N Gauge Forum

Product Reviews => N Gauge Locos and Rolling Stock Reviews => Dapol Steam => Topic started by: 4x2 on October 08, 2013, 11:53:46 AM

Title: Dapol Grange
Post by: 4x2 on October 08, 2013, 11:53:46 AM
Just reading my November issue of Railway Modeller and Dapol are to release a Grange. Due to be released mid 2014 and priced at 120 for DC and 140 for DCC. Usual features including 'super creep' motor and tungsten chassis etc, no liveries announced yet though...
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: GWR-Kris on October 08, 2013, 12:53:24 PM
.... Due to be released mid 2014...

Thats about mid 2015 normal time
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: 4x2 on October 08, 2013, 01:34:53 PM
.... Due to be released mid 2014...

Thats about mid 2015 normal time
considering the announcement from Dapol at their open day, i'll be supprised if it appears at all ! I suspect that the piece in the mag was done before the open day, so it probably got missed.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on October 08, 2013, 03:09:49 PM
what announcement at open day? This was announced at TINGS a month ago, It was mentioned at the open day as middle of next year.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: 4x2 on October 08, 2013, 04:22:52 PM
what announcement at open day? This was announced at TINGS a month ago, It was mentioned at the open day as middle of next year.
I may have crossed wires here... This was the 'Announcement' I was referring to....

Quote
Quote from Robert Shrives - Hi gang,
Great day at Dapol open day, held at Cambrian Rly Owestry. Engine/brakevan rides in 12" to the foot scale. Only anouncement was on consolidation of range and directed efforts at upping electrical standards with a more hands on management style with Chinese factory - good luck my thoughts !!!

I took it from this that some models would be cut or put on the back burner, which seemed to contradict with the article in the Railway modeller that a new model had been announced, hence my comments - I wasn't aware that Dapol had previously announced the Grange, I don't tend to model steam these days and I was at TINGS so I probably heard it, but it didn't sink in...

Sorry if I caused confusion... :( :dunce: At least I've started the thread for it !


Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Richard G Dallimore on October 08, 2013, 04:31:30 PM
See Dapol open day thread, consolidation means stop announcing lots of new items and get on with what has been promised. I am not aware of any new cancellations or items moved even further back. 2 new staff need to find their feet and play catch up and try to improve things as well.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: trkilliman on October 08, 2013, 05:05:11 PM
I reckon the Grange will be well received.

They were used extensively on the Cornwall/Devon banks, and I imagine many will model parts of this.
Dapol have come in for their fair share of flack, so I would think two new members of staff would be working on improving things.
They have always been in the shadow of Farish, and with a new kid on the block (DJM) they will surely look to sort out the areas that niggle some customers. I have several Dapol steam locos (with no problems) and really look forward to the Grange appearing, hopefully with some in early emblem.

The Kardon shaft they use must merit somewhat a re-think with the competition making advances with their motors?

Steve

Falmouth 
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Roy L S on October 08, 2013, 07:09:41 PM
I reckon the Grange will be well received.

They were used extensively on the Cornwall/Devon banks, and I imagine many will model parts of this.
Dapol have come in for their fair share of flack, so I would think two new members of staff would be working on improving things.
They have always been in the shadow of Farish, and with a new kid on the block (DJM) they will surely look to sort out the areas that niggle some customers. I have several Dapol steam locos (with no problems) and really look forward to the Grange appearing, hopefully with some in early emblem.

The Kardon shaft they use must merit somewhat a re-think with the competition making advances with their motors?

Steve

Falmouth

The Ixion Manor shows though that a Cardan Shaft need not be all that obtrusive but I would think that the Grange will take advantage of using the Dapol's existing GW tenders to keep tooling costs down. So, coupled to the comment that the "Super Creep" motor will be used, for that loco at least it appears the Cardan Shaft arrangement will remain.

As to the future releases who can say, but it does rather look like the latest Farish offerings are leaving Dapol behind in almost every respect possible (The Ivatt and WD in particular are in a totally different league). I do not doubt that Dapol will want to address that and with DJM specifying coreless motors too...

Roy
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 08, 2013, 11:45:04 PM
The position of the cardan shaft is an implementation issue not a tender motor limitation. Its perfectly possible to drop it just below the fall plate so its out of sight.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Hailstone on October 09, 2013, 12:44:42 AM
depending on your point of view, a Grange is a Hall with Manor wheels, or a Manor with a Hall boiler, the coupled wheel base being the same and I think also the bogie, so the various components are already there - I cannot understand why Dapol didn't do one sooner
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Karhedron on October 10, 2013, 12:02:49 PM
Plus they ran with both 3500 gallon churchward tenders and 4000 gallon collett tenders (and others too) both of which Dapol have in their range.

I think they did not announce it earlier to avoid flooding the market. We have had a Manor, Hall, 2884 and pannier tank in the last few years. I think that pacing their releases to avoid market saturation (and customer bankruptcy  :laugh: ) is probably a wise move.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: DJM Dave on October 10, 2013, 02:06:15 PM
Hi Matt,

I can tell you that the Grange wasnt a model i had talked about before i left, as i had plans already in China for 4 other steam locos for production at a future date.

Knowing the sales profiles of the Manor and Halls i wouldnt, however, have chosen a Grange until almost every other loco in the UK had been done.

Cheers
Dave

Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Karhedron on October 10, 2013, 02:25:57 PM
Hi Dave,

Thanks for the info, always interesting to get inside story. The Grange is of course similar to both the Manor and the Hall. On the one hand this means that their sales potential could overlap, on the other it also makes development comparitively easy.

It is somewhat ammusing that the same standardisation policy that the GWR employed to help keep its own costs down are helping model makers do exactly the same 80 years later.  :laugh:

Interesting comment about the sales profiles. The Manor is on its 3rd production run and the Hall its second. This suggests that they have been well received (I have bought from further batches as well as the originals).

Regards, Matt
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: DJM Dave on October 10, 2013, 03:42:36 PM
Hi Matt,

don't forget the Manor has been around wince 3 years ago, the hall 2 years or so.
Now if you only produce 300 of each name and number, that aint a lot.

Also, bear in mind that in the last year (Ally Pally, NGS show, Warley, Leamington, Ally Pally, NGS show) the halls and Manors have been sold off to clear at very cheap prices (and note that there are 100 Pendleford Halls currently jobbed into train set packs to get them off the books too).

That's not a huge demand really is it?
It's one of the reasons that I wouldn't touch another GWR 4-6-0 for a long while apart from a Castle (already taken) or a King.

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Hailstone on October 10, 2013, 04:00:59 PM
I already have 2, one black and one green from the initial batch, and would have bought a third at TINGS, but I like others noticed that the running plates of all those on sale were bent upwards from the leading driving wheel splasher to the buffer beam, that perhaps is why they have been so slow to sell - this is a problem that is not confined only to Dapol and N gauge, I have noted other models suffer this with, I presume, similar results.
by the way Dave, if you in the future contemplate a making a King, I will be right with you! 
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Karhedron on October 10, 2013, 04:23:20 PM
by the way Dave, if you in the future contemplate a making a King, I will be right with you!
Me too. No idea what one would be doing down my small west-country branchline but that didn't stop me getting a pair of Westerns. :D
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: portland-docks on October 17, 2013, 05:17:36 PM
hi dave

i expect dapol to be flogging off more stuff at unbelievably low prices at warley again? i couldnt believe the prices last year, all coaches 10, most locos 40 etc, i imagine same again to clear stock?

if thats the case im gonna need a big bag for coaches!
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: DJM Dave on October 17, 2013, 05:23:00 PM
Hi Portland,

I have no idea I'm afraid as I no longer work for them (breaths heavy sign of relief), but in past years it happened, so maybe this year will be no different?

Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: portland-docks on October 17, 2013, 05:26:22 PM
Hi Portland,

I have no idea I'm afraid as I no longer work for them (breaths heavy sign of relief), but in past years it happened, so maybe this year will be no different?

Cheers
Dave

well it would be nice! love warley its bargain central! will you be there in any shape or form?

i do know a few traders werent happy as one trader i know said he was told he "HAS" to sell dapol at warley at a certain price and dapol went and sold them for half price so they werent selling much dapol at all :/

whats your take on that? i dont mind i just go for cheapest option all the way!
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: DJM Dave on October 17, 2013, 05:34:16 PM
Hi Portland,

My take is no comment I'm afraid. Not for me to say, except wait for my memoirs. Lol

I might pop along to Warley and see some good friends and maybe be lucky enough to make some more.
Cheers
Dave
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: portland-docks on October 17, 2013, 05:35:55 PM
hi dave

thats fair enough! your memoirs should make an interesting read ;)

wel i wish you the best with your new venture, i look forward to the j94s! (i think you should do one in NCB green number 49 :P )

Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: ParkeNd on October 17, 2013, 07:19:36 PM
Having just bought Pendeford Hall for my new layout I would be glad to see more new GWR designs in N - like the Grange.

Returning to N Gauge modelling post the Minitrix era when I last followed this hobby I find that locos for western regions and branchlines are in short supply. Early diesels like the 22, 24, 26, and 27 etc are around it is true and I have bought one of each. But even 57xx, 1400, and 64xx pannier tanks with which the region teemed are still on the Pre-Order lists. Any new spec Prairies to be had right now ?

Northern routes crack steam expresses abound in N (A4, A3, Britannia, etc) - as do very long bodied diesels from Class 56 upwards.

Given that the real train preservation scene is so dominated by GWR designs and BR standards then N gauge is going through a blank patch - or maybe just emerging from one?
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Hailstone on October 17, 2013, 11:04:56 PM
The reason that so many GWR, BR standard & bullied pacific survived is down to one scrapyard, one man - Dai Woodham.
Alone amongst other scrapyards, he had a huge wagon cutting contract, and kept the locos for later - all the others were hand to mouth, and cut theirs up as soon as they arrived - heres to ST DAI, without him, most of the preservation movement would not exist
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: EtchedPixels on October 17, 2013, 11:47:40 PM
He was also a bit fond of them, and had his own model railway and I believe a garden railway too.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Paddy on October 18, 2013, 07:46:44 AM
I already have 2, one black and one green from the initial batch, and would have bought a third at TINGS, but I like others noticed that the running plates of all those on sale were bent upwards from the leading driving wheel splasher to the buffer beam, that perhaps is why they have been so slow to sell - this is a problem that is not confined only to Dapol and N gauge, I have noted other models suffer this with, I presume, similar results.
by the way Dave, if you in the future contemplate a making a King, I will be right with you!

I have an Ixion Manor in black and love it.  I have noticed the bent running plate on the Halls and this put me off too.  Why is the running plate bent?

Paddy
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Karhedron on October 18, 2013, 08:08:43 AM
I have an Ixion Manor in black and love it.  I have noticed the bent running plate on the Halls and this put me off too.  Why is the running plate bent?


It seems to be an assembly error at the factory rather than a problem with the parts themselves. There is a thread here about how to fix it. Mine are not bent so I have not tried it myself but it sounds like a quick job of unscrewing and replacing.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16825.0 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=16825.0)
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Bob G on October 25, 2018, 07:04:48 PM
Hi there.

There doesn't seem to be much in this thread about Grange's bad running, but I have a BR early crest Grange with a Manor tender (and also a Manor with a Manor tender) which have a tendency to have pick up problems from the tender. If I apply pressure to the tender top they run really well, when I let go, they go all jittery. I guess it is an electrical continuity fault, as I dont get this on my Halls or my Grange with the Hall tender.
Does anyone have anything to add to this, and how to solve the problem?

Bob
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: potts on October 25, 2018, 07:43:32 PM
Small amount of weight added to tender will help it.
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Dr Al on October 26, 2018, 12:26:30 AM
There doesn't seem to be much in this thread about Grange's bad running, but I have a BR early crest Grange with a Manor tender (and also a Manor with a Manor tender) which have a tendency to have pick up problems from the tender. If I apply pressure to the tender top they run really well, when I let go, they go all jittery. I guess it is an electrical continuity fault, as I dont get this on my Halls or my Grange with the Hall tender.
Does anyone have anything to add to this, and how to solve the problem?

Extremely common.

The pickup design on the tenders is extremely poor, but the Hall tender is an earlier (read: superior) design.

Therefore you need to make sure the loco pickup is working - check this first by lifting the tender off track. If no power then you need to check the loco-tender wires, and their posts for continuity.

Assuming it does get power, then it may well be intermittent. If so then this is another design issue where the front bogie lifts the front drivers enough that their contact with the track is poor. Easy to test - remove the front bogie and try running - if notably better then you need to file down the raised bump on the front end of the bogie drawbar - it will be taking the weight of the loco, which you don't want.

I've always made errant Granges work notably better with these mods.

HTH,
Alan
Title: Re: Dapol Grange
Post by: Bob G on October 26, 2018, 08:58:07 AM
Thanks Alan
That's very useful knowledge to have.
Bob
SimplePortal 2.3.5 © 2008-2012, SimplePortal