represent lancashire in the mid-late 60s is finished it looks like plenty of railtours will be running  :smiley-laughing:  :smiley-laughing:  ;D

dave  :thumbsup:
i got the silver fox :D and i agree the connections seem abit thicker on these
the flying scotsman should be a treat  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on May 02, 2012, 08:46:06 AM
I have taken the plunge and ordered 'White Swan'
I will have to justify it's existence in Oxfordshire though, probably one of the many football specials that ran in those days. After all, there was a cross country line from Cambridge to Oxford which I believe may be re-opened. I will have to check my book 'Last days of steam in Oxfordshire' as I'm sure I've seen some pics of A4's in the region.
I do not use Rule 1.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 02, 2012, 12:51:29 PM
Right choice  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: GWR-Kris on May 02, 2012, 01:19:06 PM
Im looking forward to see the Mallard when it comes out.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 02, 2012, 02:01:33 PM
Iv seen mallard at ally pally and she looks good!
I'm just waiting for the side parts of the A4 to be added finally! Lol
I have the fox and it looks good but now I want one with the sides
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on May 02, 2012, 06:12:47 PM
I have taken the plunge and ordered 'White Swan'
I will have to justify it's existence in Oxfordshire though, probably one of the many football specials that ran in those days. After all, there was a cross country line from Cambridge to Oxford which I believe may be re-opened. I will have to check my book 'Last days of steam in Oxfordshire' as I'm sure I've seen some pics of A4's in the region.
I do not use Rule 1.

The Oxford-Cambridge line hosted all sorts of locos and it isn't beyond possibility that an A4 may have visited Oxford via that route. Even if not I'd certainly apply Rule 1 and devise a plausible reason.

Interestingly Oxford was one of the few places in the UK where it was possible to witness locos from all four BR regions in England visiting.

Cheers

Roy

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on May 02, 2012, 06:22:45 PM
I have taken the plunge and ordered 'White Swan'
I will have to justify it's existence in Oxfordshire though, probably one of the many football specials that ran in those days. After all, there was a cross country line from Cambridge to Oxford which I believe may be re-opened. I will have to check my book 'Last days of steam in Oxfordshire' as I'm sure I've seen some pics of A4's in the region.
I do not use Rule 1.

The Oxford-Cambridge line hosted all sorts of locos and it isn't beyond possibility that an A4 may have visited Oxford via that route. Even if not I'd certainly apply Rule 1 and devise a plausible reason.

Interestingly Oxford was one of the few places in the UK where it was possible to witness locos from all four BR regions in England visiting.

Cheers

Roy

Thanks, Roy.
It's the reason I selected that area as I spent many happy hours spotting at Oxford (having travelled across from Bletchley), and it was an easy way to get some numbers from all the regions. ;)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: davieb on May 02, 2012, 06:34:38 PM
hi mick  :wave:

don't forget that as well as Football specials there was also Railtours worked all over the network using A4s

Sankey scenics do headboards for SLS and RCTS railtours

dave  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Pengi on May 02, 2012, 06:38:17 PM
Is it White Swan or Wild Swan?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on May 02, 2012, 07:08:30 PM
Is it White Swan or Wild Swan?

Doh! Ride a white swan was on the radio when I typed that. Of course, it's Wild Swan :-[ :-[ :-[
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: davieb on May 02, 2012, 07:10:59 PM
easy mistake to make :-X

unless he's has a thing for whiteswans that he's not telling us about  :smiley-laughing:  :smiley-laughing:  :smiley-laughing:

dave  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Pengi on May 02, 2012, 07:27:00 PM
I think the Wild Swan looks a great model but I can't have a swan on my layout as it would eat the worms (of the multicoloured variety) :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on May 02, 2012, 10:42:14 PM
I think the Wild Swan looks a great model but I can't have a swan on my layout as it would eat the worms (of the multicoloured variety) :smiley-laughing:

 :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing: :smiley-laughing:

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Irish Padre on May 02, 2012, 10:54:19 PM
hi mick  :wave:

don't forget that as well as Football specials there was also Railtours worked all over the network



So that means I could have justified having an A4 in Merseyside c 1960 !!  I ordered a blue Deltic instead for my birthday, which I'm very happy with, but if I can excuse the presence of an A4.........where's my Christmas list?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: silly moo on May 03, 2012, 06:38:23 PM
There is a picture of Andrew K McCosh in LNER blue on Dapol's Facebook page - it looks wonderful!

I might have to rob a bank!

 :Dapol:


Regards

Veronica.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on May 03, 2012, 07:47:35 PM
Wild Swan arrived today. After oiling the motion as per the instructions she set off down the track and my first thought was "By heck, she's a noisy bugger". Further running quietened things down a bit but there is still a slight intermittent screeching at anything above a slow speed. Both front and rear bogies seem to float somewhat aimlessly unless running at a fair lick, but I've put this down to my test track not being the best and having 1st radius curves.
So far the running does not match the looks but I think she will improve and I'll persevere. I'll see what happens when better track is laid, especially as my test oval has no pointwork. So far 6 out of 10 :-\
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on May 03, 2012, 08:10:47 PM
Sounds similar to my experience. Somehow though there seems to be a lot of happy customers. Some of us are probably more demanding than others. At this price I think it is reasonable to expect a great runner.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on May 03, 2012, 09:10:16 PM
Yeah - it's certainly a concern as I have the BoB Spitfire and the class 2884 on pre-order
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: hairygit on May 03, 2012, 09:11:32 PM
Elvinley:  No, I don't think we expect too much at all, we pay what is an obscene amount for some of our locos, and when you buy something new it is perfectly reasonable to expect it to work properly straight out of the box ::) Why should we have to fiddle with and fine tune them? We should not have to adjust things to make them work, pick ups should all work properly without our intervention, locos should not have quartering or valve gear issues, basically the manufacturers should sit up and take notice of what is happening, test them thoroughly before packing and despatch, and avoid disappointed customers at all costs. And the complete lack of spares other than cannibalising other locos is criminally negligent in my opinion :thumbsdown: It stinks of making a quick buck and stuff you, we've got your money, put up or shut up >:(
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on May 03, 2012, 10:55:59 PM
Sounds similar to my experience. Somehow though there seems to be a lot of happy customers. Some of us are probably more demanding than others. At this price I think it is reasonable to expect a great runner.

I think I am pretty demanding and you can be sure that if I hadn't been happy with the way mine ran it would have gone straight back. As things are though my Wild Swan is up to about ten hours of running now and it has got better and better. It is not a silent runner like Farish locos but still quite acceptable now.

I guess I have been lucky thus far in general, ironically in fact I have had on a proportionate basis more issues with diesels than steam.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on May 03, 2012, 11:02:08 PM
Elvinley:  No, I don't think we expect too much at all, we pay what is an obscene amount for some of our locos, and when you buy something new it is perfectly reasonable to expect it to work properly straight out of the box ::) Why should we have to fiddle with and fine tune them? We should not have to adjust things to make them work, pick ups should all work properly without our intervention, locos should not have quartering or valve gear issues, basically the manufacturers should sit up and take notice of what is happening, test them thoroughly before packing and despatch, and avoid disappointed customers at all costs. And the complete lack of spares other than cannibalising other locos is criminally negligent in my opinion :thumbsdown: It stinks of making a quick buck and stuff you, we've got your money, put up or shut up >:(

Can't argue with that! As much as I like all the new Farish and most Dapol steam locos most of them require some adjustments. They both still suffer from the odd wobbly wheel or two (Farish and Dapol), pickups become intermittant and require dismantling of locos (Farish), oiling has to be done just right, locos run hot (Dapol) and some are really noisy (Dapol), and this is often the ones that don't have a more serious problem! Recently I have had so many problems I think things may be getting worse rather than improving. This statement is based on 2 faulty Manors, 2 faulty A4s, 2 faulty A1s, a faulty 121, and a faulty 58.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on May 03, 2012, 11:04:25 PM
Sounds similar to my experience. Somehow though there seems to be a lot of happy customers. Some of us are probably more demanding than others. At this price I think it is reasonable to expect a great runner.

I think I am pretty demanding and you can be sure that if I hadn't been happy with the way mine ran it would have gone straight back. As things are though my Wild Swan is up to about ten hours of running now and it has got better and better. It is not a silent runner like Farish locos but still quite acceptable now.

I guess I have been lucky thus far in general, ironically in fact I have had on a proportionate basis more issues with diesels than steam.

Regards

Roy

I think it is bound to vary from person to person and some people are simply more lucky with their locos. It doesn't alter the fact that it shouldn't be such a gamble. The blue A4 looks great and if I could get one that would definitely run properly on my railway I would gladly pay the price for it.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 04, 2012, 01:46:40 AM
Couldnt agree more like me Iv never had a problem with any of my locomotives, but the some people seem to get bad after bad replacements, they must all come from the same batch which means there QC needs a rethink
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Bikeracer on May 04, 2012, 07:34:14 AM
From what I know about machine tools and I imagine would apply to anything made in China,the Chinese are perfectly capable and able to make things to a very high standard.

The problem with the quality of the locos we get is that the people giving them orders to make things only think of the bottom line and what they can get away with,if they were willing to pay for the production of quality trouble free locos the Chinese would and could happily produce them.
It's watching the bottom line that stops them bothering to have spares made.

Anything new shouldn't require tinkering with and on the majority of things we buy would invalidate any warranty.

Allan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: silly moo on May 04, 2012, 07:49:48 AM
I have heard that most things nowdays are batch tested ie. if one in a batch of ten is tested and is ok, then it is assumed the other nine are too.  The final testing is done by the customer.   :(

To have every item tested properly would push the price up too much. Then the locos would cost 200 pounds each!

Regards

Veronica

 :NGaugersRule:

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on May 04, 2012, 08:51:45 AM
No batch testing of model trains. We customers are the only quality control, that is why it is important to return duff models and get replacements. It is the only QC feedback manufacturers get.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 10, 2012, 05:13:57 PM
Bad news for anyone waiting on silver link!

http://www.dapol.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=752&Itemid=65 (http://www.dapol.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=752&Itemid=65)

It's a shame :(
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 10, 2012, 05:17:03 PM
Though it does seem they will be addressing some of the errors on it :D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on May 10, 2012, 05:26:47 PM
If it means they are going to get the valances on it then I don't mind waiting! (And it means less on my credit card for now...  :-[ )
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 10, 2012, 05:38:48 PM
If it means they are going to get the valances on it then I don't mind waiting! (And it means less on my credit card for now...  :-[ )
How long does it take to make some side valances? Lol
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on May 10, 2012, 05:49:10 PM
I think the problem is the width of the loco with the valve gear.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on May 10, 2012, 06:06:51 PM
So, does anyone know whether Silver Link will be produced with the correct full valances for the livery, hence the clearance issues, or is the picture showing no valances correct?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on May 10, 2012, 06:25:54 PM
I see they quote 'mid summer'. Is that this year ::)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on May 10, 2012, 07:31:28 PM
They didn't say ... !  :evil:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on May 10, 2012, 07:33:52 PM
I think the problem is the width of the loco with the valve gear.

Which raises the obvious question  - if they change the valve gear to get round this will future unvalanced versions be better than the Mk1 models? If so is this another case of don't buy a Dapol 1st batch release...?

I already noticed that the valve gear (in particular the slidebars and crosshead) are different on the A3 and A4 models which is odd - I'd have thought they'd be common to both classes.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on May 10, 2012, 07:40:27 PM
Which raises the obvious question  - if they change the valve gear to get round this will future unvalanced versions be better than the Mk1 models? If so is this another case of don't buy a Dapol 1st batch release...?
A good question. Perhaps the valve gear will be simplified to omit the parts behind the valence? (wild speculation on my part).
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 10, 2012, 08:35:29 PM
My silver fox hasn't had a problem with the valve gear but maybe other people have?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on May 10, 2012, 09:32:55 PM
It's just that they are slightly over-wide and the valances would need to be very wide to clear them.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 11, 2012, 12:28:30 AM
Very true!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: mickeyflinn on May 11, 2012, 08:34:55 AM
I'm now on my second 'Wild Swan'. Bought off that auction site, but the first one was extremely noisy, the drive clicked and jammed when going forward and, worst of all, one of the tyred driving wheels was higher than the others causing the engine to rock. Seller was excellent and replaced within a week - new one is still noisy but is otherwise excellent.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 12, 2012, 12:22:10 AM
Odd some people said they quietened down the more you use them, mine was great out of the box
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on May 12, 2012, 07:56:14 AM
Want to sell it? ;)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: mickeyflinn on May 12, 2012, 11:01:52 AM
Just converted 'Wild Swan' to DCC using a Digitrax DZ125IN. Getting much finer control than I was on DC, but is still noisy compared to my 9F and Britannia Tornado. Hopefully will get quieter the more it runs.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on May 12, 2012, 11:07:30 AM
Just converted 'Wild Swan' to DCC using a Digitrax DZ125IN. Getting much finer control than I was on DC, but is still noisy compared to my 9F and Britannia Tornado. Hopefully will get quieter the more it runs.
I dot know if this is the same reason or not but the peco collet is fairly noisy but if you take the tender off it becomes dead quiet!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: mickeyflinn on May 12, 2012, 11:19:47 AM
Just converted 'Wild Swan' to DCC using a Digitrax DZ125IN. Getting much finer control than I was on DC, but is still noisy compared to my 9F and Britannia Tornado. Hopefully will get quieter the more it runs.
I dot know if this is the same reason or not but the peco collet is fairly noisy but if you take the tender off it becomes dead quiet!
I think that is more than likely the case. There is an awful lot of empty space inside the tender, so it will act as a soundbox. Very tempted to use a small amount of self adhesive foam insulation to the space to see if there's an improvement - only trouble is, is that the tender top is a pain to remove, the drive shaft goes through a hole not a slot, and the shaft is a right pain to refit into the loco as it's so long.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: kenbury on May 30, 2012, 09:03:53 PM
hi bought mallard on saturday did a test run seemed o k  run it tonight the valve gear on one side fell off very disappointed
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on June 26, 2012, 05:24:03 PM
iv got the mallard in lner blue livery. few pointers....

1/ first model sounded like a car struggling to get into gear, so the model shop replaced it with a new one

2/the second model did the same thing but alot quieter, so it was sent back to dcc supplies

it was sent back after a week and works perfectly now so happy with that, i think its a beautiful model...

im looking forward to see these new silver models come out, for those who dont know, they are releasing silver link in the silver livery in a book set with a rake of silver coaches. along with other silver locomotives, may well have to buy one, prices looking at £200+ for the book set.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on June 26, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
im looking forward to see these new silver models come out, for those who dont know, they are releasing silver link in the silver livery in a book set with a rake of silver coaches. along with other silver locomotives, may well have to buy one, prices looking at £200+ for the book set.
Silver link is being released as a special for Dapol Nthusiast club members. I am not aware that it will be onsale generally.

I am pretty sure that there will not be a book set. The only coaches painted in matching silver livery were the special articulated sets. Dapol have already said they do not plan to make these as they are too limited.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on June 26, 2012, 07:34:03 PM
im looking forward to see these new silver models come out, for those who dont know, they are releasing silver link in the silver livery in a book set with a rake of silver coaches. along with other silver locomotives, may well have to buy one, prices looking at £200+ for the book set.
Silver link is being released as a special for Dapol Nthusiast club members. I am not aware that it will be onsale generally.

I am pretty sure that there will not be a book set. The only coaches painted in matching silver livery were the special articulated sets. Dapol have already said they do not plan to make these as they are too limited.

I can't find any reference to a book set either, and have to agree with Karhedron. I thought that the silver A4s were for club members only and that there were no plans to produce the Silver Jubilee train. I'd be interested to know where you have heard about a book set
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on June 26, 2012, 08:09:51 PM
im looking forward to see these new silver models come out, for those who dont know, they are releasing silver link in the silver livery in a book set with a rake of silver coaches. along with other silver locomotives, may well have to buy one, prices looking at £200+ for the book set.
Silver link is being released as a special for Dapol Nthusiast club members. I am not aware that it will be onsale generally.

I am pretty sure that there will not be a book set. The only coaches painted in matching silver livery were the special articulated sets. Dapol have already said they do not plan to make these as they are too limited.

I can't find any reference to a book set either, and have to agree with Karhedron. I thought that the silver A4s were for club members only and that there were no plans to produce the Silver Jubilee train. I'd be interested to know where you have heard about a book set

I heard it from my mate whorunsa model shop where i live, he was told in an email from dapol
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on June 26, 2012, 08:11:33 PM
im looking forward to see these new silver models come out, for those who dont know, they are releasing silver link in the silver livery in a book set with a rake of silver coaches. along with other silver locomotives, may well have to buy one, prices looking at £200+ for the book set.
Silver link is being released as a special for Dapol Nthusiast club members. I am not aware that it will be onsale generally.

I am pretty sure that there will not be a book set. The only coaches painted in matching silver livery were the special articulated sets. Dapol have already said they do not plan to make these as they are too limited.

I can't find any reference to a book set either, and have to agree with Karhedron. I thought that the silver A4s were for club members only and that there were no plans to produce the Silver Jubilee train. I'd be interested to know where you have heard about a book set

I heard it from my mate whorunsa model shop where i live, he was told in an email from dapol

Thanks Portland Docks, I'll have to look out for that!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on June 26, 2012, 08:14:31 PM
Might just be a case of they are thinking of doing like but havent actually confirmed it, i will get one if it happens though
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on June 26, 2012, 08:16:39 PM
Might just be a case of they are thinking of doing like but havent actually confirmed it, i will get one if it happens though

Having already scratch built the whole train it will be a case of 'sods law' for me!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on June 26, 2012, 08:52:11 PM
Having already scratch built the whole train it will be a case of 'sods law' for me!
Ooo, I would like to see that. Any chance of some piccies?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on June 26, 2012, 08:59:42 PM
Having already scratch built the whole train it will be a case of 'sods law' for me!

Ooo, I would like to see that. Any chance of some piccies?


I thought you'd maybe seen then on the 'other forum'
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/857-silver-fox-on-line/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/gallery/album/857-silver-fox-on-line/)

Hull Model Railway Show (November 2010) part two. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZORtwDGXsZs#ws)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on June 26, 2012, 10:40:15 PM
That's a nice set you made there!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: scruff on July 18, 2012, 10:27:51 PM
Another set of A4 loco's due from dapol.

ND128F        A4 60016 ‘SILVER KING’ BR LINED GREEN EARLY CREST
ND128FD      A4 60016 ‘SILVER KING’ BR LINED GREEN EARLY CREST DCC FITTED
ND122G        A4 60005 ‘SIR CHARLES NEWTON’ BR LINED GREEN CREST
ND122GD      A4 60005 ‘SIR CHARLES NEWTON’ BR LINED GREEN LATE CREST DCC FITTED
ND128H        A4 #8 ‘DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER’ LNER GREEN
ND128HD      A4 #8 ‘DWIGHT D. EISENHOWER’ LNER GREEN DCC FITTED
2S-008-000   A4 #60019 “BITTERN” BR GREEN LATE LOGO (DOUBLE CHIMNEY)
2S-008-000D A4 #60019 “BITTERN” BR GREEN LATE LOGO (DOUBLE CHIMNEY) DCC FITTED
2S-008-001   A4 #60005 “DWIGHT D EISENHOWER” BR GREEN EARLY CREST
2S-008-001D A4 #60005 “ DWIGHT D EISENHOWER” BR GREEN EARLY CREST DCC FITTED
2S-008-002   A4 #4498 “SIR NIGEL GRESLEY “ LNER BLUE (PRESERVED) DBL CHMNY
2S-008-002D A4 #4498 “SIR NIGEL GRESLEY “ LNER BLUE (PRESERVED) DBL CHMNY DCC FITTED
2S-008-003   A4 #60004 “WILLIAM WHITELAW” GARTER BLUE (BRITISH RAILWAYS)
2S-008-003D A4 #60004 “WILLIAM WHITELAW” GARTER BLUE (BRITISH RAILWAYS) DCC FITTED

Looks like it will be expensive for anyone who likes the A4! :thumbsup:

Cheers

Mark
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 19, 2012, 08:08:40 AM
Just for you, Pendy - Bittern :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Pengi on July 19, 2012, 08:15:33 AM
Just for you, Pendy - Bittern :thumbsup:

Yikes - Bittern is the only steamie that I like. I suppose I could couple it to my FGW dynamic lines coaches and run a heritage train. Need to think about this.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: PLD on July 19, 2012, 08:41:41 AM
Another set of A4 loco's due from dapol.
Still no word on the valenced ones though...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on July 19, 2012, 08:58:26 AM
Still no word on the valenced ones though...

Presumably because they'll have to redesign the valve gear to get it behind them and at the right height.......
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on July 19, 2012, 12:25:00 PM
The last time I was in contact with Dave from Dapol he thought that the valanced versions might not be out until 2013.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 20, 2012, 03:07:32 PM
Well i know what will be out very soon, and only one will be made (and it will be mine i might add) is sir nigel gresley in br blue livery and black wheels...as per nymr spec...

Reason? I asked them to, and they agreed, comes ata bigger cost but it will be worth it, and this is for e nymr layout that is currently being planned out :)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 20, 2012, 03:25:32 PM
Sounds gooooooood :)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on July 20, 2012, 03:35:17 PM
Well i know what will be out very soon, and only one will be made (and it will be mine i might add) is sir nigel gresley in br blue livery and black wheels...as per nymr spec...

Reason? I asked them to, and they agreed, comes ata bigger cost but it will be worth it, and this is for e nymr layout that is currently being planned out :)
So Dapol agreed to do a one-off livery for you?

That will be worth remembering for future.  :angel:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 20, 2012, 03:44:46 PM
Yep, while bachmann said no so dapol win again...like i said though its not coming cheap
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on July 20, 2012, 04:05:39 PM
Are you willing/able to give an approximate indication?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 20, 2012, 04:09:25 PM
Lets see.....im going to sell my 4mt to try fund it, that should me around the halfway mark....so....its gonna cost me...£475?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on July 20, 2012, 05:28:11 PM
<cough, splutter>  :o :o :o

Why not get one that's close, and get it professionaly re-branded ???  Surely cheaper !!!

Mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 20, 2012, 05:31:49 PM
Plenty cheaper options, main thout was:-

1/warrenty is void if tampered with
2/perfect detailing
3/one off locomotive....plenty older gresleys but non as good as what mine will be!

And if i have any faults its repaired free of charge...so extra money to start with, but cheaper in the long run!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 20, 2012, 05:41:30 PM
Just for you, Pendy - Bittern :thumbsup:

Yikes - Bittern is the only steamie that I like. I suppose I could couple it to my FGW dynamic lines coaches and run a heritage train. Need to think about this.

I was thinking an A4 would look good in FGW Dynamic Lines.....

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 20, 2012, 06:50:57 PM
make sure you post pictures up! :P
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Pengi on July 20, 2012, 07:36:57 PM
Just for you, Pendy - Bittern :thumbsup:

Yikes - Bittern is the only steamie that I like. I suppose I could couple it to my FGW dynamic lines coaches and run a heritage train. Need to think about this.

I was thinking an A4 would look good in FGW Dynamic Lines.....

It would look lovely in FGW Dynamic Lines. My modelling skills are not up to it though and I can't afford £475 for a special commission.

The Blue Pullman will be my only purchase for some time - until I win big money on the lottery.

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on July 20, 2012, 09:08:42 PM
portland-docks could we see pictures of Sir Nigel when you get it. I love the loco and have been hauled by it on the NYMR a few times. Wow, a one off by Dapol, what a result  :thumbsup:

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 20, 2012, 09:37:49 PM
This is where Dapols customers service is years better then Graham Farish, graham would never ever do a one off special for someone. where as Dapol are like yeah lets do it! (for a price ofcourse) :P but they still seem to be happy to listen to customers
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 20, 2012, 10:05:23 PM
I still think it's spooky they managed to get 5 locos off our poll in their new catalogue so quickly :o :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mustermark on July 20, 2012, 10:08:31 PM
I still think it's spooky they managed to get 5 locos off our poll in their new catalogue so quickly :o :smiley-laughing:

And the skeptics said they wouldn't take any notice!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 20, 2012, 10:12:25 PM
they must have been in the pipe work already surely, as with the schools class they said the cad/cam was almost finished!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 20, 2012, 10:17:18 PM
they must have been in the pipe work already surely

That's even more scary :o :o
Where are Muldur & Scully when you need them?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 20, 2012, 10:19:05 PM
As soon as i get the locomotive in my hands i will get pictures up pronto! I will also do a viseo review for youtube from the moment its in its packing, to unwrapping the parcel, get it on some track and run it in, and put some stock behind it, hauling the teaks, mk1s then the pullmans...so you all get a good look at the one off special dapol is doing and i couldnt be more thankful to them.

Im just hoping we can get the ngauge nymr layout going and see it in its true environment!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on July 20, 2012, 10:19:41 PM
they must have been in the pipe work already surely, as with the schools class they said the cad/cam was almost finished!
Perhaps they have a mole on the  :NGF:  :smiley-laughing:

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on July 20, 2012, 10:25:55 PM
As soon as i get the locomotive in my hands i will get pictures up pronto! I will also do a viseo review for youtube from the moment its in its packing, to unwrapping the parcel, get it on some track and run it in, and put some stock behind it, hauling the teaks, mk1s then the pullmans...so you all get a good look at the one off special dapol is doing and i couldnt be more thankful to them.

Im just hoping we can get the ngauge nymr layout going and see it in its true environment!

I really hope you do get the NYMR layout going too  :thumbsup: You can even get the new Dapol Repton now  ;D

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on July 20, 2012, 10:26:14 PM
This is where Dapols customers service is years better then Graham Farish, graham would never ever do a one off special for someone. where as Dapol are like yeah lets do it! (for a price ofcourse) :P but they still seem to be happy to listen to customers

Seconded, although they've been so manic lately my attempt to get some collett bogies seems to have disappeared overboard.

My experience with Dapol was "we can do it this way, but that might be too many, but if you wait until we do a batch then we can do this instead"

My experience with Bachmann was "We don't sell components only,  we sell complete models" (which of course is cow poo because they do sell bogies in OO), and also a refusal to discuss doing anything with anyone not VAT registered. Basically a big company 'my way or the highway' attitude.

I'm actually quite impressed with how Dapol have come on. They've gone from toe dipping with the 14xx and 73, B sets with joke bogies and a first take on the voyager that needed rebuilding to make it run properly to a good solid diesel and electric chassis design, a superb 221 voyager instead of the 220, and excellent bodyshells and painting. They now seem to be addressing the steam problems they had, the guarantee and the electricals.

Hopefully they can keep the "can do" attitude as they grow.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 20, 2012, 10:38:21 PM
they must have been in the pipe work already surely, as with the schools class they said the cad/cam was almost finished!
Perhaps they have a mole on the  :NGF:  :smiley-laughing:

Marty

Hunt them! :P lol
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 20, 2012, 10:44:18 PM
couldnt agree more EP :P
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: longbridge on July 20, 2012, 10:54:40 PM
This is where Dapols customers service is years better then Graham Farish, graham would never ever do a one off special for someone. where as Dapol are like yeah lets do it! (for a price ofcourse) :P but they still seem to be happy to listen to customers

Seconded, although they've been so manic lately my attempt to get some collett bogies seems to have disappeared overboard.

My experience with Dapol was "we can do it this way, but that might be too many, but if you wait until we do a batch then we can do this instead"

My experience with Bachmann was "We don't sell components only,  we sell complete models" (which of course is cow poo because they do sell bogies in OO), and also a refusal to discuss doing anything with anyone not VAT registered. Basically a big company 'my way or the highway' attitude.

I'm actually quite impressed with how Dapol have come on. They've gone from toe dipping with the 14xx and 73, B sets with joke bogies and a first take on the voyager that needed rebuilding to make it run properly to a good solid diesel and electric chassis design, a superb 221 voyager instead of the 220, and excellent bodyshells and painting. They now seem to be addressing the steam problems they had, the guarantee and the electricals.

Hopefully they can keep the "can do" attitude as they grow.

Thats a very heartening point of view Alan, I like some of the Dapol models but have been slightly put off by what some consider to be poor QC, living downunder and buying topside can be a problem if you get a model that is kaput.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 22, 2012, 09:45:34 AM
As soon as i get the locomotive in my hands i will get pictures up pronto! I will also do a viseo review for youtube from the moment its in its packing, to unwrapping the parcel, get it on some track and run it in, and put some stock behind it, hauling the teaks, mk1s then the pullmans...so you all get a good look at the one off special dapol is doing and i couldnt be more thankful to them.

Im just hoping we can get the ngauge nymr layout going and see it in its true environment!

I really hope you do get the NYMR layout going too  :thumbsup: You can even get the new Dapol Repton now  ;D

Marty

Repton? Where?!  :o
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on July 22, 2012, 10:15:08 AM

Repton? Where?!  :o

Tardis effect- probably this time next year........    :evil:
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 22, 2012, 11:11:26 AM
Just been running my A4 on the layout to stretch her legs, and I've noticed the front wheels on the leading bogie are barely skimming the track and sometimes are running on air ???
This does not bode well for when I run her through points.
I just wondered if anyone else had experienced this and, if so, how did you correct it? TIA
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 22, 2012, 11:34:36 AM
Just loosen the screw holding the bogie on ever so slightly and you will probably find the bogey now sits on the track as it should, they sometimes over tighten the screws
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 22, 2012, 11:40:25 AM
Just loosen the screw holding the bogie on ever so slightly and you will probably find the bogey now sits on the track as it should, they sometimes over tighten the screws

Ta muchly P-D. I'll give that a try :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 22, 2012, 02:39:52 PM
Just loosen the screw holding the bogie on ever so slightly and you will probably find the bogey now sits on the track as it should, they sometimes over tighten the screws
I hate dapol for this! :p when you have to oil the internal parts first! Iv stripped so many screw heads using the correct gauge screw driver! Lol
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 22, 2012, 04:58:43 PM
Sadly this remedy did not work. I've tried every adjustment in between fully tight and the screw almost falling out and still the front wheels float. Any other clues, folks??
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: scruff on July 22, 2012, 06:20:32 PM
Hmmm.. could something be bent so it holds them upwards??

Cheers

Mark
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on July 22, 2012, 07:15:08 PM
 
Sadly this remedy did not work. I've tried every adjustment in between fully tight and the screw almost falling out and still the front wheels float. Any other clues, folks??

Get it sent to dcc supplies, tell them the front bogies sit off the track slightly causing constant derailment.my a3 the front of the tender sits off the track and im sending thatbto them as it constantly derails
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 22, 2012, 07:31:54 PM
must be something is bent?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on July 22, 2012, 07:45:02 PM
When running my three Gresleys on Gresby today and yesterday the two A3s performed like a dream but the A4 didn't.

I've had the loco part-dismantled as I carelessly lost the drive shaft inside trying to seat it- dyspraxia rules KO!   I'm not entirely sure I've refitted the bogie correctly but it is riding up a little causing derailments on points.  If it has to go back for tweaking it is my expense, sadly, as before losing the driveshaft it was running perfectly and has thus been renumbered to 60010.

As an aside I unseated then drive shaft when I found I'd picked it up by the loco only- again hands not always doing what my brain has told them to do....

Note I'm not blaming the loco for my being "medically clumsy".....

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: longbridge on July 22, 2012, 09:40:41 PM
Sadly this remedy did not work. I've tried every adjustment in between fully tight and the screw almost falling out and still the front wheels float. Any other clues, folks??

This sounds like a problem we used to have with Hornby loco front bogies, my mate came up with a fix which was a thin shim of lead glued to the top of the bogie.

Shouldn't have to mess around with things like that though.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on July 24, 2012, 10:16:12 AM

This sounds like a problem we used to have with Hornby loco front bogies, my mate came up with a fix which was a thin shim of lead glued to the top of the bogie.

Shouldn't have to mess around with things like that though.

Annoying thing is mine was running problem-free before I dismantled it!

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 24, 2012, 10:25:08 AM
How odd there's not much that when putting back together would cause that!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Pengi on July 24, 2012, 10:38:14 AM
Although I'm not a steam fan, I have been giving some consideration to buying a Bittern and I want to be assured that the locomotive will run straight from the box and require no tinkering (apart from oiling).

I've been reading this thread and it is mostly a tale of woe, either the loco doesn't look right or it doesn't work.

Hopefully there are more of you that are happy with the A4 and find it runs reliably.

The impression I get is that the Farish is not as powerful or well detailed as the Dapol but likely to be a smoother runner.


Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Mike J on July 24, 2012, 01:00:21 PM
Although I'm not a steam fan, I have been giving some consideration to buying a Bittern and I want to be assured that the locomotive will run straight from the box and require no tinkering (apart from oiling).

I've been reading this thread and it is mostly a tale of woe, either the loco doesn't look right or it doesn't work.

Hopefully there are more of you that are happy with the A4 and find it runs reliably.

The impression I get is that the Farish is not as powerful or well detailed as the Dapol but likely to be a smoother runner.

The Dapol model is superior in the looks department, and if you get a good one, is a powerful and relatively quiet runner, so don't be put off by the comments on this thread. Although the comments are all valid, remember that not all N gauge modellers contribute to this forum, and many who are happy with their model will probably form the silent majority, even if they do post here. Also, the new Dapol guarantee will cover any problems you may have. Take the plunge and get your Bittern, I'm sure you won't regret it. Good luck!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on July 24, 2012, 03:09:30 PM
Although I'm not a steam fan, I have been giving some consideration to buying a Bittern and I want to be assured that the locomotive will run straight from the box and require no tinkering (apart from oiling).

I've been reading this thread and it is mostly a tale of woe, either the loco doesn't look right or it doesn't work.

Hopefully there are more of you that are happy with the A4 and find it runs reliably.

The impression I get is that the Farish is not as powerful or well detailed as the Dapol but likely to be a smoother runner.

i may be nhaving problems at the moment with my first A4 on points, but I'm still getting a Bittern (and more A3s) to go with it!

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: rusticged on July 24, 2012, 04:32:55 PM
 :wave: :wave: :thumbsup:

Hi Pendy

The 2 x A4s that I talked about near the beginning of this thread are still running beautifully. Quiet and smooth with plenty of haulage power. You can take it as a vote of confidence as I have the Dapol Special A4 on order and 2 x A3s are on their way.
Take the plunge - I don't think you will regret it.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on July 25, 2012, 10:40:23 PM
Having stripped a Dapol A4 right down to component parts (including wheels off axles :o ) I did feel a bit concerned about the front bogie design - there is pretty much zero vertical travel on it - the slop in the wheelset slots is about all you have.

I could see this causing trouble on lumpy track or if you got a 'Friday afternoon' job and something isn't quite perfect with it.

Having said that, it does ensure the bogie wheels are in good contact with the track on the ones I've seen - useful for the extra pickups that I found were really needed  ::).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 26, 2012, 01:28:00 AM
:wave: :wave: :thumbsup:

Hi Pendy

The 2 x A4s that I talked about near the beginning of this thread are still running beautifully. Quiet and smooth with plenty of haulage power. You can take it as a vote of confidence as I have the Dapol Special A4 on order and 2 x A3s are on their way.
Take the plunge - I don't think you will regret it.

Same here my silver fox is running better then ever  ;D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 26, 2012, 05:48:20 PM
Just to show what the front bogie issue is, here is Wild Swan proceeding anti clockwise round a 15" radius curve. Hopefully you can see she's 'cocking her leg' on the curve i.e. the very front LH wheel rises off the track.

(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j454/nobbynewport/Kimbolted/A4frontbogie003.jpg)

However, when traversing the same bend clockwise, the very front RH wheel sits solidly on the track.

(http://i1086.photobucket.com/albums/j454/nobbynewport/Kimbolted/A4frontbogie004.jpg)

The only conclusion I can draw is the front bogie is somehow twisted ???
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: K-N-Gauge on July 26, 2012, 05:51:58 PM
Never seen anything like that!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on July 26, 2012, 06:37:53 PM
Can you show images of the other side ?

Might help people suggest things, seeing both sides ?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on July 26, 2012, 06:51:14 PM
Is the coupling fouling the front buffer?

Look like it from first snap.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 26, 2012, 08:05:39 PM
Can you show images of the other side ?

Might help people suggest things, seeing both sides ?

Sorry Mike - I can't get photos from the other side of the layout, which is why I snapped it going round the same bend in both directions to show the effect.

Alan - you may have got it! I'll have a check tomorrow and, if that's the case, the solution is simples - remove it.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on July 27, 2012, 04:15:39 PM
Thanks to all who made suggestions, but DavieB came up with the answer (I think ???)
Please see the surgery section for.....

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6732.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6732.0)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on August 15, 2012, 08:21:04 PM
Thanks to all who made suggestions, but DavieB came up with the answer (I think ???)
Please see the surgery section for.....

[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6732.0[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6732.0[/url])


I adjusted my A4 in line with the instructions in this post- I had part-dismantled it to get a "lost" drive shaft back out and failed to reassemble it correctly.

Video shows it starting 28 coaches on Gresby this afternoon. 

http://youtu.be/4Vw9iltwr70 (http://youtu.be/4Vw9iltwr70)
 
The sudden stop at the end is a coupling parting company on one of the coaches.   I did get one of mt A3s to start 33 but I couldn't keep the coaches on the track (they pulled over on the 12" radius...)

for the record the rake is made up of (not in order)
3 Dapol Collets
12 Gresleys (2 blood + custard, 10 maroon)
one Gresley rebuilt with brass sides
6 Farish Staniers
one Farish Hadrian Bar
5 Old farish Pullmans

All the very best
Les


Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on August 15, 2012, 08:53:33 PM
Thanks to all who made suggestions, but DavieB came up with the answer (I think ???)
Please see the surgery section for.....

[url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6732.0[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=6732.0[/url])


I adjusted my A4 in line with the instructions in this post- I had part-dismantled it to get a "lost" drive shaft back out and failed to reassemble it correctly.

Video shows it starting 28 coaches on Gresby this afternoon. 

[url]http://youtu.be/4Vw9iltwr70[/url] ([url]http://youtu.be/4Vw9iltwr70[/url])
 
The sudden stop at the end is a coupling parting company on one of the coaches.   I did get one of mt A3s to start 33 but I couldn't keep the coaches on the track (they pulled over on the 12" radius...)

for the record the rake is made up of (not in order)
3 Dapol Collets
12 Gresleys (2 blood + custard, 10 maroon)
one Gresley rebuilt with brass sides
6 Farish Staniers
one Farish Hadrian Bar
5 Old farish Pullmans

All the very best
Les


Hi Les

Forgive me (And I may be the ONLY one who thinks this) but your "tests" in this and the other threads of things that are Dapol steam to prove their haulage capability is becoming a tad repetitive and one sided.

For balance: -

I have in the past tested my Union Mills tender driven locos to similar feats of haulage the only limitation being that I ran out of track on my oval (last coach about an inch from the loco (26 coaches) rather than the loco running out of "grunt".

My Farish B1 61139 took 22 coaches in out of the box condition (no extra traction tyred wheels) with no slipping.

You will also probably have seen Kevin of Oz's clip on the N Gauge "Yahoo" Group of his new BachFarish WD pulling an incredibly long train of minerals (and up a gradienet too) - I lost count of how many wagons! Now believing I knew the capabilities/limitations of mine that WAS an eye-opener!  :o

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on August 15, 2012, 08:58:04 PM
Glad the forum has helped you to get your A4 sorted, Les :thumbsup:

You don't believe in letting your locos take it easy :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on August 16, 2012, 04:11:43 AM
Greeetings.

I don't claim the haulage tests are anything but one-sided, and never have.   They were originally started as a counter to a claim that the B17 could only manage one coach up a 1 in 60.  Passenger haulage was out of interest as I'd got the Britannia when new hauling 24 coaches and previously had a Union Mills D20 hauling 28 on Moorcock.

For completeness-
The 67 wagons weren't taken by the random sample B1 or any of the 9Fs other than Evening star- derailment issues, though the weathered 9F and the B1 would start the rake.
The 28 coaches was also takem by Lemberg (A3) and by William Shakespeare (Britannia).  No other locos were tried.

I deliberately didn't try out my modern Bachfar locos as I'm not sure if I can get replacement traction tyres if I kill any off- the Dapol ones are provided.

In regular service none of my locos will need to haul more than 10 coaches or about 40 wagons as neither Hawthorn Dene nor Rise Park will be big enough.  That puts regular trains well within the capacity of the locos.

I am very grateful for being pointed in the direction of the A4 (and, by extension, A3) bogie solution- I had visions of having to send the A4 to DCC Supplies for sorting and having to pay for it as it was my own hamfistedness that caused the problem in the first place. 

Finally, I wonder how many of the issues we have with models of all makes are caused by vibration in transit loosening or moving parts.  I remember having a suitcase vibrated off a padded upper bunk on a cross-channel ferry turning round at Caen.  Models sent by sea get about 6000 miles of engine vibration in transit.  This can't be good for them.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on August 16, 2012, 09:07:48 AM
Finally, I wonder how many of the issues we have with models of all makes are caused by vibration in transit loosening or moving parts.  I remember having a suitcase vibrated off a padded upper bunk on a cross-channel ferry turning round at Caen.  Models sent by sea get about 6000 miles of engine vibration in transit.  This can't be good for them.

This is no excuse for any manufacturer though - if that's what they experience then the packing should be designed to cope.

In all honesty, I think it is these days anyway.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 16, 2012, 12:22:08 PM
This is no excuse for any manufacturer though - if that's what they experience then the packing should be designed to cope.

In all honesty, I think it is these days anyway.

It's actually a really hard problem (I used to deal with someone who managed PC systems on freighters and they had to tighten all the screws and push all the chips and cards down each port stop.

It's one of the reasons for the thick transit grease on some models which is designed to be dissolved by the first oiling.

Should get better in time - the rail links across Asia and into Europe are improving rapidly and in time a lot of this stuff will go by train.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on August 16, 2012, 09:55:07 PM
Greeetings.

I don't claim the haulage tests are anything but one-sided, and never have.   They were originally started as a counter to a claim that the B17 could only manage one coach up a 1 in 60.  Passenger haulage was out of interest as I'd got the Britannia when new hauling 24 coaches and previously had a Union Mills D20 hauling 28 on Moorcock.

I deliberately didn't try out my modern Bachfar locos as I'm not sure if I can get replacement traction tyres if I kill any off- the Dapol ones are provided.

Finally, I wonder how many of the issues we have with models of all makes are caused by vibration in transit loosening or moving parts.  I remember having a suitcase vibrated off a padded upper bunk on a cross-channel ferry turning round at Caen.  Models sent by sea get about 6000 miles of engine vibration in transit.  This can't be good for them.

All the very best
Les

Hi Les

Digressing from the topic slightly, it is true you don't get spare tyres with the Farish B1 but you do get another complete tyred tender wheelset in the box. I have had no cause to add it as the single tyred axle it comes fitted with has always proved more than sufficient, it is therefore a very convenient spare. The irony is though that still none of my BachFarish tender locos has yet shed a single tyre!

I have no doubt that the long transit will cause some problems, but I would like to believe that packaging is designed by the various manufacturers with the journey in mind.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on August 17, 2012, 08:31:39 AM
Hi Les

Digressing from the topic slightly, it is true you don't get spare tyres with the Farish B1 but you do get another complete tyred tender wheelset in the box. I have had no cause to add it as the single tyred axle it comes fitted with has always proved more than sufficient, it is therefore a very convenient spare. The irony is though that still none of my BachFarish tender locos has yet shed a single tyre!

I have no doubt that the long transit will cause some problems, but I would like to believe that packaging is designed by the various manufacturers with the journey in mind.

Regards

Roy

They definitely do pack them with transit in mind- just compare the packaging on the A4 or the Farish WD- both superbly packaged- with what was common ten years ago.  However even this isn't entirely shock proof.  The A4 was supposed to be factory fitted with the magnetic buckeyes but even in this packaging it was found that when dropped there was a chance the buckeyes wouldn't survive intact.  Hence their arrival in a separate bag.

Digressing onto Farish traction tyres the spare tender wheelsets are untyred if the tender already has 4 tyres fitted, as I found out when my Black 5 shed a tyre.  I've another traction tyre in the stockbox so either the Jubilee or the 4MT has also lost one.   As to replacements, I'm going to let them get out of warranty then use Bullfrog Snot.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on August 17, 2012, 12:17:39 PM
Digressing onto Farish traction tyres the spare tender wheelsets are untyred if the tender already has 4 tyres fitted, as I found out when my Black 5 shed a tyre.  I've another traction tyre in the stockbox so either the Jubilee or the 4MT has also lost one.   As to replacements, I'm going to let them get out of warranty then use Bullfrog Snot.

There's something fundamentally wrong that yours keep shedding tyres. I've got 6 Jubs, 3 Scots, 2 B1s, 2 A1s and none of them have ever shed a tyre under any circumstance. Even during haulage tests of my Jubs, towing 35 coaches.

Plus spares are readily available for the LMS locos and no doubt will be made available for the others in due course.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on August 17, 2012, 02:43:02 PM
Similarly, none of my 15 Farish tender drive locos have ever shed a tyre, and most of them are impeccable runners.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on August 17, 2012, 06:59:26 PM

There's something fundamentally wrong that yours keep shedding tyres. I've got 6 Jubs, 3 Scots, 2 B1s, 2 A1s and none of them have ever shed a tyre under any circumstance. Even during haulage tests of my Jubs, towing 35 coaches.

Plus spares are readily available for the LMS locos and no doubt will be made available for the others in due course.

Cheers,
Alan
I didn't say "keep" shedding.  I've lost a total of two- with neither loco pushed by hand- ever.   Both locos have exhibition use and therefore generated comparatively high mileage.  However, (to return more to topic),  as with Dapol A4s, you will find modellers with no faults and those with many.  I haven't enquired about spares recently- when my Black 5 shed its tyre I phoned Barwell about purchasing spares to be told that replacement tyres weren't available. 

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on August 17, 2012, 07:33:29 PM
The traction tyres are available in packs at many Farish suppliers. The Jubilee ones are ok for the Black 5s.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on August 17, 2012, 10:13:01 PM
Hi Les

I am a little confused. If you have lost "only" two, I do not really understand why you have made such a point about Farish locos shedding tyres?

Personally I know plenty of people with Farish tender driven locos, and hardly any have reported loss of tyres being any big problem at all.

If you want some Jub ones for your Black Five try Hattons: -

http://www.ehattons.com/23888/Graham_Farish_379_420_Jubilee_tender_traction_tyres_Pack_of_10/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/23888/Graham_Farish_379_420_Jubilee_tender_traction_tyres_Pack_of_10/StockDetail.aspx)

On the general issue of failures, for sure it is highly unlikely that any manufacturer be it Kato, Dapol or whoever will be able to produce a whole batch of models bereft of any failures whatsoever without 100% testing (not going to happen).

Some models like the Dapol B1, A4 do appear to have a fair number of issues reported, but inexplicably then their A3 with a very similar chassis to the A4 has had barely a peep of a problem by comparison. Personally I think the A3 is Dapol's best steam loco to date by a clear country mile.

Then we have the BachFarish WD reported elsewhere. There are a goodly number out there by now (even some the other side of the world now) and yet the forums remain virtually silent as regards any adverse issues.

I would like to think that matters will continue to improve as manufacturers "design out" potential causes of failure, as I see it the Farish WD and hopfully Standard Five which is of the same design are very positive steps in that direction.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on August 18, 2012, 01:07:09 AM
I am a little confused. If you have lost "only" two, I do not really understand why you have made such a point about Farish locos shedding tyres?

I'd have to agree with Roy here - I didn't realise it was so few given how often the point's been made on many different lists.

By comparison I've just received another Dapol A4 and A3 from someone requesting their overhaul and general improvement if possible. Both are dogs of runners - the A3 completely died after 20 minutes  ??? - the cause was a partly missing motor brush spring  :o  :confused1: (only half of it there, so as the brush started to bed in it lost electrical contact with the commutator completely!). Both two have terribly poor pickup, noisy.

That's 5 I've seen now - 2 A3s, 3 A4s and all have been identically bad in terms of pickup, which confirms to me it's a serious design flaw.

So I wouldn't agree that the A3 has had less problems - I've seen all the same issues with both A3 and A4. The chassis is basically mechanically identical.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on August 18, 2012, 09:59:47 AM
Hi Alan

As regards the A3, I appreciate the chassis are all but identical with the A4. My comments about lack of failures was somewhat unscientific and base only on a relatively low volume of people feeding back issues on this Fourm and others. That said I do note that since I made the initial observation further issues have been reported on the A3 thread here.

As regards the tender pickup design, I cannot really understand why Dapol did not continue to use very effective pinpoint axle pickups on three of the four and allow the fourth (rearmost) to float laterally to acommodate sharp curves. Maybe they looked at the concept of bushed axle current collection (which depends on a far greater contact area to be reliable?) applied that to the system used and found it to work ok for them?

My locos still remain free of the problems you have reported thus far, after a fair number of hours of running in the case of one of my Lembergs and the A4 "Wild Swan" too - no problems with stalling or surging. If it is an inherent design problem as you suggest, the only reason I can think for that is that my track is reasonably well laid and what pointwork there is pretty undemanding..

That said I rarely clean the track :confused1:

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on August 26, 2012, 12:36:42 AM
Picked up my new Dapol Modellbahn Union A4 Mallard from the Post Office today. Chipped and oiled her and ran her in for half an hour each way at low speed. I must say that she ran excellent straight from the word go and slow speed control is superb! I have now got my grandson to bed so have got a chance to do some more playing testing. She makes light work of my 1 in 30 incline with five Gresley teaks (layout size limits length of trains). She negotiates all pointwork and curves faultlessly but is still a little bit noisy. I expect this to improve with running. I think she looks beautiful and so far is running very well  :)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/thumb_1883.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=1883)

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on August 26, 2012, 02:33:53 PM
Looks lovely, Marty :thumbsup: Bet you're well pleased :D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Ollie3440 on August 26, 2012, 03:24:42 PM
Having seen the image above i couldn't help but think of this..

Lets see.....im going to sell my 4mt to try fund it, that should me around the halfway mark....so....its gonna cost me...£475?

Surely it'd be a hell of alot cheaper to buy one of these limited edition mallards and either re-number it yourself or get someone to do it for you?
Also what if in the near future Dapol want to produce Gresley in it's br blue livery? Your model will drastically be reduced in value as it won't be unique.

Oh and to drag up an old issue about the silver link in a bookset, at work we have never been sent or heard anything of the sort from Dapol (and we're in contact with them most days!)

Ollie
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Stevie DC on August 26, 2012, 03:31:18 PM
Oh and to drag up an old issue about the silver link in a bookset, at work we have never been sent or heard anything of the sort from Dapol (and we're in contact with them most days!)

I think (and I might be wrong) that Silver Link is planned to be released only to members of Dapol's Club. It would be great if SL is to be released on general sale (with valances, hint hint!  ;) )
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Ollie3440 on August 26, 2012, 03:35:29 PM
Oh and to drag up an old issue about the silver link in a bookset, at work we have never been sent or heard anything of the sort from Dapol (and we're in contact with them most days!)

I think (and I might be wrong) that Silver Link is planned to be released only to members of Dapol's Club. It would be great if SL is to be released on general sale (with valances, hint hint!  ;) )

You are correct that it is a Club model only.

Ollie
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Donkey on August 26, 2012, 06:25:13 PM
Looks lovely, Marty :thumbsup: Bet you're well pleased :D
Thrilled to bits with her thanks  :D Wonder if I could talk SWMBO into a nice BR green Bittern or Dwight D Eisenhower  :hmmm:

Marty
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on August 29, 2012, 03:59:01 PM
Im defo getting one of those, and im going to get tmc at beck hole to rename and renumber it for a cost of £40, then thats our flagship loco. Next after that is eric treacy and the green knight
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: 5690 on September 08, 2012, 01:02:39 PM
I'm after getting Wild Swan but everywhere is out of stock - anybody know if more are on the way?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 08, 2012, 02:55:00 PM
I'm after getting Wild Swan but everywhere is out of stock - anybody know if more are on the way?

Despite everything that has been said here and elsewhere punters have voted with their wallets.  Next late crest double-chimneyed one is Sir Charles Newton.  No idea when it will arrive- the second pair of BR green A3s have been here the best part of a month.....

Good news is that plates are readily available for all A4s and the Dapol A4 isn't difficult to renumber- the numbers are about the same level of difficulty to remove as the BachFar (I had one of each on the workbench at the same time doing them....)

All the very best
Les

Before anyone who knows me says "but you sold all your Farish A4s" I did, then got this one for £8 with only the tender coupling missing- it is for weathering demonstrations.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on September 08, 2012, 03:00:18 PM
Good news is that plates are readily available for all A4s and the Dapol A4 isn't difficult to renumber- the numbers are about the same level of difficulty to remove as the BachFar (I had one of each on the workbench at the same time doing them....)

You need to be careful with the plates on the Dapol model - they can take some of the base paint off when removing. Fortunately on the one I've renumbered the new plates covered this. I had to touch up where the silver fox used to be though as Quicksilver didn't have any embellishments....

Regards,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on September 08, 2012, 03:06:58 PM
Despite everything that has been said here and elsewhere punters have voted with their wallets.

Equally a lot have models have gone back as defective and more have been rebuilt, and repaired (I've done 5 A3s and A4s now with another two awaiting assessment and rebuild when I get time).

Plus Dapol's production runs are smaller? I'm sure it was said they only do 250 of any model now, as compared Bachfar's 1008....

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 08, 2012, 06:19:14 PM
Where do you get the nameplates from?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on September 08, 2012, 09:08:40 PM
I'm after getting Wild Swan but everywhere is out of stock - anybody know if more are on the way?
Saw plenty @ TINGS today ...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 11, 2012, 01:14:38 PM
Where do you get the nameplates from?

nameplates from Modelmaster Jackson Evans- they have a website or N Gauge Society members can get them cheaper through the Society shop.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 11, 2012, 01:17:58 PM
I'm after getting Wild Swan but everywhere is out of stock - anybody know if more are on the way?
Saw plenty @ TINGS today ...

I could't find one on Sunday unless Dapol had some.  Quite a few blue ones about plus Modellbahn Union's special.   I was looking out or another late BR A4 or a double-chimney A3- the latter were more expensive than Hattons so I didn't bother.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on October 17, 2012, 11:08:07 PM
I recently got hold of Mallard from Hereford Model Centre after a fairly positive experience with Silver Link. It is very similar to Silver Link in its running characteristics; both being noisy to start with and quietening down. I have made attempts at deadening the sound with some foam and masking tape in the tenders. I find both of these locos run very warm but they both seem to run without any other issues.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on November 30, 2012, 11:29:22 AM
Sounds good, Ged, but will they do the coaches to go with it?
[url]http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml[/url] ([url]http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml[/url])

To the very best of my knowledge, no-one has done the articulated sets in N - but (after some research) I've found a very nice kit of all 7 (or 8, for the 1938 set) coached in OO, and am about to start buying them (slowly !) in articulated sets.  If people are interested I am happy to ask the designer (it turned out I already knew him but hadn't twigged he had done this !) if he would be willing to scale down to N & what he estimates the cost to be ? 

Either post here or PM me ... 

Mike

Lany news on these coaches?

Paul
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on November 30, 2012, 11:32:57 AM
He's been busy @ work, so not yet ...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on November 30, 2012, 11:35:40 AM
Ah righty well just keep us posted :)

Cheers mike
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roman Kochnowski on March 20, 2013, 06:42:51 PM
I want to  buy a A4 "Silver Fox".Could you tell me which coaches pull this locomotive today as a museum engine?
regards,
Roman
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: PLD on March 20, 2013, 08:26:02 PM
I want to  buy a A4 "Silver Fox".Could you tell me which coaches pull this locomotive today as a museum engine?
regards,
Roman

'Silver Fox' was not preserved so does not run 'today'...

(and in UK practice, usually the loco pulls the coaches rather than the coaches pulling the loco!)  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on March 20, 2013, 08:31:32 PM
I'm not sure it's UK practice to mock the English of other nations :hmmm: >:D
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roman Kochnowski on March 20, 2013, 08:44:35 PM
Sorry,my mistake.I mean loco pulls the coaches of course...And others left A 4?
regards,
Roman
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 20, 2013, 08:46:11 PM
I want to  buy a A4 "Silver Fox".Could you tell me which coaches pull this locomotive today as a museum engine?
regards,
Roman

'Silver Fox' was not preserved so does not run 'today'...

(and in UK practice, usually the loco pulls the coaches rather than the coaches pulling the loco!)  :hmmm:

I think that is bad practice to make that comment. The gentleman has translated this as he would say it. He is correct in how he has expressed himself. Sadly you have shown a degree of intolerance which is unwarranted in this forum.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 20, 2013, 08:47:09 PM
Sorry,my mistake.I mean loco pulls the coaches of course...And others left A 4?
regards,
Roman

Do not worry Roman. Many of us understood what you were saying.

Regards

Brian
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 20, 2013, 08:52:26 PM
Sorry,my mistake.I mean loco pulls the coaches of course...And others left A 4?
regards,
Roman

Yes, A4 Union of South Africa 60009 for example.

If you Google you can see the type of coach this train uses today.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=preserved+A4&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=zLR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0CBKUf2TO87SPLnFgNAM&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=1029#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6g6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=preserved+A4+60009+tour&oq=preserved+A4+60009+tour&gs_l=img.3...5298.5298.2.5633.1.1.0.0.0.0.38.38.1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.yqsI1fwzyew&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZWU&fp=b6885869ab8e0b14&biw=1600&bih=1029 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=preserved+A4&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=zLR&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=0CBKUf2TO87SPLnFgNAM&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=1029#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6g6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=preserved+A4+60009+tour&oq=preserved+A4+60009+tour&gs_l=img.3...5298.5298.2.5633.1.1.0.0.0.0.38.38.1.1.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.yqsI1fwzyew&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZWU&fp=b6885869ab8e0b14&biw=1600&bih=1029)

In 1930's they pulled this type...

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gresley+coach&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Ej6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=cyFKUfqUDcabO-DBgdgN&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=1029#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Gj6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=gresley+teak+coach&oq=gresley+teak+coach&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24.4492.5595.0.5898.5.5.0.0.0.0.43.187.5.5.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.zJO0CRH-wA4&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZWU&fp=98027f9fd31b3d9c&biw=1600&bih=1029 (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=gresley+coach&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Ej6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=cyFKUfqUDcabO-DBgdgN&ved=0CAoQ_AUoAQ&biw=1600&bih=1029#hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=Gj6&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aunofficial&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=gresley+teak+coach&oq=gresley+teak+coach&gs_l=img.3..0j0i24.4492.5595.0.5898.5.5.0.0.0.0.43.187.5.5.0...0.0...1c.1.7.img.zJO0CRH-wA4&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.44158598,d.ZWU&fp=98027f9fd31b3d9c&biw=1600&bih=1029)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Paul B on March 20, 2013, 08:53:23 PM
I want to  buy a A4 "Silver Fox".Could you tell me which coaches pull this locomotive today as a museum engine?
regards,
Roman
Cześć Roman!

If it is this A4 Silver Fox you are after - https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ui6aKvqcjxg/URKNkdMnwvI/AAAAAAAAAaQ/v9WXcoMdOG0/s1280/ND128B-03.jpg

then some British Rail mark 1 coaches would be right for a museum (or preserved) locomotive - and would also look OK for a loco during British Rail period too! You may also see some Gresley coaches, but finished in British Rail colours. The Mark 1 coaches are available from Graham Farish, and the Gresley coaches from Dapol.

May I ask - which part of Poland do you live in? I have not been to Poland for a few years now, but was last in Poznan for a Polish friends wedding - a great privilege for me to be the only Englishman there!

It is also very good to see a Pole interested in British railways - and this comes from a British man who is interested in Polish railways!  :) I hope that you have a very good time with your modelling and it would be nice to be able to meet some day, either in England or Poland!

Do zobaczenia!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on March 20, 2013, 08:53:44 PM
Sorry,my mistake.I mean loco pulls the coaches of course...And others left A 4?
regards,
Roman

Roman - I believe there is a week at the National Rail Museum in York later this year when the 5 (I think it's 5) surviving A4's will be on display. I am sure someone with more knowledge than me will come up with the correct answer :)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: PLD on March 20, 2013, 09:12:54 PM
Sorry chaps, failed attempt at humour (hence the smilie) obviously lost in translation...

There are 6 remaining A4s

'Mallard' (on display at the NRM in York)
'Sir Nigel Gresley' (Based at the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, but often seen on the main line)
'Dwight D Eisenhower' (preserved in the USA but currently in the UK on loan and currently on display in the NRM York)
'Dominion of Canada' (preserved in Canada but currently in the UK on loan and currently undergoing cosmetic restoration at 'Locomotion' museum in Shildon)
'Union of South Africa' (privately owned and a regular on the main line. Has also run with the name 'Osprey')
'Bittern' (privately owned and a regular on the main line. Has also run with the name 'Dominion of New Zealand')

BR mk 1 coaches are the most common today both for mainline tours and on preserved lines..
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 20, 2013, 09:16:04 PM
http://www.nrm.org.uk/PlanaVisit/Events/mallard75.aspx (http://www.nrm.org.uk/PlanaVisit/Events/mallard75.aspx)


Link to the special event at York
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on March 20, 2013, 09:18:52 PM
Thanks for finding that link (Top Link :D)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: N Scale A4 4468 on April 25, 2013, 07:54:10 PM
I have two of these A4's and they lovely models but one thing that annoys me with them is you have to strip the chassis down to oil them, which seems mad when there are plenty of locos off the shelf you can buy where you don't have to that!

I am defiantly going to the Mallard 75 at York.

On the subject of suitable carriages. If you are planning to buy a garter blue one most of the time they ran teaks. Dapol sell them and I have a few and they are lovely models.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MikeDunn on April 25, 2013, 08:43:39 PM
Especially if you fit the yellow light bars  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on April 26, 2013, 07:00:18 PM
I have two of these A4's and they lovely models but one thing that annoys me with them is you have to strip the chassis down to oil them, which seems mad when there are plenty of locos off the shelf you can buy where you don't have to that!


Use a long needle to apply oil direct to the top of the worm- they sell oil packs with one that is long enough.  Put the needle in down where the driveshaft goes in.  It should get enough oil into the places you need to apply it to.

Hope this helps.

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on April 26, 2013, 10:01:49 PM
The Gaugemaster GM619 has a decent length needle applicator. Comes complete with oil :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on February 16, 2014, 03:55:16 PM
Well its the great goodbye so why not bump the a4 thread!

I had a great two days which has fueld my love for steam and a4s!

So that means one thing...i need more a4s!
I currently have gresley in br blue, and silverlink and mallard in lner blue. Im busy working on trying to valance mallard which i may give to a friend as he says he can do it no problem.


Any news on dapol trying to valance these?

But in the mean time i was only going to buy another lner blue one and redo to bittern, then a br green for union of south africa, but i feel like i need to buy dwight in br green and dominion in lner blue now...cant ever save money!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on February 16, 2014, 08:40:07 PM
I feel an N gauge 'Great Gathering' coming on ;)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on February 16, 2014, 08:42:46 PM
I feel an N gauge 'Great Gathering' coming on ;)

I will if i can valance 3 a4s lol

And i i can they may be available for great gatherings elsewhere ;)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Guy on February 16, 2014, 10:14:29 PM
I have two of these A4's and they lovely models but one thing that annoys me with them is you have to strip the chassis down to oil them, which seems mad when there are plenty of locos off the shelf you can buy where you don't have to that!


Use a long needle to apply oil direct to the top of the worm- they sell oil packs with one that is long enough.  Put the needle in down where the driveshaft goes in.  It should get enough oil into the places you need to apply it to.

Hope this helps.

Les

The Gaugemaster GM619 has a decent length needle applicator. Comes complete with oil :thumbsup:

Thanks to both of you for this simple but effective tip. I admit I had been more than a little concerned about getting "inside" my newish Britannia but now have a solution which will alleviate this requirement.
 :claphappy:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on February 18, 2014, 08:28:59 PM
when does bittern and dwight come out by the way?

and both are in br green arent they?

i also had word from dapol that the valanced A4s are still in development and no date is set on them
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: simonprelude on February 19, 2014, 05:48:45 PM
I'd pay handsomely for a factory valenced Mallard in NRM spec, so it could even be a dummy.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: twaarrd on April 03, 2014, 12:13:10 PM
I currently have gresley in br blue, and silverlink and mallard in lner blue.

Portland, how did you get Gresley in BR Blue or did you rename another loco?

Being a Yorkshire lad, I'd love to get Gresley in its current preserved state on NYMR

t
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on April 03, 2014, 12:43:10 PM
I currently have gresley in br blue, and silverlink and mallard in lner blue.

Portland, how did you get Gresley in BR Blue or did you rename another loco?

Being a Yorkshire lad, I'd love to get Gresley in its current preserved state on NYMR

t

Hi twaarrd

My gresley was originally a br blue mallard by modelbahn. I then took it to tmc in beck hole, north yorkshire to rename and renumber and it looks stunning.

Not sure if you can still get br blue mallard but if you can thats your best shout.

Iv been lucky to work on the engine aswell as fire it down the moors, shes noisy when she shes pressure up, she doesnt let it down very quick lol
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: twaarrd on April 03, 2014, 01:16:28 PM
Thanks for the info. Just had a quick search and saw a picture of one earlier in this thread. Nice looking loco in the darker blue.

I'll have to prepare the wallet in case I see one on ebay.

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: mickster04 on September 25, 2014, 08:32:16 AM
I am on my second commonwealth of Australia and it still doesn't like my second radius. always derails at least the front pony.... if anyone discovers how to fix this, let me know :(
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on September 25, 2014, 09:02:49 AM
I am on my second commonwealth of Australia and it still doesn't like my second radius. always derails at least the front pony.... if anyone discovers how to fix this, let me know :(

Check that the bogie is sitting correctly - it has a bar above the bogie that locates centrally onto a peg on the front of the loco. If this gets displaced to one side or the other derailments can be the result.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: mickster04 on September 25, 2014, 09:41:13 AM
I tightened a couple of screws. seems to have had a an effect!! the driving wheels still have problems with the second radius curves, but that might be a different issue. I will keep working on it...  seems like a common issue with these models though.... such a shame that there is persistant issues with a model like this...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Bigric on September 25, 2014, 10:49:03 AM
.........and a problem with lots of other Dapol big steamers in my experience , not just the A4s . Just seems to be a bit of a lottery - I'm still persevering with my William Whitelaw in British Railways garter blue . But it LOOKS gorgeous - which makes it irresistible for me I'm afraid (unfortunately) . Best of look , Ric
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 28, 2014, 09:14:22 PM
I've just got Bittern No.2 back from DCC Supplies after an unplanned service.  Bittern No.1 continues to perform faultlessly (except see below).

The second Bittern I bought secondhand (often a mistake) though the owner reckoned it was little used.  However, it had been over-oiled and some had spread to the traction tyres which had become loose as a result.  DCC Supplies have had to degrease the wheelset before replacing the tyres.  It now runs OK on analogue so can go in the queue for renumbering and chipping.   It is to become 60018 SPARROW HAWK and be weathered to full Gateshead grot.

Meanwhile I had an interesting happening at Grantham Show- I started with three serviceable A4s and ended up with one.  60030 GOLDEN FLEECE ran like a dream all weekend but 60019 BITTERN and 60010 DOMINION OF CANADA both stopped apparently dead.  When I got home I found that both their Bachmann chips had lost the plot as far as the loco address was concerned.  Not the first one of those failures, that was a Farish A1.  A bit of an issue when I haven't a spare power socket to take a progamming track with me to a show. 

Both A4s have fully recovered and are ready for their next show outing at Sileby in February.  However, they may be fitted with better chips before then if I can spare the cash.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 28, 2014, 09:30:22 PM
iv had the same problems with decoders before, and it wasnt always the same type, its happened to bachmann/ gaugemaster etc...

thats why on my exhibition layout i deliberatly put a programing track on so i can always sort them out if needed. but luckily i never did need it. my main problem i experienced was the springs pinning out of the magnetic couplings and sir nigel blowing its valve gear to bits!

in terms of my A4s however...

Sir Nigel Gresley is now on its way back from DCC supplies after having a new chassis fitted from Germany of all places!
Bittern requires a corridor tender still (not got round to that yet!)
Silver Link is undoubtably my best runner, never had one problem with it and its a pleasure to use!
Mallard has been banged up in a museum like the real thing :P
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 29, 2014, 07:51:20 AM

Sir Nigel Gresley is now on its way back from DCC supplies after having a new chassis fitted from Germany of all places!
Bittern requires a corridor tender still (not got round to that yet!)


Sounds like they've had to get a spare back from Heiko, perhaps they've run out of their own stock.

I wish I'd known you wanted to update Bittern's tender fron the non-corridoor it always had in BR service, I'd have swapped as the non-corridoor type isn't easy to get hold of (which is why I bought the s/h Bittern in the first place).  If I get the urge to do GUILLEMOT to complete my Gateshead set I'll get in touch......

All the very best
Les
Title: Dapol valanced A4
Post by: Cutter on August 16, 2015, 10:09:24 PM
Hello,

Is there any sign yet of the valanced A4s promised by Dapol for the third quarter of this year? I haven't seen or heard anything.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on August 19, 2015, 10:28:36 AM
they are currently waiting on a painted prototype to check over before giving the go ahead on the production.

they worked out how to do a valanced on since we saw the prototype earlier this year, its now just working on getting the paint schemes right
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Stevie DC on September 14, 2015, 01:53:57 PM
they are currently waiting on a painted prototype to check over before giving the go ahead on the production.


You mean these ones?

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-12%2013.16.03_zpsv3flzuil.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09-12%2013.16.03_zpsv3flzuil.jpg.html)

These are beginning to shape up really well. I can't wait to get my hands on some, especially Golden Eagle!  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 14, 2015, 02:24:32 PM
We ran the only working prototype on moorside all weekend, the one we had was mallard, video and photos will appear later!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 14, 2015, 06:02:41 PM
for anyone who never saw them, in our little video below you will see both the valanced A4 mallard prototype and schools prototype in operation on moorside valley railway which we were exhibiting at the weekend.

i didnt get a better chance to video the schools however but luckily i did get plenty photos!

https://youtu.be/awAHOn8vkrM
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: joe cassidy on September 14, 2015, 07:46:32 PM
I like the snow - a good wheeze to avoid ballasting  :D

Best regards,


Joe
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 16, 2015, 09:03:50 PM
here are some photos of the prototype valanced A4 Mallard running on our layout at TINGS over the weekend,

my review?


Looks
Looks the part! very smart, very detailed! the lack of valve gear is a compromise but when running is barely noticeable! Our loan model was 4468 Mallard, so easily usable on modern day layouts, however watch out for lack of plaques on the boiler cladding, suggesting this is a pre-preservation era model!

Performance
Luckily for us the locomotive had been run in on Dapols test track, so for us, she was a very smooth very reliable runner! never faultered once! to me it seemed like the previous faults they had with A4s have been rectified, including bogies and pony trucks jumping off the rails, they seemed more sturdy this time round! great runner in both forward and tender first directions!

Overall Marks?
despite being pre-preservation (as im preservation era) and the lack of valve gear, i give this model a firm 10/10, one of the best models iv used from dapol in many a year!

p.s. apologies for a few photos being upside down, dont know why but they keep rotating over when i upload them!

(http://s23.postimg.org/ws0kgbzrr/IMG_3247.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/ws0kgbzrr/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/5vgl80gyf/IMG_3248.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/5vgl80gyf/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/467hzy193/IMG_3249.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/467hzy193/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/f4iri4puf/IMG_3250.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/f4iri4puf/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/47hftd32v/IMG_3251.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/47hftd32v/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/w02huvkyf/IMG_3257.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/w02huvkyf/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/xhny6fpp3/IMG_3259.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/xhny6fpp3/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/43s7qumzb/IMG_3260.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/43s7qumzb/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/hel4hhjvb/IMG_3278.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hel4hhjvb/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/lz28zax93/IMG_3279.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/lz28zax93/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/hfv2awlp3/IMG_3280.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hfv2awlp3/)

(http://s23.postimg.org/hdb6o2i1j/IMG_3281.jpg) (http://postimg.org/image/hdb6o2i1j/)


Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: simonprelude on September 17, 2015, 09:16:04 PM
Please tell me the front coupling can be removed.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 17, 2015, 09:20:40 PM
Please tell me the front coupling can be removed.

Yes it can, its only on as on our lyout we require both forward and tender first running
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on September 21, 2015, 02:24:31 PM
Some closer shots of the new valanced A4 livery samples.

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/12006304_1106720482679032_5245021569963756599_n.png?oh=ca4bfba91fb552b93c98d98e6a13aaea&oe=56642697)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12042864_1106720486012365_5137503712762883045_n.png?oh=f17cda7df5c481a2210b4b1808ac3199&oe=5696993B)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12036548_1106720476012366_2483584190681431980_n.png?oh=ff94b8a7c406e65b67a31edb6e22101b&oe=569E7A69)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/12006343_1106720519345695_7073728467830038503_n.png?oh=cc7083ea0013b28c0164a9c90b3f3c3f&oe=569FBFE7)

(https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xtp1/v/t1.0-9/12049393_1106720516012362_803605406543523511_n.png?oh=9699e76398166691276b09605194ac37&oe=5695F699)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on September 21, 2015, 02:25:58 PM
Even the photos dont do justice to seeing it in your hand and running, beautiful model!
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: paulprice on September 21, 2015, 03:27:27 PM
Could I get away with one on my LMS secondary line layout??
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MalcolmInN on September 21, 2015, 04:48:53 PM
Could I get away with one on my LMS secondary line layout??
Yes, :)
'specially if you set it in / near Carlisle where the LMS intersected the LNER.
Not frequent visitors though.
Spotted Union of South Africa there xx * decades ago.
Also Quicksilver and Merlin were seen. Maybe Bittern also but I cant find my file on that one at the mo.

Oh hang on, I dont think they were valenced by then, might need some pretending :) :)

* by which I mean pre-preservation
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: PLD on September 21, 2015, 05:42:12 PM
Could I get away with one on my LMS secondary line layout??
Yes, :)
'specially if you set it in / near Carlisle where the LMS intersected the LNER.
Not frequent visitors though.
Spotted Union of South Africa there xx * decades ago.
Also Quicksilver and Merlin were seen. Maybe Bittern also but I cant find my file on that one at the mo.

Oh hang on, I dont think they were valenced by then, might need some pretending :) :)

* by which I mean pre-preservation
In original valenced form Pre-WW2, they very rarely strayed off their intended services - East Cost main line expresses. It wasn't until the late 50s they were regular performers on the Waverley Route between Edinburgh and Carlisle, and by that time they had long since lost the valences...


P.S. Standing by for the inevitable complaints that they aren't doing it with valences in BR Green livery!  :no: ;) ::)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on September 21, 2015, 05:47:02 PM
In original valenced form Pre-WW2, they very rarely strayed off their intended services - East Cost main line expresses. It wasn't until the late 50s they were regular performers on the Waverley Route between Edinburgh and Carlisle, and by that time they had long since lost the valences...

Time for rule 1 to be invoked.....  :D

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: MalcolmInN on September 21, 2015, 06:54:41 PM
Could I get away with one on my LMS secondary line layout??
Oh hang on, I dont think they were valenced by then, might need some pretending :) :)
In original valenced form Pre-WW2, they very rarely strayed off their intended services
Thanks for the confirmation ! I'm glad my other braincell woke up in the nick of time :)
There were other times that they appeared in Carlisle (other than the later Waverly performances*) when there was need for diversions from the east routes, but they were probably mostly postWW2 as well ?

However you use the words "very rarely" for preWW2 which leaves us with the possibility that they may have ! ? But of course preWW2 the camera was not as ubiquitous so examples may be difficult to find ,
oh well back to Rule1 with 'shades of grey'   :smiley-laughing:

* which I think were after I had moved on from train spotting to radio & electronics :)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 21, 2015, 09:57:22 PM
Bittern needs to come with a caveat "as preserved"- I'll make sure Joel and Andy know about it.

It was built with a non-corridor tender and kept it to the end.  That tender is still attached to the loco but has been rebuilt with a corridor....

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on September 21, 2015, 10:33:13 PM
Body moulding and livery application looks very nice but I wish they'd managed to squeeze more of the valve-gear in under the valance. As it stands it looks a bit too much of a compromise to me somewhat akin the original pre-war Hornby Dublo A4.

That said it doesn't bother me as I won't be in the market for one. I have the BR green one without valance which to my eye is the way an A4 looks best and full valve gear included!

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: JayM481 on September 21, 2015, 10:35:41 PM
Now will they do the streamliner coach sets? A proper Silver Jubilee or Coronation set would be nice. Even the Scotsman RTS would be good to have. Is it available in N?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Karhedron on September 21, 2015, 10:37:17 PM
I wonder if the release of the valanced version will see a glut of the older ones on eBay. I would quite like a William Whitelaw in garter blue with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the tender. I could then rename it as Seagull to match the condition it was in when it ran on the GWR during the 1948 exchange trials.

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Paddington_4_station_geograph-2283640-by-Ben-Brooksbank.jpg)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 21, 2015, 11:22:01 PM
Might see some of the postwar Mallards on eBay- the worst of the misliveried ones.

Why the worst?  Garter blue LNER 22 with corridor tender.

Mallard was the only A4 not to be repainted blue postwar by the LNER, running right up to Nationalisation in black with a NON-corridor tender.  It emerged in Feb 1948 as E22 with BRITISH RAILWAYS on a corridor tender, the first time it had run with one.

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: simonprelude on September 24, 2015, 08:24:40 AM
To me Mallard must be as preserved (apart from it actually being able to run)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on September 24, 2015, 08:49:37 AM
It emerged in Feb 1948 as E22 with BRITISH RAILWAYS on a corridor tender, the first time it had run with one.

In blue at that point?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Gnep on September 24, 2015, 09:26:05 AM
An LNER dynamometer car would be a lovely thing to have in a set with Mallard...
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 25, 2015, 02:29:48 PM
It emerged in Feb 1948 as E22 with BRITISH RAILWAYS on a corridor tender, the first time it had run with one.

In blue at that point?

Cheers,
Alan

In blue at that point, for the first time since being painted black in June 1942.  My Feb 1948 is wrong- ex paintshop Feb, to traffic March 1948.  Mallard was the last repaint in black before the decision to restore garter blue, which is why it was the last black one...

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: ScottyStitch on September 25, 2015, 03:12:35 PM
It emerged in Feb 1948 as E22 with BRITISH RAILWAYS on a corridor tender, the first time it had run with one.

In blue at that point?

Cheers,
Alan

In blue at that point, for the first time since being painted black in June 1942.  My Feb 1948 is wrong- ex paintshop Feb, to traffic March 1948.  Mallard was the last repaint in black before the decision to restore garter blue, which is why it was the last black one...

Les

Far, far to early for my time period, but an A4 in black, unvalanced.....now that would be eye-catching at the head of a 7 coach express, Aberdeen-Glasgow, in 1964.......  ;)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: jlineton on September 25, 2015, 04:26:46 PM
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/thumb_8048.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8048)  

something a little like this?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: daveg on September 27, 2015, 10:18:13 AM
That black Mallard looks smart!

I have a Sir Nigel - the one with the troublesome ponies. Still on the 'To Be Sorted' list.

Anyone got better ETA info than that on the Dapol site of Q1 2016 for the valanced versions?

Dave G
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: ScottyStitch on September 27, 2015, 10:50:02 AM
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/thumb_8048.JPG[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=8048[/url])  

something a little like this?


Yep! With a BR late crest  :)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on September 29, 2015, 12:04:27 AM
One of my A4s has just gone off for a repair.

Why?  Loco to tender wire pulled out, but has not snapped- it pulled the pillar off the chassis, beyond my ability to mend it.

How did that happen?  My wrist spasmed (RSI side-effect) and the loco went flying, hitting the floor too hard.  Oddly enough the other pickup wire survived as did the drawbar.  The drive shaft came off at the tender end only and somewhere on the floor are the Springside lamps off the front. 

There are some who would say that Dapol locos are too fragile.  I've had other locos end up on the floor, mostly hitting with lower speed.  Some of these had sustained much more damage. 

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on October 03, 2015, 11:32:40 PM
SIX valanced A4s (including a Mallard not seen in the showcase) are having a couple of tweaks made before signing off for production.  Source, Joel (privately) and Andy (announcement) at this year's Dapol Open Day.

No announcements of new products- these will now be made later in the pre-production period.  Bachmann's J72 and OO Class 117 have left a bit of a nasty taste it seems.

One A4 with smashed-up valve gear picked up for £25.  Gives me a good (tested at home) tender drive as a spare, though judging from the fact I've had three B1s worth of spares for 3 years and never needed more than a tiny screw means hopefully I'll never need it.  Also now I have a good double-chimney body and a non-corridor tender to play swaps...

Les

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: daveg on October 04, 2015, 07:34:24 AM
Thanks Les.

What do you think that info means with regard to an ETA? Would there be a build slot already allocated in the the production schedule or does it go to the back of the queue after 'sign off'?

Dave G
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on October 04, 2015, 07:41:25 AM
Scheduled 1/2nd quarter 2016, best bet is wait for official release date off dapol, but thats the aim
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Roy L S on October 04, 2015, 09:05:42 AM
One of my A4s has just gone off for a repair.

Why?  Loco to tender wire pulled out, but has not snapped- it pulled the pillar off the chassis, beyond my ability to mend it.

How did that happen?  My wrist spasmed (RSI side-effect) and the loco went flying, hitting the floor too hard.  Oddly enough the other pickup wire survived as did the drawbar.  The drive shaft came off at the tender end only and somewhere on the floor are the Springside lamps off the front. 

There are some who would say that Dapol locos are too fragile.  I've had other locos end up on the floor, mostly hitting with lower speed.  Some of these had sustained much more damage.

Les

Hi Les

No wonder you seem to have so much trouble with your Farish locos, for the "drop test" the manufacturers use the models are intended to be in their boxes!!

More seriously it has of course happened to me over many years of modelling and is nothing short of a major "disaster" on those (thankfully) very rare occasions when something goes floor bound. I always dread checking models over to see what's come off. My experience has been that quite often the most delicate looking survive more or less intact.

I well recall my 108 DMU power car being dropped by a young lad I let run my layout. I was the other side of the hall but from the expression on the lad's face I knew what had happened instantly ("droppage") and feared the worst. It fell 3ft onto a solid wood floor. A few separately fitted parts on the underframe had come away but apart from that no damage at all.

Kits I have spent hours building shatter into their component parts (never to be the same again).

Even a rufty tufty UM loco lost a buffer.

As I say something for me that is a rarity a once or twice a year happening at best (worst?) but I would never blame manufacturers (nor criticise them for fine detail breaking off) for models not surviving that kind of accident well - they're not designed to.

Nor do I think it is justification to "dumb down" fine detail because I(1) I do not think "solid lumps" is what the market now demands and (2) it needn't necessarily make all that much difference to the outcome.

Regsards

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: joe cassidy on October 04, 2015, 12:18:20 PM
My only 2 Dapol locos (M7 & B17) have hit the deck and both survived with only minor damage.

Strangely none of my Farish locos have fallen off the layout so far, although I did once throw my Crab in the dustbin in a fit of temper. It survived with just a scratch on the tender.

Best regards,


Joe
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on October 04, 2015, 11:59:36 PM
Actually the usual way locos hit the floor is falling off a layout at an exhibition.  I've provided stock for Trevor Webster's first three layouts and had at least one on the floor from each layout.  As a result both of my exhibition layouts have vertical walls along the fiddle yard to stop derailed trains hitting the floor.  Indeed in three years I've only had one van make the trip, and that fell off the front...

At the GCR three day event this summer it was a close-run thing.  Furtwangen was on a particularly springy bit of floor and passers by have heavy feet.  Indeed one small child raced past clumping as small children do and the passenger train standing in the station fell over onto its side.  Later three guys came past in step and everything on the layout was bounced off the track- only for the same thing to happen again before Jim and I had finished the job of re-railing.  After that Jim's patter started "welcome to the Black Forest earthquake zone"

One loco that hit the deck off the back of Parnhams at Taunton was my Foxhunter K3, which lost a small amount of paint from its chimney- the best advert I can think of for solder assembly.

Back to A4s, the NQP won't become a runner, too much damage to the valve gear.  But at £25 it is a cheap source of spares.   It has already donated its tender top to an NQP A3 (shop return as "poor traction").  That one had some solid lubricant around the worm, which I removed.  It took seven coaches at first attempt- I've not tried more as the layout is set up and seven is the most suitable length for Hawthorn Dene's expresses.

Les

PS - I got the impression that the build slot for the valanced A4s is booked.  However I don't think it was specifically stated, but acoustics during the presentation were poor.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on October 05, 2015, 09:09:40 AM
I did once throw my Crab in the dustbin in a fit of temper.

I would have thought Crabs should be disposed of in medical waste receptacles :confused2: ;)
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on October 23, 2015, 12:55:41 AM
My A4 with self-inflicted damage reappeared yesterday from DCC Supplies fully repaired.  Unusually slow for them, the best part of three weeks.   I'll have to adjust the front bogie as it seems not to like the first point in my Northbound fiddle yard at the moment- not the only A4 to have developed that problem over time.   A3s have front bogies that are much more forgiving (though fundamentally the same design they don't need attention so often).

It may have to run Southbound only until after the next show.  Fortunately I'm now back to six working A4s and eleven working A3s at least until I manage to drop another......

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: twaarrd on November 26, 2015, 04:26:53 PM
Received one of the new A4 Mallards in BR Blue this week. Lovely colour, I prefer it to BR Green or LNER Apple Green.

Runs pretty well - much smoother than the A3 Flying Scotsman which came as part of the Dapol/Gaugemaster DCC starter set.

That being said, I finally worked out how to get at the gear mechanism on the A3 (read that the brakes assembly simply needed unclipping). Lubricating those (as instructed) and a spot of conductive lubrication on the axle hubs has helped significantly.

Just need to decide whether to rename/number it to Gresley or not to remind me of watching it go past my school next to the NYMR

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: portland-docks on November 26, 2015, 04:30:07 PM
I had mine renamed and numbered to gresley when i got the model from modelbahn years ago!

Got the official approval off the late roger barker himself :)

Now fitted with sound and lights, one of my best models!

Paul
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: JayM481 on February 16, 2016, 10:07:00 PM
We're halfway into the first quarter of 2016 (the announced release period) and things are silent on the valenced A4s. Is that normal for Dapol? I get the impression that coming models are preceeded by some raised "chatter" and things like Hatton's pre-orders, but nothing yet.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Newportnobby on February 16, 2016, 10:18:11 PM
According to their website the valanced A4s are in 'final decoration' stage and are still due for release 1st quarter 2016. I suggest no breath is held :no:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: JayM481 on February 17, 2016, 11:04:46 PM
I'm not about to starve myself of oxygen  :laughabovepost:

I'm leaving the UK in the Summer, so I hope they manage to release sometime soon. I'd like to have the model(s) in hand before the movers come to pack everything up.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 05, 2016, 10:24:20 AM
I just took delivery of a Modellbahmn Union A4 and after half an hour running in, one of the wires has already broken between loco and tender. This has been an ongoing issue with Dapol but nothing has been done about it. I know this is an easy fix but should it be neccessary?

The last two A4s I had had valve gear issues.

Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on April 05, 2016, 10:30:53 AM
Common - presumably it's broken at the join between the wire and the loop end?

I try and arrange them such that as little bending occurs at this point as possible (usually by pointing the wire ends inwards) and this seems to help.

They are weak though.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Elvinley on April 05, 2016, 10:58:43 AM
Yes, I do the same Al. This has happened on a few brand new locos and is very frustrating indeed. Not worth sending back for but a design fault that needed rectifying years ago.
Cheers,
Ian.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on April 24, 2016, 07:41:20 PM
This came up in a conversation with, of all people, Denis Lovatt.  It started with the topic of failing valve gear, and moved on to failing loco to tender connections.

Valve gear is fragile on all steam locos and the tender connections so on most tender engines.  I wonder if the vulnerability of the current-carrying springy wires on Farish locos may be why they are now hard-wired. 

He wasn't critical of Dapol's design, but felt that too many people are not always as careful as they need to be when picking locos up.  The advice, which we both agreed on, was use both hands if possible, otherwise hold tender locos by the cab and tender together, keeping them in a straight line.  The latter prevents twisting of the current carrying bits on Farish, and helps prevent Dapol wires breaking or driveshafts popping out.

Just a thought.
Les


Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on April 24, 2016, 07:48:08 PM
While on the topic of A4s, has anyone tried simplifying the pivot system for the front bogie?

I'm finding that you can get an A4 running perfectly but it can quickly go out of adjustment.  I'm struggling with one that will turn right quite happily but not left.  It ran perfectly for the first day of a show then started acting up on day two.  A3s don't seem to have the same problem.

The simpler Farish system has the advantage that the bogie tracks the track better- the problem with these is that they flop about so much that getting the loco on the track in the first place (without either grabbing the valve gear or resorting to a railing ramp which isn't always possible) is often a nightmare.

Has anyone simplified the bogie to the A3 arrangement?   Thinking of this I have spare A3 bogies.  I might just try one.

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Les1952 on June 08, 2016, 10:36:38 PM
To answer my own question about A4 front bogies.

I got fed up to the back teeth of my 60018's bogie going out of adjustment.  Every time I fixed it the same- about five laps later it took a dislike to a random point.  Note all five of the other A4s run perfectly, as do all nine A3s in current service.

Matters came to a head when I relaid the exit end of the clockwise fiddle yard on Hawthorn Dene. 60018 the only A4 that wouldn't run through (together with one WD and one 9F).

As a result I fetched an NQP A3 from the spares box and swapped the bogies over.  60018 now runs perfectly.

Trackholding is one of the areas where Farish A1s and A2s score- their bogies are a nightmare to put on the track without grabbing the engine by the valve gear (not recommended) but once on they stay on.  I don't use a rerailing ramp.  My friends who do all seem to lose traction tyres randomly......

Les
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: potts on June 14, 2016, 08:06:16 PM
I have two A4s and one has been a pig since day one, the other a dream. Any one want a pig cheap
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on June 14, 2016, 08:50:34 PM
Any one want a pig cheap

What's wrong with it?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: potts on June 14, 2016, 09:10:14 PM
Yet another with a stutter Dr.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on June 14, 2016, 11:05:22 PM
Yet another with a stutter Dr.

Quite common this - it's a pickup issue that can be resolved.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: potts on June 15, 2016, 11:56:04 AM
Tender pick ups you mean Alan i take it? :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on June 15, 2016, 12:29:07 PM
Tender pick ups you mean Alan i take it? :thankyousign:

No, there are already tender pickups fitted. The problem is that they aren't always very effective, so need some action to improve, mainly careful weighting of the tender. The loco picks up from all driving wheels, but the rear ones are tyred so therefore you only get really effective pickup from the front set. I've added pickups to the rear bogie for the worst offenders too.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: potts on June 15, 2016, 12:36:36 PM
Thank you Alan that makes sense, i have plenty of dapol locos to practice on.
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: rob on December 20, 2018, 05:16:46 PM
Haven’t acquired one yet, but is there an insert available for the streamlined nose to fill the gap if the front coupling is removed?
Title: Re: Dapol A4
Post by: Dr Al on December 20, 2018, 05:40:20 PM
Haven’t acquired one yet, but is there an insert available for the streamlined nose to fill the gap if the front coupling is removed?

Short answer is no. But the bufferbeam is there and coupling hook, so removal of the functional coupler doesn't leave a massive gap.

Cheers,
Alan
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