N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Society => Topic started by: Ben A on January 26, 2017, 08:11:53 PM

Title: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 26, 2017, 08:11:53 PM
Hello all,

The N Gauge Society is about to announce its next RTR model now the Thompson BG coaches are with customers.

The NGS was founded in 1967 so this will be the 50th anniversary model and to mark this we are planning something that we feel is a little bit special.

On this occasion the NGS has decided to make sure members learn about the model first through the pages of its own Journal 1/17, which should be landing on doormats imminently.

Once I know the magazine has arrived I will update this thread with images and information and Mike Hale (NGS Product Develiopment Manager) and I will be delighted to answer questions and discuss the model.

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Paddy on January 28, 2017, 08:31:32 AM
Sounds interesting Ben.  1967 - what a year as that is when I was born!  ;)

Wonder if it could be a Class B tank wagon.  :D

Paddy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Carmont on January 28, 2017, 08:40:07 AM
Cue the inevitable wish list....... ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on January 28, 2017, 08:49:37 AM
All I remember about 1967 is people on LSD and some American dude singing "Are you going to San Francisco....."

Seriously, sounds great.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on January 28, 2017, 09:01:26 AM
2nd year at secondary school, which is now a housing estate.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on January 28, 2017, 09:14:51 AM
On a serious note, I remember the coverage in Railway Modeller at the time. Peco brought out a Class 35 kit which was designed for an Arnold chassis, I believe.

Congratulations on the anniversary!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 28, 2017, 09:23:28 AM

Hello all,

Well I was a dribbling one-year-old when the NGS was born!

I will put up lots of information here about the new model once I know members are receiving their Journals; wishlisting is a little bit pointless as it is already decided on and in CAD!

But we can certainly debate the merits of the selection and it is likely that some members of the NGF will know lots more about the prototype and be able to help us by adding to the reservoir of knowledge!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Carmont on January 28, 2017, 09:38:50 AM

Hello all,

Well I was a dribbling one-year-old when the NGS was born!

I will put up lots of information here about the new model once I know members are receiving their Journals; wishlisting is a little bit pointless as it is already decided on and in CAD!

But we can certainly debate the merits of the selection and it is likely that some members of the NGF will know lots more about the prototype and be able to help us by adding to the reservoir of knowledge!

Cheers

Ben A.

Sorry ben, a bit of tongue in cheek on my part.

It is of course great news and a nice touch.

Alas I wasn't even a twinkle in the eye, let alone born in '67.....
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on January 28, 2017, 09:53:47 AM
Journal received, and I'm very pleasantly surprised indeed :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Portpatrick on January 28, 2017, 09:56:17 AM
1967, when I was 14, was when I got seriously into the Hobby.  Dad took me to the MRC annual Easter show - at the New Horticultural Hall in London.  I bought my first Railway modeller - the July edition.  Railway of the Month was Porthleven, a GWR (things often were then), terminus fiddle year built by Dave Howsham, a school teacher from memory.  And an article on building the Wills Flatiron kit by Cyril Freezer, but relating to Nick.

Once I was at work and had my own wheels I joined Northolt MRC in 1972.  Remained there  with a spell as Treasurer until, having in 1975 moved from the parental home in North harrow to Watford, joined SWHMRS in 1982.  Saved petrol costs and travelling time.

I switched to N Gauge in 1976, and joined NGS in 1983.

How the hobby has moved forwards in that time.

Don't start me on a wish list for an RTR item.  Would we see it before the 55th anniversary given lead times are so long these days.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Mark on January 28, 2017, 10:05:51 AM
I don't want to be the one who spills the beans, so will limit myself to saying - Well done, a really good choice - slightly leftfield and filling (hopefully) a large gap in the market.

A stay alive capacitor would be an excellent feature if you can do it. No mention of a DCC decoder socket though - will there be one?

Mark
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 28, 2017, 11:29:37 AM
Hello all,

The NGS is producing a model of the Hunslet 0-6-0 DH Shunter as its 50th anniversary model.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117111546-480321661.jpeg)

The Hunslet DH was introduced in the early 1960s and saw use in collieries, steel terminals, coking plants, coal concentration depots, oil refineries and fuel storage yards, cement terminals, quarries, dairies and numerous other small industries too numerous to mention.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117111310-480301183.jpeg)

Many are still in use today, and many are preserved.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117111310-48031461.jpeg)

As far as we are aware this is the first ever RTR model of a non-BR diesel ever offered in British N.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117111303-48027290.jpeg)

The model is in CAD at the moment, and we are anticipating delivery in 2018 provided development goes according to plan, though shoehorning in enough weight is going to be a challenge.  The model will have a DCC socket and we are investigating ways of offering it with working lights and a "stay alive" system for optimum performance at slow speeds across point work.

There are literally dozens of potential liveries; in the first instance we are anticipating offering 10 variants including original British coal two-tone green and maroon as shown above, plus British Steel Yellow, BP green, Esso red and several others....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117112744-480331640.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117112746-480341736.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/94-280117111258-480171582.jpeg)

Our aim in selecting liveries will be to optimise a variety of colours, potential traffics and eras, but we are interested on hearing from members on any we may not be aware of, and any older photographs of the Hunslet in use would be of great interest.

We feel that for modellers with a "spare corner" of layout to fill the Hunslet offers the perfect motive power for that small industry or freight facility.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: REGP on January 28, 2017, 11:34:49 AM
A few Class B tankers would go well with the Esso Livery.


Ray
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Portpatrick on January 28, 2017, 11:55:44 AM
At the time of my post earlier today I had not received my Journal 1/17.  The postman delivered it10 minutes ago so I now see what the anniversary model is.  Interesting.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zwilnik on January 28, 2017, 12:39:47 PM
The logical way of shoehorning weight in would be to cast the body in metal wouldn't it?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Newportnobby on January 28, 2017, 12:51:46 PM
Not one for me, I'm afraid, but I wish the NGS multitudinous sales of the model.
Are we allowed to ask who is making it for the NGS?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: fergy1 on January 28, 2017, 12:57:38 PM
I read about it today and am looking forward to it. The Esso version will go well with the B tanks that I've ordered and I hope that an army version i also produced. :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: exmouthcraig on January 28, 2017, 12:58:08 PM
Ben a cracking workhorse of industrial rail yards for the 50 years of the NGS, Hopefully your model will do you proud and be a huge success. Too late for me unfortunately and won't be treating myself to one.

Just a couple of questions if I can,

1, who is building this for you as that's not mentioned  (I don't think I read it anywhere)

2, obviously huge amounts of research goes into this subject before the society can progress or commit to a new model. So with the current brilliant wagon kits the NGS produce and RTR how is the next model selected? I understand you have to select something with a pretty decent lifespan to broaden your sales base so 1 wagon that was built in 1929 would never be viable but can we as members make suggestions and try to raise interest in getting either a new kit or RTR model or does the society have a backlog of one's their already decided on???

Look forward to seeing the progress of this model and best wishes for its huge success
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JasonBz on January 28, 2017, 12:58:18 PM
I ain't really much of a "me too" sortta poster.....
but that's me renewing the lapsed subs to get back in the NGS! :claphappy:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 01:01:42 PM
 :thankyousign: Thank you to all the early posters on this thread for not giving the game away. And for prompting me to check the post.

I'm surprised at how (excitedly) surprised I was to read of the Hunslet as the 50th Anniversary RTR. I'm not really aware of ever lusting after this, but now find myself wondering if my budget can stretch to four or more!

Lots of liveries suggested, but probably only BP of interest to me. A little disappointed not to see ECC or Lafarge amongst the suggested liveries. So I can see a couple going under the gun for a repaint. Hopefully Railtec or Fox will oblige with decals for those liveries and maybe BNFL too.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JasonBz on January 28, 2017, 01:01:59 PM
I suppose it a bit late, or maybe its already in the plans but a plain one with no company markings would be a very good idea in my opinion!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on January 28, 2017, 01:04:29 PM
Potentially one for me, price dependent.

I have some longer term ideas for potential use of this, but other things on the list beforehand.

Will read the journal article when I get home (hopefully).

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 01:15:40 PM
The logical way of shoehorning weight in would be to cast the body in metal wouldn't it?

To quote from the Journal "It will incorporate .. a diecast body with injection moulded cab unit to maximise weight."
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: port perran on January 28, 2017, 01:21:43 PM
I think it's a very good choice as it will appeal to most modellers in that it covers from the transition era right up to the present time. Virtually anything else would preclude many people. I know some who model pre 1960 will be missing out but I guess realistically they are the minority.
I shall get one as I'd like an industrial shunter for my china clay branch. Looking forward to it, possibly the grey or orange version.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 28, 2017, 01:32:45 PM
I would like ESSO but ONLY if the class B tanks go to production. Very little point otherwise. Not much coal or steel where I model.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Cooper on January 28, 2017, 01:56:42 PM
Take my money now. I want at least three! What an excellent choice and with Mike and Ben's frequently stated stance that a smooth running chassis is a priority in their projects this could bring a versatile 0-6-0 chassis to the table. It would no doubt form the basis of many a scratch build, 3D print body and kit bash in the future...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: B757-236GT on January 28, 2017, 02:23:04 PM
I could find this very useful depending on what liveries are being done, a plain one would be very good for those fictional industries. Its also surprising that a model this size in N can have a dcc plug in it. I assume if its from Bachmann it will be a next 18 socket?

Richard
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: acko22 on January 28, 2017, 02:57:01 PM
I know the MOD used them if they still do err pass, but a road trip to Marchwood could be in order, to see if that's what they still use down there, if they do use them there no doubt they well be used elsewhere such as Bicester.

I do know from well living not far from there the Manchester Ship Canal Company (MSC) used them in Trafford Park for some time only been replaced by surplus 08s in the final few years of rail operations in Trafford Park.

Its a great choice of model to go for and well trying to think of an excuse to have once now!!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on January 28, 2017, 03:41:14 PM
We did seriously consider plain liveries but the reality is that most manufacturers have tried them with little success. We feel that there will be enough reasonably plain liveries available for those wanting to create a fictitious livery.

Not sure what DCC socket will be in it yet but should know fairly soon from the CAD.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: robert shrives on January 28, 2017, 04:15:04 PM
Hi ,
Great model and I guess a first for a scale/gauge  supporters club/ society to develop an RTR loco.

The chassis itself will help narrow gauge modellers with its short wheelbase.

Hopefully my mag will arrive soon to allow ordering.
cheers
Robert   
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N-Gauge-US on January 28, 2017, 04:22:10 PM
Very exciting indeed. I have a relatively strict no-diesels policy and this is after my era, but I will still be getting one or two I'm sure :)

Thanks for the info and I look forward to seeing more!

-Philip

PS as I'm unlikely to get my journal for another few weeks, would someone mind listing the liveries that have been announced?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: B757-236GT on January 28, 2017, 04:25:55 PM
We did seriously consider plain liveries but the reality is that most manufacturers have tried them with little success. We feel that there will be enough reasonably plain liveries available for those wanting to create a fictitious livery.

Not sure what DCC socket will be in it yet but should know fairly soon from the CAD.

Cheers Mike

I would agree for things like generic mainline locos but i think with little private owners with this it might do alot better than you might think. Having said that if it is Farish thats doing it, then a little t-cut will sort the problem is seconds as their printing is usually easy to get off.

Richard
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: bluedepot on January 28, 2017, 04:37:54 PM
is a dcc ready smooth running small 0-4-0 shunter still a leap ahead for n gauge?

I prefer the appearance of some other shunters to be honest, like Ruston and Hornsby ones I've seen on preserved times, but I think this model will be very popular with anyone who has private industry or military served rail sidings on their layout or a preserved line.

Best of luck with it NGS

Tim
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: willike1958 on January 28, 2017, 05:07:58 PM
Great idea and great choice of loco. I'm up for a couple. But please, please, pleeeease include the stay alive feature and a dcc socket.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on January 28, 2017, 05:30:00 PM
is a dcc ready smooth running small 0-4-0 shunter still a leap ahead for n gauge?
Well, unless I've missed something, there isn't a UK outline, DCC Ready, small shunter of any description available, never mind whether it runs smoothly.

So, yes....!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 28, 2017, 05:33:53 PM

Hello all,

Thanks to escafeld for posting the current list of liveries but this is a work in progress and these may change subject to feedback from members etc.

There are so many variants to select it is likely that some will prove significantly less popular than others and we need to be realistic about minimum order numbers.

Also, there may be some sense in offering an unlettered version in, say, a plain green, white or blue that might be of use on freelance layouts.

And just to be clear - this loco is 0-6-0, not 0-4-0.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JasonBz on January 28, 2017, 05:40:31 PM
Even suitable for members with an interest in North American railroads ;)

http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/ (http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 28, 2017, 05:46:59 PM
Even suitable for members with an interest in North American railroads ;)

[url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url] ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url])


Actually the photo is of an 0-4-0 but I think it looks great against those huge tankers.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 05:55:43 PM
GBRf anyone?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/philip50008/6426540743/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/philip50008/6426540743/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 28, 2017, 06:04:50 PM
Even suitable for members with an interest in North American railroads ;)

[url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url] ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url])


I love the bell on the bonnet.  And it's already been fitted with Dapol Easi-shunt couplers too...

This is the value of a forum like this.  I have tracked down a fair number of these in their various different liveries in the UK, but while I knew some were exported to Africa I had no idea they (or their 0-4-0 cousins) had reached N America...

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 06:37:40 PM
A match for the NGS Carflats?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/112484822@N02/16038361064/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/112484822@N02/16038361064/in/photostream/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 28, 2017, 06:52:58 PM
Don't forget the fruit gums, mum!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77918006@N03/15616906905/in/photolist-pN1JkB-baTzhD-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ-bo7oDK-zaWofs (https://www.flickr.com/photos/77918006@N03/15616906905/in/photolist-pN1JkB-baTzhD-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ-bo7oDK-zaWofs)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on January 28, 2017, 06:54:17 PM
I too would be interested in one of these - especially in blue. Magazine not arrived yet but, unlike some members in more far flung places, I only have to wait a few days after it starts arriving in the UK. Incidentally, 1967 was the year I started work - on £6.00p a week, having been given a half crown increase before I even started!  :o.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 07:01:01 PM
Even suitable for members with an interest in North American railroads ;)

[url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url] ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url])


I love the bell on the bonnet.  And it's already been fitted with Dapol Easi-shunt couplers too...

This is the value of a forum like this.  I have tracked down a fair number of these in their various different liveries in the UK, but while I knew some were exported to Africa I had no idea they (or their 0-4-0 cousins) had reached N America...

Cheers

Ben A.


National Gypsum Canada
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709380260/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709380260/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 07:09:42 PM
One for the Deeps (aka Submariners)  :D
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16819691@N08/7523026140/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/16819691@N08/7523026140/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: SD35 on January 28, 2017, 07:14:06 PM
What is cracking idea. It should provide additional encouragement that there is always room for an n gauge layout. One of these, a few wagons, a couple of points, a couple of feet of track and away you go.

Some of the liveries in the mag look sufficiently anonymous that they should be easily modified to suit any little private yard.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 07:24:02 PM
National Gypsum Canada
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709380260/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709380260/)
:bounce: Yes, 99% of the WWW is crap. But now and again one stumbles upon a little crumb that turns out to be an absolute diamond.  8)

I'm bookmarking Alessandro Albe's flickr page and immediately running a backup!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 28, 2017, 07:50:08 PM
And I knew I'd seen them in Sri Lanka
https://www.flickr.com/photos/dghchocolatier/4202753499/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/dghchocolatier/4202753499/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zwilnik on January 28, 2017, 08:01:21 PM
I can see these being very popular. I do like the idea of the plain ones too. Plenty of scope for modification I suspect.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 28, 2017, 08:03:38 PM
Even suitable for members with an interest in North American railroads ;)

[url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url] ([url]http://www.railpictures.net/photo/314109/[/url])



...and BOC red...

Cheers

Ben A.

I love the bell on the bonnet.  And it's already been fitted with Dapol Easi-shunt couplers too...

This is the value of a forum like this.  I have tracked down a fair number of these in their various different liveries in the UK, but while I knew some were exported to Africa I had no idea they (or their 0-4-0 cousins) had reached N America...

Cheers

Ben A.


National Gypsum Canada
[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709380260/[/url] ([url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709380260/[/url])
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on January 28, 2017, 09:18:12 PM
Whilst not quite the same model, it looks like a close cousin of the Express Dairies shunter that used to work the milk depot at Morden. Unfortunately the only photo I have seen of it is in B&W so no idea what livery it wore.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5168/5373989780_ed59186802_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on January 28, 2017, 09:21:57 PM
look forward to getting the journal in a couple of weeks Aussie Post permitting. Will have to get one or two, not sure what for yet, maybe the next layout.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on January 28, 2017, 09:25:34 PM
Whilst not quite the same model, it looks like a close cousin of the Express Dairies shunter that used to work the milk depot at Morden. Unfortunately the only photo I have seen of it is in B&W so no idea what livery it wore.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5168/5373989780_ed59186802_b.jpg)

That's really cool, my old manner (and my mums still).

I even had a tour of that dairy as a young Cub, must have been in its final years (not served by Rail by then of course).

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: kiwi1941 on January 28, 2017, 09:29:31 PM
Not one for me, I'm afraid.

Nor me - sad to have to be a grinch. >:(
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JasonBz on January 28, 2017, 09:31:28 PM
Whilst not quite the same model, it looks like a close cousin of the Express Dairies shunter that used to work the milk depot at Morden. Unfortunately the only photo I have seen of it is in B&W so no idea what livery it wore.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5168/5373989780_ed59186802_b.jpg)

Veering rather O/T I reckon that Yardmaster is in Express Diaries blue and white livery, like the lorries and milk-floats were.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on January 28, 2017, 11:13:05 PM
Obviously this is fanciful thinking but dcc controlled couplers on a shunter would be very welcome.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on January 29, 2017, 06:06:54 AM
I'm not a member of the club. Is it possible for non-members to purchase their stock ? Not really been interested before but this model could be within the width to be a good substitute for the class 08........
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on January 29, 2017, 06:11:13 AM
Members only, but there are plenty of reasons to join beyond this.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Mark on January 29, 2017, 10:17:23 AM
I'm not a member of the club. Is it possible for non-members to purchase their stock ? Not really been interested before but this model could be within the width to be a good substitute for the class 08........


Hi Bob,

I'd strongly recommend joining.  Membership is only £16 with a one-off fee of I think £5.  For that you get access to a growing number of excellent rtr models, (including of course the new Hunslet), loads of society kits - all available to members only, the also excellent bi-monthly journal, which for me, is a way better read than any of the monthly magazines, a really useful helpline / email service and plenty of other benefits. 

http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=benefits-of-membership (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=benefits-of-membership)

The society has been re-energised recently with a number of new committee members, many of whom are regular posters on this forum, providing an ever greater level of support and some exciting developments, not least the 1st motive power model.

Without fail it's the best £16 I spend on the hobby every year.

Mark
   
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 29, 2017, 10:26:53 AM
I'm not a member of the club. Is it possible for non-members to purchase their stock ? Not really been interested before but this model could be within the width to be a good substitute for the class 08........

Hi Bob,

I'd strongly recommend joining.  ..

Without fail it's the best £16 I spend on the hobby every year.

Mark
 

 :thumbsup: Seconded.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Byegad on January 29, 2017, 10:33:16 AM
I'm not a member of the club. Is it possible for non-members to purchase their stock ? Not really been interested before but this model could be within the width to be a good substitute for the class 08........


Hi Bob,

I'd strongly recommend joining.  Membership is only £16 with a one-off fee of I think £5.  For that you get access to a growing number of excellent rtr models, (including of course the new Hunslet), loads of society kits - all available to members only, the also excellent bi-monthly journal, which for me, is a way better read than any of the monthly magazines, a really useful helpline / email service and plenty of other benefits. 

[url]http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=benefits-of-membership[/url] ([url]http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=benefits-of-membership[/url])

The society has been re-energised recently with a number of new committee members, many of whom are regular posters on this forum, providing an ever greater level of support and some exciting developments, not least the 1st motive power model.

Without fail it's the best £16 I spend on the hobby every year.

Mark
 


Totally agree with Mark on this, the best money I've ever spent on the hobby. I have been a member 3 times, first joining in the 1970s then when family took over my life leaving, rejoining in the 1990s before a spell on ill health saw me drop out of life, almost, re-joined 2015 and loving the hobby even more. 
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 29, 2017, 10:34:17 AM
This engine is just what I need. I have an isolated yard on my layout just for shunting. Being lazy and mean I have been shunting with a train engine but that costs a whole bogie wagon in the headshunt. The Udesor grain terminal will be buying a Hunslet, though the GBRf liveried one shown earlier would be first choice colour scheme, they will make do with re-labelling one of the others. It will be OK for operating in British or French mode, too, which is a bonus.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Rowlie on January 29, 2017, 03:31:16 PM
What an ambitious and brave decision by the NGS to offer a powered model.  It looks like a rule 1 decision for me (initially).
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Farmer chap on January 29, 2017, 03:55:06 PM
Are any of these in use on preserved / heritage lines?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ollie3440 on January 29, 2017, 04:42:37 PM
Are any of these in use on preserved / heritage lines?

There is certainly one on the Elsecar Heritage Railway. When I last visited it was in BP livery but I believe it has since been repainted (someone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!). I'd also welcome any other information regarding preserved examples, see if I can stretch to more than said BP one!

Cheers

Ollie
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 29, 2017, 06:29:17 PM
Are any of these in use on preserved / heritage lines?


I think a fair few of the liveries that the NGS has chosen are what they are because the visit to scan/measure them/take photos of them would have been from a Heritage line.

The BP one is at Elsecar Heritage Railway.
The NCB Green is currently stored at Long Marston.
The ESSO one still works at Fawley.
Don't know about the others.

There is a very nice Harry Needle yellow one that would be nice for them to do:
http://petertandy.co.uk/hnrc29_lm_openday_030906.jpg (http://petertandy.co.uk/hnrc29_lm_openday_030906.jpg)

Anyway, I am warming to this model...just need an industrial line now.

Best
Bob


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 29, 2017, 06:38:33 PM
And I already found the Rowntree Mackintosh yellow fruit gum one a few days ago  :)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/77918006@N03/15616906905/in/photolist-pN1JkB-baTzhD-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ-bo7oDK-zaWofs (https://www.flickr.com/photos/77918006@N03/15616906905/in/photolist-pN1JkB-baTzhD-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ-bo7oDK-zaWofs)

Seems I like yellow trains.




Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Carmont on January 29, 2017, 07:29:45 PM
Are any of these in use on preserved / heritage lines?


I think a fair few of the liveries that the NGS has chosen are what they are because the visit to scan/measure them/take photos of them would have been from a Heritage line.

The BP one is at Elsecar Heritage Railway.
The NCB Green is currently stored at Long Marston.
The ESSO one still works at Fawley.
Don't know about the others.

There is a very nice Harry Needle yellow one that would be nice for them to do:
[url]http://petertandy.co.uk/hnrc29_lm_openday_030906.jpg[/url] ([url]http://petertandy.co.uk/hnrc29_lm_openday_030906.jpg[/url])

Anyway, I am warming to this model...just need an industrial line now.

Best
Bob


Any clues as to when ESSO started using these, Bob?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JasonBz on January 30, 2017, 12:15:20 AM
Renewed my NGS subs today, probably powered by some desire to get one (or more) of these

Really are the ideal sort motive power for the sort of "exchange sidings" and private wharves / industry that seem to appeal to me lots :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 1936ace on January 30, 2017, 06:38:39 AM
Would love one in ECC livery. I've a dairy depot that needs a shutter and a colliery that needs something too.
So please can we have these liveries😀
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Steven B on January 30, 2017, 09:09:17 AM
A great choice of model! The only problem with it is the choice of liveries!

There are at least two or three I could see a use for in the future. The NCB/British Coal ones would go nicely with the ex BR Class 14s.

I do also like the idea of producing some in plain colours.

Happy modelling.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on January 30, 2017, 09:10:04 AM
at £70 each I'll be getting 3 for my layout.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zopadooper on January 30, 2017, 09:21:53 AM
at £70 each I'll be getting 3 for my layout.

Ben's press release said "around £70". 

The official Society line is "between £65 and £75" but remember how volatile foreign exchange is at the the moment and the model won't be available for around 12 months.

Alan Reed
NGS Society Treasurer
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 30, 2017, 10:47:06 AM
Are any of these in use on preserved / heritage lines?


I think a fair few of the liveries that the NGS has chosen are what they are because the visit to scan/measure them/take photos of them would have been from a Heritage line.

The BP one is at Elsecar Heritage Railway.
The NCB Green is currently stored at Long Marston.
The ESSO one still works at Fawley.
Don't know about the others.

There is a very nice Harry Needle yellow one that would be nice for them to do:
[url]http://petertandy.co.uk/hnrc29_lm_openday_030906.jpg[/url] ([url]http://petertandy.co.uk/hnrc29_lm_openday_030906.jpg[/url])

Anyway, I am warming to this model...just need an industrial line now.

Best
Bob


Any clues as to when ESSO started using these, Bob?


Hi there

I am actually struggling to find a start date for the Esso shunter.
Here it is on Flickr but no mention of a date. The shunter is moving a 4 wheel TTA and behind it a Type B Bitumen Tank. The lack of ESSO branding on the tanks would suggest post TOPS so post 1974 for the photo.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/65480188@N07/28192687403/in/photolist-baTzhD-pN1JkB-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bo7oDK-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-zaWofs-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/65480188@N07/28192687403/in/photolist-baTzhD-pN1JkB-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bo7oDK-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-zaWofs-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ/)

I hope the model replicates the jacking points/lifting points on the large buffers. The 07s also had similar features - helpful to move the shunter back onto the rails if it derailed, because in 1:1 scale there are no big fingers in the sky to help.

The photos of Fawley are rather nice here, with lots of Type B tanks and class 33s on the early pages, then superseded by TEA bogie tanks and class 66s, but again the shunter is there in 2016, and seems to be blue!

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/fawley/index5.shtml (http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/f/fawley/index5.shtml)

There is a nice Hunslet at Esso Purfleet in 1971 here but it is the wrong design of shunter!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6675478833/in/photolist-baTzhD-7nbbbo-woS9zV (https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6675478833/in/photolist-baTzhD-7nbbbo-woS9zV)

The BP version dates from 1967.
So not too good at all at fixing the ESSO date. Sorry.
Bob

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 30, 2017, 10:52:11 AM
The blue ESSO shunter will actually be this one, shot in Eastleigh in 2011. This supports the blue one in 2015 on the Fawley Disused Station pages.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/59572134@N07/5478887117/in/photolist-baTzhD-pN1JkB-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-zaWofs-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ-bo7oDK/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/59572134@N07/5478887117/in/photolist-baTzhD-pN1JkB-nv3nFd-8Y7YmV-8Y7Yvn-bZzbsE-9m9JfZ-7nbbbo-5NF3bi-woS9zV-zaWofs-JXhTKi-LC4YLL-MydbEX-MydaJZ-bo7oDK/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 30, 2017, 04:51:36 PM

Hello all,

Thanks to Bob G and others for the interesting posts and links to the various refinery shunters.

The Esso blue version does not have Esso branding, so we thought the red would be a better model.

Also, there are so many different industrials out there (Ruston, Barclay, Steelman, Thomas Hill, Sentinel, Janus, etc etc) that I think we are hoping members will be pragmatic and "make do" with the loco we are offering - which is one of the most widespread.

So in the photo of Pirfleet linked above - which is exactly the kind of inspirational image I had in mind for an additional small industrial facility - most modellers would be prepared to substitute our Esso Hunslet for the slightly different one that was used in reality.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 30, 2017, 05:10:08 PM

Hello all,

Thanks to Bob G and others for the interesting posts and links to the various refinery shunters.

The Esso blue version does not have Esso branding, so we thought the red would be a better model.

Also, there are so many different industrials out there (Ruston, Barclay, Steelman, Thomas Hill, Sentinel, Janus, etc etc) that I think we are hoping members will be pragmatic and "make do" with the loco we are offering - which is one of the most widespread.

So in the photo of Pirfleet linked above - which is exactly the kind of inspirational image I had in mind for an additional small industrial facility - most modellers would be prepared to substitute our Esso Hunslet for the slightly different one that was used in reality.

Cheers

Ben A.

Yes I thought Purfleet was lovely - all those lovely class B tanks!

Repeat after me - Must order more class B tanks from Revolution.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 30, 2017, 05:51:01 PM
How's this for inspiration?

Inspiration for two Workington Hunslets at least on this link: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=workington%20hunslet (https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=workington%20hunslet)

And this works well for NCB Hunslets: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=NCB%20hunslet%20diesel (https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=NCB%20hunslet%20diesel)

RMS Hunslet at Middlesborough: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=rms%20hunslet%20 (https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=rms%20hunslet%20)

CEGB Carrington's Hunslet is here: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=CEGB%20hunslet%20 (https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=CEGB%20hunslet%20)

There is inspiration for a Peak Forest operation, but the Hunslets are slightly different design (I think) so Ben hasn't done these: https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=hunslet%20tunstead (https://www.flickr.com/search/?text=hunslet%20tunstead)

That's all for now...
Bob











 

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on January 30, 2017, 06:07:09 PM
The CEGB had two Hunslets (at least 2 and 3). 3 (works number 8976) is the same loco that eventually ended up as Hunslet's work's shunter when they were doing the 323s and eventually became one of the Workington pair.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on January 30, 2017, 06:14:28 PM
Sorry if this is a silly question but did the Esso version ever venture out onto the main line ?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on January 30, 2017, 07:52:46 PM
I saw this news  in the Journal at the Weekend. All I can say is wow!

Such an intelligent and intuitive choice, plugging one gaping hole in British N, the RTR industrial shunter - well done to the decision makers, this is absolutely spot on..

A red Esso one will definitely have my name on it as soon as the order book opens plus another one when I have decided which livery. I will also look to add a few more Class Bs to my order before end of Feb.

I think DCC ready is a must even if it has to employ a right angled decoder like the Jinty, and a "stay alive" feature - I have been wittering on about this for a while, I hope it proves feasible.

Knowing that Colin Allbright is the designer is very reassuring given his vast wealth of experience, like others I would love to know who the manufacturer is to be..

If the "stay alive"  feature is workable, how about a Sentinel Y1 or Y3 next....(dives for cover....)...

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 30, 2017, 10:02:35 PM
Sorry if this is a silly question but did the Esso version ever venture out onto the main line ?

The Fawley one which I think is the modelled one, probably not - except into Fawley station loop lines, perhaps, where the exchange to class 33 traction took place.

The little Purfleet one probably even less likely as it had less power. But if its your layout...anything could happen. The blue ESSO one made it from Fawley to Eastleigh for maintenance, for example.

HTH
Bob
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on January 30, 2017, 10:26:17 PM
Anyone got a link to a MoD Hunslett ( colour preferably)

NIckR
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 30, 2017, 10:54:45 PM

Hi NickR,

This one is closer to the Hunslet 0-6-0DH we are doing but has additonal cylindrical tanks below the footplate.  I think this one may have been built to a slightly larger loading gauge for use with the BAOR, however this image shows it at Kineton.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5538184852/in/photolist-hmbK8v-9Nw4mk-iFWFK6-GmgDM3-zd311g-9roDpJ-9rkKkg-9uufPB-qY5Y1B-9qRDuj-qQ2G9Y-9uufRx-JpfWkU-JpfWuw-bXudVN (https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5538184852/in/photolist-hmbK8v-9Nw4mk-iFWFK6-GmgDM3-zd311g-9roDpJ-9rkKkg-9uufPB-qY5Y1B-9qRDuj-qQ2G9Y-9uufRx-JpfWkU-JpfWuw-bXudVN)

Of course, for locomotives that never passed onto BR rails the loading gauge may not be an issue.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on January 30, 2017, 10:57:53 PM
The shunter will be DCC ready.  The stay alive facility really depends on whether we can come up with something that works (preferably on DC as well).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 30, 2017, 11:06:32 PM
Another BAOR one (a Rule #1 match for the forthcoming NGS modern Warflats)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709190068/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/alcoalbe/15709190068/in/photostream/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on January 30, 2017, 11:09:35 PM

Hi NickR,

This one is closer to the Hunslet 0-6-0DH we are doing but has additonal cylindrical tanks below the footplate.  I think this one may have been built to a slightly larger loading gauge for use with the BAOR, however this image shows it at Kineton.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5538184852/in/photolist-hmbK8v-9Nw4mk-iFWFK6-GmgDM3-zd311g-9roDpJ-9rkKkg-9uufPB-qY5Y1B-9qRDuj-qQ2G9Y-9uufRx-JpfWkU-JpfWuw-bXudVN (https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5538184852/in/photolist-hmbK8v-9Nw4mk-iFWFK6-GmgDM3-zd311g-9roDpJ-9rkKkg-9uufPB-qY5Y1B-9qRDuj-qQ2G9Y-9uufRx-JpfWkU-JpfWuw-bXudVN)

Of course, for locomotives that never passed onto BR rails the loading gauge may not be an issue.

Cheers

Ben A.

I vote for an MoD version!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 30, 2017, 11:23:13 PM
Hello all,

I think this is the same one at Old Oak, coupled to a Warwell:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/banburybob/3191690643/in/photolist-qY5Y1B-aFBAV6-rv2Zqu-Bta1Ax-9fMt6v-p4Zomx-9fMt8X-CkHgqL-zd311g-ukxGXX-5S3fr2-8mvXRh-6mRfck-6mVpko-6mVp13-6mVpdU-6AbG2a-9vspFn-dMuiSa-oMvxUA-d4ttP9-oMvfuK-p4Xrdq-bxRGpx-oMuYdC-HijDaP-LtAWfw-L8nsau-bjWMX9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/banburybob/3191690643/in/photolist-qY5Y1B-aFBAV6-rv2Zqu-Bta1Ax-9fMt6v-p4Zomx-9fMt8X-CkHgqL-zd311g-ukxGXX-5S3fr2-8mvXRh-6mRfck-6mVpko-6mVp13-6mVpdU-6AbG2a-9vspFn-dMuiSa-oMvxUA-d4ttP9-oMvfuK-p4Xrdq-bxRGpx-oMuYdC-HijDaP-LtAWfw-L8nsau-bjWMX9)

It is clearly longer than the "standard" Hunslet; the wheelbase seems to be the same but the longer bonnet appears to have an additional bay.  Rule 1, anyone?

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Steven B on January 31, 2017, 09:38:04 AM
The CEGB had two Hunslets (at least 2 and 3). 3 (works number 8976) is the same loco that eventually ended up as Hunslet's work's shunter when they were doing the 323s and eventually became one of the Workington pair.


The Hunslet works shunter (1980 built HE 8976) can be seen with a class 323 about 2/3rds down this page:
http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/histhe.asp (http://www.leedsengine.info/leeds/histhe.asp)

Happy modelling.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Calnefoxile on January 31, 2017, 02:35:34 PM

Hi NickR,

This one is closer to the Hunslet 0-6-0DH we are doing but has additonal cylindrical tanks below the footplate.  I think this one may have been built to a slightly larger loading gauge for use with the BAOR, however this image shows it at Kineton.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5538184852/in/photolist-hmbK8v-9Nw4mk-iFWFK6-GmgDM3-zd311g-9roDpJ-9rkKkg-9uufPB-qY5Y1B-9qRDuj-qQ2G9Y-9uufRx-JpfWkU-JpfWuw-bXudVN (https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5538184852/in/photolist-hmbK8v-9Nw4mk-iFWFK6-GmgDM3-zd311g-9roDpJ-9rkKkg-9uufPB-qY5Y1B-9qRDuj-qQ2G9Y-9uufRx-JpfWkU-JpfWuw-bXudVN)

Of course, for locomotives that never passed onto BR rails the loading gauge may not be an issue.

Cheers

Ben A.

I vote for an MoD version!

Don't normally do 'me too' posts, but in this case ME TOO   :D :D

Cheers

Neal.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 31, 2017, 02:38:00 PM
A short wheelbase 0-6-0 shouldn't need a keepalive just sufficient weight and enough play that it can keep all the axles on the track. I've got several German 0-4-0 and 0-6-0 chassis that size or smaller that simply don't have problems (even the ancient Ibertren 0-4-0) providing there is enough weight on them.

I think it's a great choice and potentially also a very useful chassis for other projects. An awful lot of industrial 0-6-0 saddle tanks, and many small railway company ones pretty closely fit that pattern of tight 0-6-0 chassis design.

Alan

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 31, 2017, 02:39:53 PM
This engine is just what I need. I have an isolated yard on my layout just for shunting. Being lazy and mean I have been shunting with a train engine but that costs a whole bogie wagon in the headshunt. The Udesor grain terminal will be buying a Hunslet, though the GBRf liveried one shown earlier would be first choice colour scheme, they will make do with re-labelling one of the others. It will be OK for operating in British or French mode, too, which is a bonus.

On reflection, I shall be happy with the CEGB version which features one of the Udesor house colours and can be relabelled easily with a logo on the cab sides.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 31, 2017, 02:43:12 PM

Hi NickR,

This one is closer to the Hunslet 0-6-0DH we are doing but has additonal cylindrical tanks below the footplate.  I think this one may have been built to a slightly larger loading gauge for use with the BAOR, however this image shows it at Kineton.


It's a actually a Barclay loco, on of a set of six built with 600hp rolls royce engines for the MOD. It's got an 01-xxx number as it's Network Rail registered, but it is only permitted between Kineton MOD and Fenny Compton (that section being conformant to Berne gauge)

Given the small wheels and relatively low height (despite the wide body) I'd have though it was easier modelled starting with a Farish 04 chassis.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 31, 2017, 03:02:43 PM
Hello all,

I think this is the same one at Old Oak, coupled to a Warwell:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/banburybob/3191690643/in/photolist-qY5Y1B-aFBAV6-rv2Zqu-Bta1Ax-9fMt6v-p4Zomx-9fMt8X-CkHgqL-zd311g-ukxGXX-5S3fr2-8mvXRh-6mRfck-6mVpko-6mVp13-6mVpdU-6AbG2a-9vspFn-dMuiSa-oMvxUA-d4ttP9-oMvfuK-p4Xrdq-bxRGpx-oMuYdC-HijDaP-LtAWfw-L8nsau-bjWMX9 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/banburybob/3191690643/in/photolist-qY5Y1B-aFBAV6-rv2Zqu-Bta1Ax-9fMt6v-p4Zomx-9fMt8X-CkHgqL-zd311g-ukxGXX-5S3fr2-8mvXRh-6mRfck-6mVpko-6mVp13-6mVpdU-6AbG2a-9vspFn-dMuiSa-oMvxUA-d4ttP9-oMvfuK-p4Xrdq-bxRGpx-oMuYdC-HijDaP-LtAWfw-L8nsau-bjWMX9)

It is clearly longer than the "standard" Hunslet; the wheelbase seems to be the same but the longer bonnet appears to have an additional bay.  Rule 1, anyone?

Cheers

Ben A.

Are all the longer hoods hiding Rolls Royce engines with the shorter hoods hiding Cummins or Paxmans?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 31, 2017, 05:19:14 PM
A short wheelbase 0-6-0 shouldn't need a keepalive just sufficient weight and enough play that it can keep all the axles on the track.

<snipped>

Alan

Hi Alan,

Yes - getting enough weight in is the major design challenge.  For that reason, if a stay alive is feasible I think I would be happier with it in there as a belt-and-braces solution.

And yes, we should make it clear that the MOD version pictured would not an accurate model, but more a representation.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on January 31, 2017, 06:43:52 PM
I may be interested in a military representation or an ECC representation, I think ECC had 0-4-0 and 0-8-0 but not seen a 0-6-0.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: EtchedPixels on January 31, 2017, 08:26:12 PM
Hi Alan,

Yes - getting enough weight in is the major design challenge.  For that reason, if a stay alive is feasible I think I would be happier with it in there as a belt-and-braces solution.

The keepalive can end up bigger than the needed weight so as always it's difficult. At least with flywheels you can do the maths on which of the wheel or capacitor stores the most energy per mm³.

From what I've seen with the German chassis the independent movement of the axles seems to be the most critical bit. That and sometimes a little springing seems to get almost all of the wheels on the track all the time. I think the Dapol 14xx is another good example - the independently sprung back axle makes an amazing difference even though it's light. Easier of course because it's an 0-4-2 though.

On the subject of uses and places - at least one of them seems to be on a preserved railway. Colonel Tomline was donated by the Felixstowe Dock company to the East Anglia Railway Museum.

PS: The website asks about liveries and comments. For quite a few repaints I'd start with the Lafarge Cement one because right now it's the only one with wasp stripes on the nose, and I hate repainting wasp stripes...

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on January 31, 2017, 09:24:47 PM

Hi Alan,

Yes, I agree.  With a loco this small it is going to be a careful balance and I am sure that Colin and the designers in China will be looking at a variety of options.

If we can squeeze in a decent weight brass flywheel we certainly will!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PhilD on February 01, 2017, 04:33:08 AM
Ben, There's obviously a lot of interest in this model. If the order form is in the next edition of the N Gauge Journal, are overseas contributors likely to be disadvantaged if there is a limited run of these models?
Cheers
Phil
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on February 01, 2017, 04:51:43 AM
This from the NGS website. I don't think you need worry.

Quote
It is intended to publish a pre-order form in journal 2/17 towards the end of March, at which time it will also be possible to place pre-orders online at [url=http://www.ngsjoin.com]www.ngsjoin.com[/url] ([url]http://www.ngsjoin.com[/url]).  Anticipated delivery is the first half of 2018.  Pre-orders received by December 31st 2017 (this date may be extended if delivery is delayed) will qualify for a discount of £5 per model ordered.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on February 01, 2017, 09:18:50 AM

Hi Phil,

Don't worry.  If any given livery is oversubscribed at the pre-order stage then we will produce enough to fulfil all pre orders.

Pre-ordering guarantees a particular selection; if you don't preorder you will still be able to buy models but only in non-sold out liveries.

I hope this is clear!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on February 01, 2017, 03:03:59 PM
I'll be in for at least one.

I'm not bothered about livery. Controversial, I know, but since it'll be operating on a fictitious industry, or a fictitious preserved railway, Rule One positively requires it to have been acquired third hand from some unrelated source, and to languish for years in the 'wrong' livery until the site odd job man acquires a suitable pot of paint and sprays out the offending logo(s).  ;)

That's what's happened to my Class 04 anyway...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on February 01, 2017, 03:53:56 PM
It's looking increasingly like I can't resist the Triple Grey one.

Who knew this brilliant livery was applied to such a shunter (well obviously some people did, it's a learning day for me!).

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Smiffy on February 01, 2017, 03:59:25 PM
Spoilt for choice, ESSO, HNRC, GBRF or MOD - one or many is now the dilemma?

Is it possible to run a vote on liveries?

I think the final MOD shunters were put up for auction at the end of last year.

Regards

Iain
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 01, 2017, 04:14:16 PM
We have listed some of the potential liveries though there is no guarantee that all will be produced - there are far too many choices!

Ideally I think that Ben and I would like to run a vote on some of the potential liveries - hopefully we'll get the OK from the NGS Committee this weekend.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on February 02, 2017, 09:18:48 AM
I think that the British Steel yellow has widespread application. I have seen plenty of yellow liveried shunters for several different industries and I don't think the livery was unique to British steel (even if that particular example was). Here are some more yellow shunters, not necessarily the same prototype but it shows how common the livery was.

MMB shunter at Chard
(http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/8114419_orig.jpg)

Exmouth Jn Coal Concentration Depot , the shunter was owned by Renwick Wilton & Dobson who ran the depot.
(http://www.cornwallrailwaysociety.org.uk/uploads/7/6/8/3/7683812/7768503_orig.jpg)

Commonwealth Smelting
(http://www.geoffspages.co.uk/raildiary/swind_htm_files/82.jpg)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Yet_Another on February 02, 2017, 09:53:42 AM
To quote Wikipedia:

Safety yellow is one of the standard high-visibility safety colors defined by ANSI standard Z535, which specifies standards for safety and accident prevention information. It is often used on hazard symbols, warning signs, guard rails, dangerous equipment, and some high-visibility clothing and personal protective equipment. The definition is mirrored in British Standard BS 381C and Australian Standard AS2700 (where it is known as golden yellow). In 1937, it was determined that safety yellow was the best color to be noticed by the human brain; as a result, the paint color of all school buses was changed from orange to safety yellow (see also school bus yellow).

So chances are that a lot of shunters in industrial settings that mix with road traffic, for example, will feature yellow.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 02, 2017, 01:11:23 PM
Another vote for MOD please! Would go well with the NGS military wagons :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on February 02, 2017, 01:26:42 PM
And a vote for generic yellow here - maybe plain yellow with rub down transfers.

This one is NCB yellow:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6546063893/in/photolist-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt-b8BoDP-bvrCW3-nV7cD2-bAffHA-986xTj-pN1JkB-bdnapp-9CXvkz-gJyHRH-b6N7zg-9D1spN-4fzMwG-9T2mYi-baTyGx-nKHTPA-bpRuPU-dwwfLu-jyVYiV-8y5dEV-qi6bUN-9LBWX5-dhcmpZ-7bs3np-75WyDq-bNvsjZ-bbne2k-ptnjdz-da6WVG-7fGbxV-dU5gk5-aoUmz4-7bs3ng-qpU86y-fif8Hg-qKH15r (https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/6546063893/in/photolist-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt-b8BoDP-bvrCW3-nV7cD2-bAffHA-986xTj-pN1JkB-bdnapp-9CXvkz-gJyHRH-b6N7zg-9D1spN-4fzMwG-9T2mYi-baTyGx-nKHTPA-bpRuPU-dwwfLu-jyVYiV-8y5dEV-qi6bUN-9LBWX5-dhcmpZ-7bs3np-75WyDq-bNvsjZ-bbne2k-ptnjdz-da6WVG-7fGbxV-dU5gk5-aoUmz4-7bs3ng-qpU86y-fif8Hg-qKH15r)

This one is not a Hunslet but similar:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/77918006@N03/15616906905/in/photolist-pN1JkB-bdnapp-9CXvkz-gJyHRH-b6N7zg-9D1spN-4fzMwG-9T2mYi-baTyGx-nKHTPA-bpRuPU-dwwfLu-jyVYiV-8y5dEV-qi6bUN-9LBWX5-dhcmpZ-7bs3np-75WyDq-bNvsjZ-bbne2k-ptnjdz-da6WVG-7fGbxV-dU5gk5-aoUmz4-7bs3ng-qpU86y-fif8Hg-qKH15r-qrgCVZ-dCTWHB-9CXyyR-kjxPVT-qrXAyM-aoX7py-aoX7kL-9DBEba-9PBFKC-rymVry-bMK6X8-8mxz4Q-5YnQD6-bNEGL6-b7sZs8-otSeva-8CVjKP-i2HTTZ-hi6uBL-BSF8y4 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/77918006@N03/15616906905/in/photolist-pN1JkB-bdnapp-9CXvkz-gJyHRH-b6N7zg-9D1spN-4fzMwG-9T2mYi-baTyGx-nKHTPA-bpRuPU-dwwfLu-jyVYiV-8y5dEV-qi6bUN-9LBWX5-dhcmpZ-7bs3np-75WyDq-bNvsjZ-bbne2k-ptnjdz-da6WVG-7fGbxV-dU5gk5-aoUmz4-7bs3ng-qpU86y-fif8Hg-qKH15r-qrgCVZ-dCTWHB-9CXyyR-kjxPVT-qrXAyM-aoX7py-aoX7kL-9DBEba-9PBFKC-rymVry-bMK6X8-8mxz4Q-5YnQD6-bNEGL6-b7sZs8-otSeva-8CVjKP-i2HTTZ-hi6uBL-BSF8y4)

This one is a Harry Needle one:
http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=harry+needle+shunter&view=detailv2&&id=AD7716E32DCB80914DBBE2BAAA153AFCFEAA6DA9&selectedIndex=13&ccid=Ck7F1EbT&simid=608001352799751162&thid=OIP.Ck7F1EbTKQuhUAwe0nvsIAEsDJ&ajaxhist=0 (http://www.bing.com/images/search?q=harry+needle+shunter&view=detailv2&&id=AD7716E32DCB80914DBBE2BAAA153AFCFEAA6DA9&selectedIndex=13&ccid=Ck7F1EbT&simid=608001352799751162&thid=OIP.Ck7F1EbTKQuhUAwe0nvsIAEsDJ&ajaxhist=0)

And these are Peak Forest ones:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt)

Random thought - if the cab was removable for DCC chipping (it sounds like it will be plastic and the bodies metal) then you could easily do any number of two tone liveries with different cab colours, like the Peak Forest ones, easily.

Strange that Lloyd (the Bachfar 04) doesn't seem to be selling that well. Perhaps that's because it doesn't look like an industrial?

Bob

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on February 02, 2017, 02:08:31 PM
I need some Peak Forest ex British Steel ones !..
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on February 02, 2017, 02:16:10 PM
And a vote for generic yellow here - maybe plain yellow with rub down transfers.

The only identifier on the proposed yellow example is the number plate. I wonder how easy it will be to remove? If it is etched then maybe careful use of craft knife. If it is printed then perhaps rubbing it off.

I do agree that some plain yellow ones might be good for those who want to "brew their own".  :NGaugersRule:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 02, 2017, 02:19:11 PM
I'm afraid that I'm going to be a bit of a party-pooper here!

We'd rather not start putting fictitious liveries on the Hunslet, particularly when there are so many attractive real liveries we can put on it! I understand the appeal of (for example) doing an MoD shunter but I'd rather see evidence that the MoD had one (I know they had lots of similar ones). Of course what the end user does with it is entirely up to them  :D!

Similarly un-numbered/unlettered but painted liveries start to increase the administrative difficulties (ie doubling the number of variations) as well as a whole set of variations for the factory to worry about.  On a personal level I think there are a great idea, but the reality is that time and again manufacturers have offered this as an option only to find it has sold disastrously (I know that is the case for Dapol, Rapido and Revolution). For most people if you are willing to customise a plain livery for your own use then removing a number and logo shouldn't be beyond you.

Lots of options are very tempting, but we are offering a RTR model not a customised specify your own model.

Cheers, Mike

(NGS Product Development Officer)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 02, 2017, 02:23:36 PM
And a vote for generic yellow here - maybe plain yellow with rub down transfers.
And these are Peak Forest ones:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt)

Random thought - if the cab was removable for DCC chipping (it sounds like it will be plastic and the bodies metal) then you could easily do any number of two tone liveries with different cab colours, like the Peak Forest ones, easily.

The NCB yellow and Rowntrees shunters are different types of shunter.  That picture of the Tunstead "Dovedale" shunter is great - I've only found a couple of pictures of it so far!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on February 02, 2017, 06:56:25 PM
And a vote for generic yellow here - maybe plain yellow with rub down transfers.
And these are Peak Forest ones:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt)

Random thought - if the cab was removable for DCC chipping (it sounds like it will be plastic and the bodies metal) then you could easily do any number of two tone liveries with different cab colours, like the Peak Forest ones, easily.

The NCB yellow and Rowntrees shunters are different types of shunter.  That picture of the Tunstead "Dovedale" shunter is great - I've only found a couple of pictures of it so far!

Cheers, Mike

Mike

Yes I am aware they are different manufacturers - I was just going on the yellow centre cab concept. A bit like painting a DB V60 in UK colours and calling it a Hunslet, or a V100 a Clayton.
Totally unacceptable nowadays :)

What I would suggest in terms of liveries is making sure there are wagons for the Hunslet to shunt.
Like Revolution's Class B tanks or the new Farish TEAs for the ESSO version :) :) :)

I agree with you the Dovedale shunter is a great picture. Real train in the landscape stuff that is.

Bob


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on February 02, 2017, 07:33:31 PM
And a vote for generic yellow here - maybe plain yellow with rub down transfers.
And these are Peak Forest ones:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75892080@N06/15472102375/in/photolist-pzdyZM-ah1XGd-csMtzf-9CXy9K-dwsyUr-e69m1Q-dFYDp4-oJvbyx-d4PUYJ-da4o6y-aBA2cU-d5zZtb-ndRH1N-nv4ofp-an2JxC-ejijx1-nv5rXo-awwx1x-qukaSS-n3fQGM-4JTnqJ-pv4CLG-9f2PBr-bc5cXp-gJd4BB-dacYK6-bbQPbg-JGaJ6q-r5MSzG-b8Boor-obkM8E-nZHLKZ-qBoH6W-csMt5w-kfJM7g-aYshJz-pqGGvk-pLG9qy-aoUmAT-cRPyw9-kK6dnk-bCea1A-bCQ6Z8-p2AiMz-pmUV9L-ceqi1Q-9D1tDW-pqhSY9-qr8Qmo-9mPtXt)

Random thought - if the cab was removable for DCC chipping (it sounds like it will be plastic and the bodies metal) then you could easily do any number of two tone liveries with different cab colours, like the Peak Forest ones, easily.

The NCB yellow and Rowntrees shunters are different types of shunter.  That picture of the Tunstead "Dovedale" shunter is great - I've only found a couple of pictures of it so far!

Cheers, Mike

Mike

Yes I am aware they are different manufacturers - I was just going on the yellow centre cab concept. A bit like painting a DB V60 in UK colours and calling it a Hunslet, or a V100 a Clayton.
Totally unacceptable nowadays :)

What I would suggest in terms of liveries is making sure there are wagons for the Hunslet to shunt.
Like Revolution's Class B tanks or the new Farish TEAs for the ESSO version :) :) :)

I agree with you the Dovedale shunter is a great picture. Real train in the landscape stuff that is.

Bob

Or painting a 3F Jinty blue and calling it Thomas.  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ScottishModeller on February 02, 2017, 07:34:16 PM
That picture of the Tunstead "Dovedale" shunter is great - I've only found a couple of pictures of it so far!

Cheers, Mike
Hi Mike,

More photos of Dovedale...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5867641376/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5867641376/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5867086437/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5867086437/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5867639988/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5867639988/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8502308971/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8502308971/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/8381940580/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/httpwwwpeakdaleworkscom/8381940580/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8502308675/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8502308675/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8503414704/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/16205328@N02/8503414704/in/photolist-9WvcmC-9WsmoH-9WvbWG-dXjyeZ-dLFCUU-dXjy9T-dXqdWm/)

Also try pm on DEMU Forum to Paul Harrison.

Thanks

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 02, 2017, 07:38:31 PM
Is that the same class being produced by NGS?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ScottishModeller on February 02, 2017, 07:50:46 PM
Is that the same class being produced by NGS?
Hi There,

No - it's not, but it is the loco that Mike was asking about.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Les1952 on February 04, 2017, 04:24:42 PM
My vote is definitely for the green NCB one.  Probably three for me.

There were eight of these in all, numbered 500 to 507.  They were delivered to the Bowes Railway at Springwell Bank Foot, to the former South Shields, Marsden and Whitburn Railway at Whitburn shed, and to Wearmouth Colliery.  Each of these had some lengthy runs, the Whitburn trio working along the clifftops to South Shields.  There had previously been a passenger service on this line with ex- NER/LNER 0-6-0s .

Later transfers took the Whitburn ones to Boldon and Westoe collieries, working over BR from Boldon to South Shields.  Another found its way to Derwenthaugh working up the valley to Clockburn Drift. .  Wardley loco shed replaced Springwell Bank Foot, and this put the class adjacent to Tyne Freightliner yard.

There was a ninth member of the class in the North East, Number 66 which was at Bates Pit, Blyth before coming to join the others in County Durham.  I suspect this one might have been blue.

Hope this all helps.
Les
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on February 04, 2017, 05:45:51 PM

Hi Les,

Thanks for those notes - very helpful.  I have also received some very helpful notes from ScottyStitch (though I am not sure he is still on the forum) and have been in contact with Wabtec, who now own Hunslet, too.

Having said that, I am more than ready to admit there are huge gaps in my knowledge and I seem to keep finding new or different liveries/locos every time I google.

If anyone has any more knowledge of these locomotives I'd be delighted to hear it!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Les1952 on February 06, 2017, 11:30:17 PM
A little bit of Doctor Who thinking (elastic timey-wimey) could put the NCB green one at the head of a passenger train.

There were public passenger trains between South Shields (Westoe Lane) and Whitburn, worked by the NCB.  These had finished about a decade before the Hunslet diesels replaced the last of the steam locos that had been used on them (18 inch Stephenson saddletanks, like No.16 and No.38 at Marley Hill on the Tanfield Railway).  However it could be possible.

There weren't passenger services on the Bowes Railway or at Whitburn or Derwenthaugh.  Someone might know if there were paddy trains at either Bedlington or Bates Collieries where No.66 worked.

I had a cab ride in a maroon Hunslet at Prince of Wales Colliery, Pontefract on a school visit (two teachers and eight boys- a bit of a squash all in the Hunslet cab at the same time). These were quite widespread and I think some of these were anonymous (including this one).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/1473-060217233207.jpeg)

How about leaving the number off the maroon one for those wanting an unnumbered Hunslet.  that would still be a correct historical loco.

Les


Edited to add a picture of the Prince of Wales Colliery maroon Hunslet.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bornin1980something on February 15, 2017, 09:23:49 PM
I see the NGS now has a page listing all proposed variants, including an undecorated one.

http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=hunslet-industrial-shunter (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=hunslet-industrial-shunter)

Personally, I would like to put my deposit in when possible, but I am wondering which one would be more suitable for my scenario. My layout depicts a preservation scene in the Lake District. When possible, I like to add items which give it a distinctly North Western feel. Such items are quite rare. For this reason, my initial form was maybe the Port of Workington locos. However, it seems they are still in front line use. The NCB locos seem to be attached to different regions (though I already own an old Farish NCB J94).

Apparently, the British Steel loco is also associated with Workington. It may also look familiar to people in Teesside, where I actually live. There's also the Railfreight Distribution one, the only one specifically painted as a preserved loco. Apparently the prototype was at Carnforth, once the place most associated with preservation in the North West. I would love to know exactly when the prototype was painted that way. In truth, despite the fact my layout is set in the present day, I do have a couple of locos painted as past Lakeside and Haverthwait locos.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/48/5537-140217222103.jpeg)

They are the famous collectors club Fairburn, sold as returned stock at last year's AGM (it works fine, and I'm never giving it back!), and also a 'Maroon Five.' I decided to go for a retro look in the above photograph, shot on film and showing only 70s era road vehicles. Suppose the only real downside to the RfD Hunslet is that it is painted like a BR loco, and I really want something that is obviously an industrial. The point is, I can only afford one.

Also, I have questions about the possible uses for this loco in a preserved context. Many preserved lines use industrial steam locos to haul passengers, but old industrial diesels seem to be restricted to the yards most of the time. I already have a static industrial diesel (an Etched Pixels 48DS, so glued together that the Peco plastic wheels can't even turn). The Hunslet, however, seems to be a bit large and expensive for a static model. Are there any lines where these things have hauled passengers? And how fast are they, because I believe a modern preserved operation would require a speed of about 20 mph.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on February 15, 2017, 11:12:58 PM

Hi bornin1980something,

If you are depicting a preserved railway then you can have any livery you want!

Preserved examples include "Louise" which is 6950 in its later BP livery as operated on the Elsecar railway, and 6614 in NCB two tone green.

The RfD livery on 7017 at Carnforth was carried in the late 1990s I believe.

HTH

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: acko22 on February 15, 2017, 11:56:35 PM
Hi All,

OK kind of a bummer in some respects, while the MOD has a few various Hunslet based designs for use at railheads. But the design that the is been offered by NGS is not the same as that is in use currently at least by the MOD.
I have been to 3 individual rail served MOD sites and had a look and while close they are not the same design, I would take pictures but in line with the secrets acts unless permitted I cant and well there was reasons I was visiting so understandable that I was not willing to "chance it".

So while doing this model in MOD green isn't prototypical, as with most hunslet designs they all look close enough so I will be making the one I get mean and green!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bornin1980something on February 16, 2017, 12:55:16 AM
^That's o.k. I believe many industrial models are obviously inauthentic, or even completely freelance! Indeed, this might be more like the other Hunslets than some early models were like their intended prototypes.

Ben A, do you know what will happen when some liveries are dropped due to low demand? Could I have   a second option on my pre-order in case my first option isn't produced?

Also, was the prototype actually outside the British loading gauge?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 16, 2017, 03:15:28 AM
Ben A, do you know what will happen when some liveries are dropped due to low demand? Could I have   a second option on my pre-order in case my first option isn't produced?

Also, was the prototype actually outside the British loading gauge?

At this stage there is no expectation that liveries will be dropped though obviously we will review that as orders and development progress.

Definitely well within UK loading gauge.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 16, 2017, 08:26:53 AM
Hi All

So while doing this model in MOD green isn't prototypical, as with most hunslet designs they all look close enough so I will be making the one I get mean and green!

Acko, can you confirm that the Hunslets you saw were in this / similar green even if the loco was maybe not quite the same?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zopadooper on February 16, 2017, 08:33:46 AM
As Treasurer of the Society I can confirm that we have budgeted to produce at least the minimum order quantity of all liveries.  We will only drop a model if there is clearly little or no interest in it.

Order forms will be available in the next journal and will appear on our website at the same time.

In the event of a livery being withdrawn because of minimal demand we have the technology to contact those members before final numbers are ordered, to ensure that a second choice can be provided.

Treasurer
N Gauge Society
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: acko22 on February 16, 2017, 08:54:39 AM
Acko, can you confirm that the Hunslets you saw were in this / similar green even if the loco was maybe not quite the same?

There was 3 that I got to look at that were in "OLIVE GREEN" although I have feeling that they won't remain in that colour for very long they looked tired and the MOD is looking to out source logistical duties to contractors.

On that note I can say as its been in the news already Marchwood Military port is now been ran by a private company as part of a public - private contract and one of the shunters that needs TLC has gone away and will be repainted into corporate colours for that company, don't ask me who I have no idea of the top of my head.

I know from passing and seeing it the Shunter that WAS at Lugerhall was white and blue but I haven't seen it for a while so not sure if its there any more, although with the expected increase traffic to Lugershall I would be surprised if its not there anymore.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bornin1980something on February 16, 2017, 10:16:16 AM
Might I ask again, does anyone know if preserved examples have ever hauled passengers?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 16, 2017, 10:19:49 AM
Acko, can you confirm that the Hunslets you saw were in this / similar green even if the loco was maybe not quite the same?

There was 3 that I got to look at that were in "OLIVE GREEN" although I have feeling that they won't remain in that colour for very long they looked tired and the MOD is looking to out source logistical duties to contractors.

On that note I can say as its been in the news already Marchwood Military port is now been ran by a private company as part of a public - private contract and one of the shunters that needs TLC has gone away and will be repainted into corporate colours for that company, don't ask me who I have no idea of the top of my head.

I know from passing and seeing it the Shunter that WAS at Lugerhall was white and blue but I haven't seen it for a while so not sure if its there any more, although with the expected increase traffic to Lugershall I would be surprised if its not there anymore.

That's great news, thanks for your input! So the olive green is good for military stuff and coal traffic which suits me! I'm not a particular fan of the prototype but wanted to get whatever the anniversary RTR was going to be and now they're producing this livery I have an excuse!

I think the NGS should be commended for the number of liveries they're now producing, I'm sure they'll be many happy people. They're certainly fulfilling one of their aims of producing something with wide appeal that the big boys were unlikely to produce.
Look forward to ordering.
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ollie3440 on February 16, 2017, 07:48:34 PM
Really looking forward to these. A BP Green one is a must as well as a Green NCB most likely. Currently debating whether I can stretch funds to afford one of each one! Seems a shame to pass up on an opportunity to own such a unique model.

Cheers

Ollie
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on February 17, 2017, 12:50:03 AM
Hello all,

Obviously if you are accurately modelling a particular location at a particular time then you will have an idea of the loco roster you need and if a certain Hunslet was a part of that you may need to do some renumbering or repainting.

But if you're intended industry/preserved railway/exchange sidings etc are fictional,  or plausible "what-ifs'" or just rule 1 then you can choose pretty any livery you want.

Harry Needle currently owns NCB green 503, the NCB maroon one, and the one in HNRC livery.  RMS locotec operates 3 I think, and there are or have been preserved examples in green, maroon, BP, RfD and (I think) yellow.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 17, 2017, 01:29:05 PM
Corus or whatever it is now called (Tata or British Steel again) still have them in action (though I think repainted from BSC Yellow to Corus Yellow/Silver).

The Port of Workington pair are still in use as is the Caledonian Paper example (which was the last one built).

In fact when we were looking for one to measure and photograph we realised that there are more still in use than in preservation!

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on February 17, 2017, 01:31:56 PM
That's interesting. More likely to be preserved then perhaps?
They must be really useful little engines.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bornin1980something on February 17, 2017, 04:19:44 PM
Hey, I've got an idea; how about we book a ride behind one of these for the NGS 50th!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 17, 2017, 04:35:05 PM
The only preserved one in working order is the ex-BP one Louise at the Elsecar Railway. That is one of the ones we have crawled over.

Some photos here: https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukrail/albums/72157679752585825 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/ukrail/albums/72157679752585825) (includes a couple more run down examples at the National Coal Mining Museum).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bornin1980something on February 17, 2017, 05:39:20 PM
Have you contacted the Elsecar railway?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on February 18, 2017, 01:21:26 AM
Hey, I've got an idea; how about we book a ride behind one of these for the NGS 50th!
I would rather dine on the Bluebell Pullman train with the Stove R in Pullman livery.
That's the problem. Everyone has a different favourite idea. The logistics of getting the ideal train in working order in the right conditions etc etc are huge too.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on February 19, 2017, 06:47:48 PM
Have you contacted the Elsecar railway?

Hi Bornin1980

About what? The Elsecar Railway were kind enough to let us crawl all over their Hunslet last year (that is how we got the pictures I linked to!).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bornin1980something on February 19, 2017, 11:43:20 PM
About what I suggested, a ride behind the prototype of our anniversary product for the anniversary, or maybe the product launch (their example actually built in 1967!). The railway doesn't seem to have much booked for this year so far. That said, I'm aware it might be a bit small for a Society event, with just four Mk1 coaches.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ohlavache on February 24, 2017, 09:35:04 PM
Hello.
I have a question with regard to the red Esso version (NGSR0594).
Will the red be similar to the one of this other Hunslet ?

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2734/4136778404_f0521ed052_b.jpg)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/forest_pines/4136778404/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/forest_pines/4136778404/in/photostream/)

Thanks by advance for your help.
I'm hesitating between the different liveries.
Have a nice week-end.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on February 24, 2017, 11:36:04 PM
Hello.
I have a question with regard to the red Esso version (NGSR0594).
Will the red be similar to the one of this other Hunslet ?

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2734/4136778404_f0521ed052_b.jpg[/url])
[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/forest_pines/4136778404/in/photostream/[/url] ([url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/forest_pines/4136778404/in/photostream/[/url])

Thanks by advance for your help.
I'm hesitating between the different liveries.
Have a nice week-end.


Looks similar in this post:-

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36228.msg425431#msg425431 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36228.msg425431#msg425431)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on March 24, 2017, 04:34:07 PM
Just got the latest NGS journal and there is an impressive selection of 15 liveries to choose from. Now I have to try and make up my mind.  :hmmm:

Ben and Mike, out of interest, which liveries are topping the leader board at the moment?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ollie3440 on March 28, 2017, 12:46:55 PM
Afternoon all,

Well I'm just off to post my deposit form. I must be mad as I'm ordering all 16! Thank goodness this past payday was bonus month!


Cheers
Ollie
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on March 28, 2017, 12:54:40 PM
Afternoon all,

Well I'm just off to post my deposit form. I must be mad as I'm ordering all 16! Thank goodness this past payday was bonus month!


Cheers
Ollie

 :o

.....but I want to see THAT line-up picture (preferably on depot) when it happens!

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Steven B on March 28, 2017, 01:22:47 PM
@red_death (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=246), @Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94),  would it be helpful to hold back on pre-ordering the Hunslet until the new NGS Shopkeeper is in post? Or is another committee member managing pre-orders?


Happy modelling.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on March 28, 2017, 01:27:49 PM

Hello all,

Thanks for the support.

At the moment I don't know which are the early leaders in terms of sales - it is very early days.

There is a mechanism in place for collating orders, so the change of shopkeeper is not a reason to hold off taking orders AFAIK.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on March 28, 2017, 02:15:31 PM
Hi Ben,

This will sound like a stupid question, and it probably is, but I'll ask anyway, rather than curse later.

The liveries depicted in the Journal with a light on the cab roof are the ones that will have a flashing light, presumably?

(Yes, I'm a child at heart - flashing lights are good!  ::))
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Byegad on March 28, 2017, 03:13:54 PM
I hope so! I ordered the first NCB one which doesn't appear to have a flasher and the Harbour one in blue with (I hope) flashy light!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 29, 2017, 09:22:32 PM
Hi Ben,

This will sound like a stupid question, and it probably is, but I'll ask anyway, rather than curse later.

The liveries depicted in the Journal with a light on the cab roof are the ones that will have a flashing light, presumably?

(Yes, I'm a child at heart - flashing lights are good!  ::))

It may sound stupid to some, but my unobservant eyes hadn't noticed that some have the roof light and others don't! I'm very glad you pointed it out as I can only justify ordering one at present and that has made my choice a little easier :) (I'm 95% sure now that I'll be having either 6685 'Big John' or 8976 'Port of Workington.')

 :thankyousign:

Philip

And of course thanks to Ben and Colin and all those involved with production and development!!!!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on March 29, 2017, 09:34:25 PM
I am still agonising between HNRC and Triple Grey. HNRC having a flashing light (?) and triple grey apparently not isn't actually a great help.

I am not sure how I feel about the light. I suppose if it could be switched on / off on DC that might help?

Arg

Nicer problems to have.....

Skyline2uk

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jrb on March 29, 2017, 10:38:47 PM
Is it really silly that from day 1 I wanted the Esso red (to go with my class B tanks) but I'm now thinking of ordering a second one just because I want one with a flashing light? :-[
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: REGP on March 29, 2017, 11:19:24 PM
Is it really silly that from day 1 I wanted the Esso red (to go with my class B tanks) but I'm now thinking of ordering a second one just because I want one with a flashing light? :-[

I know the feeling.

Ray
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 29, 2017, 11:20:20 PM
I have ordered the Esso and the British Steel yellow (with flashing lights) as i always fancied the Walthers Blast Furnace, coke ovens and rolling mill kits for a grand diorama and Shapeways do the molten steel boats for it to push around.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on March 30, 2017, 12:09:53 AM

Hello all,

The diagrams are illustrative and not finished livery drawings.

They *should* tally with which model will have the light and whcih will not, but I would recommend customers for whom this is a deal-breaker should consider  checking photographs.  There are plenty on flickr, smugmug and elsewhere.

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on March 30, 2017, 12:36:19 AM
The current NGS journal has a full page spread of all the livery variations.

Any chance of posting it here??

Is Graham Hedges still a member??

NickR
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Sprintex on March 30, 2017, 08:33:44 AM
The current NGS journal has a full page spread of all the livery variations.

Any chance of posting it here??

I would think there would be copyright issues with that?

Quote
Is Graham Hedges still a member??

Don't think he's been a member on here for a long time.


Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PaulCheffus on March 30, 2017, 09:29:46 AM
Hi

Freely available on the society website
http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=hunslet-industrial-shunter (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=hunslet-industrial-shunter)

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on March 30, 2017, 09:32:53 AM
The one page image in current ngs mag is a great summary - more pics=more publicity = more members??

NickR ( and I'm NOT. On commission!)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on March 30, 2017, 09:44:58 AM
Look here for more Shunter info.

http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?page_id=566 (http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?page_id=566)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on March 30, 2017, 10:02:22 AM

Hello all,

The diagrams are illustrative and not finished livery drawings.


They *should* tally with which model will have the light and whcih will not,

Ah, so it wasn't a stupid question!

but I would recommend customers for whom this is a deal-breaker should consider  checking photographs.  There are plenty on flickr, smugmug and elsewhere.

@Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94) , with the greatest of respect, isn't this the wrong way round? Partly because it generates work for a lot of people that need only be done once, by whoever is finalising the liveries. And partly because it still leaves us uncertain, as there can never be a guarantee that whatever inference we draw from our Flickr searches, or whatever, is the same as the decision made by whoever signs off the designs for production.

From what's on this thread, I'm obviously not the only one interested in the feature. Surely if the NGS is going to offer a flashing light it's not unreasonable that it gives a bit of certainty to those of us about to put our money down?

Just sayin' ...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 30, 2017, 10:08:32 AM
I think that we all secretly want one with a flashing light, not that I am suggesting we are all closet flashers you understand.  :D

Would it be possible to make it able to be upgraded, even if it was two solder pads and a mark on the inside of the body where to drill.  8)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Sprintex on March 30, 2017, 11:58:59 AM
I think that we all secretly want one with a flashing light,


Why WOULDN'T you?? ;)



:)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on March 30, 2017, 12:06:39 PM
I'll raise you



Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on March 30, 2017, 12:10:08 PM
I think that we all secretly want one with a flashing light,


Why WOULDN'T you?? ;)



:)


You know I very nearly tagged you @Sprintex (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=583) saying "didn't you make a shunter with a flashing light?"

Good to know I didn't imaging that....

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on March 30, 2017, 01:39:04 PM

Hello all,

The diagrams are illustrative and not finished livery drawings.


They *should* tally with which model will have the light and whcih will not,

Ah, so it wasn't a stupid question!

but I would recommend customers for whom this is a deal-breaker should consider  checking photographs.  There are plenty on flickr, smugmug and elsewhere.

@Ben A ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94[/url]) , with the greatest of respect, isn't this the wrong way round? Partly because it generates work for a lot of people that need only be done once, by whoever is finalising the liveries. And partly because it still leaves us uncertain, as there can never be a guarantee that whatever inference we draw from our Flickr searches, or whatever, is the same as the decision made by whoever signs off the designs for production.

From what's on this thread, I'm obviously not the only one interested in the feature. Surely if the NGS is going to offer a flashing light it's not unreasonable that it gives a bit of certainty to those of us about to put our money down?

Just sayin' ...


Hi Nick,

Is it "work"?  When I posted I was imagining that members would find looking at photos of the real thing, and then seeing whether it has got the light, part of the enjoyment of working out which model to buy.

Besides, none of us is perfect and having lots of people check is far more likely to show up any mistakes.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on March 30, 2017, 02:01:13 PM
the Hunslett livery Gallery (Courtesy @Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94) & NGS Journal) - he may have a higher definition replacement next week

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/941-300317140002.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=50469)

the following SEEM to have orange beacons

3,7,8,9,10,11,13,14,15
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 30, 2017, 02:07:57 PM
I think what Ben is saying is that the illustrative photos show them on the ones which are in theory to have them, ATM, based on research (i.e. They did go and find pictures). If they have made a mistake in the designs and incorrectly assigned a light (or vice versa), then members will likely write to correct them and they will change it in the interest of accuracy (up until a point). I think what he was suggesting is that, if the light is a major selling point to you, double check pictures of the prototype to ensure there is no chance of it being 'corrected' and removed at a later design stage. :)

On that note, can someone point me to a picture of Big John? I can't seem to turn up a photo of him and I want to make sure I like the livery better than the Port of Workington model. :)

Philip
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on March 30, 2017, 02:08:04 PM

Hello all,

The diagrams are illustrative and not finished livery drawings.


They *should* tally with which model will have the light and whcih will not,

Ah, so it wasn't a stupid question!

but I would recommend customers for whom this is a deal-breaker should consider  checking photographs.  There are plenty on flickr, smugmug and elsewhere.

@Ben A ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94[/url]) , with the greatest of respect, isn't this the wrong way round? Partly because it generates work for a lot of people that need only be done once, by whoever is finalising the liveries. And partly because it still leaves us uncertain, as there can never be a guarantee that whatever inference we draw from our Flickr searches, or whatever, is the same as the decision made by whoever signs off the designs for production.

From what's on this thread, I'm obviously not the only one interested in the feature. Surely if the NGS is going to offer a flashing light it's not unreasonable that it gives a bit of certainty to those of us about to put our money down?

Just sayin' ...


Hi Nick,

Is it "work"?  When I posted I was imagining that members would find looking at photos of the real thing, and then seeing whether it has got the light, part of the enjoyment of working out which model to buy.

Besides, none of us is perfect and having lots of people check is far more likely to show up any mistakes.

Cheers

Ben A.


I have no particular interest in diesels.

I have however ordered two Hunslet shunters, as it's something different that's not available elsewhere and it's a good way of supporting the society.

I've ordered the olive green one and the "Big John (?)" one. Reason, I fancy a MOD shunter and  one with a flashing light. If they both arrive without a flashing light, I shan't be happy. Am I likely to demand a refund? Possibly, possibly not. Have I looked at pictures of the prototype? No. Why? I'm not that interested in diesels. If there is no clarification then the society leaves itself wide open to claims of mis-selling and there is likely to be a large problem with people claiming this. If you order a Jubilee class online in Crimson (as that's what's in the picture) and it arrives in BR green, you'd send it back. You don't go running off to the Severn Valley to clarify what colour the prototype is. This is the same issue.

I would respectfully suggest that the "livery" issues are clarified as soon as is practicably possible to avoid a potentially huge amount of hassle, bad feeling and unnecessary cost.

I really don't want this project to cause anyone any unnecessary agro, there's a lot of work gone in already and I'd hate to see people distressed because of a simple issue that shouldn't really exist.

Michael.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 30, 2017, 02:21:37 PM
I really don't want this project to cause anyone any unnecessary agro, there's a lot of work gone in already and I'd hate to see people distressed because of a simple issue that shouldn't really exist.

Michael.

I thought that Ben's suggestion for the rest of us to trawl the net will meet your requirement. But you will have to wait for it to be completed. I cannot see how the Society can suddenly "magic up" the information if there is something different from what is published and what their research has found so far, if no-one knows that photo exists. The day after they finalise the liveries someone will find the photo-shopped Hendon Police School shunter with a flashing blue light. All the emergency vehicle collectors will want one. Then where will we be?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 30, 2017, 02:26:31 PM
I think people are getting wound up a little. The announcements in the journal make clear that final designs will be revealed after CAD drawings are received and does not promise flashing lights, but says "We are also planning to feature some prototype-specific details such as a working flashing amber warning light on the roof for some models..." This is not an unbreakable promise that every livery sample drawing is a 100% accurate depiction of what the final product will be. Moreover, no one has said there is a livery issue. Ben has simply said that, as released, the plans may contain an error to be fixed (a light added or removed). Obviously lots of research has gone in and the lights have appeared on pictures between the 1/17 and 2/17 journals, meaning they are a new addition, which has been researched (since they didn't appear on every model). I don't think anyone is going to sue the society for deciding to make the model more accurate than their initial release drawings if they discover a discrepancy between their plans and the actual livery. Unless someone has a specific example of one of the liveries including a light it isn't supposed to, or vice-verse, I don't see any reason for complaints about the way the liveries are being handled.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PaulCheffus on March 30, 2017, 02:28:03 PM
Hi

The British Steel version 7543 (note the number should be 403 not 404 as shown in the artwork) has a flashing light.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/32127242204/in/photolist-S77gVF-R6xfLT-nNN4gJ-S8jwSE-RThhkZ-S2kwJU-T2rnFg-QWYvP3-nii4ck-RRGXsG-rcX6Kw-RDH5Hy-ftPmfp-9VEdHK-df9GCY-S5a1DC-rpSkBP-9rRmGh-a8Zi5L-f45eXp-cokwhj-bTP2QK-a8Mj35-9siVrJ-gJd4BB-HYMs1K-nWQgR1-nJat9L-prBDhT-q5CpQZ-RQFoZJ-HczY2x-HKdj2B-9se9LL-SmHBq2-ei4rni-sroEqB-rSnBMD-pcrpn9-nHzope-gaTbrt-r5MSzG-9tfGcx-pkMARp-cqw941-ffYiwA-ddPd2V-qeicWh-db1dXd-a8ybLK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/75784477@N08/32127242204/in/photolist-S77gVF-R6xfLT-nNN4gJ-S8jwSE-RThhkZ-S2kwJU-T2rnFg-QWYvP3-nii4ck-RRGXsG-rcX6Kw-RDH5Hy-ftPmfp-9VEdHK-df9GCY-S5a1DC-rpSkBP-9rRmGh-a8Zi5L-f45eXp-cokwhj-bTP2QK-a8Mj35-9siVrJ-gJd4BB-HYMs1K-nWQgR1-nJat9L-prBDhT-q5CpQZ-RQFoZJ-HczY2x-HKdj2B-9se9LL-SmHBq2-ei4rni-sroEqB-rSnBMD-pcrpn9-nHzope-gaTbrt-r5MSzG-9tfGcx-pkMARp-cqw941-ffYiwA-ddPd2V-qeicWh-db1dXd-a8ybLK)


https://www.flickr.com/photos/migrandadworabutcha/16679020201/in/photolist-S77gVF-R6xfLT-nNN4gJ-S8jwSE-RThhkZ-S2kwJU-T2rnFg-QWYvP3-nii4ck-RRGXsG-rcX6Kw-RDH5Hy-ftPmfp-9VEdHK-df9GCY-S5a1DC-rpSkBP-9rRmGh-a8Zi5L-f45eXp-cokwhj-bTP2QK-a8Mj35-9siVrJ-gJd4BB-HYMs1K-nWQgR1-nJat9L-prBDhT-q5CpQZ-RQFoZJ-HczY2x-HKdj2B-9se9LL-SmHBq2-ei4rni-sroEqB-rSnBMD-pcrpn9-nHzope-gaTbrt-r5MSzG-9tfGcx-pkMARp-cqw941-ffYiwA-ddPd2V-qeicWh-db1dXd-a8ybLK (https://www.flickr.com/photos/migrandadworabutcha/16679020201/in/photolist-S77gVF-R6xfLT-nNN4gJ-S8jwSE-RThhkZ-S2kwJU-T2rnFg-QWYvP3-nii4ck-RRGXsG-rcX6Kw-RDH5Hy-ftPmfp-9VEdHK-df9GCY-S5a1DC-rpSkBP-9rRmGh-a8Zi5L-f45eXp-cokwhj-bTP2QK-a8Mj35-9siVrJ-gJd4BB-HYMs1K-nWQgR1-nJat9L-prBDhT-q5CpQZ-RQFoZJ-HczY2x-HKdj2B-9se9LL-SmHBq2-ei4rni-sroEqB-rSnBMD-pcrpn9-nHzope-gaTbrt-r5MSzG-9tfGcx-pkMARp-cqw941-ffYiwA-ddPd2V-qeicWh-db1dXd-a8ybLK)

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on March 30, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
As Ben said, if the flashing light is a deal breaker then wait to order until the design and liveries are confirmed! We are not confirming that every livery will definitely go ahead at the moment so it is all a bit of a moot point. Nor can we confirm exactly every feature yet as it really depends on the development and what we can fit in - the first priority is that it must run well (a challenge in itself for such a small loco).

Paul has already spotted a mismatch between the works number and company number of the BSC shunter (there were more BSC liveried shunters - at least 401, 403 and 404 IIRC).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on March 30, 2017, 02:55:45 PM
Crikey - look what a stir I caused!


Is it "work"?  When I posted I was imagining that members would find looking at photos of the real thing, and then seeing whether it has got the light, part of the enjoyment of working out which model to buy.
Hi Ben,

Well, "work" is perhaps too strong a word, let's call it another task on the pile that will keep me from working on the layout...  And there are enough of those already! :)

No offence meant, but I'm not a rivet-counter. I'd like the Hunslet to run in my fictitious quarry alongside my fictitious preserved railway. There's going to be no "right" livery for that. I'm just going to choose something I fancy from whatever you're offering. I have the yellow NCB 04, so I suppose a yellow one would at least allow for the fiction of a house livery. But I bottled out of fitting a flashing light to the 04 when I chipped it, so I'd like to have one this time. If flashing lights never come to pass at all, that's not a deal breaker as such, but I'm going to be irritated if I erroneously order one "without" when there are ones available "with".

As Ben said, if the flashing light is a deal breaker then wait to order until the design and liveries are confirmed! We are not confirming that every livery will definitely go ahead at the moment so it is all a bit of a moot point.]

I read that to mean that liveries wouldn't go ahead if there wasn't enough demand to justify them. Fine, indeed more than highly desirable! I assumed I'd then have a chance to reorder if my chosen livery was a goner.

I hadn't read it to mean that the liveries being shown weren't of themselves individually finalised. I also hadn't realised that the feature set wasn't final. My bad.

I'm quite happy to wait in that case. Will we reach that position (confirmation of the feature set) before the 31st December?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Carmont on March 30, 2017, 03:00:52 PM

Hello all,

The diagrams are illustrative and not finished livery drawings.


They *should* tally with which model will have the light and whcih will not,

Ah, so it wasn't a stupid question!

but I would recommend customers for whom this is a deal-breaker should consider  checking photographs.  There are plenty on flickr, smugmug and elsewhere.

@Ben A ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94[/url]) , with the greatest of respect, isn't this the wrong way round? Partly because it generates work for a lot of people that need only be done once, by whoever is finalising the liveries. And partly because it still leaves us uncertain, as there can never be a guarantee that whatever inference we draw from our Flickr searches, or whatever, is the same as the decision made by whoever signs off the designs for production.

From what's on this thread, I'm obviously not the only one interested in the feature. Surely if the NGS is going to offer a flashing light it's not unreasonable that it gives a bit of certainty to those of us about to put our money down?

Just sayin' ...


Hi Nick,

Is it "work"?  When I posted I was imagining that members would find looking at photos of the real thing, and then seeing whether it has got the light, part of the enjoyment of working out which model to buy.

Besides, none of us is perfect and having lots of people check is far more likely to show up any mistakes.

Cheers

Ben A.


I agree with the above.

After all, this is a society project. I firmly believe that the ideal of such a society, ,and a modelling one at that, is for it's members to work together for the benefit of the society.

So, if there are individuals out there who have the time, the ability and the interest to provide information that may help the project, then surely it is right that the society asks for that help?

Regardless, presumably when the design and livery(ies) are frozen, we will all know exactly which models have what features and we can decide, as individuals, if we wish to proceed with our particular purchase?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on March 30, 2017, 03:14:56 PM
Big John has definitely got a flashing light in that photo.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on March 30, 2017, 03:30:18 PM
Sorry to pick up on this, do I take it that there is a risk that the models may not have a decoder socket if there is no space?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on March 30, 2017, 03:55:54 PM
Sorry to pick up on this, do I take it that there is a risk that the models may not have a decoder socket if there is no space?

Of course there is a risk but please be sensible when assessing that risk - again if ANY feature is a deal breaker then you might prefer to wait before ordering.

We have specified DCC as we believe there should be space, but as I have said repeatedly the priority has to be that it runs well. There is little point in putting a decoder in to something that won't work.

Farish didn't fit a socket in any of the 03/04/08 (a mistake in my view) for the same reasons.

The designers here and in China are experienced and we believe we have some innovative ideas that will work, but until the CAD is complete we won't know how practical things are. Similarly with the best will in the world even if the CAD is OK, until you actually start testing physical models you don't know whether you will have to make adjustments.

Nick - correct. Particular liveries may not go ahead if they are stinkers in terms of sales and as usual with NGS projects members will have the option of picking a different livery if they wish.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N-Gauge-US on March 30, 2017, 04:04:45 PM
I think people are getting wound up a little. The announcements in the journal make clear that final designs will be revealed after CAD drawings are received and does not promise flashing lights, but says "We are also planning to feature some prototype-specific details such as a working flashing amber warning light on the roof for some models..." This is not an unbreakable promise that every livery sample drawing is a 100% accurate depiction of what the final product will be. Moreover, no one has said there is a livery issue. Ben has simply said that, as released, the plans may contain an error to be fixed (a light added or removed). Obviously lots of research has gone in and the lights have appeared on pictures between the 1/17 and 2/17 journals, meaning they are a new addition, which has been researched (since they didn't appear on every model). I don't think anyone is going to sue the society for deciding to make the model more accurate than their initial release drawings if they discover a discrepancy between their plans and the actual livery. Unless someone has a specific example of one of the liveries including a light it isn't supposed to, or vice-verse, I don't see any reason for complaints about the way the liveries are being handled.


Another picture of Big John

([url]http://farm4.staticflickr.com//3487//3806860499_20501cd0f4_o.jpg[/url])

 :o Love it! Thanks very much for this and for the link above; I'm definitely going for Big John now! He will be my first diesel (steam fan through and through!), but as I'm also planning a(nother) heritage railway, he will be well at home there, sorting coaches and showing off his fine livery.  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on March 30, 2017, 04:33:29 PM
Sorry to pick up on this, do I take it that there is a risk that the models may not have a decoder socket if there is no space?

Of course there is a risk but please be sensible when assessing that risk - again if ANY feature is a deal breaker then you might prefer to wait before ordering.

We have specified DCC as we believe there should be space, but as I have said repeatedly the priority has to be that it runs well. There is little point in putting a decoder in to something that won't work.

Farish didn't fit a socket in any of the 03/04/08 (a mistake in my view) for the same reasons.
Ah! I'm really glad I started this now. No DCC socket is a deal breaker for me. Having chipped all but one of my Poole-era locos and at least two non-socketed ones besides, I've more or less decided to give it a rest now and only buy DCC Ready locos. I certainly don't want to take on chipping a small loco that you've already reluctantly decided doesn't have space for a chip...

I will hold off until at least the DCC status is clarified. Do you have a likely timeframe, Mike? I'd like to pre-order, partly for the fiver, but also to show support.

Also, you may want to revisit the wording on the web page. It says:

Model specifications will include:  0-6-0 chassis; low gearing for smooth running; wheels to NMRA standards; DCC ready; NEM coupler sockets.  We are also planning to feature some prototype-specific details such as a working flashing amber warning light on the roof for some models, and additional bonnet details and handrail variations where appropriate.

I appreciate the ambiguity over the lights, although it could be clearer IMHO, but the DCC Ready nature of the model isn't ambiguous at all. I hadn't realised that that was still to be resolved.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railbank on March 30, 2017, 04:46:32 PM
hi fellow n-gaugers

to add to the identity of the British Steel locomotive fleet at Workington Works;

Loco 402 was registered as April1977 serial no. 7409
Loco 403 was registered as September 1978 serial no. 7543
Loco 404 was registered as July 1980 serial no. 8978

In addition to the Hunslets BSTP also had a fleet of smaller locomotives in the 300 series - 305, 309, 310, 311 and 314 (all excluding 305 being ex- Llanwern Works transfers).

From 1989 to 2000 I was an engineer at the works, starting in the engineering workshops where the loco, rail crane and wagon fleet was maintained, the info is from my copy of the plant ledger - now sadly all gone - but very happy memories of working there.

We had dozens of internal user bolster wagons and runners some dating from WW1 most heavily modified to transfer, or hold stocks of rail, either for further finishing or transfer to the Port of Workington for export - so you can probably guess which ones I am going to reserve.

Good to see the N Gauge Society getting back on track with the kits and now potentially a locomotive - happy days.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on March 30, 2017, 05:01:33 PM
Sorry to pick up on this, do I take it that there is a risk that the models may not have a decoder socket if there is no space?

Of course there is a risk but please be sensible when assessing that risk - again if ANY feature is a deal breaker then you might prefer to wait before ordering.

We have specified DCC as we believe there should be space, but as I have said repeatedly the priority has to be that it runs well. There is little point in putting a decoder in to something that won't work.

Farish didn't fit a socket in any of the 03/04/08 (a mistake in my view) for the same reasons.
Ah! I'm really glad I started this now. No DCC socket is a deal breaker for me. Having chipped all but one of my Poole-era locos and at least two non-socketed ones besides, I've more or less decided to give it a rest now and only buy DCC Ready locos. I certainly don't want to take on chipping a small loco that you've already reluctantly decided doesn't have space for a chip...

I will hold off until at least the DCC status is clarified. Do you have a likely timeframe, Mike? I'd like to pre-order, partly for the fiver, but also to show support.

Also, you may want to revisit the wording on the web page. It says:

Model specifications will include:  0-6-0 chassis; low gearing for smooth running; wheels to NMRA standards; DCC ready; NEM coupler sockets.  We are also planning to feature some prototype-specific details such as a working flashing amber warning light on the roof for some models, and additional bonnet details and handrail variations where appropriate.

I appreciate the ambiguity over the lights, although it could be clearer IMHO, but the DCC Ready nature of the model isn't ambiguous at all. I hadn't realised that that was still to be resolved.

Alas too late for me, I've already ordered two because it said it "Will be DCC ready".

Let's hope it fits or I shall have an ornate pair of quite pricey bookends.

 :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 30, 2017, 05:31:26 PM
OK

I have sucked the drawing into CAD and scaled it.  It looks as if there will be a maximum space inside the cab of 10mm by 12mm by 4mm.

This means no pins at the end of a decoder and there is not the space for a right angle pin type either. 

Its going to have to be a NEXT18 and the only one that would fit currently available is the LOKPILOT MICRO V4 WITH NEXT18 Size - 10.5 x 8.1 x 2.8 (mm).

So from my point of view my ones will be DCC even if they are not supplied DCC ready.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on March 30, 2017, 06:10:35 PM
Sorry folks - I'm not sure how it can be much clearer. We have set out our specifications, but please don't forget that this is the start of the development process - normally you see the end of the development process before you see the full final specs.

If you feel any of the features (or liveries) is a deal breaker then I have suggested you wait (and no we can't put a timescale on when things will be finalised - I've set out the crucial development points (CAD and first samples)).

If when the liveries or features are all finalised and something is not the same as what you signed up for then please ask for a refund.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PLD on March 30, 2017, 06:12:53 PM
If you order a Jubilee class online in Crimson (as that's what's in the picture) and it arrives in BR green, you'd send it back. You don't go running off to the Severn Valley to clarify what colour the prototype is. This is the same issue.

I would respectfully suggest that the "livery" issues are clarified as soon as is practicably possible to avoid a potentially huge amount of hassle, bad feeling and unnecessary cost.

I really don't want this project to cause anyone any unnecessary agro, there's a lot of work gone in already and I'd hate to see people distressed because of a simple issue that shouldn't really exist.

Michael.
what utter rubbish... It it nothing like ordering it in one livery and being sent a different one...  ::)

A much fairer analogy is that when you ordered your Crimson Jubilee the illustration had number in the wrong typeface, but on the final model you were sent it had the number in the correct typeface.

They're not proposing any risk of a completely different livery to that you ordered, only CORRECTIONS of small errors in detail to improve prototype fidelity...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on March 30, 2017, 06:37:15 PM
I have to admit when I saw the spec I was surprised that such a small loco would be DCC ready but I had assumed that before releasing details of the specification some kind of assessment of whether it would be technically feasible would be undertaken. In my own mind I had assumed a right angle chip in the cab but if that will not fit then what are the remaining options?

One might be to offer it DCC fitted with a suitably small chip hard wired in at manufacture to negate the need for a socket?

Having been ready to send an order for two off I am now inclined to wait. Like others not having DCC in the spec in some form is a deal breaker for me I'm afraid which would be a shame as I really want to support this project.

Conversely I couldn't care less about the flashing light as neither of my choices have the feature!

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PaulCheffus on March 30, 2017, 06:44:27 PM
Hi

Personally I'm not bother if it's not DCC ready as you can usually find the space to hardwire one. Only thing I would ask is that it is easy to isolate the motor.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on March 30, 2017, 06:46:25 PM
From my own point of view, I want an engine that is at least DCC ready but would be quite prepared to pay for an engine that is DCC fitted - and a flashing light would be nice. Whilst I would like to place an order now, I feel that I have to wait until the DCC question is finalised.   :beers:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 30, 2017, 06:50:00 PM
Hi

Personally I'm not bother if it's not DCC ready as you can usually find the space to hardwire one. Only thing I would ask is that it is easy to isolate the motor.

Cheers

Paul

Its almost certainly going to be a can motor so should be easy to isolate.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on March 30, 2017, 06:54:14 PM
before releasing details of the specification some kind of assessment of whether it would be technically feasible would be undertaken.

Like others not having DCC in the spec

I'm really sorry to keep banging on about this, but I want it to be clear:

- an assessment was done on technical feasiblity (and there is space)
- DCC ready is in the spec


All I'm saying is that we will not compromise the design and haulage if it turns out during the development that more weight is necessary. We don't anticipate it being an issue but we would rather be open with people at the outset. We firmly intend that the finalised design will be DCC ready.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on March 30, 2017, 07:33:52 PM
Got a nagging feeling I may have asked this already (but can't find any evidence):  did any of this design make it to the continent?   

Wondering if I could justify an undecorated one to be painted up for my fictitious german harbour.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on March 31, 2017, 01:10:06 PM
before releasing details of the specification some kind of assessment of whether it would be technically feasible would be undertaken.

Like others not having DCC in the spec

I'm really sorry to keep banging on about this, but I want it to be clear:

- an assessment was done on technical feasiblity (and there is space)
- DCC ready is in the spec


All I'm saying is that we will not compromise the design and haulage if it turns out during the development that more weight is necessary. We don't anticipate it being an issue but we would rather be open with people at the outset. We firmly intend that the finalised design will be DCC ready.

Cheers, Mike

Thanks Mike, that is very clear.

Might I suggest that as a back stop just in case the option of solder tabs is kept in reserve. Even I could manage to solder 4 wires.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on March 31, 2017, 01:19:13 PM
Roy.  You worry far to much...!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on March 31, 2017, 03:40:35 PM
Roy.  You worry far to much...!

It has been said Paul!!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zwilnik on April 04, 2017, 02:54:13 PM
Just pre-ordered a red ESSO one :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ohlavache on April 06, 2017, 04:02:23 PM
There is some pictures on this page

[url]http://www.railalbum.co.uk/industrial-railways/queenborough-locos-old-1.htm[/url] ([url]http://www.railalbum.co.uk/industrial-railways/queenborough-locos-old-1.htm[/url])


Another picture of Big John

([url]http://farm4.staticflickr.com//3487//3806860499_20501cd0f4_o.jpg[/url])


Many thanks for these pictures.
I have to pre-order one !  :doh: :D
I'll try to do so before Easter.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NeMo on April 06, 2017, 04:21:05 PM
Wondering if I could justify an undecorated one to be painted up for my fictitious german harbour.

Surely by definition, if fictitious, the answer is "yes" you can justify it! The genius of choosing an industrial design that was sold on the open market is that it would be easy to invent an industry in the UK or anywhere else that such shunters ended up working at.

Frankly, if anyone had said 30 years ago that Class 87s would be rushing about Bulgaria nobody would have believed it! Open access railways within the EU really do mean (almost) anything is possible!

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ScottishModeller on April 06, 2017, 04:30:48 PM
Wondering if I could justify an undecorated one to be painted up for my fictitious german harbour.
Open access railways within the EU really do mean (almost) anything is possible!

Cheers, NeMo
Hi NeMo,

Brexit will soon put a stop to that for the UK!

Thanks
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on April 06, 2017, 05:55:42 PM
Wondering if I could justify an undecorated one to be painted up for my fictitious german harbour.

Surely by definition, if fictitious, the answer is "yes" you can justify it!

True, but would be nice to know if this particular design did make it into Europe?   

It's an interesting project.  Shame my NGS membership lapsed several years ago.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on April 06, 2017, 06:05:10 PM
Found one in Thailand.

http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/main-line-narrow-gauge-in-thailand.38030/page-2 (http://www.trainboard.com/highball/index.php?threads/main-line-narrow-gauge-in-thailand.38030/page-2)

You need to scroll right down the page.

I am sure an internet image search for each of the countries in Europe will find one. Like this one in Slovakia.

(http://leedsengine.info/leeds/images/Hunslet%20Engine/Standard%20Gauge%20Loco/Diesel/he%206866%20slovnaft%20bratislava%202009%20np.jpg)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on April 08, 2017, 03:41:56 PM
What a dangerous place the NGS stand at Trainwest has been for me today....

Deposit paid for HNRC Orange one, but I keep looking at the Triple Grey also....

Bit of a backlog of stuff on order for me now.

Slyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 70000 on April 08, 2017, 05:34:50 PM
A bit more far flung than Europe, three of the 0-4-0 variety made it to Pacific Grain Elevators in Vancouver, British Columbia..........

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/50/5878-080417173002.jpeg)

Seen in 2002, they have gone now and I'm not sure if the elevator complex still exists either (I've not been there since).
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: LeftToMyOwnDevices on April 09, 2017, 05:27:22 PM
What a dangerous place the NGS stand at Trainwest has been for me today....

Deposit paid for HNRC Orange one, but I keep looking at the Triple Grey also....

Bit of a backlog of stuff on order for me now.

Slyline2uk

...and you do have my most sincere sympathies... :(

At the Ally Pally show, I was on the MRC's children's layout, so was often to be found gazing longingly :heart2: over to the NGS Stand, which was directly opposite us.

On the Sunday, I managed to clear out the NGS stand's remaining stocks (6) of the blue Cargowaggon (40th Anniversary Edition). These 'six of the best' go very nicely with the half-dozen Tiphook livery Dapol Telescopic Hood Wagons that I got on the Saturday, on special offer, off the Dapol stand.

The real mystery for me was that, when I finally left the NGS stand on the Sunday, I discovered that I had also paid a deposit for three of the shunters...! :goggleeyes:

I think that chap Mirlees (?) is the NGS answer to 'Arkwright' in Open All Hours. :D If you remember how many of his customers went into that shop, with no intention of buying anything, but would inexplicably leave with handfuls of stuff... Yup, that's me now.

But ever-so-slightly more seriously, I do applaud his salesmanship; it is in the very real interests of the NGS. I do mean that most sincerely folks.

The ones I've chosen are for purely sentimental reasons:

I do hope the project succeeds; and I have every confidence that it will.

Having already paid for four 11-car Pendolinos; deposits on four 92s; more KFAs that I can recall, etc., I do trust the pedigree of those behind the NGS Shunter. I'm either a fool being parted with his money - or perhaps I believe in putting my money where my mouth is...
 :NGaugersRule:
Charles.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: free debt man on April 11, 2017, 03:28:17 PM
Thanks for the kind words. Myself and Mirrlees (Tim) are glad of the opportunity of taking money from you at the stand. Quite rightly the expense of maintaining the stand and taking it to shows has to be justified to the NGS Management and these comments on the forum are very much appreciated in helping us to do so (and mean we can go out to talk to more members and sell them more stuff - especially the kits we are making ready). :thankyousign:
Now you can have your topic back.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N-Gauge-US on April 11, 2017, 10:33:46 PM
Is there a date in mind as the cut-off for any liveries to be jettisoned? I know preorders through Dec 1 are eligible for the 5£ discount, but I want to place my order earlier if it might impact the liveries produced. On the flip side, I have so many things in my 'to buy' list, that I'd rather wait until November to place the order if it won't make any difference to the production.

Thanks in advance and thank you to all those at the NGS working to make this project a reality :)

Philip
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on April 11, 2017, 10:55:51 PM
I think any decision on which (if any) to cull will likely be made at or about the discount cut-off date.

EDIT
And if your chosen livery is culled, I think you'll have the option to transfer that order to a livery that is proceeding or take a refund.
/EDIT
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on April 16, 2017, 11:02:37 AM
Realised resistance is futile.

I have given in and ordered two, a red Esso one and a green BP one. I hope these two liveries make the cut, especially the red one.

Also ordered a couple of car flats - it would have been rude not to while I was online and ordering the locos...

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Cooper on April 16, 2017, 04:56:59 PM
Couldn't resist. Just ordered 5 at the York show!  :o
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on April 16, 2017, 06:52:07 PM
They could become quite addictive. The British industrial shunter is a completely untapped market in RTR N and with the track record of Colin Allbright as designer as well as all the livery choices I can understand it - it is bound to be popular.

I think Ollie said he had placed orders for all fifteen? I'm not sure I could go that far but conversely I'm not at all convinced I am finished at two...

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on April 16, 2017, 07:40:17 PM
Having read some of the above posts, I am feeling quite the miser, having only ordered one, (Caledonian blue),...............might have to have another look  :worried:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jrb on April 16, 2017, 07:58:11 PM
I had the pleasure of chatting to Ben Ando about these (and the Class B tankers) at the York show yesterday. I was likely to order at least two anyway, but that definitely sealed it & I'll be ordering several shortly (I was going to order them at the NGS stand, but it was busy so thought ordering online would be easier anyway).

It's very clever the way they're incorporating everything - it seems they can cram everything in & still leave the cab/window area completely clear!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on April 16, 2017, 08:36:13 PM
Dammit I want one!   

Unfortunately I'm not an NGS member - I used to be a member of the Worldwide group a few years ago, but it became one of those outlays that I couldn't justify any more.  Nothing against the society, I applaud what they do for the hobby.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on April 16, 2017, 08:39:05 PM
Ill sell one of mine on ebay for you when i get them!! Happy bidding :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on April 16, 2017, 08:46:40 PM
Ill sell one of mine on ebay for you when i get them!! Happy bidding :)

Do not forget to add the word 'Rare' somewhere in the description  ;D - that should push the price up!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on April 16, 2017, 11:08:35 PM
Ill sell one of mine on ebay for you when i get them!! Happy bidding :)

Do not forget to add the word 'Rare' somewhere in the description  ;D - that should push the price up!

Just don't add WOW! or L@@K  as that's guaranteed to make me bypass the listing altogether  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JonHarbour on April 18, 2017, 04:46:00 AM
Need to extract my digit and order. Can see the need for at least two - the Western NCB one (yay! Yellow flashing light!) and the Esso one to go with my Revolution Type B tankers.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JonHarbour on April 20, 2017, 01:04:01 AM
Order for two duly placed...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on April 20, 2017, 01:24:22 AM
2 ordered, NCB Yellow and Big John Blue, not sure how I am going to use them yet. Looks like a redesign of the layout has to occur.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 06, 2017, 07:19:08 PM
Hello all,

I have received CAD images showing progress on the forthcoming NGS Hunslet industrial shunter.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/94-060517124753-516281850.jpeg)

This image shows the basic three-quarter view of the model.  Please note that not all the external grille detail has been added yet and the handrails are missing.  My view is that the roof light may need to be slightly "beefed up" but of course when it's flashing it will probably appear larger than it is.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/94-060517124752-516271374.jpeg)

This view shows the underside of the model, and the enclosed mechanism.  The rectangular recesses inboard of each wheel are for the phosphor bronze bearing units, which are similar to those used on current Farish steam locos.

As previously said, these CAD drawings are at a very early stage and there is much work still to do before we can approve them ready for tooling.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on May 06, 2017, 09:32:41 PM
It's great to see things taking shape. Thanks for the update. I'm sure I'm not the only person who appreciates seeing some progress even at this early stage :)
 :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 06, 2017, 10:04:40 PM
Any news of the internal space for the DCC chip?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 07, 2017, 02:16:33 AM

With the revamped NGS site it would be nice to have this update (and others) published there for NGS members who don't visit forums. The NGS website should be the primary place for information, rather than members having to trawl forums to find it.

Hi Escafeld,

I received the CAD drawings overnight.  I sent them with suitable text to the NGS Webmaster immediately for addition to the website, but if they have not been added yet I suspect that is because she was probably at the NGS AGM today.

I am sure they will be on our website before too long.

Hi Snowwolflair,

The arrangement of the PCB has not yet been finalised, but we have specified that the models need to be suitable for both DC and DCC users.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on May 07, 2017, 02:54:32 PM
NExt-18 or NEM 6-pin??
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on May 07, 2017, 03:31:22 PM
Looking at available space, realistically I would think a 90 degree 6 pin decoder socket in the cab most likely, possibly providing for a decoder at or below window level, but I'm sure we will be told when the info is available.

Roy

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 07, 2017, 04:25:37 PM

Hello all,

The only chip we know of that will fit inside this model - while permitting the use of a flywheel too - is the CT Electronik DCX76.

But adding a DCC socket to the PCB, even for a chip this small, would encroach into the cab glazed area, and it seemed unfair that DC users should have the appearance of their model compromised in this way.

On the other hand, the stay-alive capacitor and flashing amber roof light requires some form of computer control whether operating on DC or DCC.

For these reasons, the models will be supplied with a PCB that incorporates a DCC chip.

This eliminates the need for a space-hungry DCC socket and also ensures that DC users get the same benefits and features of the model as DCC users.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 07, 2017, 04:29:52 PM
That's a very good idea, especially if the motor is not 12 volt as long as the chip has a good quality DC characteristic.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on May 07, 2017, 09:42:48 PM
I like the idea of the chip being built in, seems like you've thought of everything / everyone.

I was originally thinking I'd get the olive green to double as a military shunter but I prefer the idea of getting a NE version given my layout is based in Yorkshire. Anyway, after posing the dilemma of which one to get to my wife, and showing her the picture in the link below, she said go for the NCB Olive purely because of the working flashing light! So that's the one I've ordered.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-14569-0-58444000-1367971281.jpg (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_05_2013/post-14569-0-58444000-1367971281.jpg)

EDIT: I forgot to ask - does anyone know what the dome on the vertical panel on the left hand side of the loco, near the cab, is?
And, what are the four brackets for on the bottom corners of the loco, the things that stick out with holes in?
Just curious.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 07, 2017, 09:57:32 PM
I'm not awake tonight!  I have just realized the model will be DCC equipped for the advertised price.

That's saves the price of another loco......  OK which one to get.   :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 07, 2017, 10:04:37 PM
EDIT: I forgot to ask - does anyone know what the dome on the vertical panel on the left hand side of the loco, near the cab, is?
And, what are the four brackets for on the bottom corners of the loco, the things that stick out with holes in?
Just curious.

Hi Richard,

The dome is the engine breather, which on most locos is on the left side of the bonnet, and the brackets on the four corners are lifting points.  You will notice that neither of these details has been incorporated into the CAD yet!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on May 07, 2017, 10:05:26 PM
If the decoder is going to be built into the board and there's no possibility of a DC blanking plate then I'd rather have the option of an alternative complete board for straight DC included with the model. Even if that bumps the final price by a fiver or so.  Or maybe a dip switch to switch out the decoder? 

I don't run DCC in N at the moment (and not for the foreseeable future but you never know), but I do use feedback controllers which I know some decoders find confusing. 
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on May 07, 2017, 10:26:47 PM
If the decoder is going to be built into the board and there's no possibility of a DC blanking plate then I'd rather have the option of an alternative complete board for straight DC included with the model. Even if that bumps the final price by a fiver or so.  Or maybe a dip switch to switch out the decoder? 

I don't run DCC in N at the moment (and not for the foreseeable future but you never know), but I do use feedback controllers which I know some decoders find confusing.

Unless I misunderstand what Ben has said, I took his comments to mean that the DCC chip is integral to the running of the loco whether on DC or DCC, the lighting and "stay alive" presumably.

As such running on analogue would mean the chip reading and adapting to the DC supply not being switched out.

Perhaps Ben/Mike can clarify?

It's hard to please everybody but unless a lot of people run on DC feedback I do not know whether the cost of a replacement PCB with the loco to hardwire in place of the chip would be justified - how many would be likely to use it? 40? 50? at most 100 I'd have thought.

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: REGP on May 07, 2017, 10:29:00 PM

On the other hand, the stay-alive capacitor and flashing amber roof light requires some form of computer control whether operating on DC or DCC.

........also ensures that DC users get the same benefits and features of the model as DCC users.

As far I'm concerned that is a great idea, but would the chip only be fitted those locos with flashing lights or would all loco be so fitted?

Ray
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 07, 2017, 10:32:55 PM
Hi all,

Escafeld: I think the lights varied in size.  In this photo of one of the CEGB locos it looks a bit bigger: https://flic.kr/p/9T2mYi. I suspect we will settle for a compromise that looks about right to most of us!

Ntpntpntp and others: the models will all have the same PCB.  We have specified that it be protected electronically from issues caused by Relco units or older controllers.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on May 07, 2017, 11:11:34 PM
Unless I misunderstand what Ben has said, I took his comments to mean that the DCC chip is integral to the running of the loco whether on DC or DCC, the lighting and "stay alive" presumably.

Correct Roy.  We really wanted to incorporate the stay alive function as well as all the lighting functionality and the easiest way to do that given the limited space was to get a custom designed PCB incorporating everything we wanted which would function on DC or DCC. Subject to contract etc we have one of the most well-respected DCC manufacturers designing and providing the PCB. Obviously we will have to test the boards (as with all other components!) to ensure they do what we specified.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on May 07, 2017, 11:16:52 PM
Blimey!

This is getting to be quite an impressive effort. Let's hope it all goes to plan. Sounds a bit ground breaking.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on May 07, 2017, 11:35:49 PM
DCC, stay-alive and flywheel - fantastic! All you need now is DCC controlled couplers and this will be the ultimate N Gauge shunting engine.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Trainfish on May 08, 2017, 12:26:24 AM
I just ordered a British Steel one because I like the colour and the flashing light  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2017, 12:30:12 AM
Quote
We have specified that it be protected electronically from issues caused by Relco units or older controllers.

Now that is going to be a challenge, you can almost spot weld with a RELCO (almost)  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 08, 2017, 12:51:51 AM
Now that is going to be a challenge, you can almost spot weld with a RELCO (almost)  :D

Quite!  I think we felt that if it can resist a Relco it can resist anything.  Seriously though, we will only know if it can do this on testing.  It may be we recommend the loco is used without Relcos on the line.

Cheers

Ben
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on May 08, 2017, 09:28:24 AM
...the models will all have the same PCB.  We have specified that it be protected electronically from issues caused by Relco units or older controllers.

Ah yes, good point about Relco and similar HF circuit continuity boxes.  I presume constant lighting systems using HF might also be an issue (if anyone uses those?)

From a controller perspective, I'm thinking not so much about protection but more about how well the decoder handles pulsed DC power and recognizes it as DC not a digital signal.   I've used good old KPC controllers since the 80s with AMR controllers as backups. I've tried a few DCC and Trix digital fitted locos and generally they've responded ok, but would rather switch out / remove the decoder if possible.

Happy to help beta-test the PCB  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on May 08, 2017, 10:09:40 AM
I don't believe that any of the current N gauge manufacturers recommend using Feedback controllers with newer N gauge motors. 

One would presume that if you wish to use 30+ year old Feedback controller you should probably not order a Hunslet knowing that it has 21st century circuitry. 

I am sure the boxes will carry a suitable warning label to cover the NGS against feedback controller use.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2017, 10:59:00 AM
I don't believe that any of the current N gauge manufacturers recommend using Feedback controllers with newer N gauge motors. 

One would presume that if you wish to use 30+ year old Feedback controller you should probably not order a Hunslet knowing that it has 21st century circuitry. 

I am sure the boxes will carry a suitable warning label to cover the NGS against feedback controller use.

I think you are correct as the feedback controllers were designed to work with permanent magnet commutator motors.

Now if you want a recommendation for a DC controller that gives good DC and DCC (under DC) use a Morley controller.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on May 08, 2017, 12:22:17 PM
I don't believe that any of the current N gauge manufacturers recommend using Feedback controllers with newer N gauge motors. 

One would presume that if you wish to use 30+ year old Feedback controller you should probably not order a Hunslet knowing that it has 21st century circuitry. 


I have never had any problem at all using the KPC controllers with ANY of my Arnold/Fleischmann/Minitrix/Hobbytrain/Liliput (bachmann) and all sorts of other quality brands, ranging from stuff made in the 60s right up to present day.  Plenty of "21st century technology" in the recent models, including coreless motors.  In that regard using feedback controllers is a non-issue. 

DCC decoders allegedly don't respond so well to certain DC controllers, I've yet to see it personally but I can understand how it could be a problem sensing and recognising the input.  Hence I would always prefer a blanking plate or some other way of running without a decoder in circuit where possible.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on May 08, 2017, 12:29:47 PM
@Nigel Cliffe (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3950) is far better at explaining the ins and outs of coreless motors than I shall ever be when it comes to feedback controllers from the 1980's and DCC chipped locos
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2017, 12:36:16 PM
I don't believe that any of the current N gauge manufacturers recommend using Feedback controllers with newer N gauge motors. 

One would presume that if you wish to use 30+ year old Feedback controller you should probably not order a Hunslet knowing that it has 21st century circuitry. 


I have never had any problem at all using the KPC controllers with ANY of my Arnold/Fleischmann/Minitrix/Hobbytrain/Liliput (bachmann) and all sorts of other quality brands, ranging from stuff made in the 60s right up to present day.  Plenty of "21st century technology" in the recent models, including coreless motors.  In that regard using feedback controllers is a non-issue. 

DCC decoders allegedly don't respond so well to certain DC controllers, I've yet to see it personally but I can understand how it could be a problem sensing and recognising the input.  Hence I would always prefer a blanking plate or some other way of running without a decoder in circuit where possible.

A feedback controller gets no feedback from a DCC chip so does nothing in theory

The DCC chip gets the motor feedback and should use it to give better performance in DC or DCC.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on May 08, 2017, 03:26:56 PM
I have never had any problem at all using the KPC controllers with ANY of my Arnold/Fleischmann/Minitrix/Hobbytrain/Liliput (bachmann) and all sorts of other quality brands, ranging from stuff made in the 60s right up to present day.  Plenty of "21st century technology" in the recent models, including coreless motors.  In that regard using feedback controllers is a non-issue. 

DCC decoders allegedly don't respond so well to certain DC controllers, I've yet to see it personally but I can understand how it could be a problem sensing and recognising the input.  Hence I would always prefer a blanking plate or some other way of running without a decoder in circuit where possible.

I don't know what modern tech continental manufacturers use, but please remember we are trying to fit a lot of features in a tiny space. Even in a larger N loco it wouldn't be half as challenging.

Assuming it all works then there will not be an option to fit a blanking plate (nor should there be any need). If a blanking plate were possible (unlikely due to space) then there would be a loss of functionality ie flashing beacon and stay alive - we took the view that it was better to provide better functionality to all users (DC or DCC) with the risk that it may upset some users of old technology (HF cleaners and feedback controllers - the latter already not recommended by Dapol).   We couldn't find a way to do it on purely DC and fit things in the space.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on May 08, 2017, 03:55:35 PM
Yeah sure, it's not a large loco.  It sounds like you're doing great to squeeze it all in and leave the cab clear.

I can live with it being decoder fitted, as I said I've yet to actually see a DCC fitted loco baulk at the KPC controllers on my layout.  Having a DC alternative board or something would be a "nice-to-have", it would avoid the difference in running characteristics of having to get up to 5 or 6 volts before the decoder wakes up.

I hope there's no fuss raised about it being DCC fitted like there was with the Peco Collett loco.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on May 08, 2017, 03:59:58 PM
I hope there's no fuss raised about it being DCC fitted like there was with the Peco Collett loco.

Thanks Nick!

We debated long about whether this was the best way to do it - I think the clincher for us was that by offering them all DCC fitted that there were distinct advantages for DC users (as well as DCC) ie we couldn't have done some of the things we wanted without the DCC decoder.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on May 08, 2017, 04:27:59 PM
I'm getting more excited by the paragraph!

 :bounce:

Once it's confirmed on the electronics side of things I have a feeling I may be ordering another couple!

 :smackedface:


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on May 08, 2017, 04:34:01 PM
And the speaker fits where?:-)(
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on May 08, 2017, 04:35:35 PM
 :laughabovepost:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 08, 2017, 05:12:43 PM
And the speaker fits where?:-)(

and the smoke generator for the diesel fumes.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on May 09, 2017, 09:56:24 PM
I hope there's no fuss raised about it being DCC fitted like there was with the Peco Collett loco.

My only gripe with the Peco Collett was paying a premium for a feature that was of no use to me. The NGS shunter by contrast looks like it is going to be a bargain at the price and if the chip allows extra features such as stay-alive even on DC then I am all for it!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 09, 2017, 09:58:56 PM
And the speaker fits where?:-)(

and the smoke generator for the diesel fumes.

This of course is the DCC chip when you fire up the RELCO  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 09, 2017, 10:35:27 PM
My only gripe with the Peco Collett was paying a premium for a feature that was of no use to me. The NGS shunter by contrast looks like it is going to be a bargain at the price and if the chip allows extra features such as stay-alive even on DC then I am all for it!  :thumbsup:

This in a nutshell was pretty much our thinking.

As to Relcos and feedback controllers, part of the specification was that the chip/PCB should aim to have protection from them, but I honestly would not recommend using them with any modern mechanisms.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on May 09, 2017, 10:44:53 PM
And the speaker fits where?:-)(

and the smoke generator for the diesel fumes.

And as the cab appears to be empty, how about an animated driver, maybe eating a sandwich  ???  ;D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on May 09, 2017, 10:54:01 PM
Now you're just being ridiculous...

...smoking a roll-up of course.

 :whistle:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on May 09, 2017, 11:16:59 PM
When we originally discussed the integrated pcb idea we were worried about feedback controllers, however i've spent a good few hours since it was raised again here investigating..... so the feedback controller would receive no motor feedback because this is received by the chip so not an issue... the only issue with a feedback controller is if its 1980's circuitry and differentiating DC waveforms would make the pcb think a dcc controller was sending a signal (which may create a runaway loco scenario!!), hence Ben A's advice above not recommending they are used with this locomotive.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: bridgiesimon on May 09, 2017, 11:20:14 PM


You'll also get the industrial smell of melting plastic as an added bonus
[/quote]

Haven't Dapol already done this, a couple of my models have at times smelt of molten plastic/diodes etc hehe!

Simon
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on May 09, 2017, 11:21:51 PM
Now you're just being ridiculous...

...smoking a roll-up of course.

 :whistle:

Thinking about it logically, having a driver smoking a roll-up is possible. If a smoke, (diesel fumes), generator is fitted, a system could be devised whereby some of the 'smoke' could be diverted to the mouth of the driver via a system of levers and tubes, (like the heater in a car).  Just a thought ....  :hmmm: :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 10, 2017, 12:22:20 AM
Don't you just know its a full moon tonight  :o
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on May 10, 2017, 12:32:54 AM
Don't you just know its a full moon tonight  :o

That made me howl with laughter.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on May 10, 2017, 08:03:56 AM
I was just thinking  :hmmm: You know what I like about these crowd-funded / small supplier products like this one? It's the level of involvement from a consumer point of view. I had very little interest in the prototype before this project and I have little general railway knowledge, yet, somehow, I feel really involved with this, and other, projects. As has been said above, with every post that goes by, I'm getting more and more excited purely because of the communication on behalf of the NGS and other forum members. From my point of view, that makes the purchase of a loco so much more rewarding.
Just a personal musing over coffee this morning.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on May 10, 2017, 09:35:38 AM
... the only issue with a feedback controller is if its 1980's circuitry and differentiating DC waveforms would make the pcb think a dcc controller was sending a signal (which may create a runaway loco scenario!!), hence Ben A's advice above not recommending they are used with this locomotive.

Yes, this has been a concern raised over many years in various arenas, will the decoder be confused by seeing neither pure DC nor a valid DCC signal and how will it behave? I don't recall ever reading any accounts of bad behaviour though.  It's extremely unlikely that the software would recognise anything like a valid command packet  from the waveform of a feedback/pwm controller.   As long as any pulse frequency is fast enough that the decoder remains properly alive it stands a chance of working.   

In my experience, runaways are more actually more likely on DCC: a decoder misinterpreting a bad/interrupted DCC signal as DC and taking off at full tilt!   I've got a G scale NCE decoder that did that occasionally in the garden until I disabled DC mode.   

I've seen a decoder not correctly recognise which direction it was supposed to be going on DC, and this was with a pure DC controller not any sort of PWM.

As I've mentioned previously, I've tried a few DCC- and Trix system-fitted locos in the past with my KPC controllers and never experienced any problems, but can't comment on other designs of controller. 

As for ancient "half-wave" controllers, now that's another matter  :worried: - should probably recommend against those also?  I bet there are some folk who've still got an old H&M or similar as prime power?   Personally I gutted mine decades ago and fitted Gaugemaster 100 panel-mounts in the boxes, and they still come with me to shows as emergency back-up.

Advice and recommendation duly noted of course.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 22, 2017, 08:57:20 AM

Helllo all,

The NGS has received completed CADs for its forthcoming Hunslet diesel shunter.

These include all the separate details, the grilles and the etched handrails.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/94-220617082108-528132321.jpeg)

As can be seen the horns, filler caps and windscreen wipers are separate parts, and blanking plugs will be provided that clip into the NEM sockets for anyone who wishes to dispense with the coupler at one or both ends.

The handrails vary between types according to the prototype.

The cab windows appear solid because the central cab section will be moulded complete in clear plastic and then painted; this maximises the space inside the model and will elminate the possibility of any "prismatic" effects at the corners of the windows.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/52/94-220617082110-52845214.jpeg)

The model will feature a six-stage reduction gearing for controllable slow speed running. The prototype's maximum is 15-20mph and while the model will go quicker, don't expect it to keep up with your express locos.

All models will have a digital PCB to enable DC users to have features like the flashing roof light (where applicable) and a stay-alive capacitor while DCC users won't need to dismantle it to fit a chip.

Colin Allbright, the design engineer working on this project, will now check all dimensions, clearances etc and once approved the model will be sent for tooling.

Cheers

Ben A.


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on June 22, 2017, 09:32:32 AM
great progress, looking forward to seeing them in the flesh so to speak.

cheers
Graham
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on June 22, 2017, 09:35:45 AM
@Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94), out of interest, how are orders for the different liveries stacking up? Do you know which ones are most likely to go ahead?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 22, 2017, 09:50:57 AM

Hello all,

The shop is collating the pre-orders; I don't know how they are all stacking up but the last I heard the most popular were NCB, Esso, British Steel and "military" green.

However, that could of course change as more people sign up. 

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on June 22, 2017, 09:56:19 AM
This looks more impressive every time I see it. I just wish you'd stop showing me updates, it makes my wallet keep twitching.

 :smackedface:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on June 22, 2017, 10:27:33 AM
If I join NGS now, can I order the shunter and then receive it even if my membership has lapsed before it has arrived ?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ian Bowden on June 22, 2017, 10:44:55 AM
If I join NGS now, can I order the shunter and then receive it even if my membership has lapsed before it has arrived ?
NGS is good value even if all you have is the newsletters, the shop has some excellent bargains not available anywhere else.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on June 22, 2017, 10:45:55 AM
If I join NGS now, can I order the shunter and then receive it even if my membership has lapsed before it has arrived ?


Stuart can you answer this ? @free debt man (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=315)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zopadooper on June 22, 2017, 11:23:31 AM
The NGS  ruling is that membership must be current at the time the product is made available.  If your membership has lapsed you will be invited to rejoin or you can ask for your deposit to be returned to you.

Alan Reed
NGS Treasurer
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 22, 2017, 11:25:48 AM
Hi Bob,

I cannot quote official NGS policy but my own view is that once you've paid a deposit as a member then there should be no good reason why your model should not be sent to you, whether or not in the meantime your membership has lapsed.

The NGS exclusives are exclsuive for tax reasons, and provided the tax man is happy then the NGS should be.  The exclusive models are, in part, intended to encourage people to join up but I do not believe there is any desire to "penalise" anyone who might choose to leave the NGS.

However, Stuart should be able to give the definitive response,

Of course, personally I hope that having received six journals you'll have enjoyed them and decide to stay; you may even be interested in our next RTR model after the Hunslet!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: free debt man on June 22, 2017, 11:30:33 AM
Alan Reed has given the correct reply at number 280
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on June 22, 2017, 11:44:20 AM

Hello all,

The shop is collating the pre-orders; I don't know how they are all stacking up but the last I heard the most popular were NCB, Esso, British Steel and "military" green.

However, that could of course change as more people sign up. 

Cheers

Ben A.

could you do a "plain" military green version?? might be more popular than the Logo'ed one??
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on June 22, 2017, 11:49:56 AM

Hello all,

The shop is collating the pre-orders; I don't know how they are all stacking up but the last I heard the most popular were NCB, Esso, British Steel and "military" green.

However, that could of course change as more people sign up. 

Cheers

Ben A.

could you do a "plain" military green version?? might be more popular than the Logo'ed one??

I didn't like to ask!

I plan to remove the lettering and re-letter into something MODish so I'd be happy with a "un-decaled" version.

At the end of the day I'm happy either way. Still a flippin' amazing little project.

 :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 22, 2017, 11:55:00 AM
Hello all,

Thanks to Stuart and Alan for explaining the rules- they may not chime with my own view but they are clear.

Bob - maybe your best bet is to hold off joining until the model is clearly less than a year away if you are anxious?   If you order before we put the models into production none will have sold out.

The plain green version is pretty plain; we took the view that it was better to offer an accurate model that could look convincing in a military setting, rather than a model we knew to be incomplete.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on June 22, 2017, 12:08:12 PM
Ben - this is clearly going to be a loco designed for shunting, so have you considered making provision for a DCC-operated coupler such as the one supplied by Krois?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 22, 2017, 12:27:33 PM

Hi Longbow,

We haven't considered this - what provision would be useful?  There is very little space inside the model for additional components, though of course the NEM sockets are as standard.

I think it's unlikely we would want to do anything now that would add to the cost and complexity of the model to accommodate a product that (as far as I can tell)  is not widely used in the UK.  I have heard of these couplers but never seen them in use at an exhibtion. 

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on June 22, 2017, 12:55:03 PM
As I understand it the Krois DCC uncoupler fits in the standard NEM socket so the main design requirements would be a wiring path and function support on the decoder. I'm not supposing you would offer this factory-fitted but it would be useful if the Hunslet design allowed a simple retro-fit. Nigel Cliffe from the 2MM Association appears to be the authority in this area.

https://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell-Own-production/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0e-TT-and-N/N-Digital-Standard-Coupler-N-DS::8326.html (https://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell-Own-production/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0e-TT-and-N/N-Digital-Standard-Coupler-N-DS::8326.html)



Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 22, 2017, 01:07:07 PM
As I understand it the Krois DCC uncoupler fits in the standard NEM socket so the main design requirements would be a wiring path and function support on the decoder. I'm not supposing you would offer this factory-fitted but it would be useful if the Hunslet design allowed a simple retro-fit. Nigel Cliffe from the 2MM Association appears to be the authority in this area.

https://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell-Own-production/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0e-TT-and-N/N-Digital-Standard-Coupler-N-DS::8326.html (https://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell-Own-production/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0e-TT-and-N/N-Digital-Standard-Coupler-N-DS::8326.html)

Additional switched output from the decoder with solder pads, ideally programmable to provide a 5 second pulse, is all that would be needed and we can fit them if we want them.  Most DCC chip sets have I/O lines so this should be possible.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on June 22, 2017, 01:47:05 PM
As I understand it the Krois DCC uncoupler fits in the standard NEM socket so the main design requirements would be a wiring path and function support on the decoder. I'm not supposing you would offer this factory-fitted but it would be useful if the Hunslet design allowed a simple retro-fit. Nigel Cliffe from the 2MM Association appears to be the authority in this area.

https://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell-Own-production/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0e-TT-and-N/N-Digital-Standard-Coupler-N-DS::8326.html (https://shop.krois-modell.com/Krois-Modell-Own-production/Digital-Couplers/Couplers-H0e-TT-and-N/N-Digital-Standard-Coupler-N-DS::8326.html)

I fittted two of these to an 08, they are incredibly temperamental, if they are not on a timed pulse ie on the special output of a CT DCX76z they burn out at the blink of an eye. they dont fit into they press onto the NEM pocket....they are about 6mm square so stick out about 3 feet in N standards :) and as their wires are underneath catch track work easily.  I also presume the cost of changing the design would be prohibitive.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on June 22, 2017, 03:24:22 PM
if they are not on a timed pulse ie on the special output of a CT DCX76z they burn out at the blink of an eye. they dont fit into they press onto the NEM pocket....they are about 6mm square so stick out about 3 feet in N standards :) and as their wires are underneath catch track work easily.  I also presume the cost of changing the design would be prohibitive.

We have solutions for most of that and I doubt that changing the CAD would be that problematic. The only addition is really channels for the wires to get to the PCB. What we can't change is the NEM socket position as that is a standard.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on June 22, 2017, 04:19:33 PM
if they are not on a timed pulse ie on the special output of a CT DCX76z they burn out at the blink of an eye. they dont fit into they press onto the NEM pocket....they are about 6mm square so stick out about 3 feet in N standards :) and as their wires are underneath catch track work easily.  I also presume the cost of changing the design would be prohibitive.

We have solutions for most of that and I doubt that changing the CAD would be that problematic. The only addition is really channels for the wires to get to the PCB. What we can't change is the NEM socket position as that is a standard.

Cheers, Mike

You are covering the major needs of modellers ( DC/DCC, NEM, flashing lights) - I suggest that custom DCC couplers that few have heard of, let alone seen in action, would be unnecessary extra work.

Anyway, a driver figure with waving arm would be a much more useful DCC fitment??
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on June 22, 2017, 04:23:02 PM
Totally agree with Railwaygun, but could the driver have a pint pot in his hand?  ;D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 22, 2017, 05:04:05 PM
Totally agree with Railwaygun, but could the driver have a pint pot in his hand?  ;D

ASLEF and NUR variants?   :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on June 22, 2017, 05:08:53 PM
You are covering the major needs of modellers ( DC/DCC, NEM, flashing lights) - I suggest that custom DCC couplers that few have heard of, let alone seen in action, would be unnecessary extra work.

No room for a driver (unless you cut his legs off!) ;-)

My point is that the extra work is very trivial if it will fit ie just leaving space for 2 very thin wires to go from the coupler to the PCB. We will see if there is space.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on June 23, 2017, 07:31:30 AM
Not being a member of NGS, I have no idea of the reliability of their predicted availability for their models. That being the case, it is entirely possible that I could join for one year only to be forced to join for an unwanted second (or third) year just to purchase a model. Of course, it is possible that the annual membership fee could become worthwhile without buying a model but our postage system down here renders that most unlikely. Is the hard copy magazine available electronically ?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 23, 2017, 07:46:17 AM

Hi Bob,

I don't think the Journal is available as a PDF or in other electronic format.

If you're worried just wait until the model comes out and then join.  Unless there is a particular livery you want to the exclusion of all others then there are sure to be some to buy post production - the NGS shop intends to sell the model beyond the initial launch phase.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: zopadooper on June 23, 2017, 07:58:43 AM
Once your initial joining fee of £12 is paid, the overseas subscription is £26 per year.  Disregarding all the other benefits, for that you get (totally free including postage) 6 quality journals a year containing nearly 100 pages of pictures, articles and N gauge news.  If you choose to take advantage of the wide range of bespoke ready to run and kit products available at very competitive prices and a postage charge anywhere in the world of £4 up to £100 parcel value, the benefits of membership are further enhanced.

Alan Reed
N Gauge Society Treasurer
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NeMo on June 23, 2017, 08:30:28 AM
Once your initial joining fee of £12 is paid, the overseas subscription is £26 per year.  Disregarding all the other benefits, for that you get (totally free including postage) 6 quality journals a year containing nearly 100 pages of pictures, articles and N gauge news.  If you choose to take advantage of the wide range of bespoke ready to run and kit products available at very competitive prices and a postage charge anywhere in the world of £4 up to £100 parcel value, the benefits of membership are further enhanced.

Well said Alan. If you're even half-serious about N gauge modelling, joining the NGS is a no-brainer. Doesn't cost much; tonnes of benefits; good quality journal with plenty to read.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PLD on June 23, 2017, 08:41:39 AM
Not being a member of NGS, I have no idea of the reliability of their predicted availability for their models. That being the case, it is entirely possible that I could join for one year only to be forced to join for an unwanted second (or third) year just to purchase a model.


Once your initial joining fee of £12 is paid, the overseas subscription is £26 per year.

Or if you are interested solely in this one product and nothing else from the society; the alternative (if controversial) route is don't bother joining. Wait until they appear on e-bay shortly after release, as they inevitably will. Set your self a maximum of £38 (joining fee+1 year subscription) more than the Society Shop price, and if you win it for less than that, you're in credit! The only risk is that you may not get your first choice of livery.

I got a Thompson Full Brake by that method, paying only £2 more than the Shop price AND had it in my possession before some Society members pre-orders from the shop had arrived!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Karhedron on June 23, 2017, 08:58:43 AM
Well said Alan. If you're even half-serious about N gauge modelling, joining the NGS is a no-brainer. Doesn't cost much; tonnes of benefits; good quality journal with plenty to read.

I totally agree. I joined the NGS some years when the Stove-R was released. Originally I only planned to join for a year but I was impressed by the journal and the shop and ended up renewing. It is good value for what you get and I have even ended up writing a few articles for the journal myself.

Who'da thunk it? ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on June 23, 2017, 09:15:12 AM
Well said Alan. If you're even half-serious about N gauge modelling, joining the NGS is a no-brainer. Doesn't cost much; tonnes of benefits; good quality journal with plenty to read.

I totally agree. I joined the NGS some years when the Stove-R was released. Originally I only planned to join for a year but I was impressed by the journal and the shop and ended up renewing. It is good value for what you get and I have even ended up writing a few articles for the journal myself.

Who'da thunk it? ;)

I did something similar and have renewed ever since, taking advantage of the three year subscription these days. I've now joined the 2mm Finescale Association and Bachman Collectors Club. They all offer fantastic value for their publications alone, in my opinion, although I do enjoy the various other benefits. I much prefer them to Railway Modeller et al., and they have certainly helped my modelling. Don't forget that there will be many more RTR models too. Personally, I could justify my membership just with the number of different RTR models I've bought as I have most of them, although I am relatively Rule 1. I dare say there is another in the top secret pipeline already.
Anyway, enough bullying from me, have a serious think about the benefits, I'm sure 5,000 other members would agree you wouldn't regret it.

The CAD looks great by the way.  :thankyousign:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on June 23, 2017, 09:43:57 AM
I agree that the CAD looks good and the concept of the model makes it desirable for any layout that includes rail served industry. The potential problems as I see it are based upon South Africa's abysmal postage service (which will in all likelihood mean journals do not arrive and possibly the model may go west as well) plus the current volatility of the South African currency. Having said that, the pound seems to be falling along with the rand so currency fluctuations maybe won't be to bad if the model arrives before Brexit's conclusions. Perhaps I will just wait until the model is available since whatever livery is available will be subjected to a re-paint anyway.

As regards the coupling; NEM sockets allow Dapol 'easi-shunts' so that will satisfy me for hands-off operation.

Thank you all for your answers and advice.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 23, 2017, 09:56:49 AM

Hi Bob,

If you're not worried about the livery then it seems best to wait. 

And if your model is going to be repainted anyway you could save yourself some time stripping by just ordering the undecorated version.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Cape Town Trev on June 23, 2017, 06:53:20 PM
I agree that the CAD looks good and the concept of the model makes it desirable for any layout that includes rail served industry. The potential problems as I see it are based upon South Africa's abysmal postage service (which will in all likelihood mean journals do not arrive and possibly the model may go west as well) plus the current volatility of the South African currency. Having said that, the pound seems to be falling along with the rand so currency fluctuations maybe won't be to bad if the model arrives before Brexit's conclusions. Perhaps I will just wait until the model is available since whatever livery is available will be subjected to a re-paint anyway.

As regards the coupling; NEM sockets allow Dapol 'easi-shunts' so that will satisfy me for hands-off operation.

Thank you all for your answers and advice.

No prizes for where I live, just to assist, The Mother City  :D

I am a life member of the NGS. Yes our postal service is a disgrace. I wait about 4 to 6 weeks for post. The NGS journal is worth the money. I don't find every article readable but in general worth it. The magazine is not time limited so waiting for weeks is not a big problem.
I did receive two locos from Hattons, ordered Tuesday arrived today, DHL. I try where I can to avoid our postal service.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on August 01, 2017, 04:38:08 PM
Ladies and Gents,

the Hunslet industrial shunter is nearing the end of the CAD development stage.  This process involves drawings going between the factory in China and Colin Allbright, who is designing this model for the NGS.

There are two distinct variants of the shunter - the lighter 50T early types, and the later 55T heavier versions.

This CAD is largely approved and will be the earlier type in NCB livery:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817162734.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53930)

This drawing is for the heavier type and illustrates some of the corrections required on the original CAD:
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817162904.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53931)

At this stage we are proposing 8 of the 50T locos and 7 of the 55T - many of these have different combinations of vents, auxiliary equipment boxes, handrails, lights and other details and each of these has to be checked.

Once this work is done, and the CADs are all approved, we will be ready to authorise the manufacture of the moulds.

Some further CADs follow, which may be of interest:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817163247.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53932)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817163527.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53933)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817163603.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53934)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817163636.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53935)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on August 01, 2017, 05:38:13 PM
I've said it before and I'll say it again...

...bloomin' awesome!

Can't wait!

 :bounce:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PLD on August 01, 2017, 09:22:16 PM
([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817163636.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53935[/url])

And unlike a few recent examples (in larger scales), you haven't felt it necessary to gear-coupled the wheels as well as the coupling rods (regarded by many as a sign of poor chassis design) :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 01, 2017, 10:19:12 PM
And unlike a few recent examples (in larger scales), you haven't felt it necessary to gear-coupled the wheels as well as the coupling rods (regarded by many as a sign of poor chassis design)
Funnily enough I think the exact opposite, I'd much rather have the axles linked by gearing. Less wear and tear on the rods   :D   

Looking good!  Slightly confused by annotation #2 in the images - is that requesting handrail stantions to be added or removed? There only seems to be the one single middle stantion in the prototype photo?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on August 01, 2017, 10:27:12 PM
Is that a vertically mounted NEM651 socket in the cab? Will need a small decoder if so. Could it be mounted horizontally instead to reduce intrusion into the cab space?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on August 01, 2017, 10:30:25 PM
And unlike a few recent examples (in larger scales), you haven't felt it necessary to gear-coupled the wheels as well as the coupling rods (regarded by many as a sign of poor chassis design)

Funnily enough I think the exact opposite, I'd much rather have the axles linked by gearing. Less wear and tear on the rods   :D   

Looking good!  Slightly confused by annotation #2 in the images - is that requesting handrail stantions to be added or removed? There only seems to be the one single middle stantion in the prototype photo?


Apologies. There has been a mix up with photographs supplied for this thread. The second image should be replaced with this one: (i'll leave the incorrect one on the original post to preserve thread continuity)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817223002.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53952)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on August 01, 2017, 10:35:34 PM
Unfortunately, I personally can't answer any technical queries, but Ben A should be along in due course to do so. Thanks.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PLD on August 01, 2017, 10:48:07 PM
And unlike a few recent examples (in larger scales), you haven't felt it necessary to gear-coupled the wheels as well as the coupling rods (regarded by many as a sign of poor chassis design)
Funnily enough I think the exact opposite, I'd much rather have the axles linked by gearing. Less wear and tear on the rods   :D 
But to work successfully, either you need to manufacture to near perfect tolerances, or allow an excessive amount of slop in the rods (poor cosmetically); otherwise the likelihood is that the rods and gears will conflict and cause binding/poor running.
Gear chains also tend to be noisier...

The 'excuse' generally given for doing it is to improve haulage which shows a lack of understanding of chassis mechanics - it doesn't change the number of driven wheels or the weight bearing on those wheels which are the primary factors in haulage capacity.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on August 02, 2017, 12:03:49 AM

Hi there,

In answer to the query about DCC sockets, this model will not have one because all will be supplied with a PCB that incorporates a DCC chip.

On DC, the chip controls the stay alive capacity and flashing amber light.  On DCC it works as usual.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 02, 2017, 07:51:32 AM
But [for gear chain and rods] to work successfully, either you need to manufacture to near perfect tolerances, or allow an excessive amount of slop in the rods (poor cosmetically); otherwise the likelihood is that the rods and gears will conflict and cause binding/poor running.
The continental manufacturers have managed it perfectly well for decades.  The vast majority of my rodded locos have a full gear chain and all run beautifully smoothly. Taking the strain off the rods allows for finer/thinner rodding and a more durable mechanism.

OTOH I've encountered several wobbly locos driven by rods alone, with poor quartering not helping either.

Agree to disagree on this point I think  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dalek on August 02, 2017, 09:18:16 AM
Will it be possible to buy a body separately ? I fancy a BP or ESSO version to go with my class b tankers, but i NEED a flashing light ! Don't care if its not correct, i just need one :-) Thoughts are buy one that has the light and swap the body after drilling a suitable hole, that is if the light poke through a hole ?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on August 02, 2017, 10:24:51 AM
Yes the PCB will be the same for all.

We have no plans to sell bodyshells - sorry.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dalek on August 02, 2017, 10:30:36 AM
Yes the PCB will be the same for all.

We have no plans to sell bodyshells - sorry.

Cheers, Mike

Thanks for the reply Mike
Would it be possible to buy the same led or advise where to buy one ? Is it special to the model, is it a flashing led or does the pcb flash the led using a normal led ?

Cheers
Craig
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on August 02, 2017, 12:45:55 PM
Hello all,

The BP version has the flashing light.  The graphic I produced for the website is wrong and I will update it.

The chassis could be produced with all wheels driven but as has been explained this requires far, far finer tolerances and would add significantly to the cost.

Our model will follow the pattern of all recent Farish small shunters (03, 04) and 3-axle driven steam locomotives with a centre driven axle and power transmitted, as it is on the prototype, via coupling rods.  I am not aware of significant numbers of complaints about Farish locos.

Obviously we will hold a stock of spares for warranty repairs, replacements etc but this is a mass-produced RTR locomotive and while we are offering an undecorated version we just don't have the capacity to offer every permutation of chassis/body etc. 

If you really just want the body, then my suggestion is to buy the complete loco and sell the chassis on ebay - I am sure someone else will find a use for it!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dalek on August 02, 2017, 01:29:10 PM
The BP version has the flashing light.  The graphic I produced for the website is wrong and I will update it.

Cool, that's the one i was after anyway  :thumbsup:  :claphappy:

what about sound ?.... lol....runs away....  :D

Cheers
Craig
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: LeftToMyOwnDevices on August 02, 2017, 02:58:44 PM
Ladies and Gents,

the Hunslet industrial shunter is nearing the end of the CAD development stage.  This process involves drawings going between the factory in China and Colin Allbright, who is designing this model for the NGS.

Once this work is done, and the CADs are all approved, we will be ready to authorise the manufacture of the moulds.

Some further CADs follow, which may be of interest:

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/53/6239-010817163636.jpeg[/url]) ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=53935[/url])


When I first saw the image above, my initial reaction was “Someone has just done a ‘Damien Hirst’, but without all the formaldehyde...” :laugh3:

More seriously, I do have some understanding of how CAD software works; allowing you to do a cut-away, cut-through sectional view, etc. :)

Thank you to one and all (Colin, Ben, and Uncle Tom Cobbly...) for keeping us all posted.

At first, I had absolutely no interest in this project, until a fateful visit to the NGS Stand at Ally Pally, this year. After walking away with the last six Blue Cargowaggens – I suddenly realised I had also paid deposits on three of these (courtesy of Mirlees‘Arkwright’-like salesmanship skills!). :o :worried:

Now, I've become very interested in all the innovation that is being put into the product, particularly the DC/DCC 'integration'; most ingenious. :thumbsup:

Charles.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on August 03, 2017, 01:54:48 PM
Now, I've become very interested in all the innovation that is being put into the product, particularly the DC/DCC 'integration'; most ingenious. :thumbsup:


A number of Bachmann US locos are Dc/Dcc out of the box, and i suspect that the minimal extra costs ( and single production line) will ensure that it is increasingly common in new GB locos.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on August 03, 2017, 06:38:14 PM
A number of Bachmann US locos are Dc/Dcc out of the box, and i suspect that the minimal extra costs ( and single production line) will ensure that it is increasingly common in new GB locos.

Hi there,

I agree, though I should stress that for this shunter the main reason was to ensure that DC users could enjoy the flashing light and stay alive capacitor functions.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on August 03, 2017, 09:29:16 PM
On the subject of how wheels are driven, using the rods causes few problems as long as they are suitably robust. As I type this I am looking at my Farish 03 and 04. Both are really sweet runners and the rods do not look excessively bulky or over scale to me, in fact the crank pins are very neat. If the Hunslet follows their example with the added benefit of "stay alive" and DCC I doubt many will complain.

I would also point out that gear coupling brings it's own problems which can include over large holes in rods to compensate for slop in the gears, the oddity of wheels beginning to move fractionally before the rods and a see-sawing motion in the rods as the loco goes along. My Ixion Manor, exquisite in every other respect demonstrates the see-sawing very visibly.

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on August 04, 2017, 08:45:52 AM
A number of Bachmann US locos are Dc/Dcc out of the box, and i suspect that the minimal extra costs ( and single production line) will ensure that it is increasingly common in new GB locos.


Hi there,

I agree, though I should stress that for this shunter the main reason was to ensure that DC users could enjoy the flashing light and stay alive capacitor functions.

Cheers

Ben A.


this combination of DC/DCc, light( flashing) and Stay-alive is unique and a World first!! (cue trumpets)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/941-040817084932.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54005)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on August 04, 2017, 01:38:51 PM
A number of Bachmann US locos are Dc/Dcc out of the box, and i suspect that the minimal extra costs ( and single production line) will ensure that it is increasingly common in new GB locos.
I agree, though I should stress that for this shunter the main reason was to ensure that DC users could enjoy the flashing light and stay alive capacitor functions.
I'm sure that you're both right, and for those of us wanting our new locos DCC equipped, it "should" be a cheaper end result.

Unfortunately, it will inevitably eat into the business models of the DCC decoder aftermarket in the way that integrated car entertainment systems did to the car audio aftermarket. I hope that it doesn't also cause a race to the bottom in terms of quality of fitted decoders. Not to mention the availability of decoder information and manuals, etc...

Sadly, I think it will but then I do have a dominant cynicism gene!  ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: hsthero on August 04, 2017, 05:00:14 PM
Will the unpainted version I have ordered have the roof flashing lamp? The prototype I want to model appears to have one fitted.

Also how can I change an existing order for a different livery?

Regards
Colin W
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on August 04, 2017, 08:39:38 PM
I'm sure that you're both right, and for those of us wanting our new locos DCC equipped, it "should" be a cheaper end result.

...I hope that it doesn't also cause a race to the bottom in terms of quality of fitted decoders. Not to mention the availability of decoder information and manuals, etc...

Hi Nick,

If customers want better quality decoders they can vote with their wallets, by rejecting models with cheaper ones.

Unfortunately the overriding message to manufacturers often seems to be that that models are too expensive, should be cheaper, prices are going to kill the hobby, etc etc.

So I suspect it can be tempting to cut corners on components.

Edit: Having said that, I think the Farish sound-fitted Nunney Castle has a Zimo decoder and that these are considered good.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on August 05, 2017, 01:35:47 PM
If customers want better quality decoders they can vote with their wallets, but rejecting models with cheaper ones.

Unfortunately the overriding message to manufacturers often seems to be that that models are too expensive, should be cheaper, prices are going to kill the hobby, etc etc.

So I suspect it can be tempting to cut corners on components.

Edit: Having said that, I think the Farish sound-fitted Nunney Castle has a Zimo decoder and that these are considered good.

Hi Ben,

You're right about Nunney Castle - it's a Zimo MX658 - I don't know how much choice there'd have been in Next18 sound decoders, though.

I suppose what was actually in my mind when I penned my remark was the possibility of other manufacturers following where you're leading with the Hunslet, and providing the DCC decoder built-in, so there'll be no possibility of swapping it out for a better one without surgery. I'll take that on for a non-DCC Ready loco that I already own, but I'm not sure I would just to upgrade. In all honesty, I'm getting tired of fitting decoders full stop - I've a couple of new locos that suffered (admittedly minor) damage in opening them up because of the use of clips to hold things together, and, joking aside, I'm not especially thumb-fingered!

I think that the decoder would have to be very bad, or the modeller very obsessive, to reject a model purely on decoder performance - there aren't that many duplicated prototypes.

Ah well, it will be what it will be...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on August 05, 2017, 03:19:15 PM
I cant see anyone putting the decoder manufacturer down with what will come with these locomotives even if they are obsessive!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on August 05, 2017, 03:31:22 PM
I cant see anyone putting the decoder manufacturer down with what will come with these locomotives even if they are obsessive!
I wasn't meaning the Hunslet. I'd gone a bit off-topic and was idly speculating on future developments...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on August 05, 2017, 04:28:20 PM
TBH Nick I think you're worrying unduly.  The main reason we integrated the decoder into the PCB was space and the fact that it benefited DC and DCC users.  For locos with more space or different functions then it isn't so crucial eg I wouldn't have put an integrated decoder in a 92.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on August 06, 2017, 07:59:09 AM
I hope that the mainstream manufacturers are also reading this thread (they probably are, there is good marketing intelligence here). With the developments at Farish (think Castle class and class 40 locomotives) the extra possibilities opened up by this little shunter are moving things along in the right direction IMHO.

I look forward to a new class 08 with fitted decoder and stay alive (and also correct width connecting rods) being offered in popular liveries at the time of release. Maybe a pipe dream ? If it happens then NGS will have fulfilled a very valuable service to all N gauge modelers.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on August 06, 2017, 11:03:03 AM
TBH Nick I think you're worrying unduly.  The main reason we integrated the decoder into the PCB was space and the fact that it benefited DC and DCC users.  For locos with more space or different functions then it isn't so crucial eg I wouldn't have put an integrated decoder in a 92.

I'm not exactly staying up nights worrying, Mike...  ;)

Yes, I realise why you did it - @Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94) explained it to me at a show somewhere - Trainwest, possibly? And a cracking good idea it is too - kudos to whoever came up with it.

Like @BobB (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=762) , I'd be delighted to see other manufacturers (or the NGS, of course) produce other small locos in the same way. Shoehorning decoders into spaces never intended for them in 04s, 08s and 14xx's is not exactly my favourite way of spending my modelling time. But there can be few layouts that don't want a 08 or similar, so if you're a DCC modeller, you have to do it. Or pay someone else to, of course.

I was just speculating what might happen if and when others tread the same path. Whether they might extend the usage as a marketing ploy. It would have its attractions. Opening delicate models up to plug in decoders is not an ideal solution.

Now, you couldn't work on an external slot-in option for decoders, like a SIM card or camera SD card, as your next project, could you???  :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on August 06, 2017, 07:30:36 PM

Now, you couldn't work on an external slot-in option for decoders, like a SIM card or camera SD card, as your next project, could you???  :)

That is a brilliant idea - it could be hidden under the coal in a tender or just have a slot underneath the engine.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on August 06, 2017, 07:34:12 PM
Rapido is already doing this on one of its North American locomotives in H0. The decoder slides into the fuel tank.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 06, 2017, 07:53:02 PM
Its a good idea but in general the socket is bigger than the chip and on N locos even with DCC sockets to add sound I cut out the socket for the space for a speaker.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on August 06, 2017, 09:13:12 PM
One of the complaints about using DCC/DC compatible boards is that for DC use you need to use more power to get the loco moving.
A DCC fitted loco on DC will always require a few volts before the decoder wakes up.  It's not a problem at all unless you try and double-head with a straight DC loco.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: hsthero on August 10, 2017, 05:18:13 PM
Scott, thanks for the information showing which type, livery and roof lamp each model will have.

For the unpainted model I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for a 55T with lamp.

Regards

Colon W.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on August 10, 2017, 06:47:15 PM
Scott, thanks for the information showing which type, livery and roof lamp each model will have.

For the unpainted model I will keep my fingers crossed and hope for a 55T with lamp.

Regards

Colon W.

Hi Colin,

I don't know how many orders we have received for undecorated models so far, and whether any decisions have been made about specifications, but I'd email the shopkeeper expressing your preference - maybe you can swing it!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: hsthero on August 10, 2017, 07:11:57 PM
Hi Ben,

Thanks for the advice. I will email the shopkeeper as you suggest.

Regards

Colin W.

Got my name right this time!

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on August 11, 2017, 08:28:25 AM
All,

Some revised/corrected graphics for the BP liveried machines are attached. These replace previous images and confirm the inclusion of the flashing light above the cab.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6239-110817082703.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54170)


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/54/6239-110817082743.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=54171)

With thanks to Ben A

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on October 02, 2017, 03:11:11 PM
I notice that Journal 5/17 states that a decision on culling liveries is soon to be reached. Anything happened so far?

(I'm about to put an order in, and thought I'd check rather than go round a pointless loop.)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on October 02, 2017, 04:43:15 PM

Hi Nick,

The toolwork is only just starting on this model, we are some months away from considering whether any models need to be culled.

We are hoping to be able to offer as many as possible; this model is not crowffunded of course so as long as the numbers for any given livery are respectable it will go ahead - we don't need to sell out before we start.

So order the model you want!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: littlegs on October 02, 2017, 05:15:15 PM
Ben
You say that some liveries may be culled.
Ok but what about those who have made a deposit for a certain livery only to find that it is not going to be available as originally planned and don't want an alternative?
Littlegs
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on October 02, 2017, 06:15:57 PM
They w
Ben
You say that some liveries may be culled.
Ok but what about those who have made a deposit for a certain livery only to find that it is not going to be available as originally planned and don't want an alternative?

They will get a refund!  I'm afraid we can only produce liveries that sufficient people want!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: littlegs on October 02, 2017, 07:02:37 PM
Thanks for clarification Red
Littlegs
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on October 02, 2017, 08:17:35 PM
The toolwork is only just starting on this model, we are some months away from considering whether any models need to be culled.
[snip]
So order the model you want!
Thanks, Ben.

Will do - the Journal made it sound a little more imminent, hence my query.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: bluedepot on October 02, 2017, 09:28:23 PM
in a moment of weakness i ordered one

i've changed my mind about which one so many times...  currently i favour the ncb maroon one...  i'll have to finalise the version i want with ngs soon i guess...


tim
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: R Marshall on December 03, 2017, 08:17:07 PM
Does anyone have pictures of the Hunslet in NCB Northumberland and Durham Area green livery in service and weathered, please?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on December 03, 2017, 08:26:02 PM
Was it one of these Hunslets I just saw on TV on the Julie Walters Coastal Railways program?   NCB markings.

Aln Valley Railway I think it was.

[edit] hmm... not sure. the AVR website lists their beastie as a Barclay ?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: R Marshall on December 03, 2017, 08:49:43 PM
Nick,

Many thanks.

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Mustermark on December 21, 2017, 03:19:02 AM
I saw the bold announcement to have two different toolings; 50t and 55t...

http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?p=1584 (http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?p=1584)

It's obviously going to make tooling more expensive, but it makes the models more accurate. I applaud the intent to do this right, and I hope the difference is noticeable. If it is, then I have a question...

I might have missed it, but how do we know which liveries are 50t and which are 55t. I might want to pre-order a second one, but would want to choose a livery of the other variant.

Does anyone have a breakdown of the 50/50 split?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on December 21, 2017, 05:52:53 AM
Hi Mark,

We realised during research (and thanks to information from Hunslet) that there were, broadly speaking, two clear variants - the lighter 50t locos with 311hp and heavier 55t locos with 450hp.  These images show the two types:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/94-211217050101-595651834.jpeg)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/94-211217050101-595651045.jpeg)

You'll see from the photos that the basic shape remains the same, but there are differences in the footplate, handrails and auxiliary equipment fitted to the more powerful loco.

The most obvious spotting differences on the side of the chassis fairing are the sandbox filler hatches - square, with a round cover, on the 50t and rectangular on the 55t - and the lower corners either side of the wheels which are curved on one and angled on the other.

In some ways the differences are subtle, but to arrange for different handrails requires different locator holes so with the other differences we decided the best solution was to tool two different decks.

From memory the NGS offerings breakdown as follows:

50t - 0591 NCB green, 0594 NCB olive, 0595 BP white 0595 BP green, 059C RfD grey, 059D HNRC, 059F Big John.

55t - 0562 NCB maroon, 0594 Esso, 0597 CEGB orange, 0598 British Steel, 0599 Ports Authority, 059A RMS, 059B Lafarge, 059E Caledonian blue.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Les1952 on December 24, 2017, 10:43:28 AM
As requested a couple of weeks ago (but only just noticed), a couple of pics of the Hunslet diesels in County Durham.

1.  Unknown number at Philadelphia

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/1473-241217102957.jpeg)

2.  No.501 at Derwenthaugh cokeworks.  Note the cab widows sheeted over and replacement larger lettering.  Derwenthaugh wasn't exactly renowned for looking after their locos well.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/1473-241217102736.jpeg)

And a livery the NGS is not doing - original Yorkshire Area maroon at Prince of Wales, but clear enough to show how the lining on the NE Area ones weathered.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/1473-241217103841.jpeg)

Hope these help, I haven't any better shots, having been limited in funds for film at the time and much more interested in the steam at these locations.....

Les


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on December 24, 2017, 11:43:22 AM
Nice shots, and a timely reminder that I hadn’t actually put an order in despite my initial enthusiasm!

Now sorted :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on December 24, 2017, 04:23:56 PM

Hi Les,

Wow, thanks for posting.  Some really atmospheric and evocative shots there.

We did ponder the lined maroon livery, but research seemed to suggest that the unlined maroon livery lasted longer.  I also felt it would probably be easier to add lining to an unlined model, than remove it from a lined one.

However, I am no expert on the service lives of these locos and source material is surprisingly thin on the ground.  I suspect this is a natural consequence of them spending most of their lives in private ownership on secure industrial sites that made it hard for the average enthusiast to get shots.

If anyone has any more photos of these locos in service, and wishes to contribute to this thread, I would be really grateful to see them.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: R Marshall on December 24, 2017, 06:39:28 PM
Les, many thanks. Merry Christmas.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Mustermark on February 03, 2018, 12:32:40 AM
Thanks for the earlier info Ben. The NGS shop now shows the 50t/55t distinction in the descriptions.  I have duly paid my deposit for a 55t CEGB orange version so I will get one of each type.

In case y'all haven't watched Top Gear, here's a link to Matt le Blanc getting a ride from Ken Block in a 1600hp 1964 Mustang. There's a connection because Block only ever seems to drives Ford.  If you don't enjoy exhibition driving and tyre smoke, skip to about 2 minutes in.  It's only a glimpse, but...

https://youtu.be/PrqYohBV58o (https://youtu.be/PrqYohBV58o)

Is that a Hunslet of the Ford variety? I assume it's at the Dagenham plant where they still build ecoboost engines that are shipped to Europe for car assembly.

BTW, the 2015 Mustang 5.0L GT with 435hp was a 'lively beast' to own. Can't imagine how a 1600hp Mustang feels...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on February 03, 2018, 01:46:11 AM

Hi Mark,

Ha - good find.  But it looks like an 0-4-0, so not quite the same.  Those Cargowaggon vans in the shed look interesting too... (though they are single units, not twins.)

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on March 18, 2018, 02:46:13 PM
Sorry to bump this topic but I noticed on the NGS site that a first EP was hoped for by the end of Q1 so wondered if Ben or Mike or indeed any other knowledgeable NGS Committee person could provide an update on how things are progressing?

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on March 18, 2018, 06:52:03 PM

Hi Roy,

No news as yet - we have paid the first instalment for the tooling to be started and are awaiting the first mouldings.

It'll probably be another 4-6 weeks before we see these parts, though of course we will post images when we do.

Cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 1936ace on April 02, 2018, 02:30:26 PM
Hi all

ive got a maroon and a green BP(for my dad) already on order
What would be a good one to use in a western area/region apart from the drab NCB green one.
it doesn't have to be prototypical

cheers
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on April 03, 2018, 10:10:30 AM

Hi 1936ace,

I would just be inclined to pick a colour you like and go with it.  Detailed information about the spread of these shunters seems hard to come by, especially those used on short or medium term hire.

However, Milford Haven No.77 in pale blue is of a very similar type:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/84203662@N07/34426865723/in/photolist-UsbFLp-S2tsUJ-6bVZYf-QDGtft (https://www.flickr.com/photos/84203662@N07/34426865723/in/photolist-UsbFLp-S2tsUJ-6bVZYf-QDGtft)

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Cooper on April 03, 2018, 12:25:18 PM
How about one like this one above :thumbsup: for Lofthole Oil Terminal @PostModN66 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2671) ?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on April 29, 2018, 08:41:22 PM
I found this post (apologies for its location  :-[ ) showing another colliery with what looks like one of these shunters

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133282-bickersleigh-colliery-in-00-a-north-western-scene/ (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/133282-bickersleigh-colliery-in-00-a-north-western-scene/)

EDIT: see post no. 2
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on May 11, 2018, 08:25:35 PM
Nearly two months since the last time an update was requested (OK yes, by me) I wondered if we are any closer yet to seeing something more substantive than the CADs?

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 11, 2018, 10:54:32 PM

Hello Roy

No real news, hence no updates.  The model is in tooling and we are expecting EP samples soon, though I cannot say exactly when.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 25, 2018, 01:19:09 AM
Hello all,

THe NGS has received first EP samples of its forthcoming Hunslet 0-6-0DH shunter.

Three models were received for testing, representing from left to right the Esso, BP and British Steel versions.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/65/94-250518005936-656321188.jpeg)

This is the BP version from the other side, identical to the NCB version with hemispherical engine exhauster mounted on the side of the bonnet and disctinctive looped handrail.

The black footplate is completely diecast, for weight.  This is the lighter 50T chassis, with square apertures for the sandbox fillers with circular caps.  Other models will have the heavier 55T version, with rectangular apertures and "flaps."

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/65/94-250518005937-65635926.jpeg)

We had expected these models to be mouldings and etches only, put together to check fit etc, however two were motorised and under test the haulage was impressive - the model was able to pull 20 short wheelbase wagons around R1 track.

There was some slight rocking, however this was not unexpected and we anticipate that once the chassis has been balanced this will disappear.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/65/94-250518005941-656362243.jpeg)

One model has been sent to our PCB supplier for the PCBs to be designed to fit; these will incorporate a DCC control to smooth the drive, engage the stay alive capacitors where necessary and power the flashing roof light on those models that carry them.

These models will be on display at the NGS AGM in July and on the NGS display stand once testing is complete.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on May 25, 2018, 01:38:35 AM
Those are very impressive, @Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94) . Looking forward to my bright orange CEGB one for use as my Udesor Grain terminal shunter.  Feels like really rapid progress has been made with these.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on May 25, 2018, 01:39:00 AM
Ben, thanks for the comprehensive update and photos. I'm mightily impressed with all of them, this project is coming together nicely.

I've never been that interested in diesels or industrial locos for that matter, but I have two of these on order and if this is the standard of model then I reckon I can see a third being on the cards.

Many thanks for all the hard work that is going in on this project by everyone.

 :beers:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on May 25, 2018, 02:29:59 AM
wow, looking really good. Well done to all involved.
 :beers:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JonHarbour on May 25, 2018, 05:01:02 AM
They look spectacular. Will go very nicely with the RevolutioN Type B tankers....
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 1936ace on May 25, 2018, 07:33:04 AM
I can see me adding to the three on order already.
Any chance of a quick video of it running
Cheers
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 25, 2018, 08:42:41 AM

Hi all,

Thanks for the positive comments - much appreciated. 

The engineer in China has done a very good job on the CAD and the tooling is really lovely, and we should also acknowledge the oversight of Colin Allbright. 

I believe his experience in designing the Farish 04 and 03 were invaluable in ensuring the model was as heavy as practicable and the internal arrangement was optimised. 

Colin's assessment is that for a first EP this is very good, and he is confident that what small niggles there are should be relatively straightforward to solve. 

My view is that in managing any project one of the most important elements is finding the right designers, engineers and manufacturers to work with.

I did record a video of the model in action and have sent it to the NGS publicity officer to be loaded onto our website in due course.

Going forward, and with the usual caveats, I think that painted samples by TINGS and models in production before the end of 2018 are not unrealstic aims.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 25, 2018, 08:57:56 AM
Good morning Ben

Thank you for this update and thank you for your work on the project, one of the many hats you have these days.

These look fantastic, it was only seeing the photo with one loco next to a small 4 wheel wagon in the background that reminded me how small these are.

May I ask what the current thinking is with livery options and how many will survive into production? Apologise if I have missed this....

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on May 25, 2018, 10:33:35 AM
May I ask what the current thinking is with livery options and how many will survive into production? Apologise if I have missed this....

Skyline2uk

All currently advertised livery options will be produced.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on May 25, 2018, 10:34:57 AM
Stunning model so far. Congratulations to all involved.


Bob
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on May 25, 2018, 10:39:08 AM
May I ask what the current thinking is with livery options and how many will survive into production? Apologise if I have missed this....

Skyline2uk

All currently advertised livery options will be produced.

Excellent, thanks for swift response  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: tutenkhamunsleeping on May 25, 2018, 10:54:02 AM
THe NGS has received first EP samples of its forthcoming Hunslet 0-6-0DH shunter.

Away wi'ya, that's bl**dy O gauge :no:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Cooper on May 25, 2018, 04:29:20 PM
They look absolutely stunning and are a credit to all the hard work invested in them by the team. Can’t wait to get my hands on the ones I’ve ordered!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 70000 on May 25, 2018, 04:43:05 PM
Well, that's certainly encouraged me to get a pre-order in for one within the next week, even if I have got a US outline layout..... :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on May 25, 2018, 04:44:51 PM
I am seriously considering ordering a few more of these for conversion to other models.  At an estimated price for a mechanism and DCC controller for such a small footprint 0-6-0 they look to be a good investment.

@Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94)   Ben is there an option for buying the mechanisms without bodies for less or will the undercoated model be available for less?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on May 25, 2018, 05:10:59 PM

Hi all,

Pricing is down to the shopkeeper.  We are getting some undecorated models.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: memsek on June 03, 2018, 09:59:02 PM
Gosh, that was quick!  Beat me to it, and I'd only just posted it on the NGS website!!

Mike B
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on June 03, 2018, 10:45:29 PM
Brilliant idea, this project just got even better!

Top marks fellas.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: robert shrives on June 04, 2018, 07:25:09 AM
 Hi
Saw one running at DEMU on the Revolution models display track - lovely runner and as said for a first off a grand piece of work.  I am sure several industrial layouts will blossom off this project.

Thanks to the gang producing this .

Robert   
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on June 04, 2018, 08:08:19 AM
I'm still dithering over which to order - any update please on when pre-orders will close?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on June 04, 2018, 08:46:51 AM
I also saw the N G S Shunter running on  the Revolution  stand and had a chat with Colin Allbright who told me that he is going to redevelop the gearing as he wasn’t happy as it was , it was slipping a bit pulling the B tanks but they are quite heavy ,I am very pleased with my Mollases tank which I also picked up at the time.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JonHarbour on June 04, 2018, 08:57:59 AM
How many was it pulling Bob? More than 24?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on June 04, 2018, 09:17:21 AM
I didn’t actually count them but I THINK there was about twelve tanks ,but as I said they are quite heavy and it has been shown in a video clip to be pulling twenty other type wagons , and that was only the first motorised unit and it is going to be re developed and of course it didn’t have ALL of the fittings so it wasn’t the full weight that the finished model will be .
I’m not an expert on these locos so I don’t know what the real locos could manage  but they are very very small ,the model is about the same length as one of the tanks , so I wouldn’t expect they could pull a huge train of full tanks anyway.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 04, 2018, 09:31:44 AM
Hi all,

The Hunslet samples are the first EPs to check the fit of mouldings, etched parts etc.  Here is a quick shot I snapped on the Revolution stand:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/94-040618091556-66028249.jpeg)

The model does run, but needs work now to tighten the chassis.  Contact between the worm and the top gear in the drive needs to be improved and the model has a tendency to wriggle from side to side.

It also does not have the PCB, which will improve the smoothness of running too.

We were running a short train of B-tanks on the Revolution stand (with a brake van) - the number varied as we sometimes lifted models out to show people - but I think for the Hunslet it was around 10 inc a brake van.

The next samples of the loco will be running samples designed to check the actual performance and will have these issues addressed.  To save time they may have have liveries applied for checking too.

We expect to have these in 6-8 weeks, after which time the model will be ready for production.

The order book won't close as such - we are producing a fixed number of each livery variant with the expectation that the shop will hold stock.

The best selling so far are the NCB two tone green, NCB olive green, BP and Esso so if you particularly want any of those ones I recommend ordering sooner rather than later.

Not surprisingly, the worst selling are the undecorated ones.  It's the old, old story - everyone says undecorated models are a great idea but no one actually buys them!!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 1936ace on June 04, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Instead of undecorated version I would have liked a Br blue or a Br green one .Yes I know that's not prototypical but I would of liked one to run on my layout without the need to paint one up
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on June 04, 2018, 10:51:09 AM
Just slightly off topic. I lost my receipts for my two pre-orders so sent an email to the shop asking, when convenient, could they possibly let me know which liveries I had ordered. This was at 10.14pm last night. At 10.35pm I received a reply from Adrian giving the requested information - excellent! I realise the NGS is run by volunteers but this is what you call 'customer service'!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 04, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
How about making the un-decorated model a full chassis and a bag of bits and reduce the price to make it attractive to scratch and kit builders. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 04, 2018, 11:39:23 AM
How about making the un-decorated model a full chassis and a bag of bits and reduce the price to make it attractive to scratch and kit builders. :thumbsup:

Hi there,

By the time you have paid for the completed chassis, and for the packaging to protect the unassembled bits, and modified the factory workstreams to produce the models in this form, the actual saving would be minimal.  It might even cost more.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JonHarbour on June 04, 2018, 11:58:15 AM
Reason I asked about how many was that I have 24 Type B tankers on order and wanted to know whether it would struggle in a shunting situation. Given what has been said, I have no concerns at all... :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 04, 2018, 12:39:13 PM

Hi Jon,

I'm not sure even once tightened up and fettled for production the Hunslet would be able to manage all 24 of your Class Bs in one go!  Mind you, I suspect the real thing would've struggled to move such a load at once if full of fuel; that's 840 tons!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: JonHarbour on June 04, 2018, 12:50:35 PM
Fair point Ben! I've been working out a plan for a layout with a fuel depot and was trying to figure out shunting moves. 24 at once might be a tad ambitious...  :D

Now when are you guys going to do the Type As... ;)

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on July 14, 2018, 02:37:12 PM
Heeeelp!

I currently have the NCB Olive Green and the 'Big John' shunters on pre-order. When we had an update a little while ago they announced there was a 50T and 55T variant.

I decided to order a 55T as the two I currently have on order are 50T.

Now...

...we had a post on here which explained the split in loco's, and the NCB Maroon was listed as 55T so I thought "Great! I'll have one."

Only problem is that on the NGS list it is described as a 50T.

Can someone in the know clarify which it is so I can make a decision.

Ta.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 1936ace on July 14, 2018, 03:19:38 PM
hi
I would like a br blue one so how hard would it be to paint one of the undecorated models up. Will the body/cab come apart and if so how many sections will it be for ease of painting them
thanks
Bart
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on July 14, 2018, 03:49:46 PM

Hello Bart,

Have you looked at the photos on pp26 and 27?  You'll see the cab is a single clear plastic moulding, so the windows would need masking off, and the bonnets are two separate mouldings.

In terms of painting, the hardest bit will probably be the warning stripes on each end, though the buffers come out making this bit easier.  Fox transfers do black stripes that might be simpler than trying to mask up the stripes.

It's a shame BR didn't actually have any of this type as we would probably have offered them as an alternative!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 1936ace on July 14, 2018, 08:21:10 PM
Thanks Ben,

Really appreciate the reply and the advice re the buffer beam stripes.

Ive never taken on a task as scary as painting a loco before but a work mate is a lot more confident(he scratch builds locos) but looks like Barts end might be getting a new bespoke shunter

Thanks again
Bart
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on July 14, 2018, 08:25:08 PM
Heeeelp!

I currently have the NCB Olive Green and the 'Big John' shunters on pre-order. When we had an update a little while ago they announced there was a 50T and 55T variant.

I decided to order a 55T as the two I currently have on order are 50T.

Now...

...we had a post on here which explained the split in loco's, and the NCB Maroon was listed as 55T so I thought "Great! I'll have one."

Only problem is that on the NGS list it is described as a 50T.

Can someone in the know clarify which it is so I can make a decision.

Ta.

 :bump:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on July 15, 2018, 01:08:59 AM

Hello all,

The NCB Maroon shunter is on the 55T chassis.  It may have been an earlier error that led us to describe it as 50T -we only discovered these variations as we started researching the prototype more thoroughly.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on July 15, 2018, 08:57:30 AM

Hello all,

The NCB Maroon shunter is on the 55T chassis.  It may have been an earlier error that led us to describe it as 50T -we only discovered these variations as we started researching the prototype more thoroughly.

cheers

Ben A.

Thanks for that Ben, so it is incorrectly listed on the NGS website then?

I'll get a third one ordered up.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ModN Dom on October 12, 2018, 07:00:02 PM
 :hellosign: I am looking forward to the release of the new Hunslet shunter. I was very fortunate and grateful to read the supplement with the last journal to realise the risks of using it on an electric track cleaning system as the 40V,  which can give the unwary fingers a nasty bite/shock, is likely to overwhelm the Hunslets electrics. The point of this ditty is to ensure other purchasers in the future are equally aware so that they cannot come back to the Society with dead Hunslets ??? :thankyousign: 
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on October 12, 2018, 09:39:40 PM
Indeed, on a DC layout never use any of the high frequency / high voltage track continuity maintainers (they're NOT cleaners) or high frequency  coach lighting systems when running decoder-fitted locos.    You cannot use these HF devices with DCC layouts anyway.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Paul-H on October 12, 2018, 10:26:08 PM
Given that this model will have the DCC decoder parts built into the PCB, so no plug for easy replacement I wonder what the spares situation will be like if for any reason the decoder blows, and as we all know well decoders can sometimes just blow, how many replacement PCB's are going to be held for future needs, I would have thought not a lot.

Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on October 13, 2018, 03:53:39 AM
Hello all,

Behind the scenes work has been taking place on this project and we have received samples of the PCB incorporating a DCC chip, flashing roof light and stay alive capacitor that will be at the heart of the loco.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/94-131018034615-69979683.jpeg)

The capacitor is the square brown block on the underside of the chip, which sits above the chassis weight in the short bonnet.  On the top, at one end, the three white headlight LEDs can be seen, while at the other end the single yellow flashing LED for the roof light is also visible.  The lights at the end of the long bonnet are on a separate PCB powered by the contacts either side of the yellow LED on the main board.

The 5p piece gives a good indication of how tiny they are!  They've been manufactured for us by CT Elektronik, and @Only Me (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1328) has been asked to test them!

I hope that makes sense!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on October 13, 2018, 06:18:59 AM
Ben - it would be useful to address the pcb spares issue raised in the post above yours, especially as there have been reports of QC issues with CT decoders.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on October 13, 2018, 06:36:11 AM

Hi there,

We will carry spares of the PCBs, both for warranty replacement and to sell to those who blow the chips through improper use.

And even if stocks run low we can get more easily enough - it's the design that took the time, making them is automated and quick.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Paul-H on October 13, 2018, 07:57:48 AM
Good to know spares will be kept, given how suseptable to sudden unexplained failure CT decoders can be, I know in my case 4 of the 5 I owned died without obvious reason and the failures of their sound decoders are legendary  8)

Any idea what the out of warranty cost of these PCB's will be?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: kirky on October 13, 2018, 09:40:27 AM

Hello all,

Behind the scenes work has been taking place on this project and we have received samples of the PCB incorporating a DCC socket, flashing roof light and stay alive capacitor that will be at the heart of the loco.

Hi @Ben A (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94)
You mention a DCC socket. Do you mean a socket - because I can t see one in the picture, or do you mean a dedicated DCC  decoder? I certainly looks more like a decoder than just a bog standard pcb with lights. I think having the cap included is a fantastic idea. Presumably this will set a new standard?

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on October 13, 2018, 10:10:45 AM
You mention a DCC socket. Do you mean a socket - because I can t see one in the picture, or do you mean a dedicated DCC  decoder?

Cheers
Kirky

Apologies - yes I meant decoder.  I have corrected the original post.  Thanks for spotting my blunder! I'll blame it on the fact that I was posting at 0353 during my break in the middle of a third night shift...

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on October 13, 2018, 12:23:46 PM
If the design is validated as OK then maybe as a sideline, the PCB could be split in half with flexible wires to connect the tracks and 'hey presto' those little Farish shunters could become useful as well ! Either sell the PCB's to Farish or to members direct, or both.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on October 13, 2018, 12:49:32 PM
Hi Ben
I guess the shunters will be set to work on D C as a default and that the lights will work as normal will the stay alive function work on D C or is that only for D C C ,you can tell I’m not very good with all this technology .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: bluedepot on October 13, 2018, 06:59:24 PM
"PCB incorporating a DCC chip, flashing roof light and stay alive capacitor"

ok, don't need flashing lights, but could you sell this pcb design to farish for the 03, 04, 08, 14...???!!!

anyway looking forward to the hunslet.  i ordered the ncb maroon version. 


tim



Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Les1952 on October 14, 2018, 11:33:01 PM
Ben mentioned some time back a tendency for the model to wiggle from side to side.

Both the green one I rode on at NCB Derwenthaugh and the maroon one I rode on at NCB Prince of Wales wiggled as they ran, though it might be fairer to say the one at Derwenthaugh lurched alarmingly. Then again  it succeeded a batch of Austerity saddletanks where you heard the knocking from their wheel flats before the exhaust even when working hard..

I've posted these pics before but they bear a second outing.

 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/1473-241217103841.jpeg)  The maroon one

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/59/1473-241217102736.jpeg)  the green one. 

Note the plated-in windows to the cab.  The green 50T loco is one of a batch of eight.  This is 501.

Les
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RichardBattersby on October 15, 2018, 08:34:33 AM
Wonderful pictures. Do you know if that was down to the short wheelbase or other factors?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on October 15, 2018, 10:32:10 AM

Hello Bob,

DCC chips work on DC - you don't need to do anything.

There is not "default setting"for it - the chip controls the model and while usually it responds to specific DCC commands, if it senses DC current it realises that it won't be getting specific command signals; so it simply sends volts to the motor, and the directional lights as well as operating the flashing light and controlling the stay-alive capacitor.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on November 22, 2018, 07:11:47 PM

Hello all,

The NGS has received painted samples of its forthcoming Hunslet 0-6-0DH shunter.

There are a few minor corrections to be made, and in transit the paint has chipped in places, though the factory says these issues will be addressed before final production.

A trio of NCB Hunslets - L-R: Snibston 2-tone green, Staffordshire maroon, Western Area olive green (the best selling version so far.)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/94-221118190408-71729158.jpeg)

Port Authority version based on two based at Workington Docks:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/94-221118190406-7172839.jpeg)

"Black Agnes" as seen at Oxwellmains cement works:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/94-221118190405-717261530.jpeg)

Harry Needle spot hire loco - this could feasibly be used "on hire" in any lineside facility - perfect for that unused corner of the layout!  Note 50p for scale!  These really are tiny - but surprisingly weighty.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/94-221118190404-71725309.jpeg)

All models have NEM couplers so Dapol easishunt coplers can easily be swapped in.

These models, and all the remaining samples, will be on display on the NGS stand at Warley and we are planning to lend some out to selected layouts at the show.

Cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 22, 2018, 08:02:43 PM
I thought the Western Green one had a flashing light on the roof but none of those liveries look as if they have one ,are these just as test units and the lights will be added on the final articles.
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on November 22, 2018, 08:34:03 PM
Woo-hoo!

Looks like Revolution will be my second port of call after the NGS stand to renew my membership.

Looking forward to seeing the Hunslets on Sunday.

 :claphappy:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 22, 2018, 08:45:48 PM
emjaybee ,I think they will possibly be on the N G S Stand as they are not really a Revolution Trains  product .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on November 22, 2018, 08:48:29 PM
I thought the Western Green one had a flashing light on the roof but none of those liveries look as if they have one ,are these just as test units and the lights will be added on the final articles.
Bob Tidbury

My list has the Olive Green example as being without a roof light, Bob.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ohlavache on November 22, 2018, 09:00:57 PM
They look so great !  :D
Any picture of the BP and the Caledonian versions please?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: mickd247 on November 22, 2018, 09:19:23 PM
Bob Tidbury

If you enlarge the photo with the Western Green liveried sample I think you can just see a clear beacon light on top, presume to be coloured yellow or orange on the production model.  Of course it could be that my eyesight is getting worse!

 :beers:

Mick
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on November 22, 2018, 09:59:05 PM
Lovely! I have three on order, the question is - is that enough?...

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on November 22, 2018, 11:51:01 PM
All bar the maroon and two-tone green samples illustrated are shown on the NGS website as having flashing lights. But it's not unusual for painted samples to differ from production versions.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on November 23, 2018, 01:55:05 AM
They look fantastic. Triple  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Philip. on November 23, 2018, 05:56:34 AM
Thanks for the update Ben, they look brilliant. Now, do I add to the two I already have on order?  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on November 23, 2018, 08:48:49 AM

Hello all,

This image of the RMS Locotec version shows the flashing light.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/94-231118084345-71744980.jpeg)

It is clear because the LED on the PCB is yellow; the "bulb" is just the end of the clear plastic light guide. So although it looks clear, it will flash yellow on the production models.

Also, please bear in mind that these samples are to test the colour and finish (eg I am not convinced by the shade of BSC yellow) and so many are not fitted with motors.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 23, 2018, 08:52:38 AM
They look fantastic. Triple  :thumbsup:

Triple thumbs up or you will be having three shunters? :hmmm: >:D

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on November 23, 2018, 08:54:02 AM
They look so good, I might!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on November 23, 2018, 09:33:24 AM
I'm going to have to get two ESSO shunters.
They are delightful.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on November 23, 2018, 02:49:34 PM
Ben showed me the samples earlier this week and they look stunning!  My reaction was I need to place an order for more (than the 2 already ordered!).

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on November 23, 2018, 03:27:03 PM
I have all the samples under my arm as I post this ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on November 23, 2018, 03:32:14 PM
I have all the samples under my arm as I post this ;)

You'll never make it out of the country alive, you swine!

 :no:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on November 23, 2018, 03:38:46 PM
emjaybee ,I think they will possibly be on the N G S Stand as they are not really a Revolution Trains  product .
Bob Tidbury

Just been reading back through the thread over a brew.

 :-[

Apologies to all concerned, Revolution will STILL be my second port of call after the NGS stand, however it'll be to see their other wares. I got a bit carried away as Ben A has many fingers in many pies and I got over excited and got confused.

I'm off for a lie down in a darkened brick before I get a good rub down with a house room.

 :dunce:

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railbank on November 23, 2018, 05:36:44 PM
British Steel colour - in answer to Ben A's doubts over the shade of colour for the British Steel Hunslets.

The loco's at British Steel Track Products, as Workington Works was known in the 80's/90's, were painted by the works engineering shops in yellow using BS4800 shade 08 E 51 - obviously it quickly weathered/faded as the works was directly on the West Cumbrian coast and the whole works would get covered in sea spray from the Solway Firth.

All works painting was done by hand and was usually done when the loco was in for major work such as an engine, transmission or wheel set change.

Happy days now long gone along with the works.


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: MacRat on November 24, 2018, 05:09:39 PM
This image of the RMS Locotec version shows the flashing light.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/94-231118084345-71744980.jpeg[/url])


Found the prototype: https://www.flickr.com/photos/84539378@N07/35745480295/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/84539378@N07/35745480295/in/photostream/) .  :doh: :'(

Somehow the flashy roof thingy also moved a bit  :D

Regarding the DCC chip, @Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94) or @Only Me (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1328), do you know which CT decoder version it is based on?
And looking at the pictures in post #403 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=36228.msg533638#msg533638), am I right that the usual 2 solder pads for not amplified function outputs are not provided? I was wondering if the flood lights on the roof could be added with a bit of surgery.

Thank you.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on November 24, 2018, 06:08:38 PM
Bespoke pcb specially made,leds on the pcb already for lights, no external pads for anything else
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: MacRat on November 24, 2018, 06:51:43 PM
Bespoke pcb specially made
Thank you for your answer, also, I already understood that the PCB is a specific design for the Hunslet by CT Electronics (tran.at). That was not the question. So I just guess that the 2 solder pads for additional function outputs are not there, and there is no way to tinker with anything, in contrast to stock DCX7x decoders. I assume full decoder manual comes with the Hunslet, until then I no longer ponder on this.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on November 25, 2018, 01:01:57 PM
Some outstanding news coming in from the Warley 2018 show today.

The NGS Hunslet shunter has won the Gwyn Humphries award for innovation.

Specifically, the award was in recognition of the NGS producing their first ever RTR powered locomotive model.

Previous winners of this award include Romiley Methodist Railway Modellers, Dave Jones, Locomotion Models, MERG and RevolutioN Trains.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/31102821907_19959ad946_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pos6m8)image2 (https://flic.kr/p/Pos6m8) by ScottyStitch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottystitch/), on Flickr

L to R - Ben A (NGS Vice President), Colin Albright (Designer of the NGS Hunslet 0-6-0) , Pete Waterman.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 25, 2018, 01:18:05 PM
Far far right Tim Hitch’s @Mirrlees (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=340)  arm  :D

But in all seriousness, congratulations to all  :thumbsup:

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on November 25, 2018, 01:23:01 PM
 :claphappy: Congratulations! I really hope I can afford (at least) one of these.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: PostModN66 on November 25, 2018, 01:23:10 PM
He was smarter on "The Hitman and Her" as I recall!

Cheers Jon  :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on November 25, 2018, 01:35:59 PM
Now that is a fantastic achievement for all involved.
Only need Kylie in the photo to complete the lineup, and they could sing "I could be so lucky..."


Very very well done!!!!!!!


One question - where are all the crowds that folk go on about?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on November 25, 2018, 05:19:30 PM
the ones running on the NGS stand today looked great and ran well. I was impressed by the weight which will surely aid adhesion and electrical pick up.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on November 25, 2018, 07:40:58 PM
Many congratulations - well deserved.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Les1952 on November 26, 2018, 09:18:23 PM
Some outstanding news coming in from the Warley 2018 show today.

The NGS Hunslet shunter has won the Gwyn Humphries award for innovation.

Specifically, the award was in recognition of the NGS producing their first ever RTR powered locomotive model.

Previous winners of this award include Romiley Methodist Railway Modellers, Dave Jones, Locomotion Models, MERG and RevolutioN Trains.


(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4821/31102821907_19959ad946_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Pos6m8)image2 (https://flic.kr/p/Pos6m8) by ScottyStitch (https://www.flickr.com/photos/scottystitch/), on Flickr

L to R - Ben A (NGS Vice President), Colin Albright (Designer of the NGS Hunslet 0-6-0) , Pete Waterman.

The exact wording on the citation sheet is as follows...

Reasons.

1.    While individual aspects have been done elsewhere this is a very small locomotive which combines many technical innovations in a new very small chipset.
2.   The price point for this loco to members is such that including a subscription to the society it is still below the RRP of an analogue 0-6-0 diesel from a major manufacturer.

Gwyn would have been well aware of the challenges in making such a locomotive and justifiably proud that a society of which he was a member would take on such a project




How do I know?  - I wrote it.....

Les

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dalek on November 27, 2018, 01:47:10 PM
He was smarter on "The Hitman and Her" as I recall!

Cheers Jon  :)


Sometimes  :D

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/3135-271118134644.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71947)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dalek on November 27, 2018, 01:48:34 PM
Well done guys   :thumbsup:

Looking forwards to getting a look at them at Model Rail Scotland in February

Craig
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on December 18, 2018, 03:05:41 PM
A penultimate reminder that the pre-order discounted price (£75*) for the Society’s Hunslet Shunter closes on 31st December 2018 (two weeks’ time).

After this date all orders will be subject to the full price (£82*). In addition there will be no further orders taken until all pre-orders have been received and dispatched to members.

Current timescales suggest production will begin immediately after Chinese New Year.

https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-order--deposit-284-c.asp (https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-order--deposit-284-c.asp)

*Correct at time of publication – subject to change based on final cost of production.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on December 18, 2018, 03:09:39 PM
A penultimate reminder that the pre-order discounted price (£75*) for the Society’s Hunslet Shunter closes on 31st December 2018 (two weeks’ time).

After this date all orders will be subject to the full price (£82*). In addition there will be no further orders taken until all pre-orders have been received and dispatched to members.

Current timescales suggest production will begin immediately after Chinese New Year.

https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-orde (https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-orde)…

*Correct at time of publication – subject to change based on final cost of production.

Bad link!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on December 18, 2018, 03:10:50 PM
Try this

https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-order--deposit-284-c.asp (https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-order--deposit-284-c.asp)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on December 18, 2018, 03:11:04 PM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/1328-181218150946.jpeg)

Testing shot ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on December 18, 2018, 03:12:35 PM
A penultimate reminder that the pre-order discounted price (£75*) for the Society’s Hunslet Shunter closes on 31st December 2018 (two weeks’ time).

After this date all orders will be subject to the full price (£82*). In addition there will be no further orders taken until all pre-orders have been received and dispatched to members.

Current timescales suggest production will begin immediately after Chinese New Year.

https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-orde (https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-orde)…

*Correct at time of publication – subject to change based on final cost of production.

Bad link!

Apologies and Thank you.

Corrected now.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on December 18, 2018, 03:13:08 PM
That's a five plank wagon! They are really so small. I had better order another ESSO. Those Class B tanks might need some shunting.

Bob
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on December 18, 2018, 03:14:26 PM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/72/1328-181218150946.jpeg)

Testing shot ;)

Cute  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on December 18, 2018, 03:34:46 PM
Thank you, I definitely needed that reminder! :beers:



@NGS-PO (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=6239)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Railwaygun on December 18, 2018, 06:59:03 PM
working now!

https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-order--deposit-284-c.asp (https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-order--deposit-284-c.asp)

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on December 21, 2018, 08:10:14 PM
The director's of Thetford Road are pleased to announce the placing of an order, today, for a bright yellow Hunslet. This colour was chosen dispute lobbying by Express Dairies for a Caledonian Blue one. However this was turned down by Health & Safety because it doesn't have a flashing light.....
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on December 31, 2018, 11:44:10 AM
Today is the last day that the membership can pre-order their Hunslet DH 0-6-0 shunter at the reduced price.

After today there will be no more orders taken until the models are in stock and the pre-orders have been satisfied.

Time, Ladies and Gentlemen, Please!

Best

Scott

https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-orde (https://www.ngsjoin.com/hunslet-industrial-shunter-pre-orde)…


Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Sparky-san on January 04, 2019, 05:30:09 PM
 :( Typical. I only get to see this 4 days after orders are closed! Oh well my silver bullets just won't get to unload at Caledonian Paper.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on January 04, 2019, 05:40:42 PM
:( Typical. I only get to see this 4 days after orders are closed! Oh well my silver bullets just won't get to unload at Caledonian Paper.

In fairness, I also put a reminder up on the 18th....

In any case, despair not, the models will be available to purchase later in the year when they have been delivered and the pre-orders have been despatched.

It is anticipated that there will be more than enough to go around.

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 04, 2019, 05:55:14 PM
...and in the Journal...
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: nookfield on January 04, 2019, 06:17:39 PM
...and in the Journal...

...with the wrong cut off date for orders
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: nookfield on January 04, 2019, 06:23:46 PM
:( Typical. I only get to see this 4 days after orders are closed! Oh well my silver bullets just won't get to unload at Caledonian Paper.

In fairness, I also put a reminder up on the 18th....

In any case, despair not, the models will be available to purchase later in the year when they have been delivered and the pre-orders have been despatched.

It is anticipated that there will be more than enough to go around.

Best

Scott

… and cost £7 more

Since the mess up with the pre order date surely some leeway should be allowed to members?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on January 04, 2019, 06:26:52 PM
...and in the Journal...

...with the wrong cut off date for orders
I've only just noticed the typo. I would have thought most people who have been watching the development of this model would have known how close to production the model was and would also have expected the cutoff date to be 2018 not 2019 and would have done what I did which was to read it as 2018. We might be getting them by 31 Dec 2019!

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: nookfield on January 04, 2019, 06:34:17 PM
...and in the Journal...

...with the wrong cut off date for orders
I've only just noticed the typo. I would have thought most people who have been watching the development of this model would have known how close to production the model was and would also have expected the cutoff date to be 2018 not 2019 and would have done what I did which was to read it as 2018. We might be getting them by 31 Dec 2019!

Yes I realised the date was probably wrong. The N Gauge website still says delivery for second half of 2018 (I think that was missed :)). But it also states that the anticipated cut-off date is 31 December 2018. No mention of the actual cut off date.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on January 04, 2019, 07:09:13 PM
There is a correction required in this issue of the Journal.

The cut-off date for pre-ordering the Hunslet Shunters is stated as 31/12/2019.

This is incorrect, it should read 31/12/2018

After this date the order book will close and purchases will not be possible until the pre-ordered.......erm, orders have been despatched and the remaining models are on general sale. At that point the Shunters will cost the full price, and not the discounted pre-order price.

I hope that makes sense.

Best

Scott

Whilst it wasn't myself who printed the wrong date in the journal, you're right it is unfortunate that the error was made. Apologies on behalf of the society.

However, I posted the above at the end of November. Also there is a news item on the NGS webpage from 25th November and 18th December stating the cut off date of 31/12/18. I've also issued a number of reminders via Facebook, Twitter, and the NGS' Groups.io page (I appreciate that not everyone is a Facebook member, but at least a thousand members are) to the extent that I was beginning to feel I was boring everyone with the reminders......

I feel I've tried as best I could to get the information out. It's unfortunate if anyone feels otherwise.

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: woodbury22uk on January 04, 2019, 08:18:42 PM
:( Typical. I only get to see this 4 days after orders are closed! Oh well my silver bullets just won't get to unload at Caledonian Paper.

In fairness, I also put a reminder up on the 18th....

In any case, despair not, the models will be available to purchase later in the year when they have been delivered and the pre-orders have been despatched.

It is anticipated that there will be more than enough to go around.

Best

Scott

… and cost £7 more

Since the mess up with the pre order date surely some leeway should be allowed to members?

Would it help if I gave you the £7, so you are not out of pocket?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: nookfield on January 04, 2019, 08:25:11 PM
:( Typical. I only get to see this 4 days after orders are closed! Oh well my silver bullets just won't get to unload at Caledonian Paper.

In fairness, I also put a reminder up on the 18th....

In any case, despair not, the models will be available to purchase later in the year when they have been delivered and the pre-orders have been despatched.

It is anticipated that there will be more than enough to go around.

Best

Scott

… and cost £7 more

Since the mess up with the pre order date surely some leeway should be allowed to members?

Would it help if I gave you the £7, so you are not out of pocket?

No I ordered 3 for myself before the cut-off date. It is @Sparky-san (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7111) who is going to be financially worse off.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on January 04, 2019, 08:55:26 PM
You'd have to have been living in an unconnected bubble to avoid knowing that the cut-off was the end of last year. If anyone has actually missed the cut-off date I'm afraid that's probably got more to do with just putting off ordering rather than mis-communication. I ordered my first two over eighteen months ago and my third one a few weeks ago. I think the N Gauge Society has done an outstanding job with the whole project considering that they're all volunteers with their own lives.

Look forward to delivery, especially as I've only got the postage left to pay on them. Thanks for the payment instalment option fellas.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on January 04, 2019, 09:37:04 PM
Yep, even living where I do, I was aware of the cut off date.

I put my deposit in on New Year's Eve!!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on January 04, 2019, 09:43:41 PM
I was living in that bubble. After ordering one way back, I dithered other further orders. I knew I wanted more but couldn't decide which ones. I finally left the bubble at about 11:50 on NYE. Having completed my order for two more, I checked the time. It was 00:02 on New Years Day. :sweat:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Sparky-san on January 05, 2019, 08:41:53 AM
It is my fault for not seeing the development of the model, however, I only joined in November ‘18, and since then have been dealing with a family member with mental health problems and gathering items for my first build,
No matter, I will wait for possible later availability at the higher price.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on January 05, 2019, 08:46:10 AM
It is my fault for not seeing the development of the model, however, I only joined in November ‘18, and since then have been dealing with a family member with mental health problems and gathering items for my first build,
No matter, I will wait for possible later availability at the higher price.

Ah, yes, you were quite late to the party so to speak. That's unfortunate timing all round. Not to worry, even at the 'after development' price these shunters are a flippin' good deal. I got to see the painted samples up at Warley and they are fantastic.

Good to have you on board.

 :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: 70000 on February 07, 2019, 07:12:46 AM
Just spotted this on the US "Trainorders" website...
https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4727157 (https://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?1,4727157)
Appears to still be a working Hunslet diesel (albeit an 0-4-0) in deepest Mexico, so the three in Vancouver, BC, weren't the only exports to North America (if Mexico is considered "north"...). 
Interestingly it is fitted with both buffers and a knuckle coupler, so that now justifies the one I have ordered running in that condition on my US outline layout !! :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on April 04, 2019, 11:05:56 AM
It's been a while....may we have a project update please?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on April 04, 2019, 11:22:34 AM

Hi all,

The models are in production, but we don't know how long it will take before they are ready to ship.  Probably another month or so - I think they are just waiting for delivery of the PCBs to complete the chassis, but the bodies are all painted.

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on April 04, 2019, 11:35:35 AM
Woo-hoo!!!

 :claphappy:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on April 04, 2019, 11:38:36 AM
 :claphappy: and I’ve even got the money from Christmas to pay for it .for once :bounce:  should be a lovely little shunter for my preserved railway yard .
Rule one purchase .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on April 04, 2019, 11:46:50 AM
I'm even happier, I made use of the staged payment option, I've only got the postage left to pay on the three of them.

 ;D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on April 04, 2019, 09:07:28 PM
Really good news. I'm really looking forward to this jaunty little model.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on April 04, 2019, 09:11:28 PM
Should be a great addition to any layout when they arrive, it was fun to test and tweak the eps so you all get a great model when they arrive...

Ive also created a close copy of the class 07 body printed on a high quality computerised resin printer which will straight swap onto the Hunslet chassis for a bit of variety in industrial settings ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on April 04, 2019, 09:15:34 PM
Cool!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: kirky on April 05, 2019, 10:50:42 PM
Do we know which liveries are definitely being produced?
Apologies if I missed this.

Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: nookfield on April 06, 2019, 12:39:06 AM
Do we know which liveries are definitely being produced?
Apologies if I missed this.

Cheers
Kirky

All 15 variants were on display at Warley

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119385-ngs-hunslet-shunter/&do=findComment&comment=3374159 (https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/119385-ngs-hunslet-shunter/&do=findComment&comment=3374159)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nick on April 07, 2019, 01:10:23 PM
The models are in production, but we don't know how long it will take before they are ready to ship.  Probably another month or so - I think they are just waiting for delivery of the PCBs to complete the chassis, but the bodies are all painted.
Excellent news!

Are the instructions on the NGS order page still correct? I.e. we sit tight until we receive a balance request? (Only asking because the page itself indicates it's there for archive purposes only.)

To my amazement, I've managed to find the emails confirming that I paid my £20, so hopefully I'm in the system somewhere...   :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on April 14, 2019, 03:57:39 PM
Ive also created a close copy of the class 07 body printed on a high quality computerised resin printer which will straight swap onto the Hunslet chassis for a bit of variety in industrial settings ;)
Hi there

I like the sound of the 07 shunter. I have built a number of Etched Pixel's 07s on the Bachfar 04 chassis.
Have you done the 07 itself, or the Army Ruston that looked a bit like an 07?
How does it match up sizewise?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/45637958182 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/rgadsdon/45637958182)
Best
Bob
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on April 19, 2019, 10:06:26 PM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1328-190419220253.jpeg)

This is a hasty print AA is turned off so ignore the horizontal lines... they wont be on the finished  print... obviously this body wont be for the purists as its made to fit the Hunslet chassis which is a tad long but to be fair will be a good swap for those who fancy something different.. will print and paint a smooth one very soon....Maybe we’ll call it the Class 07.5 🤔

Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on April 19, 2019, 10:19:18 PM
Looks great!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on April 19, 2019, 11:04:04 PM
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/76/1328-190419220253.jpeg)

This is a hasty print AA is turned off so ignore the horizontal lines... they wont be on the finished  print... obviously this body wont be for the purists as its made to fit the Hunslet chassis which is a tad long but to be fair will be a good swap for those who fancy something different.. will print and paint a smooth one very soon....Maybe we’ll call it the Class 07.5 🤔

Paul

As you say, its Class 07.5, as it does look a bit stretched, but for those who dont like the idea of a brass kit on the right wheelbase of the 03/04, its kinda interesting. I think it would do better as the Army version (see my earlier link to the Army pic) as the loco does look a bit stretched. The windows should not be vertical on the front face, but angled, whether it is the 07 or the Army version.

HTH
Bob
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on May 10, 2019, 08:48:54 PM
Anyone got any updates as to delivery, I keep checking the club website but nothing. Chinese New year must be long gone? Getting a bit impatient,  got 3 locos with sound now need that flashing light  :D
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on May 10, 2019, 10:47:12 PM
... got 3 locos with sound now need that flashing light  :D

You could do 15 flashing lights for a tenner with this! 
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-x-auto-flash-blink-twinkle-0402-SMD-nano-12V-led-Wired-Police-ambulance-car-/152162057161 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/15-x-auto-flash-blink-twinkle-0402-SMD-nano-12V-led-Wired-Police-ambulance-car-/152162057161)
Seems to be a separate flasher unit in the wiring, so if you need a different colour then just buy the above plus a bunch of regular prewired 0402s in the colour you want.

Alternatively just get the regular non-flashing LEDs with resistors and use a lighting effect in the decoder.  Most decoders seem to include a choice of lighting effects these days, which can be selected for each function output.  The Gyra light effect (as found on decoders aimed at the american market) would seem appropriate.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on June 16, 2019, 12:36:05 PM
Just noting from a previous Journal update that it was hoped that these were to have been shipped at the end of March but that there was to be a "slight delay". Two and a half months on from that and over a month on from Dicky DCC's unanswered question above, is anyone on the NGS product side able to provide a current progress update? I know delivery slippages are almost inevitable with new and innovative products like this, but it would still be good to know, and in addition if there is any revised delivery timescale?


Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on June 16, 2019, 12:53:08 PM
Hi all,

Apologies, hadn't seen the earleir post.

The PCBs incorporating the DCC chip, stay alive etc have taken a while longer to manufacture than we were quoted.

Once there is more concrete news we'll post it.

cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on July 25, 2019, 05:48:39 PM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 25, 2019, 05:58:08 PM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.

Going through the article I read with dread that they were using CT Elektronik chips.  CT Elektronik are atrocious, as DCC Supplies and a litany of unanswered emails will confirm, having to give up on both an order for new chips and to get a replacement chip.  This was 18 months ago and DCC Supplies who was the only remaining retailer in the UK at that time were tearing their hair out.  If my experience is anything to go by May 2020 is very optimistic.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on July 25, 2019, 06:44:11 PM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.

Going through the article I read with dread that they were using CT Elektronik chips.  CT Elektronik are atrocious, as DCC Supplies and a litany of unanswered emails will confirm, having to give up on both an order for new chips and to get a replacement chip.  This was 18 months ago and DCC Supplies who was the only remaining retailer in the UK at that time were tearing their hair out.  If my experience is anything to go by May 2020 is very optimistic.

@Snowwolflair (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761) as ever  always the optimist.....

Two things here to point out if i may before you begin your scaremongering.

This is a brand new chip type made specifically for the NGS you cannot buy it elsewhere, the chips were tested thoroughly including metering and measuring with scopes.  We hope any bugs and potential issues have now been mitigated thus the slight delay whilst CT took on our findings and resolved them to satisfaction.  There is also a JMRi file made for the decoders.

They however (as per most if not all other dcc chips) will not tolerate feedback controllers in dc or the older Relco spark your track cleaner. - The manual warns about these and you will void your warranty if you persist to use the aforementioned with this loco.  We were able to see exactly which component the relco blows so it will be easy to tell if one was used. As for feedback controllers as most will know they destroy coreless motors which again is easy to diagnose.

Please do feel free to pm and queries and i shall get you an answer.

Cheers Paul
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 25, 2019, 06:54:05 PM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.

Going through the article I read with dread that they were using CT Elektronik chips.  CT Elektronik are atrocious, as DCC Supplies and a litany of unanswered emails will confirm, having to give up on both an order for new chips and to get a replacement chip.  This was 18 months ago and DCC Supplies who was the only remaining retailer in the UK at that time were tearing their hair out.  If my experience is anything to go by May 2020 is very optimistic.

@Snowwolflair (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3761) as ever  always the optimist.....

Two things here to point out if i may before you begin your scaremongering.

This is a brand new chip type made specifically for the NGS you cannot buy it elsewhere, the chips were tested thoroughly including metering and measuring with scopes.  We hope any bugs and potential issues have now been mitigated thus the slight delay whilst CT took on our findings and resolved them to satisfaction.  There is also a JMRi file made for the decoders.

They however (as per most if not all other dcc chips) will not tolerate feedback controllers in dc or the older Relco spark your track cleaner.

I'm not worried about the chip working, whilst their architecture is unconventional the founder/designer is ex Zimo and his chips work. 

The problem DCC had was getting them to deliver new stock and replace faulty chips, and we do seem to be delayed.  :)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on July 25, 2019, 06:55:52 PM
We have had plenty of extras made and the shop will stock spares if necessary for warranty and non warranty replacements - although during tests the voltage to kill a chip was far greater than all n gauge controllers put out on DC and on dcc far over that for dcc nmra standards
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on July 25, 2019, 07:01:58 PM
Ok thanks for the info, I can follow instructions & am on DCC.... Can you please tell me when my loco is going to get to me?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on July 25, 2019, 07:03:24 PM
Ok thanks for the info, I can follow instructions & am on DCC.... Can you please tell me when my loco is going to get to me?

You would need to use proper channels and contact the NGS shop via email
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on July 25, 2019, 07:05:25 PM
Thanks for your help
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ScottishModeller on July 25, 2019, 08:24:05 PM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.
Hi there,

You are not alone in your confusion....

I am also in that club.

Phil H
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BobB on July 25, 2019, 08:48:37 PM
Just thinking about my next layout....... Will the hunslet manage less than 9 inch curves, maybe 6 inch ? The 4 maybe 5 inch width reduction would be most welcome.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on July 25, 2019, 10:13:03 PM
Just thinking about my next layout....... Will the hunslet manage less than 9 inch curves, maybe 6 inch ? The 4 maybe 5 inch width reduction would be most welcome.

Not normally a problem for short wheelbase 4-coupled and 6-coupled locos to go below 9", but 6" is pushing things and terribly unrealistic :-)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on July 25, 2019, 11:13:43 PM

Hello all,

Apologies, not had a chance to reply until now.  In answer to some of the questions and points raised...

1) CT ELEKTRONIK: At the time this project was started, only CT had a chip small enough to fit in the Hunslet.  I spoke to DCC Supplies quite a lot, and they were invaluable in helping us with discussions.

2). DELIVERY.  The bodyshells are ready.  Packaging etc is all done.  We are waiting for the PCBs, being manufactured in Austria, to be sent to China for final assembly to be completed.  I do not know how long this will take, but I have been told there is no reason the models will not be here by Q4 2019.  As ever please understand that may change.

3). MINIMUM RADIUS.  The model is happy on 9" radius curves.  I have not tested it on any smaller because I don't own any!

4). CONTROLLERS AND RELCOS.  The PCB/chip has been destruction tested in a laboratory and corresponded to NMRA standards.  It can stand a voltage spike of up to 24V.  However, some old controllers can send out even higher spikes, and sometimes overloads for more than a few milliseconds.  In the same way that you wouldn't expect to get top performance from your modern car if you filled it with old, two-star petrol, 25+ year old controllers *may* cause damage.  We suggest if you want to use something like a Duette the test it with a voltmeter first.  Also, as with all DCC fitted models, Relco track cleaners should not be used.  If you have one turn it off while running your Hunslet!

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP/)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on July 26, 2019, 12:32:01 AM
thanks for the update Ben, hopefully we will see them in our Christmas stockings.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on July 26, 2019, 06:12:17 AM
Indeed much thanks for the update .
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Nigel Cliffe on July 27, 2019, 10:12:07 AM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.
Hi there,

You are not alone in your confusion....

I am also in that club.

I don't have inside information on delivery.  But, I'd read the Committee minutes which quote "Factory ready after 5th Dec 2019 (after Chinese New Year) ready to ship April to arrive early May" as having an error which makes it read a year late  (Chinese New Year for 2019 was 5th Feb) .   Note that the column in question is minutes of a meeting held in January 2019, and around then, delivery in May 2019 was probably the target. 

Ben A's reply above has the current information on dates.
 

I have had a pre-production example on my bench since Jan/Feb.  I wrote the JMRI/DecoderPro file for the decoder, and did a bit of DCC testing and bug finding for the NGS design team (the bugs Paul mentions in his answer above).   


4). CONTROLLERS AND RELCOS.  ………..  We suggest if you want to use something like a Duette the test it with a voltmeter first. 

Note that many old controller designs, including old H&M designs, will give different voltmeter readings without load (no train present) to those with an applied load (train present).   And that most voltmeters won't be able to detect any spikes in voltage.     
My personal view would be "don't use an ancient old controller", and I'd apply that to not only the Hunslet, but most modern N RTR locos.   But that's a personal view, and I'm not the person who did the DC testing of the Hunslet. 


- Nigel
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 27, 2019, 10:17:50 AM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.
Hi there,

You are not alone in your confusion....

I am also in that club.

I don't have inside information on delivery.  But, I'd read the Committee minutes which quote "Factory ready after 5th Dec 2019 (after Chinese New Year) ready to ship April to arrive early May" as having an error which makes it read a year late  (Chinese New Year for 2019 was 5th Feb) .   Note that the column in question is minutes of a meeting held in January 2019, and around then, delivery in May 2019 was probably the target. 

Ben A's reply above has the current information on dates.
 

I have had a pre-production example on my bench since Jan/Feb.  I wrote the JMRI/DecoderPro file for the decoder, and did a bit of DCC testing and bug finding for the NGS design team (the bugs Paul mentions in his answer above).   


4). CONTROLLERS AND RELCOS.  ………..  We suggest if you want to use something like a Duette the test it with a voltmeter first. 

Note that many old controller designs, including old H&M designs, will give different voltmeter readings without load (no train present) to those with an applied load (train present).   And that most voltmeters won't be able to detect any spikes in voltage.     
My personal view would be "don't use an ancient old controller", and I'd apply that to not only the Hunslet, but most modern N RTR locos.   But that's a personal view, and I'm not the person who did the DC testing of the Hunslet. 


- Nigel

Nigel could an "approved" list of controllers be published. 
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on July 27, 2019, 10:22:04 AM
Reading the latest Journal it says that the models should be on the way from HK by now but the Chairmans notes indicate we won't get them until May next year. Or have I got that wrong? Sorry if I am muddled, just after ab update please.
Hi there,

You are not alone in your confusion....

I am also in that club.

I don't have inside information on delivery.  But, I'd read the Committee minutes which quote "Factory ready after 5th Dec 2019 (after Chinese New Year) ready to ship April to arrive early May" as having an error which makes it read a year late  (Chinese New Year for 2019 was 5th Feb) .   Note that the column in question is minutes of a meeting held in January 2019, and around then, delivery in May 2019 was probably the target. 

Ben A's reply above has the current information on dates.
 

I have had a pre-production example on my bench since Jan/Feb.  I wrote the JMRI/DecoderPro file for the decoder, and did a bit of DCC testing and bug finding for the NGS design team (the bugs Paul mentions in his answer above).   


4). CONTROLLERS AND RELCOS.  ………..  We suggest if you want to use something like a Duette the test it with a voltmeter first. 

Note that many old controller designs, including old H&M designs, will give different voltmeter readings without load (no train present) to those with an applied load (train present).   And that most voltmeters won't be able to detect any spikes in voltage.     
My personal view would be "don't use an ancient old controller", and I'd apply that to not only the Hunslet, but most modern N RTR locos.   But that's a personal view, and I'm not the person who did the DC testing of the Hunslet. 


- Nigel

Nigel could an "approved" list of controllers be published.

I would suggest 'guidance' on types of controller.

Naming brands etc. has the potential for accusations of 'my shunter/loco blew up because you said Controller ABC would be okay'.

Personally I think the advice and suggestions already given are more than adequate.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on July 27, 2019, 03:51:15 PM
We quite often get asked what controllers are approved and the simple answer is that it is impossible for any manufacturer to test all the possibilities. We test with a variety of DC and DCC controllers and as other have said it is easier to say the type/style of controllers that do work than specific brands or models of controllers.

DCC is relatively simple as NMRA gives certain guidelines that most work to.

DC is a minefield for any "modern" loco with circuitry as so many well-established controllers throw out some pretty horrible voltage spikes. I'd always say pick either a simple DC controller (like the Farish set controller) or something more sophisticated that is a reasonably modern design and build.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 27, 2019, 04:12:07 PM
It's out club experience that the Morley VESTA N range is compatible with the DCC chips we have used to date.  I would need to check the voltage but my guess as it works with other CT chips, particularly the sound one SL76 (a noted temperamental beast) it is likely to be good with the Hunslet.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on July 27, 2019, 11:21:44 PM
Wonder how I'm going to go on the section of my layout with me homemade handheld powered from a 1963 Triang P5 transformer!

Bit of testing with the goodole DDM, methinks!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 27, 2019, 11:25:54 PM
Wonder how I'm going to go on the section of my layout with me homemade handheld powered from a 1963 Triang P5 transformer!

Bit of testing with the goodole DDM, methinks!

Test it on the AC range as well to get an idea if there are any spikes.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on July 27, 2019, 11:29:38 PM
Cheers. Will do!  :beers:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NinOz on July 28, 2019, 02:58:21 AM
Wonder how I'm going to go on the section of my layout with me homemade handheld powered from a 1963 Triang P5 transformer!

Bit of testing with the goodole DDM, methinks!
Wouldn't you use your oscilloscope?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on July 28, 2019, 04:03:29 AM
Both!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Gnep on July 28, 2019, 08:50:24 AM
So one of my DC controllers is a home-built high frequency PWM jobbie - an Arduino nano using hardware PWM set to 31kHz driving a DRV8871 motor driver (chopper H-bridge) with current limiter set to 2A (which in theory could mean that there is an even higher frequency from the DRV8871 layered on top if we ever see the full 2A current draw). Peak voltage is very well regulated at just under 12V and I think (can't remember the code precisely) that the maximum duty cycle never quite reaches 100%.

Is this likely to confuse the electronics on board? I'd be happy (ish) to test when they arrive, but it'd be nice to get a warning first if I really shouldn't even try!

It works well with all other locos I've tried it on from old Minitrix and ancient Farish to much more recent coreless motors and everything in-between. Nothing with any DCC on board though as I don't have any to test.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 28, 2019, 09:38:33 AM
So one of my DC controllers is a home-built high frequency PWM jobbie - an Arduino nano using hardware PWM set to 31kHz driving a DRV8871 motor driver (chopper H-bridge) with current limiter set to 2A (which in theory could mean that there is an even higher frequency from the DRV8871 layered on top if we ever see the full 2A current draw). Peak voltage is very well regulated at just under 12V and I think (can't remember the code precisely) that the maximum duty cycle never quite reaches 100%.

Is this likely to confuse the electronics on board? I'd be happy (ish) to test when they arrive, but it'd be nice to get a warning first if I really shouldn't even try!

It works well with all other locos I've tried it on from old Minitrix and ancient Farish to much more recent coreless motors and everything in-between. Nothing with any DCC on board though as I don't have any to test.

I would buffer it with at least 5ohm 5 watt resister to start with just in case.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on July 28, 2019, 11:17:05 AM
So one of my DC controllers is a home-built high frequency PWM jobbie - an Arduino nano using hardware PWM set to 31kHz driving a DRV8871 motor driver (chopper H-bridge) with current limiter set to 2A (which in theory could mean that there is an even higher frequency from the DRV8871 layered on top if we ever see the full 2A current draw). Peak voltage is very well regulated at just under 12V and I think (can't remember the code precisely) that the maximum duty cycle never quite reaches 100%.

Is this likely to confuse the electronics on board? I'd be happy (ish) to test when they arrive, but it'd be nice to get a warning first if I really shouldn't even try!

It works well with all other locos I've tried it on from old Minitrix and ancient Farish to much more recent coreless motors and everything in-between. Nothing with any DCC on board though as I don't have any to test.

Having some knowledge of the decoder being used, I would say your controller won’t blow it up. What I couldn’t say with any certainty is whether or not your signal will confuse the decoder. It has two basic modes of operation, DC and DCC. When there is enough volts on the track (around 4.5) the decoder’s processor wakes up. It then decides the mode. How it decides the mode exactly I do not know. Your chopped DC may, or may not, be enough to convince it that there is a DCC signal on the track. If it thinks it is DCC then clearly there would not be a valid packet, so it won’t move.

The decoder is really designed to run on either DCC or DC. DC means exactly that. DC should *not* be interpreted as anything that is not DCC.

If you want to bridge out the decoder it is not that hard. The motor’s leads are soldered to two pads on the pcb. Close by are a pair of screws that both fix the pcb to the chassis and bring in the track feed. It is not impossible to relocate the motor wires to the track feed screws.

A good first test of running, if you don’t have a known good dc controller to hand is to rig up an oval test track and then apply a PP9 battery across the track
(Terminals are conveniently N gauge spacing!) The loco should then run smoothly at a relatively low speed.

As a further aid to understanding how it works, the decoder does intervene slightly in DC mode. In this mode the track voltage is switched through to the motor, so a change in track voltage amplitude will change the voltage on the motor terminals. To aid slow speed running, which is prototypical for this shunter, the track voltage is chopped on and off by a fixed duty cycle. By default this is 25%. So the track voltage is only applied to the motor 25% of the time. It’s done at quite a high frequency (I forget the exact value) so the motor sees the average value, ie one quarter of the track voltage. This gives very good slow speed performance, and at 12v track voltage a top speed that is approximately the scale top speed of the real thing. You can change this 25% value to anything between 0 and 100%, but you will need a DCC programmer. There is a DCC CV register that holds this value. Under normal circumstances I can’t see a need to change it, but perhaps someone might want a souped up racing Hunslet.

Under DCC the default CV values set a realistic top speed and speed curve.

Given the space available the decoder pcb does a very good job. You really would struggle to fit any other sort of decoder and maintain all the functionality, ie the directional lighting and the flashing beacon.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on July 28, 2019, 11:26:53 AM
Having desperately read through the above as a DC dinosaur, all I need to do then, is try it with a 9V battery?

Why didn't you say so  ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 28, 2019, 11:37:35 AM
TRIX have been shipping models configured this way for about 12 years with stable results, so what is being used in the Hunslet is neither new or novel which should go a long way to reassure anyone worried.

The big danger with any model with DCC, not just the Hunslet, is running on a club or other unfamiliar layout where either the DCC is set with too high a voltage (for OO or O not N) or in DC where the underlying voltage is too high or is a pre-DCC era controller with spikes or is PMW at an unsuitable frequency. 

The modern mainstream DC controllers I have used generally work well with DCC models as they have adapted their designs for this very reason.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Izzy on July 28, 2019, 11:44:56 AM

Forgive me please because my electronics knowledge is quite limited but the current limiter setting of 2A seems far too high for my comfort. Many DCC decoders maximum outputs are around the 0.8a level or less and I have run several locos at once with a total current draw of just 250Ma. Half that figure, 1A, would be better if possible I feel.

Izzy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 28, 2019, 11:53:37 AM

Forgive me please because my electronics knowledge is quite limited but the current limiter setting of 2A seems far too high for my comfort. Many DCC decoders maximum outputs are around the 0.8a level or less and I have run several locos at once with a total current draw of just 250Ma. Half that figure, 1A, would be better if possible I feel.

Izzy

Its a dead short protection to protect the DCC System not the loco.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Izzy on July 28, 2019, 12:25:25 PM
 
Quote from: Snowwolflair link=topic=36228.msg581066#msg581066 date=1564311217
Its a dead short protection to protect the DCC System not the loco.
[/quote

Yes, but the controller is a DC one, or doesn't that matter, it will work just the same, no different effect on the DCC decoder?

Izzy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on July 28, 2019, 12:38:58 PM
Having desperately read through the above as a DC dinosaur, all I need to do then, is try it with a 9V battery?

Why didn't you say so  ;)

Sorry :)

Ok, the key point is if it runs fine on a 9v battery you have a good locomotive. If it then runs poorly with your controller please don’t blame the loco.

To get things into perspective, it ought to work just fine with the majority of modern controllers.

Just as an aside, the Bachmann/Farish DC trainset controller puts out a surprisingly high voltage at full throttle, around 22v with no load. The Hunslet takes very little current, so it sees around 21v from this controller. It survives it well. It’s been run up to 32v without issue, though the components start to get hot, so I wouldn’t recommend doing this for an extended period if you don’t want to see warped body work. It’s worth bearing in mind, not just for the Hunslet, that running a loco in at full throttle on a Bachmann/Farish controller may not be a good idea. Always worth sticking a multimeter across the track.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on July 28, 2019, 01:59:40 PM

Just as an aside, the Bachmann/Farish DC trainset controller puts out a surprisingly high voltage at full throttle, around 22v with no load. .... It’s worth bearing in mind, not just for the Hunslet, that running a loco in at full throttle on a Bachmann/Farish controller may not be a good idea. Always worth sticking a multimeter across the track.

Though surely it would be flying off the rails at that well below sort of voltage?!   :D

I have a few DCC fitted locos that run on my DC line from time to time, driven by KPC "exhibition grade" controllers dating from the 80s.  They behave just fine, though a couple prefer the feedback circuit to be switched out - as do some  plain DC locos anyway especially Kato/Hobbytrain which are noticeably "jerky" under feedback.  Generally I only switch in the feedback for old open frame motored locos these days if they need it for slow running smoothness.

I do usually replace plugin decoders with blanking plates if I buy a 2nd-hand DCC fitted loco.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on July 28, 2019, 02:09:18 PM
“Though surely it would be flying off the rails at that well below sort of voltage?!   :D”

Actually no. It doesn’t go that fast at 12v, being a shunter. At full throttle on a Bachmann/Farish controller it just reaches express train speeds.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on July 28, 2019, 04:18:36 PM
So one of my DC controllers is a home-built high frequency PWM jobbie - an Arduino nano using hardware PWM set to 31kHz driving a DRV8871 motor driver (chopper H-bridge) with current limiter set to 2A (which in theory could mean that there is an even higher frequency from the DRV8871 layered on top if we ever see the full 2A current draw). Peak voltage is very well regulated at just under 12V and I think (can't remember the code precisely) that the maximum duty cycle never quite reaches 100%.

Is this likely to confuse the electronics on board?

I don't know about the ;) electronics, but that lot confused me!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ngaugepaul on July 28, 2019, 05:33:39 PM
and me !
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Gnep on July 28, 2019, 06:40:28 PM

Having some knowledge of the decoder being used, I would say your controller won’t blow it up. What I couldn’t say with any certainty is whether or not your signal will confuse the decoder. It has two basic modes of operation, DC and DCC. When there is enough volts on the track (around 4.5) the decoder’s processor wakes up. It then decides the mode. How it decides the mode exactly I do not know. Your chopped DC may, or may not, be enough to convince it that there is a DCC signal on the track. If it thinks it is DCC then clearly there would not be a valid packet, so it won’t move.

Thanks - really useful reply. I have other "normal" DC controllers (Gaugemaster D and Kato) so was just wondering really. By the sounds of it I won't be risking too much by giving it a try and seeing what happens. When the locos land I'll do so and report back just in case anyone else was wondering (admittedly unlikely!)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: GlenP on August 15, 2019, 01:13:50 PM
Thanks - really useful reply. I have other "normal" DC controllers (Gaugemaster D and Kato) so was just wondering really. By the sounds of it I won't be risking too much by giving it a try and seeing what happens. When the locos land I'll do so and report back just in case anyone else was wondering (admittedly unlikely!)

I'm wondering exactly the same (so not that unlikely)!

The layout I'm currently building uses an off-the-shelf PWM motor controller hooked up to a Raspberry Pi*. I'd have gone the DCC route but one of the locos is an N-Brass kit Peckett on an N Drive Productions chassis. I decided that trying to fit DCC was impractical but a PWM controller is the next best thing.

*The aim is full automation but I'm a self-confessed geek.

Glen

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 15, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
Thanks - really useful reply. I have other "normal" DC controllers (Gaugemaster D and Kato) so was just wondering really. By the sounds of it I won't be risking too much by giving it a try and seeing what happens. When the locos land I'll do so and report back just in case anyone else was wondering (admittedly unlikely!)

I'm wondering exactly the same (so not that unlikely)!

The layout I'm currently building uses an off-the-shelf PWM motor controller hooked up to a Raspberry Pi*. I'd have gone the DCC route but one of the locos is an N-Brass kit Peckett on an N Drive Productions chassis. I decided that trying to fit DCC was impractical but a PWM controller is the next best thing.

*The aim is full automation but I'm a self-confessed geek.

Glen

It will depend of the frequency of the PWM wave.  Either on power up the chip will decide its DCC and try to decode it or it will reject it and switch to DC. mode.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on August 15, 2019, 01:49:56 PM
One possible workaround with a PWM based controller is to fit a smooting capacitor on its output. If this is before the reversing switch it can be a suitable electrolytic. If after the reversing switch you need to ensure it is not polarised. This will produce a DC level in proportion to the mark space ratio of your PWM signal. If it is a fancy controller that looks at the motor's back EMF in the pulse gaps for some sort of feedback control, I would not expect the feedback to work properly.

Just to reiterate a previous point, the Hunslet will work on DCC or DC, and it means exactly that. Everything that is not DCC (eg PWM) should not necessarily be assumed to be DC. If you have any doubts at all about your Hunslet's performance, stick it on an isolated oval of track and place the terminals of a PP3 battery across the rails.

regards

Julian Thornhill
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ohlavache on August 26, 2019, 07:39:36 AM
One question that may have been asked before.
Will there be a possibility to order some more once they are released? (I'd like to get a second one in another livery.)
Thanks.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: GlenP on August 26, 2019, 08:14:54 AM
I believe that once the pre-orders have been fulfilled they will go on general sale to the members. I guess how many of each livery will be available depends on orders received though.

My “locos I don’t really need” budget is way overspent at the moment as I’ve also pre-ordered the Hattons Beyer Garratt (which I’ve got no layout for but I just love them) so I’ll stick with the one Hunslet.

Glen
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on August 26, 2019, 08:29:55 AM
One question that may have been asked before.
Will there be a possibility to order some more once they are released? (I'd like to get a second one in another livery.)
Thanks.

Yes there will, once the pre-orders are fulfilled, the stock will then go on general sale, and lack of stock should not be an issue.

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Pedanticmongrel on August 28, 2019, 10:22:16 AM
Any recent updates on when these are due? I remember the NGS magazine saying they were close to shipping to the UK quite a while back, since then I haven't seen any updates.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on August 28, 2019, 10:29:55 AM

Hello all,

Apologies, not had a chance to reply until now.  In answer to some of the questions and points raised...

2). DELIVERY.  The bodyshells are ready.  Packaging etc is all done.  We are waiting for the PCBs, being manufactured in Austria, to be sent to China for final assembly to be completed.  I do not know how long this will take, but I have been told there is no reason the models will not be here by Q4 2019.  As ever please understand that may change.

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP/)

As far as I'm aware the above from July still stands; I've not heard anything to the contrary. Q4 technically is Oct 1st to December 31st, so anytime within that window would be a decent ballpark timescale, assuming no further delays.

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on August 28, 2019, 09:42:08 PM

Hi all,

Getting the PCBs completed has taken longer than expected. 

Our supplier had to reject the first 2000 (produced by a subcontractor) and bring production in house. 

His PCB assembly machines are slower, but of course he can monitor the product quality.

The first satisfactory batch is about to be shipped, with the remainder due soon after. 

I am optimistic that if the factory can get to production in the next couple of weeks the models (or at least most of them) will still make Q4.  But it is impossible to give a cast iron guarantee.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on August 28, 2019, 09:48:09 PM
Thank you for the update, really looking forward to this model
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Capri_sam on August 28, 2019, 09:55:57 PM

Hi all,

Getting the PCBs completed has taken longer than expected. 

Our supplier had to reject the first 2000 (produced by a subcontractor) and bring production in house. 

His PCB assembly machines are slower, but of course he can monitor the product quality.

The first satisfactory batch is about to be shipped, with the remainder due soon after. 

I am optimistic that if the factory can get to production in the next couple of weeks the models (or at least most of them) will still make Q4.  But it is impossible to give a cast iron guarantee.

Cheers

Ben A.

Ouch! Can only imagine the frustration that's caused you all round. Glad it's sorted though. Are these common problems in RM manufacturing? Do whole batches of components often get rejected?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on August 28, 2019, 10:15:32 PM
Unfortunately that happens a lot in china if a supplier uses cheap
Components instead of specified ones.  We tested these a lot to ensure they were up to our standards and ct has taken this on board with their own QC
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: sg on August 28, 2019, 10:18:08 PM
Of all the models I am waiting for this one is the most exciting, the innovations in it and the achievement of delivering such a model by volunteers really stands out. And the fact that it will not be produced by the manufacture later (as has happened with Bachman based models) adds to the feeling of exclusivity. Thanks to all involved.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on August 28, 2019, 10:53:24 PM
Wot he said.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Capri_sam on August 29, 2019, 06:36:59 AM
Unfortunately that happens a lot in china if a supplier uses cheap
Components instead of specified ones.  We tested these a lot to ensure they were up to our standards and ct has taken this on board with their own QC

I have heard that dealing with third party manufacturers in China is a nightmare and that caveat emptor is the standard in business there, and not just for western customers. I'll stick to being a tourist I think! Hopefully the subcontractor will have learned a lesson after getting spotted and losing the contract (and presumably their fees). I'm glad CT are learning from it too. A good if frustrating result all round!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on August 29, 2019, 10:43:54 AM
As I sit by the poolside in Borneo sipping chilled Shiraz I look forward to TINGS and seeing this and Revolution’s products.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Fardap on August 29, 2019, 10:50:33 AM

Hello all,

Apologies, not had a chance to reply until now.  In answer to some of the questions and points raised...

2). DELIVERY.  The bodyshells are ready.  Packaging etc is all done.  We are waiting for the PCBs, being manufactured in Austria, to be sent to China for final assembly to be completed.  I do not know how long this will take, but I have been told there is no reason the models will not be here by Q4 2019.  As ever please understand that may change.

Cheers

Ben A.
(NGS VP/)

Seems to me the PCB were Austrian manufacture not Chinese as a lot are quoting and criticising (the Chinese), unless the bare boards are Austrian and component additions were Chinese, as that is not clear? Not really sure where the 2000 rejections were, Austria manufacture, China assembly or Loco Assembly China, but good to see that it is being fixed.

Steve
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on August 29, 2019, 11:09:01 AM
Really glad the QA is being tough. 

CT products are very cleverly designed but virtually impossible to get reliable parts. 

My impression is they have always had manufacturing/failure problems. A sad case of over promise.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on October 31, 2019, 08:22:01 AM

Hi all,

Getting the PCBs completed has taken longer than expected. 

Our supplier had to reject the first 2000 (produced by a subcontractor) and bring production in house. 

His PCB assembly machines are slower, but of course he can monitor the product quality.

The first satisfactory batch is about to be shipped, with the remainder due soon after. 

I am optimistic that if the factory can get to production in the next couple of weeks the models (or at least most of them) will still make Q4.  But it is impossible to give a cast iron guarantee.

Cheers

Ben A.


Further to Ben's post of August this year, there is an update regarding the Hunslet Shunters on the NGS Website, link here:

http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?p=2455 (http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?p=2455)

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: RailGooner on October 31, 2019, 08:42:56 AM
Thanks for highlighting that Scott. I read only good news there.
 :beers:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on October 31, 2019, 07:45:31 PM
OK, so I won't get the model for Christmas but good to know that it is on the way! Really looking forward to this one, especially now that it has a super capacitor  :D & don't forget the flashing light (i just had to have one)........ & at the end of the day a years wait is still less than the "main stream" manufacturers. So a big well done to the club, whats next for RTR???

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: sg on October 31, 2019, 10:29:13 PM
Impressed with the effort to get the product right rather than rush to market. After Christmas is also better for the wallet! This engine is a real triumph for the hard working n gauge society volunteers.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Ben A on November 01, 2019, 01:10:28 AM

Hello all,

Thanks for the kind words; this project has at times felt like one step back for every two forward, but it does seem that we are getting there.

Nonetheless, while I am confident I won't be really able to relax until the models are actually here!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Capri_sam on November 01, 2019, 06:54:08 AM
We've got your back, Ben! This loco is a huge leap forward for the hobby in terms of miniaturisation and on-board technology, and opens up an entire world of modelling possibilities in N. When charting new territory it's worth taking your time to do it right; and an already superb new loco is only getting better with these changes. Worth waiting for I reckon!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on November 01, 2019, 08:46:05 AM
In the interests of openness about the project, since the last update was published on the website further information has been received that suggests the models are not likely to be in the UK before mid-december.

In view of this, and in view of Society staffing issues and associated postal issues that both crop up over the festive period,  outstanding balances won't be requested until after the New Year. Ditto, obviously, distribution of pre-orders.*

Best

Scott

*Assuming the models do indeed arrive in December.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on November 01, 2019, 09:10:11 AM
This is going to be such an awesome model, I don't care if it's not available until next year!

Kudos to ALL involved.  :thumbsup: :beers:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on November 01, 2019, 10:53:25 AM
I think it was a bold but absolutely correct decision to build in an integral DCC PCB with stay alive into this loco at the design stage, and although delays can be disappointing from a consumer perspective getting something so new "right" is absolutely vital. Having seen how good the loco looks, it is great to know that when it does arrive it will perform every bit as well.

The other thing to consider is that this loco is (as far as I am aware) a trail-blazer for the miniaturised DCC and stay alive technology and having ironed out the snags here the CT Electronik circuit board opens up a whole new range of possibilities for reliable running in small DCC capable locos be they NGS produced or otherwise.

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: bluedepot on November 01, 2019, 02:14:51 PM
i hope farish are going to use similar technology in their 03, 04, 08, 14 etc. as stay alives in n gauge could be a game changer in encouraging shunting layouts i think

and ngs could maybe look into making a small ndustrial steam loco next!


tim
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dalek on November 01, 2019, 02:48:49 PM
i hope farish are going to use similar technology in their 03, 04, 08, 14 etc. as stay alives in n gauge could be a game changer in encouraging shunting layouts i think

and ngs could maybe look into making a small ndustrial steam loco next!


tim

All we need next is ddc uncoupling built into the loco  :thumbsup:  :o

Craig
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on November 01, 2019, 02:57:30 PM
i hope farish are going to use similar technology in their 03, 04, 08, 14 etc. as stay alives in n gauge could be a game changer in encouraging shunting layouts i think

and ngs could maybe look into making a small ndustrial steam loco next!


tim

Personally I think that is a great idea, but I think the NGS viewed the Hunslet as a one-off as far as RTR is concerned? If not, I would look no further that the J94/18 inch Austerity as a great companion for it.

Roy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: maridunian on November 01, 2019, 03:51:19 PM
... stay alives in n gauge could be a game changer in encouraging shunting layouts i think

and ngs could maybe look into making a small ndustrial steam loco next!


tim

Hear, hear!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on November 01, 2019, 04:08:56 PM
Here are some "hot" photos of the shunter during testing, taken with an infra red camera:


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1299-011119155905.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83435)
This is the decoder with the track voltage set to 24v



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1299-011119160004.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83436)
At 12v the decoder runs considerably cooler. note the 40.2 degrees is the hottest part of the hottest chip.



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1299-011119160142.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83437)
This is the decoder with a normal camera. The test clips are attached to the track feed inputs. The output connected to the motor is not shown in this picture. The stay alive capacitor is on the reverse.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1299-011119160403.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83438)
This is the motor being fed with 24v. The chassis is held fixed with the wheels slipping, to load the motor.



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1299-011119160544.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83439)
Same again at 12v



(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/83/1299-011119160630.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=83440)
This the test chassis.

The decoder and motor have been run up to 36v input and survived the experience, but things started to get a bit warm and a sustained test didn't seem wise.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on November 01, 2019, 09:14:51 PM
Great pics, thanks for sharing nice to see some of the testing which looks to have been extensive. Stay alive was important to me as I only use the point blades for conductivity as I struggle enough with soldering & wiring. So, if the one I have on order works as advertised I'll be after another.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: longbow on November 02, 2019, 01:52:24 AM
A small stay-alive will only compensate for a momentary loss of power, so it likely won't offset a faulty point blade contact. 
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on November 02, 2019, 02:30:27 AM
really looking forward to these arriving.  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on November 02, 2019, 06:32:14 AM
A small stay-alive will only compensate for a momentary loss of power, so it likely won't offset a faulty point blade contact.
I’d second that. The capacitor was 1000uF, though I understand that it has got slightly bigger in the production decoder. If you do the calculations it gives enough reserve for a fraction of a second, not seconds. It gets you over bits of dirt etc. My test chassis could happily run over two consecutive points, one being a three way. It’s probably better to think of the stay alive making the short wheel base loco behave more like a long wheel base one. The capacitor is not a substitute for poor track work.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on November 02, 2019, 08:21:34 AM
Understood, I can get all my 0-6-0 locks to run over the point work in the yard ok, I always clean the track before a running session but laying track is not my strong point!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NinOz on November 02, 2019, 10:39:19 AM
24V and 36V input for an N scale loco?  :o
Can only sit in disbelief. ???
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on November 02, 2019, 10:42:49 AM
24V and 36V input for an N scale loco?  :o
Can only sit in disbelief. ???

Now that's testing!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: ntpntpntp on November 02, 2019, 11:07:32 AM
24V and 36V input for an N scale loco?  :o
Can only sit in disbelief. ???

That's pretty much testing to the max if not actually to destruction.   Generally I believe DCC decoders are expected to withstand around 35V at the inputs even though the normal track voltage for smaller scales is  more like 15V.   

G scale DCC is often around 24V track voltage, and whilst you wouldn't expect a small scale decoder to be able to power a G scale loco, it could possibly still be used for an animation or for other uses which don't require much current.   I've used "High Power" HO scale decoders (capable of 2 amps continuous) in a couple of my smallest G Scale locos  as they do the job for less money than a decoder intended for large scales.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: jthjth on November 02, 2019, 12:24:36 PM
24V and 36V input for an N scale loco?  :o
Can only sit in disbelief. ???
You would be surprised. The Bachmann/Farish analogue trainset controller gives around 22v at full throttle when lightly loaded. So we have to ensure that the shunter won’t go bang if someone decides to use that. The NMRA specifications allow the DCC track voltage to go up to 24v, although they recommend lower for N. But someone somewhere is bound to try it, so we have to make sure we can meet the specification. With a 24v square wave being applied to wiring and track (ie inductors) it is possible to get overshoots, or ringing, on the edges, so there is the possibility of going above 24v, even if only for a short time. Hence the 36v test to ensure that spikes won’t kill the semiconductors. With this being the first NGS RTR loco, and having an integrated decoder, it would be “a bad thing” if the decoders easily blow up. That’s not to say that people won’t discover unusual ways of mistreating the electronics, but at least we’ve tried our best to cover reasonable use cases. But please, heed Ben’s warnings and use a decent controller that has a maximum output of between 12 and 15v. Beyond 15v things get hotter and therefore stressed. This is bound to reduce component lifetime.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob Tidbury on November 02, 2019, 02:58:38 PM
That’s one reason I changed to a Morley controller ,as it is pretty good  for old N gauge and safe for the newer coreless  motors  in the modern locos ,though I do miss my old E C M  Compspeed controllers ,which compensated for some voltage drops due to very old trackwork .
Bob Tidbury
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on November 04, 2019, 12:26:57 PM
As Julian says you'd be surprised at some of the peaks that some (even well known) controllers put out (both in terms of max voltage and momentary spikes).
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Philip. on December 30, 2019, 04:11:10 PM
http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?p=2455 (http://newweb.ngaugesociety.com/?p=2455)

Not long now....hopefully  ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS - delivery update
Post by: Railwaygun on December 31, 2019, 12:58:44 PM
from NGS.IO

   
Re: Latest on Hunslet DH Locomotives #ngsrtr #ShopNews
From: Scott (NGS Publicity Officer)
Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2019 10:06:32 GMT
The following is ported from the NGS Website:


"The following Hunslet Production Update from the Treasurer will appear in the newsletter accompanying journal 1/20:

 
In writing this just prior to Christmas, I am finally pleased to say that we reached a major milestone on December 9th with confirmation that the entire run of the all important PCB’s was complete and ready to be shipped. This now paves the way to push on with final assembly, packing and distribution once the PCB’s have reached the factory in Hong Kong. This delivery of the PCB’s to Hong Kong is anticipated to be before Christmas and will then need to have a final set of tests to be done by the Factory to ensure the “100% right” requirements are met before we give the green light to finally start the assembly process.

 
Given the prolonged timing of the PCB production, it is now unlikely that the Factory will complete all that they need to do prior to the Chinese New Year at the end of January/early February, which is a 15 day holiday. We do hope that production completion and shipment will happen soon after this but I am not going to give dates here given past experience, but as soon as we have the shipping date you will all know through the various channels we use for updating our Members including the Journal, Facebook, Website and the ngs.io group.
 
Whilst there have been production delays this has allowed the committee to organise an efficient distribution process that will ensure all pre-orders are shipped as soon as possible after balances are paid and there are a number of people involved in the process to ensure you get your models quickly. Indeed, I am one of those people myself and am busy sorting my own “railway room” out over Christmas and New Year so that I am good to go to ship once the numerous boxes of Hunslets arrive with me. Similar activities are also going on with a number of other volunteers too so we will all do everything we can to ship quickly.

 
Finally it was good to meet a number of you at the Warley Show at the NEC last month to talk about the Hunslets and also confirm the view that there will be a strong demand for this model after the pre-orders are complete, so when the general membership selling starts, please get your orders in quickly!."

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on March 19, 2020, 05:45:17 PM
Some further (good) news regarding the NGS Hunslet DH Shunter:

"The production assembly run has started on the Hunslets and we are now expecting the shipment to be made in May of this year.

Hopefully when the shipment arrives we will be able to execute our Distribution processes effectively once our Members have paid the balances and as long as the parcel services we will rely on are functioning correctly."

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Capri_sam on March 19, 2020, 06:23:50 PM
Some further (good) news regarding the NGS Hunslet DH Shunter:

"The production assembly run has started on the Hunslets and we are now expecting the shipment to be made in May of this year.

Hopefully when the shipment arrives we will be able to execute our Distribution processes effectively once our Members have paid the balances and as long as the parcel services we will rely on are functioning correctly."

Best

Scott

Great news! Both for us and the workers in China who've had a heck of a time of it the last couple of months. I hope they're as pleased to be back to normality as we'll hopefully be in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: honestjudge on March 19, 2020, 07:32:12 PM
Good news indeed amongst all the current gloom :laugh:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Dickydcc on March 20, 2020, 08:13:36 AM
Indeed & hopefully this means China has got through the worst of it?
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on March 20, 2020, 08:22:52 AM
I think that using the production of N gauge locomotives as an indicator may be stretching things a bit!  ;)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: R Marshall on March 20, 2020, 03:48:18 PM
Has anyone thought about the issue of whether people will be happy to receive boxes from China any time soon?

And what about the NGS volunteers handling and despatching them?

Not making mischief - serious questions.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bob G on March 20, 2020, 03:54:10 PM
Viruses dont survive long outside a host. Unless they mutate into aliens en route to the UK in the shipping container.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 20, 2020, 03:54:36 PM
Has anyone thought about the issue of whether people will be happy to receive boxes from China any time soon?

And what about the NGS volunteers handling and despatching them?

Not making mischief - serious questions.

Boxes from China will have been packed more than 72 hours before unpacking after delivery so the contents should not be a problem. 

However the outside of cartons may have been coughed on by the local truck driver who delivers it to the NGS.

Best handled carefully.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: NGS-PO on March 20, 2020, 04:00:19 PM
Has anyone thought about the issue of whether people will be happy to receive boxes from China any time soon?

And what about the NGS volunteers handling and despatching them?

Not making mischief - serious questions.

This article here, suggests that the virus can stay active on a hard surface for up to 9 days, depending on the surface and the temperature. The hotter the surface, the higher the decay rate. Other articles tend to concur.

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronaviruses-how-long-can-they-survive-on-surfaces#How-long-do-coronaviruses-persist? (https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/coronaviruses-how-long-can-they-survive-on-surfaces#How-long-do-coronaviruses-persist?)

The boxes will have been at sea for a number of weeks, so I'd suggest the risk is almost zero as far as any packaged contamination is concerned.  That said, as David intimates, how they're handles post shipment makes a difference, and that applies to just about everything you touch in any case.

Best

Scott
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on March 20, 2020, 04:25:31 PM
Assuming they come by sea and not airfreight, I would prefer to wait longer for them to come by sea. This would quantine them on route for plenty long enough, I can then chose to not open the parcel for a week when it arrives with me to allow for any contamination here assuming if not had it by then.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: red_death on March 20, 2020, 09:59:03 PM
Even airfreight there would be no risk according to the Govt and Royal Mail. The virus has very limited lifespan even on hard surfaces eg https://www.royalmail.com/coronavirus (https://www.royalmail.com/coronavirus)

We should be careful that we’re not creating false concern.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N_GaugeModeller on March 21, 2020, 07:59:35 AM
All the Experts say you will be safe

Just remember all the "Experts" once said Smoking and Asbestos were safe as well?

Just saying ;)

Hat coat door
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on March 21, 2020, 08:08:09 AM
All the Experts say you will be safe

Just remember all the "Experts" once said Smoking and Asbestos were safe as well?

Just saying ;)

Hat coat door

That's really unhelpful in times like these.

Misinformation breeds fear, it's that sort of comment that triggers panic buying and the like.

Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Only Me on March 21, 2020, 09:14:37 AM
All the Experts say you will be safe

Just remember all the "Experts" once said Smoking and Asbestos were safe as well?

Just saying ;)

Hat coat door

That's really unhelpful in times like these.

Misinformation breads fear, it's that sort of comment that triggers panic buying and the like.



Its also the sort of comment that gets your account monitored and restricted...
Posts like that are unhelpful and cause concern among certain people
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: N_GaugeModeller on March 21, 2020, 09:33:43 AM
Ok stick your heads in the sand and refuse to learn from History

You saying it can't happen does not make it so

Bye
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: exmouthcraig on March 21, 2020, 09:56:49 AM
@N_GaugeModeller (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7874) you must be one if the most negative people I've EVER come into contact with, you spend your whole time either Dapol bashing or questioning any form of authority.

WE have no clue what this virus is going to do to ANYONE,

MUCH CLEVERER people then you or I are telling us the information WE need and what the causes of concern are. Packaging of ANY kind have never been mentioned as a threat and as provided links suggest there is no need to panic.

Spouting YOUR BELIEF is fine if YOU had any evidence to support it. If YOUR so bothered about anything coming through the post do what YOU need to do to PROTECT YOURSELF.

As I'm no scientist, medical professional or member of parliament I have no fears over what we are told.

This topic is about the HUGELY SUCCESSFUL NGS shunter and you have decided to turn into a pointless scaremongering shout your mouth off think later topic about something TOTALLY UNASSOCIATED with it.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Snowwolflair on March 21, 2020, 11:01:01 AM
I am no medic or virologist but i was lucky enough ten years ago to sit in on the post mortem of SARS when the Select Committees discussed how we missed the bullet that time. 

All I can say is that from what I learned then the government and others are doing the right thing now and giving the correct advice. 

However, they are battling the inherent ignorance of humanity and the next edition of the Darwin Awards will probably have several tens of millions of winners.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Newportnobby on March 21, 2020, 11:11:40 AM
Global Moderator Comment It's all too easy to get Covid-19 into any thread but can I suggest this comes back on topic and comments about the virus are put in all the threads running about it. The sheer fact we have a thread about this loco should be good news to all - something scarce these days. Thank you.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: BramptonBranch on March 21, 2020, 03:44:13 PM
Well when mine arrives the box is going to be opened in a hurry, the loco is going on the layout and I'm going to enjoy it. Mind I do worry that I may want another one or two......

Andy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: EtchedPixels on March 22, 2020, 09:57:15 PM
You might want to leave the box in the porch for a few days but I'd worry about the box that has been handled recently not the contents.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on March 22, 2020, 10:54:17 PM
rubber gloves and surface spray wiping down the outside of the box before opening will be my rule of thumb going forward. Given the contents will have been in there for at least 14 days i understand they should be ok.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on March 22, 2020, 10:57:20 PM
Ah, yes, good...

...thinking outside the box, that's what we need.

Just kiddin', all our post gets a mandatory four day quarantine.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: honestjudge on March 23, 2020, 08:06:28 AM
I think some of the posts on here should be quarantined! 8)
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on March 27, 2020, 04:05:23 AM
Ok, I have a virus-free question, but probably a dumb one.

I'm pretty sure I ordered one and put a deposit on it, but can't remember for certain if I did! I've just spent an hour scouring the site, my emails, etc. to no avail.

Can someone please tell me how I check if I have an order or not?  :dunce: :dunce:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Graham on March 27, 2020, 05:48:01 AM
Ok, I have a virus-free question, but probably a dumb one.

I'm pretty sure I ordered one and put a deposit on it, but can't remember for certain if I did! I've just spent an hour scouring the site, my emails, etc. to no avail.

Can someone please tell me how I check if I have an order or not?  :dunce: :dunce:
Hi George,

I had a confirmation order from the "join@ngaugesociety.com" email address, it was in April 2017 which i believe was around when they were released.

Only paid the deposit which i am now regretting given the current exchange rates.

If you check your received email from around that time you should find the confirmation email.

cheers
Graham
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on March 27, 2020, 06:47:39 AM
Thanks, Graham, just spent a while searching old emails, but drawing a blank. Maybe I didn't put an order in, but I thought I did!  :NGF: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: honestjudge on March 27, 2020, 07:37:55 AM
I couldn't remember which liveries I had ordered a while ago so I emailed the shop manager.  He had all the details.
So I would just write to them and ask for confirmation.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Cooper on March 27, 2020, 07:41:36 AM
I put in an order for several at the York show and got a receipt. Last time I ran across it and put it ‘somewhere safe’ it was fading fast! I don’t recall an email when ordering from the mobile shop. If all I have is a blank or heavily faded till roll print out your suggestion to email the. Shop manager puts my mind at rest. Thank you!
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: dannyboy on March 27, 2020, 08:51:37 AM
I found myself in the same position as @honestjudge (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2447)  two years ago. I sent an email to the shop explaining how the computer had 'lost' my confirmation and received a nice reply confirming what I had ordered.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Bealman on March 27, 2020, 09:07:26 AM
I have had a pm from Scott, the NGS Product Officer, saying he is looking into it.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: emjaybee on March 27, 2020, 09:07:59 AM
I'm now worrying that I should have bought more than three.

 :hmmm:

I have no idea which ones I ordered, I suppose it'll be a nice surprise.

 :D

I do know that they're all paid for except for postage though.
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: honestjudge on March 27, 2020, 11:12:59 AM
@Cooper (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=852)

It was the faded till roll for me as well that prompted my initial inquiry.  :doh:
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Izzy on March 27, 2020, 12:45:21 PM

 Yes, it’s this aspect that has prompted me to always scan receipts for goods with a long/extended guarantee where you are requested to prove purchase with them if they need repair/replacement during that period. Sometimes this is for 2/3years yet the receipt can be unreadable in 6 months.

Izzy
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: hedgemebaby on April 28, 2020, 03:33:08 PM
anyone know when they are going to ask for the rest of the mioney for the loco? i only part paid before they stopped adding extra deposits to the original deposit
would prefer to pay now and get it done so i know its all done
thanks
Title: Re: Hunslet Industrial Shunter from the NGS
Post by: Roy L S on April 28, 2020, 03:53:24 PM
I was actually wondering the other day what the current state of play is with these little locos, and how production is progressing. I have three on order and was similarly pondering the question of when I might be asked for the balances...

Roy
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