N Gauge Forum

General Category => RevolutioN Trains => Crowdfunding => Tiphook PFA/KFA => Topic started by: woodbury22uk on March 26, 2016, 11:10:44 AM

Title: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 26, 2016, 11:10:44 AM
Today's newly announced container wagons:-

https://www.revolutiontrains.com/tiphook-pfakfa-container-flat-next-n-gauge-wagon-from-revolution/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/tiphook-pfakfa-container-flat-next-n-gauge-wagon-from-revolution/)

Good to see another single container wagon with a wide timespan and geographic spread.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 26, 2016, 12:00:37 PM
I believe that's exactly what I guessed on the other thread. Was also the first to guess the TEA too athankyouverymuch!

Mike, Ben, if you want me on board as a consultant, just shout :D

I'll take several KFAs too.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 26, 2016, 12:56:21 PM

Hello all,

The KFA was selected as it seems an obvious choice.  They've been used - and still are used - on a wide variety of traffic including Gypusm, bin liners, MOD trains, Network Rail RHTT services and of course Freightliner intermodal services.

Introduced in 1987 there were two batches built by Rautaruukki, which are the ones we are doing, with two different bogie types and some other detail differences which we will be replicating.,

Hornby do a nice model of one of the variants in OO making it unlikely that anyone else would be interested in N, so we thought it fitted our "niche"ethos.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/5/thumb_37089.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37089)

The CAD is well underway, and the sooner people sign up the sooner we can get on with it, and as an additional incentive there's a discounted EarlyBird rate available until the end of June.

See our website for more pics and details.

And congratulations to Njee for guessing - two out of two now!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 26, 2016, 01:02:10 PM
A great choice Ben, we're definitely a bit short of RTR intermodal wagons, even more so now Dapol's FEAs are out of production. I look forward to bolstering my rake with at least 3!

CADs look great too.

Cheers
Nick
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Newportnobby on March 26, 2016, 01:25:17 PM
Oh dear - another modern image project :(
I'm disappointed and bemused that, in a recent poll I conducted, by far the majority of folks who voted were transition era modellers yet those modellers don't seem to vote for any of the transition era suggestions. For sure, maybe those suggestions weren't what they wanted, and I recognise you can't please everyone all of the time but it looks as if I will have to rely on D.J. Models to come up with anything 'different', and so far we haven't seen any models in N gauge to test.
Having said all that, don't ask me what I would like because I just don't know :-[
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: gc4946 on March 26, 2016, 01:51:16 PM
Just placed an order for a pack of three KFAs (Tiphook with black bogies) because they offer more operational flexibility than Dapol's or Farish's paired-up intermodals.
I'm happy to buy them without containers in order to bring the cost down to reasonable limits.

BTW I'll try to attend the York show on Sunday.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: G_N_E_R on March 26, 2016, 01:53:32 PM
YES PLEASE :D
How many can I afford:P
Kindest Regards
Phil
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on March 26, 2016, 02:34:20 PM
Did these run into West Cornwall in the late 80's early 90's, or could I use rule 1 for a delivery of MOD containers for Culdrose? I was thinking of getting 1 of the earliest livery for a mixed freight.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RichardBattersby on March 26, 2016, 03:31:52 PM
Oh dear - another modern image project :(
I'm disappointed and bemused that, in a recent poll I conducted, by far the majority of folks who voted were transition era modellers yet those modellers don't seem to vote for any of the transition era suggestions. For sure, maybe those suggestions weren't what they wanted, and I recognise you can't please everyone all of the time but it looks as if I will have to rely on D.J. Models to come up with anything 'different', and so far we haven't seen any models in N gauge to test.
Having said all that, don't ask me what I would like because I just don't know :-[

Also disappointed here, I was really hoping for steam era or early diesel be it loco or rolling stock. However, I hope it is a successful venture and I shall have everything crossed for TINGS.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: NeMo on March 26, 2016, 03:51:14 PM
Oh dear - another modern image project :(
I'm disappointed and bemused that, in a recent poll I conducted, by far the majority of folks who voted were transition era modellers yet those modellers don't seem to vote for any of the transition era suggestions.
I feel the same way, that again Revolution are making something for big, post-privatisation layouts rather than either steam to BR blue settings or small branchline layouts.

Yet at the same time I think I understand where they're coming from. All those transition era modellers are "of a certain age" and perhaps less likely to accept kickstarters as the way to go for these types of projects. And secondly, I'm struggling to think of anything obvious from the 1930s to 1980s that isn't modelled yet. Certainly nothing as obvious as, say, the Pendolino.

Still, I'd have loved to have seen something smaller and more suitable for end-to-end layouts.

....it looks as if I will have to rely on D.J. Models to come up with anything 'different'...

And luckily DJM seems to be promising good models at affordable prices. The J94 and the Class 17 'Clayton' are two locos that could pretty much have layouts build around them, and would work as well on a small shunting plank as a giant oval.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RichardBattersby on March 26, 2016, 04:01:17 PM
Yet at the same time I think I understand where they're coming from. All those transition era modellers are "of a certain age" and perhaps less likely to accept kickstarters as the way to go for these types of projects.

I'm primarily into steam and I'm barely out of my twenties so that doesn't apply to all cases but I suppose these generalisations need to be made to make sure ventures are profitable.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on March 26, 2016, 04:17:54 PM
Oh be still my beating wallet!

Another winner for me but I do appreciate its not to everyone's taste.

Ben and Mike seem to have found a niche in producing contemporary models, that will sell well. The failure of the 21/29 and an earlier kickstarter for a GWR railcar would seem to indicate that for whatever reason contemporary models are a better bet for this type of crowdfunding.

I'll  be ordering a rake once International ordering is fixed.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: marco neri on March 26, 2016, 04:53:40 PM
 :hellosign:
Just place my  order for two sets Y25 bogies


Cheers

Marco
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on March 26, 2016, 04:56:14 PM
Hell Yeah Ill be having some of these.

Yo need to adjust your map showing scope of operations, These regularly made it up the WHL to Ft William on Aluminium slab workings with Freightliner type B/C ? flat rack containers.


Rgds
Mark

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Bob G on March 26, 2016, 05:17:28 PM
I'm with the middle aged cronies who wouldn't even contemplate anything post 1987 unless its rule 1. (Yeoman 59s, 159s in NSE and Eurostar excepted)
I'm happy to crowdfund - I have given my money to Dave Jones via Kernow for a Class 71 and 74 both in OO.
I will turn my pockets inside out for the Miller project HST-P, and please do the Buffets Joel.

I didn't fancy the Revolution 21/29 as I model the Southern, with western influences, and everything else Ben and Mike have gone for are way too modern for me.
Similarly I'm not biting Dave Jones' hand off for Claytons, or Baby Deltics either, but yes I have done so for his OO third rail adventures.

But boy would I like a Thumper, or some B class tanks for the Fawley run, or a 117 DMU, or any southern 4-6-0, or....even a TEA tanker from the early builds which would be better than the Farish one, or......

Here's hoping someone will come up with the goods.

Bob
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Newportnobby on March 26, 2016, 05:30:03 PM
All those transition era modellers are "of a certain age" and perhaps less likely to accept kickstarters as the way to go for these types of projects.

A very brave statement, Nemo :laugh:
Being a transition modeller and thus of a certain age, I bucked my 'No Rule 1' thinking and did order a Pendolino as I wanted to see RevolutioN succeed in their aims and become established in the market. That perspective has not changed for me and I still wish them all success in the world.
I guess we transition era folks are adequately supplied, although how anyone can ignore one of the largest classes and most widespread UK wise i.e. the Stanier 8F which is crying out for a retool is beyond me. Unless one can be found on Fleabay or a shop in the back of beyond, they are just not available.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on March 26, 2016, 05:57:37 PM
Wow - quite a mixed reaction! Thanks to those who are pleased but for everyone who is disappointed please bear in mind this is only our second item of stock!

The KFA is from 1987 (nearly 30 years old!) so has much more spread than just post-privatisation.

If anyone has bright ideas of transition era rolling stock then we are happy to hear them. 

Cheers

Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on March 26, 2016, 06:03:16 PM
Hi Guys,

Have you considered getting some Bin liner containers done? RTR or kits would work for me.

Arran Aird already does the MOD containers, perhaps he would be interested?

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PLD on March 26, 2016, 06:08:06 PM
Oh dear - another modern image project :(
I'm disappointed and bemused that, in a recent poll I conducted, by far the majority of folks who voted were transition era modellers yet those modellers don't seem to vote for any of the transition era suggestions. For sure, maybe those suggestions weren't what they wanted, and I recognise you can't please everyone all of the time but it looks as if I will have to rely on D.J. Models to come up with anything 'different', and so far we haven't seen any models in N gauge to test.
Having said all that, don't ask me what I would like because I just don't know :-[
These wagons are not something I'll be buying either - again too modern for any era I model. But I'd certainly not describe myself as 'disappointed' though... Quite the opposite. I'm delighted that the response to the two products so far has given Revolution/Rapido confidence to start on another so quickly. Even though it may not be everyone's individual niche, it shows a future for the hobby and the scale despite what some doom merchants may say.

I suspect in the first choices there is an element of what Ben & Mike know and model themselves as well as the era that had the most response in the recent proposals. I'll say be patient and let these models prove the concept then they may get more adventurous and move outside that comfort zone...

As for waiting for DJM, at least we have tangible N gauge product from Revolution and in a much shorter timescale...
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 26, 2016, 06:26:25 PM
Wow - quite a mixed reaction! Thanks to those who are pleased but for everyone who is disappointed please bear in mind this is only our second item of stock!

The KFA is from 1987 (nearly 30 years old!) so has much more spread than just post-privatisation.

If anyone has bright ideas of transition era rolling stock then we are happy to hear them. 

Cheers

Mike

MK1 POT. Gresley TPO. Newton Chambers Car Carriers.......
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Bob G on March 26, 2016, 06:27:28 PM
Wow - quite a mixed reaction! Thanks to those who are pleased but for everyone who is disappointed please bear in mind this is only our second item of stock!

The KFA is from 1987 (nearly 30 years old!) so has much more spread than just post-privatisation.

If anyone has bright ideas of transition era rolling stock then we are happy to hear them. 

Cheers

Mike

Well Mike, no one seems to be interested in 35t Class B tanks, and they are an interesting, broad era (1957 to well into diesel era) and well-travelled option.
They fill the gap nicely between the old style 20t 10 foot wheelbase tanks and the 15 foot TTA at 45t.
A rake of 21 weathered ones with Esso logos please, to go behind my 9F and/or 33 on route to/from Fawley.

Bob

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 26, 2016, 06:30:54 PM
Wow - quite a mixed reaction! Thanks to those who are pleased but for everyone who is disappointed please bear in mind this is only our second item of stock!

The KFA is from 1987 (nearly 30 years old!) so has much more spread than just post-privatisation.

If anyone has bright ideas of transition era rolling stock then we are happy to hear them. 

Cheers

Mike


Well Mike, no one seems to be interested in 35t Class B tanks, and they are an interesting, broad era (1957 to well into diesel era) and well-travelled option.
They fill the gap nicely between the old style 20t 10 foot wheelbase tanks and the 15 foot TTA at 45t.
A rake of 21 weathered ones with Esso logos please, to go behind my 9F and/or 33 on route to/from Fawley.

Bob

Was just about to edit my post to include the 35T class B tanks......
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 26, 2016, 06:37:35 PM
Hello all,

Thanks to those who came and chatted to us at the York show today.  Great to meet so many people.

The KFAs seem to be going down well - as Mike says they are nearly 30 years old now and we've gone further back in time with this one than any of our previous models.

The transition era question is a tricky one.  Generating the publicity material, research, social media presence, exhibition handouts and of course actually striking a deal with a manufacturer is not trivial and takes us many hours of work.

Received wisdom is that it's the most popular period and yet we tried and failed with the Class 21/9 which is slap bang in the middle.  Our research showed these locos operated from London to most of East Anglia, across Scotland and down as far as Birmingahm on occasion. 

Indeed, the locos were arguably more widespread than the Pendolino in operation, and in some ways required less of a leap of faith since we had already shown significant evidence of progress when we launched.

The Pendolino is not just selling to those modelling the WCML. Many people are buying to support the crowd-funding concept, because they feel this, as the first, is something special, or because they like iconic trains.

I accept that the 21/9 doesn't exactly fit that bill, but it was quirky, interesting, cute in a fugly kind of way and going with Dapol we felt would reassure people that the face would be right, since they've got the same face right on the 22.

And modern modellers have also stepped up for the TEA tankers, and the 320/321s, even though they are, in some ways, georgraphically or operationally limited.

And yet... Not nearly enough people stepped up for the 21/9.  Wrong location, wrong loco, wrong livery, wrong era.   Lots and lots of perfectly reasonable excuses on an individual basis, but collectively they send the message that transition era modellers are either unwilling to compromise, or take a punt on something, or simply uninterested in engaging in this production model.

And not just our model.  DJM/Karhedron Autocoach, N-tastic mermaids... All failed.

All that's perfectly fine, and I have no problem with it, but that is the basic reason why we have gone back to what we are confident will generate enough interest.

Bearing in mind that Mike and I have no gut feeling about this era - we don't model it or know it - then we just have to go with empirical experience.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: gc4946 on March 26, 2016, 06:47:34 PM
Wow - quite a mixed reaction! Thanks to those who are pleased but for everyone who is disappointed please bear in mind this is only our second item of stock!

The KFA is from 1987 (nearly 30 years old!) so has much more spread than just post-privatisation.

If anyone has bright ideas of transition era rolling stock then we are happy to hear them. 

Cheers

Mike

Vanwides and their refurbishment as VEAs
Diesel brake tenders
Bogie Bolster E and their re-building as Turbots
Gresley 61' BG/pigeon vans (lasted well into the 70s)
BR continental ferry van (VIX)




Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: G_N_E_R on March 26, 2016, 07:02:08 PM
I'm being a nonce and can't see where to order the wagon from :headbutt: can anyone help?  :bounce: Cheers!

Ps. How can I persuade you to make a 92!
Kindest Regards
Phil

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on March 26, 2016, 07:04:02 PM
Click on shop then N gauge and then KFA.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on March 26, 2016, 07:12:24 PM

Vanwides and their refurbishment as VEAs
Diesel brake tenders
Bogie Bolster E and their re-building as Turbots
Gresley 61' BG/pigeon vans (lasted well into the 70s)
BR continental ferry van (VIX)

All good ideas unfortunately most have been done as kits (some by Parkwood now NGS) that wouldn't make too much sense to duplicate as we're trying to expand what is available (plus the issue of whether the market is big enough).

Cheers

M
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Smiffy on March 26, 2016, 07:34:26 PM
Will probably only have a couple for a RHTT set and a couple to add to a container train, a suitable bin liner container might have had me opting for more.  But I think my funds won't stretch that far as deposits for two 321s and light bars for the Pendolinos, plus 2 new mattresses and a fridge freezer, have my wallet screaming.

Do GBRF use there's on container traffic or just for Gypsum?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: NeMo on March 26, 2016, 07:45:44 PM
All good ideas unfortunately most have been done as kits (some by Parkwood now NGS) that wouldn't make too much sense to duplicate as we're trying to expand what is available (plus the issue of whether the market is big enough).

Exactly. I think we all have wish lists (an EM1, a Metropolitan line Bo-Bo, and a 4TC would all be on it) but in all honesty I can't see any of these as "must haves" for those modellers not interested in the post-privatisation railways.

We're actually quite lucky that the NGS cranks out some brilliant kits for anyone modelling from the 1920s onwards. So even the relatively obvious gaps in the RTR market are likely to be pluggable using kits.

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Thorpe Parva on March 26, 2016, 08:38:40 PM
Wow - quite a mixed reaction! Thanks to those who are pleased but for everyone who is disappointed please bear in mind this is only our second item of stock!

The KFA is from 1987 (nearly 30 years old!) so has much more spread than just post-privatisation.

If anyone has bright ideas of transition era rolling stock then we are happy to hear them. 

Cheers

Mike

Well Mike, no one seems to be interested in 35t Class B tanks, and they are an interesting, broad era (1957 to well into diesel era) and well-travelled option.
They fill the gap nicely between the old style 20t 10 foot wheelbase tanks and the 15 foot TTA at 45t.
A rake of 21 weathered ones with Esso logos please, to go behind my 9F and/or 33 on route to/from Fawley.

Bob

As a Transition Era modeller I would certainly be interested in these as I had several built from Airfix Kits in my 4mm modelling days.

A couple of other Wagons that spring to mind are the Palbrick & 20t Coke Hopper although I realise that the 2mm Society have etched kits for these.

I'm pretty well served by RTR & Kits for my era/location except for the one major missing item which is the Class 28.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 26, 2016, 08:48:28 PM
Hi Guys,

Have you considered getting some Bin liner containers done? RTR or kits would work for me.

Don't C-Rail do them?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: porkie on March 26, 2016, 09:28:36 PM
Hi Guys,

Have you considered getting some Bin liner containers done? RTR or kits would work for me.

Arran Aird already does the MOD containers, perhaps he would be interested?

Regards,

John P


Hi John,  Binliner containers are available  here  http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/specialist-containers.php (http://www.wildboarmodels.co.uk/specialist-containers.php)

I'm also looking at doing a waste train too
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Bob Tidbury on March 26, 2016, 09:34:58 PM
Ian Stoat Models also done bin liners to fit on the old style container wagons so I might order the correct wagons and re use the others to make a longer container train . Some else to add to my wish list or in my case dream on list now we are both retired .
Bob
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: porkie on March 26, 2016, 09:35:13 PM
Wow This is great news  :laugh3:

As I model from the late 80's to 2000 this will fit perfectly in my time frame.

Deffo will be placing an order for 10 wagons, Just got to find info on what would be best to use as a bin liner rake aswell as normal container flows.

cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: mickster04 on March 26, 2016, 10:20:47 PM
So as I model 80s and 90s am I right in thinking none of the liveries really suit my era? even if the wagon did?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on March 26, 2016, 10:39:53 PM
According to the website there are 6 liveries including, as delivered from the factory, in the 80's.

Also with regards to the bin liner containers even the Wild Board ones are quite pricey compared to a plastic kit or rtr.

I did do a google search but could only find Vonzacks containers.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 26, 2016, 10:48:26 PM
So as I model 80s and 90s am I right in thinking none of the liveries really suit my era? even if the wagon did?

The two versions coded PFA certainly fit your period plus at least the KFA branded Tiphook Rail. Tiphook Rail was sold in 1996 but the branding did not disappear immediately.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on March 26, 2016, 11:08:49 PM
Well I am in for some well aslong as the pennies are there.
Hmm a rake for binliners and a rake for MOD train.

One thing that got me was the fact they are not modelled but in daily use for well almost 30 years.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 27, 2016, 10:03:14 AM
Hello all,

In answer to some of the questions where I can.... Please bear in mind I am still researching some of the older flows for these wagons; the map we have published is for post 2010 operations.

Mickster:  The wagons were built in two batches.  The first 40 came in 1987 and were used initially to take contaminated spoil from Chatham docks to Stewartby refuse site in Bedforshre.   They were coded PFA and had pale blue GPS bogies. 

These were used on other traffics, then some appeared to have the bogies repainted yellow, and some were fitted with Tiphook placards.  I am not sure exactly when this took place, but I believe it was around 1990-2 and I think is when they were recorded to KFA.

Some of these have been more recently repainted black and used by Network Rail; I am not sure if the remainder are in use or stored.

The other type came in from 1988 on the Y25 bogies; they too were blue and coded PFA.  These had Tiphook Rail on the right hand end of the sole bar and from the start have been used in a wide variety of traffic from intermodal to MOD, gypsum and bin liners.  These were also recoded KFA in the 1990s and  bogies have been repainted black on the majority, though under the crud I have been told some are still blue though I can't say for sure.

On some the Tiphook Rail has been removed and small Freightliner labels applied.  This represents the final type we are doing.

All the above livery variants are being offered; covering the full lives of both types so far.  There is one variant we are not offering which is that some have been left dirty but had just the sides repainted blue.  I am not sure why only half a job was done!

Mike and I did talk about containers but on the smallish quantities we will be producing the tooling would add significantly to the cost of each wagon.  Having said that, both gypsum and bin liner containers would be very useful and we retain an open mind as to whether we should offer these as separate items in time; however there are some good options available from the 3D print designers.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 27, 2016, 10:24:39 AM
Thanks for the update Ben.

Is the Y25 bogie the low pivot height VNH1 variant, which I believe is shaped slightly differently at the outer ends from the standard cast Y25C? The VNH1 was also used on the Procar 80 single wagon double deck car transporters to gain a bit of extra height for the load.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 27, 2016, 10:36:42 AM
Did these run into West Cornwall in the late 80's early 90's, or could I use rule 1 for a delivery of MOD containers for Culdrose? I was thinking of getting 1 of the earliest livery for a mixed freight.


Found a picture on 13 April 2013 of one going to Plymouth, but you might not want to model the load! Scroll down on this page:-

http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/NEWS-2013-APR.htm (http://www.tauntontrains.co.uk/NEWS-2013-APR.htm)

I think you could justify one for Cornwall in the early years. What about a couple of flat containers with large castings on board.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: porkie on March 27, 2016, 11:12:51 AM
Hello all,

In answer to some of the questions where I can.... Please bear in mind I am still researching some of the older flows for these wagons; the map we have published is for post 2010 operations.

Mickster:  The wagons were built in two batches.  The first 40 came in 1987 and were used initially to take contaminated spoil from Chatham docks to Stewartby refuse site in Bedforshre.   They were coded PFA and had pale blue GPS bogies. 

These were used on other traffics, then some appeared to have the bogies repainted yellow, and some were fitted with Tiphook placards.  I am not sure exactly when this took place, but I believe it was around 1990-2 and I think is when they were recorded to KFA.

Some of these have been more recently repainted black and used by Network Rail; I am not sure if the remainder are in use or stored.

The other type came in from 1988 on the Y25 bogies; they too were blue and coded PFA.  These had Tiphook Rail on the right hand end of the sole bar and from the start have been used in a wide variety of traffic from intermodal to MOD, gypsum and bin liners.  These were also recoded KFA in the 1990s and  bogies have been repainted black on the majority, though under the crud I have been told some are still blue though I can't say for sure.

On some the Tiphook Rail has been removed and small Freightliner labels applied.  This represents the final type we are doing.

All the above livery variants are being offered; covering the full lives of both types so far.  There is one variant we are not offering which is that some have been left dirty but had just the sides repainted blue.  I am not sure why only half a job was done!

Mike and I did talk about containers but on the smallish quantities we will be producing the tooling would add significantly to the cost of each wagon.  Having said that, both gypsum and bin liner containers would be very useful and we retain an open mind as to whether we should offer these as separate items in time; however there are some good options available from the 3D print designers.

Cheers

Ben A.

Thanks for the information Ben.

Deffo makes it easier to decide on which one's would suit my era's best

Phil
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Buzzard on March 27, 2016, 12:03:02 PM
For the record here's some prototype information from the book titled Wagon Recognition Volume 1 by Martin Buck and Mark Rawlinson.

Details following are operator, TOPS prefix and range(s) of running numbers

Roxby binliner - GMC - 92500 to 92542 and 92580 to 92588
Freightliner/MOD - RLS - 92547 to 92562 and 92611 to  92651
Avon binliner - AVON - 92563 to 92579
Freightliner/MOD - TIPH - 93292 to 93489
Edinburgh binliner - EDC - 95240 to 95431

HTH
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PWayman on March 27, 2016, 12:43:55 PM
Revolution in my view are correcting possibly the most neglected part of the model railway scene appertaining over so many years. That is, the overhead electric parts of the modelling scene.
  I have been modelling WCML for years and have had to rely on class 87's with DVTS for so long along with class 90's and Dapol's excellent class 86's as more modern trains have simply not been available. Along come Ben and Mike with the Pendolino. I was overjoyed. I have 2, 9 car units on order (my loops will not hold 11 cars) and now they offer lighting units for the 390  and now class 321's to come.
  I understand why proprietry manufacturers have been reluctant to produce the 390 with the obvious high cost of each train but a leap of faith by Ben and Mike showed there was a market and one crying out for the product.
  Well done Ben and Mike, Keep up the good work filling the gaps up ! 

  With the GF class 350 unit and the awaited class 319 unit the modern electric scene has never had it so good.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Roy L S on March 27, 2016, 01:23:28 PM
Hello all,


The transition era question is a tricky one.  Generating the publicity material, research, social media presence, exhibition handouts and of course actually striking a deal with a manufacturer is not trivial and takes us many hours of work.

Received wisdom is that it's the most popular period and yet we tried and failed with the Class 21/9 which is slap bang in the middle.  Our research showed these locos operated from London to most of East Anglia, across Scotland and down as far as Birmingahm on occasion. 

Indeed, the locos were arguably more widespread than the Pendolino in operation, and in some ways required less of a leap of faith since we had already shown significant evidence of progress when we launched.

The Pendolino is not just selling to those modelling the WCML. Many people are buying to support the crowd-funding concept, because they feel this, as the first, is something special, or because they like iconic trains.

I accept that the 21/9 doesn't exactly fit that bill, but it was quirky, interesting, cute in a fugly kind of way and going with Dapol we felt would reassure people that the face would be right, since they've got the same face right on the 22.

And modern modellers have also stepped up for the TEA tankers, and the 320/321s, even though they are, in some ways, georgraphically or operationally limited.

And yet... Not nearly enough people stepped up for the 21/9.  Wrong location, wrong loco, wrong livery, wrong era.   Lots and lots of perfectly reasonable excuses on an individual basis, but collectively they send the message that transition era modellers are either unwilling to compromise, or take a punt on something, or simply uninterested in engaging in this production model.

And not just our model.  DJM/Karhedron Autocoach, N-tastic mermaids... All failed.

All that's perfectly fine, and I have no problem with it, but that is the basic reason why we have gone back to what we are confident will generate enough interest.

Bearing in mind that Mike and I have no gut feeling about this era - we don't model it or know it - then we just have to go with empirical experience.

Cheers

Ben A.

Hi Ben

I came to this rather late in the day yesterday. If I am honest, the announcement of another model more aligned to modern times is no surprise at all. I accept that this is yours and Mike's area of knowledge and given that you two are the ones that do much of the hard work to bring it to fruition that is entirely understandable.

What I do not agree with is your conclusion that from the examples you give there may be no market for a steam/diesel transition (or possibly earlier) "kickstarter" in N. Matt's (Actually a GW Streamline Railcar rather than an auto coach) was the very first and in many ways the one from which lessons could be learned.

Richard's RTR Mermaid Kickstarter was "pulled" when DJM Dave announced his own model (first test shots since seen). Arguably the funding level for just a wagon was very optimistic given the units that would have needed to be subscribed to  reach it. I am sure Richard felt it was achievable and I merely observe rather than criticise in saying this.

Then your own 21/29. To compare th1s loco to a Pendo in terms of potential (in my view) a little off the mark. More accurate against a Pendo would maybe have been a Deltic from the Transition era.

There are, I think a number of reasons why the 21/29 did not get close to it's goal (I don't think you ever published how far short or by way of comparison how much closer the 320/321 was?).

First is the relative obscurity of the loco. Arguably the very reason no RTR manufacturer has done it - possibly just a little too "niche"? I wanted two and was disappointed it wouldn't proceed but maybe not enough felt the same..

Second - none preserved. I can go to Chinnor and see a Class 17, but the 21/29 fell into obscurity.

Thirdly, I hate to say it but did the choice of manufacture make some think twice? It didn't me but may have others as against Rapido who appear altogether more visible and dynamic in their approach. Dave (DJM) I am confident based on the 00 models we have seen would have done a good job too, and he also seems much closer to the customers.

Fourth. We don't actually know how well the 22 did sell. Maybe it didn't do as well as we assume?

For sure there is a demand for subscriber based Transition models. Just look at the success of the NGS RTR projects to see that. Indeed it may just be possible that this is where your potential Transition "Kickstarters" are currently lurking?!

I am delighted for our scale as a whole that your initial forays into this route for funding models have been so successful. It can only help with the profile of modelling of British N at a time when by comparison manufacturers are slowing down/consolidating. All I would suggest is that you do not close your minds to the possibility of future transition models. I feel there are plenty that would meet your minimum subscriber level.

I know it is all very well to say all of this without making any suggestions. So my final comment in this long and rambling post is: -

For steam models, the most obvious omission is the LNER tank loco. Until the eventual arrival of the Farish J72 (Not even in CAD yet!) there are precisely none currently! I would think the J50, based on the seeming success of the Hornby model, with the right publicity and choice of manufacturer would meet your minimum order quality and it would be a simple 0-6-0 tank loco as a first steamer to boot..

Best wishes

Roy

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: martyn on March 27, 2016, 01:43:04 PM
"For steam models, the most obvious omission is the LNER tank loco. Until the eventual arrival of the Farish J72 (Not even in CAD yet!) there are precisely none currently! I would think the J50, based on the seeming success of the Hornby model, with the right publicity and choice of manufacturer would meet your minimum order quality and it would be a simple 0-6-0 tank loco as a first steamer to boot.."

How about a J67/69? Chassis might be a problem (but very similar to a J72), and distribution in LNER days was Stratford to Perth, Lowestoft to Wrexham; though they did tend to 'come home' in later years, and of course there were none on the ex NER area, where the native 0-6-0s and 0-6-2s reigned. It looks as if J50s tended to stay close to the ex GNR/ ECML area, though not exclusively. And Hornby's model does seem to have been successful.
Martyn
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 27, 2016, 03:10:55 PM
Ordered KFA for Rail Head Treatment Train.

Nice one guys.

As for future items, how about earlier Pullman cars than those previously produced?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on March 27, 2016, 03:33:35 PM
Order in for a 3 pack on Y25's
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 27, 2016, 07:37:00 PM
Hello all,

Apologies - here is the useage map I intended to upload previously.  It only shows traffic I have found photographic evidence for since 2010, and doesn't include binliners or RHTT.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/5/thumb_37247.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37247)

The CAD of the first version with GPS bogies is well in hand, though it is missing the TOPS panel and couplers.  Here are a few more images.  The blue ribs under the wagon will be diecast metal for additional weight.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/5/thumb_37195.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37195)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/5/thumb_37193.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37193)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/5/thumb_37192.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37192)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/5/thumb_37194.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=37194)

The buffers on this type are different to those on the later Tiphook ones, and both types of buffers are being tooled.

Mike - I don't honestly know which of the Y25s these have but Rapido are working to drawings provided when they were last refurbished, so they should be right.

Buzzard - thanks, I checked that book and the ones we are doing (TIPH prefix) are those listed with Freightliner and MOD, but are also in use with DBS and GBRf.

Roy - fair enough, but why would an LNER loco (presumably only used on mixed traffic between London and Edinburgh?) do any better than a mixed traffic loco used in East Anglia and Scotland? 

I take the point that there are no 29s preserved; my point was that the cab casting was the same between the 22 and 29 so Dapol only need to copy and paste it in CAD to get it right.  I have no idea how successful the 22 has been but Dapol have re-run it since initial release, so it can't have done too badly.  Apologies for mis-identifying Matthew's GWR coach but the point stands; maybe the Mermaid failed due to the DJM announcement.  Nonetheless, at the moment the empirical evidence we have is that transition era modellers don't "step up."

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 27, 2016, 08:06:34 PM
Can people please stop calling all these projects "kickstarters". Kickstarter is a company who provide a crowdfunding platform. Since the initial Pendo efforts none of the RevolutioN models have had a presence on Kickstarter, and none of them have been funded via Kickstarter!

It's slightly anarchic, but I'm amused by all the steam/transition era modellers getting their knickers in a twist because it's not something for them. Makes a change compared to all the announcements from mainstream manufacturers to be focusing on modern stuff!  >:D
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 27, 2016, 09:24:50 PM
I'm not sure it's strictly a case of panties in a spiral, more a sense of frustration that of the five projects announced so far, four have been modern image and fifty percent of those four have been wagons, with a lower unit retail cost than a locomotive. One of the four is an iconic full rake train that appeals to both modellers and collectors alike, much as an APT or prototype HST would and a Blue Pullman (In Nanking Blue) already has.

Many backers have a bought a Pendolino purely on the basis of trying to support this new (to the model railway world) funding route, myself included.

Would the empirical evidence indicate differently if transition modellers had a wagon or a coach to support?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PaulCheffus on March 27, 2016, 09:31:16 PM
I'm not sure it's strictly a case of panties in a spiral, more a sense of frustration that of the five projects announced so far, four have been modern image and fifty percent of those four have been wagons, with a lower unit retail cost than a locomotive. One of the four is an iconic full rake train that appeals to both modellers and collectors alike, much as an APT or prototype HST would and a Blue Pullman (In Nanking Blue) already has.

Many backers have a bought a Pendolino purely on the basis of trying to support this new (to the model railway world) funding route, myself included.

Would the empirical evidence indicate differently if transition modellers had a wagon or a coach to support?

Hi

It's been mentioned before but would a decent crane fit the bill as they cover a vast timescale.

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 27, 2016, 09:36:20 PM
much as an APT or prototype HST would

We'll see on the latter as Dapol are doing it...!

Quote
Would the empirical evidence indicate differently if transition modellers had a wagon or a coach to support?

Haven't there been failed wagons too?

Mike and Ben have Invested many hundreds of hours of their own time, don't blame them for not taking a punt on something that's outside their area of expertise on the back of people saying "this would definitely sell", when past experience suggests otherwise...
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 27, 2016, 09:50:51 PM
There haven't been any failed wagons from RevolutioN.

N-tastic's Mermaid crowdfunding campaign was cancelled by N-tastic on announcement from DJM.

The comment was that transition modellers weren't stepping up to the crowdfunding model. I was only suggesting that if they had been asked to support a £15-£25 wagon rather than a circa £110 locomotive, as modern image modellers were on announcement of the TEAs, the uptake might have been better. Maybe not.

There was nothing said about blaming Mike and Ben for anything, merely a reasoning to consider that the evidence may be biased.

RevolutioN have proposed one transition era model, the class 21/29. No-one said it would definitely sell. In fact, I'm not sure anyone said it would sell at all. Ben and Mike asked for a proposal to be put forward, on this forum, along with a few other suggestions for other models. A poll was attached. Whilst I believe my pitch was compelling enough, it was Ben and Mike who decided to open the class 21/29 to pledges.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Roy L S on March 27, 2016, 09:57:22 PM

Hello all,

Roy - fair enough, but why would an LNER loco (presumably only used on mixed traffic between London and Edinburgh?) do any better than a mixed traffic loco used in East Anglia and Scotland? 

I take the point that there are no 29s preserved; my point was that the cab casting was the same between the 22 and 29 so Dapol only need to copy and paste it in CAD to get it right.  I have no idea how successful the 22 has been but Dapol have re-run it since initial release, so it can't have done too badly.  Apologies for mis-identifying Matthew's GWR coach but the point stands; maybe the Mermaid failed due to the DJM announcement.  Nonetheless, at the moment the empirical evidence we have is that transition era modellers don't "step up."

cheers

Ben A.


Hi Ben

For avoidance of any doubt I am pleased for those that will benefit that you are working on another modern wagon. There are no "sour grapes" on my part. I do not agree with your conclusion as regards transition models but respect entirely that it is for you and Mike to decide what you invest your time and effort into.

If you are referring to the J50 v the 21/29 in your question (and apologies if you are not), then I think I would start with their length of service and wider geographical spread (albeit as others have said somewhat less than the full LNER network). Also a steam loco is arguably a different proposition to relatively unsuccessful (if quirky) Modernisation Plan Diesel and will appeal to more modellers who model over a longer timeframe (including LNER, BR Early, and BR Late Crests).

Principally a freight loco and some not even having vacuum brakes if memory serves. Most would have been used on local freight of various kinds, including inter-regional freights at the London end. I believe they were occasionally used on local passenger turns.

The link here provides a fuller and more useful insight: -

http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j50j51.php (http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j50j51.php)

Two whitemetal kits were made many years ago - ABS Beaver and Graham Hughes both unavailable now - plus N Brass kit also made as very limited run RTR also moons back too.

The only RTR LNER Tank loco ever produced was the Farish J69 in 1970-73! So one might also consider the V1/V3 Tank or the N2 0-6-2 Tank as possibilities.

Turning to tender locos, the K1 would be unlikely by either Farish or Dapol as Hornby collared the 00 market with their fabulous model (and we are told have lost interest in anything further in N). I would think that with a Ben/Mike/Rapido approach to marketing that would be very likely to meet minimum order too.

I haven't even touched on other companies but the point is there are many, many steam locos as yet untouched which look realistic but in truth very few remaining diesels one could say the same of.

Also, don't forget Industrials - some small to medium sized shunters by say, Hunslet, Ruston, Sentinel etc and what about the chain driven Sentinel Y1/Y3 vertical boilered steam loco? Now something like that, never done RTR in British N DCC ready (with sound?!?!)would probably meet the "quirkiness" factor in spades..

Turning to rolling stock, we Transition modellers are really well supplied, the manufacturers have done us proud there, but were I to suggest a couple, they would be the Carflat or possibly even better the famous ICI hoppers that Oxford are doing in 00 that had such an incredibly long life (from the 1940s through to the early 90s).

Anyway, I've probably said more than enough for now. I hope the RevolutioN/Rapido partnership continues to be successful, whatever the products are.

Regards

Roy


Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on March 27, 2016, 10:18:34 PM
Hi all,

With this debate about Transition and Steam Era models creeping in and taking over I started a new thread so we can dicuss it instead of it taking over this thread

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=32519.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=32519.0)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on March 27, 2016, 11:22:02 PM
Thanks for the update Ben.

Is the Y25 bogie the low pivot height VNH1 variant, which I believe is shaped slightly differently at the outer ends from the standard cast Y25C? The VNH1 was also used on the Procar 80 single wagon double deck car transporters to gain a bit of extra height for the load.

Yes I'm pretty sure the bogie is the VNH1.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: midsummerend on March 28, 2016, 01:18:12 AM
Definitely think the ICI wagon would be one to look at.  It would appeal to so many.  I agree that transition modellers are fairly well stocked in N for private owner wagons etc, however, it would be nice to see a Ferry Van and also a cartic as well.  Maybe even a rectangle tank wagon as these aren't produced in N scale.  I could even suggest some nice Pullman Coaches as the only ones we have at present are the MK1 pullmans.  Not sure how they'd fair though with regards to licensing with the crests etc?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 28, 2016, 09:36:32 AM

Anyway, I've probably said more than enough for now. I hope the RevolutioN/Rapido partnership continues to be successful, whatever the products are.

Regards

Roy

Hi Roy,

Thanks for that.  I have sort of picked up this discussion on the other thread that's focused on possible transition era models.

Just one point - Revolution came about in part because Mike and I accepted that the NGS would always need to focus on the biggest market (the transition era) and we realised that modern models would never come via that route.  The NGS is still producing niche models, with the Thompson BGs imminent and another item due to be announced at the AGM this summer.

And please keep your comments coming - we are always happy to chat about this stuff!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: NeMo on March 28, 2016, 10:48:20 AM
Mike and I accepted that the NGS would always need to focus on the biggest market (the transition era) and we realised that modern models would never come via that route.

Upon which note can somebody please tell Dapol to get a St Ivel liveried 6-wheel milk tanker done! Colourful, common, ubiquitous in the West Country behind all those 'Westerns' and 'Warships'. Seems an obvious NGS commission, but what do I know.  :confused1:

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 28, 2016, 10:51:49 AM
Getting back to the KFAs (I know, guilty as charged), I'm curious. Knowing not that much about such modern skeleton wagons, are these different from those that carry the Tesco and Asda containers from Mossend to Aberdeen and Inverness?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 28, 2016, 10:54:28 AM
Getting back to the KFAs (I know, guilty as charged), I'm curious. Knowing not that much about such modern skeleton wagons, are these different from those that carry the Tesco and Asda containers from Mossend to Aberdeen and Inverness?

Dunno about Asda, but the Tesco/Stobart flow uses IKA Megafret wagons, which Dapol make. They're in permanently coupled pairs. Quite different to the KFAs.   
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 28, 2016, 10:56:53 AM
Getting back to the KFAs (I know, guilty as charged), I'm curious. Knowing not that much about such modern skeleton wagons, are these different from those that carry the Tesco and Asda containers from Mossend to Aberdeen and Inverness?

Dunno about Asda, but the Tesco/Stobart flow uses IKA Megafret wagons, which Dapol make. They're in permanently coupled pairs. Quite different to the KFAs.

Thanks, I'm sure the Asda ones are on the same as Tesco are.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 28, 2016, 12:01:34 PM

Hi there,

The megafrets were introduced when hi-cube containers, that are 9'6" tall, started to become widely used.  They are too high for our loading gauge, so wagons were needed with lowered decks.

The first solution was the pocket wagon, and this is still in use but limited to 40' containers due to the length of the pocket.  Megafrets, euro-twins and other similar wagons can carry longer 45' hi-cube containers.  I think the Asda containers are this type.  Recently I believe some 50' containers were introduced.

Having said that, key intermodal routes from Southampton and Felixstowe have been adapted to the larger European gauge which allows wagons with the "normal" deck height to carry high cube containers.

The position of the ISO twistlocks on KFAs limits them to 40', 30' and 20' containers.   This isn't a huge problem at the moment because for deep sea containers by far the most common is the 40'. 

There seem to be very few 30' containers in use; those I have seen are predominantly specialist tank containers such as the Rugby Cement ones.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Calnefoxile on March 28, 2016, 12:04:39 PM
Hello all,

Mickster:  The wagons were built in two batches.  The first 40 came in 1987 and were used initially to take contaminated spoil from Chatham docks to Stewartby refuse site in Bedforshre.   They were coded PFA and had pale blue GPS bogies. 

Cheers

Ben A.

Hey good luck with these guys, at least you're getting closer to my era of 75-85  ;) ;)

Cheers

Neal.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on March 28, 2016, 01:32:25 PM
Look I know how much time and effort Ben and Mike put into this I have done it on my own. I lost several 100 hours of my life on the mermaid plus hard earn't cash. I personnel think they are on the right path sticking to what they know, problems always occur when you try to be a Jake of all trades. Which is why I returned to what I knew and choose the mermaid i.e. GWR/WR. But I priced it very low to encourage backers, kept my goal as low as possible, signed up 3 retailers, was likely to make no profit and may have had to find any short fall myself. The mermaid covered the whole of the late GWR region the whole of BRWR area traveled, spread out over the Midland, Scottish, Eastern and possible Southern regions, into Sectorisation, EWS and into preservation. Yet models were still very reluctant to back it and once DJ Models announced theirs would be on sale by April this year several cancelled pledges and pledging stopped. This is despite mine being cheaper, DJ Models having produced nothing in N Gauge at the time.

So yes I think Ben and Mike are right the Transition era and before modelers are reluctant to put money up front for model unseen (that was quoted to me several times). Stick to what you know, I certainly won't be back as I have better thinks to waste my time on. :(
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Arrachogaidh on March 28, 2016, 04:25:49 PM
Definitely think the ICI wagon would be one to look at.  It would appeal to so many.  I agree that transition modellers are fairly well stocked in N for private owner wagons etc, however, it would be nice to see a Ferry Van and also a cartic as well.  Maybe even a rectangle tank wagon as these aren't produced in N scale.  I could even suggest some nice Pullman Coaches as the only ones we have at present are the MK1 pullmans.  Not sure how they'd fair though with regards to licensing with the crests etc?


As I first mentioned Pullman Cars, here is a listing of various generations :~

http://www.britishrailways.info/pullman_cars.htm (http://www.britishrailways.info/pullman_cars.htm)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: CaleyDave on March 28, 2016, 11:00:13 PM
For the record here's some prototype information from the book titled Wagon Recognition Volume 1 by Martin Buck and Mark Rawlinson.

Details following are operator, TOPS prefix and range(s) of running numbers

Roxby binliner - GMC - 92500 to 92542 and 92580 to 92588
Freightliner/MOD - RLS - 92547 to 92562 and 92611 to  92651
Avon binliner - AVON - 92563 to 92579
Freightliner/MOD - TIPH - 93292 to 93489
Edinburgh binliner - EDC - 95240 to 95431

HTH

Oh dear just when I thought I may be able to get away with 1 or 2 in Freightliner to add to the end of the rake and keep things cheap.
Will see if I am able to catch the Edinburgh binliners next week and get some photos or a video to confirm this is the case!

Considering my justification for the TEA's was they operated 'locally', at around 25 miles away, I guess I will need to get a few given they operate only about 2 miles away. This may just have gotten more expensive.

:NGFWagonTour:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Buzzard on March 29, 2016, 02:44:42 PM
the ones we are doing (TIPH prefix) are those listed with Freightliner and MOD, but are also in use with DBS and GBRf.

Ben,

From your earlier statement would I be right in saying that you're only doing the TIPH prefixed wagons? 

If so that means for anyone wanting a binliner rake e.g. CaleyDave they'll need to invoke Rule 1 in addition to finding a source of containers.  Rule 1 would really be required for the Edinburgh ones as the real things have TOPS panels and handwheels in different positions.

Nigel
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 29, 2016, 03:07:40 PM
Hi Nigel,

Yes, we are doing the Tiphook (Finnish built) versions as they are the most numerous, and from my research have seen the most varied use.

I think it also depends on your definition of Rule 1.  Using a Farish freight liner flat - wrong TOPS code, no buffers, wrong (fictional) bogies, is what I would consider Rule 1.

Using a flat with the same TOPS code, shape and bogies, albeit from a different batch, is considerably less of a compromise in my view!

The differences that I have spotted between the Standard Wagon and the Rautaruukki built versions are the buffer shape, handbrakewheel type, presence of ferry hooks, shape of deck strengthening fillets and positioning of some elements of air brake equipment

I think fitting new buffers, changing the brake wheel, removing the ferry hooks and moving the TOPS panel, while fairly simple, would create a wagon that satisfies 99% of viewers.

Of course, if you're in the 1% who can't accept those compromises then fair enough!

Also I understand the Tiphook wagons have been used on spoil/waste traffic, though I am not sure which specific flows yet.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on March 29, 2016, 03:43:54 PM
Quote
I think it also depends on your definition of Rule 1.  Using a Farish freight liner flat - wrong TOPS code, no buffers, wrong (fictional) bogies, is what I would consider Rule 1.

Using a flat with the same TOPS code, shape and bogies, albeit from a different batch, is considerably less of a compromise in my view!

+1

Unless you want to model the exact fleet numbers on a given day, with the correct loco, that's a bloody close offering!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: CaleyDave on March 29, 2016, 05:09:30 PM
As Buzzard pointed out, the wagons are slightly different. The proposed "Version 1" As delivered look to be the closest.

Long story short I found my self up town today and made my way East to see if I could catch the Binliners. I Got lucky as when I approached the wall I found them behind a 67 in Caledonian sleeper Livery just starting to pull away from a signal.

http://youtu.be/K9xnST46OCc (http://youtu.be/K9xnST46OCc)


Look forward to further research and information.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on March 29, 2016, 05:15:55 PM
A very uniform spacing of containers, 2 per wagon with the front position empty, or is it that 3 containers won't fit?

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on March 29, 2016, 05:29:10 PM
Not sure if there is a difference in the containers but I know the Northernden Bin flats and the ones from Salford always go full may be a case of there wasn't a full load of c  :censored: p this weekend it was a bank holiday after all!

Although Mike and Ben wouldn't be able to tell it was a bank holiday after York  :'(
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on March 29, 2016, 05:40:38 PM
Hi Acko,

I was referring to the Edinburgh bin liner in the video.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on March 29, 2016, 05:44:12 PM
I know mate, that what I mean I am not sure if they use different Containers that round Manchester although doubt, I think it may just be a case of less waste than normal with it been the bank holiday and load requirements meaning what they had was placed over the rear axle to aid with braking effort.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on March 29, 2016, 07:02:48 PM
One for note on the MOD usage there was heavy usage of the PFA /KFA between Marchwood Military Port / Cardiff and I believe hull and MOD Ashchurch with the draw down of operations in Afghanistan.

While inside most was general military equipment, some trains were carrying Jackal MWMIK vehicles inside the MOD side loading containers, these were ran with other vehicle carrying formations such as the warwells / flats to Ashchurch for warm storage and deep cleansing on their return from operations.

I have some pic somewhere from a train arriving at Ashchurch with these ISOs on in late 2014 and will get them up when I can find them
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: StufromEGDL on March 29, 2016, 07:16:59 PM
Hi Gang,

I would have liked to plump for some GPS bogies versions....but my 5 just ordered are destined for MoD work...( containers already ordered) so some Tiphook with Y25s are the best option for me.
As I have invested heavily in Dapol and Farish spines/Megafrets/twins, then my container train will occasionally be supplemented/infiltrated by the odd KFA...or if funds allow, then another batch might get procured in the near future.

For now...I'm declaring a 'purchase free April' to reinstate some sanity to the bank account after the KFA and 320 ordering....

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RichardBattersby on March 29, 2016, 08:11:31 PM
Can I ask what a bin liner container is please? People have referred to it earlier on in this thread. I did Google but guess what came up... bin liners!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 29, 2016, 08:33:02 PM
Can I ask what a bin liner container is please? People have referred to it earlier on in this thread. I did Google but guess what came up... bin liners!


It's a train carrying waste, refuse, etc. Usually carried in containers on the flat bed skeleton wagon, e.g. the PFA/KFA.

http://petertandy.co.uk/Buck&OX/66551_6v40_div_quantnrd_490.jpg (http://petertandy.co.uk/Buck&OX/66551_6v40_div_quantnrd_490.jpg)

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ySXprhA4F0/maxresdefault.jpg (https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ySXprhA4F0/maxresdefault.jpg)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8700/16579480048_9f6523b2be_b.jpg (https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8700/16579480048_9f6523b2be_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RichardBattersby on March 29, 2016, 08:41:10 PM
Thank you very much! I had no idea such a thing existed!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: woodbury22uk on March 29, 2016, 08:48:36 PM
Can I ask what a bin liner container is please? People have referred to it earlier on in this thread. I did Google but guess what came up... bin liners!


It's a train carrying waste, refuse, etc. Usually carried in open containers on the flat bed skeleton wagon, e.g. the PFA/KFA.

[url]http://petertandy.co.uk/Buck&OX/66551_6v40_div_quantnrd_490.jpg[/url] ([url]http://petertandy.co.uk/Buck&OX/66551_6v40_div_quantnrd_490.jpg[/url])

[url]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ySXprhA4F0/maxresdefault.jpg[/url] ([url]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ySXprhA4F0/maxresdefault.jpg[/url])

[url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8700/16579480048_9f6523b2be_b.jpg[/url] ([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8700/16579480048_9f6523b2be_b.jpg[/url])


I think that many of the containers are fully enclosed. I remember being at Northolt loading point in the early days of the flow to the disposal point at Calvert.  A bed mattress was part of the waste compressed into the container, and ejected a lot of the less pleasant waste load just as the second end door was being closed. They soon started segregating mattresses to avoid loads self-discharging during loading!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on March 29, 2016, 08:50:01 PM
Can I ask what a bin liner container is please? People have referred to it earlier on in this thread. I did Google but guess what came up... bin liners!


It's a train carrying waste, refuse, etc. Usually carried in open containers on the flat bed skeleton wagon, e.g. the PFA/KFA.

[url]http://petertandy.co.uk/Buck&OX/66551_6v40_div_quantnrd_490.jpg[/url] ([url]http://petertandy.co.uk/Buck&OX/66551_6v40_div_quantnrd_490.jpg[/url])

[url]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ySXprhA4F0/maxresdefault.jpg[/url] ([url]https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2ySXprhA4F0/maxresdefault.jpg[/url])

[url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8700/16579480048_9f6523b2be_b.jpg[/url] ([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8700/16579480048_9f6523b2be_b.jpg[/url])


I think that many of the containers are fully enclosed. I remember being at Northolt loading point in the early days of the flow to the disposal point at Calvert.  A bed mattress was part of the waste compressed into the container, and ejected a lot of the less pleasant waste load just as the second end door was being closed. They soon started segregating mattresses to avoid loads self-discharging during loading!


Yes an error now corrected. It's what happens when you are trying to write course material and look at NGF at the same time.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Buzzard on March 30, 2016, 09:13:36 AM
Hi Nigel,

Yes, we are doing the Tiphook (Finnish built) versions as they are the most numerous, and from my research have seen the most varied use.

I think it also depends on your definition of Rule 1.  Using a Farish freight liner flat - wrong TOPS code, no buffers, wrong (fictional) bogies, is what I would consider Rule 1.

Using a flat with the same TOPS code, shape and bogies, albeit from a different batch, is considerably less of a compromise in my view!

The differences that I have spotted between the Standard Wagon and the Rautaruukki built versions are the buffer shape, handbrakewheel type, presence of ferry hooks, shape of deck strengthening fillets and positioning of some elements of air brake equipment

I think fitting new buffers, changing the brake wheel, removing the ferry hooks and moving the TOPS panel, while fairly simple, would create a wagon that satisfies 99% of viewers.

Of course, if you're in the 1% who can't accept those compromises then fair enough!

Ben,

Apologies for any offence caused, that was not my intention.

Having a rtr KFA is better than no KFA at all so I'm going to say thank you for your efforts so far and I look forward to receiving some in due course.

Nigel
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: pape_timmo on March 30, 2016, 09:46:44 AM
I just know I've got to get a rake of these, it's just the list now, it's all happening at once, Pendo, TEAs, 320/321, KFAs, and I still have to pay the balance on the APT-E in OO...

There's too much month left at the end of the money...

I'm not complaining, honest, I'm delighted to be part of this venture, and that we are getting quality products that mainstream manufacturers don't want to touch.

Well done again Mike and Ben on another project so well received

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Vonzack on March 30, 2016, 12:17:07 PM
Hi,

On the subject of BinLiners, I've designed a few different variants that I'm aware of which are available on Shapeways, but because of the volume required for the print, these end up being quite expensive. I'm looking at different options to make these cheaper, but this won't happen overnight ;-)

Edinburgh Version - https://www.shapeways.com/product/V6FYL6PB9/20-waste-container-edinburgh-white-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485969 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/V6FYL6PB9/20-waste-container-edinburgh-white-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485969)

Bristol Version - https://www.shapeways.com/product/BDQHQ2AWF/20-waste-container-bristol-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485913 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/BDQHQ2AWF/20-waste-container-bristol-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485913)

Manchester Version (pre 80s) - https://www.shapeways.com/product/GVADZ5LC3/20-waste-container-manchester-80s-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485910 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/GVADZ5LC3/20-waste-container-manchester-80s-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485910)

Manchester Version (current) - https://www.shapeways.com/product/BDQHQ2AWF/20-waste-container-bristol-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485913 (https://www.shapeways.com/product/BDQHQ2AWF/20-waste-container-bristol-n-gauge-1-148?li=shop-results&optionId=59485913)

The video posted by CaleyDave was interesting, I haven't seen any pictures or video of this partially loaded. Also towards the end of the rake there's a twin spine wagon thrown in there as well, which is something the Viridor Manchester flow has quite often, but I think that uses an FEA-B.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: mickster04 on March 30, 2016, 08:24:43 PM
Hi,

On the subject of BinLiners, I've designed a few different variants that I'm aware of which are available on Shapeways, but because of the volume required for the print, these end up being quite expensive. I'm looking at different options to make these cheaper, but this won't happen overnight ;-)

...
Cheers, Mark.

One thing that was suggested to me was put more in one 'model' on shapeways. If you have three in the one model the price doesn't increase dramatically as half the cost is the per model charge,not the material. If you out spurs between them too you might save (or lose) a bit too...?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: bluedepot on March 30, 2016, 09:31:44 PM
good choice of wagon i think

i read elsewhere that you can put dapol containers on the new wagons and the lugs are spaced to accept them.

do the dapol containers match in terms of dimensions / looks with the farish ones?  just thinking about whether a mixed up rake will look ok.

a few sample rakes would be good, like you get in rail express sometimes (if people have seen that).  examples of real life trains where just a few PFA/KFA wagons have been used in speedlink, mod or with other container flats would be good - as not many people will be able to afford to buy a full rake of PFA/KFAs.

anyway best of luck to revolution trains in their ventures


tim
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 30, 2016, 11:29:51 PM

Hello all,

Nigel - no problem.  You're right, the Tiphook ones do have some differences so nothing wrong with pointing them out.

Tim - as we go forward I will try to get some sample rake images together as we did with the TEAs; the difficulty is there are just so many flows, and such a variety of container wagons in use, that this may take some time!

Mark - thanks for the information on binliners.  You've identified that one of the difficulties in offering a RTR solution for the binliner containers is that each flow seems to have unique ones.  I really think a 3D print like yours is going to be the most effective way forward for these.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PostModN66 on April 01, 2016, 08:33:44 PM
Having read this thread and the Revolution Trains Website I am still not clear on what to go for to represent post 2000 intermodal trains.

Could anyone clarify which liveries would be best for EWS/DBS or GBRf container trains? 

Presumably Freightliner livery for Freightliner trains!

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on April 01, 2016, 10:28:56 PM
In terms of RTR

Dapol Megafrets, seem to be used by everyone these days.
Dapol FEA spine wagon twin sets, if you can get them
Farish IKA?, modern Intermodal twin sets, the ones with the newer branded containers such as Deanside, Geest, etc.
Plus the Revultion KFA, although mine will be used on a dedicated binliner flow.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PostModN66 on April 01, 2016, 10:37:14 PM
In terms of RTR

Dapol Megafrets, seem to be used by everyone these days.
Dapol FEA spine wagon twin sets, if you can get them
Farish IKA?, modern Intermodal twin sets, the ones with the newer branded containers such as Deanside, Geest, etc.
Plus the Revultion KFA, although mine will be used on a dedicated binliner flow.

Thanks John, but I was meaning specifically which of the PFA/KFA liveries on offer.  The Revolution trains route map shows EWS, GBRf and Freightliner flows using them.

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 01, 2016, 11:31:51 PM

Hello Jon

If you have a look at some of the excellent sites on the web like Martyn Read's ukrailwaypics SmugMug photo site you will see lots of examples. https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/

Basically, as these are wagons they don't get repainted that much.

For intermodal trains nowadays you want the versions with the VNH-1 bogies.  These were delivered with blue bogies and Tiphook branding.   Some still appear to be running like this, though the bogies are so filthy TBH it's impossible to know:

https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/K-Tops-codes/KFA-Intermodal-flats/i-cTN5z73/A

Others have had the Tiphook branding removed:

In my view any of the VNH-1 bogied versions could be seen nowadays.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PostModN66 on April 02, 2016, 07:06:07 AM
Quote from: Ben A link=topic=32486.msg374831#msg374831

For intermodal trains nowadays you want the versions with the VNH-1 bogies.  These were delivered with blue bogies and Tiphook branding.   Some still appear to be running like this, though the bogies are so filthy TBH it's impossible to know:

Thanks Ben,

Seems like I will need to load the airbrush up with "frame dirt"...

Cheers Jon  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: PostModN66 on April 02, 2016, 11:25:21 AM
...just pitched in for a three pack of Tiphook KFAs....no doubt when I get over the fiscal shock (I'm a tight Northerner) I'll pitch in for some more; I've got until June.

Oh....and a Silverlink 321 whilst I was at it :confused1:

Cheers Jon  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 25, 2016, 05:24:55 PM

Hello all,

A progress report on the PFA/KFA model.  There's more on our website for those interested.

We have now received revised CAD drawings with additional details added, including the TOPS panels and some brake parts.  We have also received the CADs for the version with VNH-1 bogies.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1540/26546624512_cdbab17616_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GrQoAC)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1490/26613527386_538b1060f7_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GxKhus)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1521/26546824912_b6f25c5491_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GrRqaN)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/26366635510_b8f05d90a4_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GaVU8Y)

The brake gear is pretty much there, though of course this is still at the design stage.  There are some very small differences between the versions with VNH-1 bogies, and those with GPS bogies, primarily around the handbrake system.  The GPS versions have handbrakewheels on the bogies, while the remainder have them on the body.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1596/26366635030_5752d95ab6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GaVTZG)

Some will notice that the twistlocks have been altered.  This was an experiment to see how the model would look if we designed it to accept Dapol containers which, unlike Farish, at least have fixing spigots in the right place, on each corner.

The Dapol spigots are 1.1mm in diameter, and we feel this makes the twistlocks so overscale it compromises the model too much, so we are going to revert to the original design.  Those who plan to use Dapol containers (including me!) can just remove the spigots and fit them with double sided tape or canopy glue.

Original drawing from prototype:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1712/26034002144_bef5581ec8_z.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FEx4PW)

Adjusted for Dapol containers:
(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1448/26546624052_8f0ef84460.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/GrQosG)

Couplers still need to be added, and we are looking at some other options to enable accurate containers to be easily mounted on our models.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: pape_timmo on April 26, 2016, 12:37:10 AM
That's some great work there guys, really look the part. I assume from your post Ben that they won't accept the Farish containers either? When I say that, I mean without the sticky tape.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: pape_timmo on April 26, 2016, 08:32:38 AM
Cancel my last, just read the Revolution page and saw the explanation... Sorry.

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Vonzack on April 26, 2016, 09:46:31 AM
If the underside of the wagon chassis is going to be metal (I think I read that somewhere), what about using magnets to keep the containers in position. The Dapol containers have working doors, so it would be fairly easy to install them. Fairly typical to do this in US Outline for your double-stacks to keep the containers on top of each other, re-usable and no mess.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 26, 2016, 09:54:38 AM

Hi Mark,

That's a great idea.  It does depend on the metal they use being ferrous, but I will certainly look into that.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Vonzack on April 26, 2016, 10:07:18 AM
Hi Ben,

Indeed, if not, it might be an option to adjust the design to allow some drop in metal plates into the plastic deck, that you definitely know would be magnetic. Suggest 3 at 20' centres (over the bogies which would be easy to disguise and maybe replace the plastic of the central cross spar with metal), so it should cover most peoples uses for the wagon.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 26, 2016, 11:37:00 AM
Hi Mark,

Adding more parts would add cost and the primary message we are receiving is that people want detail and quality, but they also want the price kept as low as possible.  This would increase the price for a feature not every customer wants.

Also, looking at the deck itself in plan view it's hard to see where they could be positioned unobtrusively:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1701/26051140703_0241648388_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/FG3Uwk)

The CAD has not yet been signed off and if there is strong demand for a "magnetic" solution we will continue to look at it and canvass views of our supporters here.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on April 26, 2016, 01:02:13 PM
Hi all,

With the magnets (freat idea) could they not slide in down the spine of the wagon? Then have then as an optional extra for those who want them to buy seperatly and fit ourselves if so wished?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Vonzack on April 26, 2016, 01:47:06 PM
Maybe there's mileage in acko22's suggestion then, but instead of inserting magnets, maybe just put some metal into the void between the spine and keep the magnets in the container. Once weathered prototypically, would be very hard to see when unloaded.

Cheers, Mark.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: ScottyStitch on April 26, 2016, 02:15:05 PM
I'd have thought the simplest solution, with the CAD so far along, would be to just ensure that the metal in the chassis is ferrous.........No re-design/modification needed, just a material change.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on April 26, 2016, 03:03:30 PM
Diecasting doesn't typically use ferrous metal so it might be a problem to do it as part of the diecast spine.

We will see what is possible.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 26, 2016, 03:27:31 PM

Hi all,

Thanks for the suggestions.  I will ask the questions but obvious issues that spring to mind:

1)  Magnets in the wagons is a no-no.  Too much of a risk of accidentally activating reed switches or other devices that customers may already have on their layouts.  And a tendency to "stick" on uncoupler magnets too.

2)  Using ferrous metal for the undefloor weight is a good idea provided it can be cast at reasonable cost and has acceptable material properties.  It would be no good, for example, if it expands and cracks the plastic deck (a problem suffered by some Hornby locos, I believe) or corrodes excessively.

3)  Adding any new parts, either at the factory or in the box for the modeller to fit, will immediately add to the cost.  People should be realistic about this.

But we will certainly look into the possibility of using ferrous metal in the wagon.

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on April 26, 2016, 04:16:32 PM
Like you Ben, I'd be happy with tape!  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on April 26, 2016, 06:13:29 PM
I'll see your tape and raise you Blu-Tac
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on April 26, 2016, 10:53:12 PM
Just be thankfull that Blu Tac is an option.

Can't get it over here.

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on April 27, 2016, 07:49:37 AM
Just be thankfull that Blu Tac is an option.

Can't get it over here.

John P

What?! At all?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Bob Tidbury on April 27, 2016, 08:33:42 AM
What about Tacky Wax from Deluxe Materials.
Bob
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on April 27, 2016, 06:19:07 PM
Actually I stand corrected, it is available from Amazon.
But it's not the common household item that it is in the UK.

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: montyburns1982 on April 29, 2016, 09:12:45 AM
Guys,

I don't know if you still need any information, but I've got a lot of photos and drawings of these wagons, as I had to carry out an inspection/assessment of 11 in France (near Orleans) in 2014. They subsequently came back to the UK and were converted at Eastleigh on behalf of the NR/SWT alliance.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: mickster04 on April 29, 2016, 10:20:31 AM
Guys,

I don't know if you still need any information, but I've got a lot of photos and drawings of these wagons, as I had to carry out an inspection/assessment of 11 in France (near Orleans) in 2014. They subsequently came back to the UK and were converted at Eastleigh on behalf of the NR/SWT alliance.

I'm sure we wouldn't mind a gander ;)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on June 06, 2016, 10:23:52 PM
Mike,

Sorry to keep banging on about this, but how can us non-EU expats order the KFA's or the 321, we're getting close to the deadline for early bird pricing, and I just looked and we still can't place orders to be shipped outside of the EU.

If it's not going to happen, then I have a back up plan as I can get them, delivered to my son who lives in Manchester. But then I'd have to pay VAT and international shipping to get them to the US. Do you think Rapido would be willing to accept orders?

Thanks,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on June 06, 2016, 11:52:47 PM
Hi John

Not solved yet - we have just spent 3 days at a show and we're trying to test the new Pendolino sample and finalise the Pendolino orders so I am afraid that is all taking priority (as well as fitting in real jobs!).

As I said elsewhere if we don't get the non-EU orders sorted in time then no one will miss out on the early bird promotion.

I'm afraid that the KFAs and 321s will only be available through us.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on June 06, 2016, 11:59:13 PM
Hi Mike,

Thanks for the quick reply. I know you guys are very busy and I don't really care when I order or pay for the models, just want to be sure I can get my hands on some  :D

Thanks,

John P

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on June 30, 2016, 02:56:08 PM
Should the early bird discount for these have still applied today? I ordered three triple packs earlier but there was no discounted price anymore.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on June 30, 2016, 02:59:21 PM
Yes, it should have - as noted on the 321 thread we had a bit of a glitch with the software.  I will make the appropriate refund to you.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on June 30, 2016, 03:05:06 PM
Wow, I wasn't expecting that! That sort of speedy and positive response to a customer query is, sadly, very rare these days. Thanks, Mike, Ben and co. and I wish you every success with this and all subsequent projects.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on June 30, 2016, 03:55:01 PM


EarlyBird Deadline Extended

We have decided to extend our EarlyBird deadlines for the N Gauge KFA wagons (and Class 320 and 321 units) by an additional month, to midnight on July 31st 2016.

The deadline was originally set at midnight tonight, but issues with the website dating system (it thought the deadline was last night!) have led to our being inundated with customers who've been unable to order at the lower price.

The problem has been rectified we believe, but to avoid any possibility of unfairness we have decided to extend the deadline.

We also need a little more time to be able to correctly process orders from outside the EU, which require a non-VAT option, and the additional time will allow us to fix this.

We are also evaluating the impact of the UK's vote to leave the EU on the sterling:dollar exchange rate.

We pay the majority of our bills in dollars and although (due to very cautious price modelling at the outset) we are able to absorb some fluctuations in the exchange rate if sterling falls further we will have to consider increasing our prices for non-Earlybird orders of the 320/321, KFA and 4mm TEA.

We would like to emphasise that any price increase will not affect orders already placed for 320/321s, KFAs or the 4mm TEAs.

The extension to the earlybird deadline will give us a bit of breathing room to see how sterling performs.

We would like to thank all our customers for their understanding and patience!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: kirky on June 30, 2016, 08:03:12 PM


EarlyBird orange small

EarlyBird Deadline Extended

We have decided to extend our EarlyBird deadlines for the N Gauge KFA wagons (and Class 320 and 321 units) by an additional month, to midnight on July 31st 2016.

The deadline was originally set at midnight tonight, but issues with the website dating system (it thought the deadline was last night!) have led to our being inundated with customers who've been unable to order at the lower price.

The problem has been rectified we believe, but to avoid any possibility of unfairness we have decided to extend the deadline.

>snip

The extension to the earlybird deadline will give us a bit of breathing room to see how sterling performs.

We would like to thank all our customers for their understanding and patience!
Huh, that kind of hard sell just isn't acceptable.  :veryangry:
I thought I was over the hurdle of temptation, but no, you go and stick another month of temptation in my way. :drool:
Not sure I like this customer centred selling. It was much better when something was announced and didn't appear...ever....

Wasn't it? :confused2:

Kirky
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: midsummerend on July 01, 2016, 12:00:40 AM
I will certainly be ordering an NSE liveried 321, but I expect at the higher price as so much coming out at the moment on my pre-order list that funds don't quite allow for the 321 (I may just be able to stretch at the end of July unless Mr Bachmann or Mr Dapol decide to release something else on the pre-order list!)

Can't wait for update pictures in due course though.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 24, 2016, 11:58:26 PM
Just ordered up my rake of KFA's before the "early bird" runs out next Sunday.

any update on matching containers? and is there a projected production date?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on July 25, 2016, 12:17:18 AM
Mike,

Sorry to keep banging on about this, but how can us non-EU expats order the KFA's or the 321, we're getting close to the deadline for early bird pricing, and I just looked and we still can't place orders to be shipped outside of the EU.

If it's not going to happen, then I have a back up plan as I can get them, delivered to my son who lives in Manchester. But then I'd have to pay VAT and international shipping to get them to the US. Do you think Rapido would be willing to accept orders?

Thanks,

John P
Hi Mike & Ben,

Just wondering if the VAT issue is sorted out on the website?

cheers
Graham
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on July 25, 2016, 12:53:39 AM

Hi there Snowwolflair,

The CADs have now been approved and we are waiting for tooling to begin.  Once that starts on past experience we should have test shots to examine in about 6-8 weeks.  Beyond that it is difficult to give a schedule - and what we have learned with the TEAs and the Pendolinos is that even when things are going relatively smoothly individual stages of production always seem to take a bit longer than you expect!

We are still looking at possible container options...

I will leave Mike to answer the question about VAT...

cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on July 25, 2016, 12:57:44 AM

Hi there Snowwolflair,

The CADs have now been approved and we are waiting for tooling to begin.  Once that starts on past experience we should have test shots to examine in about 6-8 weeks.  Beyond that it is difficult to give a schedule - and what we have learned with the TEAs and the Pendolinos is that even when things are going relatively smoothly individual stages of production always seem to take a bit longer than you expect!

We are still looking at possible container options...

I will leave Mike to answer the question about VAT...

cheers

Ben A.

Thanks any recommendations on commercial containers or are they all going to suitable, subject to modifying their attachment method.

The chassis are going to be die-cast, will it be a magnetic metal?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on July 26, 2016, 12:01:59 AM

Hi there Snowwolflair,

The CADs have now been approved and we are waiting for tooling to begin.  Once that starts on past experience we should have test shots to examine in about 6-8 weeks.  Beyond that it is difficult to give a schedule - and what we have learned with the TEAs and the Pendolinos is that even when things are going relatively smoothly individual stages of production always seem to take a bit longer than you expect!

We are still looking at possible container options...

I will leave Mike to answer the question about VAT...

cheers

Ben A.



Hi Guys,
Any chance of an answer on the VAT status, happy to use the same method as used for the TEA's. Sorry to keep bugging, but want to get them ordered before starting my travels this weekend.
Looking forward to meeting yourselves and others at TINGS.
cheers
Graham
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on August 02, 2016, 11:19:39 AM
Placed order this evening, however still appears to be charging VAT to us non Europeans. Just happy to get the order in. Sure the guys will get it sorted.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: mickster04 on August 02, 2016, 11:26:55 AM
Its slightly confusing because the prices are pre-vat. Which would get added at the end. Mike just clarified this to me for my order. Non eu orders won't get vat added, eu orders will. Which I'm assuming anyone that side of the pond can verify
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on August 02, 2016, 11:29:33 AM
Mike also clarified for me. Thanks Mickster.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on August 02, 2016, 01:18:23 PM
I think for all customers regardless of where you live it shows the including VAT price in the shop.

When you add things to your basket and then look at your basket all the prices (again regardless of where you live) are displayed excluding VAT but below the subtotal will be a VAT amount.

You then have 2 choices:
- click on calculate shipping which if you pick outside the EU will remove the VAT (and calculate the shipping); or
- click on proceed to checkout which asks you to confirm your shipping details and if you hadn't calculated the shipping and removed the VAT already it will then remove the VAT.

Either way the end result is the same - if you are outside the EU you can now place orders and you won't get charged VAT (you can tell because the final invoice you receive will not have a VAT line above the total).

Apologies to all that it has taken so long to solve the VAT issue.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on August 02, 2016, 05:04:58 PM
Time to get the credit card out  :D

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on August 02, 2016, 05:19:32 PM
Just ordered 12 KFA's and a 321. Time to put the credit card away again!!

Thanks,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Stuart7358 on September 18, 2016, 08:48:43 AM
Hello all

Wondering if there is anyone who can answer some very basic questions about the PFA/KFA MoD traffic which has been mentioned briefly in this thread.

What size containers would they carry for this?
Would the containers be unbranded?
Would I be right in thinking they would be moved in mixed trains with warflats etc as well as in block Mod container trains?

Apologies for such basic questions, but better to ask than not know before I look at buying a few.

Thanks

Stuart

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on September 18, 2016, 09:15:25 AM
Hi Stuart,

In an era of block trains all carrying the same good, MOD trains can be interesting and diverse.

They do seem to be formed somewhat randomly, and based around whatever needs to be moved at the time, and whatever wagons are to hand!

If you search Flickr for Marchwood Didcot you'll get a fair few examples.

When the containers are used for the carriage of munitions, they are usually on their own, with barrier wagons at either end.

The barrier wagons can just be other flats with empty containers, or open wagons like OCAs, or sometimes they will use Warflats or Warwells that may need repositioning:

https://flic.kr/p/6R6VEY

They are certainly used in trains where vehicles are being shipped too; though I don't know whether munitions can be shipped like this, or just stores:

https://flic.kr/p/h2wMGx

https://flic.kr/p/9Phx2X

The containers seem to be predominantly red or red-oxide and are either the specific side-loading MOD containers (available as a kit from C-Rail) or second hand shipping containers, usually with the logos roughly painted out.  And the MOD seems to prefer 20' not 40' containers. 

Stores and a single KFA being shunted:

https://flic.kr/p/aAyjyC

Or sometimes it seems it's the KFA that needs repositioning - here is an empty at the head of a long mixed MOD train.

https://flic.kr/p/aMo8QH

TBH these trains are so mixed I don't think anyone would be able to definitely say your version is wrong!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Stuart7358 on September 18, 2016, 10:12:52 AM
Many thanks for that Ben A, your time and effort in answering my questions is much appreciated as is the links to the photos showing some very interesting formations.

Better think about getting some ordered very  soon.

Stuart
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on September 18, 2016, 12:21:13 PM
Hi all,

Just though i would  to add to more to what Ben has already explained so well as I have had plenty of dealing with this kind of stuff in work over the years:

Ammunition trains as Ben rightly points out these always have barrier wagons and is a case of what ever is lying about or need repostioning.
But if you are thinking of doing an ammo train an intersting point to note after an incident a few years ago (Warrington Dallum where some idiots broke into a train and stole some anti tank mines  :goggleeyes: ) these trains are not allowed to stop unless:

a) At an MOD agreed and authorised location.
b) If for any reason the train does have to stop at an unsheduled location there has to be a police presence asap to secure the train so no one can help themselves.
c) One which a family member who works for DB Cargo has clarified to me is in the event of a one under (Suicide) some of these flows are under instruction to report and carry on to the nearest authorised location without stopping and these are given prioity over other traffic much like the royal train if this happens.

a) If you are doing a vehicle movement with loaded Warflats / Warwells the Containers on a KFA will NEVER be carrying the ammunition on the same train if anything did happen it would be like giving someone the gun and the bullets.
b) They will either be carrying associated equipment or for some of the vehicles we use they are carried inside the containers for security as they cant be locked down (think open tops vehicles)
c) The KFAs as a rule fo thumb will always be at one end of the train to allow for the vehicles on the Warwell / Warflat to be on and of loaded with ease since most railheads the Military use arent as substantial as they use to be.

The actual iso containters agains Ben points out are 90% 20ft iso containers the reason behind this is that in the forces the DROPS vehicles used by the RLC are designed around the 20ft container to make it easier and faster to transport across country (and still can be hard then) these are the lower one not the mega box containters again as its all about transporting in a warzone. However there megabox containers and 40ft containers can still be found as the MOD does buy secondhand for transportation if / as / when required.
Also to add into the mix depending on the area you can get the MOD green ISO containers are part of equipment (cant divulge anymore) but I know from marchwood after we withdrew from Iraq they were common to be on these services)

As Ben says these flows are random in make up but if anyone has a rough idea of the flow they want to do then I would be more than happy to give you an idea of what it would consist of to go you your KFAs, on that note if you do want some info please PM me and i will let you know as not to take up the thread
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Arrachogaidh on September 22, 2016, 05:23:33 PM
My Shapeways RHTT is desperately awaiting the production of the KFA wagons.

Not long now I hope.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on September 22, 2016, 05:37:45 PM

Hi Arrachogaidh,

These wagons were announced in April at the York show, so have been under development for 5 months. 

The CADs have been finalised and the model is in tooling; we had hoped to have first samples for TINGS but unfortunately they were not quite ready, but we are confident they will be on display for supporters to see at Warley.

We would hope to have painted approval samples soon after, and then we will close the order book ready to start production.

Having (nearly) delivered the TEAs and with the Pendo making good progress we are planning to announce another modern wagon at Warley too.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on September 22, 2016, 07:14:11 PM
Another modern wagon?! Dammit Ben, you need to stop this!

Some of the ARC/Hanson JHAs or the STVA car carriers would be good though ;)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on September 22, 2016, 07:34:35 PM
Ha! We have a list as long as your arm of wagons we'd like to do!

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on September 23, 2016, 08:32:27 AM
at this rate I will have to come out of retirement.

looking forward to seeing whats next.
Cheers Graham
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: VoyagerBen on October 23, 2016, 08:05:13 PM
That's some great work there guys, really look the part. I assume from your post Ben that they won't accept the Farish containers either? When I say that, I mean without the sticky tape.

Cheers, Timmo

Hi, now that the CAD has been approved and tooling underway, what was the final verdict with compatibility of the PKA/KFAs with Farish containers?

Many thanks,
Ben.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Steven B on October 23, 2016, 09:41:59 PM
The MOD use ISO containers for mobile workshops, offices, kitchens etc. Take a look on some of the military surplus websites for some ideas.

Happy modelling.

Steven B
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on October 23, 2016, 11:03:34 PM
The MOD use ISO containers for mobile workshops, offices, kitchens etc. Take a look on some of the military surplus websites for some ideas.

Happy modelling.

Steven B

 :thankyousign:
Thanks @Steven B (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3063) for the tip. By the time my KFAs arrive, I'll have bashed together a few Membrane Bioreactor Containers ready for them to move!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on October 23, 2016, 11:09:50 PM
I need to do some bashing too, 30ft freightliner flats for aluminium ingots
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on October 24, 2016, 09:25:47 AM

Hi Ben,

In theory, all containers should fit these wagons because the prototypes they are all based on are designed to work together - as long as they are all correctly to scale!

I think the pegs on Dapol containers will be too chunky to fit into the relatively fine holes on our models, though I think Farish will probbaly be OK.

Once we get the first mouldings we will check Dapol & Farish containers and see how they fit, and whether any mods are needed.  If there are we will be sure to post that information here, and in the worst case scenario it will just involve removing horribly overscale spigots anyway!

If we get moulded samples by Warley (where we are sharing a stand with Rapido) I will bring some containers too and people can see any issues for themselves.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on November 04, 2016, 07:06:30 PM
Forgive me if I'm being a bit dim but can someone confirm that this project is definitely going ahead? I assume it is as there is mention of CADs being signed off and that tooling has started. But I couldn't find any mention in this thread of the requisite number of orders being reached.
Given that the class B 35t tank project is not doing as well as hoped, I am looking at making an altruistic order for some of them to help get it towards the finish line, but I just want to make sure that those funds are not going to be needed to get the PFA/KFA into reality instead.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on November 04, 2016, 08:03:27 PM

Hi WE,

Yes, apologies if things have not been clear. 

These wagons reached the threshold we needed very quickly, and have been in development accordingly with first moulded samples due, we hope, in time for Warley.

As an aside, it's the speed with which these and the earlier TEA tankers reached the minimum that has left us somewhat perplexed by the Class B tankers!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on November 04, 2016, 08:39:56 PM
Thanks for clearing that up Ben; that's good to know. I am full of admiration and gratitude for what you two are doing and seeing the recent images of the TEAs has only increased the anticipation for the container flats I've ordered.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Stuart7358 on November 05, 2016, 06:33:52 AM
Thanks for the update on where things are, I must admit I was wondering if the PFA/KFA project was going ahead.

Stuart
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on November 20, 2016, 10:12:09 AM

Hello all,

Just to confirm that the KFA project is well underway, here is a link to a You Tube video Rapido have sent us this morning showing work on the tooling.

https://youtu.be/PCdgBraVJtQ

We had hoped to have samples by a the Warley National Model Railway show at the NEC next weekend, but it seems that is looking unlikely now as the mouldings probably won't be with us until December.

We should have samples of the 40' hi-cube containers that are being produced for us by C-Rail though.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on December 29, 2016, 07:21:04 PM

Hello all,

Rapido have sent us some images of the first sample mouldings of the upcoming KFA container flat.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/46/94-291216191826.jpeg)

We should be receiving running samples to test as soon as they can test-assemble these parts and send them to us.

For more images and information see the news page of our website.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on December 29, 2016, 08:06:24 PM
Looking good and damn if my credit card limit doesn't increase on 1st Jan! Simultaneously  :bounce: and :worried:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Rowlie on December 30, 2016, 09:58:03 AM
Wow, Not sure I will want to run them with containers.  Looking forward to the assembled samples.  Excellent work Ben, Mike and Rapido 😀
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: rusticged on January 02, 2017, 10:59:19 AM
 :claphappy:
Well Done, Mike, Ben and Rapido. Another feather in your caps!
might we see a production sample in Glasgow?
All the Best for 2017.
Cheers,
Ged
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on January 02, 2017, 12:08:28 PM
Wow, Not sure I will want to run them with containers.  Looking forward to the assembled samples.  Excellent work Ben, Mike and Rapido 😀

Good point, Im going to be looking at making the Freightliner flats for Aluminium ingots
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on January 02, 2017, 12:47:10 PM
Looking good and damn if my credit card limit doesn't increase on 1st Jan! ...

I've managed to resist the temptation to further increase my (already once increased from 3 wagons to 6) order.  :angel:

Four wagons are destined for MOD trips, so there'll be plenty of scope for prototypical near/empty wagons exposing all that lovely detail.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Kaian on January 02, 2017, 04:32:31 PM
I already know I am too weak to not increase from my 6, I just hope I can hold out for the sake of my overdraft till the closing orders announcement.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on January 02, 2017, 07:51:51 PM

Hello Ged,

Yes, we are optimistic we will have samples of each type for the Glasgow show now we have seen mouldings.

They probably won't be painted though.  The liveries on these models are fairly straightforward compared to the TEAs - bogies either blue, black or yellow, bodies either blue or black and just some small marking in white or yellow - so it should not be too long between EP samples and production.

Naturally we will give everyone a heads up when the order deadline is approaching.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on January 06, 2017, 11:44:14 PM

....and now Rapido have received the assembled samples to inspect and test, before they send them to us so we can do the same.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/94-060117234341.jpeg)

For more information see our website:

http://www.revolutiontrains.com/kfas-coming-together/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/kfas-coming-together/)

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on January 06, 2017, 11:52:36 PM
They look good.

Well done Revolution and Rapido

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: rusticged on January 07, 2017, 08:28:19 AM
 :thumbsup:

Amazing detail Ben
They look very impressive!
Thanks for the photos.
Cheers,
Ged
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Buzzard on January 07, 2017, 09:01:44 AM
 :jawdropping:

Glad I've ordered some.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on January 07, 2017, 10:05:54 AM
:jawdropping:

Glad I've ordered some.

It's not too late to order some more  ;)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Rowlie on January 08, 2017, 10:28:37 AM
The assembled examples are great, have you had a chance to test them yet?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on January 22, 2017, 12:27:45 AM

Hello all,

We received the first samples of the forthcoming PFA/KFA intermodal flats from Rapido in the week.

They look as good as they did in the photographs we were sent from Canada, and the 40' hi-cube containers we are producing with C-Rail, and 20' containers manufactured by Farish, are a perfect fit. (Farish 40' containers do not have corner mounting pins, while Dapol pins are very overscale and would need to be trimmed.)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/47/94-220117002719.jpeg)

For more information and a short video, see the news item on our website here:

http://www.revolutiontrains.com/kfa-samples-received-testing/ (http://www.revolutiontrains.com/kfa-samples-received-testing/)

We still need to finalise the livery diagrams, though these wagons are all either blue or black, with blue, black or yellow bogies. Markings are relatively basic - just TOPS panels, warning marks in white and some have Tiphook or Freightliner branding.

The order book will be staying open a few more weeks until we are ready to authorise them for production, and the factory has the capacity to start.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Rowlie on January 22, 2017, 07:35:59 PM
Hi Ben,
They certainly look the part and run smoothly.  Out of interest what did you use to fit the containers?
Thanks
Rowlie
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: pape_timmo on January 22, 2017, 07:46:57 PM
These look very impressive, I must find some funds....😱

Cheers, Timmo
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on January 23, 2017, 12:11:48 AM

Hi Rowlie,

The containers in the video are our own C-Rail 40' hi-cube and standard height 20' containers from Farish.

They all have small pegs on each corner, and these are a good interference fit so once positioned they stay in place.

The Farish containers do have larger pegs (for fitting to the old Farish freightliner flats) at the 1/3 and 2/3 position along each side - these need to be removed (or the floor of the container removed) first.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: JasonBz on January 23, 2017, 12:22:57 AM
These really are (like most Revolution stuff!) fine models!
Totally out of period and place for me, but marvellous none the less :)

There is something about a (full size) train of containers that appeals to the really basic "oh! lots of pretty colours and different shapes!" aspect of my head......kinda like the modern version of the PO coal wagon of yesterday!!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on February 02, 2017, 12:27:00 PM
Hi

Apologise if this has been asked before but I am in the now annual process of allocating modelling funds and it occurs to me how nice these would look behind a 92....

So, my question is which of the 6 offered versions would be best for my 1994 onwards timeframe (i.e BR to early private) so I could run them with tripple grey and vinyl beasty 92s? 

I have read that the bogies on the early wagons were not approved for the Chunnel so I think I would want version 4 or 5?

Thanks in advance

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on February 02, 2017, 12:36:10 PM
...so I think I would want version 4 or 5?

Thanks in advance

Skyline2uk

Yes - for the use you mention those would be the ones to go for.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: mickd247 on October 10, 2017, 09:17:35 AM
Hi Ben @Ben A (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94)

Any update on the production of these?  Have seen your news item on your web site from July concerning adding additional weight but no word on here since the beginning of the year.  Quite surprised as this model is basically a chassis and yet the order book has still not closed, despite the indication given on this forum that you had reached the required quantities to produce quite quickly after it being announced.

It seems very odd for a crowd funded model considering all the posts on the B class Tanks which were proposed six months later than this model, and according to the various posts on this forum were struggling to reach the threshold, and yet now painted samples have been received and approved and a closing date of the end this month has been set.

Wait to hear from you.

 :beers:

Mick
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on October 10, 2017, 11:01:03 AM
Hi Mick

There is no mystery with the KFAs vs the Class B tanks.  As you noted, we were not happy with the weight of the KFAs so we made some tooling changes and we are waiting for the revised samples (probably Warley). Once approved (if the new samples are OK) then we will have to wait for a production slot and it will depend very much on whether the factory can get them done before Chinese New Year.

The Class B tanks didn't require any tooling revisions (and are coming from a completely different factory) so have progressed comparatively more quickly.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on October 10, 2017, 06:54:06 PM

Hi Mick,

Further to what Mike said, we are both still on something of a learning curve here, but one thing I have discovered is that if the models are "right first time" - like the TEAs and the Class Bs - then they move quickly from unpainted test model, to painted sample, to production.

But.... if there are issues with the initial sample models, as there were with the Pendolino (couplers) and the KFA (weight), then a process of discussion, head-scratching, modification and re-design has to take place and this can significantly slow things down.

I am not sure there is an easy solution to this.  Ideally the CADs will be spot on and the factory will get the "working parts" right first time  but if we do have concerns about an aspect of the model we feel it's better to address these - even if the model is overtaken by others proposed later - than "make do" with something less than ideal.

But thanks for asking the question - if nothing else it's prompted a useful update to this thread!

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: kirky on October 12, 2017, 07:33:56 PM
I for one am pleased that Revolution are taking their time over models like the KFA. If it looks good but won’t run because it’s too light it will still be a useless bit of rolling stock. It is a credit to Mike and Ben that they are taking so much time in getting these models right.
Cheers
Kirky
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on October 12, 2017, 08:55:57 PM
Absolutely,

The Dapol Megafrets are beautiful wagons, but getting a reasonable length rake to run round relatively tight curves is a nightmare.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on October 12, 2017, 11:05:51 PM
Agreed, weighting the containers of the Megafrets helps, but then you can’t see the detail. I believe the OO ones are metal, which would help no end.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on October 13, 2017, 09:47:06 AM

Hi all,

(Apologies for thread drift)

The Dapol megafrets are lovely and very useful, but they are on the light side.

I have found there is some space under them to allow for the judicious addition of some extra weight.

I use strips of self adhesive "lead" sold in DIY stores for adding lead frames to windows. 

The adhesive on them is not that strong, so once you've positioned them where you want them I lock in with some cyano.


Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on October 13, 2017, 11:29:34 AM
Interesting thought, I've also got a roll of that, so I may experiment, always feels a shame to cover up the detail.

Apologies for continuing the thread derailment. I look forward to not having to add extra weight to the KFAs!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Kelvin White on January 23, 2018, 05:34:10 PM
Bringing the conversation back to PFA / KPAs 😊

For current day operations (OK last 10 years).
What would be the most appropriate livery (from those offered) for MOD / miliatary containers and binliners (Calvert).

Thanks
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Smiffy on March 18, 2018, 09:58:13 PM
Hi,

Has the order deadline been announced?

I’m pondering ordering some more and wondered if I have time to raid the piggy bank.

Best regards

Iain
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on March 18, 2018, 10:17:05 PM
Hi Iain

Not yet - they are due to go into production late May is our best guess at the moment (I can't see it being any earlier).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on March 31, 2018, 01:01:19 PM
Anyone know how long these will be? Doesn’t need to be to the nearest 0.1mm, I’m just after a ballpark to give me an idea how many I need (want?like? No need haha). I’m guessing about 15cm? Just wish I hadn’t missed out on the containers going to have to source them from elsewhere.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: CaleyDave on March 31, 2018, 01:33:57 PM
Anyone know how long these will be? Doesn’t need to be to the nearest 0.1mm, I’m just after a ballpark to give me an idea how many I need (want?like? No need haha). I’m guessing about 15cm? Just wish I hadn’t missed out on the containers going to have to source them from elsewhere.

The containers were a joint venture between revolution and c=rail who still have them in stock
http://www.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=18_62 (http://www.c-rail-intermodal.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=18_62)
 :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on March 31, 2018, 09:11:24 PM
Even un decorated ones so you can do your own thing.

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on April 01, 2018, 09:22:00 AM
thanks for the container heads up. how many of the 40ft containers for on each of the tiphook wagons ? and anyone got a guess how long a tiphook wagon will be in n gauge ?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on April 01, 2018, 09:27:58 AM
About 14cm I’d say.

They have 60’ of loading deck, so you can have up to three 20’ containers, one 40’ and one 20’ or one 45’.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 01, 2018, 01:14:57 PM

Hello all,

Hope this photo taken at the York show today helps.  The deck is around 14cm long, with a bit each extra end for couplers/buffers etc.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/63/94-010418131218-63663732.jpeg)

The order book for these wagons is expected to close next month.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on April 01, 2018, 01:31:19 PM
thanks njee, great info.

bigger thanks ben the photo is great help and a great pic of your range.
the downside, onto of my pendolino on its way (should of ordered a 2nd), my 29 tank wagons looks like its another bill of 200 or so for kfa wagons, plus 300 for cargo wagons.

and then theres the hoppers..... I do hope there all being posted in plain boxes and not " heres your fantastic railway gear fro m revolution trains" branded packages or im gonna get shot...
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Buzzard on April 01, 2018, 01:56:33 PM
They have 60’ of loading deck, so you can have up to three 20’ containers, one 40’ and one 20’ or one 45’.

I don't think that one 45' box is correct as the KFA doesn't have locking mechanisms for that length.

If they can then Revolution have got the KFA wrong as the appropriate locks are not visible in the picture that Ben has just posted.

Another possibility with a 60' deck is two 30' containers.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 01, 2018, 03:44:59 PM
I don't think that one 45' box is correct as the KFA doesn't have locking mechanisms for that length.

If they can then Revolution have got the KFA wrong as the appropriate locks are not visible in the picture that Ben has just posted.

Hi all,

Most KFAs only have mounting positions at the 20', 30' and 40' positions.  I have seen the occasional ones with additional fixing points added at different spacings, but I have not seen 45' containers on KFAs.

With the 40' hi-cube container becoming by some margin the most commonplace type, and more common than 20's, newer wagons such as the VTG Eco-fret are built with 40' decks as these offer a more efficient use of space.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on April 01, 2018, 04:46:49 PM
Must admit I wasnt totally sure about the 45s when I wrote that. I stand corrected, said the man in orthopaedic shoes.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on April 03, 2018, 10:38:08 PM
For typical container traffic, did these run as full, all the same wagon, rakes or were they mixed with various other container flats.

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 03, 2018, 11:44:38 PM
For typical container traffic, did these run as full, all the same wagon, rakes or were they mixed with various other container flats.

Ron

Hello Ron,

It depends what you mean by "typical" container traffic, and what era.

If you mean intermodal traffic, when introduced in the late 1980s they would run either on their own or with original style Freightliner flats (FFA/FGA) and then from then early 90s mixed with the newer style FSA/FTA sets.

Nowadays Freightliner trains can be a mix of KFAs, FEA-Bs, Mega-frets, pocket wagons (all now or soon available RTR) plus Lowliners, FSA/FTAs and Eco-frets.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Steven B on April 04, 2018, 01:16:53 PM
In Freightliner use they were typically used when more wagons were needed on a train, but not enought to need a full 5-wagon FFA/FGA set.

They were also common on refuse trains (aka Binliners) and MoD trains (MoD side door containers available from C=Rail). In these uses the train would be unlikely to contain other container wagons.

They were also used in small numbers (two or three per train) to carry paper and aluminium on the West Highland line on Speedlink trains.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: G_N_E_R on April 06, 2018, 08:23:38 PM
hello all,
before I commit to a triple pack; has anyone got a link to the original page about what livery was used when and where? I remember seeing one about half a year ago but didn't find it on the revolution website. (Technology and I have an ongoing feud, maybe its my incompetence!)
If not, which livery did I see on the ECML behind FL57s between Spine wagons and Intermodals? I seem to remember them being a freightliner greenish colour but my memory isn't the best.
Thank you, regards,
Philip
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Buzzard on April 06, 2018, 09:09:11 PM
has anyone got a link to the original page about what livery was used when and where? I remember seeing one about half a year ago but didn't find it on the revolution website.

Try this.

https://www.revolutiontrains.com/tiphook-pfakfa-container-flat/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/tiphook-pfakfa-container-flat/)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: G_N_E_R on April 06, 2018, 09:14:03 PM
has anyone got a link to the original page about what livery was used when and where? I remember seeing one about half a year ago but didn't find it on the revolution website.

Try this.

https://www.revolutiontrains.com/tiphook-pfakfa-container-flat/ (https://www.revolutiontrains.com/tiphook-pfakfa-container-flat/)

T H A N K   Y O U :P
Regards,
Philip
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on April 07, 2018, 11:00:28 AM
Thanks guys for questions answered in previous post.

Era is last ten years till now.

Already got some freightliner ones on order.

Re the Network Rail version, I can only find there use in RHTT duties.

What other engineering duties did they perform without having to modify them.

Ron

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on April 14, 2018, 09:16:30 AM
Been searching and can't find any decent info/pics showing these on engineering
duties.
Was one that had handrails added with some equipt on top. Possibly generators.
Colas ones as part of a crane rake.

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Vonzack on April 14, 2018, 11:49:39 AM
Have you visited this page, always a good resource - https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/K-Tops-codes/KFA-Intermodal-flats/
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: woodbury22uk on April 14, 2018, 12:09:34 PM
Have you visited this page, always a good resource - https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/K-Tops-codes/KFA-Intermodal-flats/

The overhead line wiring train looks a good one to model if you are a masochist.

https://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/K-Tops-codes/KFA-Intermodal-flats/i-P4cQXDg/A
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on April 15, 2018, 11:35:20 AM
Thanks guys for reference site.

Plenty of ideas for my previously ordered Freightliner ones.

Yes Woodbury you would have to be brave to take those cable versions on.

But would be different.

Thinking maybe a few c rail 20 foot containers kits sprayed network rail yellow

carrying equipt to site.

Cheers Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 17, 2018, 02:56:42 PM
Re the Network Rail version, I can only find there use in RHTT duties.

What other engineering duties did they perform without having to modify them.

Ron

Hello Ron,

I don't have a comprehensive answer but if you go to flickr and search "Network Rail KFA" you'll find various shots including this one:

https://flic.kr/p/MsB2SL

Though I would say that 95% of the use of these wagons was in the RHTT trains, of which there are very nice 3D printed/photo etched kits available via this forum.

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on April 17, 2018, 04:20:06 PM

Hello all,

My attention has just been drawn to this:

www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/high-output-concrete-train-supports-electrification.html (http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/high-output-concrete-train-supports-electrification.html)
 
Could be fun for anyone up for a bit of scratch building, or 3D printing...

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Arrachogaidh on April 17, 2018, 07:34:34 PM
Another shot!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/8192042135 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/8192042135)

https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/8193129834/in/photostream/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/15038/8193129834/in/photostream/)

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on April 17, 2018, 08:30:45 PM
Thanks guys for info.

Think I'll invest in a triple set. Good future proof project.

Can't imagine the Network Rail ones will be to common.

Will all the different liveries be going ahead as advertised.

Ron

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on April 25, 2018, 04:16:45 PM

Hello all,

My attention has just been drawn to this:

[url=http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/high-output-concrete-train-supports-electrification.html]www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/high-output-concrete-train-supports-electrification.html[/url] ([url]http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/infrastructure/single-view/view/high-output-concrete-train-supports-electrification.html[/url])
 
Could be fun for anyone up for a bit of scratch building, or 3D printing...

Cheers

Ben A.


Does anyone know of a drawing for this?

Topped and tailed with a couple of MPV's this would make a nice little feature train.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 26, 2018, 01:21:08 AM
It's gone a bit quiet here so I thought I would throw in a bit of stimulation.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/3761-250618233707.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66979)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/3761-250618233754.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66980)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on June 26, 2018, 09:07:09 AM
I spotted this post from Ben A in the Class B tanker thread:

“Hi Ged

Re the HOAs (and with apologies for thread drift) but the CADs have been complete for some time; we have just been waiting to finalise tooling and production costs with Rapido.
To be fair, we haven't really pushed them as we felt that with the IZA and KFA order books closing last month, and later this month, respectively then our customers might appreciate a breather!
We expect to open the HOA order book in the next few weeks and get tooling started once enough orders are in, not least because I am really looking forward to these ones too!

cheers

Ben A.”

It seems to imply that the order book for the KFA/PFA wagons will close at the end of this month (Saturday) but I’ve seen no mention of this here, on RMweb or Revolution's website. Could Ben confirm that is the case, or was it a slip of the keyboard?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on June 26, 2018, 09:12:06 AM

Hello all,

If you're signed up to receive our newsletters you'll get a notification of when the KFA order book is going to close.  We usually try to give a fortnight's notice.

The KFA order book will close as soon as Rapido tell us they are ready to start - I think this will be when they have finished the 00 TEA tankers.

I doubt it will be the end of this month now, but I can't say for sure.

TBH if you want KFAs then I'd put an order in now, as it is going to be fairly soon either way.  Or, if you miss the deadline, I suspect there will be models available from retailers as with the Class Bs, but at a higher price.

Cheers

Ben A.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on June 26, 2018, 09:18:35 AM
Many thanks for the rapid(o) reply, Ben. I do get your newsletters too so was surprised to see your comment in the Class B tank thread quoted above.
Never mind your customers needing a breather, I expect you two are well overdue a break from all this yourselves.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 26, 2018, 09:18:56 AM
I'm not sure about when the order book will close, I suspect when the B's are shipped, and giving Ben and Mike a breather between the IZA's and KFA's at the other end of the process.

Regardless this print is for the HOCT (High Output Concrete Train) and will be designed to sit on the Black Network Rail KFA.  Its a universal self contained engineering wagon either loco or MPV hauled and is used to fast mix concrete for line side foundation work.  Its a definite layout curiosity particularly for modern image layouts.

I'm planning to add it to my electrification train in Balfour Beattie colors along with a Kirow crane from Modern Image Models and some flat wagons carrying overhead gantries ready for assembly.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/66/3761-260618092007.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=66981)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 27, 2018, 01:16:18 AM
Hot from the CAD.  Still a few mods to do.

I'm planning to put this on Shapeways and offer an etch for the railings etc.


(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-270618011422.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67009)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 28, 2018, 09:38:15 AM
Ready for a first test print. 

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/3761-280618093114.png) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=67032)

and time for it to have its own thread

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41792.msg515356#msg515356 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41792.msg515356#msg515356)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: mickd247 on June 28, 2018, 10:28:16 AM
This will make a very interesting model, will probably have to buy one when available. As the KFA is not actually in production yet what wagon have you used as the basis for your dimensions?


 :beers:

Mick
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on June 28, 2018, 10:50:30 AM
This will make a very interesting model, will probably have to buy one when available. As the KFA is not actually in production yet what wagon have you used as the basis for your dimensions?


 :beers:

Mick


Funny you ask that, i'm waiting for Ben to get back to me on that. 

However the unit sits on three 20ft container sized platforms so it is currently within 0.5mm of correct and can be adjusted before completion.  There is also a Shapeways print of a KFA, but its not of the quality anticipated from the Revolution RTR, that I will make it compatible with at a later stage.


I have started a new thread for this model can posts specifically about the HOCT be added there in fairness to Ben and Mike.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41792.msg515356#msg515356 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41792.msg515356#msg515356)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on July 17, 2018, 09:17:37 AM
New to this crowdfunding.

I've placed an order for some, all moneys have been paid. What happens now? Does anyone know an expected manufacture/delivery date? I got the impression that the order book will close soon so should not be too far off.

By the way I did not get a confirmation email but the order is showing processed on the system.

Thanks
Paul
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on July 17, 2018, 09:20:05 AM
Yep, exactly that. At some point we'll be advised of the order book closing, which will coincide with production commencing, then a bit later you get an awesome model. As you say, the PFA/KFAs and the 92 are the next models to go to production.

If you see Ben's post above they're just waiting for confirmation from Rapido they're ready to start, likely once the OO gauge TEAs are out of the way.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on July 17, 2018, 01:34:01 PM

Hello all,

Yes, just to confirm the factory making the 00 TEAs will move straight onto the KFAs.  Then most recent photos show the 4mm tankers are in the final stages of tampo printing, so hopefully that won't be too long now.

The 92 is being made in Rapido's other factory (the one that made the Pendolinos) and I think they just have a north american project to wrap up before they start on it. 

I had expected the 92 order book to be closing at the end of this month, but it's up to Rapido.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: dmck123 on September 11, 2018, 06:59:55 PM

Is there anyone out there knowledgeable enough to tell me which of the 6 liveries would have run on the wcml 1995-1999? My model making bank has just about recovered from being stretched to try and get as many 321s as I could realistically afford and I am hoping to sneak in and get a rake ordered in the next day or two before the order book closes.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. All the pictures I have seen of them running in the late 90s just show a shade of rust and brown (which did make me wonder if it really mattered much anyway :) ).
 Many thanks
Dave
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on September 11, 2018, 07:31:01 PM
Hi @dmck123 (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5749) , if it’s any help, I have ordered 3 from “Version 5” (Tiphook Blue with Black Bogies) on the basis that I was advised, earlier on this thread, that they could be run with Triple Grey or Triple Grey with Beasties 92s.

This should cover the timeframe you mention.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: dmck123 on September 12, 2018, 02:29:03 PM
Thanks for that. It sounds like it should fit with the time period I am modelling, the 92s were mainly towed up the WCML in tripple Grey during the late 90s (I believe something to do with the OHL power supply of the WCML). 
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: SteveB1510 on September 13, 2018, 12:28:07 PM
In a similar theme to the above question, can anyone ID the container flats in the above pic?
https://flic.kr/p/WmPyTT

Are they (Version 5) KFAs, or something else?

In addition to the Freightliner rake I’ve already got on order, I’m now tempted to maybe some Hoyer tanktainers too to mix in a typical EWS/DBS wagonload service like this, but not sure if the KFAs would be appropriate for this, or if I’d be better sticking them on some Graham Farish intermodal twin wagons?

Thanks, Steve
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on September 13, 2018, 12:43:20 PM
Sorry I don't know what the container flats on StevenB1510's picture - I searched on the headcode but that headcode covers a lot of varied wagon workings!

On a different note I was reading the Rail Express Formations bookazine last night and noticed that the Tiphook blue KFA with yellow GPS bogies appears a lot on MoD workings! Not something I'd particularly noticed before.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: SteveB1510 on September 13, 2018, 01:24:28 PM
Sorry I don't know what the container flats on StevenB1510's picture - I searched on the headcode but that headcode covers a lot of varied wagon workings!

On a different note I was reading the Rail Express Formations bookazine last night and noticed that the Tiphook blue KFA with yellow GPS bogies appears a lot on MoD workings! Not something I'd particularly noticed before.

Cheers, Mike

No problem Mike, thanks for the reply.  The workings in question ran (usually overnight, so not many photos about on Flickr etc) between Mossend, Carlisle & Warrington as 6M76 and 6X52, although some of the traffic (cars etc) would have come from further afield.  Some of these flats also appeared on the 6X65 car service to Mossend (alongside IPAs amongst others) on occasion.  My suspicion is that they may be some kind of twin wagons rather than KFAs as they seem to be an even number of them, suggesting they’re running in pairs.  I’ve put another pic and a couple of videos below to see if they might help anymore in IDing the flat wagons?

https://flic.kr/p/kWRmHV
https://youtu.be/oe5gsfbr0WQ
https://youtu.be/KexeOLEy55o

Thanks, Steve
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on September 13, 2018, 01:36:39 PM
Hi Steve

Looking at the first video, the wagons just behind the 66 look to me to be of the spine variety (possibly of the type offered by Dapol), they don’t have the floor plan of the PFA/KFAs.

The car wagons look to be the IPAs proposed by Revolution though?

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on September 13, 2018, 02:22:38 PM
My suspicion is that on some of the photos they are Megafrets (as made by Dapol) rather than Multifrets (FIA/IFA as made by Farish). DB certainly used/use both their own Megafrets (which are different to the Dapol model) and those hired in from what was AAE (now part of VTG IIRC).

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on September 13, 2018, 04:35:06 PM
DB/EWS's own Megafrets are FKAs, as opposed to the IKA made by Dapol (I suspect a maroon IKA would be near indistinguishable once loaded with boxes!). EWS don't use the FEA spine wagons as made by Dapol, but they do use Ecofrets (FWAs IIRC)

Nearly impossible to tell from those photos what they actually are though, need a better image.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: SteveB1510 on September 14, 2018, 12:25:00 PM
DB/EWS's own Megafrets are FKAs, as opposed to the IKA made by Dapol (I suspect a maroon IKA would be near indistinguishable once loaded with boxes!). EWS don't use the FEA spine wagons as made by Dapol, but they do use Ecofrets (FWAs IIRC)

Nearly impossible to tell from those photos what they actually are though, need a better image.
hh

Thanks again for the replies everyone.  I suspect njee20 might be correct that these wagons are likely FKA twins as they usually seem to run in even numbers.  I guess the only definitive answer will be if I can find out a consist list or two for these workings in the near future.

Assuming they are FKAs, I guess an alternative option would be to use a pair of weathered Dapol megafrets - assuming the Tank Tainers will fit onto them properly in due course.  Alternatively of course, I could just invoke rule 1 & order another couple of KFAs for this purpose before the order deadline closes.  Decisions, decisions...

Thanks,

Steve
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on September 14, 2018, 02:29:38 PM
Dunno why I hadn't watched the videos :doh:

The second video appears to have a pair of unloaded FKAs at the back (in front of the IPAs) - they're lower floor, but only have 45' of loading deck. The others all appear to be FCAs - which are EWS's spine wagons, similar to the FEAs that GBRF and FL use. Again - given they're usually filthy and covered with boxes you could invoke rule 1 and either go for KFAs, or use FEAs and paint them maroon, then cover them in dirt!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on September 14, 2018, 10:38:16 PM
EWS don't use the FEA spine wagons as made by Dapol, but they do use Ecofrets (FWAs IIRC)

Hi all,

Strictly speaking that is correct in that Dapol have only done Freightliner and GBRf FEA-Bs in N, but DB (previously EWS) do operate some (or maybe all?) of the ex-Fastline FEA-Bs.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: SteveB1510 on September 20, 2018, 05:36:11 PM
EWS don't use the FEA spine wagons as made by Dapol, but they do use Ecofrets (FWAs IIRC)

Hi all,

Strictly speaking that is correct in that Dapol have only done Freightliner and GBRf FEA-Bs in N, but DB (previously EWS) do operate some (or maybe all?) of the ex-Fastline FEA-Bs.

Cheers

Ben A.

Thanks again for the replies everyone.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Intercity on October 03, 2018, 04:29:58 PM
Hopefully I’m not stepping on toes, but just an FYI that RevolutioN have announced on their website that the order book is closing October 14th, thanks Mike and Ben for another model coming to fruition.

Now off to harass work to get get my paycheck in so I can pay off the IZAs.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on October 03, 2018, 06:51:18 PM

Hello all,

Yes, beat me to it!

The order deadline for the PFA/KFA container flats is midnight on Sunday October 14th 2018.

Rapido have indicated that the 00 tankers are almost ready for shipping and we have been told the KFAs are next in line. 

To minimise any "lag" between production runs I understand the factory likes to get the PO in a little early so they can order in materials, paint etc and have them on site ready to begin.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on October 03, 2018, 07:04:19 PM
A quick reminder to anyone wanting to build a HOCT (High Output Concrete Train) using my Sapeways print, now is the time to order a black Network rail KFA  :)

The print is available already on Shapeways and the price includes etches and transfers.  The model can also be built with Shapeways printed KFA prints but it wont look so good  :D
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: The Cuckoo on October 07, 2018, 08:03:41 PM
Apologies if it has already been discussed in the thread, but can anyone advise me, which would be the best option of these wagons to use for a Manchester 'Binliner' from the late 90s to around 2015. If I remember correctly it ran to Roxby.
I'd seen Freightliner locos on this working, so was going to opt for the Freightliner version, but I seem to also remember EWS and Load Haul on this working. 
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on October 07, 2018, 09:58:06 PM
I think Vonzack has a couple of different types on Shapeways.

In a similar vein I was wondering which of the two would be closest to the ones used on the flow from Knowsley to Roxby via Wigan Wallgate.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Vonzack on October 08, 2018, 09:38:50 AM
@The Cuckoo (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=275), I think the Version 5 or 6 KFAs would be a best fit for you if you want to model the 'Binliner'. These tend to be so filthy though, you really can't make out any branding from pictures.

I think the flows you and @jpendle (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3871) are talking about come through York and they are generally 16 wagons, I haven't seen it recently, but there has been an FEA-B used to replace two of the KFAs, so that makes it a bit different.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on October 16, 2018, 11:22:17 AM
Damn been away with work for a week and forgot about the deadline, just been on the revolution site to top up my order and seen it closed on Sunday. Bugger !
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on October 16, 2018, 12:36:24 PM
@Spanners70 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=5079) if you get it in quick then I haven't taken them off sale yet as I've been busy with other things, but it will be off sale later today.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on October 16, 2018, 01:30:19 PM
Thanks mike, I had 12 on order. Now I have 23 on order...your gonna bankrupt me...
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on October 16, 2018, 09:48:33 PM
just sneaked another order in.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Arrachogaidh on October 21, 2018, 11:35:57 PM
Do the 3DR RHTT modules fit directly onto the Revolution KFA's?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: kirky on October 22, 2018, 05:24:25 PM
Do the 3DR RHTT modules fit directly onto the Revolution KFA's?
I'd be very surprised if they didnt. I've moved mine from the dapol spines to the 3d version and back again. No problems.

cheers
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on October 23, 2018, 11:03:54 AM
Aren't the Dapol spine wagons the ones with the outriggers in the wrong location? I know there was a lot of fuss about correcting them in 4mm.

As to whether the RHTT modules will fit - if they are the correct length with pins in the right place (and small enough) then they'll fit, otherwise the locating pins might need removing.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on October 23, 2018, 11:37:00 AM
Yes they're either evenly spaced and shouldn't be, or they aren't evenly spaced and they should be. I forget which!

Sure it'll be easy enough to resolve - I use a bit of Tacky Wax or similar to keep containers in place, and once you're doing that the actual mechanical fixing lugs are largely immaterial.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 10, 2018, 11:51:07 AM
For those who have ordered the Network Rail Black with yellow bogies might like one of these as a dedicated load. :D

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/71/3761-091118211251.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=71332)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on October 21, 2019, 04:41:46 PM
Any news on delivery dates on the KFA or any other models before Christmas. @Ben A (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=94) @red_death (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=246)

Thanks
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on October 22, 2019, 01:22:00 AM

Hello all,

When we hear the models are close to being shipped we'll update. 

cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on November 04, 2019, 09:16:53 PM
 :claphappy: Mike has just posted on the Rev web site a picture of a nice big pallet awaiting uplift.

Looks as if there on there way  :claphappy:

Along with C rail, Arran said he is waiting on the pocket wagons arriving shortly.

Could be double good news in the coming weeks.

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on November 07, 2019, 12:37:36 AM
Blimey, its been 2 days since the announcement the KFAs are coming.

I thought everyone would be jumping with joy, but all been quiet.

Heres me polishing my containers getting ready for Mr Postie knocking at my door.

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on November 07, 2019, 04:35:23 AM
well I am certainly hoping they make it down under for Christmas but wont be holding my breath. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on November 07, 2019, 07:56:53 AM
Cool they’re being air freighted. I can’t even remember how many I ordered. Think it was only a couple. Should’ve got more.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 07, 2019, 08:13:56 AM
Cool they’re being air freighted. I can’t even remember how many I ordered. Think it was only a couple. Should’ve got more.

I know exactly how many I ordered and definitely wish I could have afforded more.

The only plus side is they may be quite close in colour to the pocket wagons I have ordered (also now on the way). Of course in reality they would both be filthy, but does anybody know if the two types ran / run together?

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on November 07, 2019, 08:27:44 AM
I’m very pleased these are nearly here. They will be a very versatile wagon; on my layout they will be used in three trains; in the formation of an MOD train, a “binliner” and a conventional Freightliner. I just need to get hold of the three different container types per wagon...
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on November 07, 2019, 08:39:32 AM
The only plus side is they may be quite close in colour to the pocket wagons I have ordered (also now on the way). Of course in reality they would both be filthy, but does anybody know if the two types ran / run together?

Yes they absolutely do.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 07, 2019, 08:53:34 AM
The only plus side is they may be quite close in colour to the pocket wagons I have ordered (also now on the way). Of course in reality they would both be filthy, but does anybody know if the two types ran / run together?

Yes they absolutely do.

Excellent, so my meagre three can now become a train of six (quite by accident  :D)

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on November 07, 2019, 11:58:35 AM
Yes KFAs and KQAs often run together.

We will have some spares for sale from some of our retailers (and possibly from ourselves as well).

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 07, 2019, 12:05:05 PM
Yes KFAs and KQAs often run together.

We will have some spares for sale from some of our retailers (and possibly from ourselves as well).

Cheers Mike

 ;D And the Devil pops up to tempt.....

Ref your recent communication on Warley: I followed the instructions on replying to order confirmation e-mail, I assume yourself and Ben will be snowed under sorting out all the boxes and therefore only confirm *IF* collection is possible after this process is complete?

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on November 08, 2019, 07:43:59 AM
We will confirm to people but I’m working in Slovakia all this week in a series of long meetings so confirmations will go out when I’m back home and get some time.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 08, 2019, 07:53:33 AM
We will confirm to people but I’m working in Slovakia all this week in a series of long meetings so confirmations will go out when I’m back home and get some time.

Cheers Mike

Wow Mike, after going all that way I hope they are long meetings else it’s not worth it!

Hope your trip goes well.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: acko22 on November 10, 2019, 02:01:30 AM
Hi all,

I can't wait to get my hands on these  :D

For those of you who may only have one or two not to worry there is actually a run which only uses a single tiphook blue KFA with a blue 20ft side loaded container on!
The flow is internal within Basford Hall yard between the Basford Hall VMF (Depot) and the freightliner Fuel point this is for stores (sand, windscreen wash, lubes, etc), it is these days generally ran about by one of the yard 08s but has been moved about by 66s , 47830 and on one occasion a class 70!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on November 18, 2019, 05:38:15 PM
Although we know that the KFAs are in the UK and we’ve paid the import VAT we’re still waiting for TNT to pull their finger out and deliver them.

Assuming that they do deliver before Friday then we’ll confirm to everyone who has asked to collect them at Warley.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on November 25, 2019, 06:27:36 PM
Here we go then, my little review of these.

In a word: Lovely.

Like everything else with Revolution on the box, these just ooze quality.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/1081-251119181823.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=84360)

I can see where the extra time to add weight went, they are very sure footed on the track.

Had them running with the equally lovely C-Rail pockets, nice colour match actually (like that would matter even slightly after some actual use in real life). Coupling up, forwards, backwards, loaded and not: No problems.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyf0nplseiaf05w/Video%2025-11-2019%2C%2017%2051%2045.mov?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/yyf0nplseiaf05w/Video%2025-11-2019%2C%2017%2051%2045.mov?dl=0)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tc9u7ejm2zgie3/Video%2025-11-2019%2C%2017%2050%2040.mov?dl=0 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/0tc9u7ejm2zgie3/Video%2025-11-2019%2C%2017%2050%2040.mov?dl=0)

Once again, a winner.

Skyline2uk
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on November 25, 2019, 08:09:47 PM
They are lovely indeed. I realised though, that with my 3, and the KTAs I bought I’ve now made my FL container rake too long. So I’ll have to have a second one. With Ecofrets and FSAs coming too it’s only common sense!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on November 25, 2019, 08:24:37 PM
this really wets the appetite, hopefully mine arrive for Christmas
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Railbank on November 26, 2019, 07:33:23 PM
does anyone know if all of the surprise Touax liveried versions sold out at Warley?

would have liked some but afraid Warley is not a show I have frequented for a long time.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on November 26, 2019, 07:55:44 PM
Touax version: no they haven't all sold - they will be available from some of our retailers and we will also have some to sell direct from our website (once the retailers get their stock we will put up whatever we have left).

Off the top of my head: East Somerset Models; Rails; Trains4U; Osborns and Kernow should have both the single and triple packs of the Touax version once we send them this week.  Cheltenham should have the single version.  All are stocking some or all of the "normal" versions of KFA for anyone who missed out pre-ordering.

Cheers, Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Railbank on November 26, 2019, 08:00:11 PM
thank you Mike for a prompt reply.

Paul
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on December 04, 2019, 11:26:03 PM
Is there any update on when they will be posted out.  I'm hoping to have them for Christmas  :D
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: cutting42 on December 05, 2019, 01:14:24 AM
Mine arrived today, many thanks Ben and Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on December 05, 2019, 10:00:34 AM
Mine arrived today, many thanks Ben and Mike

Thank you, looks hopeful  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on December 05, 2019, 12:46:57 PM
Is there any update on when they will be posted out.  I'm hoping to have them for Christmas  :D

Some were collected at Warley and about 25% have gone out earlier this week, but we still have hundreds of orders to process, pick, pack and post.  We will try to update your order to complete when it is posted but I'm already behind on that as my real job have expected me to do some work this week!  We will also update the project overview section of our website with progress on sending out orders.

Anyone who asks for a personal update by email on their order will go straight to the back of the queue ;-)

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: eddief83 on December 05, 2019, 01:37:15 PM
Anyone who asks for a personal update by email on their order will go straight to the back of the queue ;-)

Given that I have not ordered any (yet, sacrilege I know but I have only this year decided to model a Freightliner train) if I email asking about my order will one be auto-generated for me? Thus avoiding paying for it  :)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on December 05, 2019, 02:40:26 PM
Given that I have not ordered any

Seriously, if you would like any then you might not want to hang around as there is only a limited amount of stock at a small number of retailers (listed on our website) and we do not hold any stock as we only produced to pre-orders.

Best wishes

Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: gc4946 on December 05, 2019, 07:55:34 PM
Today I had a Royal Mail card posted through my letterbox. As I haven't ordered anything recently which involves RM delivery, I'm sure they're my long-awaited models at the sorting office awaiting collection.

I'm looking forward to them because I can realistically model short container trains without the hassle of running twin sets.
Some years I saw a GBRf 66 depart from Doncaster hauling one empty container flat probably heading to Peterborough.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Steven B on December 06, 2019, 09:10:04 AM
Mine arrived safely this week - both my original order from Revolution and a "top up" from Rails as I discovered the train I wanted to model was longer than I first thought...

I've yet to have a close look or give them a run yet but they look great. One very minor anoyance: on one of my triple packs one wagon has been labeled as the Network Rail version. Fortunately the wagon inside the box appears to be correct so I'm not worried about it. I'm guessing there's someone with a Network Rail triple back with an PFA labeled box.

Steven B.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Skyline2uk on December 06, 2019, 09:23:34 AM
Mine arrived safely this week - both my original order from Revolution and a "top up" from Rails as I discovered the train I wanted to model was longer than I first thought...

I've yet to have a close look or give them a run yet but they look great. One very minor anoyance: on one of my triple packs one wagon has been labeled as the Network Rail version. Fortunately the wagon inside the box appears to be correct so I'm not worried about it. I'm guessing there's someone with a Network Rail triple back with an PFA labeled box.

Steven B.

I caused the boys some confusion at Warley when I pointed out my original Blue bogie KFAs were labelled as having black ones.

No matter at all, my order was correct.

I have utmost respect for those labelling thousands of boxes!

Skyline2uk

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: MacRat on December 06, 2019, 06:38:23 PM
PFA/KFA made it to the continent as well. Thank's to Ben and Mike.

Had not a lot of time to examine the wagons, though the level of detail is amazing and the wagons have good weighted feel to them. They seem heavier than the recent C-Rail KQA pocket wagon.

Dapol Containers cannot be put on the wagons without removing the positioning pins on the container corners. On the Farish containers I have I needed to cut off 4 pins that where more on the inside of the container, after that the container where a snug fit to the KFA. No problem and modification with C-Rail containers.

A few thinks popped up though, literally. From three wagons I had out of the box on one the metal frame was completely detached, on a second it gave an audible click when pressing the metal frame to the top of the wagon. After removing the boogies I could put the frame back on the wagon. May have to check all wagons for this and may need to add some glue to keep it in position. All three looked a bit wobbly on the container deck, but I haven't checked in detail to verify. Someone noticed this as well?

A few pictures with bad lighting. First is the Network Rail variant, second shows Tiphook and Freightliner with C-Rail and Farish container.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on December 06, 2019, 06:41:23 PM
Made it to the Continent  :o
No sign of mine north of the border though :'(  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: MacRat on December 06, 2019, 06:42:56 PM
Also wanted to show the difference in width with the C-Rail pocket wagon.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Western Exile on December 06, 2019, 06:51:14 PM
Made it to the Continent  :o
No sign of mine north of the border though :'(  :smiley-laughing:

Perhaps they are being sent out in the same order in which people placed their orders? That would seem fair. You will know when yours are on the way because the order status will change from “processing” to “completed”.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on December 06, 2019, 07:11:34 PM
Made it to the Continent  :o
No sign of mine north of the border though :'(  :smiley-laughing:

Perhaps they are being sent out in the same order in which people placed their orders? That would seem fair. You will know when yours are on the way because the order status will change from “processing” to “completed”.

Mine are on the same order as my Class320 deposit, so I may well not know if they have been shipped until they arrive  :dunce:

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: StufromEGDL on December 06, 2019, 08:52:35 PM
Also wanted to show the difference in width with the C-Rail pocket wagon.



The pocket wagons will always be wider as they have framing outside of the containers whereas the KFAs are ‘skeleton’ wagons only the pure width of the container. As with all manufacturers, there will be subtle differences, eg the buffers as some compromises may be needed for strength and durability when reduced by a factor of 148 times.

Later,
Stu from EGDL.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on December 06, 2019, 09:09:02 PM
Made it to the Continent  :o
No sign of mine north of the border though :'(  :smiley-laughing:

Perhaps they are being sent out in the same order in which people placed their orders? That would seem fair. You will know when yours are on the way because the order status will change from “processing” to “completed”.

Mine are on the same order as my Class320 deposit, so I may well not know if they have been shipped until they arrive  :dunce:

John P
guess I will be running mine in the new year, something to look forward to. along with ordering more Pendolinos and TEA's
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on December 07, 2019, 09:31:23 AM
Very happy  :bounce:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/3761-071219093044.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=84867)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on December 07, 2019, 09:01:41 PM
And so you should be, looks superb.

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on December 10, 2019, 10:05:53 AM
Quote
Hi Mark,
We have finished processing your order.
[Order #3784] (31/07/2016)

 :bounce:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on December 10, 2019, 03:04:08 PM
 :doh: Doh! Just realised that I hadn't updated my shipping address since my redundancy! :smackedface:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: rusticged on December 10, 2019, 08:27:31 PM
A BIG BIG Thank you once again Ben & Mike.
Absolutely fabulous wagons. They run beautifully and look amazing either 'bare' or loaded with 40', 20' and tanker containers.
Superb!!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: westie7 on December 10, 2019, 09:56:33 PM
So my triple pack arrived today, Another fantastic wagon!

I had made aluminium ingot 30' racks years ago and run them on Farish multifrets as a compromise. Wrong wagon with dodgy scratch built load. Now I can't possibly put the racks on these wagons. I will have to create something decent to compliment such fine detail.

More top quality stock, new, regular and fast from concept to delivery. Completely changing the N Gauge marketplace
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: JBQFC on December 11, 2019, 09:40:53 AM
got my two yesterday great models they are
all i need now is some RHTT modules to go on them

John
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on December 11, 2019, 08:47:43 PM
A mate just brought mine from (my old) work for me, once he'd rescued the parcel from my old boss's desk - who went off on a moan of "What's he doing getting his post delivered here when he doesn't work here anymore?". Yes, he's as a big a :censored: as he sounds.

A brief inspection reveals a beautiful looking wagon. Looking forward to getting them all out for a better daylight inspection tomorrow.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on December 12, 2019, 05:38:51 PM
And boy do these wagons stand up to closer inspection!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49208800036_82a06006c5_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hYpXQQ)
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49208800101_d3e2a814a5_k.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hYpXRX)
Images © Mark Adedeji (https://www.flickr.com/photos/185676938@N06/), on Flickr

Just look at the :moony: on that! I might have to knock up a loop of track suspended from the ceiling exclusively for running RevolutioN wagons. :D

Another thing I must mention. I'd made two orders separated by a few months. Naturally each order applied a shipping charge. I received both of my orders in a single shipment. RevolutioN have automatically (and with no prompting from me) refunded 1x shipping charge! Ben, Mike, et al, this may not be your primary jobs but the way you conduct your business puts others to shame.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: robert shrives on December 13, 2019, 08:09:32 PM
My couple of packs arrived a few days ago and now have- well the NR ones been layout tested and loaded with RHTT modules and with a yellow 37 been able to run the Cambrian train with the three extra water tanks - looks good all far to clean- must have been on a delivery run rather than jetting !
The RHTT modules from the forum and look the part , I cut off the locating pegs and fit to these new wagons with tacky wax and all is calm!
Thanks gents for another fine product and all involved in the work in getting it to market.
Robert   
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on December 13, 2019, 09:07:54 PM
mine have arrived down under, now to start loading with containers and will get a run before Christmas. Very happy with them.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: monkey_brains on December 14, 2019, 12:08:36 PM
I have a 'Sorry we missed you' card from Royal Mail, and couldn't work out what on earth it was - fingers crossed when I go to retrieve it that I have some Revolution goodies!
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on December 14, 2019, 01:58:40 PM
 :(
My order still says “Processing”
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Merrylee on December 14, 2019, 02:12:03 PM
 :'( :'( :'(  mine to

Ron
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on December 14, 2019, 10:21:33 PM
We’ve sent out about 50%! The rest will still take some time.

Cheers mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: 1936ace on December 15, 2019, 02:31:07 AM
mine have arrived down under, now to start loading with containers and will get a run before Christmas. Very happy with them.
Hopefully mine might come this week if you already have yours. That would make for an awesome Christmas from Santa
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Graham on December 15, 2019, 04:05:45 AM
ran them unloaded and now loaded and they are superb runners. I had one which kept derailing, however I couldn't find anything wrong with it so put it at the back of the rake and it then ran for about an hour without a hiccup.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on December 15, 2019, 08:22:56 AM
Can someone post a picture/video of them running with and without containers please.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on December 15, 2019, 07:25:36 PM

Hello all,

Another large batch were packed this weekend and will be posted tomorrow.  We are working our way through them as fast as we can!

In terms of running, we have tried to shoehorn every last gram of weight into them (even the air tanks are cast metal rather than moulded plastic) but the prototypes are of a weight-saving skeletal construction and so the models are  inevitably a little lighter on their feet than some of our other models!

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: JBQFC on December 15, 2019, 07:33:47 PM
(https://live.staticflickr.com/7501/15817717388_bdfa1d8c44_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/q6KWij)KFA 93315 (https://flic.kr/p/q6KWij) by john brace (https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenfanjohn/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/8356/29753975291_91c0f2a6b6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/MkfUeZ)KFA 93472 (https://flic.kr/p/MkfUeZ) by john brace (https://www.flickr.com/photos/queenfanjohn/), on Flickr

John
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: RailGooner on December 15, 2019, 08:10:13 PM
Nice weathering John. :D
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Paulwhitt20 on December 15, 2019, 08:40:01 PM
Thanks, but I meant of the models...
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: gc4946 on December 15, 2019, 08:53:22 PM
Suffice to say I've very satisfied with my models.
Yesterday I ran them without containers on my oval test track and they performed well without derailments.
They're far more useful for my small layout needs than the twin coupled sets that Dapol and Farish produce; two or three years ago after attending the Doncaster show on the way home I saw a GBRf 66 haul one unladen container flat.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Steven B on December 16, 2019, 09:25:45 AM
I gave mine a run at the Yorkshire Area Group Meeting last Saturday (along with two others!).

They run very well - the effort to get as much weight in as possible has clearly paid off. The detailing on them is also supurb.

A couple of very minor grumbles: one of mine would occasionally uncouple from the rake of wagons - once moved to the end of the train it wasn't a problem. The couplings also weren't a good height match for Dapol's Rfd class 86; The loco would come uncoupled within seconds of the train starting to move. I needed to add a Dapol ferry van as a barrier. Hopefully it won't be a problem when run with a class 47 on a bin-liner train (I've got lots of containers to scratch build!)

I was a little suprised by the livery finish. Despite my wagons being the earlier PFA type they were printed with the post 1997 OHLE warning triangle which I'll either need to remove, replace with the red flash sign or weather over. They aren't shown on the livery diagrams. Also, on one side the brakes are dragging a little as the brake position indicator has been printed as being half-on rather than fully off as per the other side!

Despite my comments (I am being really picky!), these wagons really are supurb and I wouldn't hesitate to recommend them. I'm now looking forward to the Sturgeons and class 92.


Steven B.

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: LeftToMyOwnDevices on December 16, 2019, 11:48:16 PM
We’ve sent out about 50%! The rest will still take some time.

Cheers mike


Hello all,

Another large batch were packed this weekend and will be posted tomorrow.  We are working our way through them as fast as we can!
....
Cheers Ben A.

:thankyousign:
Just like to thank you both, somewhat belatedly, for allowing me to collect my KFA order at Warley, last month.

Whilst it might be of little comfort to those still waiting to receive theirs, I am still very grateful that it was possible to do this.

It was quite clear, to me, just how much work it was for you both, plus Gareth and Paul(?). With all those carrier bags, it did almost look like you were running a fast-food take-away... :goggleeyes:
...so it's just as well you didn't say to me: "Do you want fries with that...?" :D As I might well have said: "Yes, please..."  :smiley-laughing:

This is the first NGF posting I have made, in almost a year... :(
Not quite sure why that is, but I have felt moved to post this - as I am now a year older today. Something the bottom of the NGF webpage kindly reminds me of.  :o

Charles.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: JBQFC on December 17, 2019, 09:48:16 AM
Thanks, but I meant of the models...

sorry half a sleep after a 12 hour shift

John
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: njee20 on December 17, 2019, 10:26:53 AM
To be fair, the request was non-specific and with all due respect to Paul there are plenty of photos of the models out there, all from the front page of Google Images:

(https://images.railsofsheffield.com/product-images.axd/N22404.IMG_9733.jpg?preset=large)

(http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/IMG_5092.jpg)

(http://www.revolutiontrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/17ABDD6F-5FF5-439A-83A3-2EBEF0E39B39.jpeg)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on January 06, 2020, 12:21:08 PM
Anyone with a recent delivery, was your order number anywhere near 12889 ? Wondering how long before mine arrive don’t want to mither revolution as know there busy chaps making me spend my wages with them....
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Nighthawk on January 06, 2020, 12:42:06 PM
Hi Spanners70,
Mine were delivered on Saturday 4th Jan.  My order numbers were 12058 and part of a much earlier order 2484.  Hopefully yours will arrive soon.
Superb models!
John D
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on January 06, 2020, 02:20:41 PM
My order number is 3807, but it also includes a partial payment on a CL320, which may slow things down. I've seen nothing yet.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on January 06, 2020, 02:47:00 PM
I think that Ben posted the last lot of orders on Friday (though I've yet to mark them as despatched on our website) so people should start to receive any outstanding orders over the next few days (longer if you live outside the UK!).

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on January 06, 2020, 03:45:03 PM
Thanks for the update Mike ( @red_death (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=246) )

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on January 06, 2020, 04:28:52 PM
Thanks all. I’ve had to bite the bullet and email you Mike, I seem to have some items off each of my orders, but 7 wagons short. And 4 bonus ones I don’t have on my order so not sure what’s occurred... but I’m sure it can be sorted.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: 1936ace on January 13, 2020, 10:10:53 AM
I've just checked and have nothing to show that my order has been posted. I know some in Australia have received theirs before Christmas, hopefully it won't be too much longer.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on January 13, 2020, 11:05:35 AM
I've just checked and have nothing to show that my order has been posted. I know some in Australia have received theirs before Christmas, hopefully it won't be too much longer.

Please see my update a couple of posts above yours from 6 Jan!

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Intercity on January 13, 2020, 04:50:50 PM
Postie just delivered a package today containing 4 triple packs (I’m missing 6 packs but am waiting to see if I am receiving multiple packages), they look totally awesome, well done everyone who made this project come to fruition, that’s from the guys at Revolution to the folks who trusted and crowdfunded, FYI these have made it to the east coast of the states.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: dmck123 on January 20, 2020, 03:14:30 PM
Already posted on the 'other channel' so sorry for anyone who has already seen this, but a big thanks to everyone involved in these outstanding models, they really are very well done. Makes me now very excited for the next revolution models (especially the 92s and the 321s).

Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Intercity on January 24, 2020, 05:21:24 PM
Just wondering if folks overseas have been getting their orders, as I mentioned above I received some but am missing several from other orders, hoping it just the postal service but am getting a little concerned, I emailed the guys at Revolution, hopefully it doesn't sound like a pestering email  :worried:
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on January 24, 2020, 05:56:29 PM
I haven't received mine either.

Funnily enough I was going to PM you this weekend to see if the rest of yours had arrived yet.

Mine are in a single order with a deposit on a CL321 as well, so I suspect I may be at the back of the queue.

I'm also waiting for my Realtrack PCA's, and again there's no way of knowing if they've even been shipped without pestering the 2 guys at Realtrack.

Regards,

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Intercity on January 27, 2020, 06:14:50 PM
An update, Super pleased to say the remaining box has arrived and the delivery is now complete, JP hopefully yours will be arriving any day as well.

Great job, thanks to all at Revolution Trains
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on February 10, 2020, 11:24:16 AM
Very happy  :bounce:

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/84/3761-071219093044.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=84867)

I have four kits available for this model including a Revolution KFA.  If anyone is interested please PM me they will be £70 each.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/87/3761-100220112231.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=87332)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Spanners70 on February 10, 2020, 07:15:44 PM
Very nice and very tempting. Would you do a kit without the wagon ? Ordered far too many wagons as it is....
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Snowwolflair on February 10, 2020, 07:21:59 PM
Very nice and very tempting. Would you do a kit without the wagon ? Ordered far too many wagons as it is....

Yes if you buy it from Shapeways I send you the rest of the kit for the Shapeways price.

https://www.shapeways.com/product/76PMZXR8W/hoct-high-output-concrete-train?optionId=69180311&li=shops (https://www.shapeways.com/product/76PMZXR8W/hoct-high-output-concrete-train?optionId=69180311&li=shops)
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: red_death on February 11, 2020, 06:43:56 PM
I've just finished going through checking any outstanding orders and there are about 20-25 orders to go out still.  Ben is hoping to pack them tomorrow or Thursday.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on February 20, 2020, 05:52:45 PM
Happy Happy Happy.

Mine arrived with this morning's post, i.e, 10 minutes ago.

Had a quick look at one and it looks superb, now I need to get out to the train shed to have a play.

I do have one question. Mine have a plastic bit with a couple of hooks on them, what is this for? My eye for detail isn't what it was!

 :thankyousign: Ben & Mike

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: jpendle on February 20, 2020, 08:55:55 PM

I do have one question. Mine have a plastic bit with a couple of hooks on them, what is this for? My eye for detail isn't what it was!

John P

OK, stand down folks. I put my brain in gear and found the instructions at the bottom of the box :-[

John P
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: MoonGoddess on March 07, 2020, 03:44:40 PM
I managed to pick up several of these from a few retailers and have noticed none of them are completely level when putting a 40ft C-Rail container on them. All of them have subtle warping on at least one end causing the pins not to properly seat in the holes and a little gap underneath the container.

Tried a shorter container and it hides the issue, although it is still disappointing as I wanted to use a mixture of container lengths.

Have I been really unlucky or are they all naturally like this to some degree?
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: rusticged on March 07, 2020, 04:23:30 PM
Hi Moongoddess
You have either been a little unlucky or I have been very fortunate. I have not had that problem with any of my wagons and I am using a mixture of container lengths.
I have added a little weight to each wagon because with a long rake a wagon near the front would occasionally be derailed on a corner due to the number of wagons behind.
Cheers,
Ged.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 07, 2020, 05:23:08 PM

Hello Moongoddess,

I am sorry to hear about your problems.

In practical terms these models are an engineering challenge as to replicate the spindly nature of the prototype accurately requires that the plastic deck is thin and perforated, and above the bogies is even thinner.

A couple of my own KFAs were not bent but had a very slight “twist” at one end - my solution was to place the wagon top down on the box and, holding the deck flat, very slowly and carefully twist the errant end back into position.  The amount of twisting needed is barely a millimetre or two and the important thing is not to overdo it and to twist the deck - not the coupler.  This straightened them out.

However, if you don’t want to do this then please contact your retailer for warranty replacement.

Cheers

Ben A.
Title: Re: Revolution Trains PFA/KFA container wagons
Post by: Ben A on March 07, 2020, 06:11:19 PM

Hello Moongoddess,

I am sorry to hear about your problems.

In practical terms these models are an engineering challenge as to replicate the spindly nature of the prototype accurately requires that the plastic deck is thin and perforated, and above the bogies is even thinner.

A couple of my own KFAs were not bent but had a very slight “twist” at one end - my solution was to place the wagon top down on the box and, holding the deck flat, very slowly and carefully twist the errant end back into position.  The amount of twisting needed is barely a millimetre or two and the important thing is not to overdo it and to twist the deck - not the coupler.  This straightened them out.

However, if you don’t want to do this then please contact your retailer for warranty replacement.

Cheers

Ben A.
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