N Gauge Forum

Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => Coaches => Topic started by: trkilliman on July 02, 2014, 05:40:24 PM

Title: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: trkilliman on July 02, 2014, 05:40:24 PM
I'm looking forward to the release of these distinctive carriages. What with the Dapol Grange and the  Farish 64xx on pre-order from Hattons it's going to be an enjoyable and expensive time for me! 
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on July 03, 2014, 07:19:16 PM
And the Farish Castle to haul them.  :angel:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: trkilliman on July 03, 2014, 07:44:32 PM
Crikey, I'd forgot about the Castle...lol
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on July 04, 2014, 03:43:58 PM
I'm just hoping Farish does a run of Hawksworths in Maroon.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on March 16, 2015, 09:06:56 PM
I'm just hoping Farish does a run of Hawksworths in Maroon.

Me, too. I'm sure they will.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on May 05, 2015, 01:33:16 PM
Decorated samples now up on the Farish website in both GWR and BR liveries.

http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=353 (http://www.bachmann.co.uk/details.php?id=353)

Hopefully not long to wait now.  :angel:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on May 05, 2015, 03:29:36 PM
Many thanks for the update. That's good news. Interesting that the BG is only available in BR Crimson & Cream; I presume none were built under the GWR? What most of us need, however, are the BR Maroon versions which lasted into the late 1960s (a whole train of them could be seen as late as 1966). A very few select Hawksworth SKs did get BR Blue and Grey livery, so that's another variant.

So, I'll have in Crimson & Cream BGs from Stanier and Hawksworth and in BR Maroon from Collett and Thompson. Hence I'm selling off some BR Maroon Standard BGs!
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on May 05, 2015, 03:49:36 PM
That is correct. The K45/46 BGs were completed after the introduction of crimson and cream so never carried GWR livery. The Hornby 00 gauge version is based on the example which was restored at Didcot and carries this livery currently but is not historically accurate.

I agree that Maroon versions would be nice and the blue/grey versions would certainly add interest. Hopefully Farish are planning the Maroon ones for the future.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on September 01, 2015, 09:00:40 PM
I'll try post photos tonight or tomorrow but I've just picked up a third and composite in GWR colours from my local model shop (all the brakes have sold out, which isn't surprising).  I paid 25.50 each for my coaches, which probably makes them the most expensive generally released coaches I've bought to date. 

I think these are the best N-gauge coaches so far released.  The detail in the moulding and decoration seems truly amazing, right down to the red surrounds for the window frames on the droplights (such a small detail you almost don't notice). On the corridor side there is a printed line on the inside of the glass, which I guess is supposed to be a grab rail.  All the printing is really crisp with no fuzzy edges.  It looks like the first class seats even have the arm rests moulded into the seats.

I suppose you could say that a lot of this detail is un-necessary, after all you can't see it from anything more than a few inches away, but it is nice to know it is there.  What you do notice, even from quite a distance, is the shape of the roof and the lines made by the rivets and other details.

The GWR isn't even my main area of interest (I'm more of a BR Western Region person) but these coaches were so good I had to have them.  When the Crimson/Cream coaches arrive I'll buy one or two and if/when BR Maroon versions join the range I'll probably buy one of each version released.

Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 01, 2015, 10:19:46 PM
I look forward to the photos., John. I'm definitely going to buy a good selection of BR Maroon Hawksworth coaches, not least because the WR used some in North Cornwall after dieselisation (with locos.) and, maybe, even slightly before. So far, the GWS at Bodmin has a single Collett plus an autocoach in GWR livery so a brake end Hawksworth in GWR livery would be a useful addition. I am also awaiting the BR Crimson and BR Maroon Hawksworth BGs.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on September 02, 2015, 03:05:15 PM
Some photos of the GWR-livery Hawksworths.  One thing I didn't appreciate until I coupled my coaches together is how small the gap is between the gangways.  It hardly seems worth fitting short couplings and might not even be possible.

I've concentrated on the composite as I think it is the more interesting to photograph.

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28636.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28636)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28637.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28637)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28638.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28638)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28639.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28639)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28640.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28640)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28642.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28642)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28643.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28643)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28644.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28644)

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/18/thumb_28645.JPG) (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=28645)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: ScottyStitch on September 02, 2015, 03:17:46 PM
That is correct. The K45/46 BGs were completed after the introduction of crimson and cream so never carried GWR livery. The Hornby 00 gauge version is based on the example which was restored at Didcot and carries this livery currently but is not historically accurate.

I agree that Maroon versions would be nice and the blue/grey versions would certainly add interest. Hopefully Farish are planning the Maroon ones for the future.

What sort of geographical adventures did these get up to? Were they all over the BR system in Maroon or limited to certain areas only?
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 02, 2015, 03:53:51 PM
What sort of geographical adventures did these get up to? Were they all over the BR system in Maroon or limited to certain areas only?

They were built for the WR and that is the most common place to find them. However like many full brakes, a lot gravitated to use on parcel trains which took them all over the network. I have photos of them in places as far flung as Abergele in BR blue days.

Here is one in Maroon on the Newcastle-KX parcels near Hadley Wood in December 1961 so they certainly did wander.
(http://www.steve-banks.org/images/historical/parcels/60500_pcls_600_360_72us.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on September 02, 2015, 04:26:43 PM
Very nice coaches, John, and the close coupling looks great. What size curves have you run them round please? :uneasy:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on September 02, 2015, 04:42:34 PM
My main oval is Peco 2nd radius and I have 1st radius points.  The Hawksworth coaches run through 1st radius crossovers without issue whether pushed or pulled.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on September 02, 2015, 04:49:38 PM
Thanks, John. Looks like another one awaiting the maroon versions, then :D
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 02, 2015, 05:14:04 PM
Those really are beautiful models of very attractive coaches, John. I've now ordered from Rails of Sheffield one GWR livery Hawksworth brake end coach for the GWS, Bodmin! 8-) I had to resist ordering another GWR livery one or the two BR Crimson & Cream but will order both in BR Maroon when available.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: leachsprite4 on September 03, 2015, 08:49:41 PM
Lovely models, I am very impressed. I'm wondering if my Dapol collet coaches might have to be replaced by these. Graham
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Kris on September 03, 2015, 09:15:09 PM
Tried to pick the ones up that I have ordered today. I got to the shop and despite their website showing as being in stock I was told that they had not been received yet. I was not very impressed with that. 
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Kris on September 03, 2015, 09:16:50 PM
Lovely models, I am very impressed. I'm wondering if my Dapol collet coaches might have to be replaced by these. Graham

Keep the Dapol ones. Run them with the Hawksworths in mixed rakes, along with any other older GW coaches you can find and you won't be far wrong in the train make up.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: leachsprite4 on September 03, 2015, 09:30:53 PM
Kris thanks for that a very good point, now to convince the financial authorities  :bounce:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 03, 2015, 10:14:34 PM
Lovely models, I am very impressed. I'm wondering if my Dapol collet coaches might have to be replaced by these. Graham

Keep the Dapol ones. Run them with the Hawksworths in mixed rakes, along with any other older GW coaches you can find and you won't be far wrong in the train make up.

Good advice. Uniform rakes were rare on the GWR/WR apart from principle named expresses. Normal practice was to get the big expresses new stock every 5 years or so and then cascade the older stuff meaning that everything else often ended up a real pick'n'mix of stock.

Here are some shots from the 1950s showing fairly typical mish-mashes of different vintage stock.

(http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/hockley/gwrhd698.jpg)
(http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/stratfordgwr/gwrsa1503.jpg)
(http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/leamingtonstation/leamington_locos/gwrls2124.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: leachsprite4 on September 05, 2015, 09:30:05 PM
hmm that is very tempting, but I will hold my cash until maroon coaches arrive. I am holding out for the NGS full break going on general sale (to members) as they turned out rather more tempting than I thought (well done all involved in that one).

Graham
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on September 05, 2015, 09:59:22 PM
I am looking forward to maroon Hawksworth coaches (maybe next year, please Bachmann).

The NGS Collett BG is a fine model, I would like a GWR one to go with my GWR livery Hawksworth coaches.  If only Dapol would retool its range of Collett coaches as these are looking a bit dated now.

My collection now includes Hawksworth Brake Third coaches in Chocolate/Cream and Crimson/Cream.  I'll add photos when I get the chance.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 05, 2015, 10:24:22 PM
The NGS Collett BG is a fine model, I would like a GWR one to go with my GWR livery Hawksworth coaches.  If only Dapol would retool its range of Collett coaches as these are looking a bit dated now.
That might be good. Or even better might be to do some of the earlier 1930s Collett bow-ended stock like Hornby are doing in 00. Then we will have 3 different families of GWR stock to chose from or mix together.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: leachsprite4 on September 05, 2015, 10:56:25 PM
Who knows as Bachmann appear to be unveiling little bits during the year, note the OO 117s today. A third GWR coach would be good but I feel unlikely at this time, they could of course add more to collet range like the rare open third as preserved at South Devon Railway.

Graham
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 05, 2015, 11:39:28 PM
The Colletts are dated and not entirely accurate (squeezing 4 diagrams out of only 2 body toolings  :confused1: ). I think they will either rework them completely or go for something else. The Collets were nice when they first came out as they were the first prototypical pre-nationalisation coaches to be offered since the minitrix Gresleys.

But they are showing their age. I think they are shoot downs of the old Mainline 00 toolings from the 1980s. Certainly they share the same trick of using the C77 all-third tooling to also represent a composite(E158) and a a brake composite tooling to also represent a brake 3rd.

I cannot see Dapol adding modern standard models to the same family while leaving the existing models alone. It would throw the compromises of the existing models into exaggerated relief.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: leachsprite4 on September 06, 2015, 07:37:01 AM
Thank you, I've  just checked the photos again and also realised that the door pattern is different on the open to the corridor, I had previously thought it was just a different interior to insert. :doh:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: GrahamB on September 07, 2015, 08:08:05 AM
I'm thinking about adding a rake of Hawksworth carriages for Southbridge but I'm wondering if they would have made it to secondary main lines in GWR days.

Of course, I could always apply rule one  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 07, 2015, 09:58:55 AM
I'm thinking about adding a rake of Hawksworth carriages for Southbridge but I'm wondering if they would have made it to secondary main lines in GWR days.

Of course, I could always apply rule one  :hmmm:

In GWR days, Hawksworth coaches would have been confined to the most important expresses; however, trains do get diverted due to engineering works on their usual route . . .
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 07, 2015, 10:43:25 AM
Something of a rarity here. A shot of 5076 'Gladiator' approaching  Harbury Tunnel in 1955. The train is composed almost exclusively of Hawksworth stock and looks very smart. The exception is the obligatory catering vehicle about halfway back the train.

(http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/harburycutting/gwrhc92.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: GrahamB on September 07, 2015, 11:34:50 AM
In GWR days, Hawksworth coaches would have been confined to the most important expresses; however, trains do get diverted due to engineering works on their usual route . . .
:claphappy:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on September 07, 2015, 01:43:07 PM
I'm thinking about adding a rake of Hawksworth carriages for Southbridge but I'm wondering if they would have made it to secondary main lines in GWR days.

Of course, I could always apply rule one  :hmmm:

You might also find one or two coaches detached from an express to provide a through service to destinations that wouldn't justify a whole train.  Stratford-upon-Avon was served by through coaches detached from or attached to some London-Birmingham and Birmingham-London services and in GWR days.

So I think you can justify having the Hawksworth coaches running on your secondary main line. 
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 07, 2015, 02:33:51 PM
Quote
I'm thinking about adding a rake of Hawksworth carriages for Southbridge but I'm wondering if they would have made it to secondary main lines in GWR days.

Whilst some Hawksworth coaches went straight to update the principle expresses, I believe that some were built to replace the last clerestory coaches and so some could be seen mixed in on less prestigious trains almost from new. I will try to find some definite info/photos to back up this hunch.

The other question is, what do you consider a secondary mainline?
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: GrahamB on September 07, 2015, 06:58:40 PM
The other question is, what do you consider a secondary mainline?
It's a very subjective term I agree. I would suggest the Ludlow to Hereford line as a candidate (Retires to don flame proof suit ;) ;))
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 07, 2015, 08:00:17 PM
It all depends on which time period you're thinking of Graham.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: R Marshall on September 07, 2015, 08:39:49 PM
I find Hawksworth carriages, the Counties and the 94xx some of the most attractive GWR designs (though the Dukedogs and the Dean Goods are also candidates).

But I'm not well up on the GWR and wonder what you folks think?
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 07, 2015, 08:44:24 PM
I certainly think that the Hawksworth design coaches were some of the most elegant of the GWR designs but would add the Ocean and Special Saloons, too (not available as RTR models and not even, to my knowledge, as kits?) I won't argue about locos. except to say that I do like the 94XX and have a BR Black Graham Farish one.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on September 07, 2015, 09:56:04 PM
I'm thinking about adding a rake of Hawksworth carriages for Southbridge but I'm wondering if they would have made it to secondary main lines in GWR days.

I have had a rummage in my library and it seems they may have done, at least some of the time. Due to post-war shortages of both skilled workers and materials, the Hawksworths were quite slow to be delivered with only 1 vehicle per week emerging from Swindon during 1946. This meant that it was difficult to construct full rakes of the new stock in the way that the GWR had tended to do before the war. Even then, the new stock didn't always stay where it was put for very long.

For example, although the CRE was allocated a rake of Hawksworth stock in 1946, it was replaced in 1948 with an older rake of Collett Sunshine stock painted in experimental Plum and Split Milk livery with the preceding Hawksworths sent elsewhere. Certainly by the early 50s, Hawksworth stock could be found in both the Aberystwyth and Pwllheli portions of the Cambrian Coast Express. Definitely a candidate for secondary mainline status there I recon.;)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 08, 2015, 05:17:35 AM
In BR Maroon livery days it was normal to see a mix of Hawksworths and BR Standard coaches and even Colletts earlier.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: GrahamB on September 08, 2015, 07:36:54 AM
It all depends on which time period you're thinking of Graham.
1934 - 1948.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 08, 2015, 08:49:44 AM
It all depends on which time period you're thinking of Graham.
1934 - 1948.

I think as part of the main North-South route the line was rather more important in those years than it became in later BR years.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: JonHarbour on September 08, 2015, 10:26:39 AM
Much to my surprise and delight, my Blood and Custard brake 3rd arrived in the post today. What a fantastic model - seems to have a bit more weight than the Mk1s. Can't wait to try it on my local club's layout on Friday.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Ollie3440 on September 09, 2015, 12:40:15 PM
Afternoon all,

Just paid for my three which will be delivered to me on the Sunday morning of TINGS. Chocolate cream brake and all third for Sheaf along with a crimson cream brake for Wenlock.

Cheers,

Ollie
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Ben Line 457 on September 16, 2015, 08:04:20 PM
I model the early 70's, so I am saving my pennies to buy a Hawksworth Full Brake shortly, but it will have to be repainted BR Blue.
I was wondering if anyone - after light bar fitting or similar - has any tips on dismantling one of these beauties?
They are such good models - not to mention expensive - that I don't want to butcher it!

I really don't expect Farish to release one in Blue, well at least not until about three days after I finish the repaint!
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on September 16, 2015, 08:19:50 PM
If you're patient I would expect Graham Farish to release one in BR Blue, eventually.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Ben Line 457 on September 16, 2015, 08:24:39 PM
If you're patient I would expect Graham Farish to release one in BR Blue, eventually.

I think the timing will still be be just after I repaint one! and as for patience its not my strong point.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: trkilliman on November 07, 2015, 06:41:36 PM
I have just been given a Hawksworth 1st/3rd corr'comp' in C&C as a present by my wife.

What a really stunning model (the coach that is)   I had read reviews in the model press but tend to be my own judge on these things. They were spot on with their reviews of these coaches though.  I fancy a full brake now....
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 07, 2015, 07:18:13 PM
The Hawksworth full brake is indeed a lovely model and well worth the high price. The only fault I can find is that the characteristic blue axlebox covers are actually painted too high.

My BR Crimson & Cream Hawksworth BG with a WR BR Standard BCK at Cant Cove.

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/20151102_140335_zpsohnzafz0.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/20151102_140335_zpsohnzafz0.jpg.html)

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/20151102_140522_zpssndmfuiy.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/20151102_140522_zpssndmfuiy.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on November 07, 2015, 07:44:46 PM
Well spotted, Chris. I hadn't noticed, but my crimson and cream version is the same.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Roy L S on November 07, 2015, 08:15:11 PM
I have the crimson/cream Full Brake. It really is a superb model. Again the bar has been raised with these coaches in my humble opinion. Let's hope we see Thompsons next to an equally high standard (The NGS Full Brake will be an indication of what we could expect should they choose to go for the passenger vehicles).

Roy
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Hailstone on November 10, 2015, 07:11:22 PM
The Hawksworth full brake is indeed a lovely model and well worth the high price. The only fault I can find is that the characteristic blue axlebox covers are actually painted too high.

My BR Crimson & Cream Hawksworth BG with a WR BR Standard BCK at Cant Cove.

([url]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/20151102_140335_zpsohnzafz0.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/20151102_140335_zpsohnzafz0.jpg.html[/url])

([url]http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/20151102_140522_zpssndmfuiy.jpg[/url]) ([url]http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/20151102_140522_zpssndmfuiy.jpg.html[/url])

Only the top half of the axle box was painted, the bottom half which contained the oil and the pad was removable, and remained black.

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 10, 2015, 07:21:13 PM
Many thanks, Alex. I had remembered seeing the axleboxes as being all blue. It's good to know that Dapol got that right after putting erroneous First Class window stickers in the Maunsell BSKs.

Best regards,
Chris
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Roy L S on November 10, 2015, 08:05:50 PM
Farish got it right - the Hawksworth is a Farish model!
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 10, 2015, 08:19:33 PM
Farish got it right - the Hawksworth is a Farish model!

My apologies to Bachmann (Graham Farish), Roy.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on November 26, 2016, 02:29:23 PM
Does anyone know if Graham Farish (Bachmann) plan to produce the Hawksworth coaches in BR Lined Maroon livery? I would have thought that a more popular choice then BR Crimson & Cream which is less suitable for the popular BR WR Steam / Diesel Transition Era. I would certainly buy some.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on November 26, 2016, 03:08:01 PM
I haven't heard of any such plans which is quite odd. You would have thought they would be keen to cash in on the tooling. Maybe someone could ask at Warley.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: longbow on November 30, 2016, 08:57:24 PM
Hopefully the upcoming Castle will be an incentive for Farish to release some maroon versions.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chetcombe on November 30, 2016, 09:50:30 PM
Hopefully the upcoming Castle will be an incentive for Farish to release some maroon versions.


Completely agree - I would get an assorted rake if/when they appear in BR Maroon. Plus of course a BG in Maroon and/or Blue.

I would also love a Hawksworth SK in Blue/Grey as 3 of them made it into this livery (see link below). I assume the SK would be the same coach as the original 3rd Corridor?  Even more unusual, according to this site, 3 composites appeared in Brunswick Green in 1961...

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriescoach1948.html (http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriescoach1948.html)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on November 30, 2016, 10:26:03 PM
Hopefully the upcoming Castle will be an incentive for Farish to release some maroon versions.


Completely agree - I would get an assorted rake if/when they appear in BR Maroon. Plus of course a BG in Maroon and/or Blue.

I would also love a Hawksworth SK in Blue/Grey as 3 of them made it into this livery (see link below). I assume the SK would be the same coach as the original 3rd Corridor?  Even more unusual, according to this site, 3 composites appeared in Brunswick Green in 1961...

[url]http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriescoach1948.html[/url] ([url]http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriescoach1948.html[/url])


I hadn't realised about the green Hawksworths until I saw one modelled as part of a DMU at the Warley model rail exhibition recently.

But I'll be content with a selection of maroon Hawksworth coaches.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: dodger on December 01, 2016, 08:43:39 AM

I hadn't realised about the green Hawksworths until I saw one modelled as part of a DMU at the Warley model rail exhibition recently.

But I'll be content with a selection of maroon Hawksworth coaches.

They were all allocated to Reading and as stated in a previous link they were used to make up 4-car class 119 sets.
I'm not sure if they ever ran in 4-car class 117 sets when they were gangwayed. Most of the class 119's left Reading when all of the class 117 & 118 sets were delivered. The Hawksworth coaches were withdraw by 1966 and replaced by class 101 TCL's. I believe one of the Hawksworths may have been used to make up a 3 car GWR railcar set in the 1950's.

Dodger
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on December 01, 2016, 09:07:12 AM
I believe one of the Hawksworths may have been used to make up a 3 car GWR railcar set in the 1950's.


Various ex-GWR coaches were used as centre coaches for the twin-railcars over the years. But I think the only green one was a Collett C77 open third (as modelled by Dapol) that was used as a centre coach for the Railcar. The set is pictured here between Reading and Newbury.

(http://i234.photobucket.com/albums/ee199/Karhedronuk/w33w_2_zpswawyfqtv.jpg)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on December 01, 2016, 12:44:39 PM
I really do hope that the Hawksworth coaches become available in BR Lined Maroon, next year. Maybe one of the major retailers will produce a Hawksworth SK in Blue/Grey? Producing a Collett C77 open third (as modelled by Dapol) for use a centre coach for an ex-GWR diesel railcar twin set is probably a job for a skilled modeller. (Respraying is not a problem, for me, but lining would be!)

In Hugh Dady's book 'Heyday of the Warships' (IA), on p.49, there is a photo of the up 'CRE' on 29 May 1967 with a blue & grey Hawksworth SK as the leading coach behind two Green 'Warships'.

The only photo I know of that shows three blue/grey Hawksworth coaches (all SKs) is Plate 32 in "Profile of the Warships". They are in a train entering Exeter St Davids from the West behind D806 'Cambrian'. The date given is 17 August 1968. There are photos of individual blue/grey Hawksworths, including colour ones, behind Westerns, D800 Warships and D600 Warships. Around 1967, one appears to have been the regular Plymouth-Penzance coach added to the front of the 'Cornish Riviera', and running as the leading vehicle in both directions west of Plymouth.

I believe the numbers were W1719W, W2135W and W2283W.

Gangway adaptors on British Standard gangways were fitted to many coaches and remained on the vehicle. Most of the Hawksworth stock running in the 1960s probably had them, including those that survived into blue/grey. There was, therefore, no problem in coupling to Mark I stock.

So far as I can establish, the last withdrawals of Hawksworth passenger stock took place in 1968, including those in blue/grey. They'd been retained to accommodate catering trolleys on the Cornish leg of the journey of through trains, as they wouldn't fit through Mk1 compartment doors.

COLLETT COACHES IN DMU SETS

There were three of these, numbered in the W78xxW series. They were initially painted light DMU green but later at least one was painted dark green (with droplights 'borrowed' from a maroon vehicle!) although it still ran in a light green DMU formation!

They were used to expand the Gloucester 3-car Cross-Country sets (Class 119) used on the fast Paddington-Oxford service to four cars and they provided compartment accommodation which wasn't normal in DMUs.

I seem to recall posting a colour picture on the old RMweb site.
CHRIS LEIGH

W7804W, W7813W and W7254W were the three. They were converted in 1961 and painted dark green. W7804W appeared at Paddington on the first day of the winter 1961-62 timetable marshalled in a Bristol-based Gloucester RW&C Co. (Class 119) Cross-Country set in, of course, almost-but-not-quite-malachite green. The working was 8.15 am Frome - Paddington, 1.18 pm Paddington - Oxford, 3.45 pm Oxford - Paddington and 6.5 pm Paddington - Westbury.

They were converted in 1961 and painted dark green.

At least one was 'light green' - the early DMU green - to match the Gloucester Cross-Country sets, although I also remember seeing a photo. of one in the later 'dark' DMU green, presumably intended to match a repainted DMU in 'dark green' with yellow warning panel. Unfortunately, it appeared in a light green set! It shows up very well in some of Mike Mensing's black & white photos.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on October 02, 2018, 11:55:56 AM
To bump this thread rather than start a new one, I have this morning taken delivery of some Farish maroon Hawksworths. They are extremely good looking and free running, plus I do prefer the plastic foldover inserts with the tab they are packed in the boxes with.......

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/264-021018114341-69640951.jpeg)

The 374-586 Full Brake
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/264-021018114338-696401470.jpeg)

The 374-562 Composite Corridor
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/264-021018114231-69639265.jpeg)

The 374-537 2nd Corridor
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/264-021018114218-69634770.jpeg)

The 374-512 3rd Corridor Brake (I got a couple of these)
(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/264-021018114217-69634605.jpeg)

The close coupling is wonderful as there seems to be only about 2mm between coaches on straight track. My minimum radius is about 10" and no issues with buffer locking.
Detailing pieces like corridor end panels and pipes etc are taped to the plastic insert.
I rate them as 9/10
Sorry about any shadows in the pics (I did tell Hank Marvin to clear off) but it's a miserable dark wet day oop here so I've had to use artificial light)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Hailstone on October 04, 2018, 07:08:35 PM
I got mine yesterday, but it will be a few days before I get to try them out, but they look exquisite

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 04, 2018, 10:01:09 PM
I ordered my 4 (one of each) on Monday, Alex, so it won't be until next week, at the earliest that I'll have them and be able to photograph them at Cant Cove.

Thanks for the very positive review and photos., Nobby. Looks like they'll be well worth waiting for. I really need to buy some medium length couplings for my other coaches to reduce coupling distances between coaches.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on October 05, 2018, 08:15:24 AM
I'm considering buying another full brake for use in a dedicated parcels rake as it's ideal for that :hmmm:
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 05, 2018, 06:09:21 PM
I'm considering buying another full brake for use in a dedicated parcels rake as it's ideal for that :hmmm:

Do you already have a Hawksworth BG in Crimson & Cream livery for your parcel train, Nobby?
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on October 05, 2018, 09:22:30 PM
I'm considering buying another full brake for use in a dedicated parcels rake as it's ideal for that :hmmm:

Do you already have a Hawksworth BG in Crimson & Cream livery for your parcel train, Nobby?

Not at present, Chris, but it's the Wigan Show this weekend :D ;)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 05, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
I'm considering buying another full brake for use in a dedicated parcels rake as it's ideal for that :hmmm:

Do you already have a Hawksworth BG in Crimson & Cream livery for your parcel train, Nobby?

Not at present, Chris, but it's the Wigan Show this weekend :D ;)

I asked because Hattons has the last few at reduced price: 374-585 Graham Farish Hawksworth Full Brake BR Crimson & Cream, 22 BARGAIN List price: 30.95. More than 10 in stock. Martin and I both have one and they look very nice indeed.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on October 05, 2018, 10:14:06 PM
I'm considering buying another full brake for use in a dedicated parcels rake as it's ideal for that :hmmm:

Do you already have a Hawksworth BG in Crimson & Cream livery for your parcel train, Nobby?

Not at present, Chris, but it's the Wigan Show this weekend :D ;)

I asked because Hattons has the last few at reduced price: 374-585 Graham Farish Hawksworth Full Brake BR Crimson & Cream, 22 BARGAIN List price: 30.95. More than 10 in stock. Martin and I both have one and they look very nice indeed.

Yup - I saw that but will see if anyone has one around the 26 mark at the show (i.e. 22 + postage). If not, Hattons will get the call.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Hailstone on October 09, 2018, 12:19:38 AM
I got mine while on holiday in Cornwall from Kernow model rail

(http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/1193-091018000439.jpeg)

D1015 Western Champion was waiting for me when I returned  :bounce:

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: crepello on October 09, 2018, 11:00:50 AM
I got mine while on holiday in Cornwall from Kernow model rail

([url]http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/69/1193-091018000439.jpeg[/url])

D1015 Western Champion was waiting for me when I returned  :bounce:

Regards,

Alex


Hi Hailstone,
Nice pic. Is 'Chaampion' a special from Kernow?
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 09, 2018, 05:21:22 PM
Many thanks, Alex, for a very nice photo. My four arrived, today. I can take a photo. of them passing through Cant Cove on a return special working to Trewoon Junction and Pentewan (for Mevagissey) but behind one of my NB Type 2's, D6319.

I'm also intrigued by your very attractive model of D1015 "Western Champion".
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: PennineWagons on October 09, 2018, 06:30:05 PM
My four arrived from Hatton's* last week. Lovely looking coaches, but surprisingly not very free-running. It wasn't just one rogue coach, they were all like that. I had them running round the loft behind a tender-drive Black Five and it struggled a bit to get going, although it was OK once it got some speed up. Maybe they'll ease off once they've been run a few more times. Whereas the GWR-liveried ones ran much more freely right from the start. Anyone else had issues with this?
PW

*Other suppliers of expensive Chinese toys are available.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Hailstone on October 09, 2018, 07:06:22 PM
Western Champion was an ebay purchase, no one else bid for it - mind you it is a Graham Farish one

Regards,

Alex
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: johnlambert on October 10, 2018, 08:55:07 AM
My four arrived from Hatton's* last week. Lovely looking coaches, but surprisingly not very free-running. It wasn't just one rogue coach, they were all like that. I had them running round the loft behind a tender-drive Black Five and it struggled a bit to get going, although it was OK once it got some speed up. Maybe they'll ease off once they've been run a few more times. Whereas the GWR-liveried ones ran much more freely right from the start. Anyone else had issues with this?
PW

*Other suppliers of expensive Chinese toys are available.


One of my Maroon Hawskworth coaches had a tight wheelset; I identified the offending axle, ensured it was seated correctly in the bearings and gave the bogie frame a bit of a squeeze across the axle boxes.  This has resulted in a much more free-rolling coach.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 10, 2018, 07:38:07 PM
Two photos. of my four Maroon Hawskworth coaches (in the same formation) passing through Cant Cove on a return special working to Trewoon Junction and Pentewan (for Mevagissey) but behind one of my NB Type 2's, D6319.

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/2018-10-10%2010.55.24_zpsp26dgowm.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/2018-10-10%2010.55.24_zpsp26dgowm.jpg.html)

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/2018-10-10%2010.54.00_zpstbhlnn8i.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/2018-10-10%2010.54.00_zpstbhlnn8i.jpg.html)

And close-ups of each one:

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/2018-10-10%2010.54.42_zpsutxxargm.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/2018-10-10%2010.54.42_zpsutxxargm.jpg.html)

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/2018-10-10%2010.54.31_zpsrkfsgwxp.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/2018-10-10%2010.54.31_zpsrkfsgwxp.jpg.html)

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/2018-10-10%2010.54.22_zpsub9qpmun.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/2018-10-10%2010.54.22_zpsub9qpmun.jpg.html)

(http://i1060.photobucket.com/albums/t449/chrisinprague/2018-10-10%2010.54.13_zpsqfmya8eu.jpg) (http://s1060.photobucket.com/user/chrisinprague/media/2018-10-10%2010.54.13_zpsqfmya8eu.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 10, 2018, 09:01:07 PM
Western Champion was an ebay purchase, no one else bid for it - mind you it is a Graham Farish one

Regards,

Alex

Thanks, Alex. I had wondered whether it was a Graham Farish "Western" (the first DCC-fitted loco. I bought was a GF BR Maroon D1023). Yours does look very good. I don't think Dapol has ever made a model of D1015 in this livery?
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Hailstone on October 10, 2018, 10:12:09 PM
According to the seller, it is a pro respray Chris, I am not so sure as the Crest at each end is the wrong one, but it looks good enough for the moment. I may get proper crests for it later, but there are plenty other things in my to do list at the moment.

Regards

Alex
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on October 11, 2018, 05:24:26 PM
According to the seller, it is a pro respray, Chris, I am not so sure as the Crest at each end is the wrong one, but it looks good enough for the moment. I may get proper crests for it later, but there are plenty other things in my to-do list at the moment.

Regards

Alex

Thanks, Alex. It looks very good in the photo. I think 2mm scale BR coaching crests are available as transfers?

Regards,
Chris
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Bob G on April 26, 2019, 11:50:50 AM
Can anyone tell me how long the Hawksworth coaches ran in BR maroon before they were withdrawn, please?
I may get a rake alongside my Collett maroon rake.
Indeed, were they ever mixed up?

Bob
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: longbow on April 26, 2019, 12:11:09 PM
A few Hawksworths apparently made it into Blue and Grey but most were withdrawn by the mid-60s, sometime after the older Colletts I imagine. Outside crack express formations the WR mixed and matched coaching stock eras freely, but note that Dapol and Farish maroon shades differ slightly and the Dapols do look rather dated next to the much newer Farish models.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Karhedron on April 26, 2019, 12:11:41 PM
A few Hawksworth coaches survived long enough to receive blue/grey livery IIRC. They were mostly withdrawn in the late 60s but a few of the more specialised ones such as Sleepers and full brakes survived into the 70s.

Colletts and Hawksworths were mixed widely. This is especially true when they were in Maroon livery as the Hawksworths had been displaced from frontline service by that point by the arrival of Mk1 coaches. Rakes were made up to fit the operating requirements with little concern about matching vintages.
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Chris in Prague on April 26, 2019, 12:21:50 PM
Ex-GWR stock lasted into the late 60s and a very few select Hawksworth SKs did get BR Blue and Grey livery, not just the sleepers and BGs (which were BR Blue only, I believe). There is a picture of three Hawksworth SKs in BR Blue and Grey livery in a "Warship" hauled train in 1968/69 in 'Profile of the Warships'.

In Hugh Dady's book 'Heyday of the Warships' (IA), on p. 49, there is a photo of the up 'CRE' on 29 May 1967 with a blue & grey Hawksworth SK as the leading coach behind two Green 'Warships'.

The only photo I know of that shows the three blue/grey Hawksworth coaches (all SKs*) is \\88 Plate 32 in "Profile of the Warships"//. They are in a train entering Exeter St Davids from the West behind D806 "Cambrian". The date given is 17 August 1968. There are photos of individual blue/grey Hawksworths, including colour ones, behind D1000 "Westerns", D800 "Warships" and D600 "Warships". Around 1967, one appears to have been the regular Plymouth-Penzance coach added to the front of the 'Cornish Riviera', and running as the leading vehicle in both directions west of Plymouth.

*W1719W, W2135W and W2283W were the only three Hawksworth SK coaches to survive to carry the 1965 BR Blue and Grey livery. They'd been retained to accommodate catering trolleys on the Cornish leg of the journey of through trains, as they wouldn't fit through Mk1 compartment doors.

Gangway adaptors on British Standard gangways were fitted to many coaches and remained on the vehicle. Most of the Hawksworth stock running in the 1960s probably had them, including those that survived into blue/grey. There was, therefore, no problem in coupling to Mark I stock.

So far as I can establish, the last withdrawals of Hawksworth passenger stock took place in 1968, including the three SKs in blue/grey.

The longest lasting normal service Hawkesworth's were the BGs, many of which ended up in blue and lasted until the late 1970s.

There was also the former BR Western Region Dynamometer Car, DW150192, converted from a Corridor Second (Third) in 1961 and outshopped in WR Chocolate & Cream livery; that ended up in the BR Research Department blue/red livery (Test Coach 4). Test Car 4 was built at Swindon in 1947 as a third class corridor carriage to a design by F W Hawksworth, on lot number 1691, this vehicle originally carried the number W796W.

I wonder if any retailer will order a limited run of BR Blue & Grey Hawksworth SKs? Even better would be DW150192 in WR Chocolate & Cream and BR Research Department blue/red livery (Test Coach 4).
Title: Re: Hawksworth coaches
Post by: Newportnobby on April 26, 2019, 12:31:59 PM
All interesting stuff, especially as I have maroon Hawksworths and maroon Colletts to play with on cross country services from Oxford :hmmm:

They'd been retained to accommodate catering trolleys on the Cornish leg of the journey of through trains, as they wouldn't fit through Mk1 compartment doors.


Damn those broad gauge trolleys :D
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