N gauge starts at 4.00 in
The class 87s look really good!
Cheers Colin
Nothing of interest for me there.
GE
Danm... I had #3 in the sweepstake...
:(
The 87s do look good. I seem to be steadily replicating LSLs full roster, so a Swallow one seems essential!
Didn't watch the whole thing, but the (n gauge) 66s remain conspicuous by their absence?
So the BoBs are finally going to happen?! Might just have to place an order...
Thanks for sharing :thumbsup:
No sign of the new tooling 56 as yet?
I'm just glad the BoB is seeing the light of day after soooooo long! Definitely need one at least for BL.
Dave
Quote from: Bingley Hall on August 09, 2025, 11:03:53 AMNo sign of the new tooling 56 as yet?
I learnt long ago to take any proffered availability date with a gritter lorry full of salt
Lovely that he called the Class 87 electric the 87xx :smiley-laughing:
Nice to see livery samples on the Ivatts, but other than that, the Manor, Mogul, BB/WC and Ivatts don't seem any further on from last TINGS. That's a shame.
Pocket money and pension saved for OO sound fitted stuff... from the other firm!
Bob
It does seem that getting made in China is increasingly difficult. Bachmann/Farish are probably better off than the others because they are part of Kadar and Kadar are the manufacturers. Revolution Trains seem to be struggling to get things made just as much as Dapol, likewise Sonic. I don't blame Dapol for things taking a long time; it's the way things are in China. The BoB is a bit different pre orders were low after it was announced so the project was given a lower priority than other projects which looked more likely to provide a better return on investment. They are after all a business. As they are a business you can be sure Dapol are keener than us to get new models over here and on sale. Getting as far as samples costs Dapol hard earned cash but they don't get any cash back until it is on sale in the UK. In any business getting cash in from sales is key to the business keeping its head above water.
Quote from: Chris Morris on August 09, 2025, 01:16:04 PMIt does seem that getting made in China is increasingly difficult. Bachmann/Farish are probably better off than the others because they are part of Kadar and Kadar are the manufacturers. Revolution Trains seem to be struggling to get things made just as much as Dapol, likewise Sonic. I don't blame Dapol for things taking a long time; it's the way things are in China. The BoB is a bit different pre orders were low after it was announced so the project was given a lower priority than other projects which looked more likely to provide a better return on investment. They are after all a business. As they are a business you can be sure Dapol are keener than us to get new models over here and on sale. Getting as far as samples costs Dapol hard earned cash but they don't get any cash back until it is on sale in the UK. In any business getting cash in from sales is key to the business keeping its head above water.
Hi Chris
Bachmann are part of Kader (with an "e") Industries, not Kadar (with an a).
Out of curiosity where did you get the information that pre-orders of the BoB were low? I would have though that commercially sensitive so would be very surprised if it came directly from Dapol. As far as I am aware the BoB/WC of which running EPs were seen at TINGS last year is a brand new (from wheels up) model with absolutely nothing in common with the one that was announced ten or so years ago. As the model has been newly tooled and a huge chunk of money invested with as yet no return, I would think Dapol will be as keen to launch the models as we will be to receive them.
Regards
Roy
Quote from: Chris Morris on August 09, 2025, 01:16:04 PM... The BoB is a bit different pre orders were low after it was announced so the project was given a lower priority than other projects which looked more likely to provide a better return on investment. ...
If this is accurate, it is surely a self-defeating downward spiral since received wisdom would have it that orders were low because of a lack of faith among potential buyers that Dapol would deliver in a sensible timeframe...
I didn't order for just that reason - social meeja are rife with "
...we've been waiting 10 years for this..."-ish anecdotes, which put me off, even though these are locos I would like to own.
Quote from: Chris Morris on August 09, 2025, 01:16:04 PMIt does seem that getting made in China is increasingly difficult.
What do you base that on?
The Revolution WIAs are on a boat 15 months after the announcement and 6 months after the order book opened, that seems pretty quick to me.
Regards,
John P
as regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
I can't see that being even a vague factor, it wasn't a recent model.
Quote from: Chris Morris on August 09, 2025, 01:16:04 PMIt does seem that getting made in China is increasingly difficult. Bachmann/Farish are probably better off than the others because they are part of Kadar and Kadar are the manufacturers. Revolution Trains seem to be struggling to get things made just as much as Dapol, likewise Sonic.
Hi all,
I am loathe to interject in another manufacturer's thread however I should point out that in 2025 Revolution has delivered N IHA steel carriers with Class 66 locomotives and WIA car carriers en route, and Class 313 units nearing the end of production.
In OO we have delivered a second run of OO MMA/JNA box wagons and IHA steel carriers and OO WIA car carriers are en route. There would have also been KSA wagons but when they arrived we rejected them due to unsatisfactory QC and they are being remade.
We have also displayed decorated PCA alumina tank wagons, EP samples of our PTA box wagons, JSA steel carriers, K-type Pullman cars and (admittedly not N) our TT:120 MMA/JNA box wagons.
If anything, production efficiency has returned to pre-Covid levels; however some models take longer than others and there can be any number of reasons for this and it is a normal part of the process.
cheers
Ben A.
Quote from: Bigmac on August 10, 2025, 08:28:30 AMas regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
What information is that based on, please?
Quote from: Bigmac on August 10, 2025, 08:28:30 AMas regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
I doubt it, the Farish model is/was of the "Air Smoothed"
Merchant Navy Class locomotive, a different larger and heavier loco of which only 30 were built and confined to the heaviest loads on main lines. They only existed in air-smoothed form until about 1957 when the last (Clan Line I believe) was rebuilt. So as a result, while a number of MNs have been preserved, all are as rebuilt by BR.
The West Country/Battle of Britain class on the other hand was a lighter design and as at home on a crack express as it was on a single carriage train on the single track "Withered Arm" lines of Devon. Many more were built, and a good number remained as built, retaining their "Air Smoothed" casings until withdrawn by BR (and those preserved of course still do to this day). Following withdrawal by the Southern Region (with the last going in 1967), many ended up in Woodham Brothers' scrapyard in Barry, Wales, and were not cut up but saved for preservation which is why so many survive to this day.
I suspect that because of it's broad appeal the un-rebuilt West Country/BoB Dapol are doing will actually prove to be a popular model.
So, I would conclude by saying that the un-rebuilt West Country/Battle of Britain is a completely different prospect as an N Gauge model to it's bigger brother the un-rebuilt "Merchant Navy".
I suspect that if Bachmann Farish had instead made a
rebuilt Merchant Navy, it would have been an entirely different prospect and a very popular model, but for reasons only known to them they chose not to.
Roy
Edit: I should also have said that regardless of lack of popularity, the Bachmann/Farish model of the un-rebuilt Merchant Navy Class is a fine model and it isn't the quality of it that was the issue in my opinion just the prototype chosen.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 10, 2025, 09:28:19 AMQuote from: Bigmac on August 10, 2025, 08:28:30 AMas regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
What information is that based on, please?
Hi Mick
I am assuming that
@Bigmac is referring to the comparatively recent Bach/Farish un-rebuilt Merchant Navy rather than earlier models of the "Spam Can" from the Poole era.
The very fact that there had been a "Span Can" in the original Farish range going back to 1975/6 which lasted throughout the Poole era and even into early Bachmann days strongly suggests to me a very popular model. Of course in those days the single body casting masqueraded as both a Merchant Navy and a West country/BoB, something that would never be acceptable today.
As an aside, having seen the EP of the Dapol loco in the flesh and running at TINGS last year I can't wait to see the deco samples, it promises to be an excellent model.
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on August 10, 2025, 10:14:31 AMQuote from: Newportnobby on August 10, 2025, 09:28:19 AMQuote from: Bigmac on August 10, 2025, 08:28:30 AMas regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
What information is that based on, please?
Hi Mick
I am assuming that @Bigmac is referring to the comparatively recent Bach/Farish un-rebuilt Merchant Navy rather than earlier models of the "Spam Can" from the Poole era.
It's why I asked, Roy. The spam can from Poole was a popular model, only suffering from the appalling front bogie afflicting all Poole locos with such.
@Ali Smith has shown that can be relatively easily corrected. I was quite surprised BachFar chose the MN over the light pacific as the MN had more limiting lines it could run on as opposed to the WC/BoB so the latter would have been more popular. My guess is that as a light pacific had been announced by Dapol they didn't want to go head-to-head. I bet they wish they had, now. We'd have had one years ago
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 10, 2025, 10:29:02 AMQuote from: Roy L S on August 10, 2025, 10:14:31 AMQuote from: Newportnobby on August 10, 2025, 09:28:19 AMQuote from: Bigmac on August 10, 2025, 08:28:30 AMas regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
What information is that based on, please?
Hi Mick
I am assuming that @Bigmac is referring to the comparatively recent Bach/Farish un-rebuilt Merchant Navy rather than earlier models of the "Spam Can" from the Poole era.
It's why I asked, Roy. The spam can from Poole was a popular model, only suffering from the appalling front bogie afflicting all Poole locos with such. @Ali Smith has shown that can be relatively easily corrected. I was quite surprised BachFar chose the MN over the light pacific as the MN had more limiting lines it could run on as opposed to the WC/BoB so the latter would have been more popular. My guess is that as a light pacific had been announced by Dapol they didn't want to go head-to-head. I bet they wish they had, now. We'd have had one years ago
yes i was referring to the most recent bachfarish merchant navy---which i thought i had read hadnt sold well--if it did--why not a re run ? Just maybe Dapol thought better of it.
Quote from: Newportnobby on August 10, 2025, 09:28:19 AMQuote from: Bigmac on August 10, 2025, 08:28:30 AMas regards the dapol spam can--were Dapol worried because the farish version didnt do too well ?
What information is that based on, please?
Isn't a question a quest for information and thus always based on a lack of information?! :worried:
My comment about slow pre-orders for the BoB does go back to when they were first announced. I'm sure it was Dapol themselves who said that the project was put on the back burner due to slow pre-orders. That was many years ago now and I am pleased to see a good level of confidence at Dapol with a lot of new tool and re-released items due in 2026. It could be an expensive year if everything comes through to expectations. My comments on other manufacturers are simply based on my own experience of actual delivery dates versus stated expected delivery. The Sonic prairie being a classic example of months turning into years but I will say it was worth the wait. I was not complaining or moaning, more sympathising.
Eclectic, I know, but a BoB and an 87 look rather tempting.
The N Gauge BoB has never been in abeyance but it was clear that the project needed to be started from scratch with a new factory, hence the delay. This is a brand new model in all respects, with specific tooling to suit the individual locomotives chosen. They are proving to be very popular, so I recommend getting a pre-order in if you haven't done so!
I am very excited about the Class 87s, which are due around the turn of the year. The retooled 56s should be following about a month later.
Quote from: Adam1701D on Yesterday at 11:56:07 AMThe N Gauge BoB has never been in abeyance but it was clear that the project needed to be started from scratch with a new factory, hence the delay. This is a brand new model in all respects, with specific tooling to suit the individual locomotives chosen. They are proving to be very popular, so I recommend getting a pre-order in if you haven't done so!
I am very excited about the Class 87s, which are due around the turn of the year. The retooled 56s should be following about a month later.
"They are proving to be very popular,"
how ?
I assume by number of pre orders taken
Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 12:55:43 PM"They are proving to be very popular,"
how ?
Since Adam works for Dapol, I'm sure he has at least some insights that are based on fact rather than speculation, which the Forum seems to be thriving on at the moment.
And I imagine anyone working for Dapol is also keen to drum up business for Dapol.
It seems simple enough - if you want one order one, if you don't don't :D
Quote from: Chris Morris on August 09, 2025, 01:16:04 PMIt does seem that getting made in China is increasingly difficult.
Not that I've seen. It's gotten a lot more expensive for anyone not doing highly automated work because Chinese people increasingly expect to be paid actual decent wages and that's a good thing.
Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 01:58:59 PMQuote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 12:55:43 PM"They are proving to be very popular,"
how ?
Since Adam works for Dapol, I'm sure he has at least some insights that are based on fact rather than speculation, which the Forum seems to be thriving on at the moment.
i wondered if they were now available and selling well.
I'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.
Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)
Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 03:00:36 PMQuote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 01:58:59 PMQuote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 12:55:43 PM"They are proving to be very popular,"
how ?
Since Adam works for Dapol, I'm sure he has at least some insights that are based on fact rather than speculation, which the Forum seems to be thriving on at the moment.
i wondered if they were now available and selling well.
Apologies for the confusion - I am referring to pre-orders.
Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PMI'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.
Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)
which is why i wont pre order anything--not since the Hatton Garratt.
Quote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 05:47:21 PMQuote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PMI'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.
Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)
which is why i wont pre order anything--not since the Hatton Garratt.
But pre-ordering doesn't cost you anything. It's a no risk activity.
By pre-ordering, at least my spreadsheet knows what I've pre-ordered...and likewise if I cancel the pre-order it's no longer there.
Some pre-orders are necessary just in case the manufacturer has a run on a particular item. I've seen situations when some OO models were sold out on pre-order and you couldn't get them unless you had pre-ordered them.
Not saying that's likely in N, but Revolution, Sonic and Rapido would certainly have you think that they won't make more than is pre-ordered, plus a bit. How much that bit is is down to the individual manufacturer.
Bob
Quote from: Adam1701D on Yesterday at 11:56:07 AMI am very excited about the Class 87s, which are due around the turn of the year. The retooled 56s should be following about a month later.
That's very good news. I am looking forward to running the class 56 in DCR livery !
Quote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 05:58:19 PMQuote from: Bigmac on Yesterday at 05:47:21 PMQuote from: Bob G on Yesterday at 04:12:37 PMI'm speculating here, but it's probably an increase in pre-orders since the BoB broke cover last TINGS and was running round the Dapol demonstration track.
Even so, would be nice to see real livery examples this TINGS. Otherwise it won't look like any progress has been made over the last year (ditto Manor, Mogul, Ivatt...)
which is why i wont pre order anything--not since the Hatton Garratt.
But pre-ordering doesn't cost you anything. It's a no risk activity.
By pre-ordering, at least my spreadsheet knows what I've pre-ordered...and likewise if I cancel the pre-order it's no longer there.
Some pre-orders are necessary just in case the manufacturer has a run on a particular item. I've seen situations when some OO models were sold out on pre-order and you couldn't get them unless you had pre-ordered them.
Not saying that's likely in N, but Revolution, Sonic and Rapido would certainly have you think that they won't make more than is pre-ordered, plus a bit. How much that bit is is down to the individual manufacturer.
Bob
pre order ( whatever that means )--but no deposit ?
Revolution - use the 'early bird' price when the order book opens for your item (you'd be mad not to) and pay either the full amount up front or 50% (Balance on despatch to you). Otherwise, you pay RRP less any discount offered by the retailer
Sonic - deposit paid when pre ordering (about £30)
Rapido - pre order your item with nothing paid until despatched to you from retailer
Farish/Dapol - when item is announced and appears on your retailers website you can order it/them without any payment up front and you get billed when the item(s) are despatched to you by the retailer
I do hope Dapol aren't relying on pre-orders to assess demand for the BoB. Given the remarkably long wait for it, I suspect that many prospective buyers are in no hurry to place one.
But surely there is no newly-tooled steam outline loco in N Gauge likely to sell better.