For a little bit of fun and a distraction over the festive period, N Gauge News is running it's first ever poll.
This year we are looking at which Diesel and Electric types modellers would like to see produced Ready to Run in N Gauge. Steam is a much bigger and wide ranging topic so we haven't included it this time to make sure we we have time to set the best format and get the best data from that subject. Rolling stock will follow also eventually.
https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/the-n-gauge-news-n-gauge-christmas-wish-list-2022-diesel-electric (https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/the-n-gauge-news-n-gauge-christmas-wish-list-2022-diesel-electric)
To view all options in the categories, click view all options, or see all results at the bottom of each section.
Enjoy the poll! The results will be summarised on 01st January.
Tom.
I've voted.
Interesting to see "The Twins" NOT at the top of the poll!!!!!! Can't wait for the final results.
Bob
Quote from: Bob G on December 04, 2022, 12:34:10 PM
Interesting to see "The Twins" NOT at the top of the poll!!!!!!
Bob
Yet !
I think I was the only person to vote for the Class 151! The APT-E could do with some more votes as well!
Quote from: Bob G on December 04, 2022, 12:34:10 PM
I've voted.
Interesting to see "The Twins" NOT at the top of the poll!!!!!! Can't wait for the final results.
Bob
Thank goodness for that, it means the one I've just built will be uncommon for a while yet!
Martyn
I've voted (I think), but was surprised to see that 'body upgrades' includes cl 20, 31, 37, and 47 which have been upgraded by Farish, and also fitted with the 'new' 6-pin chassis.
Martyn
I think we'd like to see upgrades to built in speaker and next18 sockets, with the attendant improved lighting control. I was glad to see voting included for stay alives to be factory fitted.
Sad thing for manufacturers is that I am most satisfied with what is already available. Ok I'm waiting for a 45/46 and a HST castle set but once they appear I will be happy.
@TomE (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=672)
Could I suggest/request that the Class 21 and Class 29 are combined to one item. I think they are close enough in outline to warrant one model...
I'm not going to spit the dummy out if you don't, for the record.
Best
Scott.
When it comes to the 21 and 29, when Revolution ran a poll (not enough support) I opted for both. I would happily have one of each, though if it was one or the other I would go for the 29. As to DMUs a 105 (Cravens) and perhaps a100 would suit my Scottish interests. Now I have relocated my layout to the North my need for a 126 has passed and Revolution are looking to the 120. I will be ordering a green and a blue one of that.
Interesting to note that post-nationalisation to end of steam on BR ("British Railways" and "Transition") account for 41% of votes cast, add in BR Blue and a whopping 72% of the total cover those three chronologically linked eras...
Perhaps manufacturers should take note.
Roy
The class 31 from Farish has been "sound-upgraded" and now has a Next 18 socket, not 6-pin. I don't see that it's in need of a body upgrade either. The class 20 got a completely upgraded body a few years ago but hasn't yet had a sound upgrade.
@TomE (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=672)
Answered your Poll, thanks for running this.
However I was surprised that the 87 is not in the 'Which existing Diesel or Electric tooling would you like to see updated or replaced with a new model?' Section.
Have you highlighted this Poll on RMWeb?? As I seem to be on the naughty step over there for daring to raise the lack of an N Gauge Poll running in conjunction with their OO Wishlist Poll :D :D
Regards
Neal.
Quote from: Calnefoxile on December 05, 2022, 02:35:08 PM
However I was surprised that the 87 is not in the 'Which existing Diesel or Electric tooling would you like to see updated or replaced with a new model?' Section.
Neal,
Did you look in the "Which AC Electric locomotive class would you like to see produced RTR in N Gauge" section for the class 87? It's currently in 5th place, just ahead of the class 89 (but behind the class 88).
Along with the class 91 and GWR railcar it's one of the few GraFar D&M locos yet to to be re-done to current standards. Otherwise there's just the VAA, PCA and FFA/FGA left to do of the post steam era models.
Steven B.
I think the problem is that only the first four are displayed initially. This, together with the fact that the number of votes per model is also displayed, may well have the effect of concentrating the votes on the most popular items.
placed my votes, but the question is even if they become a project, how long would it take, and how much will prices have gone up ?
still it was nice to think that my votes might make a difference.
Quote from: Steven B on December 05, 2022, 02:50:09 PM
Neal,
Did you look in the "Which AC Electric locomotive class would you like to see produced RTR in N Gauge" section for the class 87? It's currently in 5th place, just ahead of the class 89 (but behind the class 88).
Along with the class 91 and GWR railcar it's one of the few GraFar D&M locos yet to to be re-done to current standards. Otherwise there's just the VAA, PCA and FFA/FGA left to do of the post steam era models.
Steven B.
Steve,
I did, but it's also an existing tooling that needs upgrading, desperately! and I voted for it along with all the other Roarers ;) ;)
But heyho, Tom's done a fantastic job on this poll, wonder why it's not on RMWeb :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
Cheers
Neal.
Quote from: Calnefoxile on December 05, 2022, 04:26:33 PM
...wonder why it's not on RMWeb :hmmm: :hmmm: :hmmm:
I think treason is still a capital offence in certain jurisdictions including RMWebland :D
including RMWebland
been there, wasn't impressed, never went back again.
too tempted to get my mates to visit them >:D
certainly would not consider it treason to comment on them in the real world, though the jury is still out on whether they are in the real world :hmmm:
I think that the "See All Results" button is very misleading as I at first thought that we had just 4 of each type to choose from, "See More" would be a better title.
I'm also surprised that the APT comes out well above every other AC High Speed EMU, while all the entries have a somewhat limited area/era of operation, none are as limited as the APT.
Regards,
John P
That was fun - one can dream.
There's a lot of good evidence right here of why a poll hasn't been done recently...
- why is it not on RMWeb?
- why have you structured it like that?
- where's x model?
Must be near a full house! :smiley-laughing:
More background to poll / RMWEB here
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=58248.msg782216;topicseen#new (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=58248.msg782216;topicseen#new)
Quote from: Railwaygun on December 05, 2022, 10:52:15 PM
More background to poll / RMWEB here
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=58248.msg782216;topicseen#new (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=58248.msg782216;topicseen#new)
Umm...
I don't think that's anything to do with this.
Well I guess it sort of is insofar as it's about the poll. But I'm not sure the link adds anything . Surprised RG didn't suggest merging the threads. :confused1:
Quote from: jpendle on December 05, 2022, 08:17:36 PM
I think that the "See All Results" button is very misleading as I at first thought that we had just 4 of each type to choose from, "See More" would be a better title.
I'm also surprised that the APT comes out well above every other AC High Speed EMU, while all the entries have a somewhat limited area/era of operation, none are as limited as the APT.
Regards,
John P
Sadly the poll software used has very limited settings and showing more than the first four options without expanding the list is not one of them. For any future polls I'll find something more suitable to the task.
Tom.
Quote from: TomE on December 06, 2022, 12:11:15 AM
Quote from: jpendle on December 05, 2022, 08:17:36 PM
I think that the "See All Results" button is very misleading as I at first thought that we had just 4 of each type to choose from, "See More" would be a better title.
I'm also surprised that the APT comes out well above every other AC High Speed EMU, while all the entries have a somewhat limited area/era of operation, none are as limited as the APT.
Regards,
John P
Sadly the poll software used has very limited settings and showing more than the first four options without expanding the list is not one of them. For any future polls I'll find something more suitable to the task.
Tom.
I thought the poll was easy to use and the grumbles about it are just because people jumped straight in and didn't think "where are the other items on the list?".
Typical men who don't read the instructions. :smiley-laughing:
Bob
Boring. Polls are ineffective in any context. There's lies, damn lies, and statistics.
Oh, one exception.....
The poll for the NGF 10th Anniversary wagon! :thumbsup:
Completed.
I can dream..........
I had no issues with following the way the poll worked but if people didn't understand that there were more hidden choices then it is likely to have had some impact on the results I would have said.
However, I doubt that woulkd have any impact on the top positions in most cases as they are well in the lead. The 117 is absolutely no surprise and I wonder whether this might spur RevolutioN to have a look at the Class 76, I know it contradicts perceived logic due to limited geography, but it has been "up there" in the popularity stakes for years and if any loco is a potential "Rule 1" model then the 76 would be.
Roy
Quote from: Roy L S on December 06, 2022, 09:06:57 AM
I wonder whether this might spur RevolutioN to have a look at the Class 76
Please - Noooooooooooooooooo!!!
That and a 77 would just cause me to start another layout which will never be finished............although a circular layout as per 'Mini MSW' has frequently crossed my mind :hmmm:
Likewise a combination of AL electrics and AM10 units would have the same effect and there just isn't room in my little hovel for all this :no:
Quote from: Roy L S on December 06, 2022, 09:06:57 AM
I wonder whether this might spur RevolutioN to have a look at the Class 76
Hi
If they did I would replace my twelve kit built ones immediately.
Cheers
Paul
Voted merrily for the NBL D600 (why Kernow won't shrink their OO version I do not know!) and a Class 118 (all over blue please, W51312/W51327, set number P480. Thanks! :D ).
One week in, and the top 10 on the board currently stand as follows:
1. D16/1 Twins
2. Class 205 'Thumper'
3. Class 25/3
4. Class 117
5. Class 76
6. Class 325
7. Class 370 APT-P
8. Class 07
9. Class 91, Mk.4s & DVT
10. HS4000 'Kestrel'
Some of those have been in the top 10 consistently on previously run polls. The Class 91 seems to have increased in popularity, perhaps as a result of the end of the class in mainline service likely to be less than a year away? The one suprise to me, at least, is kestrel polling so high.
Of interest though, if we add the votes cast in the question about which type you would like to see retooled, to those for the DRS modified versions in the diesel section, it would put the Class 37 at number 1.
Still time for all that to change though!
Tom.
Hmm
Out of the current top ten, I personally would be up for:
1. D16/1 Twins (both in SR black with small early totems)
2. Class 205 'Thumper' (at least 2 in green and 2 in blue)
3. Class 25/3 (at least 2 in blue)
4. Class 117 (at least 2 in blue)
7. Class 370 APT-P (just the one, thank you)
8. Class 07 (at least 2 in green and 2 in blue)
Bring them on, please!
Quote from: Bob G on December 04, 2022, 12:34:10 PM
I've voted.
Interesting to see "The Twins" NOT at the top of the poll!!!!!! Can't wait for the final results.
Bob
Have to admit I fail to see why there's such enthusiasm for one-off or small-number prototype builds, which in most cases were short-lived and scrapped decades ago. The same seems to happen with liveries on more mainstream models - i.e. 'gimmick' liveries seem to be favoured over standard ones, even when another manufacturer has already done it (e.g. both Dapol and Farish has done the Biffa and large logo liveries on 66s, but neither has done the current standard GBRF livery).
As regards new models, a modern-standard 91 and Mk4s would be top of my list. And the Class 185, which is a major gap for anyone interested in large parts of the north over the past decade or so.
Totally agree on 'run of the mill' versus the one-offs. You can also add "Evening Star" and "Captain Tom" as duplicate 66s from both brands, plus they've both done 66111 in EWS and 66152 in DB, yet neither has done DB with large bodyside logos, post-Europorte GBRf (and Farish has only done one release of the Europorte livery as 66731, which unfortunately was the same loco as Capt Tom, and the colour on Dapol's offerings have been awful), or EWS with DB logos, aside from a Dapol train pack release. That's a huge proportion of the fleet these days not accounted for.
I think that's based on the propensity for modellers to seek the exceptional, rather than the mundane though. How many steam specials or other 'unusual' workings do most model as a proportion of all moves.
The results are in!
https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/2022-ngn-diesel-electric-poll-the-results (https://www.ngaugenews.com/post/2022-ngn-diesel-electric-poll-the-results)
A few surprises in there, along with some predictable results, but hopefully it proves interesting!
Well done to the LMS Twins for coming out on top!
Tom.
That is an excellent result.
My votes were for the first four locos on your Top Ten list!! Plus an 07 shunter top of the shunter list too! Way hay!
Bob
EDIT Happy to help with your steam poll.
No! No! No! No! Anything but the Twins........ :smiley-laughing:
But It'd be a good choice. It'll be interesting to see if-and when-any of the manufacturers take note.
Best result for me personally was the cl 105.
@TomE (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=672)
Thanks for organising the poll, and look forward to the steam one.
Martyn
Just as long as they are not ginger twins :smiley-laughing:
So the top 4 are all in the Bachmann OO stable, could that have influenced voting and they also have the 105.
Didn't Cavalex consider the 91 in N, but without the OO model that has to be dead in the water?
If I was a betting man the most likely to come are the class 25/3 and the class 105 (in two carriage form). A four coach 117 would be expensive and the Twins might be deemed too niche although we did once see a Deltic prototype, the 205 may be consigned to the 'we tried SR' bin.
Point of information: 117s were 3 cars, not 4.
The Twins may be considered niche-but the ochre D5579 was even more so..........
And we have to remember this is just a poll/wish list, not the order any manufacturer is likely to release the models. Timescale-if ever!
Perhaps if the top four are in the Bachmann OO range, sales in that scale might have influenced their release in N-or not released. It's been said before that Bachmann have number of items in OO which many have hoped would be scaled down, but few have made it so far.
Martyn
When I asked Bachmann about the 25/3 they said they were not done milking the 24 and 25/0/1/2 combos yet. Give it ten years.
BUT if someone else tries to do one, we'll beat them to it on release.
I believe the first two statements but I frankly don't believe the third statement on taking anyone else on. They might be feisty in OO but N is not their priority.
Bachmann couldn't win a race in N if they were the only ones on the track.
The problem is they do lovely engines, and I wish they'd do more.
Bob
I was just pleased to see the AC Railcar top that section as my WR branch line is crying out for one.
Will one get made...............................nah :(
Quote from: martyn on January 03, 2023, 03:15:17 PM
The Twins may be considered niche-but the ochre D5579 was even more so..........
And we have to remember this is just a poll/wish list, not the order any manufacturer is likely to release the models. Timescale-if ever!
Perhaps if the top four are in the Bachmann OO range, sales in that scale might have influenced their release in N-or not released. It's been said before that Bachmann have number of items in OO which many have hoped would be scaled down, but few have made it so far.
Martyn
But the class 31 as a model exists, unique livery on an existing model is very different from tooling up an entire locomotive.
I know it's just a poll and hopefully Bachmann are watching, it may or may not influence them, who knows there might even be a Peak coming from them in 2023.
Personally, the 25/3 is the one I would want mostly.
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 03, 2023, 03:45:38 PM
Quote from: martyn on January 03, 2023, 03:15:17 PM
The Twins may be considered niche-but the ochre D5579 was even more so..........
And we have to remember this is just a poll/wish list, not the order any manufacturer is likely to release the models. Timescale-if ever!
Perhaps if the top four are in the Bachmann OO range, sales in that scale might have influenced their release in N-or not released. It's been said before that Bachmann have number of items in OO which many have hoped would be scaled down, but few have made it so far.
Martyn
But the class 31 as a model exists, unique livery on an existing model is very different from tooling up an entire locomotive.
I know it's just a poll and hopefully Bachmann are watching, it may or may not influence them, who knows there might even be a Peak coming from them in 2023.
Personally, the 25/3 is the one I would want mostly.
Very true about the 31 being a repaint of an existing loco, and not a brand new model.
I hadn't factored that in, just the 'niche' part.
Martyn
@TomE (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=672) Thanks for running the poll.
What happened to the class 104 and 110 DMU? I remember voting for them but they're not in the extended results.
It'd be interesting to add up the votes from each section. Would votes for EMU's be greater than DMUs? Are mainline locos more popular than shunters. Can any section take on the apparent might of the LMS twins?!
Whilst you're working on the steam poll (good luck!), can you also consider asking what we'd like re-running from the existing catalogues. I can't remember the last time I saw a new Mk1 SK in the shops in a common livery and I can't be the only one wanting more liveries on existing models.
Steven B.
Quote from: Steven B on January 03, 2023, 04:36:52 PM
Whilst you're working on the steam poll (good luck!), can you also consider asking what we'd like re-running from the existing catalogues. I can't remember the last time I saw a new Mk1 SK in the shops in a common livery and I can't be the only one wanting more liveries on existing models.
A multi pack of 4 Mark 2A and 4 Mark 2f TSO coaches in the usual liveries wouldn't go amiss either. I am fairly sure these would sell very well. Plenty of BSOs, catering vehicles and FOs still around and even on sale in some places to pair them with. Building up decent rakes of standard class coaching stock seems to be the hardest thing to do currently.
Shame the APT-E didn't seem too popular in the list, given the popularity of the OO gauge model. I suspect however that's why Revolution knocked the idea on the head. 25/3, 205 and first generation DMUs are possibly the things I am most interested in otherwise.
On pure obscure stuff the gas turbine 18000 loco as far as I can see was the only omission on the survey, but again probably not something with mass appeal! I'd buy one however! And it's at Didcot to photograph and measure...
Quote from: Steven B on January 03, 2023, 04:36:52 PM
@TomE (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=672) Thanks for running the poll.
What happened to the class 104 and 110 DMU? I remember voting for them but they're not in the extended results.
It'd be interesting to add up the votes from each section. Would votes for EMU's be greater than DMUs? Are mainline locos more popular than shunters. Can any section take on the apparent might of the LMS twins?!
Whilst you're working on the steam poll (good luck!), can you also consider asking what we'd like re-running from the existing catalogues. I can't remember the last time I saw a new Mk1 SK in the shops in a common livery and I can't be the only one wanting more liveries on existing models.
Steven B.
And the metaphorical prize goes to Steven B, for spotting the two DMU classes I missed! I've updated the full results sheet to include the 104 & 110 so if you re-download they should be included now.
Not sure if rolling stock will be included with the Steam poll, that may follow separately, but will certainly include something about re-issues.
Tom.
Quote from: pinball on January 03, 2023, 06:27:05 PM
Quote from: Steven B on January 03, 2023, 04:36:52 PM
A multi pack of 4 Mark 2A and 4 Mark 2f TSO coaches in the usual liveries wouldn't go amiss either. I am fairly sure these would sell very well. Plenty of BSOs, catering vehicles and FOs still around and even on sale in some places to pair them with. Building up decent rakes of standard class coaching stock seems to be the hardest thing to do currently.
Agree on the multipacks, possibly 5x TSOs for cross-country rakes.
At the very least do a re-run with 5x more TSOs made than the other types. It didn't take a rocket scientist to predict the current over-stock of BSOs, TFs and Buffets. Heck even I predicted it.
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 03, 2023, 02:58:42 PM
So the top 4 are all in the Bachmann OO stable, could that have influenced voting and they also have the 105.
Didn't Cavalex consider the 91 in N, but without the OO model that has to be dead in the water?
If I was a betting man the most likely to come are the class 25/3 and the class 105 (in two carriage form). A four coach 117 would be expensive and the Twins might be deemed too niche although we did once see a Deltic prototype, the 205 may be consigned to the 'we tried SR' bin.
Yep Cavalex looked at the 91/MK4s/DVTs. Even I would consider a 91 just so I could have a go at the 91/Class 43 (buffers) combo.
However I honestly think that is far too much of a gamble for anybody to do now, especially as the 90s were announced and arrived in just over 3 months. Frankly this could now apply to anything in 00 done by Bachmann.
Skyline2uk
Not a great poll result as far as I am concerned except perhaps the 25/3
Still happy to await
Class 21/29 eventually being released by someone, a must for Scottish transition era. Also was trialed in Englandshire.
Class 100 DMU would have been nice.
Stanier porthole coaches to go with the other Farish ones?
I forgot to also suggest a BR Standard Six, "CLAN CLASS" particularly Clan McGregor.
Nice to see the railcars being mentioned. Got my Wickham one from Etched Pixels luckily.
Nice to one day see a Caledonian Railway "Jumbo" not too far a stretch from the Farish C Class released a few years ago. These ran for the best part of 80 or 90 years!!
I guess some will say these are "niche" markets.
GE
I think the biggest take away from the poll is that none of the winners got more then 50% of the vote, and in some categories there wasn't much difference between the top 3 or 4.
All the most obvious stuff has been done and redone many times. which just leaves relatively niche prototypes by comparison.
I wouldn't like to be a manufacturer betting on any of the poll winners, it must be a tough decision making process.
Regards,
John P
@Skyline2uk (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081) don't forget that behind the three months from announcement to delivery is a couple of years development.
Whatever we see in the next 12 months that is new will be several years down the line from when the project had been kicked off by Bachmann.
Looking at the items that were high polling none are probably a surprise to Bachmann and hopefully some are already in the pipeline.
Quote from: TomE on January 03, 2023, 06:33:00 PM
I've updated the full results sheet to include the 104 & 110 so if you re-download they should be included now.
Thanks Tom.
I'm amazed they both got less votes than the class 141.
Also less than the class 139 - only used on a 0.8mile single track branch line!
Steven B.
I think class 141, 143, 144 would be good to have in n gauge!
anyway I think there are quite a few things on the list that would be commercially viable so look forward to what the manufacturer's announce this year!
I would prefer more useful items to niche prototypes, although I like everything!
come on bachmann get on with class 25/3 and 24/1 !!
tim
I certainly think a 143 may be a reasonable option - they did cover North East England, Wales and the West Country so have plenty of potential. The 142s after all seem to be popular models.
Quote from: pinball on January 04, 2023, 09:29:08 AM
I certainly think a 143 may be a reasonable option - they did cover North East England, Wales and the West Country so have plenty of potential. The 142s after all seem to be popular models.
The 143 and 144 are so similar that any manufacturer doing them could tool for both. Most notable difference is that some of the 144s have a centre car, but if that proved too expensive they could just do the 2-car version.
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 03, 2023, 11:05:57 PM
@Skyline2uk (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081) don't forget that behind the three months from announcement to delivery is a couple of years development.
Whatever we see in the next 12 months that is new will be several years down the line from when the project had been kicked off by Bachmann.
Looking at the items that were high polling none are probably a surprise to Bachmann and hopefully some are already in the pipeline.
It's also relevant that they did the Class 90 in OO, so already had the survey work done. I wonder whether they might also do an 87 off the back of this - yes, it would need the survey and CAD work doing as they haven't and aren't likely to do it in OO, but so far as I recall the bogie dimensions and spacing are pretty much identical to the Class 90, so they could potentially use the same chassis.
Would have thought the 91 is less likely - both because they haven't and aren't likely to do it in OO, and because (unlilke the 90) it's fairly useless on its own without the Mk4 stock, which would obviously add considerably to the cost - especially as locos and stock went through a major modificiation programme part-way through their lives, and there are a number of different trailer types. All of which would make it an expensive project.
Would a 25/3 be viable with the current chassis? There seems to be a lot of chassis hidden by the batteries, fuel and water tanks on the Farish 25/2 in the area which would be a bit less populated on a 25/3. Maybe an easier win for the later cab type with the current chassis would be the 25/2 25083 - 25087 batch?
Quote from: SD35 on January 04, 2023, 10:03:43 AM
Would a 25/3 be viable with the current chassis? There seems to be a lot of chassis hidden by the batteries, fuel and water tanks on the Farish 25/2 in the area which would be a bit less populated on a 25/3. Maybe an easier win for the later cab type with the current chassis would be the 25/2 25083 - 25087 batch?
SEE MY EARLIER REPLY #44
When I asked Bachmann about the 25/3 [at TINGS pre Covid] they said they were not done milking the 24 and 25/0/1/2 combos yet. Give it ten years.
BUT if someone else tries to do one, we'll beat them to it on release.
I believe the first two statements but I frankly don't believe the third statement on taking anyone else on. They might be feisty in OO but N is not their priority.
Bachmann couldn't win a race in N if they were the only ones on the track.
The problem is they do lovely engines, and I wish they'd do more.Another problem is that their logic is that there are more people that don't care what they run than people who do, so a Class 25 is just a small Bo-Bo and it could be a 24, so why not keep turning out the same old same old, until folk are sick of them. They choose good prototypes with long operational lives for exactly this reason. Gets lots of versions done and sold.
Bob
Quote from: Woodenhead on January 03, 2023, 11:05:57 PM
@Skyline2uk (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=1081) don't forget that behind the three months from announcement to delivery is a couple of years development.
Whatever we see in the next 12 months that is new will be several years down the line from when the project had been kicked off by Bachmann.
Looking at the items that were high polling none are probably a surprise to Bachmann and hopefully some are already in the pipeline.
Exactly my point!
Also, ref the 91 and associated stock, I know it's Hornby that do the 00 versions but surely with them already in the N gauge back catalogue from Farish it's screaming for a re-tool?
Skyline2uk
Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 04, 2023, 10:16:41 AM
Also, ref the 91 and associated stock, I know it's Hornby that do the 00 versions but surely with them already in the N gauge back catalogue from Farish it's screaming for a re-tool?
Not sure that would be especially relevant given that they'd have to start from scratch anyway - and remember that the old ones just used printing onto a plain bodyshell for the Mk4s; that approach wouldn't work with models to modern standards.
I've sent the full results to all the major manufacturers, so it's over to them now.
Obviously they will have their production schedule set for the next 1-2 years already so the poll is unlikely to affect much, although I do believe there is at least one of the high ranking results that might appear during 2023. (Not the 25/3, before anyone gets their hopes up!)
I was pleased the 91 polled so high, because I'd really like one! Looking back over previous polls it has certainly climbed the rankings and perhaps its fairly imminent demise has resulted in more interest.
I think the biggest surprise for me was the Class 76, given their very specific area of operation, but then the Woodhead has always been the source of much interest I guess.
Tom.
Of course, it's a total start from scratch, just really comes down to whether or not Bachmann / Farish wish to protect their catalogue or allow it to be taken over by another player.
In any case it's a big gap in U.K. n gauge.
Skyline2uk
Quote from: TomE on January 04, 2023, 11:17:38 AM
I think the biggest surprise for me was the Class 76, given their very specific area of operation, but then the Woodhead has always been the source of much interest I guess.
Hi
It was a surprise to me too but I won't get my hopes up.
Cheers
Paul
Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 04, 2023, 11:20:09 AM
Of course, it's a total start from scratch, just really comes down to whether or not Bachmann / Farish wish to protect their catalogue or allow it to be taken over by another player.
In any case it's a big gap in U.K. n gauge.
Skyline2uk
Indeed - but remember that they've lost some significant models (to Dapol) in the past - Class 50 and 56, and HST / Mk3s.
I'd like to see a 91, but I can see why it may not be appealing to manufacturers given that it needs the Mk4 stock too, and the geograpical covereage of Mk4s is much less than Mk3s, with there being far fewer built and them running exclusively in Mk4-only fixed formation sets.
Quote from: davidinyork on January 04, 2023, 11:25:22 AM
Quote from: Skyline2uk on January 04, 2023, 11:20:09 AM
Of course, it's a total start from scratch, just really comes down to whether or not Bachmann / Farish wish to protect their catalogue or allow it to be taken over by another player.
In any case it's a big gap in U.K. n gauge.
Skyline2uk
Indeed - but remember that they've lost some significant models (to Dapol) in the past - Class 50 and 56, and HST / Mk3s.
I'd like to see a 91, but I can see why it may not be appealing to manufacturers given that it needs the Mk4 stock too, and the geograpical covereage of Mk4s is much less than Mk3s, with there being far fewer built and them running exclusively in Mk4-only fixed formation sets.
Absolutely.
I have scratched my head at the amount of N gauge models Bachfar have apparently "given up", with the ones you mention as well as the 52 and 33.
That being said, they have also introduced brand new items so maybe it's just a case of what they believe will return a profit.
Absolutely agree the 91/Mk4 sets are a huge investment and have less geographical appeal than the HST / MK3s.
But I do believe they would be well received. How many people bought a Hornby 91 train set just because they liked it?
I have no "need" for a Pendo, but I got one. I would seriously consider at least the 91 as well (aforementioned use on the ECML with MK3s).
Skyline2uk
The KATO 800, Dapol HST and forthcoming Revolution Class 180 also make modelling the ECML a much more realistic prospect these days, which may also have contributed to the increased popularity of the 91.
Cavalex had done a lot of the groundwork on the 91 for their OO version so maybe the best option is for those who voted for it to contact them to express interest in one, giving them the confidence to move forward with an N Gauge version.
Tom.
Tom.
Indeed. I would have thought the HST would have been possibly one of the most profitable models of the lot, so I am surprised Farish gave up on that.
Fits into every era from the mid 70s to current day, pretty much every single area (other than really Kent - even Essex / Anglia / Mid Wales / Shropshire have seen HST charters and special day trips) and still used in top link high speed work on Cross Country.
I reckon Kato were very shrewd to get in with the Class 800 when they did and presumably are going to at some point expand the rage to the various other forms of 800 series units which will soon be widespread throughout most of the network. Absolutely not a fan of these awful trains (though I suspect the interiors could easily be improved), but the Kato model looks absolutely superb and I've heard nothing but stellar reviews of it, and like it or not, it's 800 variants for most intercity trains eventually going forward, with the West Coast and Midland Mainline soon taking them on.
Quote from: pinball on January 04, 2023, 11:43:49 AM
Fits into every era from the mid 70s to current day, pretty much every single area (other than really Kent - even Essex / Anglia / Mid Wales / Shropshire have seen HST charters and special day trips) and still used in top link high speed work on Cross Country.
The loco-hauled variant of the Mk3 (which is not much different from the HST version in model form) were used on the Marches line for a number of years until recently, and they were used on the main London-Norwich services until recently.
Going off topic a bit, but it would be good if Dapol could produce those Mk3s and DVT in Greater Anglia livery - Farish would probably then do the 90 to match.
Really interesting exercise Tom, thank you very much for taking the time to do it.
A little disappointed that 1st gen Southern 3rd rail electrics haven't fared better - there seems to be a clear preference for more modern southern traction. Wessex 442 secured 247 votes whilst the 2EPB, which I have long thought was a no-brainer for Farish, only managed 92. Hope Farish somehow miss that when they look at the numbers (which I trust they will). The prospects of a 71 and 74 haven't exactly been given a boost either. At least the 4TC has topped 100 votes - I might send Kernow a cheeky email suggesting they shrink their OO version, although it'll be rather more in hope than expectation.
Mark
Quote from: Mark on January 04, 2023, 11:55:15 AM
The prospects of a 71 and 74 haven't exactly been given a boost either.
Hattons currently have the Hornby OO Class 71 reduced from an RRP of £206 to £89. Doesn't indicate a particularly high demand for this loco, even in the more popular gauge...
Quote from: davidinyork on January 04, 2023, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: Mark on January 04, 2023, 11:55:15 AM
The prospects of a 71 and 74 haven't exactly been given a boost either.
Hattons currently have the Hornby OO Class 71 reduced from an RRP of £206 to £89. Doesn't indicate a particularly high demand for this loco, even in the more popular gauge...
Go ahead ... kick a man whilst he's down .... :*(
Quote from: Mark on January 04, 2023, 12:08:06 PM
Quote from: davidinyork on January 04, 2023, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: Mark on January 04, 2023, 11:55:15 AM
The prospects of a 71 and 74 haven't exactly been given a boost either.
Hattons currently have the Hornby OO Class 71 reduced from an RRP of £206 to £89. Doesn't indicate a particularly high demand for this loco, even in the more popular gauge...
This sort of backs up my theory of why a number of Bachmann models haven't made it to N.
Martyn
Quote from: Mark on January 04, 2023, 11:55:15 AM
Really interesting exercise Tom, thank you very much for taking the time to do it.
A little disappointed that 1st gen Southern 3rd rail electrics haven't fared better
Mark
I have said this before (and I still wonder if I am a bit demented in suggesting this) but if Peco or similar produced factory made 3rd rail track, I wonder if that would be a gamechanger. There are plenty of fantastic modellers who have a done an outstanding job of modelling the 3rd rail, but I wonder how many people would be interested in 3rd rail trains if there was an easier way of getting 3rd rail track.
Quote from: pinball on January 04, 2023, 12:47:28 PM
but I wonder how many people would be interested in 3rd rail trains if there was an easier way of getting 3rd rail track.
I suspect it won't make much difference - my guess is that most Dapol class 86, Farish 90 and Revolution 92s won't run under overhead wires.
I think the bigger problem is the the limited range of third rail units. The 4-CEP as produced by Farish didn't get far from Kent until later in their lives (and after refurbishment). Add in some variation like a 2-EPB or 4-EPB and I'm sure interest will increase.
Steven B.
I expect you are probably correct. Although one of the reasons I didn't even consider buying AC locos is because despite being interested in them - overhead wires look an absolute pain to model, and I wondered if other people had similar thoughts about both overheads and 3rd rail, and it puts them off modelling these regions a bit. So hence the models don't sell as well, even if people are interested in the traction.
I do wonder if that is part of the reason why Western Region, Southern away from 3rd rail land, and Scottish region layouts seem to be popular choices for people to model even when we are talking from the 70s to the present day in terms of era, the major absence of electrification - as well as the scenic options these areas often afford.
Quote from: davidinyork on January 04, 2023, 12:02:16 PM
Quote from: Mark on January 04, 2023, 11:55:15 AM
The prospects of a 71 and 74 haven't exactly been given a boost either.
Hattons currently have the Hornby OO Class 71 reduced from an RRP of £206 to £89. Doesn't indicate a particularly high demand for this loco, even in the more popular gauge...
Not strictly true.
1. The RRP is bizarrely inflated to current prices but the model dates from a 2017 production run, and was about £130 new then.
2. The model they are selling off is the BR Blue pre TOPS version - less demand for this version than the TOPS version.
3. On EBay the model resells well, especially the green version.
4. I have two DJ Models 71s which I think have a much better look and performance than the Hornby one (of which I have one version). The DJModels ones I paid £125 for the Kickstarter 71009 in 2017 (with a promise of a good price on a Class 74 the following year, ho hum) and last year I paid £100 for the Kernow weathered limited edition 71008. The Hornby 71012 I bought secondhand for £92, which I think is a fair price, all in all.
5. The renumbering of locos in OO seems not to be so popular than in N, because there are often sufficient livery re-runs to not make it worthwhile (I have three TOPS class 71s, for example).
Going back to N gauge for a while...
I've just fitted two Class 70 Bulleid Boosters to Farish 31 chassis and so I have got my fill of Class 70 electrics, and @Mr Sprue (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=2668) is in the process of crafting a Class 71, and that will do me fine, when it comes along. I already have BHE versions of a Class 71 and 74, so no rush there.
I think the SR 1950s-1980s modellers are so used to hacking Worsley Works sides to make their EMUs that they don't feature as much as e.g. the Thumper does in this Poll, because (a) that's a DMU and (b) it got further into WR territory.
Just my thoughts
Bob
The Class 71 situation in OO is a bit of an odd one.
First you had the duplication with the Hornby and DJ Models versions.
Then in typical Hornby fashion they done a second batch of theirs while the first batch was still on shelves.
Hardly a surprise they are in the bargin bin now sadly.
Would be nice to see a 71/74 in N but I hold out little hope.