N Gauge Forum

Your Layout and Models => On My Workbench => Topic started by: Dr Al on April 12, 2015, 09:46:12 PM

Title: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on April 12, 2015, 09:46:12 PM
Hi,

As well as Atso's L1, I've also started on a K3 3D print. Nothing done to the print yet other than a dusting of primer, but have got the chassis complete to first order.

Uses a Farish B1 with the cylinder block moved back (dremelled out lump of chassis block to do this) and Farish Crab eccentric rods and hangers, Farish prairie connecting rods.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=23963)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=23964)

Front bogie is front Farish Prairie also, with Dapol A4 wheels. This needs more tweaking but shouild work ok.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Roy L S on April 12, 2015, 09:49:23 PM
Very neatly done Alan, I look forward to seeing another fine loco in due course!

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Newportnobby on April 12, 2015, 09:54:05 PM
Looks like another excellent build in progress, Alan.
It just makes me wonder where on earth you manage to get all the 'bits' from as it's stuff not many of us would have lying around.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on April 12, 2015, 09:56:41 PM
Looks like another excellent build in progress, Alan.
It just makes me wonder where on earth you manage to get all the 'bits' from as it's stuff not many of us would have lying around.

After 18 years of N gauge modelling you accumulate some amount of parts - I keep everything - and in this case had a scrap Crab central wheel in this instance, which donated it's valve gear to this project.

I suspect you could get such a part from BR Lines though.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on April 12, 2015, 11:19:26 PM
Looks great Alan!  8) Lovely work on the valve gear, did you shorten the chassis weight as well?
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on April 12, 2015, 11:22:03 PM
Looks great Alan!  8) Lovely work on the valve gear, did you shorten the chassis weight as well?

No it's untouched. It neatly locks into the smokebox, just as though it was meant to be.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on April 12, 2015, 11:28:07 PM
No it's untouched. It neatly locks into the smokebox, just as though it was meant to be.

Sounds like the B1 had a useful design throwback to the old Farish V2 then! I can't continue to get this lucky whenever people decide to use chassis that my 3D printed bodies weren't designed for!  :P

Can't wait to start mine now, although it'll be using mainly 3MT valve gear spares as previously discussed (fingers crossed!).
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on April 12, 2015, 11:31:14 PM
Sounds like the B1 had a useful design throwback to the old Farish V2 then! I can't continue to get this lucky whenever people decide to use chassis that my 3D printed bodies weren't designed for!  :P

Can't wait to start mine now, although it'll be using mainly 3MT valve gear spares as previously discussed (fingers crossed!).

It is uncanny how well it works - locks in, perfect positioning and holds body on ok. Once the cab is built up at back a screw will hold it rigid. The loco sits nice and low aswell, which is something I'm particularly happy about - N gauge locos up on stilts (all too common) ruin their appearance IMHO.

Hardest bit of this conversion is hacking out the space for the cylinders to sit in - required a fair bit of dremelling.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on April 12, 2015, 11:42:54 PM
Yes, locomotive bodies sitting high on the chassis is a pet peeve of mine too! The K3 may eventually have a redesign to provide a cab and screw arrangement for anyone else wanting to go down the B1 conversion route.

I've got a fretting machine somewhere so hopefully that can be employed to 'cut out' some of the dremel work!  :smiley-laughing:

How have you secured the bogie? I'm planning to use a spare 3MT bogie (all parts salvaged from my N2 conversion) but I'll need to make a new mounting point for it.

You might be interested in this little bit of exploring I did today  ;)

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/2015-04-12%2023.37.15_zpsolrgrgwq.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/2015-04-12%2023.37.15_zpsolrgrgwq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on April 12, 2015, 11:47:37 PM
How have you secured the bogie? I'm planning to use a spare 3MT bogie (all parts salvaged from my N2 conversion) but I'll need to make a new mounting point for it.


It's just attached with the standard B1 screw. But the bogie hole is way too large so will need plated over and redrilled to remove slop. Should work fine.

([url]http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/2015-04-12%2023.37.15_zpsolrgrgwq.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/2015-04-12%2023.37.15_zpsolrgrgwq.jpg.html[/url])


Very interested.....the V1/V3 is one I'd jump at getting hold of!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on April 16, 2015, 01:40:04 PM
An alternative to the Fariburn as a Donor for the V1...

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04-16%2013.36.27_zpsscfhjkbq.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-04-16%2013.36.27_zpsscfhjkbq.jpg.html)
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on April 16, 2015, 01:46:43 PM
An alternative to the Fariburn as a Donor for the V1...

Both are close, though neither has quite the right wheel spacing (i.e. they are equal rather than having the central drivers forward - for the more insane of us the Farish B1/V2 chassis combination is probably the closest here!  :D  :D

The side tanks would need to be trimmed back on the 3MT - ok the body would go, but beneath it there is solid chassis which extends into the side tanks, which would have to be dremelled off - therefore the Stanier might be easier.

Are you actually seriously considering a V1?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on April 16, 2015, 02:04:20 PM
Hi Alan,

Yes, I'm seriously considering a V1. Its been on my to do list as a personal project for some time - ever since I found out one was allocated to Kings X for a year in 1930!

The 3MT chassis weight is actually separate to the chassis block while the Fairburn's is integral so I think the 3MT may well lend itself better to this.

The V2 chassis idea has merit but you'll need a new motor, wheels, weight and some serious modification to the chassis block (as per your V2s) so the 3MT might be the better bet.

For my own V2, I plan on swapping the cylinders, slide bar and crossheads with the B1s (the 3MT parts will be donated towards the rebuild of my K2!). I've also come up with a possible method of extending the rear part of the wheelbase of the 3MT which I have sent you in a PM.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on June 28, 2015, 12:17:42 AM
Well, some more progress finally made, and I know Steve is eager to see it!

All the details have now gone on, cab interior built up from plasticard and a heavily modified Farish V2 footplate and boiler backhead. A number of the detail parts have come from N Brass castings tree for the K3, which I frankly forgot I had. The cast safety valves for instance should be more robust than the 3D printed ones. Needs now a good clean up, front steps are coming off and be redone as I'm not happy with them, but otherwise most of the hard bits are now done.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26426)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26428)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26427)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26425)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on June 28, 2015, 09:08:49 AM
Alan, that looks incredible! I really like the fact you've managed to drill out the front of the cab to take the handrails. This is something I didn't do on the CAD (after much thought) due to the weakness it would put on the model during the printing process - good to see it can be done!  8)

The cab interior looks great and interesting it see you solution for attaching the rear of the loco. That looks like a V2 insulation spacer under the cab floor, did you add a nut or is the screw simply screwed directly into the floor?

Anyway, that's looking every bit a K3 now and I really must get on with my K2s and K3s using this conversion method!

Now hurry up and slap some paint on it!  :P
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on June 28, 2015, 11:23:22 AM
The cab interior looks great and interesting it see you solution for attaching the rear of the loco. That looks like a V2 insulation spacer under the cab floor, did you add a nut or is the screw simply screwed directly into the floor?

No, it only uses the V2 backhead and plasticard. The black area is B1 chassis, and the V2 part was drilled to directly accept the bolt. Gives a solid but removable attachment, with the front end being held by the standard B1 chassis weight

Question - have you any advice on repairing bits of 3D print that have come off? In particular it's lost a small part of the footplate on the cabside (see pic1, directly below the centre of the cabside handrail).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on June 28, 2015, 11:29:44 AM
Thanks Alan.

Re repairs, I've been successful in the past supergluing 0.25mm plastic card (rod) to the footplate and re-profiling once completely dry. You'll need to ensure that all the paint is removed from the area that you want to apply glue to and use a piece of 0.2-0.3mm wire to apply the glue (otherwise it gets everywhere!). Alternatively, make a small profile piece using plastic card and profile using the tiniest amount of Milliput. Neither is easy but can be done.

HTH
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Newportnobby on June 28, 2015, 11:59:16 AM
Very nice work, both. It's looking the dogs doo-dahs :thumbsup:
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on June 28, 2015, 11:12:30 PM
You can have it in any colour you like, as long as it's black.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26484)

Also, cylinder draincocks added, and valve guides, and front wheelset rim painted. I fixed the damaged footplate with microstrip.

Getting close now, but out of decal lining so that will prevent further immediate progress.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Ditape on June 28, 2015, 11:42:56 PM
I am not a LNER fan but that looks really good to me.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on June 29, 2015, 09:45:16 AM
Looks great Alan, well done on the repair!
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: paulprice on June 29, 2015, 09:45:28 AM
Let me make it clear I am not turning to the LNER side, but that looks like a very good model to me
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on June 29, 2015, 10:15:42 AM
Let me make it clear I am not turning to the LNER side, but that looks like a very good model to me

...slowly being converted...  >:D >:D >:D
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: paulprice on June 29, 2015, 10:32:47 AM
NEVER NEVER NEVER, next time my Layout is out at Exhibition come down and see if you can see any stock other the LMS, apart from the possible J39 and V2
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 01, 2015, 12:35:13 AM
A cruel overexposure shows tonight's progress. Lining looks heavy, but still needs it's black central dividing transfers applying. That is a job for next time (as is the base of the tender and some bits on the other side!).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26599)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Jonny on July 01, 2015, 06:50:50 AM
Absolutely amazing work.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: paulprice on July 01, 2015, 07:09:11 AM
A cruel overexposure shows tonight's progress. Lining looks heavy, but still needs it's black central dividing transfers applying. That is a job for next time (as is the base of the tender and some bits on the other side!).

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26599[/url])

Cheers,
Alan


Stunning, totally stunning
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 01, 2015, 09:06:22 AM
Just incredible Alan, you've captured the look of the K3 to a tee!  8)
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 01, 2015, 09:26:36 AM
Having compared my K3, built with a modified version of the originally intended V2 chassis, you can really see that difference in the rear part of the coupled wheelbase. That extra 1.5mm length really makes a big visual difference. If I needed any more encouragement to build at least one more using this method, I think I got it!

Actually, I'd like to build three, one for each of the original designs, GNR style cab, NER style cab (both right hand drive) and as per the print in GS form. Luckily all can use the various Farish tender tops supplied with the J39 (unfortunately the B1 tender top is the much later type and I haven't seen one attached to this class).

It occurs to me that this method could also make up a respectable K2, another one to revisit the in future I think!

Well done sir!
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Jonny on July 01, 2015, 09:30:10 AM
I can see me building one of these now.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 01, 2015, 09:35:45 AM
Having compared my K3, built with a modified version of the originally intended V2 chassis, you can really see that difference in the rear part of the coupled wheelbase. That extra 1.5mm length really makes a big visual difference. If I needed any more encouragement to build at least one more using this method, I think I got it!

To me the big difference (and one I aim to avoid as it ruins many N gauge kitbuilt models) is that the V2 based model's body sits way too high - it's a bit up on stilts.

My aim was to get the body down low, as close to matching up with the tender footplate as was viable.

To me the wheel spacing is secondary to this as the first thing that stands out to me.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 01, 2015, 09:36:48 AM
I can see me building one of these now.

I'll happily claim any commission on sales Steve generates after seeing mine  :P  :P  :P  :P

Cheers,
Al
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 01, 2015, 10:19:59 AM
I'll happily claim any commission on sales Steve generates after seeing mine  :P  :P  :P  :P

Hate to tell you, but I've had a B1 in bits for several years pending me actually getting on with this!  :P :P :P Thanks for proving the concept though (I might throw a certain loco body your way at some point)!  ;) As for sales, I can't see me wanting to file down and fettle several chassis and valve gear (one or the other maybe!), although I might have a solution to this...

Some modest investigation suggests that the boss on the back of modern Dapol and Farish wheels are nominally the same size. Maybe this opens up the possibility of a Dapol B1 conversion for those wanting loco drive, or even for some other classes sharing that coupled wheelbase? I would have thought that a suitable 20 tooth gear would have to be found to fit a Farish Fairburn wheelset though (plus the dread of having to take Farish wheels off their axles and get them back on again!) - I haven't checked but I doubt that Farish and Dapol use the same MOD size for gears.

Will have to investigate further but need to tidy up from building a signal box. OT but believe it or not, I found some baseboards and the start of track laying when I started this last night!   :o :o :o
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Newportnobby on July 01, 2015, 10:30:40 AM

Stunning, totally stunning

Wot he said. I stand (or at least sit) in awe, Alan :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 01, 2015, 10:47:44 AM

Stunning, totally stunning

Wot he said. I stand (or at least sit) in awe, Alan :goggleeyes:

Completely agree!
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 01, 2015, 11:25:49 PM
Tonight's progress might not look much different, but all the black central lining is now done, apart from the loco footplates. Other side of the loco finished out too apart from this and one RA number.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26645)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26644)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: R Marshall on July 02, 2015, 12:11:20 AM
Very Nice!
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 02, 2015, 09:12:31 AM
Tonight's progress might not look much different, but all the black central lining is now done, apart from the loco footplates. Other side of the loco finished out too apart from this and one RA number

Looks great Alan! The cream lining is next?  :D (I'll get my coat!  :-[)
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: paulprice on July 02, 2015, 09:13:51 AM
Tonight's progress might not look much different, but all the black central lining is now done, apart from the loco footplates. Other side of the loco finished out too apart from this and one RA number.

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26645[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26644[/url])

Cheers,
Alan


Im lost for words, BR lined black.............. I suppose one or two additions to my fleet would not hurt, of course just in case a friend needs to borrow a loco
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Jonny on July 02, 2015, 09:45:13 AM
I definitely feel a lner lined one coming on now

Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Jonny on July 02, 2015, 10:04:56 AM
I definitely feel a lner lined one coming on now

Picked up a dapol b1 for next to nothing yesterday. 
Now do I keep it as b1 or convert
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 02, 2015, 10:20:53 AM
I definitely feel a lner lined one coming on now

Picked up a dapol b1 for next to nothing yesterday. 
Now do I keep it as b1 or convert

Hi Jon, if you're looking to use the Dapol B1 for a K3 then you'll really need a wheel swap. The Farish B1's driving wheels scale out at about 5'10 (against the K3's 5'8) while the Dapol B1 is slightly over (I think) the prototypes 6'2 drivers. Most certainly the Dapol B1s wheels are bigger than the Farish equivalent. Most of my cheap Dapol B1's are in the process of being turned into various tender driven 4-4-0s due to the lovely 9' wheelbase are the back end.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Jonny on July 02, 2015, 11:01:48 AM
Cheers for that Steve.

I may  just line it out as a lner b1 then

What are these 4-4-0's you talk about
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 02, 2015, 11:37:05 AM
Cheers for that Steve.

I may  just line it out as a lner b1 then

What are these 4-4-0's you talk about


No problem Jonny, once the Dapol Grange comes out it might be possible to do a wheel swap with that to get closer to scale driving wheels.

My two, long term, projects are some D2s and a D16/3 (since released by Union Mills). Both use chopped up B1 loco chassis minus the worm gears which is still a bit of a squeeze into these bodies. It could be possible to use the Dapol drive arrangement of tender mounted motor driving the loco's driving wheels but all of my cheap B1s have shown a tendency to slip their gears which apparently is a weakness in the design (I believe Dr Al has a fix for this and maybe he'd show us how he does it one day). I've currently got no cab detail in any of these but this might be possible with some more chopping up of the chassis.

A rather old picture of where I was before I damaged the Shapeways bodies (still to print replacements):

(http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k481/Atso-Cad/08ddffb5-cc73-47d4-a4c2-c3fee52cf841_zpsa53c80f1.jpg) (http://s1112.photobucket.com/user/Atso-Cad/media/08ddffb5-cc73-47d4-a4c2-c3fee52cf841_zpsa53c80f1.jpg.html)

The D16/3 has been retrofitted with Dapol A3 driving wheels while the D2 (from memory) was a little too tight in clearances to do this. The D2s may well make a reappearance in my own thread in the not too distant future.

A quick look through my references show that the following LNER 4-4-0s had a 9' coupled wheelbase:

GNR:
D1, D2

GCR:
D5, D6

GER:
D14, D15, D16 (all variants of the same basic class i.e. rebuilds, etc)

NBR:
D27, D28, D31

I have no idea if the B1 chassis could be used for any of the GCR or NBR classes as I don't have drawings but the coupled wheelbase is correct.

Sorry for hijacking Alan's awesome K3 thread!
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Jonny on July 02, 2015, 12:12:45 PM
Lovely looking 4-4-0's

I'll check the nbr wheel Base measurements

Cheers

Jon
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 04, 2015, 01:17:50 AM
This one's getting close now, lining all but done, just the final finishing to complete.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26715)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26716)

The footplate lining was a particular challenge as the broad curves under the cab and above the slide bars had to be formed from straight decals, and the front end of course has the fiddly little bit of lining. Copious amounts of decal softening solution was the only way to get these done successfully.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Newportnobby on July 04, 2015, 12:44:27 PM
Wonderful! :heart2:
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Roy L S on July 04, 2015, 02:47:27 PM
Superb job as always Alan,

After all that hard work, sod's law Bachmann will now announce one RTR!

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: DCCDave on July 04, 2015, 03:29:31 PM
sod's law Bachmann will now announce one RTR!

I wish...
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 05, 2015, 07:02:43 PM
This one's all but complete now after final varnishing.

Has fought me a bit at times which is why the L1 bought at the same time was completed first. Overall happy with the result, a few minor bits may come in for attention in future.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26799)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26798)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26800)

Now, what challenge will Atso-cad offer me next.....  :)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Newportnobby on July 05, 2015, 09:21:49 PM


Now, what challenge will Atso-cad offer me next.....  :)

Cheers,
Alan

Probably to do one for him, Alan :laugh:
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 05, 2015, 10:24:23 PM
A couple of additionals now I've trimmed back the front cylinder draincocks, painted the safety valves and some cab detail.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26805)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=26806)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: CarriageShed on July 05, 2015, 10:31:34 PM
Absolutely wonderful levels of detail, plus a great paint job and lining. I don't even do LNER but I'd be pleased to have it running on my layout.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 06, 2015, 10:12:43 AM
Absolutely wonderful levels of detail, plus a great paint job and lining. I don't even do LNER but I'd be pleased to have it running on my layout.

Go on Peter, you know it makes sense!  ;)

Alan, stop posting! Everytime I think that the K3 can't possibly get any better you go and add another level to it!  8)

As to what challenges I can offer next, you'll have to wait an see. I still need to be able to access the SECR 'H' class files before I get lynched on here! (Problem with using a different version of the software while on holiday - lesson learnt!).
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: CarriageShed on July 06, 2015, 10:24:30 AM
Go on Peter, you know it makes sense!  ;)

As to what challenges I can offer next, you'll have to wait an see. I still need to be able to access the SECR 'H' class files before I get lynched on here! (Problem with using a different version of the software while on holiday - lesson learnt!).

Nooooo! It makes absolutely no sense when I'm running an SR/S&DJR layout that provides 'a taste' of Bournemouth West and Evercreech Junction  :D

When you produce that H class you'll really have me drooling... or how about producing a production watercart tender... or an S&D 'Scottie'... or, or... Hmm... I'll shut up now.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 06, 2015, 11:34:36 AM
Alan, stop posting! Everytime I think that the K3 can't possibly get any better you go and add another level to it!  8)

Pretty much done now, though I'd like to add cab window glazing and perhaps cab doors.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Stevie DC on July 06, 2015, 12:26:10 PM
Pretty much done now, though I'd like to add cab window glazing and paerhaps cab doors.

I'm amazed you've not added the teak framing to the windows  ;) - something I'm thinking about adding to future models.
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: paulprice on July 06, 2015, 05:26:05 PM
wow I have been away for a few days and in that time you still manage to improve this model even further, WOW
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: R Marshall on July 07, 2015, 11:57:57 PM
Very nice finish - had me looking at some of my locos to see whether there was scope for picking out backhead detail!
Title: Re: AtsoCad LNER Gresley K3 2-6-0
Post by: Dr Al on July 11, 2015, 01:27:26 PM
And finally, to round off, here is a little corner of the world that's purely Atso based.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27006)

Now..... for something completely different.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Dr Al on July 11, 2015, 03:44:14 PM
So for something completely different.

It's often seen nowadays that folks do very little modelling, in some cases with the fear of damaging a new model. I've had this little project idea for a while, so thought I'd share it to show that you can achieve something unique without too much effort - an ideal starter.

The start point was a cheap new class 31 in blue from Farish. New tool model, so send the fear-of-damage-ometer up a few notches.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27012)

My intention was to change the identity and do a few minor tweaks to this to become 31283, an oddity in the class 31 fleet on having large logo style numbers:
http://www.wnxx.com/images/scrap/index.php?level=picture&id=1874 (http://www.wnxx.com/images/scrap/index.php?level=picture&id=1874)

Also, I had the Lima OO model of this as a child so it's nice to finally resurrect it in N.

Starting point is to remove the original numbers. Gentle rubbing with the blunt end of a scalpel will take off the factory printing, and with care you have completely clean undamaged underlying paint. A rub over with Microsol takes off any last remnants:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27016)

New numbers can then be prepared from waterslide decals (Fox in this case). The Farish finish is satin enough that you can get away without needing a gloss finish to ensure no silvering of the decals, but use of decal softening solution can help ensure this (Microsol):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27017)

And going on:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27018)

Front end needs a few changes - the project loco had red bufferbeams, so while the decals are setting:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27019)

becomes, with addition of a coupling hook to help populate the area:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27020)

Another small upgrade is to paint the visible areas of the pickups (not too bad on the 31 but more prominant on other Farish locos):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27021)

becoming:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27022)

And that's it. Reassemble the model and you have a quick conversion to something different:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27013)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27014)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27015)

All in all this took in total just one hours work. Really the decals should be sealed with vanish, but this is offputting to newcomers, and you can generally get away without if careful (I will do it at some point). So it's worth considering having a go if you never have.

There's plenty more I may do to this including the more awkward cantrail line, some weathering, but already it's fit to use.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Stevie DC on July 11, 2015, 03:53:16 PM
Great 'kwiki' project there Alan.  8) I'm sure that you will be tackling the cantrail in the future (you're just that kinda modeller!) but nice to see what can be done...

Now where are those two A3's I need to rename/renumber....  :hmmm:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Newportnobby on July 11, 2015, 04:41:15 PM
Very good 'how to', Alan. Thank you.
How do you keep the numbering on the level when, like me, you have hay fever and the old eyes are a bit 'squinty'?
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Dr Al on July 11, 2015, 05:00:26 PM
How do you keep the numbering on the level when, like me, you have hay fever and the old eyes are a bit 'squinty'?

I do it by eye nobby, but you could place a piece of masking tape along the lower edge of where you intend the numbering to go and use that to align each individual digit.

HTH,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: apollo45115 on July 17, 2015, 10:27:11 AM
Very nicely done. Funnily enough it's on my to do list -  just waiting and hoping the 31 price comes down a bit. I remember seeing it a few times at treeton Junction as a child. And yes, I really wanted that Lima model. Couldn't complain though, I ended up with two blue and a dutch liveried one! I was very lucky, doing those chores paid off.

Carl
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Gordini5 on July 21, 2015, 10:56:16 PM
How do you find the time Dr Al?

The K3 is just awesome in how you have amassed and assembled the parts. Superb modelling and the 31, you make it look so simple.

What's next on the workbench? :drool:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Dr Al on July 21, 2015, 11:21:08 PM
How do you find the time Dr Al?

The K3 is just awesome in how you have amassed and assembled the parts. Superb modelling and the 31, you make it look so simple.

To be honest I didn't spend so much time on any of these - indeed the 31 was an exercise in how much can be done in a very short time. A lot of time was spent away from these projects when a hard bit was reached - do something else and come back to it afresh where a solution will invariably present itself. The most intense sessions were the decalling of the K3 - about 5 hours was spent on this over a couple of evenings.

What's next on the workbench? :drool:

Playing at the moment with weathering on some old duffers as tests, as the 31 just doesn't look right that clean! Got a recipe going now, so it'll be facing up to the pointy end of the airbrush soon.

Beyond that I'm hoping to complete another quick project soon, once the nameplates arrive - backdating a Farish 60163 A1 Tornado in BR blue to an A1 in this livery as it would have been in BR days in the early 1950s.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Dr Al on July 21, 2015, 11:52:40 PM
Very nicely done. Funnily enough it's on my to do list -  just waiting and hoping the 31 price comes down a bit. I remember seeing it a few times at treeton Junction as a child.

Did seem to be a loco that donned some odd variations on BR blue - as well as this large logo it also had a high level white stripe at one point before it got the large numbers:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/d210bob/6626473871/ (https://www.flickr.com/photos/d210bob/6626473871/)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: R Marshall on July 22, 2015, 09:38:24 AM
How do you find the time Dr Al?

The K3 is just awesome in how you have amassed and assembled the parts. Superb modelling and the 31, you make it look so simple.

To be honest I didn't spend so much time on any of these - indeed the 31 was an exercise in how much can be done in a very short time. A lot of time was spent away from these projects when a hard bit was reached - do something else and come back to it afresh where a solution will invariably present itself. The most intense sessions were the decalling of the K3 - about 5 hours was spent on this over a couple of evenings.

What's next on the workbench? :drool:

Playing at the moment with weathering on some old duffers as tests, as the 31 just doesn't look right that clean! Got a recipe going now, so it'll be facing up to the pointy end of the airbrush soon.

Beyond that I'm hoping to complete another quick project soon, once the nameplates arrive - backdating a Farish 60163 A1 Tornado in BR blue to an A1 in this livery as it would have been in BR days in the early 1950s.

Cheers,
Alan

Look forward to seeing that A1 - they (and the A4s) suited the blue livery, I reckon.

Got a little video clip (shaky - on my phone) of 60163 in that livery if:

a) it's any good to you;

b) I can post it here?
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Newportnobby on July 22, 2015, 10:17:40 AM
As seen at the Great Gathering of A4s at York.............

(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: Dr Al on July 22, 2015, 10:23:25 AM
By the sounds of it this conversion could be of interest to quite a few of you! Needs a little more than a simple renumber of Tornado though. I do like the BR blue - it and the crimson are a bit more vibrant than Brunswick green.

Always interested to see the vid and pics - thanks folks!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now what can be done in an hour? Class 31
Post by: R Marshall on July 22, 2015, 11:47:23 AM
Sorry, video file too big at 39.5mb, apparently, and the file extension (AVI) isn't recognised.

Adding something unrelated by way of compensation.(Sorry, but you are not allowed to access the gallery)

Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Backdating "Tornado"...
Post by: Dr Al on July 23, 2015, 11:46:17 PM
New quick project.

Starting point is a standard Farish A1 60163 "Tornado" in blue. I've always liked the early shortlived BR blue, but want an A1 in BR days condition. This requires a bit of backdating to remove the modern features of "Tornado".

The initial model (with some detail bits fitted already, like the draincocks, cab doors):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27464)

The tender is the big problem. Tornado has had it's water space extended into the tender well, as well as having the coal space shortened to give more water capacity also. Neither of these are authentic to the original so need backdating:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27470)

The first step was to swap the spoked tender wheels with a set of discs. Most A1s had discs, but the last two had spokes. I just didn't fancy their names! Thanks to Atso for doing a straight swap for me.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27471)

Next is to get rid of electrification warning flashes. There are only 4 on the loco, two on the front frames that are simple to paint out, two on the boiler that need gentle scraping to ensure no damage to the underlying paint. Pic shows one removed (bottom) and one still in place (top):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27472)

Off come the numbers - using the back side of a scalpel to gently chip off the print without damaging the base blue:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27473)

Identityless:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27474)

Nameplates go too:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27475)

Renumbered

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27476)

New nameplates (very nice etches from Lythcett):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27477)

Hacking the tender - aim is to remove the raised water tank area and reinstate the lowered well. The coal space needs enlarged too to match the original format of the A1 tender, as shown on the green model. Drilling has begun already in the pic to cut out with care the extended tank.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27465)

The area reinstated in 20thou plasticard, with water fille cap reused. The original coal space boundary still in place showing how much the real loco has had this cut down:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27466)

Bye-bye old coal space...:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27467)

The resulting loco so far:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27468)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27469)

Is now pretty close to done - needs a little tidying and for the paint to dry, and add some coal. Another quick project - total time on this about 3 hours. There are aspects which will remain wrong - the low front numberplate and the lipped chimney will remain as I quite like them, even though it really should have a high numberplate and a lip-less chimney. Rule 1 and all that. But it's representative of the A1s in the early 1950s which is the aim.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Backdating "Tornado"...
Post by: R Marshall on July 24, 2015, 12:08:18 AM
I'm with you - I like the lipped chimney.

Looks great in blue and drilling the tender out was a bold move!
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Backdating "Tornado"...
Post by: Newportnobby on July 24, 2015, 09:51:04 AM
Very nice conversion, Alan.
To a ham-fisted old codger like me you make it look easy but I'm sure it wouldn't turn out like that if I attempted it :no:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Backdating "Tornado"...
Post by: Jim Martin on July 26, 2015, 01:49:32 PM
Hi

Have you used the "back of a scalpel" method to remove printed nameplates? I want to get a grey and blue class 350 at some point and Farish only do that livery as 359111, one of only two "namers" in the entire fleet. I generally regard named MUs as an abomination (I make an exception for inter-city express units) so the plates are going to have to go and the whole thing renumbered; and I'm mulling over the best way to do it without damaging the paint job.

Jim
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Backdating "Tornado"...
Post by: Dr Al on July 26, 2015, 05:00:52 PM
I've used it for plates on this model and others - some are more stubborn than others so the best thing to do is go really gently - if it doesn't take the plate off then work up rather than going in too aggressively and damaging the base paintwork. I generally use the blade which takes of most and then give a rub with a cotton bud soaked in eather white spirit or Microsol decal setting agent (usually whichevery is nearer, rather than any specific preference). This is particularly good for polishing the area for application of fresh decals.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Dr Al on August 08, 2015, 01:46:07 AM
After a bit of chat on another thread about the possibility of converting a B1 to a K1, I thought I've have a go with a Farish B1.

The recipe so far has been:

- swap B1 wheels for 3MT wheels
- move the cylinder block back (similar to as K3)
- shorten valve gear and replace the coupling and eccentric rods with those from Farish Fairburn, fabricating eccentric motion bracket from another scrap eccentric rod.
- cut 6mm out of the boiler centre, and re-join
- lengthen and deepen the cab
- move front footplate forward and remodel
- front bogie from B1 removed and replaced with Farish Prairie front pony with Dapol A3 bogie wheelset

There is still a lot to do, and it's rough in areas (only had a quick slosh of black over boiler and cab joins to see bad areas).

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27971)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27972)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27973)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27974)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: paulprice on August 08, 2015, 09:08:24 AM
After a bit of chat on another thread about the possibility of converting a B1 to a K1, I thought I've have a go with a Farish B1.

The recipe so far has been:

- swap B1 wheels for 3MT wheels
- move the cylinder block back (similar to as K3)
- shorten valve gear and replace the coupling and eccentric rods with those from Farish Fairburn, fabricating eccentric motion bracket from another scrap eccentric rod.
- cut 6mm out of the boiler centre, and re-join
- lengthen and deepen the cab
- move front footplate forward and remodel
- front bogie from B1 removed and replaced with Farish Prairie front pony with Dapol A3 bogie wheelset

There is still a lot to do, and it's rough in areas (only had a quick slosh of black over boiler and cab joins to see bad areas).

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27971[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27972[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27973[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27974[/url])

Cheers,
Alan


WOW  :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: belstone on August 08, 2015, 09:32:58 AM
That is a very lovely piece of modelling, proportions look spot on.  The side view makes me wonder if I should have another go at my much cruder whitemetal version and take a slice out of the boiler. Mine looks a bit front-heavy at the moment - it may be a long way from a scale model, but I would still like the basic proportions to be about right. You do realise that DJM will announce a K1 about two days after you finish yours?

Richard
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: belstone on August 08, 2015, 09:41:20 AM
I'm also looking at the photo of the new N class chassis in this month's RM and idly wondering whether a cut down Langley B1 body would fit.  But that would probably be an offence under the Misuse of Locomotive Mechanisms Act.

Richard
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Jonny on August 08, 2015, 10:28:31 AM
Quality work again Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Dr Al on August 08, 2015, 12:37:29 PM
That is a very lovely piece of modelling, proportions look spot on.  The side view makes me wonder if I should have another go at my much cruder whitemetal version and take a slice out of the boiler. Mine looks a bit front-heavy at the moment - it may be a long way from a scale model, but I would still like the basic proportions to be about right. You do realise that DJM will announce a K1 about two days after you finish yours?


Taking a slice out the boiler may need consideration, as it may force you to move the cylinders and shorten the valve gear.

The N class is a distinct possibility - the drivers wheelbase is a smidge shorter than the B1, but has the advantage of having valve gear which is a pretty close representation of the K1. You could then use a Farish B1 body and a V2 tender (which would be trivial to couple to the N using a B1 drawbar). There are many ways of doing a K1 I think - the B1 is a nice option for me as they were cheap! And I have other ideas for the N.....

....mind you it's such a nice model it's difficult to consider cutting it about!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=27976)

V2 tender top, N, my K1, B1 bottom.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: belstone on August 08, 2015, 01:01:27 PM

Taking a slice out the boiler may need consideration, as it may force you to move the cylinders and shorten the valve gear.


At the moment the steam pipes on mine sit slightly forward of the centre of the cylinders so I can take a bit out without needing to get into fiddling with valve gear.  It's never going to be a remotely close to scale model, but that adjustment would make a difference to the side profile I think.  Thanks for posting comparison between the N and K1 - it does look a bit short, and as you say too pretty to start hacking about just to make another inaccurate K1.

Richard
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Roy L S on August 08, 2015, 04:44:19 PM
Outstanding work as always Alan. By the time you've finished I reckon you'll have just about every ex LNER prototype of any significance on your layout!!

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Stevie DC on September 14, 2015, 09:52:20 AM
Hey Alan, been off the grid for a bit so I'm only just catching up with things!

Love the K1 conversion! Funnily enough, I've bought an N class at TINGS last weekend for precisely this purpose (before I saw this thread!). At the moment I'm torn between using a Farish V2 tender or modifying a Dapol B1 tender to get the benefit of pinpoint tender pickups.

For reference the coupled wheelbase of the N class is 7'3, 8'3 against the K1's 7'3, 9' is the scale wheelbase is about 1.5mm out. The N classes wheels scale out at about 5'3 (as per the 3mt/4mt's wheels but should be 5'6 for the N) which is just about right for the K1's 5'2 wheels.

I'm also currently torn between following your example for my next K3 or using the N class chassis. If I could source some 5'8 driving wheels (with traction tyres) then I'd definitely go with the N class for this one too - currently the only modern Farish loco I know of with 5'8 drivers is the Fairburn which, unfortunately, doesn't have any traction tyres fitted.  :(
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Dr Al on September 14, 2015, 10:16:14 AM
Wondered where you'd disappeared to....  :P

For reference the coupled wheelbase of the N class is 7'3, 8'3 against the K1's 7'3, 9' is the scale wheelbase is about 1.5mm out. The N classes wheels scale out at about 5'3 (as per the 3mt/4mt's wheels but should be 5'6 for the N) which is just about right for the K1's 5'2 wheels.

The B1 is 7'3", 9' so is completely correct - this combined with 3MT wheels is as close to scale as is possible using current donors I think. B1 tender is completely correct too - zero mods needed (mine won't even be repainted - bonus as doing that straight lining takes effort!), so it's only the valve gear and body that need attention beyond that. Mind you, I have a bucket load of B1 parts, so am inclined to use them!

Having said that, I've made no futher progress on this - not through any problem, but just been doing other modelling things. Timeout is sometimes good too, will return to it afresh before the end of the year, as it sits centrally on my workbench right now awaiting fresh inspiration to take the next step.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: paulprice on September 14, 2015, 11:12:32 AM
Wondered where you'd disappeared to....  :P

For reference the coupled wheelbase of the N class is 7'3, 8'3 against the K1's 7'3, 9' is the scale wheelbase is about 1.5mm out. The N classes wheels scale out at about 5'3 (as per the 3mt/4mt's wheels but should be 5'6 for the N) which is just about right for the K1's 5'2 wheels.

The B1 is 7'3", 9' so is completely correct - this combined with 3MT wheels is as close to scale as is possible using current donors I think. B1 tender is completely correct too - zero mods needed (mine won't even be repainted - bonus as doing that straight lining takes effort!), so it's only the valve gear and body that need attention beyond that. Mind you, I have a bucket load of B1 parts, so am inclined to use them!

Having said that, I've made no futher progress on this - not through any problem, but just been doing other modelling things. Timeout is sometimes good too, will return to it afresh before the end of the year, as it sits centrally on my workbench right now awaiting fresh inspiration to take the next step.

Cheers,
Alan

That's no excuse, come on now chop chop, get some modelling done otherwise your in danger of becoming an LMS modeller :)
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: Dr Al on September 14, 2015, 01:25:34 PM
That's no excuse, come on now chop chop, get some modelling done otherwise your in danger of becoming an LMS modeller :)

Are you implying LMS modellers don't do much .... :P  :P

Actually, I am already - done plenty of LMS prototypes, but neither LNER or LMS is on the workbench right now - I've been aircraft modelling instead  :thumbsup:
 
Keeps things fresh!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now K1 from Farish B1
Post by: paulprice on September 14, 2015, 05:21:20 PM
That's no excuse, come on now chop chop, get some modelling done otherwise your in danger of becoming an LMS modeller :)

Are you implying LMS modellers don't do much .... :P  :P

Actually, I am already - done plenty of LMS prototypes, but neither LNER or LMS is on the workbench right now - I've been aircraft modelling instead  :thumbsup:
 
Keeps things fresh!

Cheers,
Alan

Alan to be fair we ponder about modelling a lot  :P
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Duchess fun
Post by: Dr Al on October 21, 2015, 11:18:40 PM
Been dabbling in a little fun with a new tool Duchess - converting to the Ivatt Super-Duchess 46256 "Sir William A. Stanier".

This has required cabside modifications, replacement of the rear bogie (which still needs further cosmetic work) and there still need to be some detail alterations, nameplates, but it's looking not bad already. Glad I've managed to avoid any repainting beyond the base cab lining!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=30688)

Those loco-tender wires need painting too....  :hmmm:

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Duchess fun
Post by: Hyperion on October 22, 2015, 01:14:03 AM
Looking good Al
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Duchess fun
Post by: Luke Piewalker on October 22, 2015, 07:43:27 AM
Indeed look forward to seeing it when you've tidied it all up.

Although you do seem to have accidentally made it NOT 'Duchess of Hamilton'  ??? :doh: :D
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Duchess fun
Post by: paulprice on October 22, 2015, 09:31:44 AM
Im jealous  :veryangry:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Duchess fun
Post by: Stevie DC on October 22, 2015, 10:46:41 AM
Looking very good Alan. I agree about those wires though!  8)
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on October 28, 2015, 12:39:35 AM
After a bit of timeout, I've made a return to the K1.

A few steps back to make progress - I ended up pulling the whole cab back off and fiddled with the seating and straightness as it looked skewed (too high at rear). After reseating and fixing all the bits that came apart in the process I'm happier with it now.

Replacement boiler bands for those lost (because they were in the wrong place!) have been fitted - these are thin paper strips as it's the only thing thin enough.

I've fitted balance blocks to one side of the loco and this does improve the look a lot over the the squarer 3MT ones.

The last thing done was to install an extended cab floor for the longer cab to match up with the original. Once this has dried fully I'll drill to re-fit the B1 fall plate.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=30982)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=30983)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=30984)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=30981)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: paulprice on October 28, 2015, 07:09:05 AM
Alan

Brilliant job, but I did not think the LMS had any of these?
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Newportnobby on October 28, 2015, 09:27:05 AM
Nice job, Alan.
Were the balance blocks on the centre drivers larger than the others on the prototype or is it just the camera lens being cruel?
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on October 28, 2015, 09:31:35 AM
Nice job, Alan.
Were the balance blocks on the centre drivers larger than the others on the prototype or is it just the camera lens being cruel?

Yes, they were larger - more reciprocating motion hanging off the central wheel.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 02, 2015, 01:06:40 AM
Another evening has yielded progress on the K1. After all the bits had been torn off it at the start, I'm putting it all back and fitting the remaining detail needed. This included

- cab seats (straight from the B1, but moved back to suit the K1)
- electric lighting system at front end. K1s seemed to retain this for a lot of their lives, I could only find one photo with it having been removed. Therefore it needed fitting, and this was a stumbing point for a bit, until I remembered a Farish A1 shell I had knocking about. It sacrificed it's lamp irons with electric lights for the K1, saving a bit of effort fabricating from scratch!
- pipework for this lighting was fitted to RHS of boiler, in suitably non-straight fashion (seemed to be a bit wayward on the real locos).
- cab handrails refitted (straight from the B1, though horizontal ones had longer wire substituted to fit).
- fall plate from B1 refitted.
- the prominant front footstep on the smokebox door was fabricated from scrap brass sheet.
- the panel on top of the front of the firebox has been added in paper (again for thin-ness)

This one is now pretty close to the paint shop - only a few details left (front steps being the most necessary) - once again you can have it in any colour you like.....so long as it's black....  ;D

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31256)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31257)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31258)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31259)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31260)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 02, 2015, 09:44:56 AM
Smashing detailing, Alan. Can't wait to see her emerge from the paint shop :drool:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: paulprice on November 02, 2015, 10:15:27 AM
I do love the attempts these lesser railways made to copy the mighty machines of the LMS, I'm sure if they asked nicely the LMS would have built them some nice Ivatt Moguls.

On a more serious note, its a smashing model, cant wait to see it finished.
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 02, 2015, 11:13:18 PM
K1, now available in matt black.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31278)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31279)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31280)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31281)

This has yielded only a few blemishes that will easily tidy up (surprising given all the joins, plasticard and filler), so this will fast get to the decal stage now  :thumbsup: .

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: paulprice on November 02, 2015, 11:17:45 PM
Stunning, truly stunning
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Stevie DC on November 03, 2015, 05:06:04 PM
Looking very very good Alan.  8)

I do love the attempts these lesser railways made to copy the mighty machines of the LMS, I'm sure if they asked nicely the LMS would have built them some nice Ivatt Moguls.

I'm reminded here of something Mike J posted once:

Duchesses are red,
A4's are blue,
126 mph for the A4,
The Duchess just couldn't do...

Re the above rhym... we'll conviently forget that Mallard's middle big end suffered some serious damage from running that fast and needed to be towed away for repairs....  :P

Anyway, lighthearted joking aside, when are you going to get the decals on Alan???  :D
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 03, 2015, 05:20:42 PM
Anyway, lighthearted joking aside, when are you going to get the decals on Alan???  :D

A once over to tidy some minor points, another coat of black in those areas, then gloss before decals can be done, Steve.

What's been happening with you - been quiet recently...  :)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Stevie DC on November 03, 2015, 06:15:58 PM
A once over to tidy some minor points, another coat of black in those areas, then gloss before decals can be done, Steve.


Looking forward to seeing this one progress! I've still got some tinkering to do with my 3D printed version but using the Farish N class chassis cobbled to an old V2 tender (not for me I might add as it is a few years out of period for me!).

What's been happening with you - been quiet recently...  :)


Not a huge amount at the moment to be honest. Started a new Job in September (having been unemployed for the previous eleven months!) so this has taken a bit of time. I'm currently designing some etches for various bits and pieces as well as altering a few CAD files to take into account my current practices on the 3D printer. Hopefully I'll have some updates on these (projects for both myself and a couple of members) come the end of the month.

All hasn't been completely quiet though, I've been butchering a couple of Peco signal box kits the progress of which can be found here: http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30088.msg343081#new (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30088.msg343081#new)
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 03, 2015, 07:59:43 PM
then gloss before decals can be done, Steve.


I know you'll gloss it anyway, Alan, but for some reason I very much like it as matt :hmmm:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 03, 2015, 09:05:04 PM
I know you'll gloss it anyway, Alan, but for some reason I very much like it as matt :hmmm:

Fear not Nobby - it'll ultimately be matt coted. Just need gloss stage for proper decal adhesion.

cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 05, 2015, 12:41:34 AM
Progress has been swift on this, and after fitting front steps, a quick tidy up of rough areas, the shell had these areas re-coated in black and then glossed yesterday.

Tonight the decals went on, and manged to get these mostly complete bar the front numberplate (which is too small so will have to be replaced  :doh: ) and a few minor adjusts.

Will look a lot better when it's been matt-coted though! Need to fix the slant on the cylinder block too as this is not right.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31360)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31361)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31362)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Les1952 on November 06, 2015, 12:03:11 AM
Looking very very good Alan.  8)

I do love the attempts these lesser railways made to copy the mighty machines of the LMS, I'm sure if they asked nicely the LMS would have built them some nice Ivatt Moguls.

I'm reminded here of something Mike J posted once:

Duchesses are red,
A4's are blue,
126 mph for the A4,
The Duchess just couldn't do...

Re the above rhym... we'll conviently forget that Mallard's middle big end suffered some serious damage from running that fast and needed to be towed away for repairs....  :P

Anyway, lighthearted joking aside, when are you going to get the decals on Alan???  :D

Except that Mallard was taken off the train as a precaution and was back in service in a few days with middle big end intact and still with its phials of smelly stuff unbroken.

It was an earlier run where the middle big end failed- the cause that time being that the driver hadn't been briefed beforehand and only found out when Thompson (I think) came through the corridor tender and instructed him to go flat out- this at Grantham with an engine not prepared for the task....  Source Peter Coster's book.

Les
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: maridunian on November 06, 2015, 01:49:02 PM
This one's all but complete now after final varnishing.

What a stunning model - need to raise my game!

Mike
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 06, 2015, 01:52:51 PM
Except that Mallard was taken off the train as a precaution and was back in service in a few days with middle big end intact and still with its phials of smelly stuff unbroken.

It was an earlier run where the middle big end failed- the cause that time being that the driver hadn't been briefed beforehand and only found out when Thompson (I think) came through the corridor tender and instructed him to go flat out- this at Grantham with an engine not prepared for the task....  Source Peter Coster's book.

This is OT, but very interesting - are you basically saying that Mallard's stop has been wrongly reported as big end failure/run hot for all these years?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 07, 2015, 02:15:49 PM
This one's getting very close now. Has been dullcoted and decalling completed with the lining on the tender footplate which Farish omit on the B1 for some reason.

A few bits still to do - paint cab floor and reinstate the B1 cab glazing, as well as a few tidy ups of areas (at refit the sandpipe which both came off in handling  :confused1: ).

I also fixed the cylinder slant and painted them black.

Just a few pics as lighting isn't great today, so doesn't flatter!

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31479)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31480)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Newportnobby on November 07, 2015, 02:23:12 PM
Terrific work, Alan :drool:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Luke Piewalker on November 07, 2015, 09:54:21 PM
Indeed, smashing!
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Les1952 on November 07, 2015, 10:59:41 PM
Except that Mallard was taken off the train as a precaution and was back in service in a few days with middle big end intact and still with its phials of smelly stuff unbroken.

It was an earlier run where the middle big end failed- the cause that time being that the driver hadn't been briefed beforehand and only found out when Thompson (I think) came through the corridor tender and instructed him to go flat out- this at Grantham with an engine not prepared for the task....  Source Peter Coster's book.

That is correct- source Peter Coster.  The loco was removed as a precaution and a few prominent railway journalists seem to have put two and two together to make five...

Les
This is OT, but very interesting - are you basically saying that Mallard's stop has been wrongly reported as big end failure/run hot for all these years?

Cheers,
Alan

That is correct- source Peter Coster.  The loco was removed as a precaution and a few prominent railway journalists (CJA and others) seem to have put two and two together to make five...

Les
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Les1952 on November 07, 2015, 11:01:55 PM
This one's getting very close now. Has been dullcoted and decalling completed with the lining on the tender footplate which Farish omit on the B1 for some reason.

A few bits still to do - paint cab floor and reinstate the B1 cab glazing, as well as a few tidy ups of areas (at refit the sandpipe which both came off in handling  :confused1: ).

I also fixed the cylinder slant and painted them black.

Just a few pics as lighting isn't great today, so doesn't flatter!

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31479[/url])

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=31480[/url])

Cheers,
Alan


IMHO the lighting on the two most recent pics makes the loco look like a real workhorse.

Les
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Stevie DC on November 08, 2015, 10:54:00 PM
Now that is stunning! (Even for a post Gresley locomotive!)  8) 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: paulprice on November 09, 2015, 07:01:04 AM
Cant wait to se the next Loco to leave your locomotive works.

Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Stevie DC on November 09, 2015, 08:49:10 AM
Cant wait to se the next Loco to leave your locomotive works.

Heaven forbid that I'd agree with Mr Price about anything, but very much seconded here!  ;)  :P
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: paulprice on November 09, 2015, 10:10:54 AM
Cant wait to se the next Loco to leave your locomotive works.

Heaven forbid that I'd agree with Mr Price about anything, but very much seconded here!  ;)  :P
Why is it so difficult to agree with me, you can't find it that hard to agree that I'm always right about engines from a real railway can you  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Stevie DC on November 09, 2015, 10:37:04 AM
Why is it so difficult to agree with me, you can't find it that hard to agree that I'm always right about engines from a real railway can you  :smiley-laughing:

You see, I thought there might actually be hope for you but then you have to go and spoil it!  >:D  :P  :smiley-laughing:

Anyway, back on topic, superb modelling Alan!  8)
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 10, 2015, 10:30:43 PM
Cant wait to se the next Loco to leave your locomotive works.

Have to say I'm actually relatively light on projects right now - a few early days, but not ready to actually progress. Duchess can progress, but need to source nameplates as this is proving harder than I first thought (anyone know a source of nameplates for 46256 "Sir William Stanier F.R.S." ?). There are of course a few bottom of the drawer projects that really should be finished, but have been sitting for ....a long time.

K1 has been running and still needs a couple of tweaks to the valve gear - it works fine but everything is fairly tight toleranced so getting the slide bars finally bonded to the cylinders in exactly the right location still needs to be accomplished.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: thebrighton on November 11, 2015, 03:09:12 PM
Hi Alan,
I've got a set somewhere as I never finished my conversion. PM me your address and I'll pop them in the post to you.
Gareth
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 12, 2015, 09:09:25 AM
Hi Alan,
I've got a set somewhere as I never finished my conversion. PM me your address and I'll pop them in the post to you.
Gareth

Many thanks Gareth, I will take you up on that offer and PM you - you can let me know what you want for them.  :thumbsup:

 :beers:

Thanks,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: portland-docks on November 25, 2015, 05:17:41 PM
how much to buy the k1 off you  :D


haha i love the model its stunning! would be right at home on moorside running our heritage railway, aswell as the mainline section to "whitby".

due to my fat fingers etc i really struggle with any modelling especially to that standard!

k1 and k4 are 2 locos i would love to be able to have on our layout!

looks fab tho al well done!

paul
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now back to K1
Post by: Dr Al on November 25, 2015, 06:16:18 PM
Thanks Paul for the positive comments - 'fraid this one is not for sale though!

In other news, there has been progress on 46256, and thanks must got again to Gareth for his nameplates so it's no longer Duchess of Hamilton! No photos right now, but coming soon!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: was Atso K3, now Ivatt Duchess
Post by: Dr Al on December 23, 2015, 01:54:48 AM
A bit of time has allowed some progress to be made on a few projects.

The first was to actually finish @Atso (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) 's Pigeon van - it was almost done, but I wanted to fit a half open side window - well it's always sunny on the Eastern, right?

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33285)

The Ivatt Duchess has moved forward with some detailing done, and the bogie reshaped considerably. It'll be difficult to get this much closer, but it's better now than it was. Thanks to @Ozymandias (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=3534) for it, and @thebrighton (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=943) for the nameplates which now identify her/him (and still need their mountings tidied up).

She's also had a new front bogie, the AWS cylinder and pipework fitted, and the reversing rod fitted. Just needs the under cab pipework (clutter!) to be fitted now. And that wire painting....

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33281)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33283)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33282)

And the last project is a Masterclass models 51' Gresley coach - had this lying about awaiting the soldering iron for years, so thought I'd better dust it off. Early days, but you see the genesis. Probably shouldn't have started it, as you can't get these now, so I'm sure I've devalued it infinitely.... :angel:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33284)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Ivatt Duchess
Post by: paulprice on December 23, 2015, 07:20:27 AM
The Duchess is stunning  :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - UM detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 02:17:22 AM
Time off at Xmas always allows some catching up on projects, or starting of new.

One such area is my Union Mills fleet - some will know I've superdetailed several, but there's still quite a few to do. So lets get another done.

I realise that it's often said that UMs are prime for easy detailing, and here I try and provide an example of such. I've used only the absolutely most basic of tools, namely (some old knackered snips, some fine pliers, a scalpel, a needle file and sanding stick, pin vice with drills, and a screwdriver to remove the chassis):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33579)

and a small Antex soldering iron. Nothing more.

The victim is a UM LMS 2F. This is a perfect starter detailing model as there's only a little amount of detail that's really needed to upgrade it to fit better with modern RTR. As it comes (apart from the painted black rims and shortened wire):

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33584)

My chosen prototype is 58143:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5568/15199352361_e7e0eeef70_b.jpg)

mainly because I have pics of both sides of it, and it matches the UM locos plain side rods (tho these are fluted on the back so could be reversed if your prototype had fluted rods.
So what needs doing? Well the tender is fairly close, but most had beading on the tank. Some of the tender details need re-cited, but otherwise there's no a lot. The loco really only needs lamp irons, a front coupling hook, and primarily: separate handrails. Also brake blocks, but this is harder and can be left out.

So out came the scalpel and off came all the unnecessary moulded detail - on the loco the handrails, the tender has had the paint removed with the sanding stick to give clean surface for the beading, some handrails at front end taken off.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33585)

That's it - now it's all reinstating. Total time so far? 1/2 hour.

I reinstated the handrails (only fitted temp here as some holes still need drills and I broke the last 0.4mm drill!  :doh: ). These are N-brass, knobs soldered on to the wire with standard 60:40 solder. They will be soldered to the body with low melt solder to avoid damaging the UM casting. The tender beading was soldered to the UM tender side with low melt 70 degree solder - this is scrap brass etch from the coach I was building in the last update (keep this stuff!). Of course you can get custom brass strip if you don't have any.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33580)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33581)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33582)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33583)

So far - total time, about 2 1/2 (leisurely) hours - i.e. an evening. This is something any modeller could attempt and the model is already improved and not in an expensive or big-time consuming way. Next will be fitting the boiler handrails, tender details .....but once some drills arrive....

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: CarriageShed on December 31, 2015, 09:47:18 AM
You're a braver man than I, Gunga Din... but it's looking great. I've found that creating a fall plate and sticking it inside the cab also helps to mask some of the gap between tender and loco, and helps to hide the wire too.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: bigbadbadge on December 31, 2015, 11:38:53 AM
Wow this looks amazing, will catch up with the post properly soon as short of time today.

Keep up the good work

All the best and Happy New Year

Chris
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Bangor Lad on December 31, 2015, 12:17:25 PM
Great topic!

I've a couple UM locos and some old Farish ones too which are just crying out for some detailing. Your posts may just have given me the impetus to get on with it, just as soon as I've managed to find the time!

Cheers
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 01:43:04 PM
Cheers folks. Below are a few I've done before - shots that no doubt some will have seen before, but for those who haven't they show what can be done with more complex prototypes (why did I start back in the day with the hardest stuff....  :hmmm: ), and the standard I aim to get all my UMs to, one day!

UM J39 - the first I did, one of the relatively early models, which actually holds up very well to the Farish J39 still and will massacre the Farish model in terms of running performance:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33588)

The D20 which was a major detailing job with a lot more detail than will need to be added to the 2F:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33589)

LMS 7F, which had basically not much different that what will be added to the 2F. Just a bit bigger and a bit more of it:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33590)

I like the idea of the fall plate, not something I've been so bothered about with the above examples, but the 2F has a particularly visible cab area due to the small cab, so something I'll definitely consider. Easy to add later to any loco.

One thing with these is that they've all been fitted with Mashima 5 pole motors, which massively improves the slow speed performance and eliminates stickyness due to motor pole cogging, while keeping the massive pulling power of the original models. This, together with shortening the wire and painting the wheel rims is the absolute minimum I do to get a UM into satisfactory running condition to be used on the layout. I then joins the superdetailing queue, which is somewhat longer!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dorsetmike on December 31, 2015, 02:21:25 PM

One thought I've pondered, could somebody produce overlays of spokes etched onto discs which could be stuck on? I've seen some etched spoked brake wheels (BHE9) and Mansell wheel overlays (Etched Pixels DET25) so tender wheels should not be a problem.

Sheets should have multiples of 6. I suspect UM tender wheels are all the same size so should be a doddle. Number of spokes per wheel do vary but I would have thought something near an average should work.

These would allow me to hack another T9 or two into the narrow cab and watercart tender version (see my sig below), having to source a Fleischmann tender drive makes for an expensive 4-4-0, compared to adding a pair of wheels.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on December 31, 2015, 04:29:41 PM

One thing with these is that they've all been fitted with Mashima 5 pole motors, which massively improves the slow speed performance and eliminates stickyness due to motor pole cogging, while keeping the massive pulling power of the original models.

I've done the same thing with mine after  reading an earlier post of yours recommending it, and I'd definitely second that as a top tip, thanks

However I was a bit clumsy removing one of the worms whilst doing this and managed to damage the thread, and haven't been able to fully restore it by filing. I was wondering if you could tell me what the specification for the worm is ?

Richard
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 04:48:08 PM
These would allow me to hack another T9 or two into the narrow cab and watercart tender version (see my sig below), having to source a Fleischmann tender drive makes for an expensive 4-4-0, compared to adding a pair of wheels.

Would Fleischmann wheels fit the UM drive?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 04:51:43 PM
However I was a bit clumsy removing one of the worms whilst doing this and managed to damage the thread, and haven't been able to fully restore it by filing. I was wondering if you could tell me what the specification for the worm is ?


I think (*think*) they are MOD 0.3 (this is the tooth pitch), beyond that I know not much more - have you tried to obtain a few spares from UM? Some of these may suit also:

http://www.kbscale.com/motors-gears.html (http://www.kbscale.com/motors-gears.html)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Stevie DC on December 31, 2015, 06:06:25 PM
Hi Alan, looking good with 2F upgrade! I'm sure that it'll be first class once you've finished with it!

I think (*think*) they are MOD 0.3 (this is the tooth pitch), beyond that I know not much more - have you tried to obtain a few spares from UM? Some of these may suit also:

[url]http://www.kbscale.com/motors-gears.html[/url] ([url]http://www.kbscale.com/motors-gears.html[/url])


I'm not convinced that the worms are MOD 0.3 as they seem coarser than current Farish gears (which are or very close to MOD 0.3). Colin at UM is usually very good at supplying spares.

These would allow me to hack another T9 or two into the narrow cab and watercart tender version (see my sig below), having to source a Fleischmann tender drive makes for an expensive 4-4-0, compared to adding a pair of wheels.


Would Fleischmann wheels fit the UM drive?


I'm toying with the idea of using either Farish or Dapol LNER/LMS pacific Cartazzi wheels fitted with appropriate gears on a UM tender drive (Dapol Cartazzi wheels will just fit, don't know about Farish ones yet). I was going to use Bullfrog Snot as a substitute for traction tyres and rejig the tender for pickup on both sides.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 06:07:56 PM
I'm toying with the idea of using either Farish or Dapol LNER/LMS pacific Cartazzi wheels fitted with appropriate gears on a UM tender drive (Dapol Cartazzi wheels will just fit, don't know about Farish ones yet). I was going to use Bullfrog Snot as a substitute for traction tyres and rejig the tender for pickup on both sides.

Good luck with bullfrog snot - worst invention in the history of model rail contender for me tho!!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dorsetmike on December 31, 2015, 06:09:43 PM
For the T9 hack using the Fleischmann tender drive I had to add current collectors to the loco chassis, and also to the tender drive. It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels, the Fleischmann wheels do have tyres butare insulated both sides so would need some fiddling to collect current from them in the way UM do, conductive paint is one possibility. That's why I suggest the spoke overlays.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Stevie DC on December 31, 2015, 06:11:23 PM
Good luck with bullfrog snot - worst invention in the history of model rail contender for me tho!!

I'll give it a go and let you know if I'll be seconding your nomination in the not so distant future!  :D  ;)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 06:14:15 PM
I'll give it a go and let you know if I'll be seconding your nomination in the not so distant future!  :D  ;)

I just can't see how blobbing on some goo can result in anything other than rough or non-concentric wheel surfaces - something I've worked hard to eliminate on models. I think there must be better options - I'd much rather grind a groove for a proper traction tyre.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 06:16:23 PM
For the T9 hack using the Fleischmann tender drive I had to add current collectors to the loco chassis, and also to the tender drive. It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels, the Fleischmann wheels do have tyres butare insulated both sides so would need some fiddling to collect current from them in the way UM do, conductive paint is one possibility. That's why I suggest the spoke overlays.

Yes, an etch is a decent idea - just wonder if you could get the a good enough depth to make it noticable. It is a shame there's no current viable alternative wheel that could be dropped in - the need for traction tyres makes it all the more difficult.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on December 31, 2015, 06:24:33 PM
Another hour and a half spent on the 2F, and the front end detail has been mostly completed, cab side rails fitted and new tender filler fitted.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33605)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33604)

The buffers are N-brass, as is the tender filler. The stoneguards are from scrap etch, as is the coupling hook. Don't chuck the old buffers (these are separate, and with care pull out) - they are handy spares for other UM locos in case they lose a buffer head.

Total time so far only ~4 Hours.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: CarriageShed on January 01, 2016, 12:47:51 AM
...It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels. The Fleischmann wheels do have tyres but are insulated both sides...

Question from an engineering and electrical thickie, does the extra wheel need to be conductive at all? Wouldn't a best-match plastic or isolated metal be just as good?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 01, 2016, 10:46:10 AM
...It would be much easier to use the UM tender drive and add a pair of wheels. The Fleischmann wheels do have tyres but are insulated both sides...

Question from an engineering and electrical thickie, does the extra wheel need to be conductive at all? Wouldn't a best-match plastic or isolated metal be just as good?

The extra wheel doesn't need to be conductive, I usually use a wheel from a pony truck or bogie, in some cases I use the complete pony truck, fixing it to where the drawbar would fit at the front of the UM drive. That works quite well under a BHE N15 tender body the extra weight really does give exceptional pulling power, however the Watercart tender had inside bearings so the lack of spokes on the UM wheels does show!

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: CarriageShed on January 01, 2016, 02:53:14 PM
...however the Watercart tender had inside bearings so the lack of spokes on the UM wheels does show!

At the most basic level, perhaps spoked wheel 'flats' could be printed off and stuck to the solid UM wheels?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dorsetmike on January 01, 2016, 04:59:12 PM
If you look at this page in  Etched pixels/Ultima catalogue,
http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/comp-detail.html (http://www.ultima-models.co.uk/catalogue/comp-detail.html)
 scroll down to item DET25, Mansell wheel overlays, if that works for coaches/wagons then something very similar should be possible for spokes; the Langley rebuilt MN and Q1 kits included box pok overlays to fit over the wheels, so it's not exactly a new idea.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on January 05, 2016, 11:10:59 AM
Another evening on the 2F and it's pretty much done. First stage anyway.

The boiler handrails have now been soldered on, a reversing lever from scrap etch fitted and lamp irons from staples.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33775)

Most of the remaining work was on the tender - it had buffers and coupling hook fitted. Studying prototype pictures, these tenders had two rails at the cab end, which couldn't be left out. These were made from scrap etch and handrail wire, and the small triangular fillet at the bottom also added. A central toolbox (well, a representation) was made from a lump of whitemetal.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33776)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33777)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33778)

The loco is first stage complete. It will now head for cleaning up, primer and painting. Second stage will be fitting brake blocks, but this can be done to the base retaining plate of the loco, so need not hold up getting it painted.

Time on this? About 4 hours, so total time so far about 8 hours.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: CarriageShed on January 05, 2016, 12:25:07 PM
Another evening on the 2F and it's pretty much done. First stage anyway.

It's coming along very well. You're making it look so easy that I'm already contemplating getting a 2F so that I can convert it into an S&D Class G 'Scottie'. The differences are very small - mostly the cab sides and tender springs. And I'd have something unique afterwards.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: paulprice on January 05, 2016, 02:35:28 PM
I think I can feel a 2F joining the Foster Street fleet pretty soon  :D
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on January 05, 2016, 04:46:05 PM
I think I can feel a 2F joining the Foster Street fleet pretty soon  :D

You've  got a Jub, Scot and Garratt to fix first.... ;)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: paulprice on January 05, 2016, 07:54:25 PM
I think I can feel a 2F joining the Foster Street fleet pretty soon  :D

You've  got a Jub, Scot and Garratt to fix first.... ;)

Cheers,
Alan

Your a hard task master  :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: bigbadbadge on January 05, 2016, 08:42:10 PM
What fantastic work Dr Al, Will keep an eye on this thread, very inspirational.  I am building my first Kit in N gauge (BHE Thumper) and since joining I have taken down from the shelf of doom and re started work on it again.  It has been helped by the likes of your thread. 
Thanks for sharing

All the best
Chris
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on January 26, 2016, 12:14:33 AM
Well it's been a bit longer than intended, but the first level detailing of the 2F is now done. It's been repainted and is ready to rejoin the runners, and await it's stage 2 detailing (brake gear).

It took longer to get into a paint fit state than intended - after the first coat of primer the tender needed little cleaning up, but the loco had numerous bemishes under the handrails that needed several passes to sort out. I blame my cutting of a corner here - not stripping the loco completely of paint first. I think it's something I'd still do (as the UM finish is robust, so having it under a refinish seems no bad thing) - but it does make it hard to see imperfections around the areas where cast detail has been removed.

However, it was tidyable with careful work. The handrails aren't perfect, but for a loco that by this time, (BR days) would be fairly old and unlikely to be in perfect condition, so I'm happy to let them pass.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=34807)

and how it originally looked again:

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=33584)

A few details still need sorted out - painting of the whistle, safety valve and works plates will add something I think, and the tender disc wheels. Some better coal will be added I think too.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=34808)

The tender had the most work, and I'm fairly pleased with the ultimate result - something a bit different to the fairly standard UM tender that comes with a plethora of different UM locos.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/MGalleryItem.php?id=34809)

I probably spent at least another 4 hours on tidying up and painting, taking the approximate upgrade time to something around 12 hours. The list of improvements done in total is:

- motor replaced with 5 pole Mashima 1015
- loco-tender current wire shortened
- loco cast handrails removed and refitted with N brass components
- buffers replaced with N-brass turned buffers
- coupling hooks fitted
- front sandboxes fitted
- front stoneguards fitted
- separate reversing lever fitted
- chimney drilled out
- tender raised beading fitted to tank sides
- tender front handrails replaced using scrap etch and N-Brass handrails
- tender toolboxes removed and central one refitted
- rear tender fitted with lamp irons
- repaint with correct sized crests and numerals

Actually a fairly small list, and raises the loco to sit more readily with Bachmann/Dapol RTR.

Comments/criticism (constructive!) welcome!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: paulprice on January 26, 2016, 07:43:26 AM
I want one, I want one
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Ricardus Harfelde on January 26, 2016, 11:37:25 AM

very nice, The tender beading looks very good. Can I ask how you did the soldering for it, e.g. do you need to tin the brass first?

Richard
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on January 26, 2016, 11:42:20 AM
Can I ask how you did the soldering for it, e.g. do you need to tin the brass first?

Yes, I tinned it with low melt (70 degree) solder, and also used this solder to do all work on the loco.

HTH,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: NeMo on January 26, 2016, 12:01:18 PM
Inspired by this; thanks for posting the photos.

I've added some stoneguards from scraps of brass to my Adams 0395, plus some coal in the tender, vacuum brake pipes, a crew, and a bit of weathering. Already looks a lot better. But minded now to do some more if I can find the right sort of brassy bits to add!

Any tips on where to find the right sort of detailing parts?

Cheers, NeMo
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Dr Al on January 26, 2016, 12:03:15 PM
Any tips on where to find the right sort of detailing parts?


N Brass Locomotives:
http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/ (http://www.nbrasslocos.co.uk/)

They have a plethora of high quality parts. Nick there is very helpful.

Keep scrap etch from them too - it's always infinitely useful for fabricating things like the reversing lever.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Union Mills detailing
Post by: Bealman on January 26, 2016, 01:46:17 PM
Excellent and impressive work. A clear and informative post that is sure to be useful to forum members.

Thank you!

George
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 02, 2016, 11:38:22 PM
So, with all the talk of price rises, unable to afford models and all the rest, what's the best thing to do?

Take two £100 models and attack them with a saw with the full intent of completely devaluing them and ending up with only one model after it all? Yep.....brilliant!

Truth be told, this was more accurately one good model and one cheap one that was missing some parts, but not those I needed. Ever since the Bachmann WD 2-8-0 was released, I've been slightly itching to see if there was a practicable way of making into the 2-10-0 version. The body will be easy (plastic cut-n-shut), but the chassis was always going to be the challenge - can a 2-8-0 be made into a 2-10-0 without madness or half scratchbuilding the chassis.

After some thought (6 months.... :confused1: ) the solution presented itself immediately when casting my eyes back over it. I won't go into massive detail, but suffice to say it involved cutting the back end off the two chassis in different locations, and joining the pieces back together, allowing an additional 5th rear wheelset to be added from one chassis (this wheelset being the 4th on the 2-8-0). I used the corner of the slot for the square bearing of the 3rd axle as the datum measurement point (this was the key to getting it all to match up). The rear wheels would then be spaced correctly* for fitting of the rear end of the coupling rods using the 3rd-4th axle spacing of the 2-8-0. This makes it easiest, but it does mean (and I'm sure some of you are screaming it already) that the wheelbase will be * a little bit longer than the real thing. This is something I accept - it would be more difficult to get the 4th-5th separation completely correct (and even then the 3rd-4th wouldn't be perfect).

This shall be a 'layout loco' as Tony Wright would say, so a tiny smidge long will do for me. The key is that it runs, and runs pretty well (fortunately the gear train is all completely untouched), which for me is a pretty big *phew* moment! I managed to get the two tyred wheelsets on, so that together with the slightly heavier chassis than the 2-8-0 should mean haulage capacity at least as good as it was originally, perhaps a smidge better.

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1497/26756177276_719edf9c52_b.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1470/26780991385_1045d94022_b.jpg)

I drilled out the holes on the front bogie wheelset aswell...:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1470/26756176696_93b11f748e_b.jpg)

Tyres on 3rd and 4th sets seem to do well. I haven't yet decided how to splice the two keeper plates together, but even without them the rods keep the wheels in place. It almost doesn't need the 5th set covered:

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1472/26177043343_b81774380d_b.jpg)

This feels like the worst of this done. The tender is done already (thanks Mrs/Mr Bachmann  :D ), so now just needs some measuring up of the bodies and a cut and shut to lengthen one up to sit on the chassis.

This one won't go round 9 inch radius curves....so if Mrs/Mr Bachmann ever thinks to do one, they'll need to do something more tricksy with the chassis to build in more clearances. Doesn't bother me, can be limited RA if necessary!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: paulprice on May 03, 2016, 08:37:00 AM
WOW :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Newportnobby on May 03, 2016, 10:20:58 AM
The 'stretched' WD already looks awesome so I'm going to love the finished article, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: belstone on May 03, 2016, 01:20:53 PM
Now there's a brave man. Really looking forward to seeing the finished loco: these 2-10-0s were magnificent beasts.

Richard
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 03, 2016, 11:12:08 PM
The great thing with this conversion is that because the loco to be modelled is *so* similar to the starting point, and it's all plastic, super fast progress can be made.

The bodywork pretty much fell together tonight, after choosing the most desirable cut locations. The first body wis stripped of add on detail (which all came off easy, so will be reused, even down to the WD's austerity handrail knobs). Boiler was cut behind the fourth band (as all before this are the same spacing on the 2-10-0 as the 2-8-0). The footplate was cut at the cab front. Then the second body was simply cut to fit on the back end of this, such that the original mounting at the chassis rear mated as it did originally.

The loco needs the front of the cab lengthened by 2mm, and the firebox is going to be too long by about the same, but this is a pragmatic choice as alluded to in previous post. I may move the cab forward 1/2mm or so to slightly offset this.

The original dome on the front loco was filed off and the dome from the second shell cut out and fitted into a space cut further back as it should be. The safety valves were also re-cited in a similar way. First course pass with filler on the joined parts, though the actual main joins have still to be made. The firebox will need reshaping and the boiler bands there redone, but other than tidy up and minor detail removal/replacement this one has taken massive steps forward in short amount of time.

The mechanism will necessitate some 'skirt' but this will just have to be lived with.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7547/26195245484_a838e8c317_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7518/26707152612_005f674b48_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7553/26800069205_047bb3f79c_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7064/26196602363_b999e87d77_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: paulprice on May 04, 2016, 09:29:24 AM
Looking great,
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Newportnobby on May 04, 2016, 09:29:57 AM

The mechanism will necessitate some 'skirt' but this will just have to be lived with.


Looks a wonderful beast, Alan, but I'm not sure I follow the 'skirt' bit. :dunce:
Could you elucidate please?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 04, 2016, 09:53:09 AM
Looks a wonderful beast, Alan, but I'm not sure I follow the 'skirt' bit. :dunce:
Could you elucidate please?

Under the boiler should be clear right up to the firebox. The 2-8-0 is nicely engineered to achieve that. However, for this 2-10-0, under the 4th bit of boiler barrel (the one behind the dome) the mechanism sits, so this area will not be clear - often this is referred to as a 'skirt' on the boiler. It's not too bad, and unavoidable in this case.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: belstone on May 04, 2016, 10:30:12 AM
Looking really lovely, apart from where you sneezed on it  ;D
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Hailstone on May 04, 2016, 01:21:58 PM
how do you intend to model the wider firebox?

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 07, 2016, 03:43:16 PM
how do you intend to model the wider firebox?

Well, like this  ;)

I cut away the representation of the firebox from the 2-8-0 and formed the different shape of the 2-10-0's with plasticard. Before this the cab front needed extending - this was done by cutting the front 3mm off the second cab, and filing back to around 2mm depth. This then had the opening for the boiler opened out so ir fit round the boiler snugly with the original cab in place in its original fitting. Using the second cab allows the lovely moulding detail on the front to be preserved and reused.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7210/26264012083_7bf304cacf_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7113/26868351375_6c764ab971_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7484/26262863044_97bbf05c6a_b.jpg)

This is now getting to the point where it's getting close. The handrail holes need recited on the firebox, but it's now mostly cleaning up and some small detail being re-added.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Jerry Howlett on May 07, 2016, 03:47:11 PM
Where is my nearest angling supplier? Having seen this I am in the wrong hobby....  Brilliant Dr Al! :claphappy:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: zwilnik on May 07, 2016, 03:59:12 PM
I agree, this is one of the nicest loco chop jobs I've seen in a long time. Really nice work and a unique loco as a result.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: paulprice on May 07, 2016, 05:36:18 PM
Dr Al you are a modelling genius.

I think I may take up crochet  :'(
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 11, 2016, 12:38:38 AM
This one hit time for paint tonight. Not because it's ready for it, but precisely the opposite - I need some paint to see where the blemishes all are, what joins are visible and what joins are not. It's looking not bad, but quite a few bits identified to tidy up on cab join and around the dome before we can head to reinstating the detail and adding any that's missing. That Westinghouse pump needs to go too now I look...damn, another hole to fill!

But the feel of the loco is starting to come together:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7454/26337396723_32a73f1742_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7582/26337396473_e3ebbfa154_b.jpg)

I'm hoping to actually survive with only a partial repaint on this one - retain the RA numbers, front shedplate and renumber. The ultimate quality I can get the finish of the modified parts of the body will determine if I weather this one, and if so how heavily (if I can't get all the blemishes sorted out then it might get my full 9F treatment.....  >:D ). Whatever, I need to paint those wheel rims black as they are irritatingly stand-out.

Also pottering along is a Masterclass models etched brass Gresley suburban coach kit. I get the feeling these are damn rare, so most excellently for you collectors (actually, I doubt any will be reading this) I've built mine, so one less out there! It's got to finished paint state on body and chassis, roof needs more work, and an interior built. Next task will be to highlight the door grabs and handles though.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/26337395903_cefbb73842_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7319/26337395513_00f48288bd_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/26337397123_c92e5c7c3c_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Newportnobby on May 11, 2016, 10:59:02 AM
Smashing job on the loco, Alan.

I need to paint those wheel rims black as they are irritatingly stand-out.


Paint the coupling rods, too, and we're getting awfully close to a 'stealth' WD :goggleeyes:

The coach looks superb as well, and I'm looking forward to seeing more of it as it evolves.
Title: Re: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: maridunian on May 11, 2016, 01:41:30 PM
This one hit time for paint tonight. Not because it's ready for it, but precisely the opposite - I need some paint to see where the blemishes all are, what joins are visible and what joins are not. It's looking not bad, but quite a few bits identified to tidy up on cab join and around the dome before we can head to reinstating the detail and adding any that's missing. That Westinghouse pump needs to go too now I look...damn, another hole to fill!

But the feel of the loco is starting to come together:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7454/26337396723_32a73f1742_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7582/26337396473_e3ebbfa154_b.jpg)

I'm hoping to actually survive with only a partial repaint on this one - retain the RA numbers, front shedplate and renumber. The ultimate quality I can get the finish of the modified parts of the body will determine if I weather this one, and if so how heavily (if I can't get all the blemishes sorted out then it might get my full 9F treatment.....  >:D ). Whatever, I need to paint those wheel rims black as they are irritatingly stand-out.

Also pottering along is a Masterclass models etched brass Gresley suburban coach kit. I get the feeling these are damn rare, so most excellently for you collectors (actually, I doubt any will be reading this) I've built mine, so one less out there! It's got to finished paint state on body and chassis, roof needs more work, and an interior built. Next task will be to highlight the door grabs and handles though.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7038/26337395903_cefbb73842_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7319/26337395513_00f48288bd_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7431/26337397123_c92e5c7c3c_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Looking good!

Mike
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: belstone on May 11, 2016, 05:27:40 PM
On the K1 I tried black Sharpie permanent marker on the wheel rims as an experiment.  It hasn't come off yet, unlike paint. It dries with a slight oily-looking sheen which isn't a bad thing on wheels.

Richard
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 11, 2016, 11:27:08 PM
On the K1 I tried black Sharpie permanent marker on the wheel rims as an experiment.  It hasn't come off yet, unlike paint. It dries with a slight oily-looking sheen which isn't a bad thing on wheels.

Richard

Humbrol 85 is my weapon of choice usually for these things - as it's a perfect match usually for Bachmann's satin finish. After weathering (which is likely to happen - when were WD's ever clean) it'll all be dirt black too.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 23, 2016, 11:59:30 PM
The WD 2-10-0 is close to complete. All the details are fitted (apart from the cab handrails, which of course I only spotted after taking the pics!).

I reused the original handrail knobs (distinctly WD) and replacement rails themselves. Pipework under the firebox/cab seemed to be pretty variable looking at my reference pics, so I've done something representative, but not specifically precise to one particular loco pic. I also added some boiler washout plugs - again representative of more, but not perfectly placed (as it'd need those already on the boiler completely moved - too much!). This looks fair enough to me and gives the appropriate clutter above the firebox. I'm sure the rivet counters are screaming at me!

Next is paint (I did touch in those wheel rims already :) !).

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7609/27134174571_9b3ab55a95_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7011/27169343016_448e3064d8_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7020/26596753184_8f4244a0d0_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: belstone on May 24, 2016, 01:06:14 AM
I don't think the rivet counters would dare say a word.  That's quite a remarkable bit of work. Now you need lots of wagons for it.

Richard
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: paulprice on May 24, 2016, 06:34:44 AM
wow
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Newportnobby on May 24, 2016, 09:58:40 AM
Smashing job, Alan :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Caz on May 24, 2016, 07:05:17 PM
What a beast, greak work Al.   :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Ditape on May 24, 2016, 08:14:32 PM
 :greatwork: :wonderfulmodelling:

If the rivet counters have a problem with your work I would tell them to go forth and multiply.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 24, 2016, 08:49:18 PM
Now with paint and decals - but still in heavy gloss for the decals - doesn't look right for a WD, matt is next!

Also added the cylinder draincocks, and still forgot to put back on the cab handrails! Tender was also re-branded as this is likely to end up weathered, and BR late crest is more appropriate.

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7772/27128257132_c14cc491fa_b.jpg)

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7346/26949898430_117a853fc6_b.jpg)

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7658/27128257142_7905188722_b.jpg)

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7562/27190988326_0206733f02_b.jpg)

(https://c6.staticflickr.com/8/7126/27225189525_69aeeb6b25_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: paulprice on May 24, 2016, 08:53:25 PM
Dr AL

You have done it again, you have produced another great locomotive
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Newportnobby on May 24, 2016, 08:56:29 PM
I'm really looking forward to the WD getting down and dirty :drool:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: belstone on May 24, 2016, 08:56:55 PM
I think BR had some special matt brown paint that they used on WDs, I've never seen a photo of a clean black one...
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 24, 2016, 10:29:07 PM
Further comparison with a standard (well, with added weathering) WD 2-8-0.

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7104/26620077833_59d8f90d51_b.jpg)

(https://c5.staticflickr.com/8/7326/26950330100_41382432f9_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/8/7618/26950329360_e4b77398b5_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: jayncee on May 25, 2016, 08:16:22 AM
That is looking fantastic - great piece of modelling

J
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: zwilnik on May 25, 2016, 10:47:33 AM
Stunning!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on May 25, 2016, 11:02:11 PM
Pretty much done to first pass now. Needs cleaning of some dust, but not matt coated.

And I remembered the cab handrails!

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/8/7381/27181167391_f5dcdefcba_b.jpg)

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7725/27181167731_49621c31a3_b.jpg)

(https://c7.staticflickr.com/8/7378/27216694006_17f995f5e1_b.jpg)

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7199/27181167121_9068a6c2d7_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: paulprice on May 26, 2016, 06:51:35 AM
Truly stunning, and I bet everyone on here for once would agree with me
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: keerout on May 27, 2016, 05:34:22 PM
Yep!
  8)  :thumbsup:  :drool:
(lost for words)
Gerard   :wave:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - WD + WD = WD?
Post by: Dr Al on July 25, 2016, 12:32:52 AM
A pottering project that's been ambling along now and then is an old Langley L3. It was bought secondhand from another member for a mere £25, on an old Poole chassis.

I have rebuilt the chassis with new armature, wheels from Bachmann tool 94xx and bogie wheels from B1s.

Loco is in the process of superdetailing - N-brass handrails, brass buffers, and coal rails.

(https://c4.staticflickr.com/9/8618/28448075211_083b79e663_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8176/27909303144_22a9d139fb_b.jpg)

(https://c8.staticflickr.com/9/8614/27910001743_ecfc278749_b.jpg)

Still a bit rough, so will need some cleaning up in due course, though the langley castings aren't obviously as sharp as a modern injection moulded model.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Langley L3 refurb
Post by: Newportnobby on July 25, 2016, 09:47:31 AM
It looks very handsome even in these early stages, Alan.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Langley L3 refurb
Post by: Bealman on July 25, 2016, 10:04:21 AM
Yep. Excellent work.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on March 06, 2017, 11:12:43 PM
Been a while since I updated this thread, but things are on the go.

In particular - something Stanier (one for @paulprice (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4342) ). I've had an old Farish Poole black 5 body knocking about for a long time - some previous owner had removed the handrails and fitted brass ones, so it's always been something I've wanted to use. Looking at prototypes, an obvious contender was to shorten it and make it the basis of a Stanier 2-6-0 Mogul.

Could it be done with what else was out there?

In short, I believe so - I have used the Black 5 body, cut down in length (by cutting out the firebox, filing some off the boiler and rejoining the firebox further forward. The front end was cut off and replace with a front footplate for an old Farish Crab. The cab is also from the crab.

Chassis is Farish Crab, fitted with new tool Standard 4MT wheels to which are mated the Crab valve gear components. The Crab cylinders have been un-inclined and mounted level.

Tender is a BHE Fowler tender, bought as bare casting, and has been detailed out with a full array of N-brass locos parts.

Still very rough right not, but it's getting the right feel for me of the prototype.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/737/32450813494_e362f74bf3_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/635/33252963426_85ab870170_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2837/33252963076_7271dd2ec8_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/677/32450811934_c4f66087c8_b.jpg)

Given that Bachmann have just released one in OO, it wouldn't surprise me if they beat me to finishing this one in N!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Steamie+ on March 07, 2017, 05:38:08 AM
I think that will be a beautiful looking engine and the work you have done is brilliant, i would never ever contemplate doing anything like that.   :thumbsup: :thumbs:

Must keep up with your thread.  :) :)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on March 07, 2017, 09:40:53 AM
Been a while since I updated this thread, but things are on the go.

In particular - something Stanier (one for @paulprice ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4342[/url]) ). I've had an old Farish Poole black 5 body knocking about for a long time - some previous owner had removed the handrails and fitted brass ones, so it's always been something I've wanted to use. Looking at prototypes, an obvious contender was to shorten it and make it the basis of a Stanier 2-6-0 Mogul.

Could it be done with what else was out there?

In short, I believe so - I have used the Black 5 body, cut down in length (by cutting out the firebox, filing some off the boiler and rejoining the firebox further forward. The front end was cut off and replace with a front footplate for an old Farish Crab. The cab is also from the crab.

Chassis is Farish Crab, fitted with new tool Standard 4MT wheels to which are mated the Crab valve gear components. The Crab cylinders have been un-inclined and mounted level.

Tender is a BHE Fowler tender, bought as bare casting, and has been detailed out with a full array of N-brass locos parts.

Still very rough right not, but it's getting the right feel for me of the prototype.

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/737/32450813494_e362f74bf3_b.jpg[/url])

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/635/33252963426_85ab870170_b.jpg[/url])

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2837/33252963076_7271dd2ec8_b.jpg[/url])

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/677/32450811934_c4f66087c8_b.jpg[/url])

Given that Bachmann have just released one in OO, it wouldn't surprise me if they beat me to finishing this one in N!

Cheers,
Alan


Dr Al

I'm in love  :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2:

Not with you of course but the lovely loco
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on March 07, 2017, 10:15:04 AM
That's a smashing build, Alan :drool:
I was only saying to someone at the weekend about the shrink ray hitting the Bachmann one but with current lead times I may be dust on the breeze before anything appears :uneasy:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on March 19, 2017, 08:40:56 PM
Been a while since I updated this thread, but things are on the go.

In particular - something Stanier (one for @paulprice ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4342[/url]) ). I've had an old Farish Poole black 5 body knocking about for a long time - some previous owner had removed the handrails and fitted brass ones, so it's always been something I've wanted to use. Looking at prototypes, an obvious contender was to shorten it and make it the basis of a Stanier 2-6-0 Mogul.

Could it be done with what else was out there?

In short, I believe so - I have used the Black 5 body, cut down in length (by cutting out the firebox, filing some off the boiler and rejoining the firebox further forward. The front end was cut off and replace with a front footplate for an old Farish Crab. The cab is also from the crab.

Chassis is Farish Crab, fitted with new tool Standard 4MT wheels to which are mated the Crab valve gear components. The Crab cylinders have been un-inclined and mounted level.

Tender is a BHE Fowler tender, bought as bare casting, and has been detailed out with a full array of N-brass locos parts.

Still very rough right not, but it's getting the right feel for me of the prototype.

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/737/32450813494_e362f74bf3_b.jpg[/url])

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/635/33252963426_85ab870170_b.jpg[/url])

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2837/33252963076_7271dd2ec8_b.jpg[/url])

([url]https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/677/32450811934_c4f66087c8_b.jpg[/url])

Given that Bachmann have just released one in OO, it wouldn't surprise me if they beat me to finishing this one in N!

Cheers,
Alan


Dr Al

I'm in love  :heart2: :heart2: :heart2: :heart2:

Not with you of course but the lovely loco


Dr Al

What N Brass fittings have you used
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on March 19, 2017, 11:22:35 PM
Dr Al

What N Brass fittings have you used

Most of the brass parts:

- coal rails,
- buffers,
- brake standards
- handrails
- dome and top feed (heavily modified)
- safety valves

Cheers
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 06, 2017, 12:30:49 AM
Progressing on two of these models, and getting them close to completion.

The first is the L3, and thanks must go to @Atso (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) for helping me find reference matering to complete the detail on the bunker correctly. Also sandpipes, steps and cab handrails have been added. The dusting of primer is already being stripped - what a horrible finish!

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4177/34434680436_b46c01b7cd_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4167/34315860782_83294e56bd_b.jpg)

Also, details been added to the Stanier Mogul - front end completed, cylinder drains added, slide bars on valve gear thinned to be straight profile, AWS gear added to footplate as well as other details. Dome has been filed down, and sits less tall, though still a little. The cylinder block has been straightene as it sat a little front down. This loco just needs the handrails finally secured, a reversing rod fitted and a few other small parts (like a whistle!).

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4157/34315859652_e7e38a63fd_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2815/33633580844_15b350f188_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4172/34345399721_a96c684fb5_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on May 06, 2017, 04:20:09 AM
Just  :jawdropping:
Superb, Alan.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: trkilliman on May 06, 2017, 07:08:09 AM
That is some brilliant improvisation and modelling.

It sort of spurs me on to get stuck into the Langley County bodies and N brass parts I have in a drawer.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Stevie DC on May 06, 2017, 07:55:44 AM
Awesome work Alan! I'm glad the bits I found were useful to you.

I'm really impressed with that Stanier mogul as well, that's really captured the look and character of the prototype.

I can't wait to see them finished but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you go about applying the mixed traffic lining transfers (I've got three locos to do in that livery!).
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 06, 2017, 09:43:50 AM
Truly brilliant, I think my version may go off to the scrap yard.

Does it have to be painted in BR black, lined LMS red is good,
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 06, 2017, 10:32:41 AM
I can't wait to see them finished but I'm really looking forward to seeing how you go about applying the mixed traffic lining transfers (I've got three locos to do in that livery!).

The current new formulation of Fox's BR Lining decals are very good - make the lining very easy (no separate black central band to apply now, and they are in better register).

I did this basic refurbishment (no superdetailing/handrails etc) of a Langley E5 recently, and the decalling is all Fox, done in about an hour.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4193/34352410291_1bf5c7621c_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Stevie DC on May 06, 2017, 12:25:27 PM
Thanks Alan, that E5 looks great! I was busy admiring the surviving E4 at Bluebell last monday!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 07, 2017, 09:06:25 PM
After stripping the L3 (again!) the paint and primer went on correctly this time. Getting very close now to completion, just need to paint the driving wheel rims, gloss varnish and decal out.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4177/34516430935_692517b9b2_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4181/34475052516_37f6445349_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4167/34475052376_4b13858d64_b.jpg)

I'm pretty pleased with this, after starting out with a £25 secondhand model on an original Poole chassis.

And a quick project - PD Marsh sentinel, total build time 1 hour, plus painting at same time as L3. This one will be finished for sale in due course.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4155/34475052226_4da6e06e72_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on May 08, 2017, 09:24:58 AM
 :goggleeyes: Marvellous.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Bealman on May 08, 2017, 09:40:05 AM
Uber cool.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 08, 2017, 11:15:42 PM
Another step progression.

Sentinel getting very close. I also swapped the chimneys around - the instruction sheet indicated the tall one should be on the roof, which is not right! Lesson reinforced - always check the prototype!

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4187/34541676785_d70a33493b_b.jpg)

L3 is painted and decalled, just needing to dry completely and then get dullcoted

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4179/34380632972_156ddb2f0e_b.jpg)

Stanier Mogul is complete, and first coat of primer applied. This has shown up *a lot* of blemishes, and this is perhaps not surprising given how rough the original Black 5 body was. This'll need a couple of rounds of tidying up before paint can really progress.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4173/34411399371_33fd24a9de_b.jpg)

And lastly an A3 for an identity change. Oddly, Dapol's "Gladiateur" has a double chimney, but a round dome - I don't know that this is correct, and certainly wasn't for the intended identity - 60111 Enterprise. So a new dome had to be fitted, and given that the A3 banjo dome sat further back than the round dome, the boiler needed repaired and boiler band and lining reinstated where this dome once was. Precision Brunswick green doesn't match Dapol's version (it does Bachfars...) so the dome looks a bit different. However, this is to be weathered, so it will all be tied together in time.

All the usual details for A3s have been fitted - bufferbeam cutout removed, new coupling hook, cylinder drains, wheel painting. Still needs a speedo drive fitted from an A4.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4162/34411399071_f8222c547a_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 09, 2017, 09:17:31 AM
The Mogul looks brilliant, totally brilliant
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Stevie DC on May 09, 2017, 11:48:06 AM
The Mogul looks brilliant, totally brilliant

Far from it for me to agree with anything Mr Price says but in this case he is 100% spot on with his comment!  Great work Alan! 8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: R Marshall on May 11, 2017, 07:51:01 PM
Another step progression.

Sentinel getting very close. I also swapped the chimneys around - the instruction sheet indicated the tall one should be on the roof, which is not right! Lesson reinforced - always check the prototype!

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4187/34541676785_d70a33493b_b.jpg)

L3 is painted and decalled, just needing to dry completely and then get dullcoted

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4179/34380632972_156ddb2f0e_b.jpg)

Stanier Mogul is complete, and first coat of primer applied. This has shown up *a lot* of blemishes, and this is perhaps not surprising given how rough the original Black 5 body was. This'll need a couple of rounds of tidying up before paint can really progress.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4173/34411399371_33fd24a9de_b.jpg)

And lastly an A3 for an identity change. Oddly, Dapol's "Gladiateur" has a double chimney, but a round dome - I don't know that this is correct, and certainly wasn't for the intended identity - 60111 Enterprise. So a new dome had to be fitted, and given that the A3 banjo dome sat further back than the round dome, the boiler needed repaired and boiler band and lining reinstated where this dome once was. Precision Brunswick green doesn't match Dapol's version (it does Bachfars...) so the dome looks a bit different. However, this is to be weathered, so it will all be tied together in time.

All the usual details for A3s have been fitted - bufferbeam cutout removed, new coupling hook, cylinder drains, wheel painting. Still needs a speedo drive fitted from an A4.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4162/34411399071_f8222c547a_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

I love that L3.

As for 60070 Gladiateur, RCTS Part 2A shows it with double chimney and round dome in 1959 (Fig 76).

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 11, 2017, 09:28:50 PM
The Mogul looks brilliant, totally brilliant

Far from it for me to agree with anything Mr Price says but in this case he is 100% spot on with his comment!  Great work Alan! 8)

Gee thanks Steve
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 12, 2017, 12:37:56 AM
As for 60070 Gladiateur, RCTS Part 2A shows it with double chimney and round dome in 1959 (Fig 76).

Interesting - thanks. I guess that must have been pretty rare as A3s go.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Stevie DC on May 12, 2017, 02:50:23 PM
Enterprise looks lovely Alan. That's one that is on my to do list, although she'd look very different in the thirties, apple green, single chimney and right hand drive!  :worried:

Just out of question, who's name plates did you use? I've still got to source some for Humorist, Modelmaster's look like a good choice.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 12, 2017, 02:53:25 PM
Just out of question, who's name plates did you use? I've still got to source some for Humorist, Modelmaster's look like a good choice.

No idea - they were bought secondhand (unused) from someone on list.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: R Marshall on May 12, 2017, 08:06:19 PM
As for 60070 Gladiateur, RCTS Part 2A shows it with double chimney and round dome in 1959 (Fig 76).

Interesting - thanks. I guess that must have been pretty rare as A3s go.

Cheers,
Alan

The only other I can find is 60091 Captain Cuttle in 1962 (RCTS fig 82), with smoke deflectors in that case (the picture of 60070 is without deflectors, which were added in September 1961).

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 12, 2017, 10:07:42 PM
The L3 has been completed. It took a chassis clean and overhaul to get it going, such has been the length of time that the power unit has been idle. However, it runs superbly, despite being Poole design chassis (albeit updated with Bachmann wheels and armature).

Just needs the bunker filled with coal. Undecided on fitting a front coupling - may do so in time.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4170/34232869450_86db4d4368_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4194/34456946252_0940e3f563_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4177/34232868660_422225236c_b.jpg)

Next up are the bodywork cleanup tasks on the Stanier Mogul.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Highland Handlebar on May 12, 2017, 10:23:57 PM
with reference to your previous post will this one do?
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/5852-120517222151.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51768)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/5852-120517222220.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51769)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/5852-120517222334.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51770)

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 13, 2017, 01:11:51 PM
Interesting model there sir - what's the basis of it - the Worsley scratch-aid perchance?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Highland Handlebar on May 13, 2017, 01:25:31 PM
yes with a lot of n brass loco fittings and a 3mt chassis
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 16, 2017, 11:40:17 PM
3 hours of intimacy with Fox transfers, and 30 mins of painting touch ups, and buffer beams and the bulk is now done on the Stanier Mogul. Still far too gloss, but necessary for the decals, and that will be toned right down in the next pass.

This matt finish, refit of tender wheels, some adjustment of the drawbar, coaling and giving the chassis a once over (long time since it's run!) and she'll be done.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4155/34542659042_9f4677baae_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4176/34542658692_58eb812023_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Highland Handlebar on May 17, 2017, 12:12:28 AM
that is very nice I wish I could achieve the same standard. incidentally I took a non flash photo of the V1 and it looks a bit better
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/5852-170517001028.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51912)

here are a couple of others
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/5852-170517001124.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51913)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/51/5852-170517001150.jpeg) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=51914)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 17, 2017, 09:11:45 AM
3 hours of intimacy with Fox transfers, and 30 mins of painting touch ups, and buffer beams and the bulk is now done on the Stanier Mogul. Still far too gloss, but necessary for the decals, and that will be toned right down in the next pass.

This matt finish, refit of tender wheels, some adjustment of the drawbar, coaling and giving the chassis a once over (long time since it's run!) and she'll be done.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4155/34542659042_9f4677baae_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4176/34542658692_58eb812023_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Truly stunning you are a genius
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on May 17, 2017, 09:47:39 AM
By heck, but we have some truly gifted modellers on this forum :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Hailstone on May 17, 2017, 10:46:43 AM
3 hours of intimacy with Fox transfers, and 30 mins of painting touch ups, and buffer beams and the bulk is now done on the Stanier Mogul. Still far too gloss, but necessary for the decals, and that will be toned right down in the next pass.

This matt finish, refit of tender wheels, some adjustment of the drawbar, coaling and giving the chassis a once over (long time since it's run!) and she'll be done.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4155/34542659042_9f4677baae_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4176/34542658692_58eb812023_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Truly stunning you are a genius

I second that!

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Stevie DC on May 17, 2017, 01:36:26 PM
Wow! Just wow!  8) 8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 17, 2017, 08:46:52 PM
Mogul is now mostly complete. It is missing a whistle, coal and needs a little tidy up of the cylinders and one tender vent. Oh and a mechanical check up!

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4170/34590396131_a28a3b3ee5_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4188/34681252406_c0dd640f7a_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4163/34681251536_6f86fdc30a_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4192/34590395661_2fa6d41221_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on May 17, 2017, 08:52:40 PM
You haven't mentioned blackening the motion, Alan.
Just wondered if that's on the 'menu' or if it would make everything 'too black'?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 17, 2017, 09:00:47 PM
You haven't mentioned blackening the motion, Alan.
Just wondered if that's on the 'menu' or if it would make everything 'too black'?

Totally fair point Mick.

The answer is almost certainly yes. A wash with Humbrol 85 will bring it down to match Bachfar's more current valve gear. First is getting the mechanicals set again though.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 18, 2017, 09:32:27 AM
Mogul is now mostly complete. It is missing a whistle, coal and needs a little tidy up of the cylinders and one tender vent. Oh and a mechanical check up!

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4170/34590396131_a28a3b3ee5_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4188/34681252406_c0dd640f7a_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4163/34681251536_6f86fdc30a_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4192/34590395661_2fa6d41221_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Truly stunning
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: joe cassidy on May 18, 2017, 06:37:43 PM
Al, you are up there with Mr. Gareth Collier.

If I was as good as you guys I would be tempted to go professional ?

You could work as a partnership given your complementary regional/historical preferences.

Best regards,


Joe
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 18, 2017, 07:00:37 PM
Al, you are up there with Mr. Gareth Collier.

If I was as good as you guys I would be tempted to go professional ?

You could work as a partnership given your complementary regional/historical preferences.

I doubt one could make a salary out of this kind of thing!

Plus, finding source components on a larger scale would be difficult - that model used parts from an old Black 5, a Crab, a Bachfar 4MT - nobody'd pay to buy all those locos (£150 ish before you even do anything) to do a conversion I don't think!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: joe cassidy on May 18, 2017, 07:32:35 PM
For your raw materials you could club together with Ozymandias and Paul Price. They seem to have access to an unending stream of old locos, kits, bits & bobs etc.

Best regards,


Joe
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Roy L S on May 18, 2017, 08:41:59 PM
Just to add to what others have said Alan, the Stanier Mogul is an absolutely top job, it looks superb.

Regards

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 18, 2017, 09:04:24 PM
For your raw materials you could club together with Ozymandias and Paul Price. They seem to have access to an unending stream of old locos, kits, bits & bobs etc.

Best regards,


Joe
I don't I only have 6 trains, honest................The Domestic Overlord may read this  :help:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 19, 2017, 01:02:31 AM
For your raw materials you could club together with Ozymandias and Paul Price. They seem to have access to an unending stream of old locos, kits, bits & bobs etc.

I've been in N 20 years now, and even I struggle to pull together enough parts to do some of these models despite accumulating a vast amount in that time. So getting parts is patchy at best - who would pay £150+ or so for the component parts, and then add the labour to build such a thing (considerable - 20 hrs+ perhaps?)? Not many I think!

There's a lot on this kind of thing on Tony Wright's RMWeb thread - discussing the value attributed to kitbuilt locos, the cost of pro-builds and the likes. Most OO gauge builds of standard kits plus pro-paint is thick end of in the region of £500 each in his estimation. One can easily then estimate quite how many you'd need to do to make a living in a very very small marketplace (a marketplace that must be a very low percentage of the actual N Gauge market, that itself not being large).

It'd risk becoming a chore rather than an enjoyment to build 10 Stanier Moguls or whatever, with the pressure of knowing your bills depended on it, and their unique "I did that" factor would also be rather diluted.

But I thank you for the compliment!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Hailstone on May 19, 2017, 01:30:13 AM
For your raw materials you could club together with Ozymandias and Paul Price. They seem to have access to an unending stream of old locos, kits, bits & bobs etc.

I've been in N 20 years now, and even I struggle to pull together enough parts to do some of these models despite accumulating a vast amount in that time. So getting parts is patchy at best - who would pay £150+ or so for the component parts, and then add the labour to build such a thing (considerable - 20 hrs+ perhaps?)? Not many I think!

There's a lot on this kind of thing on Tony Wright's RMWeb thread - discussing the value attributed to kitbuilt locos, the cost of pro-builds and the likes. Most OO gauge builds of standard kits plus pro-paint is thick end of in the region of £500 each in his estimation. One can easily then estimate quite how many you'd need to do to make a living in a very very small marketplace (a marketplace that must be a very low percentage of the actual N Gauge market, that itself not being large).

It'd risk becoming a chore rather than an enjoyment to build 10 Stanier Moguls or whatever, with the pressure of knowing your bills depended on it, and their unique "I did that" factor would also be rather diluted.

But I thank you for the compliment!

Cheers,
Alan

I learned this when I built my 28xx when I got impatient waiting for Dapol to produce their 38xx and found that the cost of the components alone was over £120 without the cost of time to build and paint even to a basic standard, never mind weathering! I think that we are spoiled with the amount of ready to run stock that we now have access to compared to even 10 years ago

Regards,

Alex
 
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: longbow on May 19, 2017, 02:09:09 AM
Quite so. RTR does not seem so expensive once you cost out the alternatives.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: paulprice on May 19, 2017, 09:06:12 AM
For your raw materials you could club together with Ozymandias and Paul Price. They seem to have access to an unending stream of old locos, kits, bits & bobs etc.

I've been in N 20 years now, and even I struggle to pull together enough parts to do some of these models despite accumulating a vast amount in that time. So getting parts is patchy at best - who would pay £150+ or so for the component parts, and then add the labour to build such a thing (considerable - 20 hrs+ perhaps?)? Not many I think!

There's a lot on this kind of thing on Tony Wright's RMWeb thread - discussing the value attributed to kitbuilt locos, the cost of pro-builds and the likes. Most OO gauge builds of standard kits plus pro-paint is thick end of in the region of £500 each in his estimation. One can easily then estimate quite how many you'd need to do to make a living in a very very small marketplace (a marketplace that must be a very low percentage of the actual N Gauge market, that itself not being large).

It'd risk becoming a chore rather than an enjoyment to build 10 Stanier Moguls or whatever, with the pressure of knowing your bills depended on it, and their unique "I did that" factor would also be rather diluted.

But I thank you for the compliment!

Cheers,
Alan

I agree with Dr Al

I have been asked to make a number of models for people, the latest was an Ivatt 4 2-6-0, after a chap had seen mine running at an exhibition. When I went through the details of how I built mine, how I considered on the cheap (ended up modifying to RTR crab chassis to get one sweet runner, though its decided to play up a little), the components alone topped £100.

The chap then said if it was that expensive why did I do it, my explanation was that partly I must be mad, but I have amassed a few buts and bobs over the years that could be cobbled together to make a model. The problem is as the builder we accept a few less than accurate compromises but paying customers would not do this???

Even though I sometime baulk at the cost of RTR stock, it is in my opinion really good value for money, its just a pity that as modellers we always seem to want stock that's not available, well at least I do.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 19, 2017, 10:36:36 AM
The chap then said if it was that expensive why did I do it, my explanation was that partly I must be mad, but I have amassed a few buts and bobs over the years that could be cobbled together to make a model.

You do it primarily for the enjoyment and challenge - it's not all about money....

On money though, I have to say that the Mogul didn't cost £150 in parts - it cost £50 - £30 for a busted Farish Crab, which donated its chassis block, keeper plate and valve gear, and £10 for a BHE Fowler tender bare kit, and probably ~£10 of N-Brass detail parts. I had the Farish Black 5 body already from a bos of junk, so that cost essentially nothing. Therefore it's not that expensive to do these things if you are sharp in obtaining bits - I obtain scrappers and damaged models to work from, and boxes of spares and 'junk' (not to me!). Even if the model has no immediate use to me I may still grab it for parts that might be useful in the future. But I think a 'customer' would probably baulk at obtaining a model with those as a starting point, hence to do this for a 'customer' you'd likely have to buy your parts new - which is another reason the cost is so much higher.

Even though I sometime baulk at the cost of RTR stock, it is in my opinion really good value for money, its just a pity that as modellers we always seem to want stock that's not available, well at least I do.

Whilst I have plenty of RTR, the thing about it is that everyone's is the same unless you start modifying, detailing or improving (and I include mechanical improvement, even if not cosmetic in that) - something that relatively few do.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - A3 identity change
Post by: Dr Al on May 28, 2017, 11:24:13 PM
Getting the quick identity change of the A3 closer to completion. Due to the need to move the dome, some rectification of the hole and boiler band that the old dome sat on was needed. None of the Brunswick greens quite match Dapol's, so weathering is the order of the day to merge all together. Needs anotehr pass, some oil representation on the valve gear and a little more I think.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4224/34913897626_6f00b5fb9f_z.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4224/34566945950_818b4eef82_b.jpg)

Also fitted the speedo drive from an A4.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4227/34913897296_3f639d25a3_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on May 29, 2017, 09:51:22 AM
One word........masterly
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Modern image detour
Post by: Dr Al on May 29, 2017, 01:32:55 PM
With a bank holiday providing a smidge of spare time, a small detour onto something completely different.

Upgrading older models is something relatively few seem to contemplate, instead demanding manufacturers retool. Pragmatically, though, so older models actually are still pretty respectable with a bit of upgrading.

One such is the Farish class 90. The original releases of these are pretty good for their age - Bachmann's version has the bogies set too far apart so needs that also addressed to improve. The originals benefit from mechanical overhaul and fitting of Bachmann wheels.

Also, the bare front buffer beam can be populated with pipes - I took many of mine from spare detail packs from locos that can't have these fitted due to couplings etc. The 90 can have a fully populated beams at both ends if you accept the coupling and buffer beam remains attached to the bogie. Removing the moulding line on the buffers is another small touch.

Before:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4220/34925615666_4a2caa7338_b.jpg)

After:

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4197/34925616876_be9ba073bc_b.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4196/34925616236_91f33244f3_b.jpg)

I still need the buffing plates that locate between the front buffers - does anyone know if anyone makes these, or if I'll have to scratchbuild? Need these on the early passenger 90s, though later they were removed from many freight locos.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: robert shrives on May 29, 2017, 06:43:25 PM
Hi
Pretty certain TPM made them but they are the same as on the Dapol 33 packs for the 33/1.
And yes you are right some small modeller based upgrades can do the honours - latest N mag has Grahame Hedge`s excellent 50 article.

Cheers
Robert 
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - A3 identity change
Post by: Roy L S on May 29, 2017, 06:49:38 PM
Getting the quick identity change of the A3 closer to completion. Due to the need to move the dome, some rectification of the hole and boiler band that the old dome sat on was needed. None of the Brunswick greens quite match Dapol's, so weathering is the order of the day to merge all together. Needs anotehr pass, some oil representation on the valve gear and a little more I think.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4224/34913897626_6f00b5fb9f_z.jpg)

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4224/34566945950_818b4eef82_b.jpg)

Also fitted the speedo drive from an A4.

(https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4227/34913897296_3f639d25a3_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Excellent work Alan, the weathering looks just right.

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: maridunian on May 30, 2017, 12:10:42 PM
Upgrading older models is something relatively few seem to contemplate, instead demanding manufacturers retool. Pragmatically, though, so older models actually are still pretty respectable with a bit of upgrading.


Hear, hear! I think @belstone (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2569) described it as "Much more fun than waving your credit card around in a shop". You also create something unique you're proud to own.

Mike
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 30, 2017, 12:35:47 PM
In response to the comments about cost of some of the projects, there are times when an extra bit of work can save pounds, this Adams A12 "Jubilee" (nicknamed after Queen Victoria's Jubilee) only cost me for the driving wheels (ABS/Beaver) and the Union Mills tender drive, and some brass tube and sheet, chassis block cut from a scrap loco, pony truck similar.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/l8Gs5NeId8fQdWeTnhT6gDM2CeWSkftE7Spb4tzHgeI5YdD7k44xpNj1xUKGnHKwgqtaPrmZO3jBDg=w605-h330)

Then some paint and decals

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/SGNJkAkDVZsUV1OAKCTo9q5TDBenSzs1wvPzfyurXkzl8EFhImGwjTCbClg8Md97-QRuK9A4APSi_Q=w665-h330)

Similar story for this Drummond K10

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/u3wEVaH3JTAJUEpFB6NWdSmwA0vuPj2kUsyiVcowACvffbe7hT-GHSNphwHX6dyDT669b4pABKl-MQ=w690-h330)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-xEqco0aJGrHwns_f51VBKmkndW2-EF69YRYxFQhD20zF74M3rgZkVt-KDrNJdIJp2jglbqhzuQRIw=w765-h330)

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on May 30, 2017, 12:37:55 PM
That's rather dinky Mike - I do like the way you've managed to keep the very small nature of the prototype tender while still having it driven.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dorsetmike on May 30, 2017, 01:24:06 PM
The A12 tender body was from a Worsley Works "kit" for  a Drummond loco, forget which now, either a Caley Jumbo or LSWR 700, the K10 was cut down from a Langley S15 Kit, which,  being white metal the bit extra weight gives it a bit better pulling power than the A12. A full load of coal helps too!

For boiler barrels I use brass tube, turn it in a lathe removing a little metal from between smoke box and boiler bands which are left unturned. For the firebox I cut a "T" shaped slot and open out the sides, if it were a Belpaire box thren it would need building up.

Cabs can be a pig to solder unless you have a variable temperature iron and a number of different melting point solders, make a join wit h highest MP solder, say cab side to firebox back plate, turn iron temp down, take next lower MP solder make next joint, say other side to back plate, reduce iron temp, next lower MP, add roof, reduce temp and MP  for footplate.

This level of scratch building should only need resorting to for locos that can't be hacked from existing RTR or kits. For example this is the Langley Urie S15 as intended with Fleischmann chassis and tender drive

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/7gY27r7EqPHQ7bxrsYar0IJ-oBHMSbzBTRciu0HOskxHjKKKQ1KHhEOg1xR60GqAS4uef7EFJv9Pjg=w702-h330)

That is only correct for 7 of the class between 1934 and about mid 50's, Maunsell built more of the class with a few changes, that look like this

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/cSzKixsZP-4JlB3RkPssWDodtWrFFstLXs6eqNr6fxhsxGAkjVwjPmombZdVheXYtumrLKlaGte0VA=w710-h330)

The cab roof to the composite loading gauge can either be filed or replaced with sheet metal, the tender body is from the BHE N15 kit, with either a Minitrix 2077 tender drive or a Union Mills with extra wheels. Bogie side frames from Worsley Works, N brass or BHE axle boxes. I now find that a Farish B1 loco chassis will fit and is a bit cheaper and easier to find than the Fleischmann, alternatively a chassis with 6' drivers with a few minor body tweaks will make an H15.

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/f4TBiPT1OJjhTAJBNQ0d3z-z6b88Rf8evCtBfMpQMRWDKh-t2qAww2Syp8rHE93jUU2Hu-rgCwOZbQ=w1169-h330)

The Langley S15 kit tender and Fleischmann drive find themselves behind the T9 that supplied the UM tender drive, said T9 having had cab and splashers narrowed

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/1BQswCgAcq51FJDpP0fXdIH5HQjB_HNz1kvleSi8eFxsmgFutiWnL5CxwvCC2RLVGCrhFwDwXxpzjA=w1011-h330)

(Apologies for partial thread hijack)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on January 03, 2018, 04:35:46 PM
It's been a while since the last post, but there's always stuff on the go, and particular I find the Xmas period a good time to clear off and finish some projects that are long overdue.

This one in particular - an elderly Beaver J52, which I obtained in a crummily built form probably close on a decade ago. On stripping and cleaning it became clear that the castings were past their best, in particular the front bufferbeam and footplate literally crumbled. This rather put back what was originally going to be a simple rebuild. The whole front end had to be rebuilt in stratchmade brass. The front and rear spectacle plates also had to be replaced. This was the state of it for about the last 2 years:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4589/38594677135_a6496e45a0_b.jpg)

It's been long overdue to get finished, so some determination was aquired and over about a month or so the remaining detail fitted or scratchbuilt to get it complete:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4646/39442933942_e0c879ec6c_b.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4682/25603260308_d093e2290c_b.jpg)

Finally, paint completed probably the longest build I've had:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4726/39443196322_c64c60bc99_b.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4590/39443196002_96d8b034df_b.jpg)

Just needs coaled now to hide the solder points on the rear spectacle plate bars. But it's finally off the bench!

Others moving forward include a standard 4, acquired in a bag of bits and noted to have very nicely attached separate handrails, making it worth working into a good model, even though it's missing pretty much everthing else. Someone spent quite a bit of time doing that, so it'll be nice to finish it up.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4689/39443195772_80e0333154_b.jpg)

A project bumbling along also has been this GEM Fowler 4P tank - originally was going to be finished fairly as standard, with Farish B5 chassis, but I realised there's better possibility with the 3MT chassis, so some extensive shoehorning was done to get it in. Still needs work to sit it down properly, fit the DCC gibbins (or remove it) and fit a rear bogie. Most of the loco body is fairly far advanced in detail though.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4690/27696145679_a3021ac1af_b.jpg)

A new aquisition is one of Atso's D49s, which currently is being sized up on the appropriate chassis. This should be a reasonably simple job, once printing is cleaned up. Tender will need more work - anyone with a spare/scrap Dapol B1 let me know - I need tenders!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/27696145759_2627e584d0_b.jpg)

Finally is a southern N15, nearly done apart from names and numbers and soon to head to a new owner.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4597/27696145889_a46235299a_b.jpg)

Others on the bench too, but early days to show them  ;)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Hailstone on January 03, 2018, 04:52:46 PM
Alan,

can you give a little detail on the make up of the N15 such as name of Chassis, body kit etc as it is absolutely stunning (I want one!!) I can see me attempting one in the future

Thanks,

alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on January 03, 2018, 04:55:23 PM
can you give a little detail on the make up of the N15 such as name of Chassis, body kit etc as it is absolutely stunning (I want one!!) I can see me attempting one in the future

BH Enterprises whitemetal kit, on Farish black 5 chassis, NGS front bogie wheels, painted in Phoenix Precision BR green, humbrol 85 and 64, and lined with Fox transfers.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: R Marshall on January 03, 2018, 07:45:48 PM
The J52 looks stunning in black!

Like the N15 too - the bogie tender looks huge.

Lovely work.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Newportnobby on January 03, 2018, 09:08:41 PM
To quote dear old Leslie Neilsen "Nice Beaver", right down to blackening the gubbins.
I, too, like the N15 :drool:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: thebrighton on January 03, 2018, 09:47:03 PM
I've 5 or 6 N15's built from this kit with both cab and tender types. It was a while ago but if my ageing memory is working I think I used Duchess chassis instead of Black 5 ones for a more accurate wheel size.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Milton Rail on January 05, 2018, 07:59:35 AM

A new aquisition is one of Atso's D49s, which currently is being sized up on the appropriate chassis. This should be a reasonably simple job, once printing is cleaned up. Tender will need more work - anyone with a spare/scrap Dapol B1 let me know - I need tenders!

([url]https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4640/27696145759_2627e584d0_b.jpg[/url])

Cheers,
Alan


Hi Alan, some lovely work, I need to follow your lead and find some determination to complete some projects!

I have long wanted to try and develop a D49 project, purely to try and have a running model of 246 Morayshire, as preserved by the SRPS at Bo'Ness - I was intrigued by the post above, it looks a really crisp print - what chassis have you used on it?

@Atso (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) - is there a D49 "shire" in the pipeline?  I had a look on your website last night and couldn't see one.

Cheers,
Andrew
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on January 05, 2018, 10:59:59 AM
I've 5 or 6 N15's built from this kit with both cab and tender types. It was a while ago but if my ageing memory is working I think I used Duchess chassis instead of Black 5 ones for a more accurate wheel size.

Undoubtedly true - though for pragmatism this was done stock, as I have a stack of B5 chassis to use up!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on January 05, 2018, 11:02:36 AM
I have long wanted to try and develop a D49 project, purely to try and have a running model of 246 Morayshire, as preserved by the SRPS at Bo'Ness - I was intrigued by the post above, it looks a really crisp print - what chassis have you used on it?


This is Dapol Schools loco, and Dapol B1 tender chassis. I need more B1s as this one's rough, but will do for starting.

@Atso ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213[/url]) - is there a D49 "shire" in the pipeline?  I had a look on your website last night and couldn't see one.


This isn't a new project - has been on Steve's own thread for a while - there's a good few pages to click through:
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35409.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=35409.0)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - N15, D49
Post by: Dr Al on January 09, 2018, 10:39:55 PM
Progress has been made on N15, and D49.

N15 is virtually done - she is just waiting for her coal to set in the tender.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4764/24735089947_cc8094750b_b.jpg)

The D49 has had detailing done and a further pass of smoothing and primer. The top lamp iron needs some tidying up, and a final clean and primer coat.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4625/39573518762_09c779ce86_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Dr Al on January 30, 2018, 12:07:45 AM
The standard 4MT has progressed from fairly bare to nearing the point where final paint can go on.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4632/39975456451_241f58e082_b.jpg)

Dummy front frames and a boiler underside do need added, as this daylight isn't quite right!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4743/26103000288_9993019df3_b.jpg)

If you ever get a Langley kit of the 4MT, make sure you get the casting for the RHS below footplate pipework - otherwise you'll need to make your own - not the simplest of tasks, and this representation that I concocted isn't 100% perfect, but a reasonable represent ation:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4767/25105130617_88efc4c041_b.jpg)

The tender is also a little further away from the loco than I'd like, though this pipework clashes if closed up much further so I need to think of some adjustments to get the optimum. It's already closer than my previous 4MT though.

The front end does show the age of the Langley castings - in primer these are exposed rather cruelly, but once painted back the details should overpower them:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4676/26102999978_7036103e27_b.jpg)

The detail bits, buffers, pipework are all spare Farish bits. The front handrail is N-Brass and the lamp irons are staples. I had to replace the front steps too as these were missing, so some scrap whitemetal ones of unknown origin (and non-matching!) were fettled to be the same shape and the correct shape for the 4MT and soldered on.

All going well the hard parts of this are now done - just final parts, black paint and lining left.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Train Waiting on January 30, 2018, 08:40:31 AM

If you ever get a Langley kit of the 4MT, make sure you get the casting for the RHS below footplate pipework - otherwise you'll need to make your own - not the simplest of tasks, and this representation that I concocted isn't 100% perfect, but a reasonable representation:

It certainly looks like injectors and the associated pipework to me, Alan.

A very good-looking locomotive.  The middle-sized BR 'Standards' are attractive engines; perhaps not in the conventional sense.  For some reason that I cannot explain I particularly like the '3MT' 2-6-0.

Thank you very much and best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Something Stanier
Post by: Hailstone on January 31, 2018, 02:02:19 PM
All of the BR standards had both the injectors mounted on the fireman's side, the steam valves can be seen just above the running plate and were controlled via long rods with LMS style brass wheels in the cab, the water valve handles being mounted just above the cab floor so that either could be operated from a seated position.

hope this helps

Alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on February 04, 2018, 11:30:46 PM
You can have it in any colour, so long as it's black:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4696/39376442054_9c6688d57a_b.jpg)

The paintwork is done apart from a final matt coat. The chassis now really needs the work - clean up from its former life under a B1.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Stevie DC on February 05, 2018, 09:47:10 AM
Lovely job on that 4MT Alan!  8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on February 05, 2018, 11:04:02 AM
Lovely job on that 4MT Alan!  8)

Thanks - I always find it satisfying to complete a model someone else has started to a good standard (in this case one where the handrails had been neatly carved off and replaced with all soldered separates) - hopefully it turned out as they would have liked themselves!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Hailstone on February 05, 2018, 12:47:08 PM
Nice job Alan, especially as Langley kits are a bit crude by todays standards

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on February 05, 2018, 02:22:34 PM
The chassis now really needs the work - clean up from its former life under a B1.


That would account for the green tinge, Alan. I couldn't imagine it was plant life :no:
Great job.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on February 07, 2018, 07:57:08 PM
4MT is cosmetically beasically complete. Tender was re-crested (and the top replaced, for reasons that will become apparent in a future project....) and warning flashes added. Dullcoted, and remaining paintwork cleaned from wheels.

Remaining work is needed primarily on the chassis - mechanical clean up, cylinders and front frames need improving, and I think the whole model will be weathered to a medium or heavy level. But for now, it's a usable model.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4752/39240228255_36b8a1588d_b.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4766/28358646009_d7770e9074_b.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4705/40106358852_162b56de90_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Stevie DC on February 07, 2018, 08:11:37 PM
Lovely work Alan!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on February 08, 2018, 11:00:25 AM
Smashing :drool:
For the less talented like me why, oh why, can't someone (preferably Farish) do a RTR version? :(
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on February 09, 2018, 09:05:55 AM
why, can't someone (preferably Farish) do a RTR version? :(

I have another to do, if it was of interest to you Nobby.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on February 09, 2018, 10:05:18 AM
why, can't someone (preferably Farish) do a RTR version? :(

I have another to do, if it was of interest to you Nobby.

Cheers,
Alan

PM sent, Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 04, 2018, 07:31:39 PM
Many thanks to @newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) for commissioning a 4MT from me - no pressure!

This will be similar to the previous one, with detailing, and also weathering. @newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) is happy for me to share progress on this thread.

So first installment - here's the starting point - the resonably decent Langley kit, with room for improvement:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4761/39500413725_a4684dcf63_b.jpg)

First job was the hardest - get rid of those cast handrails and replace with separates - after a few hours with blades and the soldering iron, this was done. I switched the chimney to a single as needed as well:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4747/25748010357_a1876f5e09_b.jpg)

Next up will be a front end upgrade.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on March 04, 2018, 07:50:16 PM
Thanks for the update, Alan.




Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 05, 2018, 07:08:46 PM
You don't want me working on your front end with a soldering iron nobby.....!

But the 4MT is a different story. First pass has been made, with lamp irons, steps, coupling hook. Still to add are vacuum pipes, front grab handrails.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4699/26767570688_529787d041_b.jpg)

Once the front end is complete the tender will be next.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Stevie DC on March 06, 2018, 07:19:28 PM
Looking good Alan!  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 06, 2018, 09:35:30 PM
Loco is now pretty much complete, and once okayed, it's ready to head to primer.

In the mean time the next task is the tender

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4791/25789187367_07d9f53506_b.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4802/38849937530_9709c87589_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 10, 2018, 12:08:25 PM
Loco now in primer, with light cleaning up of some minor imperfections this showed up, but pretty tidy otherwise (a credit to the Langley castings whose moulds must be fairly elderly by now):

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4775/40725441611_f461239ed0_b.jpg)

Tender has has details fitted, coal space cut out and new coal space base fitted. Needs a clean over, but heading the right way.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4798/40015274514_230c55b3b9_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on March 10, 2018, 01:11:52 PM
Am I starting to get excited yet? You bet your arbottom dollar :heart2:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 13, 2018, 09:27:52 PM
Loco body is now complete, tender is close (needs a clean up).

Loco and tender connected with correct length drawbar and tested on R2 curve. There is still some additional clearance, so will easily do R1 also.

I expect the front bogie to arrive before the end of the week, so all coming together now.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4778/40084837494_cdd8089ee0_b.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4783/39899739845_c02a23d83c_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 18, 2018, 07:58:42 PM
After a delivery from Nick Tilson at N Brass, I've completed the loco with its correct scale front bogie.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/26012812557_739bc30dd2_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/39991117395_21e405d099_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/26012812837_fa85f0a509_b.jpg)

This is materially complete now - paint is next.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 18, 2018, 11:29:57 PM
An aside project I've been playing with recently is a Dapol valanced A4. I'd often wondered whether it would be possible to fit eccentric rods (omitted by Dapol) to this for added realism.

After coming across a cheap example, I've pottered with it. It turns out that it's relatively easy to add the rods, and it's striking that this omission seems like a rather 'design lazy' approach by Dapol - a little shrewd design could easily have incorporated them. I needed only to restrict the lateral movement of the central wheels, and fabricate an attachment from scrap brass to some spare Dapol eccentric rods using the existing chassis screws on the sides of the chassis. A little slimming of the valve gear washers and removal of a thin amount of the backside of the valances in that area was all that was needed.

I still need to gunmetal all the paintwork to match the valve gear all up, but you get the idea:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/809/27017765408_0ed1d80e39_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/795/26015827357_5d0896a6d1_b.jpg)

Dapol also seem to have simply re-used the later version models tender - understandable, but technically incorrect for the original streamlined style of the back off the tender. I've added this in plasticard. Needs another coat of paint and matt coating to match the rest of the loco, but this is closer to how they should be.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/789/40180253834_4caf2c5e70_b.jpg)

Other details still to add are front stoneguards, cylinder draincock pipes and painting black of the axleboxes (which I think should be black, but no photo seems definitive).

Overall these models look good, but the valve gear is very lazy by Dapol, and really could have been easily done - they'd likely need one or two extra tooled parts only.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on March 19, 2018, 07:39:58 AM
Silver Fox looks wonderful with your clever additions.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: trkilliman on March 19, 2018, 09:01:23 AM
Great to see your modelling skills and improvisation, on many projects.
I find myself increasingly making do and modifying these days, as much is becoming out of my financial reach and more to the point willingness to pay. I'm getting back to some real modelling and it's heartening to see your work Dr Al.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Caz on March 19, 2018, 09:22:41 AM
Superb modelling Alan.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: R Marshall on March 19, 2018, 08:19:41 PM
Fig. 112 in RCTS Part 2A is not definitive, but the tender axleboxes and the boxes on the Cartazzi truck all look to be darker than the frames, which seem the same colour as the valances.

Yours is much improved!

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 20, 2018, 10:39:29 PM
You can make it in any colour you like, so long as it's black, said nobby.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/798/40219282644_e36f6273a4_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 20, 2018, 10:40:47 PM
Fig. 112 in RCTS Part 2A is not definitive, but the tender axleboxes and the boxes on the Cartazzi truck all look to be darker than the frames, which seem the same colour as the valances.

Thanks - that's more useful evidence. I need to look out some of the colour films of them in original livery to see if that helps confirm.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 21, 2018, 08:22:45 PM
Lining started, tender first.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/40903035422_d2919446f1_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: exmouthcraig on March 21, 2018, 08:31:33 PM
Absolutely amazing Alan.

Mick your going to get an amazing loco!!

 :claphappy:  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: R Marshall on March 21, 2018, 09:53:22 PM
Fig. 112 in RCTS Part 2A is not definitive, but the tender axleboxes and the boxes on the Cartazzi truck all look to be darker than the frames, which seem the same colour as the valances.

Thanks - that's more useful evidence. I need to look out some of the colour films of them in original livery to see if that helps confirm.

Cheers,
Alan

Alan,

Colour Rail have a shot of 2509 - I've looked at the preview, but it's not big enough to judge the colours properly. The same shot is in "The Colour of Steam Volume 4 - The LNER Pacifics", but it's just not possible to say what colour the axleboxes are in - they're certainly dark. I doubt you can be more than a smidgeon out if you finish them in black.

Hopefully you've got better colour sources.

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on March 22, 2018, 09:06:17 AM
Fig. 112 in RCTS Part 2A is not definitive, but the tender axleboxes and the boxes on the Cartazzi truck all look to be darker than the frames, which seem the same colour as the valances.

Thanks - that's more useful evidence. I need to look out some of the colour films of them in original livery to see if that helps confirm.

Cheers,
Alan

Apologies for the delay in replying to this - I have been away from home and unable to look up any references.

There is, on page 161 of Haresnape, B., Railway Liveries 1923-1947, 1989, Ian Allan Ltd, Shepperton, ISBN 0 7110 1829 4 a super photograph of No. 2509 Silver Link in what looks ex-works condition.  Certainly she has not received the later modification to the locomotive buffer beam and lacks the side curves to the grey on the nose.

In this photograph, the tender and Cartazzi truck axleboxes appear to be gloss black.  It certainly looks very different to the mid-grey colour of the valances and to the charcoal grey of the wedge-shaped nose.  Interestingly, the framing in front of the Cartazzi truck appears lighter than the valances and the same as the silver-grey of the main livery colour.  Unfortunately, none of the colour pictures that I have found thus far is clear enough to show the axlebox colours.  They kind of vanish in a blurry shadow!

If you are unable to easily find a copy of the book please let me know, Alan, and I'll gladly post it to you so that you can see this photograph for yourself.

With best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 22, 2018, 02:19:49 PM
Many thanks for those who've taken time to look up reference material regarding the early A4 livery.

Apologies for the delay in replying to this - I have been away from home and unable to look up any references.

There is, on page 161 of Haresnape, B., Railway Liveries 1923-1947, 1989, Ian Allan Ltd, Shepperton, ISBN 0 7110 1829 4 a super photograph of No. 2509 Silver Link in what looks ex-works condition.  Certainly she has not received the later modification to the locomotive buffer beam and lacks the side curves to the grey on the nose.

If you are unable to easily find a copy of the book please let me know, Alan, and I'll gladly post it to you so that you can see this photograph for yourself.

Many thanks - if you have the ability to email me a snapshot of this page, it'd be very interesting to see. Does sound like I need to be busting out the fine brushes and attacking the axleboxes with black paint.

Thanks,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on March 22, 2018, 04:28:10 PM
Thank you, Alan.  I'll try, but will probably set the art and science of photography back a century-and-a-half in the process!

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 23, 2018, 07:29:17 PM
Loco lining on the 4MT is progressing, with the hardest parts now done.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/819/40080656795_978b3ae6b1_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 25, 2018, 09:54:09 PM
Lining and decalling now complete - closing in on the end here - next a flat coat, then final finishing and weathering.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/799/40121497755_a70fb35381_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on March 25, 2018, 10:21:41 PM
What a splendid locomotive.  :greatwork:

@newportnobby (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=264) must be jolly chuffed with it!  :wave:

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: exmouthcraig on March 25, 2018, 10:25:20 PM
Words good enough to describe this???

I know of nothing that comes close to describe workmanship turning donkeys year old white metal castings into stuff that rivals new 3D printing techniques.

Truly magnificent Alan

 :claphappy: :claphappy:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 26, 2018, 09:34:44 PM
Loco now complete apart from a couple of very minor adjustments, weathering (it's now on a part weathered chassis, which will be toned down and body weathering done, all matching) and coal.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/870/27164570058_539847e023_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: exmouthcraig on March 26, 2018, 09:51:06 PM
Refer to my previous post

 :beers:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: DCCDave on March 27, 2018, 10:49:42 AM
Loco now complete apart from a couple of very minor adjustments, weathering (it's now on a part weathered chassis, which will be toned down and body weathering done, all matching) and coal.

Cheers,
Alan

Awesome, lovely job Al.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 30, 2018, 12:10:15 AM
The final major work has been completed on the 4MT.

Only needs a chassis clean and run, and coaling now, and a portrait with its two classmates before heading for its new home.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/897/40390049924_1c21280bdc_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/794/27226966468_41e10e36fa_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/783/27226966708_4b599a936d_b.jpg)

I also weathered an 08 and a renumbered new class 40 at the same time, as I try to do multiple models at the same time when the paint is out, otherwise wastage gets large!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/894/40393250574_9a622765bb_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/39294375130_cfc3bbd0cf_b.jpg)

I'm inclined to sell these two, as I'll need funds to afford to populate my upcoming NGS carflats - Oxford cars are reasonably cheap, but not when you're likely to need 50+ of them. Anyone interested in these, give me a shout.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Hailstone on March 30, 2018, 12:27:37 AM
Hugely impressive as usual Alan

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on March 30, 2018, 08:09:07 AM
75013 looks totally convincing.

Cumberland/Westmorland/Lancashire - 1967ish.

British 'N' gauge modelling at its best.

I wish you the joy of it, Mick.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on March 30, 2018, 09:57:11 AM
75013 looks totally convincing.

Cumberland/Westmorland/Lancashire - 1967ish.

British 'N' gauge modelling at its best.

I wish you the joy of it, Mick.

Best wishes.

John


For a brief time in the early 60s 75013 was allocated to shed 1E Bletchley and so, of course, would have made it over to Oxfordshire via the 'Varsity Line', John ;)
http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc (http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 30, 2018, 10:20:33 AM
For a brief time in the early 60s 75013 was allocated to shed 1E Bletchley and so, of course, would have made it over to Oxfordshire via the 'Varsity Line', John ;)
[url]http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc[/url] ([url]http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc[/url])


It was probably a few years, as the reference photos shows it at Oxford in 4/65.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8214305741/in/photolist-dvSsV4 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8214305741/in/photolist-dvSsV4)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on March 30, 2018, 10:51:04 AM
Proof positive. Thanks, Alan :)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on March 30, 2018, 02:02:04 PM
For a brief time in the early 60s 75013 was allocated to shed 1E Bletchley and so, of course, would have made it over to Oxfordshire via the 'Varsity Line', John ;)
[url]http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc[/url] ([url]http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc[/url])


It was probably a few years, as the reference photos shows it at Oxford in 4/65.

[url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8214305741/in/photolist-dvSsV4[/url] ([url]https://www.flickr.com/photos/camperdown/8214305741/in/photolist-dvSsV4[/url])


Cheers,
Alan


That's a very interesting database - I'll enjoy some time looking through it.  Thank you.

I tend to associate the 4MT 4-6-0s in this condition with the North-West, but 75013 wasn't one of these ones according to the listings.  Still, it'll look fabulous, wherever it goes!

All the very best.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: paulprice on March 30, 2018, 04:27:51 PM
The final major work has been completed on the 4MT.

Only needs a chassis clean and run, and coaling now, and a portrait with its two classmates before heading for its new home.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/897/40390049924_1c21280bdc_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/794/27226966468_41e10e36fa_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/783/27226966708_4b599a936d_b.jpg)

I also weathered an 08 and a renumbered new class 40 at the same time, as I try to do multiple models at the same time when the paint is out, otherwise wastage gets large!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/894/40393250574_9a622765bb_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/874/39294375130_cfc3bbd0cf_b.jpg)

I'm inclined to sell these two, as I'll need funds to afford to populate my upcoming NGS carflats - Oxford cars are reasonably cheap, but not when you're likely to need 50+ of them. Anyone interested in these, give me a shout.

Cheers,
Alan


Truly stunning work
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Stevie DC on March 30, 2018, 05:35:53 PM
Lovely models Alan, great work!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: R Marshall on March 30, 2018, 05:39:38 PM
Looks really good weathered.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Caz on March 30, 2018, 06:36:01 PM
Superb stuff Al, NPN should be well pleased.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on March 30, 2018, 09:37:29 PM
The 4MT commission is now complete - reassembled, cleaned, tested, coaled.

A final few pictures with her classmates, before she leaves for a depot change, Oxford way.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/803/41078207792_6081570926_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/893/41078209092_dacd2cd538_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/791/41078208162_1c02ea4b9b_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/892/41078208372_c4eaf9fd60_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/811/41078208542_27680a7473_b.jpg)

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/815/41078208062_ed589777e7_b.jpg)

It's always potentially cringeworthy to compare models you made some time ago, but I think the oldest, 75021, still stands well against the more recently made ones.

Now she's gathering steam, ready for a journey south.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on March 30, 2018, 09:44:56 PM
A stunning trio :heart2:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on April 01, 2018, 12:02:48 PM
I’ve deliberately refrained from ‘oohing and aahing’ over each stage of the development of the locomotive as, after all, this is Alan’s personal thread but now feel it’s the time to break silence and express my gratitude to Alan for what he has created.

Imagine the pride/thrill of owning a hand-made, painted and weathered model locomotive nobody else in the universe has, and which no one else (possibly even the esteemed Alan himself) could ever exactly replicate. I am just a very, very lucky man.

Even if a mass produced ready to run version of this class were to be released it would not and could not ever match the quality of Alan’s work.
   
There are a handful of wonderfully skilled people on this forum who are capable of bringing into life locos and rolling stock not catered for by the main manufacturers. Not only are we lucky to have them on our forum but must surely tip our hats to them for their expertise.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Bealman on April 01, 2018, 12:09:56 PM
Awesome. Triple multiple  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: maridunian on April 01, 2018, 01:29:46 PM
There are a handful of wonderfully skilled people on this forum who are capable of bringing into life locos and rolling stock not catered for by the main manufacturers. Not only are we lucky to have them on our forum but must surely tip our hats to them for their expertise.

As well as congratulating Alan, I'll second that and thank them also for taking the time to share their skills, achievements and the odd disappointment. I learn something every day from the contributors to this site, which is what makes it worthwhile to subscribe.

Mike
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Papyrus on April 01, 2018, 05:43:21 PM
There are a handful of wonderfully skilled people on this forum who are capable of bringing into life locos and rolling stock not catered for by the main manufacturers. Not only are we lucky to have them on our forum but must surely tip our hats to them for their expertise.

As well as congratulating Alan, I'll second that and thank them also for taking the time to share their skills, achievements and the odd disappointment. I learn something every day from the contributors to this site, which is what makes it worthwhile to subscribe.

Mike

Agree with all of that. I could never, ever, match that skill and workmanship. Just amazing.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on April 01, 2018, 07:41:05 PM
I’ve deliberately refrained from ‘oohing and aahing’ over each stage of the development of the locomotive as, after all, this is Alan’s personal thread but now feel it’s the time to break silence and express my gratitude to Alan for what he has created.

Imagine the pride/thrill of owning a hand-made, painted and weathered model locomotive nobody else in the universe has, and which no one else (possibly even the esteemed Alan himself) could ever exactly replicate. I am just a very, very lucky man.

Thank you indeed - I hope that you will be happy with it.

Even if a mass produced ready to run version of this class were to be released it would not and could not ever match the quality of Alan’s work.

It's absolutely guaranteed that now this one has been done for you that Bachmann will announce an RTR one.

There are a handful of wonderfully skilled people on this forum who are capable of bringing into life locos and rolling stock not catered for by the main manufacturers. Not only are we lucky to have them on our forum but must surely tip our hats to them for their expertise.

It's not just that - a lot can be done with RTR - even just weathering and simple renumbering (like the 40 and 08 done at the same time - 08 sold by the way, 40 still available to anyone who's interested), can take a lot away from a standard model, remove the plastic feeling and make it something more unique and all together more life-like.

As I've gone on in modelling, I really feel that there's less and less point in just dropping something out of a box and running it - whilst I understand that it can be difficult, even just fitting the detail bits to a loco will help raise it above everyone elses. Amazing how many magazine pictures of featured layouts have locos that haven't had coupling hooks and vac pipes fitted. Beyond that, trying is the only way to start getting into this type of modelling - grab a scrappy loco from the secondhand stand or ebay and have a go. If it doesn't go right, you've only gained in experience at the expense of very little.

75021 is a case in point - that was one of my first (might actually have been the first) detailed loco I ever did. It was an old pre-built Langley 4MT bought off ebay for a song and stripped, rebuilt, detailed and put on a replacement modern chassis. These models make an attractive starter as they are a useful loco, and a reasonable quality casting, but are still easy to build, even with no superdetailing. There's often old examples about secondhand (both 75021 and 75017 were sourced as such) that are perfect fodder.

So have a go - what's the worst that can happen?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on April 01, 2018, 07:46:37 PM
Thanks again, Alan.
And the next project is likely to be......................??
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Train Waiting on April 01, 2018, 07:50:07 PM
There are a handful of wonderfully skilled people on this forum who are capable of bringing into life locos and rolling stock not catered for by the main manufacturers. Not only are we lucky to have them on our forum but must surely tip our hats to them for their expertise.

As well as congratulating Alan, I'll second that and thank them also for taking the time to share their skills, achievements and the odd disappointment. I learn something every day from the contributors to this site, which is what makes it worthwhile to subscribe.

Mike

Seconded.  Apart from the part that is thirded!  Well said, Mike.

The three 4MT's look tremendous.  I have encountered engines of this class in 1:1 scale and Alan has captured the essence of them without a doubt.

Best wishes.

John

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Dr Al on April 01, 2018, 07:52:54 PM
And the next project is likely to be......................??

There's a green class 20 for renumbering and weathering, and likely to be sold, finishing the silver A4, a couple of rare Beaver LNER J52s that I might do (and likely sell if I do), a rake of Farish sulphate wagons to be repainted to correct livery, as well as interest from another member in southern Z classes, one of which I've done some trial work on.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: kiwi1941 on April 01, 2018, 09:11:30 PM

Quote
a rake of Farish sulphate wagons to be repainted to correct livery
Tell us more. B
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: paulprice on April 02, 2018, 12:01:35 AM
I’ve deliberately refrained from ‘oohing and aahing’ over each stage of the development of the locomotive as, after all, this is Alan’s personal thread but now feel it’s the time to break silence and express my gratitude to Alan for what he has created.

Imagine the pride/thrill of owning a hand-made, painted and weathered model locomotive nobody else in the universe has, and which no one else (possibly even the esteemed Alan himself) could ever exactly replicate. I am just a very, very lucky man.

Even if a mass produced ready to run version of this class were to be released it would not and could not ever match the quality of Alan’s work.
   
There are a handful of wonderfully skilled people on this forum who are capable of bringing into life locos and rolling stock not catered for by the main manufacturers. Not only are we lucky to have them on our forum but must surely tip our hats to them for their expertise.

I totally agree
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Chris in Prague on July 06, 2018, 04:50:09 PM
Many thanks Alan and Nobby for this wonderful thread on the 75xxx locos. Truly superb models. I fully agree with all the admiring comments, above. True masterpieces. At least two of these BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0s, double chimney fitted 75022, and / or single chimney fitted 75025 (both in BR Lined Green and of Exmouth Junction, 83D) are on my 'most wanted' list. I now need to look out for an intermediate Chinese production loco drive Black 5 chassis (not the new tool model), then buy the body kits, detailing parts and two N Brass front bogies.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on July 06, 2018, 09:07:22 PM
Just to give veracity to the running number, Alan also sent me this pic of 75013 at Oxford :)
It could be just about anywhere, though

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/264-060718210456-67241579.jpeg)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: RailGooner on July 06, 2018, 10:52:51 PM
Just to give veracity to the running number, Alan also sent me this pic of 75013 at Oxford :)
It could be just about anywhere, though

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/67/264-060718210456-67241579.jpeg[/url])


No, that's Oxford alright. :D
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 07, 2018, 12:11:03 PM
this would shed light on its allocations


http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc (http://www.brdatabase.info/locoqry.php?action=class&id=746001&type=S&page=alloc)


would have travelled on the old disused varsity line
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: Newportnobby on July 07, 2018, 01:00:53 PM
I already have that excellent site, and am only modelling the 'Oxford area' as I used to travel across from Bletchley on the Varsity Line purely because at Oxford you could see stuff from the WR, SR, LMR and ER. That's why I have so much stock (he said, trying to justify it all) :angel: :D
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 07, 2018, 02:09:05 PM
i noticed part of the route was the bedford to bletchley line, then frieght line to calvert. shame it closed in 1967, hope the line reopens

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on July 24, 2018, 11:54:19 PM
After clearing my workbench of, frankly, garbage, I'm now onto something new, which I'm hoping will be a very quick project.

This is a little gem - @Atso (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) 's 3D print V1 and V3 kits. This is a really nicely designed 3D print, and Steve's experience here really shows. The model is a simple fit to yhe Farish SR N class chassis (minus it's tender), with an additional rear bogie truck.

I've already got a chassis pretty close to done, this just needing pickups fitted to the bogie, weighting to it, and the coupling height at the rear sorted out (it's a bit low). The DCC PCB was not carried over from the N's tender, instead the wires from the motor being directly connected to the chassis sides via the front fixing bolt - simples!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/859/29750514108_4d3dfe12fc_b.jpg)

The bodies need little doing to them - mine need a little bit of layering clean up, though I suspect with a slightly thicker primer layer you would need very little. Steve has these shells set up for LNER config, so for mine which will be BR liveried, the rear works plates on the bunker sides needed removed and a front BR numberplate will need fitted which also necessitates removal of the printed top lamp iron. I'll replace this with scrap brass etch in due course.

I've done all the handrails on the first one - they use a lot of knobs - 35 in total for one body! (or 37 if you drop and loose 2 like me). I've primered it to see where the cleanup of layering is needed, but already it's looking the part:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/834/28732916527_aa0778a275_b.jpg)

Cleanup is the one thing I really don't like about 3D prints - wet and dry paper simply doesn't touch the material at all - it'll likely be scraping with scalpel blades - that's why I'm glad that the boiler in particular has minimal layering visible.

The other one I'm fiddling with is a sad Bulleid pacific that was rescued from non-running state (motor popped from the mount), and now being a sweet runner, I'm sure you can guess what I'm going to do with the Duchess tender chassis and black 5 tender body.....

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/846/42716877665_aef93a6aac_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 4MT
Post by: kiwi1941 on July 25, 2018, 05:07:00 AM

Quote
a rake of Farish sulphate wagons to be repainted to correct livery

Tell us more. B
I hope this wasn't an April Fool's joke! B @Dr Al (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Train Waiting on July 25, 2018, 08:12:03 AM
A fascinating post, Alan.  Thank you very much.

My guess is you will replicate No. 35017 Belgian Marine in May. 1948.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on July 25, 2018, 09:14:45 AM
I hope this wasn't an April Fool's joke! B @Dr Al ([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=263[/url])


No, but I don't have a source for decals yet, so they are down the queue a bit.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: greenlaneman on July 31, 2018, 09:14:54 PM
Re Bulleid - 34004 Yeovil in the locomotive exchange to Scotland or 34006 Bude exchange to the Great Central?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on July 31, 2018, 10:27:15 PM
Re Bulleid - 34004 Yeovil in the locomotive exchange to Scotland or 34006 Bude exchange to the Great Central?

Alas, no - as this is a Merchant Navy; not a Light pacific.

John was correct - if I ever get time for pursuing my failed Revolution pendolino purchase, this will becom No. 35017 Belgian Marine in May. 1948.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: portland-docks on September 30, 2018, 08:18:13 PM
Dr Al!

i have a question, i have a langly standard 4 body kit lieing around somewhere, and would love to have 75029 in br green on my layout.

what other pieces do i need and how much would you charge for a commision?

mine does need to be DCC however!

then the next question is the 2-10-0 WD, the shire i reckon we could handle as that looks straight forward if its on the schools chassis with a b1 tender (got a spare B1 tender!)

cheers

paul
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 30, 2018, 09:03:09 PM
For the BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0 body kit, you need an old Graham Farish Black Five 4-6-0. Best would be a later model with the blackened wheels. The chassis of these can be DCC-fitted. The most expensive option would be a new GF Black Five 4-6-0 but you'd have much better wheels and, I think they have a split chassis if not completely DCC-ready.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: portland-docks on September 30, 2018, 09:06:14 PM
For the BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0 body kit, you need an old Graham Farish Black Five 4-6-0. Best would be a later model with the blackened wheels. The chassis of these can be DCC-fitted. The most expensive option would be a new GF Black Five 4-6-0 but you'd have much better wheels and, I think they have a split chassis if not completely DCC-ready.

well i got a new version black 5 which iv had for a number of years, which is no good to me as a black 5 anymore, so would it be that donor loco and a 4mt tender chassis?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on September 30, 2018, 11:26:41 PM
Dr Al!

i have a question, i have a langly standard 4 body kit lieing around somewhere, and would love to have 75029 in br green on my layout.

what other pieces do i need and how much would you charge for a commision?

You need an old tool Farish Black 5 - the Langley kit is designed for this. The new tool one is no good, as the driving wheel size is too large.

Commissions are not cheap, and currently I am not taking anything on as I have others to finish at present.

Regards,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 01, 2018, 07:58:06 AM
Thanks for this, Dr. Al: "The new tool one is no good, as the driving wheel size is too large." I did not know that. Fortunately, I have bought an old tool Graham Farish Black 5 to provide a DCC-fitted (by Douglas, at Wickness Models) chassis for the Langley BR Standard 4MT kit, which I am about to buy to make an Exmouth Junction allocated example in BR Lined Green.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on October 01, 2018, 09:48:15 AM
Thanks for this, Dr. Al: "The new tool one is no good, as the driving wheel size is too large." I did not know that. Fortunately, I have bought an old tool Graham Farish Black 5 to provide a DCC-fitted (by Douglas, at Wickness Models) chassis for the Langley BR Standard 4MT kit, which I am about to buy to make an Exmouth Junction allocated example in BR Lined Green.

Remember the Standard 5MT is basically a standard black 5 - so putting (essentially) the same wheels on a 4MT would result in something that wouldn't look remotely correct - it'd look like a small boilered 5MT.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Stevie DC on October 01, 2018, 10:02:08 AM
Thanks for this, Dr. Al: "The new tool one is no good, as the driving wheel size is too large." I did not know that. Fortunately, I have bought an old tool Graham Farish Black 5 to provide a DCC-fitted (by Douglas, at Wickness Models) chassis for the Langley BR Standard 4MT kit, which I am about to buy to make an Exmouth Junction allocated example in BR Lined Green.

Remember the Standard 5MT is basically a standard black 5 - so putting (essentially) the same wheels on a 4MT would result in something that wouldn't look remotely correct - it'd look like a small boilered 5MT.

Cheers,
Alan

If you could source them, the 4MT (2-6-4) wheels could be used but you'd loose the traction tires. Alternative N class wheels could be used but they are underscale for the N class to fit under the splashers. Also the 5MT chassis block closely follows the shape of the 5MT boiler very closely and the motor is mounted quite high so there isn't much metal that could be removed to fit a smaller boiler.

I did look at designing a 4MT a little while back but rejected the 5MT for these reasons and have yet to identify a good enough donor chassis from the modern options available to warrant making a start.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on October 01, 2018, 10:26:49 AM
If you could source them, the 4MT (2-6-4) wheels could be used but you'd loose the traction tires. Alternative N class wheels could be used but they are underscale for the N class to fit under the splashers. Also the 5MT chassis block closely follows the shape of the 5MT boiler very closely and the motor is mounted quite high so there isn't much metal that could be removed to fit a smaller boiler.

I did look at designing a 4MT a little while back but rejected the 5MT for these reasons and have yet to identify a good enough donor chassis from the modern options available to warrant making a start.

The 2-6-4T doesn't have tyres I don't think. If N wheels are underscale, then they may end up no better than the overscale 5MT wheels given that in reality the N wheels are smaller than those on the 4MT.

But honestly - this is all too much (effort and expense) for rapidly diminishing returns IMHO, particularly for me already having two (and two more to be built) - the old Black 5 chassis is still pretty good, getting 95% of the way there, with the major inaccuracy being the spacing of the front two drivers. This however, is a little less immediately visible with the valve gear standing in front of it. Also, fitting a metal body over a metal split chassis is also not an enviable task - the chance for shorting out is very high - getting a newer chassis under that would need a load of milling out at very least.

Indeed the old Black 5s I have run better than the new tool models, particularly at crawl speeds. These chassis I've gleaned from old black 5's that now have Duchess chassis under them, and these also run better than the new tool models I have.

Frankly, with the Langley 4MT kit that can make a decent model if detailed (as hopefully mine show), it's not worth designing a replacement IMHO. I'd ultimately be very surprised if one of the manufacturers don't take this on at some point too.

One are I'd consider uprating on my models are the slide bars and crosshead, but it's not a priority enough that I've even looked into possible alternatives (maybe old Farish A3?).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: portland-docks on October 02, 2018, 02:18:57 PM
dammit...and i suck at these things lol, half the stuff i attempt ends up going off to someone where i pay more to get it rectified than it would to have it commissioned lol
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on November 10, 2018, 02:27:45 PM
It's been so busy over the last 6 months that actually getting some me-modelling-time has been surprisingly difficult.

But with the winter drawing in, it's concentrated the mind to clear some of the garbage and get on with some of the many unfinished projects.

The first is the first Atso V1. This was close to being fully assembled when I left it, with only the safety valves, whistle and front steps to add. Those have all now gone on meaning the model is complete bar painting.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4899/45810944591_3270ea707f_k.jpg)

The front steps are N-brass, ground down in width and with their ends shaped to fit the curves of the front bufferbeam. I broke my own rule with these on never using epoxy - other glues just weren't going to hold them on rigidly enough.

Next is 35017, which had been left essentially assembled, but needed renumbering and decalling. This was delayed before as I realised nobody actually did the "Belgian Marine" plates it would need. 6 months later and Fox Transfers expanding nameplate range solved this issue, so the loco now has its identity.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4834/45761813812_fde004b430_k.jpg)

It started out as a Farish MN, with a Duchess tender chassis added and a Black 5 tender body to complete. Decals are also Fox. Now needs varnish sealing and some coal to complete.

One this I am missing from this is the smokebox door circular brass plate that the MNs originally had. I don't know of anywhere that makes this - if anyone does, let me know. In the mean time, the front numberplate has been blacked out, as this is the best that can be done.

Finally is the first of another Atso model - the D49. This project halted when I ran into problems with the tender bodies whose sides bowed, and straightening didn't work, and one side crumbled. Therefore, recently I bit the bullet and got some suitable Farish tender tops instead. Surprisingly, these fit the Dapol B1 tender chassis fairly easily with minimal material removal internally, though the Dapol motor did need the corners of the frame removed to make it fit in. There is a doubling of the tender footplate here, which is unavoidable, but a price worth paying to get a solution.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4903/45810944071_7d552fa7d0_k.jpg)

Loco now needs the tender drawbar fitted, the front bogie completed, pickup from loco considered, and then it hopefully should be ready for the paint shop.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 10, 2018, 03:30:21 PM
Thanks for this update. Very impressive work.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Newportnobby on November 10, 2018, 04:09:39 PM
The V1 looks stunning :drool: Congrats to you and @Atso (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213)
The front coupling/buffers look like close coupling will be good!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: silly moo on November 10, 2018, 05:24:33 PM
It is a pleasure to see such superb modelling in N.

 :NGaugersRule:

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Stevie DC on November 11, 2018, 10:15:19 AM
Wonderful work Alan and thank you for purchasing and building my prints.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on November 11, 2018, 08:01:42 PM
I suspect some assume nothing ever goes wrong on a build - oh how untrue! Here being a perfect example of the need for a recovery.

The MN was varnished with satin, which dried gloss! on closer inspection I realised the paint was not mixed right. It took about 2 days to fully dry, on which I re-coated with satin (mixed this time!) and all looked fine. Peeling the masking back, and disaster - one cabside the varnish peeled off right back to the factory paint.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4847/30892571557_058271c578_h.jpg)

Fortunately it looks like this can be peeled clean off, re-decalled and then re-vanished. The tender is fine as is the other cab side.

The V1 has been painted (black, obviously), and lined out. The body is pretty near finished now - just needs cleaned, a couple of minor black touch ups, and varnish (with care given the above!). The chassis wants the cylinders dealt with, weight added and the cab floor installed. But this one is close now.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4813/45832192651_8f30467f78_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4855/30892571327_c06b260b06_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: thebrighton on November 11, 2018, 08:29:34 PM
I feel your pain, I recently varnished a build with a brand new rattle can of Railmatch matt varnish (new because, as you know, use it once and you may as well bin it) which dried to a nice high gloss!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on November 12, 2018, 09:51:09 AM
I feel your pain, I recently varnished a build with a brand new rattle can of Railmatch matt varnish (new because, as you know, use it once and you may as well bin it) which dried to a nice high gloss!

Varnishing is always the stage that has you slightly holding your breath, as it's the worst possible time for a problem to occur, after all the other work has already gone in.

Fortunately the entire panel has been able to be cleanly peeled off, taking the decals with it admittedly, but those have been replaced now, so back to the point of just needing varnish.

I have to say that this was my fault - the varnish (Phoenix Precision) has performed just fine now it has been fully mixed. It's been a long time since I used it, so just completely forgot that the matting agents inevitably settle out at the base of the tin. I do tend to find the first use of any paint you are much more prone to a gloss finish, even if you mix it properly - to the point where I often open a new tin, mix it up, and close it again, so that the actual first use has much less chance of problems.

Also, I can't say I've used Railmatch for a long time - the paint seemed fine, but their containers were hopeless - the lids would get jammed onto the bottles with even the slightest paint around the rim, and I found that short of actually destroying the lids (therefore rendering the container useless), they would not come off at all. At least with metal tins you can always lever the lid off.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on November 14, 2018, 05:17:22 PM
V1 has now been varnished, so paintwork is complete, just needs the cylinders done and a few minor internal bits doing (including the chassis boiler underside on the RHS).

Has come out pretty well and leads the way for the second one I have with the revised bunker.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4852/45155495524_164feb72d2_h.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4894/44063041670_91e61102bf_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: RichardBattersby on November 14, 2018, 05:49:23 PM
Incredible work!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 14, 2018, 06:45:03 PM
Superb.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Newportnobby on November 14, 2018, 08:11:35 PM
What a beauty :drool:
(Don't worry, Alan. I'll not be after one)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Train Waiting on November 14, 2018, 09:02:04 PM
What a beauty :drool:
(Don't worry, Alan. I'll not be after one)

Seconded!

A splendid-looking locomotive. 
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 27, 2018, 03:28:32 PM
With Shapeways doing a 15% discount today and some of my HOCT prints selling I have just re-invested in V1, V3 and an N2 prints for my Christmas  :D

Could I ask for some specific photos to be posted of the modified chassis for these locos. 

A photo is worth a hundred words of explanation and I think would be welcomed by many. :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on November 27, 2018, 05:30:52 PM
Could I ask for some specific photos to be posted of the modified chassis for these locos. 

A photo is worth a hundred words of explanation and I think would be welcomed by many. :thumbsup:

I did post one pic a few pages back. Nominally it's unmodified other than removal of the DCC gubbins from the N class tender and fitting the rear bogie to the existing Farish drawbar peg; but on running trials I've identified one issue that will necessitate modifications, but this hasn't been done yet, so I don't have a pic!

Then also some cosmetic mods will follow to the cylinders, but only once running is sweet.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Snowwolflair on November 27, 2018, 05:32:31 PM
Could I ask for some specific photos to be posted of the modified chassis for these locos. 

A photo is worth a hundred words of explanation and I think would be welcomed by many. :thumbsup:

I did post one pic a few pages back. Nominally it's unmodified other than removal of the DCC gubbins from the N class tender and fitting the rear bogie to the existing Farish drawbar peg; but on running trials I've identified one issue that will necessitate modifications, but this hasn't been done yet, so I don't have a pic!

Then also some cosmetic mods will follow to the cylinders, but only once running is sweet.

Cheers,
Alan

Thanks, any shots would be great.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on December 03, 2018, 11:36:01 PM
V1 has now completed testing, and a couple of minor issues have been resolved. One is that the ride height is rather high - something I'm not a fan of. I had already modified the print to sit the body down as much as possible, but found on track with the body on a sticking point per wheel rotation. After some puzzling I realised that the flanges of the rear drivers were rubbing on the cab floor underside - removal of some material from its underside has cured it.

Significant progress has been made on the D49, with the tender connections made, proper clearances sorted out around the bogie, and painting of the chassis and wheels. I do think this design would benefit from some blocks behind the cab steps with a hole to set in Dapol wire pickup stubs to ease connection (electrically) of loco and tender. I've bonded some in instead.

The body has been painted and a marathon lining session saw all lining done in one night, apart from one final correction that's needed.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4861/46167714371_49610b84bd_k.jpg)

Also, progress has been made on an Ivatt 4 - this has been kicking around for ages, but after seeing a few other folks attempts it's kicked the project forward with some inspiration. Starting point is the standard 4MT 2-6-0, with running plate removed, and cab reshaped including moving the windows forward to give the square version of the cab that the LMS loco had as compared the standard. The tender has had the bunker shortened (this necessitated cutting down the DCC blanking plug - fortunately half the PCB is functionally unnecessary so can be cut down). The loco cab roof has been cut down in length and reshaped, and an additional roof fitted to the tender as well as reshaped tender side windows.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4803/45255038045_aaf05e4c5b_k.jpg)

I am hoping this can be a part repaint, retaining the boiler lining of the original loco.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: w greatbatch on December 04, 2018, 09:00:51 AM
I do like the Ivatt 4,something I've been considering for a while now, any chance of a pic of the other side please ?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on December 04, 2018, 09:16:29 AM
I do like the Ivatt 4,something I've been considering for a while now, any chance of a pic of the other side please ?

At the moment it's the same as the side shown! I've still got to get down to doing the pipework detail on that side - awaiting a copy of "The Power of Ivatt 2-6-0s" to land to get some proper reference photos!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: w greatbatch on December 04, 2018, 10:00:33 AM
 I'll look forward to see how she turns out. :thankyousign:                                                                                                               Bill
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Newportnobby on December 04, 2018, 11:19:16 AM
Smashing. Just smashing, Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: DCCDave on December 04, 2018, 12:11:45 PM
Al,

Wow! Just wow.

That V1 looks ace, and the D49 is pretty awesome too.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on December 07, 2018, 11:59:24 PM
Well, some steps forward, and some back. After the lining had been completed on the D49, only matt varnish remained - and disaster! Some of the lining lifted on spraying with Testors dullcote  :doh: :doh: :doh:

Clearly the base paint wasn't quite gloss enough for all the decals to properly adhere.

Fortunately it was the top boiler bands and the bases of the splashers only, so a few days of work had to be undertaken to rectify and save. The lifting bands were carefully scraped off, with care only to lift them and not any surrounding (now matt and finished) paint. Also the splasher bases. Then I painted the black areas of the splashers and the boiler bands gloss black. This gave a fresh surface to take replacement decals. These were applied and then one dry, each area that was now still gloss was overcoated in Humbrol matt cote, with a fine brush to seal. This brought it all back into line, and hopefully you can't see the joins!

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4823/44405689160_1f60b5513a_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4815/44405689490_71f75d6335_k.jpg)

This now needs running shakedown, probably some added loco weight, and the cylinder draincocks added. It's short a whistle too!

For @Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) - this overall has gone very well - I'd suggest a few (very minor) changes if you open this up to Shapeways
- add blocks behind the cab steps where Dapol style screw terminals for loco-tender wires could be added
- add blocks to the front splashers that the nameplates can side against. This would also probably strengthen the splashers.
- consider adding front steps - either as part of the print (folk could hack them off if clashing) or as a separate part that folks could fit.

Whilst doing the lining repairs, I completed lining another older 4MT that I want to get cleared - it's been knocking about for a while, and I need to clear the backlog and regain some space! This will be for sale reasonably cheaply when done if anyone is interested.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4834/44405689710_02c9b1df93_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: thebrighton on December 09, 2018, 07:49:38 PM
I've had issues in the past with transfers lifting when sprayed with varnish. Now I always brush a quick coat of Klear over them before spraying. Never had an issue since :)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on December 09, 2018, 08:08:37 PM
I've had issues in the past with transfers lifting when sprayed with varnish. Now I always brush a quick coat of Klear over them before spraying. Never had an issue since :)

I suspect that the areas where there were problems were not as gloss in the first place - I have in the past airbrushed gloss afterwards to seal before then dullcoting, but I've quite often got away with skipping this step - not this time though!

We live and learn - fortunately it was all fixable without having to fully repaint (the worst possible outcome!). I guess I'll consider going back to gloss coating - though having always airbrushed finishes, I'm reluctant to brush paint gloss.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on December 26, 2018, 10:45:39 PM
Holiday season is increasingly one for trying to wrap up unfinished projects in order to clear the decks for the coming year. This year is no exception, and one area of projects are a plethora of wagons that need finished. The first few I've now done and passed into the fleet.

First are 3 Midland brake vans - standard Peco kits I've had lying around for ages - either build them or sell them! So they have been completed:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7921/44660808470_b2f7392119_k.jpg)

Next is an ex-LNER double bolster wagon - again from a Peco kit, but with chassis modified to be less 'modern' and more realistic. Not perfect, but something different.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4829/45754251504_39ff873299_k.jpg)

Final is a N Gauge Society LMS trestol wagon. This was obtained built, secondhand, but unfinished - I've added coupling hooks, replaced the wheels and painted it. Decals were a real problem - finding out their positions and text was not easy without the kit instructions, so a massive shout must go out to the member here who sent me a copy of the instructions. This gave numbers (reproduced correctly) and the correct designation of Trestrol MB. No shout to the NGS - an email to the helpline was ignored - very nice.....what am I paying for in this society exactly....?

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4807/45754251404_610a0d1b68_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: exmouthcraig on December 26, 2018, 10:54:25 PM
 :claphappy: another rake of fantastic looking kit there Al, im desperatly trying to clear the bench of 37 built wagons in varying degrees of completion plus my 10 new peco kits that arrived under my tree yesterday morning.

Oh how I long for a holiday to sit and finish this stuff!!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Dr Al on December 28, 2018, 10:22:30 PM
Some more progress made on a few things tonight.

First was fitting a drawbar to the Ivatt 4MT - this is applicable to shortening the standard Farish 4MT 2-6-0 drawbar down from it's excessively long as supplied nature. Some PCB is used, and this is the closest the loco/tender can come and still negociate 9" curves. It looks worse on this loco as the cab footplate has been cut back as correct for the Ivatt version.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4908/45781312994_3fcd3dd382_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4889/45781312874_6b12e90df2_k.jpg)

It looks crude, but is functionally the same as the original, albeit shorter. I've left it wider than the original for added strength.

Also, I've finally got round to fitting the whistle and cab glazing to the D49 - so this is off to find a storage box and endure some test running.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4880/32632017378_cde235f6a8_k.jpg)

Finally, something for the D49 to tow, is rather an oddity - this was won on ebay a little time back, probably overpaid for it given the condition. It's a Gresley 52' coach. The body is of completely unknown origin, as were the bogies, though it was on elderly Minitrix wheels, and one coupling box had clearly been damaged and glued hard onto the underframe making it functionally useless. I've removed the original bogies and replaced them with spares that came with the NGS Gresley full brake (no idea why it had extra bogies, but very useful), and Romford wheels, cutting down the ride height in the process to match a Minitrix Gresley. The buffers are still a fraction high but nothing major.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4889/32632017638_939451c1f8_k.jpg)

More needs done, but some input is needed before it can progress - perhaps @Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) will know. I need a source of suitable coach buffers (those originals are awful) - those being the round flat topped Gresley style, which for once N-Brass locos don't have, and also corridor connections - does anyone know of any suitable substitutes?

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Stevie DC on December 28, 2018, 11:27:16 PM
Lovely work Alan. I like what you've done with the D49, I might have to try out the Farish tender body with the Dapol frames for, the long stalled Middleton project.

Likewise, I really like the 'Flying Pig'. While out of both my chosen period and geographical location, it is a locomotive that appeals to me for some reason. Nice work!

Regarding the coach. Could that be an old Ian Kirk kit? It doesn't look too shabby as it is, although the middle horizontal beading doesn't look quite in the right place.

Buffers: I believe than Alan Cox did some 3D printed buffers for his kits; although I'd prefer some turned brass ones myself. From memory, the Nbrass CCT buffers with the top of the head filled flat might serve but I don't think it is in the retracted position.

Alan also acquired a stock of Dapol Gresley 8'6 bogies or you could try the excellent etched kit from the 2mm Association of the same type.

The 52' stock was built for the GE section to fit into Liverpool Street and, at least in LNER times, their appearance on other parts of the system would be rare. I do suspect that they, like other stock, might have become more widely used in BR days though. If you'd like something a bit different, you could replace the trust rods with the earlier turn buckle type and fit oval buffers to represent a 1920s/early 1930s build (diagram permitting).
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: martyn on December 29, 2018, 08:58:22 AM
Hello Alan;

I've no idea where this coach originates from, but it looks good for the dia. 146 BTK. These did have truss rod framing when first built, 'clipped' buffers, and 8'6" bogies with footboards similar to the Dapol ones. BH Enterprises do provide etched sides for 52' stock so is from them? Original bogies from MTK (sadly now lost)?

I previously bought the clipped buffers as brass turnings from Etched Pixels/Ultima, but as Steve has said, I think Alan now does 3D prints for them. EP reference UM113/113A/113B in his catalogue. I don't know which diameter these are on the real thing. UM356 appears to be the 52' tie rod underframe. As the build period spread was 1930-1936, I would suggest that they changed to angle underframes during the build time, but I haven't a photo.

HTH

martyn

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Stevie DC on December 29, 2018, 09:22:31 AM
I previously bought the clipped buffers as brass turnings from Etched Pixels/Ultima, but as Steve has said, I think Alan now does 3D prints for them. EP reference UM113/113A/113B in his catalogue. I don't know which diameter these are on the real thing. UM356 appears to be the 52' tie rod underframe. As the build period spread was 1930-1936, I would suggest that they changed to angle underframes during the build time, but I haven't a photo.

Hi Martyn,

As a general rule, angle iron underframes came in around the same time as the clipped buffers but during the change over period there were exceptions and it is best to check photos if you're looking to make an accurate model of a particular coach.

Were the MTK bogies the injection moulded ones? If so, BHE does these but in white metal. However, I found that there wasn't enough flex to fit the wheels without breaking the castings! For use as overlays though...
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: thebrighton on December 29, 2018, 11:45:11 AM
Hi Alan,
That coach looks remarkably similar to an Ian Kirk 52' full brake I picked up off Ebay a while back. It, too, had basic Gresley bogies moulded in plastic with Minitrix wheels. Underframe is identical and unless you've added them since had identical folded paper gangway connections.
The D49 looks superb :)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: martyn on December 29, 2018, 01:14:13 PM
Hi Steve;

Reply #385; Whilst I agree with what you say about the clipped buffers and angle underframes, 'Historic Carriage Drawings-LNER' by Campling has photos of a dia.140 FK and dia.146 BTK both fitted, as far as I can tell, with clipped buffers and turnbuckle underframes, however a photo of the dia. 216 TOK taken in 1936 has clipped buffers and angle underframes. As ever-use photos! Fitting of footboards to the bogies seems random; the BTK has them, as you would expect, but the FK does as well; but not the TOK. Harris 'LNER Carriages' has a photo of a TK, seemingly brand new at York, also seemingly fitted with clipped buffers and turnbuckle frames; interestingly, the footboards are only at the outer ends of the bogies. Just to muddy waters, Harris has a diagram of a Dia. 9 CK seemingly with turnbuckle underframe and oval buffers...……..

Yes, MTK bogies were one piece 'oily' plastic mouldings, and I agree that fitting wheelsets could be difficult, as the end cross frames were not very well moulded to the longitudinal frames, and could part when fitting wheelsets. The advantage was that they had no footsteps/running boards and so didn't need carving off for (most) main line stock. Another major disadvantage was they had Triang type hook and bar tension lock couplings which weren't very reliable; Colin at Ultima did an adaptor set to convert to Rapido. I have a number underneath my Gresley UltimaTe conversions made over 20 years ago, and also underneath some newer Ultima/Farish Thompsons.

Dr Al; many congratulations on some more truly excellent modelling!

Martyn
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - V1, V3
Post by: Stevie DC on December 30, 2018, 11:37:31 AM
Reply #385; Whilst I agree with what you say about the clipped buffers and angle underframes, 'Historic Carriage Drawings-LNER' by Campling has photos of a dia.140 FK and dia.146 BTK both fitted, as far as I can tell, with clipped buffers and turnbuckle underframes, however a photo of the dia. 216 TOK taken in 1936 has clipped buffers and angle underframes. As ever-use photos! Fitting of footboards to the bogies seems random; the BTK has them, as you would expect, but the FK does as well; but not the TOK. Harris 'LNER Carriages' has a photo of a TK, seemingly brand new at York, also seemingly fitted with clipped buffers and turnbuckle frames; interestingly, the footboards are only at the outer ends of the bogies. Just to muddy waters, Harris has a diagram of a Dia. 9 CK seemingly with turnbuckle underframe and oval buffers...……..

Sorry, that is what I was getting at. Thank you for putting it much clearer than I did.  :)

Dr Al; many congratulations on some more truly excellent modelling!

Seconded! Alan does make really good models!  8) 8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 08, 2019, 04:10:50 PM
Another unearthed project has made some progress.

This is a BH Enterprises LMS Patriot. I obtained secondhand - not usually something I'd bother with, but someone had fitted separate handrails to the loco, as well as an N-Brass bogie to a decent standard, so this was enough to gamble on. The loco started as below:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4853/32789619588_49aae49abf_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7874/45939543024_7456463142_h.jpg)

There is a lot wrong though:

- front end looks completely wrong and very 'heavy'
- thick overscale buffers
- underscale tender
- affixment of the deflectors all wrong, slanted, but deflectors themselves flat rather than with angled tops
- tender sits too low
- front end sits high
- footplates are anything but straight.

I ended up pulling the whole thing apart - fortunately a superglued job, so easily returned to kit form. I've corrected most of the above now - the most important being the front end of the loco (it's the whole character of the thing). I found the boiler mounted too far foward and with a thick layer of glue, it also sat too high at the front end. Also, the front bufferbeam was way too deep so has been filed down to scale. N Brass fittings have replaced to mediocre BHE ones.

The tender has been replaced. I will keep the other one, but the work needed is high - in particular the footplate on one side is missing and this is not easy to reinstate. An identical one has been rebuilt (also a secondhand BHE from @N Gauge Bob (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=299) ) and detailed with handrails.

Is now in need of the cab detail and handrails, and a good clean up. Tender needs rails fitted and modification to the chassis to raise the ride height.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4820/32789623898_535a896bb9_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4885/46664339041_c9543589e3_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7825/32789623458_5c7ec95e5e_k.jpg)

Whilst I may seem a bit ho-hum on the BHE model, it's actually pretty decent, some nice detail on the deflectors and suchlike, and this should come out well. @Atso (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) - yes I do also still have one of your 3D print bodies to do too - the major hindrance of completing it being finding a satisfactory drive unit - I'm not keen to use a UM one. I'll see how this ends up and see if older Farish Duchess loco drive might be the way.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 08, 2019, 10:02:25 PM
Managed to do more on the tender and cab - tender now mostly complete - rails added, and chassis added including jacking it up about 1mm to get the ride height better. Not sure why these BHE tenders ride so low.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4854/45753557345_ffe17ebd6d_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7870/45753556965_5e1ee60cd3_h.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7893/46668709621_b700deabd3_h.jpg)

Next will be lamp irons at front end, coupling hooks, vac pipes, modifying the front bogie to remove the stoneguards and fitting them to body instead, and a couple of minor details to the tender.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Newportnobby on January 09, 2019, 09:22:24 AM
It's looking like another stunner is soon to emerge but, and I hate to ask this, is there meant to be a small gap at the right of the centre splasher?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 09, 2019, 09:29:19 AM
It's looking like another stunner is soon to emerge but, and I hate to ask this, is there meant to be a small gap at the right of the centre splasher?

Yes, well spotted. This is a fix that needs done - reseating the boiler to correct position left a gap there. I'll either solder-fill it, or overlay some thin brass.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 12, 2019, 02:50:15 PM
Continuing clicking off projects that were unfinished, here is a fast one, and one that's a perfect example of a starter project for those wanting to try more than just RTR out the box.

It's the simplest renumbering/identity change there is. The back story is that this was meant to have been renumbered 2 years ago to "Spitfire". Order placed with Modelmaster, and plates never ever received. Appauling service.

By contrast I finally gave up, and ordered plates from Fox Transfers, whose range is rapidly expanding. What a wonderful contrast - excellent product, excellent efficient polite service. So glad the NGS had dumped Modelmaster.

The exercise was to rename a Farish new tool Castle. This is a perfect starter task, as you need not remove anything from the loco - no removal of old numbers of names. It's simply a case of cutting the new numberplates and names from the etch and gluing them on top of the existing numbers - these give the guide of placement too. A finishing touch is to put decals over the front numberplate to renumber it - Fox also do these, but a starter could simply overpaint the original numbers if decalling is a challenge.

Fox didn't have Spitfire, so instead, this is now 7007 "Great Western". This also comes with a GW crest decal for the middle splasher.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7802/39748838163_a6df24b498_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4869/39748837853_739bf2883b_k.jpg)

A nice starter 1 hour project - and you'll be left with a unique model.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: exmouthcraig on January 12, 2019, 03:51:39 PM
Nice Job sir!!

I cannot rate Fox highly enough. Local company to me but usually in my letterbox within 48hrs. Stock levels are immense and the n gauge range has grown rapidly in the last few years.

Currently renumbering our Bulleids, presumably the farish numbers are the wrong size, Fox by comparison look fantastic

Usual brilliant work Alan  :claphappy:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 12, 2019, 04:49:25 PM
I cannot rate Fox highly enough. Local company to me but usually in my letterbox within 48hrs. Stock levels are immense and the n gauge range has grown rapidly in the last few years.

Agreed. Even when issues occur, they sort them out swiftly and efficiently, and politely (I recall they once sent in incorrect sheet and a 14mL tin of paint rather than the 50ml I'd ordered - it was a case of no problem - keep the things we sent and we'll send out the correct ones in addition - that's customer service).

Currently renumbering our Bulleids, presumably the farish numbers are the wrong size, Fox by comparison look fantastic

Older Farish yes - Bachmann ones should be correct though. It's why I always remove all the numbers, not just individual digits, as factory and decals never ever match making the renumber stand out.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 13, 2019, 06:49:46 PM
Tender now completed on the Patriot. Final details fitted - with the high fire iron rails and the rear vacuum pipe. This will be off for primer soon.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4824/45813925095_df6e5b4d85_b.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7802/45813924835_e8aadb8102_k.jpg)

At the front end new stoneguards fitted and the equivalents have been removed from the bogie. I've also moved the bogie back by ~1/2mm by adjusting the drawbar holes - it now sits in correct location and a bonus it now clears the front steps better.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7924/31788077857_e66f20197b_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 20, 2019, 11:18:45 PM
More progress on a variety of things.

First is Patriot. Tender has been cleaned and primer coated. A few minor clean ups, but this is done and will now await the loco to catch up to the same level.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4852/39854170763_ce49655ac5_k.jpg)

While on tenders, the Ivatt 4 conversion has had a lot of progress on its tender. When you start studying this loco, you realise that there is a lot that is different between its tender and that of the later Standard 4. Much of this has now been tackled including the footplate around the tender base, the cab floor, handrails and cab roof, and the rear handrails. I ripped out the DCC gubbins which to retain would have needed a clumsy high coal load to cover. A new bunker base in plasticard replaced this.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4847/45904431865_0a4ee69a6f_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4903/32943603108_d47efe663b_k.jpg)

Next is a backdate of a Dapol class 86 - this was promised by Dapol to come eventually, but yeah....like that's going to happen. This cheap Freightliner model has had all the modern parts removed including the roof cylinders, front end jumper cables, high intensity light, headcode marker lights. The big task was to remove the flexicoil suspension without too much collateral damage to the bogies - this was a lot of careful cutting and scraping with sharp blades. This loco will be painted in the original as-new livery of electric blue. The necessary original triangular suspension parts on the bogies will be harvested from old Lima class 86 bogie frames.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7857/46766900412_1174025626_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7846/46766900052_25c78b2c18_z.jpg)

This won't be a perfect representation, but better than any other option, including Dapol's forthcoming electric blue version, as that will be a modern loco representation.

Finally is a Chivers CCT - nothing fancy here, just a standard build of a nicely moulded plastic kit.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7878/45904431465_2664d27dba_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: 5944 on January 24, 2019, 02:17:27 PM
Looking good Al. Beware with the 86 though - they were never electric blue when new. Certainly not the bright blue of the earlier AC electrics.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Snowwolflair on January 24, 2019, 03:53:06 PM
More progress on a variety of things.

First is Patriot. Tender has been cleaned and primer coated. A few minor clean ups, but this is done and will now await the loco to catch up to the same level.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4852/39854170763_ce49655ac5_k.jpg)

While on tenders, the Ivatt 4 conversion has had a lot of progress on its tender. When you start studying this loco, you realise that there is a lot that is different between its tender and that of the later Standard 4. Much of this has now been tackled including the footplate around the tender base, the cab floor, handrails and cab roof, and the rear handrails. I ripped out the DCC gubbins which to retain would have needed a clumsy high coal load to cover. A new bunker base in plasticard replaced this.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4847/45904431865_0a4ee69a6f_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4903/32943603108_d47efe663b_k.jpg)

Next is a backdate of a Dapol class 86 - this was promised by Dapol to come eventually, but yeah....like that's going to happen. This cheap Freightliner model has had all the modern parts removed including the roof cylinders, front end jumper cables, high intensity light, headcode marker lights. The big task was to remove the flexicoil suspension without too much collateral damage to the bogies - this was a lot of careful cutting and scraping with sharp blades. This loco will be painted in the original as-new livery of electric blue. The necessary original triangular suspension parts on the bogies will be harvested from old Lima class 86 bogie frames.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7857/46766900412_1174025626_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7846/46766900052_25c78b2c18_z.jpg)

This won't be a perfect representation, but better than any other option, including Dapol's forthcoming electric blue version, as that will be a modern loco representation.

Finally is a Chivers CCT - nothing fancy here, just a standard build of a nicely moulded plastic kit.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7878/45904431465_2664d27dba_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Alan very nice, I always appreciate your builds. 

On the cutting of the springs try using a 2mm dentists ball shaped cutter burr as a knife.   Scalpels or similar knife cuts leave surface cuts that can propagate to splits in polythene type plastics with time, the burr is an abrasive cut and does not give this problem.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 24, 2019, 07:34:18 PM
Looking good Al. Beware with the 86 though - they were never electric blue when new. Certainly not the bright blue of the earlier AC electrics.

I'm not actually clear on what's right for this. Looking at prototype photos some look like they did all get painted the same in the very early days (pre-yellow panels), e.g.:

https://flic.kr/p/VUUiEn

But more research needed. Fortunately the blue will be the last colour going down, so a bit of time to get it right.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 24, 2019, 07:37:14 PM
Alan very nice, I always appreciate your builds. 

On the cutting of the springs try using a 2mm dentists ball shaped cutter burr as a knife.   Scalpels or similar knife cuts leave surface cuts that can propagate to splits in polythene type plastics with time, the burr is an abrasive cut and does not give this problem.

Thanks.

In terms of the flexicoils, that's interesting and I'll have a play on some scrap, but maybe you missed that they'd already gone one mine! I carved it all off, slow and steady with the scalpel. It won't be a perfect representation as some of the smaller parts of the more modern additions can't be easily removed, but getting the triangular central metal bar on is the key characteristic piece that now needs added.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 26, 2019, 12:08:43 AM
Class 86 now been given a first dusting of primer to start identifying the areas that need cleaning up - quite a lot! Also fitted the correct round Oleo buffers.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7852/33001120048_d78130261a_z.jpg)

The bogies, now minus the main central 'flexicoil' suspension:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4838/46876449511_5202156e7b_k.jpg)

A big step forward made on the Ivatt 4 with a start made on one of the main missing parts - the pipework run on the left side of the loco. Also the LMS top feed was put on (cut from a scrap Minitrix Ivatt 2 body). The pipe run was worked from scrap etch offcuts and wire. The ends of the wire runs need sorted out now, but the part I thought would be harder is now done.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7854/46876450061_83fa13611c_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7804/33001120588_64e9153440_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: w greatbatch on January 27, 2019, 10:34:51 PM
Will look the buisness when the wire is 'plumbed in',what did you use,fuse wire ?                                                        Bill
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 28, 2019, 12:22:18 AM
Final detail fitted to the Ivatt 4 tender - much microstrip. This will next be heading for primer.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7892/31958175197_5c95d9422b_h.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on January 29, 2019, 10:50:01 PM
After a step away for a little from the Patriot, I've made more progress on it - first fixing the splashers gaps, and also overlaying brass on the front splashers, adding a tab to ease attachment of nameplates in future. The reverser was added in scrap brass too while in that area.

The front end has also been completed with lamp irons, coupling hook and vac pipe. Frame extensions were also added under the footplate above the front bogie to cut out the gap and add 'weight' to the front look of the model.

The first primer coat has been done - this identifies a fair amount of clean up required in various areas - it's pretty rough, but it's actually better than I expected given the  extremely rough starting point. Next will be a thorough clean up session to try and remove the remaining bemishes, but the back of this build is broken, and soon she'll be seeing some green (yes.....sorry @paulprice (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=4342) it will be green....).

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7897/46196638534_4a7ecea42f_z.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4882/33046140418_ebabb29e96_k.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4913/46921560961_389a124b33_h.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Newportnobby on January 30, 2019, 09:55:36 AM
As Stevie Wonder sang "Isn't she lovely" and I, for one, think she'll look great in green :heart2:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: paulprice on January 30, 2019, 11:17:46 AM
GREEN, GREEN how terrible, if you carry on like this I will stop talking to you  :P
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on February 01, 2019, 10:11:38 PM
Well it's now green. And black.

I have to say I'm more pleased with the result than I thought I'd be - it's a much smoother model than I was expecting given how rough it actually started. Also, the BHE kit is sorely underrated - this really does have the character of the Patriot I feel.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7802/32011497697_b8f29fe4ac_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7880/46227864514_b7f2918b42_k.jpg)

Next for this are minor touch ups where masking for the black was impossible, followed by all over gloss and then to the decal shop.

Also back from paint is the Ivatt 4 tender top - now ready for decals. This is well ahead of the loco as there's still some hard bits to sort out on it.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7888/46227864584_b8ea32f7ed_b.jpg)

Last is a new project. This is one I've wanted to do for a while - a UM B12 to get detailed. This isn't the loco I intended doing it on though - I have another B12 but this came in recently and is a really nice runner and with the later correct tender. So it's going for the upgrade treatment instead.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4844/46227874754_c1e4e8f802_k.jpg)

While a good runner, this has the older UM motor, so first job was a motor change to a Mashima 1015 to match the rest of my UMs.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4851/46900398312_6d40183235_k.jpg)

Next was the hour of stripping off the moulded detail that will be replaced.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4829/32011497837_cb3015b614_k.jpg)

Yes, this now looks a mess! Holes already drilled for new handrails, some further tidying up to do, but already well on the way. Also worth noting - UM models are not single piece castings! The buffers and smokebox door are separate! I think the boiler is too IIRC, but it won't be coming off. Next will be more clean up and a handrailing session.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on February 03, 2019, 11:58:58 PM
A marathon lining session has pushed the Patriot on - just the footplate orange line to now complete.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7837/33100266598_14f40136a2_k.jpg)

Also decalled was the Ivatt 4MT tender:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4868/46251414044_1e12575f50_b.jpg)

Finally the B12 has had most of the handrails completed, and new buffers attached. Some more detail to complete but already looking better.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7927/33100266838_53a990c847_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on February 05, 2019, 11:00:49 PM
Project B12 has gained the front bufferbeam details and some on the tender. The stoneguards are a prominant part of the front end of these locos, so it was important to add them, but this does mean the front coupling has to go.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7868/46999308231_d6a7135d9a_h.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7812/46999308071_651c8e5897_b.jpg)

Patriot is decalled complete and heading for the final gloss coat to seal the decals fully.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Train Waiting on February 06, 2019, 08:44:16 AM
Many thanks, Alan, for these superb photographs.  The 'Baby Scot' is fabulous and the Union Mills 'B12' will look terrific after your 'treatment'.

Great stuff, indeed.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Stevie DC on February 06, 2019, 10:24:37 AM
Lovely work Alan. I particularly like what you are doing with the B12!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: R Marshall on February 06, 2019, 08:07:13 PM
Alan,

I agree - the B12 looks superb.

There's something about the clean lines of inside cylindered locomotives.

Unless you have to work on the bits between the frames, however!

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on February 06, 2019, 10:15:59 PM
Patriot now virtually complete - cylinders need final sorting out and coal added. That footplate line was an absolute pig to get right!

It's not perfect paint wise, but it's a large improvement on the starting point:

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4853/32789619588_49aae49abf_k.jpg)

Refurbished:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7822/46096312885_fa2d0f89f9_h.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4894/46096312805_2e2e3abf22_z.jpg)

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4904/46096312985_1f7dae90ae_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7854/46096312665_a915a4aca2_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: njnall on February 06, 2019, 10:36:34 PM
Your Patriot locomotive is a stunning piece of workmanship, following a tradition of your many previous locomotives :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Newportnobby on February 07, 2019, 10:13:14 AM
I've been waiting for the 'matted' version, and what a beauty :heart2:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: w greatbatch on February 07, 2019, 10:32:24 AM
Very handsome loco
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Stevie DC on February 07, 2019, 04:24:18 PM
What a lovely job you've done on the Patriot Alan. They always seem a little strange in green (rather than maroon) to me but that doesn't take away from the first class job you've done!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on February 07, 2019, 11:22:13 PM
And finally, Patriot complete with cylinder detail added and cylinders repainted and lined. There won't be clearance for the draincock pipes on this one, only the base detail, but I think they look better now.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4896/47021326011_6c6b0de1db_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: ToothFairy on February 08, 2019, 05:16:33 AM
Short way of expressing my admiration: Cor!
Slightly longer: A stunning masterpiece.

- Michael
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Train Waiting on February 08, 2019, 08:26:48 AM
Congratulations, Alan.  The 'Baby Scot' is a masterpiece.

My preference is normally for pre-1948 liveries, but I think that the post-1956 'British Racing Green' looks absolutely terrific on this engine.

Thank you so much for all the photographs of your restoration and rebuild of 45511.

I very much look forward to seeing progress with the 'B12/3'.

All best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Caz on February 08, 2019, 08:06:23 PM
Not my area but lovely work Alan.   :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: AJP on February 10, 2019, 10:56:54 AM
Hi Dr Al, First off have to echo what others have said, just stunning, hard to believe at times it is N and not OO - the most impressive for me is the pipework on the Ivatt class4.
I also have a question regarding the Trestol wagon, I have one which I am going to build soon but would Like to know whether you bought or made the "Trestol" lettering, if you bought it where from?, and if you made it (using transfer paper I assume) which font did you use? (if you remember) 

Regards Tony
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: paulprice on February 10, 2019, 04:49:19 PM
Truly brilliant work, and something we all wish we could aspire to
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - Patriot
Post by: Dr Al on February 10, 2019, 07:12:20 PM
I also have a question regarding the Trestol wagon, I have one which I am going to build soon but would Like to know whether you bought or made the "Trestol" lettering, if you bought it where from?, and if you made it (using transfer paper I assume) which font did you use? (if you remember) 

Neither. I cobbled them together from various offcuts of Fox Transfers wagon sheets - they had the word Trestrol, MB was from individual cut out letters as was the numbering.

I tend to use these sheets to get the most out of them, as buying individual sheets correct for each wagon is either not possible (in this case) or simply prohibitively expensive.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 11, 2019, 10:26:21 PM
Not the Patriot is complete, more progress has been made on the B12.

The tender has been mostly completed, with vac pipes, coupling hook and front handrails fitted. All handrails have been straightened up and adjusted. Also repaired was a divet thoughtfully taken out of the tender side by a previous owner - this was filled with low melt solder and filed back. Tender now just needs checking as to whether it had a brake wheel in the cab, and then it should be pretty much done.

Loco has had front end detail completed with lamp irons, smokebox door dart and BR numberplate fitted. All the handrails also been straightened out. Only now need to figure how to do the vertical cab handrails as there's not much space there.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7804/47054634761_74b5d559d6_z.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7810/47002683652_76ea1f883e_h.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7907/47054634551_d39045b57c_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7874/47002683372_e3d65be9d8_h.jpg)

This is getting close - a few more cleanups, a few wiggly small pipes to add once exact prototype is chose (as they seemed to be a little varied) and decide wherther to replace the Westinghouse pump, or just detail it. This will definitely be lined out in full BR black - while some B12s were unlined black (and thus the UM model is correct), I think this will pop much more with full mixed traffic lining.

We'll need to see how the stoneguard survive - they will be vulnerable, particularly to derailments.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 13, 2019, 11:52:38 PM
After removing the Westinghouse brake gear (will be replace with separates) and fitting the cab handrails, the first covering of primer applied. I did not strip the body further than above - the UM primer is decent and holds well so retaining the base finish everywhere apart from where changes made is desirable.

Westinghouse parts still need fitting, but I wanted to see how clean the removal looked, hence primer - seems ok. A variety of small dings, bumps and other bits that will need cleaned up, but not bad for first pass.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7897/33211850638_0f8c0e172b_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7879/33211850548_40eb365ca0_h.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: thebrighton on February 14, 2019, 10:02:43 AM
Hi Alan,
Didn't realise UM had made the smaller GER tender replacing the group standard this originally came with. My B12 has a BHE tender with a much modified continental chassis which has never been up to much.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 14, 2019, 10:07:05 AM
Hi Alan,
Didn't realise UM had made the smaller GER tender replacing the group standard this originally came with. My B12 has a BHE tender with a much modified continental chassis which has never been up to much.

It came along with the release of the D16s - UM have started to diversify their tenders and drive chassis wheelbase.

But it is still over-scale - shorter than the LNER group standard tenders, but longer than scale. I'm happy to put up with that compromise for keeping the drive mechanism that works well.

cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: martyn on February 14, 2019, 12:56:24 PM
I think the tender drive unit (not the tender top) may be from one of the GCR or MR/LMS locos he has released; its certainly closer to scale than the Group Standard one it originally came out with, but as Dr. Alan says, it is still well over length and probably height.  I've replaced my original tender drive with the newer one, and it does look better.

martyn
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: thebrighton on February 14, 2019, 12:59:14 PM
Despite being a bit over scale I may have to see if Colin has the odd spare or 2 :) Cheers guys.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Stevie DC on February 14, 2019, 06:59:23 PM
Looking great Alan!

I briefly toyed with the idea of cutting two 1mm sections out of the UM GER tender body and then soldering it back together to bring it closer to scale length. Something similar could be done with the tender chassis as well. Needless to say, I bottled out!  :-[
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 16, 2019, 09:48:46 AM
I briefly toyed with the idea of cutting two 1mm sections out of the UM GER tender body and then soldering it back together to bring it closer to scale length. Something similar could be done with the tender chassis as well. Needless to say, I bottled out!  :-[

I don't think it's ultimately possible to use the UM drive in a shorter tender - if it were, Colin would have done it, as this length wheelbase drive is unique to this tender. It's not worth trying anything IMHO - I'm happy to have the compromise - pragmatically it's not always possible to have things scale - the key is having the character of the loco I think - and this tender is pretty accurate in terms of detail - it does look a lot better than the generic (and completely wrong for this loco) later group standard tender.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Stevie DC on February 16, 2019, 04:30:24 PM
I don't think it's ultimately possible to use the UM drive in a shorter tender - if it were, Colin would have done it, as this length wheelbase drive is unique to this tender. It's not worth trying anything IMHO - I'm happy to have the compromise - pragmatically it's not always possible to have things scale - the key is having the character of the loco I think - and this tender is pretty accurate in terms of detail - it does look a lot better than the generic (and completely wrong for this loco) later group standard tender.

I think it could be possible if you fit a smaller motor (810 flat can) but it would be an awful lot of faff for a questionable/negligible gain. I agree that the UM GER tender works well with the locos and is considerably better than the GST that the B12/3 originally came with.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: portland-docks on February 20, 2019, 06:38:07 PM
Paging Dr Al!

i just recieved the old graham farish large prairie tank, which im going to get a new body for, get glossed etc...

any thoughts on how to upgrade the wheel sets and what to? not sure what would look best!

cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 20, 2019, 06:43:47 PM
Paging Dr Al!

i just recieved the old graham farish large prairie tank, which im going to get a new body for, get glossed etc...

any thoughts on how to upgrade the wheel sets and what to? not sure what would look best!

I wouldn't upgrade a silver wheeled model, I'd just obtain a Bachmann version with blackened RP25 wheels and stick with those.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: portland-docks on February 20, 2019, 06:45:25 PM
Paging Dr Al!

i just recieved the old graham farish large prairie tank, which im going to get a new body for, get glossed etc...

any thoughts on how to upgrade the wheel sets and what to? not sure what would look best!

I wouldn't upgrade a silver wheeled model, I'd just obtain a Bachmann version with blackened RP25 wheels and stick with those.

Cheers,
Alan

unfortunatly there isnt a new version from iv seen! theres the small prairie by dapol but large prairie no :(
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 20, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
[unfortunatly there isnt a new version from iv seen! theres the small prairie by dapol but large prairie no :(

New, as in Bachmann production of the Poole design:

(https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-980-LN_3167682_Qty1_ruler.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: portland-docks on February 20, 2019, 06:50:46 PM
[unfortunatly there isnt a new version from iv seen! theres the small prairie by dapol but large prairie no :(

New, as in Bachmann production of the Poole design:

(https://hattonsimages.blob.core.windows.net/products/371-980-LN_3167682_Qty1_ruler.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

ohhh! didnt realise they did that! dayum gonna have to look for that one then!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 20, 2019, 10:06:54 PM
A few more steps made - the B12 tender has advanced considerably. Painted, and now decalled out to match prototype pictures.

Now that will remain until the loco catches up before final finishing and coating is done so all match.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7823/46436847274_7a64d5563c_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/33285137038_cc9dbca534_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 11:03:25 PM
A few more steps made - the B12 tender has advanced considerably. Painted, and now decalled out to match prototype pictures.

Now that will remain until the loco catches up before final finishing and coating is done so all match.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7823/46436847274_7a64d5563c_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7861/33285137038_cc9dbca534_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan

Its looking brilliant :)

One quick question, how easy is it to shorten the wire between the tender and loco on a Union Mills loco?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on February 20, 2019, 11:05:41 PM
One quick question, how easy is it to shorten the wire between the tender and loco on a Union Mills loco?

Pretty trivial - just unscrew it on loco, cut it down and re-insert. I tend to tin it with solder for longevity as well.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: paulprice on February 20, 2019, 11:07:24 PM
One quick question, how easy is it to shorten the wire between the tender and loco on a Union Mills loco?

Pretty trivial - just unscrew it on loco, cut it down and re-insert. I tend to tin it with solder for longevity as well.

Cheers,
Alan

Brilliant thanks for the quick reply, I have a 3F heading my way which I hope is delivered tomorrow when the DO is out.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Train Waiting on February 20, 2019, 11:16:59 PM
One quick question, how easy is it to shorten the wire between the tender and loco on a Union Mills loco?

Pretty trivial - just unscrew it on loco, cut it down and re-insert. I tend to tin it with solder for longevity as well.

Cheers,
Alan

Brilliant thanks for the quick reply, I have a 3F heading my way which I hope is delivered tomorrow when the DO is out.

Most wonderful, Paul and congratulations!  The Union Mills '3F' is a little beauty.  LMS livery I trust (or S&D)?  A MR one would be nice, though...



Alan, the 'B12/3' is looking splendid.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: R Marshall on February 21, 2019, 07:27:15 PM
Look forward to seeing the B12 completed - that tender is gorgeous!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 05, 2019, 09:46:14 PM
After a little bit of down time and other goings on, the B12 has been pushed towards completion.

After first primer coat, some cleaning up has been done followed by the final detailing. This comprised mainly adding of various thin pipes at the front end, as well as replacement of the Westinghouse pump with a separate and appropriate details.

The body is now done - there are a few pipes left off, specifically those running along the footplate - it's just not amenable to get these on as the footplate lip is smaller than the real thing, so any pipework would protrude too much.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7883/46378077355_8896c1cc72_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7915/46378080495_1174be5df9_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7825/33417206358_040ce218d6_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7915/46378077655_73c65f08fb_k.jpg)

Next will be final once over and clean up, final primer coat followed by black.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: thebrighton on March 06, 2019, 10:19:02 AM
It's looking really good Al. I updated mine probably over 10 years ago using a BHE GER tender body and a modified continental tender drive. I may have to revisit it.
(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/74/943-060319101631.jpeg)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Train Waiting on March 06, 2019, 02:56:43 PM
Alan, the 'B12/3' just gets better and better!

Many thanks for these inspirational posts.

Best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 08, 2019, 10:38:10 PM
You can have it in any colour you like, so long as it's (BR) black....

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7887/47321944761_99e416c79f_h.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 11, 2019, 12:12:05 AM
Slower progress on decalling than I'd like due to unexpectedly running out of some of the necessary corners for the mixed traffic lining, but it is moving on.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7917/46428441635_45d60cc10e_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 12, 2019, 12:07:19 AM
More decal progress - slow, but these curves and splashers are some of the most awkward things to do.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7909/46439142885_28280e1506_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: paulprice on March 12, 2019, 01:41:33 PM
More decal progress - slow, but these curves and splashers are some of the most awkward things to do.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7909/46439142885_28280e1506_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Its looking brilliant
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 12, 2019, 10:34:57 PM
Something like over 100 decal segments later, the B12/3 is now virtually done, and conforming to my prototype photo (from "30A Steam on Stratford Shed", by Brian Morrison). Now just a few tiny adjustments left, but glad this frankly mammoth decalling job is now completed! Fortunately I managed to get away without having to buy more sheets, instead making up from various splasher curve sections.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7888/32421312837_98648c563b_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7849/47310482492_b8a8b9b7eb_h.jpg)

And just to prove that I did do both sides....:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7807/46448276015_f4201fdd3a_k.jpg)

Next is clean and minor finishes, then a good coat of gloss to properly seal them before final finish.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: paulprice on March 13, 2019, 08:14:50 PM
Truly brilliant work, I'm in awe
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Train Waiting on March 13, 2019, 09:05:22 PM
Truly brilliant work, I'm in awe

Seconded.  Absolutely first rate.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 17, 2019, 11:41:45 PM
Have now been over the B12 and finished off a few areas that weren't quite done - the bottoms of all the steps needed horizontal lining, and full lining was needed on the front tender steps.

I also added the RA number.

A clean of dust and a sealer varnish layer is the next step.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7855/46492338085_6586e30289_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7828/47354785352_a2056a28a1_k.jpg)

One area that may warrant further attention is the loco-tender gap - it's very large (unnecessarily so) on this, but would need fabrication of a new, fully insulated drawbar, and I'm not sure what I could use that would be strong enough. Needs some thought.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: longbow on March 18, 2019, 12:48:15 AM
You could probably 3D print a shorter drawbar. PLA should be strong enough. Now you mention it I might have a crack at printing one for my UM T9.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 18, 2019, 08:37:51 AM
Superb work, Alan. Very impressive.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 18, 2019, 08:40:51 AM
You could probably 3D print a shorter drawbar. PLA should be strong enough. Now you mention it I might have a crack at printing one for my UM T9.

If you do succeed in printing a drawbar for your Union Mills T9 that you're happy with, I'd like to buy two for my UM T9's to reduce the too large gap between loco. and tender, please.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: thebrighton on March 18, 2019, 10:03:17 AM
I have shortened drawbars buy cutting a section out of the middle, drilled a 0.3mm hole through the centre of the 2 pieces and then slid them over a snuggly fitting broken drill bit (I have many broken 0.3mm ones!) whilst adding a dot of Bostik glue for hard plastics. Not had an issue of them coming apart yet but never pick up the model by just the loco or tender as some do but I guess you wouldn't do that either ;)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: longbow on March 18, 2019, 11:02:01 AM
My T9 is in pieces at present so please advise by how much I can shorten the 3D designed drawbar from its present length of 14.5mm whilst still allowing enough gap to negotiate say an R2 curve. 

Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 18, 2019, 05:45:07 PM
I have shortened drawbars buy cutting a section out of the middle, drilled a 0.3mm hole through the centre of the 2 pieces and then slid them over a snuggly fitting broken drill bit (I have many broken 0.3mm ones!) whilst adding a dot of Bostik glue for hard plastics. Not had an issue of them coming apart yet but never pick up the model by just the loco or tender as some do but I guess you wouldn't do that either ;)

I suspect I wouldn't, but that's not the times you want covered for - it's that one time in 100 where for whatever reason it does accidentally get picked up loco or tender only, or someone else does so.

As such I'd probably prefer a single piece item. If metal could be used it'd be simple, but given both tender and loco are 'live' that's not an option.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: thebrighton on March 18, 2019, 07:08:11 PM
I wonder if there is a suitable Evergreen plastic square tube or similar so you could cut a section of the drawbar out and rejoin it within a length of the tube.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: R Marshall on March 18, 2019, 10:59:52 PM
Have now been over the B12 and finished off a few areas that weren't quite done - the bottoms of all the steps needed horizontal lining, and full lining was needed on the front tender steps.

I also added the RA number.

A clean of dust and a sealer varnish layer is the next step.

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7855/46492338085_6586e30289_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7828/47354785352_a2056a28a1_k.jpg)

One area that may warrant further attention is the loco-tender gap - it's very large (unnecessarily so) on this, but would need fabrication of a new, fully insulated drawbar, and I'm not sure what I could use that would be strong enough. Needs some thought.

Cheers,
Alan

Alan,

Your B12 looks lovely.

I made shorter drawbars for my D20 and J26s from thick black plastic strip drilled through with a pin vice and shaped/finished with a Swiss file. By trial and error I discovered what would allow them to go round the various curves.

So far they're holding up.

Regards,

Roy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 18, 2019, 11:04:51 PM
I wonder if there is a suitable Evergreen plastic square tube or similar so you could cut a section of the drawbar out and rejoin it within a length of the tube.

Possibly....or maybe rectangular brass tube (obviously short enough not to touch loco/tender) to give a shroud that the shortened drawbar halves could be epoxied to.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 23, 2019, 12:42:30 AM
As so often with these things, I never like the final stage of completion - namely varnishing. If ever there's a time it's all going to go wrong, and you've got the most to loose, that is it.

For a long time I've used spray cans of Testors Dullcote, but this is getting increasingly hard to obtain, and like so many things, the EU friendly version is pretty frigging mediocre, and nowhere near as good as the original formulation, being nothing like as matt, and with a tendency of crinkling paintwork if you end up laying it on thick.....which obviously starts to happen when the matt is so much less effective - there've been times I've sprayed semi-gloss models with dullcote and they've remained completely semi-gloss thereafter, no matter how many coats, how much agitation of the can etc.

So given I had almost none left, I've tried something different on the B12 - and nearly came a cropper!

The problem wasn't the actual varnish (Phoenix Precision), but probably what I did - namely that I slightly over thinned it and then airbrushed just a little too much on to the loco (tender fine). Fortunately I checked the model after an hour or two and to my horror had some small areas of bright white in corners and edges where the varnish had slightly gathered and the matting agent seemed to gather up to a white deposit.  :veryangry: :censored:

In a kill or cure I whipped out thinners and cotton buds and took as many of these areas back off to gloss. Fortunately I'd glossed this before and after decalling, so the decals were strongly sealed in, and therefore I think this saved a disaster. After air drying this, a lighter layer (and less thin) was resprayed on the affected areas, and it looks like this has gone down fine, and luckily I don't seem to see any areas where the join of removed varnish and non-removed is actually visible.

I would not have liked to have to strip it and re-do that lining job......  :confused1:  :doh:

There are now a few touch ups to make in matt black, but all going well it should be done thereafter (oh...and I need to fit the safety valves, and probably give the rods a dark wash). It'll be interesting to see how robust this varnish is, as even the EU-dullcote is very robust. In terms of matt, the Phoenix is far better - very light spray gave a much more significant matting than a thick layer of EU-dullcote, so hopefully this was a learning curve and it can replace dullcote going forward.

Hopefully you can't see the joins ! :

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7873/47444933351_2193ffa961_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7889/32503307127_8ea2bc766f_k.jpg)

Lesson learned - less is more!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: longbow on March 23, 2019, 01:26:20 AM
I have 3D printed and experimented with some UM replacement drawbars of various lengths. How much shorter you can go will depend on the loco and minimum radius but on a Dean Goods and a 10.5 inch curve it looks as if a 2mm shorter bar (ie 12.5mm) will work. If anyone wants to try these I can send you the CAD file.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Milton Rail on March 23, 2019, 12:49:50 PM
Some superb work on display Alan and your words of wisdom and encouragement have got me inspired to start trying to improve the models I have, starting with the accessory packs, which I normally leave in the box.

Thanks for all the amazing work you keep posting up
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on March 24, 2019, 09:51:10 PM
Final shots of completed B12:

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7865/46736345664_a17b9b90dc_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7845/32517687787_54144ecea0_k.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7865/46736345314_50036a39dc_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: paulprice on March 24, 2019, 10:19:49 PM
It looks brilliant absolutely brilliant, even to an LMS modeller :)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Newportnobby on March 25, 2019, 09:35:32 AM
Them's the pics I've been waiting for.
Another masterpiece, Alan.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Stevie DC on March 25, 2019, 11:32:38 AM
Incredible work as always Alan!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 25, 2019, 12:00:25 PM
Truly superb work. I am very glad that the Matt vanishing was a success in the end.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Train Waiting on March 25, 2019, 01:38:33 PM
Excellent, Alan; truly excellent.

Congratulations.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Shiney Sheff on March 25, 2019, 08:30:07 PM
Absolutely superb model, looks as good as any RTR.  :greatpicturessign:

Bob
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Camster on March 27, 2019, 10:36:51 PM
It’s a pleasure to see how you achieve such great results and thanks very much for sharing the info about the matt varnish.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on May 26, 2019, 10:31:54 PM
Been a while since the last upload. I've been busy trying to knock off some projects than have been lying around for all too long.

First is a Farish 4P. This model is pretty elderly, and will never be a stunning representation, but there's lots to be done.

As standard:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938307576_64936c4e0e_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938307531_6802ec9261_k.jpg)

Modifications include the following:
- Replacement Bachfarish wheels throughout.
- front end detailing, lamp irons, coupling hook, vac pipe
- cylinder tops re-shaped
- larger front bogie wheels fitted and modified front bogie to accommodate them (clearing the cylinders is a real challenge on this model)
- a new scale BH Enterprises tender, modified with pickups (necessary for this model)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938307906_ed34ca9476_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938285062_324c874298_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938296598_e3c192a658_h.jpg)

The loco now looks a lot better, and fits much more in and around modern models. It's worth effort, because it's a more interesting wheel configuration and type, that isn't really available in any other way.

Beyond that, some refurbishments to old models that have been lying around for far longer than they should. The first are two Peco Jubilees. After mechanical overhaul, both were repainted into BR Green and have come up very nicely. One will soon be for sale (any interest?) as I can't really justify keeping either, but I've already weakened to keep 'Sturdee'!

Some minor works to complete - mainly tidying and lining the cylinders.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938296493_21d10bafef_k.jpg)[/url]

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938307696_9d804363f1_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938284682_86073822dd_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938296118_be1342341a_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: RailGooner on May 26, 2019, 11:18:34 PM
Beautiful work as ever. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Newportnobby on May 27, 2019, 09:32:10 AM
Your work never fails to impress me hugely, Alan :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Delboy on May 27, 2019, 11:09:11 AM
Seconded.
Excellent work Alan.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Bulliedman on May 28, 2019, 09:55:40 AM
Hi Alan

Which wheels did you use to re-wheel the compound ?

Andy
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on May 28, 2019, 10:00:22 AM
Which wheels did you use to re-wheel the compound ?

Farish A4/Duchess/Castle/King (they are all the same).

They needed crank pins drilling out to accept the pins used on the 4P.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Stevie DC on May 28, 2019, 11:28:09 AM
Farish A4/Duchess/Castle/King (they are all the same).

You fooled me here Alan, I thought they were open spokes! :goggleeyes:

Excellent work all round!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on May 29, 2019, 09:30:57 AM
You fooled me here Alan, I thought they were open spokes! :goggleeyes:

The front bogie wheels are, the rest aren't.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: CarriageShed on May 29, 2019, 10:02:00 AM
First is a Farish 4P. This model is pretty elderly, and will never be a stunning representation, but there's lots to be done.

Modifications include the following:
- Replacement Bachfarish wheels throughout.
- front end detailing, lamp irons, coupling hook, vac pipe
- cylinder tops re-shaped
- larger front bogie wheels fitted and modified front bogie to accommodate them (clearing the cylinders is a real challenge on this model)
- a new scale BH Enterprises tender, modified with pickups (necessary for this model)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938307906_ed34ca9476_k.jpg)


Lovely work as always. The only thing I can spot missing is the cab handrails, but that's an easy fix :)

I have several of these 4Ps for my layout and they all need to be converted into 2Ps by removing the cylinders. I've also bought a Union Mills complete front bogie to see if that will work as a replacement for the Farish one. Failing that I have UM front bogie wheels on their own to try out. One day I'll actually get around to trying it!
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Bulliedman on May 29, 2019, 10:37:15 AM
First is a Farish 4P. This model is pretty elderly, and will never be a stunning representation, but there's lots to be done.

Modifications include the following:
- Replacement Bachfarish wheels throughout.
- front end detailing, lamp irons, coupling hook, vac pipe
- cylinder tops re-shaped
- larger front bogie wheels fitted and modified front bogie to accommodate them (clearing the cylinders is a real challenge on this model)
- a new scale BH Enterprises tender, modified with pickups (necessary for this model)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47938307906_ed34ca9476_k.jpg)


Lovely work as always. The only thing I can spot missing is the cab handrails, but that's an easy fix :)

I have several of these 4Ps for my layout and they all need to be converted into 2Ps by removing the cylinders. I've also bought a Union Mills complete front bogie to see if that will work as a replacement for the Farish one. Failing that I have UM front bogie wheels on their own to try out. One day I'll actually get around to trying it!
Turned a couple into 2Ps for the same reason, the Chimney needs some work, I am replacing with N Brass one and one is going to have a Johnson/Deeley Tender from a Bachmann Farish 4F to represent the two that ran in that form up until the mid 50s.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: CarriageShed on May 29, 2019, 11:36:59 AM
Turned a couple into 2Ps for the same reason, the Chimney needs some work, I am replacing with N Brass one and one is going to have a Johnson/Deeley Tender from a Bachmann Farish 4F to represent the two that ran in that form up until the mid 50s.

What's wrong with the chimney? I have photos of 2Ps with exactly the 4P's chimney so I can't see the need to change it at all unless you're working on a specific loco that underwent changes.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on May 29, 2019, 11:40:26 AM
In terms of conversion to 2P, I kind of don't see there's much point nowadays, as a superior 2P can be obtained from Union Mills. It's good as it has a better scale boiler diameter.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: CarriageShed on May 29, 2019, 11:53:31 AM
There's a bit of a budget constraint factor in my collection. I needed three or four, and second-hand Farishes were less than half the price of new UMs at the time.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Bulliedman on May 29, 2019, 12:26:14 PM
Turned a couple into 2Ps for the same reason, the Chimney needs some work, I am replacing with N Brass one and one is going to have a Johnson/Deeley Tender from a Bachmann Farish 4F to represent the two that ran in that form up until the mid 50s.

What's wrong with the chimney? I have photos of 2Ps with exactly the 4P's chimney so I can't see the need to change it at all unless you're working on a specific loco that underwent changes.

Looking at the pictures of 2Ps at Bath IMHO the 4P Compound has a Stove Pipe Chimney and the 2P has a far more elegant chimney which is curved top and bottom , and has no lip at the front. I used a N Brass 4mm chimney on my first attempt and it improves the look and proportions of the front end. Given that the smoke box comes off as a unit its quite easy to do.

Dr Al did you also add the framing on the front footplate ?

Andy P
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - B12/3
Post by: Dr Al on May 30, 2019, 09:53:29 AM
Dr Al did you also add the framing on the front footplate ?

The framing is slightly extended, though that particular detail was done by a previous owner prior to me.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 02, 2019, 11:47:55 PM
Occasionally, you stumble upon an absolute gem on the secondhand market, and this must be such.

It's a scratchbuilt (well, based on some various Farish parts) western region 47xxx 2-8-0. I have no idea who the builder was, but the model is a very nice representation of the real thing. It was pretty paint-rough, and with damage to the tender top as pictured.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48183747037_c493f48460_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48183683811_06fafac154_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48183683741_8fc3c1cb31_k.jpg)

It looks to be the following:
- Farish Hall rear body
- Farish Castle or hall front end
- Farish Hall tender top
- Farish Hall tender frame
- Farish Prairie wheels, cylinders and connecting rods, with scratchbuilt coupling rods
- Scratchbuilt loco chassis block (free wheeler)
- Scratchbuilt tender drive mechanism with Mashima open frame 5 pole motor driving Farish worms and intermediate gears, very similar to a Union Mills drive.
- Farish front bogie with Minitrix wheels.

I have not figured out the source of the tender wheels. Running wise, it ran, but the loco had a limp as did the tender.

As an 'interesting oddity' this is ideal for a sympathetic refurbishment, trying to retain as much of the original model as possible in respect to the original builder.

The first task was modernisation, and hopefully removal of the loco limp. This comprised a wheel replacement, with the Prairie wheels replaced with modern Farish 3MT new tool wheels. Remarkably the rods fit over the crank pins perfectly without being too loose or needing opened out, apart from one hole that seemed slightly out of place and needed opening out. I suspect this was part of the cause of the original limp.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48183747847_2bddcdaf43_k.jpg)

I also took a little of the heavy paint off to see what horrors may lay below, but fortunately none - some nice rivet detail on the cab roof has become more visible, and so far no massive filler amounts or suchlike. Whoever built this certainly had a fair idea what they were doing.

Second task was tender top - this unfortunately is beyond reasonable repair, so a replacement was sought and substituted. This too is a Farish top, so identical to the original. I have started adding some extra detail in the rear handrails to match the loco. I hope to only have to re-line this to match the loco once it is painted, as lining is missing on one side, but paintwork is otherwise crisp.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48183747967_4c9a0a2daa_k.jpg)

The original tender was crammed with lead which will need to be transferred across. But after all this the model now runs better, with no limp on the loco and a tender wobble that's almost certainly down to traction tyres, so this should be easy to put right.

Next will be more cleaning back, probably replacement buffers, and thoughts on a backhead as the cab is completely empty (would have had a motor there in the original Hall).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Stevie DC on July 03, 2019, 12:33:51 AM
That looks rather nice Alan, I'm sure that it will be an enjoyable restoration job for you.  8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: thebrighton on July 03, 2019, 09:13:08 AM
A great find and, as you say, a well built model originally.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: R Marshall on July 03, 2019, 10:18:39 AM
I look forward to following the gradual transition - it's going to be a great model.

I'm not the biggest fan of the GWR, but the "Night Owls" were (and will be again, in time) muscly looking attractive beasts.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Chris in Prague on July 03, 2019, 11:23:24 AM
I'm sure that what was already a fine example of model engineering will look even better when you have finished upgrading it, Alan. I look forward to admiring the work done. I've never seen an N Gauge 47xx model before. An absolute gem for sure.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: w greatbatch on July 03, 2019, 11:47:15 AM
Yep, can't wait to see a bit of Dr. Al magic, by the way,did the Ivatt mogul get finished ?
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 03, 2019, 12:23:52 PM
did the Ivatt mogul get finished ?

Well remembered. No, not yet.

The tender is finished, painted and boxed away, but the loco needs completion.  Other things have tempted my interest (like this 47xx) at the moment, but I will get back to it in time. I still have many others to do including a second V1, a second D49 a second Garratt (with ideas of a conversion), a Gresley Quad-Art set and a Dynamometer car (to go with 46236 and 35017 in loco-exchanges guise).

So lots to do! Is why I'd like the 47xx to be a swift job, and given the lack of need for major works, it hopefully should be.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: trkilliman on July 03, 2019, 01:23:08 PM
I'm sure that what was already a fine example of model engineering will look even better when you have finished upgrading it, Alan. I look forward to admiring the work done. I've never seen an N Gauge 47xx model before. An absolute gem for sure.

I will also follow this with interest !
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 05, 2019, 12:41:35 AM
In the next step forward, I've cleaned off 90% of the original paint with acetone to unveil how this was made.

Instead of being a Hall; it looks to be a Farish Castle bodyshell, heavily modified with all detail removed, cab and front and read footplates cut and re-sited, and various brass details including handrails, splashers. The details on the tops of the front splashers, and the safety valve bonnet look to have been fabricated from scratch in whitemetal. I had initially thought to replace the bonnet with an N-brass one, but I'm thinking now of keeping it and doing minor detailing to it only instead.

The right side boiler handrail needs some repair work as it was fairly heavily glued to hold, and trying to pare this back has let it come free. Solder may be the answer. The smokebox door dart is fairly poor original on the plastic Castle smokebox, so this will be replaced. Buffers will be replaced as the Farish originals look a tad too small in head diameter. Loco tender gap looks a little large, so I'll need to see if there's scope and clearance to close this a bit.

There is a bit of filler, but a respectably small and well executed amount. Overall, this is still a very tidy build. We'll need to see after the detailing and refurb is primered to see if I continue to say that though!

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48200492286_92ff16e0f7_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48200492196_7a90c5b9e1_k.jpg)

The tender has had the remaining lining removed, and the rear details painted. It needs a few front details and then it can get glossed ready for replacement lining. I intend to keep the Bachfarish printed crests as they are nice and fine.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48200538802_9b09797fd7_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Garyf on July 05, 2019, 08:12:26 AM
Hi Alan, looking forward to see how you get on with the quad art set. Are you using the Shapeways set as your start point?  It's a particular favourite of mine having had a close up look at the set at the North Norfolk Railway on one of their behind the scenes visits, hopefully the set will be in use during their vintage travel gala 11-14th July. I will be there to ride them again.

Gary
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 05, 2019, 08:59:05 AM
Hi Alan, looking forward to see how you get on with the quad art set. Are you using the Shapeways set as your start point?  It's a particular favourite of mine having had a close up look at the set at the North Norfolk Railway on one of their behind the scenes visits, hopefully the set will be in use during their vintage travel gala 11-14th July. I will be there to ride them again.

Gary

Yes, I have a set from Shapeways. It'll need quite a bit of work, and I believe from @Stevie DC (formerly Atso) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) that there are some inaccuracies in the planking, so it'll need some consideration as to what (if anything) may warrant correction.

If you have any photos from the behind the scenes, please do post them, as prototype pics are always infinitely useful when building a model like that.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Stevie DC on July 05, 2019, 09:05:14 AM
Yes, I have a set from Shapeways. It'll need quite a bit of work, and I believe from @Stevie DC (formerly Atso) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=213) that there are some inaccuracies in the planking, so it'll need some consideration as to what (if anything) may warrant correction.

There were some issues with the paneling when I was shown a set. However, this was some time ago and I do know that the designer was made aware of this. It may have been corrected since then.

There are three basic types of Quad set (more if you include some of the Howlden rebuilds but they weren't used in the same way). The basic differences as I understand them are:

- 1921 GN Builds: Opening door toplights, recessed guards ends, duckets and mounted on Fox bogies. Rebuilds of earlier coaches and, in later life, the toplights were sealed or paneled over.
- 1923-24 Early LNER Builds: Similar to the above but mounted on Gresley bogies.
- 1925-28 LNER Builds: No recessed guards end, no duckets, ventilators on the doors and mounted on Gresley bogies.

Personally, I'm going to get mine etched eventually, but I know that isn't everyone's cut of tea. It'll be awhile though as I've got several other coaches for Hadley Wood to design first.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Garyf on July 05, 2019, 10:34:01 AM
Hi Alan, I'll have a look to see what I've got, I don't think I took many behind the scenes but I have a few more from when they were in use at the NNR. If you have anything specific you'd like I'll try to get some shots next week, assuming the set will be in use,

Gary

Twelve pictures added to my gallery of the quad art set
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: icairns on July 06, 2019, 03:58:41 PM
Congratulations on a great looking model.  I think refurbishing/upgrading scratch-built and kit-built models is a very good modelling activity.

For those that are interested, the July 2019 Steam World (issue #385) has an article and 9 photos (colour and black and white) of the 47XX locos in action including one large colour photo of 4704 that shows a lot of detail for the modeller.

Ian 
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 07, 2019, 06:50:49 PM
A public thanks to Gary for sending and uploading his Quad-Art pics, very useful indeed as reference material.

It's a lovely looking set.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 08, 2019, 12:44:42 AM
After the archaeology, I've now turned to starting the refurbishment on the 47xx body.

The chimney was scratchbuilt with a Farish top, but I've chosen to replace it as the prototypes seemed to have had a pronounced capuchon that the original did not have. A N Brass King chimney has been substituted. I've also replaced the buffers and the smokebox door dart with one made of handrail knobs.

The big task was refurbishing the right side boiler handrail. The rail needed a replacement knob at top of smokebox, and came apart on the right side where it had come away from the pipe on the boiler side. All this had originally been glued, but was all nickel silver. I therefore was able to replace all the knobs on that side, tidy up the shape of the rail and re-solder it all back together. It's not perfect, but this is a particularly awkward and difficult rail to deal with since it runs concurrently with the boilers-side pipe.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48226286197_722ecab133_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48226229151_92e4cf28c9_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48226285972_8f2e6fbe5a_b.jpg)

There is some quite deep scratching and pitting on the base body casting, particularly on top of the firebox - presumably from the re-shaping of the shell, but it possibly explains the heavy paint job. Hopefully this will be ok with primer and sanding during preparation for paint.

Loco still needs replacement lamp irons, the reverser replaced (it was plasticard which just disintegrated with age), and would benefit from rear sandboxes. I may replace the rear cab handrails also, depending on whether I think I can improve them.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 09, 2019, 09:54:15 PM
Progress on 47xx has been swift, mainly because the original builder did such a decent job, that it's really just minor changes and details that are already being added.

I've finished the front end with lamp irons, also removing the top iron which wasn't in place on smokebox top in BR late era (reminds me...I need to put that one on the smokebox....)

I've improved the safety valve bonnet, reaming the top and adding some representation of the valve tops on top. It remains to be seen how this will look when actually primed and painted.

I've added the reverser rod and other rodding on the right hand side. Originally I was just going to add a basic straight rod, but ambition got the better of me and I managed to pull off adding the mounting bar and slide at the firebox base. I'm fairly happy with the result.

I also added front handrails to the tender. This does make me feel that I might have to remove the cab rails and replace to match - thoughts?

We are now very close to paint - those handrails need considered, the front lamp iron and a fall plate (I may add this after paint if I choose to), and tender brake standards.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48243887417_2fa0a66ba5_h.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48243887317_eeeea6f74a_k.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48243887177_9b95c08227_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48243802886_0f75d8ae00_k.jpg)

As one works on such some inaccuracies do crop up - I've noticed that the loco and tender don't quite line up - this will have to stay - something isn't quite perfect, but to change it would be basically impossible.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Train Waiting on July 10, 2019, 07:40:13 AM
Hello Alan

What a terrific model!  Thank you very much for your posts about it.

I think the existing cabside handrail is actually a good representation of what was fitted to these locomotives.

With best wishes.

John
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 10, 2019, 08:07:37 AM
which range of paint are you using please ? thank you
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 10, 2019, 09:05:22 AM
which range of paint are you using please ? thank you

Not got to paint on this model yet! But when I do it'll be various from Phoenix Precision and Humbrol, all enamels.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 10, 2019, 09:08:17 AM
Thank you
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Stevie DC on July 10, 2019, 09:11:18 AM
Excellent work Alan, I can't wait to see this one with some paint slapped on it!  8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 10, 2019, 09:16:19 AM
Excellent work Alan, I can't wait to see this one with some paint slapped on it!  8)

I'll try and avoid 'slapping'....lol....that's what it had originally!

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Stevie DC on July 10, 2019, 10:19:20 AM
I'll try and avoid 'slapping'....lol....that's what it had originally!

You know what I mean!  :D
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Newportnobby on July 10, 2019, 01:29:39 PM

I also added front handrails to the tender. This does make me feel that I might have to remove the cab rails and replace to match - thoughts?


Far be it for me to comment on your modelling, Alan, but you did ask.
The difference in hand rail thicknesses twixt tender and loco does stand out in those cruel close ups but those on the cab match those elsewhere on the loco. Sorry, but I just don't know what to suggest is the best option.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: maridunian on July 10, 2019, 02:52:17 PM

I also added front handrails to the tender. This does make me feel that I might have to remove the cab rails and replace to match - thoughts?


Far be it for me to comment on your modelling, Alan, but you did ask.
The difference in hand rail thicknesses twixt tender and loco does stand out in those cruel close ups but those on the cab match those elsewhere on the loco. Sorry, but I just don't know what to suggest is the best option.

An extra coat or two of paint on the new tender handrails to bulk them up a little?

Mike
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 10, 2019, 06:24:35 PM
Interesting to hear viewpoints on the handrails, and perhaps predictably, folks have noticed something completely different to me!

I was more concerned with the lack of separation of the vertical cab handrail from the cabside and the lack of handrail knob at the top, rather than the rail diameter.

I think changing the rail diameter is not necessary if I reuse the nickel wire currently used.

Still undecided as to whether to change it.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Stevie DC on July 10, 2019, 06:47:16 PM
I don't think that the difference in handrail diameter will be all that noticeable once you've painted the model. I've done some mixing repair jobs in the past and nobody has pointed out the differences on the finished models so far.
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Newportnobby on July 10, 2019, 09:48:44 PM

I was more concerned with the lack of separation of the vertical cab handrail from the cabside and the lack of handrail knob at the top, rather than the rail diameter.


Can't say as I'd noticed that so maybe the opticians beckons me 8) :-[
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Hailstone on July 10, 2019, 10:16:40 PM
Not meant as a criticism Alan, but neither the tender or loco cab handrails terminate in a handrail knob. as shown below, the cab side handrail is welded to the cab side cut out beading whether Collett or Churchward.

(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/79/1193-100719220314.jpeg)

the tender handrail is welded to a piece of flat steel that twists through 90 degrees and is bolted to the tender side with 2 round head bolts - you can just see one of them to the left of the fireman's hand. I know this because I had a hand in restoring 5051 Drysllwyn Castle, and in this picture, I am on the right (I was the driver that day and was teaching the guy in the middle to drive) hope this helps

Regards,

Alex 
 
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 10, 2019, 10:47:31 PM
Not meant as a criticism Alan, but neither the tender or loco cab handrails terminate in a handrail knob. as shown below, the cab side handrail is welded to the cab side cut out beading whether Collett or Churchward.

This is a fair comment, but for this model there's a level of pragmatism that has to be applied - replicating that (particularly on the plastic tender that isn't a perfect representation anyway) in N is just not worth trying given the size...

...the handrail knobs themselves are only 0.45mm diameter! I've done something similar in the past, but that was soldered to a metal tender and was slightly larger. I think doing that on this would just end up far too fragile for handling.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 10, 2019, 10:59:08 PM
The refurb is almost complete - I think pretty much all parts have now been added.

I've added the front lamp iron on smokebox door, a small piece of pipework on the cab front, and the tender brake standards (LNER ones, but they're close enough for me).

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48252672522_cdd674d986_h.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48252606841_219953e5e3_b.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48252606781_27b072bc11_h.jpg)

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48252606671_02f40c3cc1_k.jpg)

Primer beckons.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: crewearpley40 on July 10, 2019, 11:14:06 PM
Must be pleased alan. Looking good
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Hailstone on July 11, 2019, 05:34:18 AM
I am as green as the engine will be, but with envy, another outstanding job Alan. by the way, what is the minimum radius that it will negotiate?

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 11, 2019, 09:30:25 AM
what is the minimum radius that it will negotiate?

I've clearance tested it on R2 10.5" radius (albeit free rolling), which is tighter than anything it'll be run on (min 12"). I suspect it would do R1 9" radius, though probably would want more loco weight. That's something I intend to do anyway, as the loco body is completely empty, and I want to add further pickups to the front wheels which will only add more drag.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 12, 2019, 11:19:36 PM
The first coat of primer showed......a *lot* of surface blemishes, scratches and holes.

So there's been a fair bit of sanding, smoothing, and light filling prior to next round (I think there will be several).

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48268073506_fd1917d774_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 14, 2019, 11:54:21 PM
Round 2 of filler and primer and things are improving, but still a number of blemishes to improve, particularly on lower smokebox and lower firebox. This may seem overkill, but airbrushed paint is totally unforgiving because it does on so thin, so the base surface needs to be as good as possible.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48285044296_ae9f9aad85_k.jpg)

Also pottering with the second V1, while cleaning the 47xxs surfaces, I felt I might as well do the same on this - it's a job I really don't enjoy! Some details already fitted, but I've now run out of handrail parts, so progress will pause on those until more ordered.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48285045081_fe04efa482_k.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Dr Al on July 17, 2019, 11:45:25 PM
Yet another filler, smoothing, primer pass and still not perfect on the 47xx. There will be point where I'll have to accept it won't get much better. A lot of the worst is better though, particularly the area where the smokebox transitions into the boiler.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48310820957_70bc24b098_b.jpg)

In parallel, I've finished re-lining the tender. It's done, just needing final varnishing, which won't happen until the loco reaches the same stage.

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48310820892_6b6003d851_k.jpg)

In parallel I've fast pushed the V1 to a point where I'm stuck until supplies arrive. Only a few handrails to do (all need set and bonded, so some are at wonky angles just now), hole to drill for whistle, and safety valves to fit.

Rear bogie, with pickups:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48310820827_221ba1cc25_h.jpg)

Rear detail. Lamp irons have been replaced to be consistent with those on loco front:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48310708351_d1db789d98_b.jpg)

Top lamp iron and numberplate fitted:
(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/48310708301_1f196405c5_b.jpg)

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Stevie DC on July 18, 2019, 09:51:13 AM
Great stuff Alan. I'm really loving what you're doing with that 47xx!  8)
Title: Re: Dr Al's workbench - 47xx
Post by: Doc Pye on July 18, 2019, 12:18:42 PM
Making good progress Alan and giving me loads of ideas on how to upgrade some of my own! On the primer front, what are you using?