N Gauge Forum

Whether I'm searching for British or American image N Gauge/Scale items, these days buying new from shops is cheaper than 2nd-hand from Ebay.

What's happening!?  :laugh3:

Is there such a dearth in N? And if there is, why aren't manufacturers filling the gap?

I'm missing something.   :hmmm:

From speaking to retailers, I've heard that used N is going through a bit of a boom. Demand is high and the prices are going up. You can also see this in recent Dapol "NQP" sales - demand for non runners is through the roof and the prices have almost doubled since their first NQP sales. But sales of new N are declining, with stock hanging around in inventory for quite a while and having to be cleared on sale. Meanwhile TT120 sales are growing rapidly though still a much small market overall compared to N. A lot of people are downsizing to TT from OO and a lot of newbies are starting with TT because it's well supported with fairly affordable trainsets.

Now, why this is happening is an interesting question and I don't have a firm hypothesis. It could be pressures on hobby budgets, it could be demand for out of production models.

But I'm reasonably confident in suggesting that the used N market reflects a lack of brand new popular prototypes at an attractive price point. But without more detailed insight, that's not a hill I'd want to die on.

It's interesting though.

EBay is dominated by retailers selling buy now items, often at inflated prices, and away from people selling their old models cheap in auctions.

I still have a few saved searches, and always look only for auctions. You still get some people starting things at higher prices, but there are still some good deals to be had at times.

High secondhand prices is obviously just basic supply and demand economics. I refuse to ever pay more than retail for any item, my recent highlight was a sound fitted Revolution 66 for £108.

Since the change that meant I could no longer link my sales to PayPal, I have stopped selling but do continue to occasionally bid and buy.

I continue to have a number of saved searches but rarely see anything pertaining to what I am looking for delivered in the resultant e-mails. A clear dearth of 101s and 108s in BR Green (the first being addressed by Bachmann) and those that come up way beyond what I am prepared to pay for a used item (doubtless others will!). A saved search for Dapol Blue Spot fish wagons brought up similarly thin pickings but again they have announced a further run with RRP at a shade over £16 so I'll wait...

In general on eBay asking prices seem to have increased even including for some pretty dire "spares and repair". To an extent I see this as a result of batch production, where long out of stock items that are sought after can demand high prices.

Not that it will change, but I think prices swing dependent on supply, so a batch of new N products hitting the market, after the initial period of restricted discount, finds it's own level, then as supply eventually reduces people take their chance on eBay with those items that remain in demand.

TT120? Oft mentioned, but currently still a small range and growing comparatively slowly, but as one would have expected of Hornby, they are exploiting their "Brand" and social media presence to promote it fairly aggressively making it appear "bigger" than it actually is. Quality? Based on the TT120 I have purchased models are at best competent rather than anything special, in many respects N are typically better quality.

Impact on N? At this point I would say minimal, over 3 years after launch the range remains pretty small (e.g. only one brake van) and appears in some cases is exploiting heavily discounted models (loss-leaders?) to grow market share which is not sustainable indefinitely. More anecdotally I know of nobody who has entirely abandoned N in favour of TT120 and why would they? The space saving advantages of N even over TT120 are significant, any layout in TT120 still requires significantly more space than N which if we look at an 5ft x 3ft N layout (15sq ft) means 3.75ft x 6.25ft or almost 10 sq ft more space! The difference is promotion and the perception it leads to.

Where will things be in 10 years time? As with almost anything impossible to predict, but I think it safe to say British N will still be around and well supplied by manufacturers. The bigger concern will be O Gauge, where I can see the decline of the "Boomer" generation with high disposable income and larger houses having a significant impact on the scale (if it isn't starting to already).

Roy

Ebay starting / asking prices have gone daft in recent years--but then so has the bidding.  Theres only a couple of locos i still want--they do come up but i simply wont bid above my set limit.

TT:120 seems dominated by 'train set' modelling at the moment. I think that's probably driven by the total lack of a coherent range. So it's people happy running a 66 with some 7-plank wagons alongside an A4 with tankers.

It'll be interesting to see how well Revolution's JNAs sell, as arguably the first 'big' wagon with a fairly premium price. The majority of my sales of 3D printed wagons are TT at the moment, way beyond N gauge.

I'm still not sure I see it cannibalising N gauge, nor do I believe it's actually that popular. that narrative seems to come only from retailers who sell TT.

My recent personal experience has been mixed. I have had a few items for sale that have sold for the only starting price - although one offer was above the start price. A few items have been relisted a number of times. Yet when buying, I have had a number of offers accepted.

The two items that I look for are the Dapol Class 22 and Bullied coaches - all scarce and as you say seem to have a high price tag.

Ebay's always been my main source as I appreciate the global marketplace, but my frequency of purchasing has reduced in recent times.  That's not because of pricing, there are always quality bargains to be found if you're patient and diligent. 

For me it's simply that I'm in the very fortunate position of having acquired examples of just about everything I want, plus being left a late friend's similarly large collection.   Nowadays I'm more on the lookout for unusual "artisan" models from the small limited run makers of things that are not available RTR.

While I haven't been looking for anything particularly rare on eBay recently, I've found the experience of shopping on there to be slightly grating - you need to be quite diligent to spot the deals.

I've seen a similar thing happen with my other vice, which is LEGO sets. The last decade or so has seen second-hand prices for some sets go absolutely bananas, and I suspect it's down to an increasing number of people treating it as an investment. Certain people have seen it as a way of making a quick buck, rather than something to be enjoyed, and the Internet makes it easier to find the gullible ones willing to pay the inflated price. It boils my p- er, I mean, it annoys me greatly, and I wouldn't be surprised if certain people treat model railways the same way.

Either way, I do prefer to buy stuff from model shops than on auction sites. You may not get the juiciest deal, but they're generally pretty honest about what you get, and are more thorough with testing etc. Clark Railworks and Jane's Trains have both provided me with some very reasonable second-hand rolling stock.

Quote from: njee20 on June 06, 2026, 12:31:26 PMI'm still not sure I see it cannibalising N gauge, nor do I believe it's actually that popular. that narrative seems to come only from retailers who sell TT.

And social media 'influencers' heavily allied towards Hornby and TT120

It will be interesting to see if Ebay dropping seller fees will have any impact?
I've avoided selling or buying from Ebay for a decade or more, but my try selling a few things again.
When it comes to secondhand prices, Rails of Sheffield currently have a pre-owned 'Peak'for sale for just 4 quid less than a brand new Rapido one will cost you. Shades of the Hatton's work-experience kid in reverse :P

The fee model changed a year ago, I'm not sure it's made any difference. It certainly didn't for me, I just adjusted all my prices to compensate for the fee transferring to the buyer.

Quote from: Roy L S on June 06, 2026, 11:28:34 AMSince the change that meant I could no longer link my sales to PayPal, I have stopped selling but do continue to occasionally bid and buy.

Roy

Paypal has reappeared as a payment option for me, which coincided conveniently with restocking on Lipo batteries not available at reasonable prices from normal retail outlets.

Quote from: njee20 on June 06, 2026, 12:31:26 PMIt'll be interesting to see how well Revolution's JNAs sell, as arguably the first 'big' wagon with a fairly premium price. The majority of my sales of 3D printed wagons are TT at the moment, way beyond N gauge.

I'm still not sure I see it cannibalising N gauge, nor do I believe it's actually that popular. that narrative seems to come only from retailers who sell TT.

Hi all,

The TT:120 JNAs have sold well enough that we are developing another wagon and a powered model.

But in N we are developing significantly more, and N sales are still significantly higher.

Both, however, are still dwarfed by OO which is where the bulk of the market remains.

My experience is that the TT customers are either new to the hobby (and in my view TT:120 is a very attractive scale; offering the benefits of a small size with more 'heft' than N) or primarily OO modellers looking for a smaller side project but who still believe N to be stigmatized by the 'cake decoration' misperception.  Often this is because they haven't actually looked at modern N models and seen that in many cases they are superior to the comparable TT or even OO offerings!

cheers

Ben A.

Sorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

Quote from: Bealman on June 08, 2026, 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

As perhaps a more unbiased view, when my wife attends exhibitions with me she frequently comments on how "plasticy" and toylike larger scales often look, especially O Gauge.

Quote from: Bealman on June 08, 2026, 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

Ben didn't say that was his view, merely that there remains a perception among OO gauge modellers that that is the case, TT is therefore 'better' for a subset considering downsizing, not having that stigma.

I do like TT:120, give it 20 years(!) for a decent range to exist then I'd maybe consider it! Interested to see what the powered model in TT from Revolution is!

I am aware that Ben did not say it was his own view. Maybe I didn't word my post correctly.

Quote from: njee20 on June 08, 2026, 09:39:45 AM

Quote from: Bealman on June 08, 2026, 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

Ben didn't say that was his view, merely that there remains a perception among OO gauge modellers that that is the case, TT is therefore 'better' for a subset considering downsizing, not having that stigma.

I do like TT:120, give it 20 years(!) for a decent range to exist then I'd maybe consider it! Interested to see what the powered model in TT from Revolution is!

I think Ben's view is a valuable one as more than any of us he has his "ear to the ground" as a manufacturer, and nothing he has said is a surprise to me.

I think a factor in strong initial sales of a given TT120 product is as much about supply. There is currently a very limited range across all manufacturers, and when anything at all that is new comes up there will, perhaps inevitably, be a strong initial demand from those who have chosen the scale.

However even taking that into account, a more careful look at products available in TT120 will also show A3s/A4s, Duchesses, HSTs, MK 3 and Mk1 coaches, Pullmans, Staniers very heavily discounted, suggesting that following those initial sales, demand is not then all that "deep" in spite of heavy promoting by Hornby and a few vocal "influencers".

 

Roy

Interesting also that having rescued Heljan from collapse, Accurascale are maintaining Heljans presence in TT with the deltic and bubble car.

And if I were Revolution, the powered model I'd choose would be a 37. It maintains the eastern region diesel focus, with Hornby's promised 31 and Heljan's deltic.  Who doesn't love a tractor?

Bob

Quote from: njee20 on June 08, 2026, 09:39:45 AMBen didn't say that was his view, merely that there remains a perception among OO gauge modellers that that is the case, TT is therefore 'better' for a subset considering downsizing, not having that stigma.

I do like TT:120, give it 20 years(!) for a decent range to exist then I'd maybe consider it! Interested to see what the powered model in TT from Revolution is!

TT120 was Hornby's escape plan - it couldn't compete with what was coming in OO and was losing market share fast, it couldn't break into N despite attempts (don't think they really tried) so they needed something else hence TT120.  Establish your own gauge and the world is your oyster as long as you can convince people that it's better than N and perhaps even ignoring that N already exists and is a long established alternative to OO.

Perhaps I am being cynical, but the initial output in TT120 was definitely not of the refinement one might have expected and it's only with the most recent releases that the truly excellent models are beginning to appear interesting that might align with other manufacturers showing an interest forcing Hornby to properly invest, or maybe the entrance of other manufacturers indicates to Hornby the gauge is sticking around.

Ask a trader who sells TT120 and they'll tell you it sells more than N, but did they have a lot of N to sell before they stocked TT120 or they mainly sold OO.  Ask an influencer if they think TT120 is selling more than N and they will happily do so.  But in reality the only people who really understand the market are the manufacturers, Hornby is bringing new stuff to market but it takes time, they clearly are being careful not to flood the market, we're still waiting for other Mk1 variants though they are now coming.  All those sales of A3 and A4, still no Gresleys for them to pull, even the solitary LMS loco got Staniers to haul.

Given enough time TT120 will have a decent catalogue of locos and rolling stock, N gauge has a couple of decades of Bachmann, Dapol and Revolution developments to fill its layouts so there will remain a healthy secondhand market even if the new stuff remains stubbornly slow to appear.  But it's not all N gauge doom, we have had new items this years, Bachmann is going through it's catalogue and updating locos as well as releasing new, plus Efe with interesting additions as well.

Quote from: Bob G on June 08, 2026, 10:23:42 AMInteresting also that having rescued Heljan from collapse, Accurascale are maintaining Heljans presence in TT with the deltic and bubble car.

And if I were Revolution, the powered model I'd choose would be a 37. It maintains the eastern region diesel focus, with Hornby's promised 31 and Heljan's deltic.  Who doesn't love a tractor?

Bob

Hornby already do the 37 in TT120 Bob - a fairly recent release.

Quote from: Roy L S on June 08, 2026, 10:46:39 AM

Quote from: Bob G on June 08, 2026, 10:23:42 AMInteresting also that having rescued Heljan from collapse, Accurascale are maintaining Heljans presence in TT with the deltic and bubble car.

And if I were Revolution, the powered model I'd choose would be a 37. It maintains the eastern region diesel focus, with Hornby's promised 31 and Heljan's deltic.  Who doesn't love a tractor?

Bob

Hornby already do the 37 in TT120 Bob - a fairly recent release.

Whoops. How did I miss that? It must have been me thinking about their new 31.
Mmm I wonder what it could be?

I wouldn't be at all surprised if one of the wagons is something like a BR 15ft wheelbase brake van, so far only a single brake van has been produced, and that by Hornby - a 10ft wheelbase LNER "Toad" which was part of the original launch (I have one).

Roy

Quote from: scottmitchell74 on June 06, 2026, 12:46:01 AMWhether I'm searching for British or American image N Gauge/Scale items, these days buying new from shops is cheaper than 2nd-hand from Ebay.

What's happening!?  :laugh3:

Is there such a dearth in N? And if there is, why aren't manufacturers filling the gap?

I'm missing something.  :hmmm:

I must admit I am looking to eBay less and less with people like Clarks Railworks and Footplate being so reliable and reasonable. Prices are getting silly, particularly British outline.

Quote from: Foxhound on June 08, 2026, 01:59:12 PM

Quote from: scottmitchell74 on June 06, 2026, 12:46:01 AMWhether I'm searching for British or American image N Gauge/Scale items, these days buying new from shops is cheaper than 2nd-hand from Ebay.

What's happening!?  :laugh3:

Is there such a dearth in N? And if there is, why aren't manufacturers filling the gap?

I'm missing something.  :hmmm:

I must admit I am looking to eBay less and less with people like Clarks Railworks and Footplate being so reliable and reasonable. Prices are getting silly, particularly British outline.

I envy your proximity to those places.  :thumbsup:

Quote from: Woodenhead on June 08, 2026, 10:41:15 AMTT120 was Hornby's escape plan - it couldn't compete with what was coming in OO and was losing market share fast,

The OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

Cheers,
Alan

My impression of UK prices is that they are actually well down.

A lot of older stuff is not holding the values it used to, and even new tooling stuff seems down. As Roy says, there's some 'in demand' items, like 1st gen DMUs that always do well and command high prices, but stuff that used to command higher values is well down in my observations.

Reflection of our decimated bankrupt economy, and tax squeezed population IMHO - these are discretionary purchases, so are likely to be the first for folk to cut back.

Cheers,
Alan

Quote from: Dr Al on June 08, 2026, 05:13:43 PM

Quote from: Woodenhead on June 08, 2026, 10:41:15 AMTT120 was Hornby's escape plan - it couldn't compete with what was coming in OO and was losing market share fast,

The OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

Cheers,
Alan

And of course with new tooling there are new prices. I don't know if its a new tooling run, but Graham Farish coaches are now nearly £50 each!

Quote from: Dr Al on June 08, 2026, 05:13:43 PMThe OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

We will see a few more fail soon I think, the duplication reduces volume for everyone and each tooling with a lower volume drives prices up. Volume is a massive factor in these kind of models and there probably have to be a few mergers or bought for a pound acquisitions of smoking remains. We've now got companies scrabbling to get volume off one another by making less and less relevant, or more and more duplicated products.

The UK is also now extremely polarised. More people over 65 own a home than under 50, only 25% of people under 45 own a home rather than renting and thus often moving around. Many under 40 only have a room in an HMO.

Unfortunately for volume production you need a lot of buyers of the same model, not a small number of very rich people as they simply don't buy enough. Fine for 5 grand etched brass O gauge masterpieces but not for mainstream RTR.

What we actually need is more of less models at lower prices, but that's not in the interest of any market player short term.

Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 08, 2026, 05:30:59 PMAnd of course with new tooling there are new prices. I don't know if its a new tooling run, but Graham Farish coaches are now nearly £50 each!

This is a large part of why my spend on N gauge in the past four years has been almost zero and I doubt I'm unusual in that.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 08, 2026, 05:35:50 PM

Quote from: Dr Al on June 08, 2026, 05:13:43 PMThe OO market is saturated. Close to everything is already pretty much available - which is why there are now multiple manufacturers making new toolings of the same thing, and trying to use features to prompt sales - and the differences in said features and detail is getting smaller and smaller.

The UK is also now extremely polarised. More people over 65 own a home than under 50, only 25% of people under 45 own a home rather than renting and thus often moving around. Many under 40 only have a room in an HMO.

Unfortunately for volume production you need a lot of buyers of the same model, not a small number of very rich people as they simply don't buy enough. Fine for 5 grand etched brass O gauge masterpieces but not for mainstream RTR.

That's a very interesting statistic, also going by model railway shows and shops how they have declined over the past twenty years, I guess the best of this hobbies days are pretty much over!

Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 08, 2026, 06:07:02 PMI guess the best of this hobbies days are pretty much over!

I won't believe they're over, but they do have more competition. People love the latest iPhone/pad and a 70" TV on the wall while paying through the nose for streaming extra channels. They have, to my mind, nothing to moan about. How each person disposes of their income is up to them.
These days, we have more than a couple of model railway manufacturers producing high quality (mostly) detailed models for us to spend our income on. Yes, prices are higher but we have to forget the good old days of low prices. They are long gone

Quote from: Newportnobby on June 08, 2026, 06:47:46 PM

Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 08, 2026, 06:07:02 PMI guess the best of this hobbies days are pretty much over!

I won't believe they're over, but they do have more competition. People love the latest iPhone/pad and a 70" TV on the wall while paying through the nose for streaming extra channels. They have, to my mind, nothing to moan about. How each person disposes of their income is up to them.
These days, we have more than a couple of model railway manufacturers producing high quality (mostly) detailed models for us to spend our income on. Yes, prices are higher but we have to forget the good old days of low prices. They are long gone

Were prices ever that low, or do they just seem it compared to now? Have a look through this price list for Farish from October 1998.

https://tinyurl.com/y2j2nbe6

Black 5s, £79.95. Halls, £69.25. Using BoE's inflation calculator, they come out as pretty much £160 and £140 respectively today. The RRP for the latest Black 5 is £175 and £190 for the Hall. But the Hall back then was bloody awful!

A J94 in 1998 was £37.75 RRP, equivalent to £75 now. You can pick up an EFE for less than that.

There is some very odd pricing going on with Ebay at the moment. A lot of people seem to be thinking stuff is worth a lot more than it really is, or are simply using Ebay's suggested starting point and adding some extra. The ones that really puzzle me are the ones putting on secondhand Sonic J50s with the auction start price far in excess of the price Rails are charging for brand new models!

TVs are a bad example to quote as an example of excessive spending, as they are probably the only thing that have come down in price over the years. I bought a 42" flat screen when I bought my first house in 2010 and it cost over £900. Replaced it last year for a far superior model for less than a third of that.

@5944 can you please fix your link, it's broken the page width.

Quote from: EtchedPixels on June 08, 2026, 05:35:50 PMonly 25% of people under 45 own a home rather than renting and thus often moving around. Many under 40 only have a room in an HMO.

Unfortunately for volume production you need a lot of buyers of the same model, not a small number of very rich people as they simply don't buy enough. Fine for 5 grand etched brass O gauge masterpieces but not for mainstream RTR.

What we actually need is more of less models at lower prices, but that's not in the interest of any market player short term.

I've seen you post similar things before, would be interested in any data on that, because I'll be honest it sounds a bit Daily Mail. A quick Google suggests 56% of 30-45 year olds own their own home, and ~30% of 21-30 year olds. HMO stock accounts for about 2% of properties, and whilst it's more prolific in London and other major cities I'm not sure I'd say "many under 40s live in HMOs" specifically in the context of the halcyon days of model railways being behind us, there's always been that contingent of younger professionals sharing flats in cities. They've never been prolific railway modellers as a demographic!

https://www.statista.com/statistics/321065/uk-england-home-owners-age-groups/


https://www.ons.gov.uk/census/census2021dictionary/variablesbytopic/housingvariablescensus2021/householdsofmultipleoccupancyhmo

has HMO data. 2% of property, higher than that of people.

The halcyon days of model railways are IMHO definitely behind us, but the notion that it's doom and gloom I would agree is also wrong. We are back about where we were before cheap Chinese labour and improved moulding technology upended the market and pricing. We've lost the cheap labour (good!) but whilst we have much higher prices in real terms that the boom years we've got vastly better models and technology in the process.

So no its definitely not all doom and gloom, but I don't think there is the volume to sustain the number of manufacturers and therefore that Heljan will be unique.

Neither of those support the bit I quoted - that only 25% of under 45s own a home. The Statista chart is the age distribution of home owners. It's not that surprising that it increases the older you get, because not that many will go back into rented once they've bought and Boomers have destroyed the housing market  ;D

Quote from: Newportnobby on June 08, 2026, 06:47:46 PM

Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 08, 2026, 06:07:02 PMI guess the best of this hobbies days are pretty much over!

I won't believe they're over, but they do have more competition. People love the latest iPhone/pad and a 70" TV on the wall while paying through the nose for streaming extra channels. They have, to my mind, nothing to moan about. How each person disposes of their income is up to them.
These days, we have more than a couple of model railway manufacturers producing high quality (mostly) detailed models for us to spend our income on. Yes, prices are higher but we have to forget the good old days of low prices. They are long gone

When I quoted "I guess the best of this hobbies days are pretty much over!" It was aimed at comparing shows that were once heaving with attendees and stalls, unlike today where everything has shrunk. Warley around 14 years ago, compared to other shows was like entering a city for model railways, but each year I attended it got less and less and the walkways wider.

Such a sad thing to witness. Ally pally was a fave of mine too, now that's barely worth the visit and I only live about 17 miles away!

I'm sure Chris Morris said in his capacity with the Warley club that the show didn't shrink, and any perception of that was purely based on rose tinted glasses about how good things were in the olden days. I'm sure there was some variation year-on-year, but not the endemic shrinking some would suggest.

Sadly, the ages of the folk who have the stock and run shows/exhibit at them means a decline in the numbers of layouts appearing. Take James Street as an ideal example - age has caught up with those who set it up/run it/break it down :( 
The best show in the NW i.e. Wigan show ceased because the club members admitted they were too old to face doing it any more.
There's no denying model railways are generally run and manned by the elder statesmen of the hobby, and their numbers are decreasing due to age/health

But younger people are getting older all of the time to take their place!

Quote from: Roy L S on June 08, 2026, 09:35:10 AM

Quote from: Bealman on June 08, 2026, 09:19:10 AMSorry, Ben, but I don't agree with the 'cake decoration' view. I have been to exhibitions when I'm convinced N gauge models look more realistic. In fact on a trip to England I commented to @Newportnobby of this parish that OO stuff looks like plastic toys compared to N.

But, as with so much in life, the eye of the beholder, I guess. I have certainly encountered people here in Australia who would not give N gauge a chance to even show it's face. I'll name them too - BRMA, The British Railways Modellers of Australia. Shocking set of scale snobs.

As perhaps a more unbiased view, when my wife attends exhibitions with me she frequently comments on how "plasticy" and toylike larger scales often look, especially O Gauge.

My wife says the same thing, strangely! She says N seems more lifelike to her because there's often more scenery to give the moving models a "place to exist" if that makes sense. Of course this is all just personal subjective taste, but it's an interesting observation.

It's basically true, though. N gauge allows for a 'railway in the landscape ' approach as exemplified by Pendon. This just looks more realistic. Larger scales appeal to folk who appreciate and concentrate on stock rather than scenery. While the stock looks more detailed and has 'mass', the scenery correspondenly looks more toy-like.

My opinion only.

Quote from: Bealman on June 10, 2026, 07:43:13 AMIt's basically true, though. N gauge allows for a 'railway in the landscape ' approach as exemplified by Pendon. This just looks more realistic. Larger scales appeal to folk who appreciate and concentrate on stock rather than scenery. While the stock looks more detailed and has 'mass', the scenery correspondenly looks more toy-like.

My opinion only.

Agreed, if you look at a layout like Pettleworth Downs, I think it's it's got that Pendon magic despite being the size of a small dining table. You need drastically more space investment to get the same effect in OO, and I rarely see that kind of thing at shows.

Quote from: Will_J on June 10, 2026, 07:27:53 AMMy wife says the same thing, strangely! She says N seems more lifelike to her because there's often more scenery to give the moving models a "place to exist" if that makes sense. Of course this is all just personal subjective taste, but it's an interesting observation.

I'm in the lucky position of having a wife who likes to do my scenery for me. She also considers OO to be toy-like. The resurgence in TT came too late into our relationship (we've been together 17.5 years) for me to even think about buying it, space being a primary driver. She actively encouraged me to return to the hobby at 40, which I hadn't touched since my very early 20s. Even if we don't work on the layout every week, it doesn't matter, the time we do spend on it together is always worthwhile and good fun.

We're working on plans for a second layout currently which was going to be a twin-track dog-bone basic set-up to run my foreign stock, but she's now looking at European landscapes....

I think that there's a degree of silly expectation on eBay from some sellers about the value of things, and I also think people need to realise that if it ain't boxed, you can shave a fair amount off the price.

Quote from: Foxhound on June 10, 2026, 08:40:25 AMI think that there's a degree of silly expectation on eBay from some sellers about the value of things, and I also think people need to realise that if it ain't boxed, you can shave a fair amount off the price.

I have gone from someone who hardly ever used eBay to someone who uses it a fair bit. I'm now only buying second-hand locomotives - my last new one was when Union Mills was closing down. Apart from the occasional Peco wagon, rolling stock is all second-hand as well. I find eBay to be a very good source of what I'm looking for - mostly ProperlyPoole Graham Farish and Minitrix models.

I agree completely with @Foxhound . I'm a Non-Collector and a train set player, so boxes aren't important to me. Finding space to store them is something of a menace as well. With regard to price, I'm happy to pay what I think is a fair price and never make so-called 'cheeky' bids or offers as I consider that to be disrespectful. If the price being asked for, or being bid up to, is too high - in my opinion - I won't normally buy.


(https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/gallery/160/6222-100626164718.jpeg) (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view&id=160195)

[Three lovely old Minitrix wagons - the 'Sutton Manor' one was made in the Wrecsham factory - purchased for a reasonable price from eBay. All were stripped down and given a thorough clean, including de-rusting and polishing the steel weight. ProperlyPoole Graham Farish SuperShiny wheelsets have been fitted. These 'roll' better than the Minitrix plastic wheels and give the colourful wagons the agreeably 'train-setty' look I hope to achieve. Hours 'N' hours of enjoyment for a modest sum. And no boxes to clutter the house!]


I think there is another thing to be considered. This is a hobby in which I participate for pleasure. It's sometimes difficult to put a price on pleasure. I had been looking for Union Mills 'D11/2' 'Scotch Director' 4-4-0 No. 2680 Lucy Ashton for several years.

One came up on eBay - I bid and was successful. But I paid more than it cost new - probably on par if inflation over the intervening years is taken into account. I am absolutely delighted with the locomotive.* George Mortimer Pullman's famous saying comes to mind - "The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten." I hope I'll still be enjoying the locomotive once I've forgotten how much she cost. So, sometimes, it might be worth paying a bit more for something that will give pleasure.

In conclusion, I consider eBay to be a valuable resource and one that makes my participation in our wonderful hobby more enjoyable.

* Lucy Ashton was the tragic heroine of Sir Walter Scott's Bride of Lammermoor - a novel set not far from here, between the Forth and the Tweed, so the locomotive is of local, historical and literary interest. Well worth an extra fistful of pounds.

'N' Gauge is Such Fun!

With all best wishes.

John 

Quote from: Newportnobby on June 09, 2026, 09:46:10 PMSadly, the ages of the folk who have the stock and run shows/exhibit at them means a decline in the numbers of layouts appearing. Take James Street as an ideal example - age has caught up with those who set it up/run it/break it down :( 
The best show in the NW i.e. Wigan show ceased because the club members admitted they were too old to face doing it any more.
There's no denying model railways are generally run and manned by the elder statesmen of the hobby, and their numbers are decreasing due to age/health

Quote from: njee20 on June 09, 2026, 11:33:00 PMBut younger people are getting older all of the time to take their place!

But here's the thing - younger people are choosing other hobbies.

There being no model or model railway shops on most high streets, I often pop in to Games Workshops (found in most large towns) to pick up paints, brushes, glues etc. In Shrewsbury on Saturday morning, their shop had over a dozen young modellers assembling and painting trolls, goblins and whatnots, all available at pocket money prices.

New N gauge models seem now to be produced to exquisite standards in small batches for demanding, deep pocketed elder statesmen. eBay is the principal source for pocket-money priced railway models. Let's hope that youngsters are still allowed to buy online, or they'll be locked out of our hobby...

Mike

The last thing we need is another thread denouncing the death of the hobby due to a lack of younger participants! Cyril Freezer wrote about that in the 1960s.

Toy trains just aren't cool. They've not been a hobby of choice for children for 50 years, and I genuinely don't believe that price is the barrier. My son is 9, we live in an affluent part of the country. Many of his friends have games consoles, many have other expensive hobbies; the latest football kits, expensive bikes, whatever. None have trains. Halving the price of models would not see a huge influx of modellers. I'm not sure there's a single other railway modeller in his primary school of ~200 children.

Younger people have always had other hobby choices, be it Scalextric or Subbuteo, it is nothing new.

It has always been the case that most younger people have less to spend on their model railway hobby than those older more established modellers, and that is nothing new either.

I can recall when I started out in N as a teenager that the little money I had was carefully spent on various things to add to my layout, some very small and inexpensive but chosen with thought and still contributed importantly to it. Peco wagons were something I could more often afford, being at pocket money prices as they still are today relatively speaking.

Locos however were something that for the most part waited for birthdays and Christmas, unlike today I never had that many and each and every one was therefore treasured. A Bank of England inflation calculator will confirm that relatively speaking, especially taking into account the amazing quality of modern models, they are in real terms not that much more expensive today than they were back in those early days of N.


Roy

I recently sold some N on eBay and nothing reached silly prices, I am sad to say.

That said, I was more than satisfied with the results, which went towards some more O Gauge!  :P

Yes, and I've said it before, I think it's a non-issue. Railway modelling has always been a minority hobby and viewed by many as a bit strange. When I think about it, it's probably more popular now than it's ever been.

Just saying, like. :beers:

Quote from: njee20 on June 10, 2026, 11:11:20 PMToy trains just aren't cool. They've not been a hobby of choice for children for 50 years, and I genuinely don't believe that price is the barrier. My son is 9, we live in an affluent part of the country. Many of his friends have games consoles, many have other expensive hobbies; the latest football kits, expensive bikes, whatever. None have trains. Halving the price of models would not see a huge influx of modellers. I'm not sure there's a single other railway modeller in his primary school of ~200 children.

I tried getting my 6 year old grandson into model trains, I have 2 metres of double line test track with turnouts and some lineside buildings. He did enjoy playing with class 27 minitrix and rolling stock, even got to grips with the Minitrix Britannia. But like his dad football is the main passion in their house, he also plays for a local team and for his age he's a talented player. Sadly even though I offered to build him a small layout, but seems he's no longer interested! 

Quote from: Bealman on June 11, 2026, 09:21:30 AMYes, and I've said it before, I think it's a non-issue. Railway modelling has always been a minority hobby and viewed by many as a bit strange. When I think about it, it's probably more popular now than it's ever been.

Just saying, like. :beers:

Very true not a new phenomenon at all, and just to add, in my younger modelling years very few of my friends be it from school or elsewhere had model railways (or admitted to it  :hmmm: ) and only a couple of others modelled in N Gauge. That I was a railway modeller wasn't something I volunteered in conversations often as it pretty much guaranteed the proverbial p*ss being taken.

In fact I would go as far as to say that model railways were probably less "cool" back then than they are today, and certainly have a higher profile thanks to celebrity "endorsement" (Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart and Jools Holland for starters) and TV programmes like "The Great Model Railway Challenge" and "Hornby A Model world".

Roy

Quote from: Roy L S on June 11, 2026, 09:58:48 AMVery true not a new phenomenon at all, and just to add, in my younger modelling years very few of my friends be it from school or elsewhere had model railways (or admitted to it  :hmmm: ) and only a couple of others modelled in N Gauge. That I was a railway modeller wasn't something I volunteered in conversations often as it pretty much guaranteed the proverbial p*ss being taken.

In fact I would go as far as to say that model railways were probably less "cool" back then than they are today, and certainly have a higher profile thanks to celebrity "endorsement" (Pete Waterman, Rod Stewart and Jools Holland for starters) and TV programmes like "The Great Model Railway Challenge" and "Hornby A Model world".

Roy

As someone at the, ahem, more junior end of the scale, I agree with your last point. I think the Internet, for all it has eroded the existence of the local model shop, makes it easier to find like-minded individuals to indulge the hobby. My social media feed is frequently sprinkled with model railway content from creators and even a few shops making some entertaining stuff! It's certainly a niche hobby, but plenty are happy to embrace and even flaunt the 'weirdness' of having trains as a hobby. It's great to see.

Indeed and this very Forum is an embodiment of that.

Would I have access to the huge network of N Gauge modellers I do without it?

Answer - not a chance...

 :hellosign:
  Agreed with the last positive posts, N gauge & model railways are a niche hobby. Indeed my now grown up son's showed little interest after the "Tomika" plastic layout when they were young.
 E-bay, love or loath is a great way to buy & sell, don't moan, just only bid what you are prepared to spend, easy IMHO
  :beers: stay safe regards Derek

@cornish yorkie, yes good point about what your prepared to pay.

I use an eBay stealer, whereupon I enter the highest amount that I am willing to pay for an item, and leave it to the automatic bidder, okay it has to be said I have lost a few bids for only a fraction over what my limit was, but then I have won items well below my limit too!

You almost certainly didn't lose by a small amount, you were just bidding against one other person with a higher bid. If you snipe at £100 and someone else bids £120 when your bid goes in it auto bids for them at £101 or whatever the next increment is. You believe you've just lost, but if you'd bid £105 it would've sold for £106.

I'm a hypocrite!  :D

Just "won" two Santa Fe SW9/1200 switchers. I'm surprised at the price. They are supposedly new-old-stock and should run, but represent insurance/parts for my beloved B&O SW9/1200.

:-[

Quote from: njee20 on June 11, 2026, 07:34:54 PMYou almost certainly didn't lose by a small amount, you were just bidding against one other person with a higher bid. If you snipe at £100 and someone else bids £120 when your bid goes in it auto bids for them at £101 or whatever the next increment is. You believe you've just lost, but if you'd bid £105 it would've sold for £106.

Not exactly correct, I used Auctionstealer which I set to snipe within the last few seconds, which meant it was only placing a final bid, it would not have been involved with placing bids leading up to the final 5 seconds!   

FWIW like most when time allows, I always bid at the final 3-5 seconds, but if I cant be around to bid, I always use Auctionstealer.

The bottom line here is, I would only bid what I felt the item was worth to me, if I didn't win, it was no big deal!

I just put what I consider to be my maximum bid in and walk away. If I win the item, great. If not, there'll be another time.........................mebbe

Quote from: njee20 on June 11, 2026, 07:34:54 PMYou almost certainly didn't lose by a small amount, you were just bidding against one other person with a higher bid. If you snipe at £100 and someone else bids £120 when your bid goes in it auto bids for them at £101 or whatever the next increment is. You believe you've just lost, but if you'd bid £105 it would've sold for £106.

And often shill bidding bots run by the seller. Amazing how many things "sell" when someone just beats the bid and then 2 weeks later reappear.

Ebay does try and deal with this but they are pretty ineffectual, at least in things like old computer stuff (where I still bother now and then)

Quote from: Mr Sprue on June 12, 2026, 09:59:24 AM

Quote from: njee20 on June 11, 2026, 07:34:54 PMYou almost certainly didn't lose by a small amount, you were just bidding against one other person with a higher bid. If you snipe at £100 and someone else bids £120 when your bid goes in it auto bids for them at £101 or whatever the next increment is. You believe you've just lost, but if you'd bid £105 it would've sold for £106.

Not exactly correct, I used Auctionstealer which I set to snipe within the last few seconds, which meant it was only placing a final bid, it would not have been involved with placing bids leading up to the final 5 seconds!   

FWIW like most when time allows, I always bid at the final 3-5 seconds, but if I cant be around to bid, I always use Auctionstealer.

Eh? I'm not talking about the bids placed before your snipe. You can bid with 1 second to go, but if the pre-existing max bid was £120 then you will lose the auction, It's why eBay even says "determining the winner" at the end, as it has to reconcile all the sniped bids thrown in the dying seconds.

I use sniping too, daft not to, but what you're really beating is a physical person sat there typing in a number in the last couple of seconds who doesn't have time to increase their maximum. It's absolutely the case that when you think you've 'only just' lost it's because there was only one other bidder who went higher, you just have no idea how high.

My Club was assisting with an after school subsection at our local secondary school, however as exam time this year came up most dropped out and it was impossible to continue..

Unlike those here who have moved up Scales or intend to, I'm going the other way. I still have my N gauge layout, and work on it at the MRC, there are other N gauge layouts there too. But I'm now just starting  on an NT layout, yep N (2mm) scale with T gauge track narrow gauge at home, While...

I've just taken apart a N gauge layout that just didn't work, it was growing larger and larger as I attempted to get everything in, it being a real place..
So about a month ago I gave up stripped the whole thing apart, the N gauge stuff transfers to the N Layout mentioned above,and I'm building the same place in T gauge...

Quote from: njee20 on June 12, 2026, 12:13:11 PMEh? I'm not talking about the bids placed before your snipe. You can bid with 1 second to go, but if the pre-existing max bid was £120 then you will lose the auction, It's why eBay even says "determining the winner" at the end, as it has to reconcile all the sniped bids thrown in the dying seconds.

I use sniping too, daft not to, but what you're really beating is a physical person sat there typing in a number in the last couple of seconds who doesn't have time to increase their maximum. It's absolutely the case that when you think you've 'only just' lost it's because there was only one other bidder who went higher, you just have no idea how high.

But if you lost the bid you can see how much the item sold for after the auction. But speaking for myself I will only bid what I am prepared to pay. However my max bid will always be an odd amount e.g £56.99.

On top of this if someone really wants to win something, they will place a ridiculous amount to ensure they win the auction, which I think is what causes the renowned bidding wars, where the other person who also has a massive desire to win the item keeps bidding against the high price that was initially placed!

If that makes any sense!

Yes, what it sold for. Not what the other person bid. So you see £101, and think "ahh balls, should've bid slightly more, I was so close to winning". However unless that person bid exactly £101 (and you've no way of knowing that), had you bid £102 they'd have won it for £103, up to their maximum.

Yes, the sensible thing to do is choose your price, bid and walk away. If you do this with sniping software you're assured the best chance of avoiding someone chipping away at your max over time. Otherwise stick that in a week beforehand and simply don't worry.

If I put in my maximum bid and it loses I only have myself to blame as it shows someone wanted it more than I did, otherwise I should have made a bigger bid :doh:

What Nick is is absolutely right. It's called a second price auction. To put it another way the winning bid is determined as the second highest bid + a smallish set increment determined by EBay.

My strategy is to snipe with a bid that equals the maximum price I'm prepared to pay for an item. If someone has a higher (unknown to me) bid than mine at the end, then good luck to them and bad luck to me.

There are some that treat the Ebay auction like a regular auction and seek to outbid one another in a leapfrog fashion much to the delight of the seller I'm sure.

Webbo

Spot the bot!

Reported to the mods - suggest this one gets the boot!

Removed.

Quote from: Bealman on June 17, 2026, 09:07:49 AMRemoved.

Going back to Ebay I use it a fair bit.
Jus5 picked up a working Minitrix Warship for £20 including postage fees etc
£16 for the loco.
Now I do like Minitrix Warships
and at the price I paid well pleased.

Andy
.

Andy , that's great if you have the skills and dexterity to work on these small models. Many of us have to either pass on the bargains or pay extra  for a competent engineer to fix it.

Have noticed that some of the pricing on ebay is optimistic, from one point the starting price and the selling price grow wider apart and some sellers still think putting £ 5 post on a £10 wagon isnt going to put people off...

On a technical note  i seam to be being debited an extra £ 1 every time i use paypal ? is that the case now  ?

Quote from: class8mikado on Yesterday at 09:35:20 AMsome sellers still think putting £ 5 post on a £10 wagon isn't going to put people off...

2-4 day delivery with Evri for a small parcel is £2.62. £3.65 for tracked 48 from Royal Mail. Add in cost of packaging and £5 postage soon gets eaten up - quite reasonable in my opinion.

Quote from: class8mikado on Yesterday at 09:35:20 AMHave noticed that some of the pricing on ebay is optimistic, from one point the starting price and the selling price grow wider apart and some sellers still think putting £ 5 post on a £10 wagon isnt going to put people off...

Cost of postage plus packing.  It does make buying one cheap wagon uneconomical perhaps, but you just factor the P&P into what you're willing to pay. Maybe make an offer, or just walk way and leave it to somebody else.

QuoteOn a technical note  i seam to be being debited an extra £ 1 every time i use paypal ? is that the case now  ?

Nope, not seen that ever.  You haven't set up some sort of charity donation have you?

With eBay's Simple Postage now the seller often isn't specifying the actual cost. Buying one small item will often be inefficient, just how it is.

No spurious PayPal charges for me!

The £1 charge from PayPal on an eBay purchase or linked card is a temporary verification fee used to confirm the card is valid. You can check your PayPal account to confirm that the payment has been refunded. I get the same treatment from Rails too.

Quote from: class8mikado on Yesterday at 09:35:20 AMHave noticed that some of the pricing on ebay is optimistic, from one point the starting price and the selling price grow wider apart and some sellers still think putting £ 5 post on a £10 wagon isnt going to put people off...

But if it is a wagon you need you have the choice of paying the postage, which at £5 is realistic, or visit a model shop to buy it if they even have it in stock. If I were to do that it would cost over £10 in petrol and my time.

Quote from: msr on Yesterday at 02:53:24 PMThe £1 charge from PayPal on an eBay purchase or linked card is a temporary verification fee used to confirm the card is valid. You can check your PayPal account to confirm that the payment has been refunded. I get the same treatment from Rails too.

As a one-time verification the first time you use the payment method then yes that does happen, but not every time you make a purchase as @class8mikado is reporting?

PayPal does seem to be using it as a 'authorisation fee' on a lot of transactions to me, it is instantly refunded back to my PayPal account once payment has completed. Perhaps it's a anti-fraud measure to do with the buyer protection, I don't really know