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Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => GraFar Diesel/Electric => Topic started by: Tank on January 22, 2011, 08:21:41 PM

Title: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Tank on January 22, 2011, 08:21:41 PM
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Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: tadpole on February 01, 2011, 08:55:33 PM
Have several of these in various liveries, and generally find the 8wd versions better than the 4wd versions.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Claude Dreyfus on February 01, 2011, 11:04:16 PM
I may have been unlucky, or it was just the motor had some design glitch, but the Farish class 101 was consistently my most unreliably performer. It the peak of my UK collection I had six of these, and they were all indifferent runners...and that included both the full motor chassis and motor bogied examples.

When introduced they weren't bad...but the basic detailing and huge gap between the carriages quickly made them look antiquated. Some were subject to all manner of tinkerings to improve them, but ultimately they weren't great. That said, they must have been one of Farish's biggest sellers as for years they were the only r-t-r UK outline DMU. Also the 101 was quite a sensible choice, being one of the most wide-spread classes of unit on the network.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: tadpole on February 02, 2011, 05:56:35 PM
agreed - when I said "better", I should have said "less bad".
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on May 27, 2011, 09:01:21 AM
I may have been unlucky, or it was just the motor had some design glitch, but the Farish class 101 was consistently my most unreliably performer. It the peak of my UK collection I had six of these, and they were all indifferent runners...and that included both the full motor chassis and motor bogied examples.

The motor bogie examples have 2 issues:

1. brass gearing - you need to replace the small 12 tooth worm idler gear otherwise it will wear the worm badly.
2. only 4 wheel pickup - if you fit additional pickups to the front bogie the performance will be transformed.

The full chassis ones are badly prone to split gears - there is an additional gearing stage within the chassis block that also splits, unlike other Farish models - so even if you change out the bogie gears you can get poor performance if the block gears are not also changed. The ones on the armature split most often - I've seen very few examples where this hasn't happened.

Once sorted the chassis actually run well - they are noisy, it's just inherent with them, but with the extra gearing stage their slow speed performance can be better than many modern models.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: NTrain on May 27, 2011, 09:05:37 AM
Now I never knew about the step gear............

You learn something new all the time.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on May 27, 2011, 09:10:27 AM
Now I never knew about the step gear............

It's the sole reason they are noisy as there are gears at either end of the armature, which seem to amplify any intrinsic motor noise. The advantage is the additional crawl performance.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: oreamnos on June 16, 2011, 06:03:19 PM
I have examples in Blue, Blue-Grey, Green, and Strathclyde livery.  All of them are 8-wheel drive and date from the 1990s.  I have had to replace split axel or armature gears on a couple of them, but have never minded doing this.

I actually like these models quite a lot.  The detail is basic, but then there isn't much to break off!  Mine run really well even if they are noisy, though one of my four actually is fairly quiet.

My only gripes are 1.) the glazing on my blue set are separate parts which snap into the bodies and this looks a little clunky.  My other three all have clear plastic bodies which are painted to give an effective flush glazing effect.  (Does anyone know if Poole did blue sets with the clear plastic bodies, or were all the blue sets done with the snap in glazing?)  2.) The lack of close-coupling.  3.) The coupling housing of the rear bogie of the powered car tends to rest against the bottom of the body, which prevents the bogie from rocking up and down over uneven track.

But in general, I really like the old 101s.

Matt
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on June 16, 2011, 06:14:29 PM
Does anyone know if Poole did blue sets with the clear plastic bodies, or were all the blue sets done with the snap in glazing?

I think the blue ones were all the earlier style window insert bodies. Certainly the Green, blue/grey, regional and strathclydes came as one piece shells.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: EtchedPixels on June 16, 2011, 06:57:36 PM
I prefer the motor bogie version, but I fitted them with extra pickups - gets you interiors in both cars and you dont' need a sound chip 8)
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on June 17, 2011, 12:38:58 AM
I prefer the motor bogie version, but I fitted them with extra pickups - gets you interiors in both cars and you dont' need a sound chip 8)


They can actually run very quietly if the brass idlers are swapped (actually a bonus - the real reason for changing the idler is to stop it wearing through the worm :) ).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Newportnobby on June 17, 2011, 11:53:24 AM
My Farish 101 growls like a good un, but if memory serves, so did the full scale one! It runs OK fast or slow but the non-powered coach wobbles a bit. What I want to know is - who smashed the cab windows or left them down for the rain to get in???
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: dottney on November 03, 2011, 09:04:38 PM
Kinda late joining this thread but I have two of the 3 car class 101 DMU sets.  One in BR Green and one in BR Blue.  Unfortunately they both have the GF plague- split gears.  I just received a Tomix TM13 powered chassis today from Plazajapan (ebay seller) and have been able to fit the chassis under the green body 101.  While the wheels are a bit smaller and the side frames of the bogies are incorrect I'm still happy to see the 3 car train motor its way around my layout.  I have to pick up a DCC decoder for it, hopefully at a major train show this coming weekend. 

As with my HST125 and Class47 diesels (both using Atlas mechanisms) I'm not all that concerned with appearance of the sideframes, I doubt 1 in 100 modelers here in the US would see the difference.  Heck I may just cannibalize the side frames from the GF bogies and glue them to the Tomix bogies as I've already taken the front buffer beam off the GF frame for the new mechanism.

All in all this chassis worked out to be about the same cost as replacing the axle sets from the UK vendor with GF parts and I've got a very smooth, quiet and modern mechanism.  It will also be a bit easier to put a decoder in this mechanism.
A quick question from a novice British prototype modeler, when did BR run the green stuff and when did they run they blue the stuff?  I'm still trying to under the historical organization of your railways.
Dave
(upstate NY, no where near NY city)
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Newportnobby on November 03, 2011, 09:16:31 PM
Hey Dave - great idea for a repair. Well done and good result :thumbsup:
I'm not sure about the exact changeover to BR blue (think it was about 1967/8) but I'm sure someone on the forum can place it for you.

Edit - founfd the link I was looking for
http://www.railblue.com/
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: captainelectra on November 03, 2011, 09:22:51 PM
Now Farish have delivered the new all-singing, all dancing 101, now is a good time to plug the N-Train / Electra conversions for the old 101.

Bob Davies has done some lovely 3d printed ends for the BRCW Class 104 or Cravens 105 which, with a little modelling and some ERG vinyls, make up into a nice little DMU. Give the old chugger a new lease of life!
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: BernardTPM on November 03, 2011, 11:17:28 PM
I'm not sure about the exact changeover to BR blue (think it was about 1967/8) but I'm sure someone on the forum can place it for you.
Blue from 1965, with full yellow ends from 1967.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: bees on December 26, 2011, 01:48:33 PM
I have three of the 101's -

2 with the full 8wd chassis and they have split gears, and I now know, thanks to this thread, that I need to check every gear!!!

The other, 4wd motor bogie, is an excellent runner and has actually been taken from the 101 and used in my 123 kit, happy days!!! :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Les1952 on August 20, 2012, 08:59:27 AM
My class 101 is a four-car set, made by swapping ends over and getting a power underframe from a scrapper to make the second "power" car.

Still a bit rough, but as the brake is in the right place it looks OK from a distance.

Shame they're not making a 4-car set of the new one ("ever" to quote Colin A when I asked him).  Upgrading my 4-car is going to involve making a 4-car and a power twin from two three-car sets - expensive and delicate.

All the very best
Les
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: greenlaneman on August 20, 2012, 09:52:40 PM
Just bought my first - second hand - 8133 green eight wheel drive, which, with a bit of tinkering, now runs reasonably but is it supposed to be this slow? I know it has a geared down drive but!!!
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: EtchedPixels on August 20, 2012, 10:23:44 PM
Just bought my first - second hand - 8133 green eight wheel drive, which, with a bit of tinkering, now runs reasonably but is it supposed to be this slow? I know it has a geared down drive but!!!

They are noisy and their top speed is relatively slow (although it should be somewhat over the real scale top speed). If it's very sluggish then check the motor isn't really hot after running it for a bit. If it is suspect bearings or lubrication problems.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: siriushardware on December 09, 2013, 12:36:00 AM
Hi all - my first post here, and bumping an old discussion to add to it, as the subject at hand is the same, so trying to keep it all in one place.

After decades away from railway modelling, I have decided to revive my interest in a minor way and my first purchase has been a second hand Farish (Poole) BR Green 101 DMU, with a single motor bogie (which has brass gears) in the power car.

After a few hours of running in, I find that I can take it down from a higher speed  to a very slow speed before it stops, but sometimes when I wind the power slowly up from zero to full (12V) it lurches forward a millimetre and then sticks - if I put an ammeter in series with it under these conditions I can see it is drawing 200mA or so, so the problem is not loss of power or open circuit - more likely the gearbox jamming.

Looking at the brass gears, they look pretty worn and there is quite a lot of free play not only between them but side to side. Is it still possible to obtain replacement gears? (I'm aware of the existence of BR lines in Guisborough, and as it happens I spend my weekends in that area, but I would like to get an idea of whether repair / servicing is even feasible before I bother them).
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on December 09, 2013, 09:06:25 AM
Looking at the brass gears, they look pretty worn and there is quite is a lot of free play not only between them but side to side. Is it still possible to obtain replacement gears? (I'm aware of the existence of BR lines in Guisborough, and as it happens I spend my weekends in that area, but I would like to get an idea of whether repair / servicing is even feasible before I bother them).

The gears are meant to be like that. They tend to appear loose, but as long as they are meshing and held in place with the bogie frame it's fine. The ones on the base of the bogie are very unlikely to be worn - it's most likely that the worm may be wearing, and the main reason it's sticky is almost certainly that it just needs a good overhaul, clean etc. Bear in mind Farish stopped making the motor bogies with brass gears in around 1983/4, meaning they are now 30 years old.

So some TLC in the form of a basic overhaul will probably be very welcome!!

The only thing that can wear is the brass worm - this can be changed out easily (although it's attached to the armature, you don't need to replace the full armature) - the single 12 tooth gear it meshes with can be changed for a plastic one so this won't happen again.

HTH,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: oreamnos on December 09, 2013, 05:14:25 PM
I know you said it had brass gears in the bogie, but while I know it is hard to believe I have actually had a Poole Farish brass axle gear split on me just like the plastic ones are prone to do.  I do wish I could find what I did with it because I'd post a picture.  I've also had the brass gears on another bogie (from a Class 25?  This was some time ago.) bind up a bit in the same place at each rotation of the wheels.   Even after much careful study I could never see anything visibly wrong, though.  After I replaced the geared axles with plastic geared ones all was fine.

Given the age of this model Alan is correct that it most likely needs a thorough cleaning.  Doing that is most definitely feasible.  While you have it apart, you might wish to replace the gears.  BR lines do sell them, part number B7101-2, 11.40 for a set of four.

Matt
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: siriushardware on December 09, 2013, 10:07:01 PM
Thanks for the replies.

Alan, I realise I'm listening to the voice of experience but I really am sure the axle / between axle gears are worn, as the teeth on each are noticeably indented where they have been rubbing / wearing against their neighbours. I'll try to upload a photo in due course. There appears to have been some recent attempt at maintenance because the gears are thinly coated with a very light grease, which looks quite fresh.

Incidentally, this is the five pole motor version, at least according to the sticker on the box. Another sticker identifies it as model #8143. The middle car and dummy power car are free-running, they set off at a gallop on the slightest of inclines.

It's news to me that this is such an old model (not nineties, but earlier, evidently) but I suppose that if the gears had not been brass they would all be in a sorrier state by now- it's alarming to hear that even the brass ones can split as well, though.

First step would obviously seem to be an inspection - excuse my ignorance, but how do I release the motor bogie from the power car? (I don't want to try to prise apart anything which isn't supposed to be separated).
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on December 09, 2013, 11:00:59 PM
Alan, I realise I'm listening to the voice of experience but I really am sure the axle / between axle gears are worn, as the teeth on each are noticeably indented where they have been rubbing / wearing against their neighbours. I'll try to upload a photo in due course. There appears to have been some recent attempt at maintenance because the gears are thinly coated with a very light grease, which looks quite fresh.

Incidentally, this is the five pole motor version, at least according to the sticker on the box. Another sticker identifies it as model #8143. The middle car and dummy power car are free-running, they set off at a gallop on the slightest of inclines.

It's news to me that this is such an old model (not nineties, but earlier, evidently) but I suppose that if the gears had not been brass they would all be in a sorrier state by now- it's alarming to hear that even the brass ones can split as well, though.

It's definitely not a 5 pole unit unless it's been meddled with in the past. The 5 pole armatures only came in with the later nylon gears in 1983/4. So either your unit has had the armature changed (indicative of previous problems) or is in the box from a later model.

The gears may look worn but I'm pretty sure you'll find them to be ok. The Worm may not be, but you won't be able to see that without removing the motor bogie. It's likely that years of crud and previous lubricant will be making the gears look worse than they really are - nowadays I remove the geared part of the bogie and scrub it down in warm water to remove all this and bring the gears back to being clean. This usually frees them up and reveals nice shiny gears, as good as new. It's certainly not worth contemplating changing them until you've done this kind of altogether more basic maintenance.

Plastic gears would be in a fine state unless mishandled in some way - the white nylon and later black gears simply don't wear in this way when meshed with other plastic gears. They can, though mishandling wear at the worm, but are otherwise pretty hardy (newer Bachmann Farish do have problems there though).

HTH,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: siriushardware on December 10, 2013, 12:54:41 AM
It's definitely not a 5 pole unit unless it's been meddled with in the past. The 5 pole armatures only came in with the later nylon gears in 1983/4. So either your unit has had the armature changed (indicative of previous problems) or is in the box from a later model.

Since the stickers on the box look original, I would say that I have an early 3-pole model in a later box. To be fair, the original owner did not make any specific claim about the age of the model, and he did say it was the single-bogie motor version. The only other statement he made was that it ran, which it does, generally not too badly.

The gears may look worn but I'm pretty sure you'll find them to be ok. The Worm may not be, but you won't be able to see that without removing the motor bogie.

How do I go about doing that? The last DMU I took apart was a Hornby '00' one of approx. 1960s vintage, some time in the 1960s. The roof could be unclipped and then the top securing / pivot screw for the motor bogie was revealed. I haven't noticed anything so obvious on this model yet.

Plastic gears would be in a fine state unless mishandled in some way -  (newer Bachmann Farish do have problems there though).

That's quite amusing, in the sense that I only ended up buying this particular model because I found that I could no longer buy the 2010-2013 version Farish Green 101 DMU new - it appears to have sold out completely and it doesn't look like there are any more coming. Did I have a narrow escape after all?
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: NinOz on December 10, 2013, 05:58:29 AM
It's definitely not a 5 pole unit unless it's been meddled with in the past. The 5 pole armatures only came in with the later nylon gears in 1983/4. So either your unit has had the armature changed (indicative of previous problems) or is in the box from a later model.
HTH,
Alan
Does that apply only to the 101; I have in front of me a Grafar class 25 with brass gears and a 5 pole motor.
It has never been meddled with.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: ParkeNd on December 10, 2013, 08:45:06 AM
This is quite a scary thread. Virtually all bad news.

Are these problems going to beset the new green 108 (assuming only the body is different from a 101) that I have on quite expensive pre-order at Hattons. I mean poor speed control, growling motor, and splitting  gears even on new models ?

Wrong rivet profiles and oversize buffers I can live with but the listed problems with 101s would really put me off
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on December 10, 2013, 09:09:12 AM
Are these problems going to beset the new green 108 (assuming only the body is different from a 101)

No. The 101 we are discussing here is the old tool model. The new 108 and 101 have completely different mechanisms.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on December 10, 2013, 09:14:08 AM
How do I go about doing that? The last DMU I took apart was a Hornby '00' one of approx. 1960s vintage, some time in the 1960s. The roof could be unclipped and then the top securing / pivot screw for the motor bogie was revealed. I haven't noticed anything so obvious on this model yet.

The motor bogie will either be screwed to a little swivelling bracket under the vehicle roof, or be connected via a 'U' shaped frame that simply clips into the sides of the underframe. The latter can be got out by carefully edging it out with a screwdriver.

That's quite amusing, in the sense that I only ended up buying this particular model because I found that I could no longer buy the 2010-2013 version Farish Green 101 DMU new - it appears to have sold out completely and it doesn't look like there are any more coming. Did I have a narrow escape after all?

The new tool models are way better than the older ones. There are isolated cases of the top drive gear wearing, but largely they are very smooth quiet and reliable.

However, the old tool models can be made to run well with care, particularly the motor bogie version you have.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on December 10, 2013, 09:18:21 AM
Does that apply only to the 101; I have in front of me a Grafar class 25 with brass gears and a 5 pole motor.
It has never been meddled with.

Applies to all I believe - the 5 pole armature did not come in until 83/84 with the white nylon gears. These were only used for a couple of years and then the same armature was used with black plastic gears until the early 90s when it was retooled to a similar 5 pole unit, but with balanced windings and a silver commutator.

Either your model is being mis-identified (the 5 pole unit has 5 coils on the armature, the 3 poles look very similar at a glance but have 3 coils), or it's been changed at some stage. Or it;s a very rare oddity  :o but I think that's unlikely.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: NinOz on December 10, 2013, 11:39:25 AM
Applies to all I believe - the 5 pole armature did not come in until 83/84 with the white nylon gears. These were only used for a couple of years and then the same armature was used with black plastic gears until the early 90s when it was retooled to a similar 5 pole unit, but with balanced windings and a silver commutator.

Either your model is being mis-identified (the 5 pole unit has 5 coils on the armature, the 3 poles look very similar at a glance but have 3 coils), or it's been changed at some stage. Or it;s a very rare oddity  :o but I think that's unlikely.

Cheers,
Alan
Has 5 poles, brass gears, bought it new from Hattons way back, Grafar stamped, never been altered to my knowledge, little run.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: siriushardware on December 10, 2013, 06:58:12 PM
Thanks for the info about how to get into the unit - turns out that this one is the type with the motor bogie suspended from an inverted 'U' bracket which clips into small holes in the sides of the lower frame of the 101 motor car - I don't think I would have worked that out.

On first inspection there are some things I notice immediately -

-3 pole (not five pole) motor. The commutator looks quite dirty.

-One side of the aforementioned bracket is flecked with brass powder / filings, presumably from the brass worm on the end of the armature.

-The insides of the body frames are wet with brass-coloured paste - I presume grease previously located on the worm was flung off it onto the frames, and then the worm was run dry for a while, causing brass filings to follow and embed themselves in the grease. Despite all that, the worm does not look too bad.

I'll take some photos before I do anything with it and I'll upload them (if I can master the system for doing that on this forum).
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: oreamnos on December 10, 2013, 07:11:21 PM
This is a fascinating thread.  I'm particularly intrigued by the 5 pole, brass geared 25.  If it was meddled with (and I'm not saying it was) I wonder if brass geared bogies were swapped into a 5 pole chassis, or if a 5 pole armature was swapped into a 3 pole chassis with brass geared bogies.  My money would be on the former - it's a much easier job than changing the armature (one screw to unscrew instead of several) and would have been a quick fix for a loco that had split gears.  I seem to remember swapping a spare 5 pole armature into a chassis (I don't remember what loco, might even have been a steamer) that originally was 3 pole and having to deal with clearance issues because the diameter of the 5 pole is slightly greater than the 3 pole armature.  But my memory is not what it used to be.

Matt

Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: NinOz on December 10, 2013, 07:42:24 PM

"One side of the aforementioned bracket is flecked with brass powder / filings, presumably from the brass worm on the end of the armature.

-The insides of the body frames are wet with brass-coloured paste - I presume grease previously located on the worm was flung off it onto the frames, and then the worm was run dry for a while, causing brass filings to follow and embed themselves in the grease. Despite all that, the worm does not look too bad."

I had two merchant navy chassis from this period just slowly grind the worms and gears away despite lubing frequently so be alert.  Strangely none of the other brass gears have gone this route.

This is a fascinating thread.  I'm particularly intrigued by the 5 pole, brass geared 25.  If it was meddled with (and I'm not saying it was) I wonder if brass geared bogies were swapped into a 5 pole chassis, or if a 5 pole armature was swapped into a 3 pole chassis with brass geared bogies.  My money would be on the former - it's a much easier job than changing the armature (one screw to unscrew instead of several) and would have been a quick fix for a loco that had split gears.  I seem to remember swapping a spare 5 pole armature into a chassis (I don't remember what loco, might even have been a steamer) that originally was 3 pole and having to deal with clearance issues because the diameter of the 5 pole is slightly greater than the 3 pole armature.  But my memory is not what it used to be.

Matt
The 25 was released in 1983. This was the transition period for brass to plastic gears and for 3 to 5 pole.  They were not at the same time and the 25 is an example of the transition.  I have a Class 50 and 55 which were released in 1984 these are 5 pole and have white plastic gears.
I have been running Farish from 1973 so I have a collection which spans the years.
Amazed that you guys can't accept a simple fact. :hmmm:
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: oreamnos on December 10, 2013, 09:22:52 PM
I never said I didn't accept it.  I am just intrigued because I've never heard of one of these mix-and-match examples before.  It seems like Poole was doing its own "meddling" with what was left in its parts bin during this transitional period.

Matt
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: EtchedPixels on December 10, 2013, 11:25:26 PM
Some of the brass gear motor bogies definitely had problems with wearing gears if the motor worm and gears in the motor bogie were all brass, and that was confirmed by Farish. Fix is plastic for the gear the worm drives.

It doesn't seem to be a problem with the other all brass setups hoewever - or at least not so much.

Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: colpatben on July 19, 2014, 12:56:05 PM
Hi all
Just got an old 101 (Farish 8143) with the motor in the frame, driving the two bogies through a worm at each end. It Runs well and has good slow speed in both directions, although it 'Growls' it doesn't click (indicative of split gears).

Mucky with grease in the gears and need to be dissembled for cleaning and thorough inspection.
Do I need to remove the bogies first to get to the screws that hold the longitudinal drive shaft and motor, and if so how?

Many thanks
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: JonathanC on July 23, 2014, 05:51:22 AM
I've got one with split gears. It has never worked from day one. I have obtained replacement gears from BR Lines, but there is one I can't supply. If anyone has other suggestions on where to source them from, please let me know.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Bealman on July 23, 2014, 05:54:13 AM
Mate, I have THREE sets of green ones, all with split gears. Very common fault.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: PaulCheffus on July 23, 2014, 09:03:57 AM
I've got one with split gears. It has never worked from day one. I have obtained replacement gears from BR Lines, but there is one I can't supply. If anyone has other suggestions on where to source them from, please let me know.


Hi

Which gear is it as the N Gauge Society also supply some of the gears.

http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=ngs-shop-ngs-3-14 (http://www.ngaugesociety.com/index.php?page=ngs-shop-ngs-3-14)

SSP011 FARISH 12 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) 6.50
SSP012 FARISH 16 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) 6.50
SSP013 25 TOOTH REPLACEMENT GEARS 3.25

Cheers

Paul
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on July 23, 2014, 09:04:28 AM
I've got one with split gears. It has never worked from day one. I have obtained replacement gears from BR Lines, but there is one I can't supply. If anyone has other suggestions on where to source them from, please let me know.

Apparently Martin Richter of Lytchett Manor Models is doing a new run of his own tooling of gears, including the elusive 16 and 25 tooth type 2 (as used internally in the chassis block of the 101).

Not sure when they'll come on stream.

You may also beable to source from the NGS (their gears are also Martin's), but when I enquired they frustratingly would not split sets into individual types of gear, instead you'd have to buy a set consisting of every type Farish made.  :doh:

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on July 23, 2014, 09:06:38 AM
SSP011 FARISH 12 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) 6.50
SSP012 FARISH 16 TOOTH GEARS X 10 (S00126546) 6.50
SSP013 25 TOOTH REPLACEMENT GEARS 3.25

It'll almost certainly be those on the armature and driveshafts which are 16 and 25 tooth, BUT are of a different type and therefore the ones above won't fit (the type you need, called 'type 2' by Bob at BR Lines is long out of stock and has a smaller diameter central hole).

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: JonathanC on July 23, 2014, 09:41:24 AM
Thanks for the replies. It's what Alan said, the gear with the smaller diameter hole. I will check out the NGS -  I am in the process of joining.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: DesertHound on February 03, 2015, 09:26:03 AM
Thanks for the replies. It's what Alan said, the gear with the smaller diameter hole. I will check out the NGS -  I am in the process of joining.


I'm a bit late to this discussion but was just reading through it for some information.

Jonathan, you might wish to read through my thread here on a fix for the split gear problem with the DMU's.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25303.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=25303.0)

It might not be to everyone's liking, but it worked well for me on the first occasion. Admittedly I did repair a second one (from memory I installed a new armature) and this one is drawing 110mA in one direction and 150mA in the other. Therefore I need to investigate and see if the issue lies with my alignment of the intermediate gears. Not a shocking reading, but I would expect equal(ish) readings from both directions.

Feel free to PM me or ask on here if you need further help with this. As you say, there are no press-fit gears available, so it's a case of working out another method for repair.

Best

Daniel
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Cyberman on March 15, 2020, 03:13:32 PM
I have a Farish 101 with 3 pole motor bogie & all brass gears, it has always been a terrible runner, hardly used because of this & put away when the brass worm gear stripped & wouldn't engage with the idler gear below it.
I took the plunge & ordered a new 5 pole type 1 armature,replacement armature bushes, a set of springs & brushes & a pack of 16 & 12 tooth gears, the transformation is amazing, the motor bogie is so smooth & quiet running.
I'd like to add additional pickups to the front bogie, has anyone done this ?- any tips appreciated.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: tunneroner61 on March 15, 2020, 04:21:30 PM
Yes I've done it to my three. If I remember correctly

1) copper clad stuck under unpowered bogie
2) Wipers made up from phosphor bronze strip soldered to copper clad
3) bare wire glued to underside of chassis for each 'rail'
4) using very fine wire from a telephone wire (the coiled stuff between handset and base) connections soldered between copper clad to bare wire and then bare wire direct to motor 'terminals'

Improved running no end but not the noise from the gears. I've not done the armature change like you or the change to plastic gears.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Cyberman on March 15, 2020, 05:07:21 PM
Thanks for that i'll give it a go.
Going on the transformation of my motor bogie, the difference its made by swapping the armature & gears to plastic is incredible, i'd highly recommend giving it a go.
One thing i found out is the the idler gear beneath the worm drive is supposed to spin on the brass shank, it has splines on one end to hold it into the plastic bogie housing, i carefully opened out the hole in the gear until it spun on the shaft, changing the other gears was much more straight forward.
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on March 15, 2020, 07:34:00 PM
If you still have the 3 pole armatures, let me know - they can live again in another model.

Cheers,
Alan
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Cyberman on March 15, 2020, 09:19:08 PM
Hi Alan.
I still have the original 3 pole armature ( needing a new brass worm), at present i'm going through my collection of old Farish stuff to see what runs & what needs what, i'll keep you posted on anything surplus  ;)
Title: Re: Graham Farish - Class 101's - From 1990's
Post by: Dr Al on March 15, 2020, 11:53:11 PM
Hi Alan.
I still have the original 3 pole armature ( needing a new brass worm), at present i'm going through my collection of old Farish stuff to see what runs & what needs what, i'll keep you posted on anything surplus  ;)

No problem - worms can be changed out, so these armatures should be reusable.

Cheers,
Alan
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