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General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: Jollybob on February 13, 2016, 11:13:06 AM

Title: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 13, 2016, 11:13:06 AM
Hi people, has anyone ever built, repainted or modified a locomotive to make it into fictitious design? I figured that if you can have a model layout that is made up, why not do the same for locomotives and rolling stock.
I suppose that a classic example is the old fatish GP tank, or is that a real locomotive I just never seen before?

Regards

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: PLD on February 13, 2016, 11:26:56 AM
the old fatish GP tank, or is that a real locomotive I just never seen before?
It's what you get if you stretch a Jinty to fit the wrong sized chassis you have from the GWR Pannier (that it's not quite right for either!)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Agrippa on February 13, 2016, 11:56:19 AM
Don't see why not, after all some people build layouts on a theme of
"What if a certain rail line had continued to a fictitious town or area".

I've painted rolling stock , usually Peco tank wagons in a particular colour
just because I liked that colour, but that's just me..............

Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: GroupC on February 13, 2016, 12:22:23 PM
Didn't Lima do this with everything they made? That "Deltic" for example was clearly fictitious as it bore very little resemblance to the Deltic I remember seeing in 1:1 scale.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 13, 2016, 12:44:26 PM
I've considered trying to do some of the "designed but never got built" like Adams LSWR single, Urie's 4-8-0,  Maunsell's 2-6-2 & Pacific, Bulleids SR 2-8-2, some I've seen drawings of, others would be mere flights of fancy; Urie's 4-8-0 shouldn't be too difficult, stretch a Langley S15 coupled to a BHE N15 tender; but for the Maunsell 2-6-2 do you stretch an N class or shorten an Arthur? For the 4-6-2 stretch a Nelson , nearest to that would probably be a hacked Scot or Jubilee.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 13, 2016, 01:47:58 PM
That's started me thinking - dangerous (to the wallet), anybody got a spare V2 complete or just chassis, runner or non runner cosmetically challenged, anything from a motorless (but otherwise good) chassis to complete loco, (cheaper the better).

Wheels on the V2 were 6'2", the Maunsell would have been 6'3" - close enough in N gauge, I'm assuming a family resemblance to the Nelson, I can hack that!
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: njee20 on February 13, 2016, 01:56:43 PM
I'm sure Mustermark of this parish has done something with a Western and a fictitious backstory. Can't remember if he just renumbered it though or if he did any cosmetic changes.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: porkie on February 13, 2016, 02:12:01 PM
Ive got a class50 in intercity swollow livery
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Tank on February 13, 2016, 02:22:09 PM
I've got a list of fictional Network SouthEast liveried loco's and MU's.  My latest that I'm working on is a Class 89 in NSE livery.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Arrachogaidh on February 13, 2016, 02:34:52 PM

Yes, I asked Adam Warr (Electra Graphics) to make up ScotRail Saltire livery to transform some old Minitrix and Lima vehicles to replicate the image below.


(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 13, 2016, 05:24:03 PM
Some interesting Ideas.
I'm taking a big leap and decided that I wanted to build a private railway like a hospital railway or colliery or something like that (haven't quite made up my mind yet). Anyway, I wanted something different so I effectively took a Japanese Bandai loco, stuck buffers on it and painted it a different colour.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

I do apologize about the poor light in my picture.

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jerry Howlett on February 13, 2016, 05:34:46 PM
Some interesting Ideas.
I'm taking a big leap and decided that I wanted to build a private railway like a hospital railway or colliery or something like that (haven't quite made up my mind yet). Anyway, I wanted something different so I effectively took a Japanese Bandai loco, stuck buffers on it and painted it a different colour.
Rob.

Looks similar to a number of UK private locos and also a couple of locos built for the NE railway that survived into the 1960's as BR 26500 and 26501.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 13, 2016, 05:46:14 PM
 :thankyousign:

That was one of the reasons why I got it. The other reason was because the whole thing was really cheap. The locomotive kit and chassis included the postage cost about 30, the buffers from N brass 2.50 and the same again for the pantograph.
Then I can allow the imagination run wild.

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Mustermark on February 13, 2016, 10:05:27 PM
I'm sure Mustermark of this parish has done something with a Western and a fictitious backstory. Can't remember if he just renumbered it though or if he did any cosmetic changes.


Not so much in the way of cosmetic change, but it was renumbered and the headcode blanked...

(http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z334/Mustermark/Rolling%20Stock/DSC_0002.jpg) (http://s1184.photobucket.com/user/Mustermark/media/Rolling%20Stock/DSC_0002.jpg.html)

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1545.msg72542#msg72542 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=1545.msg72542#msg72542)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: zwilnik on February 13, 2016, 10:18:58 PM
I did manage to find a photo once of an industrial 0-6-0 that looked remarkably similar to the Farish general purpose tank engine. According to the caption it was being moved temporarily to the Tanfield Railway near Newcastle. I've not been able to find the photo since though.

Generally speaking though, when it comes to industrial locomotives, there's pretty much a prototype for everything :)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: zwilnik on February 13, 2016, 10:32:09 PM
Some interesting Ideas.
I'm taking a big leap and decided that I wanted to build a private railway like a hospital railway or colliery or something like that (haven't quite made up my mind yet). Anyway, I wanted something different so I effectively took a Japanese Bandai loco, stuck buffers on it and painted it a different colour.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

I do apologize about the poor light in my picture.

Rob.


Here's something very similar parked at Tanfield (their scrap line is well worth visiting with a camera ;) )

http://lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7480 (http://lner.info/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=7480)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Bealman on February 13, 2016, 10:41:45 PM
Those old Triang 0-4-0 locos from the 1960s would have to be strong contenders - "Nellie," "Connie" and the yellow 0-4-0 Transcontinental shunter repainted with "Dock Shunter" on the side.

In fact all of Triang's Transcontinental series, when I think about it.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: BobB on February 14, 2016, 06:53:00 AM
I was thinking of a class 68 in BR corporate blue with full yellow ends following the contour up and around the cab's side windows. Ordinary size number and indecisive arrows should make it look good - it's about the only modern loco that is an interesting shape IMHO !
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 14, 2016, 01:35:12 PM
I did manage to find a photo once of an industrial 0-6-0 that looked remarkably similar to the Farish general purpose tank engine. According to the caption it was being moved temporarily to the Tanfield Railway near Newcastle. I've not been able to find the photo since though.

Generally speaking though, when it comes to industrial locomotives, there's pretty much a prototype for everything :)


I completely agree with this last bit. If it perfectly exceptable in an industrial setting why can't it be done on the main line.

I've always been tempted to do something a bit like what Yeoman did before privatization and have my own locomotives pulling wagons on the main line.
Even if its just repainting a loco into something imaginative.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: zwilnik on February 14, 2016, 03:03:28 PM
I did manage to find a photo once of an industrial 0-6-0 that looked remarkably similar to the Farish general purpose tank engine. According to the caption it was being moved temporarily to the Tanfield Railway near Newcastle. I've not been able to find the photo since though.

Generally speaking though, when it comes to industrial locomotives, there's pretty much a prototype for everything :)


I completely agree with this last bit. If it perfectly exceptable in an industrial setting why can't it be done on the main line.

I've always been tempted to do something a bit like what Yeoman did before privatization and have my own locomotives pulling wagons on the main line.
Even if its just repainting a loco into something imaginative.

Yup, given some of the locomotives that have been pulled back into action as temporary hires etc. It may be a case that a particular locomotive hasn't been seen on the main line in that livery *yet* but may easily do at some point in the near future.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: railsquid on February 14, 2016, 03:09:45 PM
I like to imagine what would have happened had a resurgent British Railways PLC taken advantage of EU deregulation and expanded onto the continent.
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/8/thumb_35359.jpg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=35359)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jack on February 14, 2016, 03:26:50 PM
For those whose like to let their imagination run a little wild and haven't come across this site before....

http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/index.php?sort=Aclass&liv=&class=&group=&coll= (http://www.fictitiousliveries.co.uk/index.php?sort=Aclass&liv=&class=&group=&coll=)

Some of the steamers in modern day liveries go well together. I've always fancied a 'Shed' in RfD tripe grey with Diamonds.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: BramptonBranch on February 14, 2016, 04:04:28 PM
Scale wise is the Lima centre cab any good? used as an industrial loco maybe.

I know its nothing like a Clayton!
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: sparky on February 14, 2016, 04:12:16 PM
I thought this was a thread about the dapol class 33......been in "decoration" for years it seems and appears to a fictional loco of some sort.......
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: railsquid on February 14, 2016, 10:21:34 PM
Scale wise is the Lima centre cab any good? used as an industrial loco maybe.

I know its nothing like a Clayton!
It does actually seem to be in scale (1:160 of course), I placed it next to an equivalent Fleischmann version and didn't notice any glaring differences in size.

Of course if you want to run it, it's mechanism is presumably modelled on that of a Clayton ;). In my opinion, unless you like collecting odd stuff (like me), the old Fleischmann model is much better value for money.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 15, 2016, 12:21:11 AM
One thing I've noticed with Japanese loco's is a lot of them are of different gauges (I'm not entirely sure what the gauges are),  but the models are adapted so they all run on standard gauge track. You can start making your own models by converting a narrow gauge loco or broad gauge locos and with a few adjustment's, run them on your layout. (The first thing that sprung to my mind was Irish locomotives).
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 15, 2016, 10:11:03 AM
Further to my earlier ruminations I'm going to experiment play with the idea of the Maunsell 2-6-2; I have a V2 coming and will trial fit a few bodies that should be hackable. Having previously hacked a Peco Jubilee into a Lord Nelson that could be a starting point, or maybe a Langley S15 or BHE N15 as that would make it look more like the Arthur "family". My initial thoughts go toward the Nelson look, as mentions of the proposed 2-6-2 come after the development of the Nelson, in fact some trials were carried out on Nelsons to aid decisions on the 2-6-2 and the later 4-6-2, namely the use of 6'3" wheels on 859, Lord Hood, and a larger round topped boiler on 857, Lord Howe.

Last night in bed my brain was hunting for suitable names for a "new" class being introduced in the 1930s, just about everything I thought of seemed to be too close to existing names, example cities or cathedrals, many of the names would be taken by the Schools class, Winchester, Westminster, Canterbury etc, Rivers had already been done, headlands - Marsh Atlantics, so it went on. Finally I thought I don't recall any named for composers (British ones) so how about Henry Purcell, Edward Elgar, Arthur Sullivan among others, should be able to think of enough names for a class of 10 or more - not that I intend making 10, just need enough names for any inquisitive types or others who want a fictitious 2-6-2 SR loco.

Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 15, 2016, 12:21:25 PM
I love the idea, like myself I've always been tempted to make a GWR 2-6-0 tank engine by modifying a 56xx kit and making it resemble a class 42xx. In theory it should go around tight bends quite well....
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Les1952 on February 15, 2016, 10:30:50 PM
Some interesting Ideas.
I'm taking a big leap and decided that I wanted to build a private railway like a hospital railway or colliery or something like that (haven't quite made up my mind yet). Anyway, I wanted something different so I effectively took a Japanese Bandai loco, stuck buffers on it and painted it a different colour.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

I do apologize about the poor light in my picture.

Rob.

Very like some of the Bo-Bo designs for UK Industrials.  Move the pantograph onto one bonnet and you have a passable Harton system No. 11 or 12.  Light green livery or white livery with orange angled striping..

Les
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 15, 2016, 11:08:14 PM
I'm so excited that I'm not the only one who has had this idea! I have a couple of different projects I would like to do.

One is for my fictional heritage railway, which I have been working on a fictional pre-grouping Light Railway for and I think a unique 'Preserved' locomotive to accompany the EtchedPixels coaches that will go with it would be quite nice :)

Another is for a fantasy world which I work on (write about is a bit of a stretch...). One of then stories I play around with in my world is set in the early steam era (think C. 1875 for a comparison) and I would love to model a small scene from my world one day, but that would require custom coaches and a custom locomotive!

I'm very excited to see the other projects you all start. @Dorsetmike (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2855) , your project sounds great!  Exactly the sort of thing I see you doing brilliantly :) And British Composers is a fine choice; although if they did more than a small run then you might have to recruit British painters as a bonus :) (I've noticed many classes soon outgrew the available namesakes and were forced to add other themes to the names. It would add a hint of realism to the engine's build history.)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 16, 2016, 02:44:48 AM
I'm so excited that I'm not the only one who has had this idea! I have a couple of different projects I would like to do.

One is for my fictional heritage railway, which I have been working on a fictional pre-grouping Light Railway for and I think a unique 'Preserved' locomotive to accompany the EtchedPixels coaches that will go with it would be quite nice :)

Another is for a fantasy world which I work on (write about is a bit of a stretch...). One of then stories I play around with in my world is set in the early steam era (think C. 1875 for a comparison) and I would love to model a small scene from my world one day, but that would require custom coaches and a custom locomotive!



Steampunk I believe that is; Victorian science fiction where everything is steam powered, or primitive. Very classy and very cool, I have thought about doing something similar but afraid my modelling techniques have not yet fully developed yet.

Maybe it would be a good suggestion for an area on this forum specifically for fictional creations, everything from made up locomotives, rolling stock and company designs to industrial buildings, stations and mad ideas?   :D
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 16, 2016, 01:41:17 PM
Thinking about the proposed Urie 4-8-0 I mentioned way back in this thread, does anybody know if a 4-8-0, 4-8-2 or 4-8-4 chassis  with small drivers (about 5' +/- 3") has ever been produced in N gauge? Looking at 0-8-0, 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 chassis the cylinders would need moving forward and hand/eye coordination (as I approach 82 next month ) is starting to be a challenge and valve gear mods would be a PITA. Also quite a few of the German chassis I've looked at the pistons drive onto the 3rd driver not the second, although that might be possible to change which would move the cylinders forward.

I need to find a very cheap  spares or repair to play with.

Edit; maybe a 2-10-0 and drop out the front drivers and swap pony truck for a bogie :idea:
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 16, 2016, 02:23:21 PM
Thinking about the proposed Urie 4-8-0 I mentioned way back in this thread, does anybody know if a 4-8-0, 4-8-2 or 4-8-4 chassis  with small drivers (about 5' +/- 3") has ever been produced in N gauge? Looking at 0-8-0, 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 chassis the cylinders would need moving forward and hand/eye coordination (as I approach 82 next month ) is starting to be a challenge and valve gear mods would be a PITA. Also quite a few of the German chassis I've looked at the pistons drive onto the 3rd driver not the second, although that might be possible to change which would move the cylinders forward.

I need to find a very cheap  spares or repair to play with.

Edit; maybe a 2-10-0 and drop out the front drivers and swap pony truck for a bogie :idea:


I know you said cheap, but there may be a used one easily sourced, however Dapol makes the 2884 Class (which for some idiotic reason they insist on terming the 38xx class sometimes, which is a totally different 4-4-0 GWR class...) which is a 2-8-0 with drivers that are theoretically 4' 7 1/2" (55.5"). Upon measuring, my 2884 has drivers that are 12/32" which equates to exactly 55.5" at scale, so I must say Dapol should get some credit for faithfulness!

Bachmann USA makes a 2-10-2 that might do as the drivers appear quite small. http://www.ehattons.com/91666/Bachmann_USA_83353_USRA_Light_2_10_2_Steam_Locomotive_Southern_5210/StockDetail.aspx (http://www.ehattons.com/91666/Bachmann_USA_83353_USRA_Light_2_10_2_Steam_Locomotive_Southern_5210/StockDetail.aspx) I'm sure you can find one used. Just linked to Hattons for ease. 

Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 17, 2016, 11:34:25 AM
Thinking about the proposed Urie 4-8-0 I mentioned way back in this thread, does anybody know if a 4-8-0, 4-8-2 or 4-8-4 chassis  with small drivers (about 5' +/- 3") has ever been produced in N gauge? Looking at 0-8-0, 2-8-0 and 2-8-2 chassis the cylinders would need moving forward and hand/eye coordination (as I approach 82 next month ) is starting to be a challenge and valve gear mods would be a PITA. Also quite a few of the German chassis I've looked at the pistons drive onto the 3rd driver not the second, although that might be possible to change which would move the cylinders forward.

I need to find a very cheap  spares or repair to play with.

Edit; maybe a 2-10-0 and drop out the front drivers and swap pony truck for a bogie :idea:


I know you said cheap, but there may be a used one easily sourced, however Dapol makes the 2884 Class (which for some idiotic reason they insist on terming the 38xx class sometimes, which is a totally different 4-4-0 GWR class...) which is a 2-8-0 with drivers that are theoretically 4' 7 1/2" (55.5"). Upon measuring, my 2884 has drivers that are 12/32" which equates to exactly 55.5" at scale, so I must say Dapol should get some credit for faithfulness!

Bachmann USA makes a 2-10-2 that might do as the drivers appear quite small. [url]http://www.ehattons.com/91666/Bachmann_USA_83353_USRA_Light_2_10_2_Steam_Locomotive_Southern_5210/StockDetail.aspx[/url] ([url]http://www.ehattons.com/91666/Bachmann_USA_83353_USRA_Light_2_10_2_Steam_Locomotive_Southern_5210/StockDetail.aspx[/url]) I'm sure you can find one used. Just linked to Hattons for ease.


Kato sell spare chssis, you can get an 8 coupled motorised chassis for about 32.
Although you will need to hack a few parts off.  ;)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 17, 2016, 01:38:09 PM
I've got a Minitrix 9F coming next week, so I'll see how that goes.

As for the 2-6-2, I received a V2 this morning, and the best fit is with a BHE N15 body, the Langley S15 is a fraction smaller inside and would need some metal removing for it to fit, the Jubilee body is about the same length but no room inside for a motor without some serious hacking. Have to remove a bit of metal from under the front of the boiler and smoke box to allow the chassis to be moved forward so the cylinders align with the smoke box. The rear pony truck will need some considerable "trimming" to move it forward, at the moment the wheels line up with the cab steps.

Had a thought, did new locos ever do any service trial running in "shop grey"? Would certainly save some decorating!
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: railsquid on February 17, 2016, 02:27:53 PM
Had a thought, did new locos ever do any service trial running in "shop grey"? Would certainly save some decorating!
Not sure if this helps, but I'm sure I read somewhere that at least one of the Big Four let new locomotives be filmed in unpainted (poss. shop grey) condition at they showed up better on black and white film. I'll sleep on it and see if any references pop up.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: GeeBee on February 17, 2016, 02:29:20 PM
Tornado was shown off in grey at the GCR in  2009
 :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 17, 2016, 03:53:40 PM
I do believe that when the LMS Princess Elizabeth was built it was pressed into service so quickly that firstly it was in works grey and a little latter on it was seen in pink as the undercoat had been applied.  :)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 17, 2016, 03:57:32 PM
I knew about the "photographic grey", was wondering how much - if any - service running was done.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 19, 2016, 04:30:31 PM
Got my order from NBrass this morning, so decided to do some investigation. The cab, bunker and tank sides of the G6 kit measure up a feww mm short, however they are at the edge of the etch so I cut them out keeping the edge which gives me just enough extra length. The gap was filled in with solder then filed flat.

I then took a razor saw to remove the bunker, cab and tank sides from the footplate of the M7, that's when I found out the boiler is a separate item which makes some things easier. I've now got the brass bits partway assembled, I've retained the M7 cab roof and spectacle plates, - less fiddly soldering - and glue is now setting on the join between brass and the plastic roof etc. I've been taking a few pics which I will post later.

One minor glitch, the boiler is a bit short, so I need to figure best way to extend it a bit, cab on the M7 is a bit further forward on the M7 than the T1. Then I still have to attack the bogie, wheelbase needs shortening.

Edit; found room for some more weight, so will pour some "liquid Gravity" into the space, the weight in the boiler is a smaller diameter than the boiler so there is a bit of space there
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 19, 2016, 05:12:48 PM
Got my order from NBrass this morning, so decided to do some investigation. The cab, bunker and tank sides of the G6 kit measure up a feww mm short, however they are at the edge of the etch so I cut them out keeping the edge which gives me just enough extra length. The gap was filled in with solder then filed flat.

I then took a razor saw to remove the bunker, cab and tank sides from the footplate of the M7, that's when I found out the boiler is a separate item which makes some things easier. I've now got the brass bits partway assembled, I've retained the M7 cab roof and spectacle plates, - less fiddly soldering - and glue is now setting on the join between brass and the plastic roof etc. I've been taking a few pics which I will post later.

One minor glitch, the boiler is a bit short, so I need to figure best way to extend it a bit, cab on the M7 is a bit further forward on the M7 than the T1. Then I still have to attack the bogie, wheelbase needs shortening.

Edit; found room for some more weight, so will pour some "liquid Gravity" into the space, the weight in the boiler is a smaller diameter than the boiler so there is a bit of space there


Mike,

Thank you for the update! Did you mean for this update to be here though: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=31654.msg364315#msg364315 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=31654.msg364315#msg364315)

Very exciting progress, Mike! I can't wait to see what you come up with this time! :) I always love your how-to pictures showing your process!  :greatpicturessign:
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 20, 2016, 05:06:37 PM
I knew about the "photographic grey", was wondering how much - if any - service running was done.

Sorry, I'm pretty sure it's in one of my books but as I'm moving home, my library has been packed away for now.  :(

On the other hand though, your projects sound great and i can't wait to see some pictures soon.

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 21, 2016, 06:07:40 AM
So I have been thinking about the idea of creating a fictional locomotive for my world as mentioned above and I also have been looking at getting into kit building. As a project, I am going to buy a cheap n gauge or n scale steam locomotive and get a variety of parts from N Brass or BH Lines or somewhere and start by seeing what all I can do. I may try to find an appropriate boiler and tanks and cab and replace the whole body for a mostly scratch built locomotive if I get really brave. I have placed bids on 7 locomotives of eBay (though two are for another project), so I sort of hope that I don't win them all! I do hope I end up with one or two though :) I will keep everyone in the loop if this project moves forward! :)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 21, 2016, 11:59:19 AM
Sounds good, I'm sure we will all be waiting to see what your imagination can produce.  :D

On that subjuct, I to am planning on building a GET fictitious locomotives, I'm looking at making a 4-6-0, outside cylinder tender loco with freight wheels and a parallel boiler.
If you know GWR locomotives relatively well then it should be pretty easy to imagine what will be made.

I already have a spare GP Chassis to start with. I just need to source out some valve gear.

Any suggestions?

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 21, 2016, 12:43:30 PM
If it's to be GWR inspired then it doesn't need complex valve gear, just the bit from the piston to the driven wheel, look at any GWR 4-6-0, no Walschearts or other complications. It's only when you get to proper railway companies  :whistle:  that you find outside gear.

If you want a good 4-6-0 chassis with smallish wheels (10.8 diam scales 5'3") then the Fleischmann 7160, 7161, 7162 etc is a good start, you can either use its 8 wheel tender drive or a Union Mills drive if you want a 6 wheeler. You can keep the valve gear or carefully trim it off.

Brass tube for a parallel boiler, if you want a round topped firebox, cut a "T" shaped slot in the bottom half of one end of the tube and open it out, Belpaire cut from sheet brass and bend over end of boiler and use modelling putty or some other filler to shape the front of it.

Boiler bands, I use a lathe to turn and remove a few thou between the smoke box and boiler bands, leaving smoke box and boiler bands unturned, I've also seen very thin plastic strip fixed round the boiler, and for smokebox a wrapper of brass shim.

If you're building in brass and soldering, assembling the cab can be fun - not! Problem being you can solder a cab side to the floor, roof or front no problem, until you try and add the next piece when the solder from the first join will melt. The solution is to have a variable temperature soldering iron and a number of different melting point solders, do the first join with the highest MP solder, turn down the iron temp to that of the next highest MP, solder the next join, repeat  turning down iron and using next MP solder, when you run out of solders use glue, or you could use glue all the way, the reason I solder as much as possible is that most glues that will stick metal will leave a fillet, so if I need to use glue on a cab it will be for the roof as that will be least visible when complete. Using heat sinks in N gauge can be a bit iffy as you can't often get sufficient surface area to place one.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 21, 2016, 01:02:45 PM
That all sounds terribly complicated, thank God that there was at least one non propper company that kept everything simple so making models of them easy.
On a proper note though, thank you for the advice, i''ll probably try a few experiments to see what is best firstly and then I'll move forward from there.

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 21, 2016, 02:00:10 PM
Quote
kept everything simple so making models of them easy.

Probably why there are so many of them available RTR compared to other companies.  ::)

Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 25, 2016, 04:00:04 PM
Picked this up on eBay. Going to order some new bits for it and try to give it a bit of a makeover. I've gotten an airbrush today for my birthday, so in my eagerness to try it out, I may strip and paint the body and then modify it later and repaint it again then! I'm looking to give it an English feel, so I am going to order a chimney, dome, safety valve, whistle, a new smokebox door, steam pipes, couplings and buffers and fit them as I feel is appropriate. Before I do an order, I am going to do a little research and make sure there isn't a kit I could bash and make into something a little more prototypical, but for now I'm enjoying the idea of a 'custom' engine.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

More updates as progress comes :) (I seem likely to win another American engine on eBay today that will meet the same fate, but more on that later....)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: GeeBee on February 25, 2016, 04:14:58 PM
Picked this up on eBay. Going to order some new bits for it and try to give it a bit of a makeover. I've gotten an airbrush today for my birthday, so in my eagerness to try it out, I may strip and paint the body and then modify it later and repaint it again then! I'm looking to give it an English feel, so I am going to order a chimney, dome, safety valve, whistle, a new smokebox door, steam pipes, couplings and buffers and fit them as I feel is appropriate. Before I do an order, I am going to do a little research and make sure there isn't a kit I could bash and make into something a little more prototypical, but for now I'm enjoying the idea of a 'custom' engine.

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

More updates as progress comes :) (I seem likely to win another American engine on eBay today that will meet the same fate, but more on that later....)

Happy Birthday
Have fun
Graham
 :beers:
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: zwilnik on February 25, 2016, 04:17:36 PM
Happy Birthday :) It's worth checking to see how the dome that's on the model is moulded. If it's not hollow (or not particularly hollow) you might be able to file it into a more British shape even if you have to use a little Milliput as filler.

Probably the other thing that'll give it a more English feel is shortening the cab up a little. Tricky with that ballast weight over the motor there, but it looks feasible. You could chop some away from the front and rebuild with plasticard or brass.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 25, 2016, 04:37:56 PM
Happy Birthday :) It's worth checking to see how the dome that's on the model is moulded. If it's not hollow (or not particularly hollow) you might be able to file it into a more British shape even if you have to use a little Milliput as filler.

Probably the other thing that'll give it a more English feel is shortening the cab up a little. Tricky with that ballast weight over the motor there, but it looks feasible. You could chop some away from the front and rebuild with plasticard or brass.

Thanks for the birthday wishes, guys :)

As for the, dome, I hadn't thought of doing that. The dome and safety valve are both somewhat hollow, so I'm not sure how much I'll be able to remove, but the plastic seems thick enough that I may be able to sand/file some away. :) as for the cab, it bothers me a little too and I was on the fence about whether to order a set of cab sides as well, but now I'll almost certainly pick up a pair and see about fitting them. The worst case scenario in all of this is that I end up with extra parts to play with on future projects :)

Thanks as always for the great advice :)
 
Speaking of customizing this locomotive....

My dad has two CNC routers that he keeps wanting me to learn how to design things for. Now I'm very tempted to draw up a set of tanks and a boiler I can form (with the underside partially cut out to fit the motor) and have him cut them out of brass....
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: zwilnik on February 25, 2016, 04:58:42 PM
The new cab would be an ideal first project for a CNC router as they're basically flat sections.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Dorsetmike on February 25, 2016, 05:19:32 PM
Main problem I find trying to hack American or continental and some Japanese chassis is the size of motor that fills the cab; one reason I usually look for something with a tender drive, or that I can put a Union Mills tender drive into.

Admittedly I've not looked at any recent models to see if they have moved over to smaller motors.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: Jollybob on February 25, 2016, 06:21:07 PM
An interesting plan, it will be great to see the pictures once it's finished.
Also, I would remove the steps by the buffers at the front and rear of the loco and maybe see if it is possible to put in a new set along the running plate, somewhere towards the front.  :)

Rob.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 25, 2016, 07:15:03 PM
An interesting plan, it will be great to see the pictures once it's finished.
Also, I would remove the steps by the buffers at the front and rear of the loco and maybe see if it is possible to put in a new set along the running plate, somewhere towards the front.  :)

Rob.

I meant to add steps to my list as well. I think I had them on and then removed them for some reason. I've been tinkering with the body a little and have removed some of the pieces I know I want gone and shaved down the dome and safety valve a little. I need a tiny file (actually, I need a set), so I'm going to stop for now and go get one (or a set) and try a little more later. I still want to order and replace most or all of the parts listed, but I thought it would be a fun project to start tinkering with the body now. A couple of pictures if anyone is interested:

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: OwL on February 25, 2016, 09:26:29 PM
Here is my offering, a fictcious Class 60 livery:

(http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/OWL729/Mobile%20Uploads/CB73EEA2-95F5-4F7B-90BE-4C0E4EA6B9CE_zpst4vffjxp.jpg) (http://s869.photobucket.com/user/OWL729/media/Mobile%20Uploads/CB73EEA2-95F5-4F7B-90BE-4C0E4EA6B9CE_zpst4vffjxp.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: N-Gauge-US on February 25, 2016, 09:39:23 PM
Here is my offering, a fictcious Class 60 livery:

([url]http://i869.photobucket.com/albums/ab256/OWL729/Mobile%20Uploads/CB73EEA2-95F5-4F7B-90BE-4C0E4EA6B9CE_zpst4vffjxp.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s869.photobucket.com/user/OWL729/media/Mobile%20Uploads/CB73EEA2-95F5-4F7B-90BE-4C0E4EA6B9CE_zpst4vffjxp.jpg.html[/url])


Beautiful! Very nicely done :)
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: 37214 on April 17, 2017, 12:42:41 PM
Apologies for resurrecting an old thread; about 25 years ago I acquired a cheap Farish Deltic from a toy fair to practice repainting and detailing on. I repainted it in BR Large Logo blue livery with yellow ends and cab sides with Highland rail stag transfers and large white numbers as a "what if". I took it along to a friends' model club one evening to give it a run out and it didn't go down well with the purists......
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: daffy on April 17, 2017, 01:09:01 PM
Well, there's more to life than purity. Having fun ranks higher in my world.

That's my Rule I. Always. :thumbsup:

Sometimes that fun means a pursuit of accuracy, sometimes it doesn't.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: steve836 on April 17, 2017, 08:08:57 PM


Had a thought, did new locos ever do any service trial running in "shop grey"? Would certainly save some decorating!

As far as i know GER's "decapod" only ever ran in grey. The GER also ran a loco for some time in grey primer, and it was given the soubriquet "dolly grey". It was, by the way the record holder for the fastest ever building of a locomotive, being built and entering service in under 8 hrs. The reason it ran in grey primer was that an earlier attempt was claimed to be defective because they took it into shops for a paint job after a couple of days so this time it didn,t get its proper livery until the due date for an overhaul.
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: martyn on April 17, 2017, 09:01:43 PM
A number of GER locos ran in shop grey for considerable periods after WW1 as the previous Royal Blue was not available. I can't find reference quickly, but this practice may have lasted until early LNER days. The GNR also painted locos in shop grey during WW!.
'Dolly Grey' was a 440 rebuild to what was later LNER class D13 from a T19 240 (done by the GER).
I think-but can't find quick reference-that most GER locos, and probably those from other companies, ran at least a trial trip, and possibly a longer running in period, in shop grey and didn't get a full coat of paint until completing this period.
HTH
Martyn
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: steve836 on April 18, 2017, 07:39:16 AM
You're right Martyn-- I was getting a bit confused. I have checked  Cecil J Allen's book "The Great Eastern Railway" and found the references:- Dolly Grey is on page 108, the tale of the fastest loco built (No. 930) is on page 110 and the reference to GER locos running in grey post WW1 is on page 203.
I thought the explanation of no 930 (a Y14 0-6-0) running in grey was here but it isn't but I know I have read it somewhere!
Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: martyn on April 18, 2017, 08:15:29 AM
Just had another thought; didn't the SECR run in grey around WW1 as well?

I think others may have done also-I can't find references easily to hand.

Steve836-no problem, its nice to hear from another GER follower.

Martyn

Title: Re: Fictitious Locomotives?
Post by: martyn on April 19, 2017, 02:52:55 PM
The RCTS history of the LNER locos states that the GER-style grey livery with LNER numbers was applied by Stratford 'for several years' with the last loco so painted disappearing in 1932.
Don't forget the LNER 'Hush Hush' No.10000 W1 4-6-4 ran in grey with steel trims.

Martyn
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