N Gauge Forum

Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => Coaches => Topic started by: sparky on February 25, 2014, 09:58:43 PM

Title: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: sparky on February 25, 2014, 09:58:43 PM
Hi

Has anyone pre-ordered these. I really like the look of both the blue grey and intercity liveries...problem is when will we see them as it seems to take an age for announced new items to actually appear in the flesh !!...anyone know latest estimate of timings?
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: MJKERR on February 25, 2014, 10:41:22 PM
The ScotRail Class 47/7 and their respective Mark 2F DBSO coaches have been pushed to the end of 2014
Personally, I think it is more likely to be early in 2015 (about this time next year)
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: sparky on February 25, 2014, 10:44:57 PM
Anyone would think they were coming from the other side of the world...
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: sparky on June 10, 2014, 10:04:18 PM
Has anyone any insider information on the latest timings of these coaches. There is no date specified on the Bachmann site ??
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: captainelectra on June 11, 2014, 01:21:25 PM
Not seen any pictures of test shots on the Bachmann website yet, so I would imagine that these are still some way off.

I'd be surprised if anything appears before this time next year, though they have been known to spring the odd surprise on us!
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Mike W on June 11, 2014, 01:46:38 PM
According to the latest Bachmann Collectors Club mag, they're still being drawn up, so I'd say 12 - 18 months.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: sparky on June 11, 2014, 04:04:05 PM
12 to 18 months... My layout passengers will be very upset...... no wonder there are so many of them still milling around on the station platform as I look... maybe have to organise a "special" !
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Mike W on June 11, 2014, 04:22:33 PM
The existing mk2f coaches are pretty good, in my opinion: reasonably close coupling, good paint jobs (at least the bachmann ones and Electra can overlay the older ones), decent enough underframe.

I've heard one forum member state his preference for the older Farish bodyshells due to the newer seperate glazing meaning that window edges become too pronounced in N and I can understand that view point. Horses for courses I guess!
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: oreamnos on June 11, 2014, 05:19:38 PM
The existing mk2f coaches are pretty good, in my opinion: reasonably close coupling, good paint jobs (at least the bachmann ones and Electra can overlay the older ones), decent enough underframe.

I've heard one forum member state his preference for the older Farish bodyshells due to the newer seperate glazing meaning that window edges become too pronounced in N and I can understand that view point. Horses for courses I guess!

I agree the ex-Poole ones made by Bachmann were all right and had excellent decoration.  Though I already have a proper rake I was a bit disappointed when they stopped making them.  Their biggest issue is the lack of any interiors, particularly in light of their large windows, and that they didn't weigh enough (IMHO).  The MK2f interiors from BR Lines however solve both issues.

While I'm sure there will be demand for new Mk2fs since they haven't been in the Farish catalog for a couple years now (and I'd guess they stopped making the old ones to increase that demand!), I can't see myself buying many of the new ones given how satisfactory the old ones were; if previously un-produced coach types are made I might spring for those.

Matt
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Mike W on June 11, 2014, 05:22:11 PM
Agree completely Matt.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: sparky on June 11, 2014, 06:21:09 PM
Cheers for all the thoughts on improving the old version I`ll take a look as the passengers waiting for new coaching stock are in revolt and demanding refunds on season ticket prices.... there again I am roughly 150 times bigger than they are so tough !
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: MJKERR on November 10, 2014, 06:48:07 AM
The ScotRail Class 47/7 and their respective Mark 2F DBSO coaches have been pushed to the end of 2014
Personally, I think it is more likely to be early in 2015 (about this time next year)
Now not due before June 2015
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: sparky on November 10, 2014, 10:38:37 AM
Hattons have removed prices as Bachmann are to change the rrp.....upwards I presume next year some time
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: captainelectra on November 10, 2014, 04:28:02 PM
The BR Lines interiors make all the differences to the Farish Mk2s and Electra (me) produces vinyl sides for virtually all livery variations.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: MJKERR on November 10, 2014, 08:04:16 PM
The BR Lines interiors make all the differences to the Farish Mk2s and Electra (me) produces vinyl sides for virtually all livery variations.
This new Bachfar Mark 2F corrects previously released versions, with a new underframe and correctly depicts this version of the Mark 2
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: 1977joey on October 23, 2018, 01:46:18 AM
I wonder when we are going to see these coaches as they are still 'TBA' in The planned Farish release schedule from October 2018 - September 2019.

Quite worrying with the last considerable price rise since they were originally announced...

The OO gauge one's are out but no sign of the N gauge one's for the foreseeable future...  :worried: :confused1:

Cheers,
Mark
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crepello on October 23, 2018, 01:44:13 PM
More worrying is whether they'll match up in height with the Mark 1s.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Rabbitaway on October 23, 2018, 10:46:13 PM
Lack of Mk2s are pushing up eBay bids for the old models

4 Regional Railways coaches just sold for £121  :goggleeyes:
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 06:33:02 AM
£30 each? Thatís barely above the retail price surely?
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: railsquid on October 24, 2018, 06:44:15 AM
£30 each? Thatís barely above the retail price surely?

If it's the old tooling Mk2s then that's about double what I've been paying for them.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 06:46:45 AM
I assume itís the new ones - Regional Railways wonít be 2Fs, theyíll be 2As.

Edit: found them, itís the old ones, thatís mental then!
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Rabbitaway on October 24, 2018, 10:48:25 PM
No the old tool versions
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: jamespetts on November 23, 2019, 10:54:30 PM
Decorated samples of these were at Warley to-day, but the latest indication from the Bachmann website is that they have been delayed until June 2020:

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49110891718_892964f237_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPLa7o)Farish mk. 2F (https://flic.kr/p/2hPLa7o) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49109968241_ab72945ac0_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPFqAn)Farish livery samples (https://flic.kr/p/2hPFqAn) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49110245867_e8220459d2_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPGR82)Farish livery sample (https://flic.kr/p/2hPGR82) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49110162312_53658c50fc_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPGqhq)Farish livery samples (https://flic.kr/p/2hPGqhq) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49111450366_7e01d322e3_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPP2bf)Farish livery samples (https://flic.kr/p/2hPP2bf) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49111451406_68249eae1b_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPP2ub)Farish livery samples (https://flic.kr/p/2hPP2ub) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr

(https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49111456581_8fbd587455_h.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/2hPP42p)Farish buffet (https://flic.kr/p/2hPP42p) by James Petts (https://www.flickr.com/photos/14730981@N08/), on Flickr
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Bob G on November 23, 2019, 11:12:10 PM
I'm hanging on to my China quality 2Ds with separate interiors from 2004 which were £10 each. Paired with MK 1 RBs and RMBs and they are spot on for 1974 WR rakes.
Plus the best close coupled coaches I have. without close coupling :)

Bob
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on November 24, 2019, 02:59:24 AM
Those 47s look good.a mk 2D will be welcome especially the    bso. The parcels  van l ooks like a rerun of  one that a
Appeared 6 years ago maybe
 
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: bigP on November 25, 2019, 10:26:36 AM
Decorated samples of these were at Warley to-day, but the latest indication from the Bachmann website is that they have been delayed until June 2020:



Hi,

I asked the Bachmann staff at Warley re. the omission of the Farish 2Fs on the availability list they had posted on their stand. 
Apparently the production slot went to 'something else' and there is no production slot scheduled for the 2F currently, so it's back to TBA.  Was advised very unlikely before Q4 2020.  Q4 2020 for production or release they could not specify, just best guess Q4 2020.

A bit disappointing but nothing to be done about it I guess.

Such a shame Hornby haven't downscaled their 2E, or 2F stock!

BigP
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: jamespetts on November 25, 2019, 10:45:24 AM
Decorated samples of these were at Warley to-day, but the latest indication from the Bachmann website is that they have been delayed until June 2020:



Hi,

I asked the Bachmann staff at Warley re. the omission of the Farish 2Fs on the availability list they had posted on their stand. 
Apparently the production slot went to 'something else' and there is no production slot scheduled for the 2F currently, so it's back to TBA.  Was advised very unlikely before Q4 2020.  Q4 2020 for production or release they could not specify, just best guess Q4 2020.

A bit disappointing but nothing to be done about it I guess.

Such a shame Hornby haven't downscaled their 2E, or 2F stock!

BigP

These people really cannot be trusted to give dates that are even a good faith attempt to be accurate.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Rabbitaway on December 02, 2019, 11:15:00 PM
Bachmann are just getting worse, massive delays and excessive prices, they are clearly not interested in N gauge. The competition in both N and 00 is snapping at their heels and rightly so. If we need modern coaches just turn to Dapol Mk3s at £21 a piece and widely available.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 06:21:02 AM
Would agree with the a bove ! Is there sufficient interest in the market for modellers to buy from revolution ? Could  they manufacture one ? Dearly would love a rake
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: eddief83 on December 03, 2019, 01:38:53 PM
Would agree with the a bove ! Is there sufficient interest in the market for modellers to buy from revolution ? Could  they manufacture one ? Dearly would love a rake

Which coach would Revolution do? Mk1 and Mk3 are done - so that leaves Mk2's - 2A is done and 2F is imminent, if anyone announced a Mk2F now it would take a miracle to beat Farish to the shops given theirs is done and just awaiting a slot. So you are down to 2B-E not sure how any of them would sell after the Mk2A and 2F are out
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 01:43:22 PM
Good points. 2e 2e 2d would sell. Unsure about a 2c. Interesting we maybe waiting a while !!!!
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: njee20 on December 03, 2019, 02:34:56 PM
It's hard to imagine anyone waiting for a 2D/E once the 2F is out, so I think that's a total dead end. Likewise the 2B/C; in the main the market will be totally satisfied by the Farish 2A.

Yes the delays are annoying, but I can't see anyone swooping in to bring any mk2 air-cons out before Farish, whenever that may be.

If we need modern coaches just turn to Dapol Mk3s at £21 a piece and wildly available.

Great if you need a mk3, but pretty irrelevant if you want a mk2.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 02:41:36 PM
Conversion of existing models.  I see what you are saying nick
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Bob G on December 03, 2019, 02:45:16 PM
It's hard to imagine anyone waiting for a 2D/E once the 2F is out, so I think that's a total dead end. Likewise the 2B/C; in the main the market will be totally satisfied by the Farish 2A.

Yes the delays are annoying, but I can't see anyone swooping in to bring any mk2 air-cons out before Farish, whenever that may be.

If we need modern coaches just turn to Dapol Mk3s at £21 a piece and wildly available.

Great if you need a mk3, but pretty irrelevant if you want a mk2.

And RevolutioN are doing the Mk5...leaving a gaping hole called Mk4, which hopefully is still Cavalex's plan, after they have been done in OO.
Now who's going to do a Bullied Tavern Car pair...
Bob
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: jamespetts on December 03, 2019, 02:50:22 PM
I would happily have mk. 2D carriages to modern standards in addition to 2Fs as these are noticeably different from the mk. 2Fs (and there are certain types of carriages, such as the TSOT, that only existed in mk. 2D form); likewise, the 2Bs were different from the 2As and 2Zs in lacking the centre door and also had carriage types (the mini-buffet) lacking from 2A types.

I suspect that the market for distinct types of mk. 2s beyond air conditioned and non air-conditioned may be too small for manufacturers to find profitable, however.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Bob G on December 03, 2019, 03:03:20 PM
I would happily have mk. 2D carriages to modern standards in addition to 2Fs as these are noticeably different from the mk. 2Fs (and there are certain types of carriages, such as the TSOT, that only existed in mk. 2D form); likewise, the 2Bs were different from the 2As and 2Zs in lacking the centre door and also had carriage types (the mini-buffet) lacking from 2A types.

I suspect that the market for distinct types of mk. 2s beyond air conditioned and non air-conditioned may be too small for manufacturers to find profitable, however.

I'm hanging on to my China production Mk 2D/E coaches from 2004. Only cost me £10/coach plus interiors and super close coupling. The BSO looks a bit odd with printed handrails but the FO and SO are good enough for me, and are just right behind a blue 50 on the WR with Mk 1 RMB and Mk 1 BG.

Bob
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 03:09:09 PM
Would look good with a 47 bob.  I have 5 behind a class 47 and a bg with buffet myself, but yes  shalll have a look  on the threads re coaches reviews. I thought there was a mk 4 lner by farish but out of my period.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: red_death on December 03, 2019, 03:09:39 PM
Which coach would Revolution do? Mk1 and Mk3 are done - so that leaves Mk2's - 2A is done and 2F is imminent, if anyone announced a Mk2F now it would take a miracle to beat Farish to the shops given theirs is done and just awaiting a slot. So you are down to 2B-E not sure how any of them would sell after the Mk2A and 2F are out

That is an interesting question - clearly in OO there is space in the market for multiple versions of the same coaches as well as the different variants of Mk2.

I wonder whether there is sufficient demand in N to do say the Mk2 b/c/d/e - I'd love to see them produced.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 03:18:01 PM
Mike guess sufficient demand has to be the key factor at 20 to 28 pound a coach or a box set of 3 as an incentive to buy
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: jamespetts on December 03, 2019, 03:31:33 PM
Which coach would Revolution do? Mk1 and Mk3 are done - so that leaves Mk2's - 2A is done and 2F is imminent, if anyone announced a Mk2F now it would take a miracle to beat Farish to the shops given theirs is done and just awaiting a slot. So you are down to 2B-E not sure how any of them would sell after the Mk2A and 2F are out

That is an interesting question - clearly in OO there is space in the market for multiple versions of the same coaches as well as the different variants of Mk2.

I wonder whether there is sufficient demand in N to do say the Mk2 b/c/d/e - I'd love to see them produced.

Cheers Mike

I should like to see these, too, especially (in order of priority) the Ds and Bs, as having these in addition to the As and Fs would allow a more realistic reflection of the makeup of trains in the 1980s, which is the period that I model in N gauge.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: railsquid on December 03, 2019, 03:57:18 PM
That is an interesting question - clearly in OO there is space in the market for multiple versions of the same coaches as well as the different variants of Mk2.

I wonder whether there is sufficient demand in N to do say the Mk2 b/c/d/e - I'd love to see them produced.

I keep seeing threads along the lines of "Revlex to produce ZQX wheelie bin wagons" and (being terribly ignorant of wagonny stuff) am like "eh? and they want how much for what's that?" but sign me up for anything which rolled past during my mid-1980s spotting days at Birmingham New Street. I could even be persuaded to work out the difference(s) between Mk2 d/e/f variants. What's that? You're offering a Class 87/85/81 to go with them? Here, take my credit card. Sorry? A 116/117 DMU as well? Here, take my first-born.

Dunno whether that's enough to justify actually producing those things (especially when you've actually experienced my firstborn)...  :hmmm:
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: jamespetts on December 03, 2019, 04:51:43 PM
That is an interesting question - clearly in OO there is space in the market for multiple versions of the same coaches as well as the different variants of Mk2.

I wonder whether there is sufficient demand in N to do say the Mk2 b/c/d/e - I'd love to see them produced.

I keep seeing threads along the lines of "Revlex to produce ZQX wheelie bin wagons" and (being terribly ignorant of wagonny stuff) am like "eh? and they want how much for what's that?" but sign me up for anything which rolled past during my mid-1980s spotting days at Birmingham New Street. I could even be persuaded to work out the difference(s) between Mk2 d/e/f variants. What's that? You're offering a Class 87/85/81 to go with them? Here, take my credit card. Sorry? A 116/117 DMU as well? Here, take my first-born.

Dunno whether that's enough to justify actually producing those things (especially when you've actually experienced my firstborn)...  :hmmm:

You have excellent taste in models - especially the DMUs. Do you have a layout thread?
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: red_death on December 03, 2019, 05:00:51 PM
demand has to be the key factor at 20 to 28 pound a coach

Working out likely demand is crucial to pricing for a coach.  Tooling for a coach (or in reality a range of coaches) is comparatively expensive (compared to a loco or wagon) due to the variations you need.  We took the view with the Mk5s that the only solution was to do all the variations, I'm not sure you could do that for some of the Mk2 range so you might have to prioritise.

This is just best guess, but I doubt anyone is going to be able to do decent coaches to a modern standard at a price cheaper than Farish - one simple reason being that Farish have a large dealer network so find it easier to sell larger quantities (plus they're prepared to hold stock if necessary). 

If you can sell large quantities then you can reduce the cost per coach - as you split the fixed tooling cost across more models and you get a better unit price for bulk orders from the factories.

Cheers Mike
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 05:06:56 PM
 Thank you mike . Clarified a question succinctly
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: njee20 on December 03, 2019, 05:42:01 PM
This is just best guess, but I doubt anyone is going to be able to do decent coaches to a modern standard at a price cheaper than Farish - one simple reason being that Farish have a large dealer network so find it easier to sell larger quantities (plus they're prepared to hold stock if necessary). 

Dapol ;)

I agree that in OO the market is there for the various types - as we've seen, they get a 'proper' Mk3a, although weirdly Hornby are sticking normal mk3 roofs on their buffets, which is worse than Dapol's compromises (which I fully understand)! But they've also got the different mk2 D/E/F too. I'd like there to be the full gamut, because choice is always good, but as I said I struggle to imagine there's a market so close to the release of the Farish mk2F. Give it a couple of years and maybe...

I suspect that the market for distinct types of mk. 2s beyond air conditioned and non air-conditioned may be too small for manufacturers to find profitable, however.

That was rather my point, rather than saying there was no difference, although aside from different air con modules between the mk2d/e and f I'd struggle to identify the differences!
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 03, 2019, 06:47:12 PM
If interested in detail differences  google, type in Mk2d and Mk2e differences. Mk 2 Air conditioned coaches - detail- differences  see rmweb. Lengthy article from 25 / 2 / 2013. Photos http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-coaching-Stock. (http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-coaching-Stock.) See michael harris BR Mk2 coaches book ISBN 978-1-898-43-48-7 .type that google link, will place later in week. Talks about air con systems, where to spot vents, interior seats, toilets where they were located, colours of gangway doors, where to locate different  motor alternators,  pressure ventilators ,  locating  roof vents, . Good luck. I digress off topic so am keeping to the bare info for interested parties to read any links. I cant put the link at the moment here sorry laptop in works
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: railsquid on December 03, 2019, 11:58:15 PM
That is an interesting question - clearly in OO there is space in the market for multiple versions of the same coaches as well as the different variants of Mk2.

I wonder whether there is sufficient demand in N to do say the Mk2 b/c/d/e - I'd love to see them produced.

I keep seeing threads along the lines of "Revlex to produce ZQX wheelie bin wagons" and (being terribly ignorant of wagonny stuff) am like "eh? and they want how much for what's that?" but sign me up for anything which rolled past during my mid-1980s spotting days at Birmingham New Street. I could even be persuaded to work out the difference(s) between Mk2 d/e/f variants. What's that? You're offering a Class 87/85/81 to go with them? Here, take my credit card. Sorry? A 116/117 DMU as well? Here, take my first-born.

Dunno whether that's enough to justify actually producing those things (especially when you've actually experienced my firstborn)...  :hmmm:

You have excellent taste in models - especially the DMUs. Do you have a layout thread?

Err yes, it's here (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=41497) and even has some EMUs on it,but the geographical location is not terribly relevant to the context of this thread. My British DMU/railcar collection is here (https://www.flickr.com/photos/railsquid/albums/72157711501531207).
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: Chris Morris on December 04, 2019, 07:49:19 AM
I like to run trains that are correct for era and location. I would like some air conditioned mk2s but I really don't care what sub type they are .
I did consider dropping some Dapol mk3s into a rake because they are better value but they are just wrong for my era and location. I'll wait and buy some overpriced Farish mk2s.
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: njee20 on December 04, 2019, 07:51:18 AM
Why are they overpriced?
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 04, 2019, 11:22:52 AM
know the difference between the MK2d, MK2e and MK2f coaches (1st and 2nd class


Mk.2d &e coaches had an air-conditioning system that was, effectively, added to the earlier pressure ventilation system. The Mk.2f coaches had a redesigned system that was simpler and more reliable and meant fewer boxes underneath; also slightly different vents on the roof. Most Mk.2fs had Mk.3 style seats (orange First and light blue Second), though some TSOs were fitted with the Mk.2 type (dark blue). Mk.2d coaches had the large toilets like Mk.2b & 2c coaches, Mk.2e & f had smaller toilets. Externally this only made a difference on the TSO where the toilet windows were either both on the same side for Mk.2d or diagonally opposite corners on Mk.2e & 2f. Blue/grey coaches probably would still have their original interior colours. Folding gangway doors in the corridor connections were orange/red on Mk.2d and cream on Mk.2e & 2f.



Mk2ds had wood panelled decor whilst Mk2e/f moved to (generally white or off-white) formica. The Mk2d variant also included first class vehicles with compartments as well as some with open saloons. Mk2e/f were all open saloons.


In case you were wondering why they changed the toilets, this was to enable two extra seats in the TSOs, or one in the case of BSOs. This brought them into line with the Mk.1, Mk.2 and Mk.2a coaches which made seat reservation easier for booking staff as there was a full compliment of seats.

Incidentally, the wood finish used up to Mk.2e coaches was genuine wood veneer, not wood patterned plastic while the white plastic panelling in the Mk.2fs had a stippled finish that used to get grubby looking around arm level quite quickly


To summarise the exterior differences:

 

First Open

 

All FO coaches have both the toilets on the motor alternator (m/a) side (the large cylinder by the left hand bogie).

 

All Mk2d and Mk2e FO stock have a pressure ventilation cabinet under the fourth window from the right on the m/a side, MK2f FO stock do not have this cabinet. Mk2d 3170 - 90/3211 - 16, all of Mk2e and Mk2f 3276 - 3220/3357 - 81 have Stones air con equipment with 2 small fans on the non m/a side. Mk2d 3191 - 3210 and Mk2f 3321 - 3356/3382 - 3439 have Temperature Ltd air con equipment with one large fan on the non m/a side.

 

Second Open

 

All Mk2d TSO coaches have both the toilets on the motor alternator (m/a) side (the large cylinder by the left hand bogie). Mk2e and Mk2f TSO coaches have the toilet to the right of the passenger windows on both sides.

 

All Mk2d and Mk2e TSO stock have a pressure ventilation cabinet just to the left of the fourth window from the right on the m/a side, MK2f TSO stock do not have this cabinet. All Mk2d TSO stock (except 5653) and all the Mk2e TSO stock have Stones air con equipment with 2 small fans on the non m/a side. All Mk2f TSO stock (and Mk2d 5653) have Temperature Ltd air con equipment with one large fan on the non m/a side.

 

Brake Second Open

 

All Mk2d and Mk2e BSO stock have a pressure ventilation cabinet just to the left of the fourth window from the right on the m/a side, MK2f BSO stock do not have this cabinet. All Mk2d BSO stock and all the Mk2e BSO stock have Stones air con equipment with 1 small fan on the non m/a side. All Mk2f BSO stock have Temperature Ltd air con equipment with one large fan on the non m/a side.

 

First Corridor

 

Only Mk2d FK stock was made therefore they have a pressure ventilation cabinet under the fourth window from the right on the m/a side and Stones air con equipment with 2 small fans on the non m/a side.

 

Brake First Corridor

 

Only Mk2d BFK stock was made therefore they have a pressure ventilation cabinet under the fourth window from the right on the m/a side and Stones air con equipment with 1 small fan on the non m/a side.

 

 

Mk2d FO and FK stock have two roof vents at the non roof panel end and one vent on the non toilet side (and a water tank filler) at the roof panel end. All other FO stock have two vents at the non roof panel end and one vent at the roof panel end on the non toilet side.

 

Mk2d TSO stock have two roof vents at the non roof panel end and one vent on the non m/a side (and a water tank filler) at the roof panel end. Mk2e and Mk2f TSO stock have one vent at the roof panel end on the non m/a side and at the non roof panel end they have one vent offset nearest to the m/a side and another vent on the centre line and nearer to the centre of the coach. Mk2e TSO stock up to 5804 had water fillers at each end on the roof.

 

Mk2d BFK and the Mk2d and Mk2e BSO stock stock have one roof vent at the roof panel end on the non toilet side and a water tank filler where the other vent would be. Mk2f BSO stock have one vent at the roof panel end on the non toilet side.

 

Mk2d FO stock before 3189, all Mk2d TSO stock, all Mk2d BSO stock, Mk2d FK stock before 13585 and Mk2d BFK stock before 14162 had bump stops on the doors, all other air con stock had no bump stops. Mk2d stock, Mk2e BSO and Mk2e TSO stock up to 5852 had door windows deeper than the passenger windows. Mk2e FO, Mk2e TSO stock from 5853 and Mk2f stock had door windows the same depth as the passenger windows (but door swaps did occur!).

 

Finally! Mk2d and Mk2e stock have friction dampers on the bogies, Mk2f stock have hydraulic dampers.


The first problem is trying to identify what the existing body shells represent
One of the batches Farish made was completely incorrect, so I use these for revinyling
You can recognise this from the complete lack of windows for the toilets

Basically, a TSO has eight windows and a FO (or FK) has seven windows, and in each case (apart from the FK) the tables line up with the windows
Ignore the BSO and BFK for just now (I will explain later why)

The next stage is to line up the coach so that you are viewing each side
I use the heating extractor, which in the below photo is on the left hand side and appears on all three versions :
This is a Mark 2D
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-Coaching-Stock/Mk2D-TSO-5616-5740/i-Q9rSHg6/0/M/05737_ExeterSD_010406-M.jpg (http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-Coaching-Stock/Mk2D-TSO-5616-5740/i-Q9rSHg6/0/M/05737_ExeterSD_010406-M.jpg)
Note that the toilet windows are on the same side, and at each end
On the other side there are no such windows

http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-Coaching-Stock/Mk2E-TSO-5744-5906-AC2E/i-qBp7Cw2/0/M/05792_Exeter_140804-M.jpg (http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-Coaching-Stock/Mk2E-TSO-5744-5906-AC2E/i-qBp7Cw2/0/M/05792_Exeter_140804-M.jpg)
Note that the toilet windows have now moved to the same end, and the roof has been modified to match this

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60854097@N06/7726870008/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/60854097@N06/7726870008/)
Again in the same view, counting the windows shows this was originally a FO
This is a Mark 2F, there is less equipment on the underframe

Turning to the other side now
(I am unable to find a photo of a TSO just now, but this is suitable for the underframe
http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-Coaching-Stock/Mk2D-FO-3174-3188-AD1D/i-x7gD872/0/M/03182_ExeterSD_160607-M.jpg (http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Coaches/Mk2-Coaching-Stock/Mk2D-FO-3174-3188-AD1D/i-x7gD872/0/M/03182_ExeterSD_160607-M.jpg)
You will note how similar this is to the Graham Farish underframe
Also note the lack of toilet windows on this side

http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/photo/8169 (http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/photo/8169)
This is a Mark 2E, note the location of the toilets
You will now note this looks almost identical to the Graham Farish underframe

Finally is this one :

http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2206508593/ (http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/2206508593/)
This is a Mark 2F, note the location of the toilets
Note the single larger fan

Moving on to the BSO and BFK
Due to the handbrake some of the electrical equipment has had to be moved
It is very subtle, but refer to photos for each version

Here is a Mark 2E BSO, and note this only has the single fan, where the earlier photo above has two
http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/photo/4215 (http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/photo/4215)
Title: Re: Bachfar New Mark 2F Coaches
Post by: crewearpley40 on December 04, 2019, 11:28:36 AM
I also have notes re WR allocated 1980 stock :


n Jan 1980 the Western had the following:

 

Mk1 RBR 1644-59, 74, 1741, 5-8, 50, 2, 5, 1923-4, 44-8, 53, 4, 6

Mk2e FO 3242 - 3263

Mk2f FO 3278, 80-1, 4, 87, 3387-88, 3395-3417

Mk2d TSO 5619, 27, 41, 44, 56, 61, 77, 89, 95, 5702-4, 7-8, 17, 20-1, 25, 33-7

Mk2e TSO 5819-79

Mk2f TSO 6068-6099, 6101-6107, 6115-33

Mk2d FK 13562, 4-6, 79

Mk2d BFK 14140, 7, 52, 59

 

Only the Cornish Riviera and Golden Hind were HST services in the West Country at this time. It must be remembered that different cross country trains came from different Regions. Manchester and Liverpool to Plymouth and Penzance trains were Midland, the Edinburgh to Plymouth was Western, Newcastle to Bristol and Cardiff trains were Eastern as were the Newcastle to Poole trains.

 

By 1983 all the cross country HSTs had been delivered so the allocation on the Western was:

 

Mk1 RBR 1644-50, 71, 84, 95, 1923-4, 47-8, 53

Mk2f FO 3384, 3396, 3405-3417

Mk2d TSO 5619, 61, 77, 89, 95, 5703-4, 7-8, 17, 34-5, 7

Mk2e TSO 5751, 9, 63, 5-6, 70, 3-4, 7, 9, 82-3, 5, 97-9, 5803, 9, 11, 7, 46-79, 81-2, 5-6, 95, 5902

Mk2f TSO 6068-6099, 6125-32

Mk2d TSOT 6610-2, 5-8

Mk2d FK 13562, 4-6, 76, 9, 83, 7, 90-2, 13609-10

Mk2d BFK 14140, 59



for those on the EC and ECML note :


The 1979 Platform 5 Coaching Stock Pocket Book lists the following air-con stock on the Eastern Region:

 

Mk2D FO 3170-88

Mk2F FO 3278-81, 84, 87, 92, 3382-90, 3424

 

Mk2D TSO 5616-8, 20-6, 28-43, 45-58, 60-62, 64-76, 79-88, 90-3, 96-5702, 4-7, 9-16, 18-20, 22-25, 27-33, 37-39, 41-43

Mk2F TSO 5912, 26, 46, 55, 56, 6139-43, 54, 61, 69, 70

 

Mk2D BSO 9479, 81-83, 85-89, 92-95

Mk2F BSO 9511, 12, 14, 15

 

Mk2D FK 13562-84

 

Mk2D BFK 14139-61

 
With the arrival of more HSTs the 1980 Platform 5 Coaching Stock Pocket Book lists the following air-con stock on the Eastern Region:

 

Mk2D FO 3170, 71, 73-82, 84-8

Mk2F FO 3279, 92

 

Mk2D TSO 5616-8, 20-6, 28-40, 42, 43, 45-54, 56-58, 60, 62, 64-76, 79-88, 90-3, 96-5701, 5, 6, 9-16, 18, 19, 22-24, 27-32, 38, 39, 41-43

 

Mk2D BSO 9479, 83, 85-89, 92-95

 

Mk2D FK 13563, 67, 69-78, 80-84

 

Mk2D BFK 14143-46, 48-50, 53-55, 57, 58, 61


I also can post links for later years on LM region stock : Wembley, manchester longsight and wolverhampto Oxley plus Glasgow polmadie based mk2s
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