£42k raised by crowd-funding
£42,745 raised of £500 target by 2606 supporters
Hands up - did we all contribute?
it won't replace the pain and loss of years of hard work though. What will they do with the ££??
(please avoid all controversial comments here - Robomod is watching)
The insurance should cover the school. Split the money equally between the mrc at deeping, exhibitors and traders?
Quote from: crewearpley40 on May 20, 2019, 08:56:04 AM
The insurance should cover the school. Split the money equally between the mrc at deeping, exhibitors and traders?
Er... the exhibition itself must have taken out insurance surely? Need to be very careful this doesn't give the insurance company any way of avoiding paying out against what was covered.
Excellent bit of fundraising though, a credit to all who have donated.
I must admit I was wondering what they're going to do with it all.
The insurance should be paying for material damage. You'll never replace the time and effort spent - so what does the club actually plan to do with the £40k+? Is it being distributed among the exhibitors, as obviously the club will have only had a proportional representation.
Marvellous example of the community spirit though.
Depends if the club's insurance covered loss of income from the cancelled show. If not, then a chunk of it would be used to cover the loss.
They'd certainly also have to cover the insurance excess, and hopefully pay any additional money that wasn't covered by the insurance.
With what's left over I'd hope they'd work with some local youth groups to encourage modelling amongst the peers of the perpetrators.
Steven B.
Obviously shows have to have public liability insurance by law, but I'm assuming they have exhibition insurance too, but I guess that isn't a legal requirement, and that would leave them out of pocket. On the assumption they do then that should cover cancellation and loss of income.
Do shows tend to go for that, or just the legal bear minimum?
It's worth repeating the link:
https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/market-deeping-mrc (https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/market-deeping-mrc)
Rod Stewart donates to Market Deeping Model Railway Club
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48332649 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48332649)
Quote from: Philipp on May 20, 2019, 03:47:41 PM
Rod Stewart donates to Market Deeping Model Railway Club
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48332649 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-48332649)
Rod Stewart donates £10,000 to Market Deeping Model Railway Club
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7049035/Well-wishers-raise-nearly-50-000-model-railway-club-smashed-yobs.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7049035/Well-wishers-raise-nearly-50-000-model-railway-club-smashed-yobs.html)
£66,925 so far
That's literally the post before yours!
I see they've upped the target to £75k, which is amazing, I still want to know what they're going to do with it though, particularly as a new 'target' somehow infers a specific use for the funds. Or will they just keep upping it once the target is reached?
Quote from: njee20 on May 20, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
I still want to know what they're going to do with it though
I guess that's up to them. Given with love and sympathy, no strings attached.
Quote from: daffy on May 20, 2019, 07:36:26 PM
Quote from: njee20 on May 20, 2019, 06:43:45 PM
I still want to know what they're going to do with it though
I guess that's up to them. Given with love and sympathy, no strings attached.
Well yes, but the page definitely implies that it's all for the club, where realistically a lot of those to have lost out are not in the club, rather the stands and layouts of other attendees. The Just Giving page now says "our thoughts are turning to those others affected", so are all the funds for the club, or for those who have had things destroyed or damaged?
£77k now, as an aside.
Possibly going against the majority, but starting to feel a bit uneasy about this now...
Absolutely sympathise with the individual modellers who have suffered, but can't help but think that the organising club are starting to 'milk' it now... Evidence the funding target, suddenly increased from £5000 to £75000 with no explanation of what they intend to do with the extra money. A properly managed show would have had adequate insurance, so if it found they were under insured and it is to cover uninsured losses it raises questions of the competence of the organisers and should be of concern to potential future exhibitors.
Presumably, they have considered the implications for any insurance claim they make and any (potential) tax liabilities and will declare the income appropriately...
Totally agree, I'm also a bit uneasy about it, particularly the increase in the target.
I presume the £500 wasn't entirely arbitrary (although I'm sure it was to a degree), to increase it so much without saying "this is what we want to do with it" feels a bit opportunistic to me. Probably controversial, but hey, I'm often one to court controversy!
That said, the donations are basically out of their hands, so I'm not sure they will have considered things like insurance and tax implications.
The DAily M ail link I posted has a section on PD Marsh - he lost all his stock and demo models. ( 20 yrs worth) . I wonder if the club will support him?
Paul Andrews, 58, owner of P&D Marsh model railway suppliers, who lives in Wisbech, Cambridgeshire, estimates the vandals caused more than £20,000 worth of damage to the model railway gear he sells as a business.
The vandals smashed more than 500 or Mr Andrews' 600 display items, featuring trains and train set accessories such as cars, animals, people and telegraph poles.
'I make trains and things like cars, animals, people and telegraph poles,' he said.
'About 90 per cent of these are smashed beyond replacement.
'It might take me two hours to replace each one, so at least 1,000 hours of my time.
'If I value my time at £20 an hour, it's £20,000 of my time.
'I have to buy the materials as well.
'If they had just come in and stole a few pieces, then you can deal with it.
'But t's just mindless. It's depressing. It's frustrating someone has destroyed a big chunk of my business,' he added.
I wonder how the club will cope with sudden wealth - choccie biscuits every meeting?
They will need a watertight constitution and management to safeguard it for the future. I pity them.
N
Could that be a way of keeping the fund open, bearing in mind the original target was just exceeded, but completely smashed? My reading of the situation was the original £500 was simply 'well, let's put a figure down, because we have to'. I suspect this was to cover the various sundry costs and losses to the club that would not be covered by insurance; show guide printing, food, advertising. I don't believe they expected to get anywhere near that amount. Just a few quid to lessen the club's losses.
This does, of course, take the club into the realms of the unknown (being the secretary of a club myself, the initial vandalism would be stressful enough, but the responsibility and expectations around this amount of money and publicity would send me over the edge!). This situation is completely unprecedented and in some ways the huge response, including some high profile names, is going to be a curse for them.
The 'easy' bit was the giving of money, now for the difficult bit. The support the club needs is how to deal with a situation which has got completely out of their control...these are not professional fund raisers, just a bunch of guys who have been thrust into the limelight at a traumatic time for them.
I'm sure there will be more questions as time goes on the the money keeps stacking up, but I honestly believe the club don't really know what they are going to go with this amount of money...they need time and support for this to sink in.
Surely traders like PD Marsh have their own insurance.
Surely the plug can be pulled?
"Donations have exceeded expectations, and no more are required at this time. Thank you to all who donated. Details of the way the funds were channelled to be forthcoming, when these are finalised. Once again thank you"
Or something like that?
Sorry, I'm a scientist and never been good at legal stuff :-[
Quote from: Buffin on May 21, 2019, 09:12:27 AM
Surely traders like PD Marsh have their own insurance.
Any reputable trader will have third-party and product liability cover (as an aside, exhibition organisers should think carefully about inviting any trader who doesn't as any liability could fall back on them) but traders won't necessarily have cover for loss/damage to 'stock in trade' - that is a calculated gamble on their part and I know a significant minority, particularly small volume 'cottage industry' manufacturers and second-hand dealers don't...
I don't think it's the cost of the stuff traders lost as I am sure they have policies in place to cover that but as Paul said PD Marsh make many of the items they sell and you can't get back those hours. Mind you, I wouldn't mind being on £20/hr, I'd go and make telegraph poles for Paul for that.
It's less than £40k p/a assuming a 37 hour working work, hardly a king's ransom, and I imagine chosen for illustrative purposes more than anything.
I agree though, it's people like Paul and the layout owners who I'd argue have lost significantly more than the actual hosting club. I would hope the funds are distributed appropriately.
According to the Metro, Rod Stewart has donated £10,000 and asked Roger Daltry and Jools Holland to stump up similar amounts. I knew Rod and Roger were enthusiasts, but didn't know about Jools Holland.
Good on 'em.
Quote from: njee20 on May 21, 2019, 11:13:17 AM
It's less than £40k p/a assuming a 37 hour working work, hardly a king's ransom, and I imagine chosen for illustrative purposes more than anything.
I agree though, it's people like Paul and the layout owners who I'd argue have lost significantly more than the actual hosting club. I would hope the funds are distributed appropriately.
or well over the national average and nearly twice my before taxes pay. However, that £20an hour will have to include over heads such as running equipment, payments for taxes and pensions which would normally be covered by an employer. Plus a myriad of other extra expenses.
Quote from: Malc on May 21, 2019, 11:25:05 AM
According to the Metro, Rod Stewart has donated £10,000 and asked Roger Daltry and Jools Holland to stump up similar amounts. I knew Rod and Roger were enthusiasts, but didn't know about Jools Holland.
Good on 'em.
Didn't you see the Jools RM, Malc?
Quote from: The Q on May 21, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Quote from: njee20 on May 21, 2019, 11:13:17 AM
It's less than £40k p/a assuming a 37 hour working work, hardly a king's ransom, and I imagine chosen for illustrative purposes more than anything.
I agree though, it's people like Paul and the layout owners who I'd argue have lost significantly more than the actual hosting club. I would hope the funds are distributed appropriately.
or well over the national average and nearly twice my before taxes pay. However, that £20an hour will have to include over heads such as running equipment, payments for taxes and pensions which would normally be covered by an employer. Plus a myriad of other extra expenses.
I think more likely it was a figure plucked largely out of thin air to illustrate the point, but I know what you mean.
I keep reading this thread and I get the impression that some people are doubting the fund raising campaign, and how it will be used. I agree that the funds should be distributed equitably to all those that incurred losses. And to be honest, the sum's raised may not cover it in terms of people's time spent. Don't look at the lump sum but rather focus on what actually went into making all these things. We all do this and we know that this hobby - like many others - is time and resource intensive. I just don't think we should be making suggestions that seem to doubt the fund raising efforts and how it will be used....
Instead we should be focusing on those useless _ _ _ _ _ that caused all this unnecessary and senseless destruction. We should be hold them to account, and if they are 'youths' as reported, their parents who have legal responsibility for them. There must be consequences for such graven destruction...not just of property but people's hopes and dreams.
Just my thoughts.
@Doc Pye (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7313)
Sorry, but we've already locked a thread in which various punishments were suggested and to whom they should be applied. The youths concerned have been released on bail and the collections started so we'll have to wait to see what the justice services hand down.
Let's not bypass the huge result so far by going over old ground please.
Just to clarify, my 'rates' of Doc Pye's post are for his first para.
All
I thought long and hard about sharing this link (and if mods don't approve, I apologise), but on balance I want to, because:
1) I sympathise with the headteacher. I know a bit (a bit) about education in modern Britain and believe she has got herself a right hornets nest here. Imagine your school being thrust into the limelight in this way?
2) There is a ray of hope to be found in it. The description of her students reaction is encouraging.
Overall I feel it is a well worded and considered response.
I have seen some responses on various online platforms that, whilst perhaps understandable, don't quite sit well with me. As a civilised nation we are surely defined by how we react to adversity.
https://www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/news/vandalism-of-model-railway-head-teachers-letter-to-parents-9071205/?fbclid=iwar2vehxgjfaf58tzoagiysfiwhsu4vjaq-agtszdeaga0rxcfj3wjx1xyiw (https://www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/news/vandalism-of-model-railway-head-teachers-letter-to-parents-9071205/?fbclid=iwar2vehxgjfaf58tzoagiysfiwhsu4vjaq-agtszdeaga0rxcfj3wjx1xyiw)
Regards
Skyline2uk
An excellent response from the principal and students. :thumbsup:
As a retired high school teacher, it is exactly what I would expect of most young people.
Would agree with points raised. The headteacher did what she did with dignity and a purpose. Good on the pupils and hopefully we can add positive comments
A good response from the Head Teacher, and hopefully the good students and staff will work with those who were effected by the vandalism.
On that note, while I always treat the Sun newspaper with a degree of skepticism (not for its political views, as all the papers have them) but for its journalism...but this recent post caught my eye:
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9135671/model-railway-destruction-boys-vodka/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/9135671/model-railway-destruction-boys-vodka/)
Now if the 'Mother' of one of the vandal youth is legit...and as I said, I am not sure...well, the comments speak volumes what is wrong with the world we live in. In reading the 'Mother's' quotes, the whole story doesn't make any sense. Four boys get 1 bottle of Vodka to celebrate the end of their GCSEs, then break into a school to crash for the night, and then end up deliberately destroying the railway exhibits and traders stands (over a period of time, as this didn't take a few minutes)! Okay, the input of the alcohol is meant to be some sort of mitigating circumstance...please...if you drink you accept your actions. Also, 1 bottle between four 15-16 year old males these days wouldn't necessarily get them drunk and regardless doesn't excuse any such horrendous behavior.
The 'Mother's' story goes on with the actions of the parent to taking away the vandal's game console and phone...oh, and ground him...and then speak of how his own dad couldn't speak to him for days. Really...that's it. Is this the state of play today??? Why didn't the parents call the police when their son didn't come on that night or check in? Wow, what parenting these days...
The 'Mother's' saga continues making it clear that her criminal son is only really concerned about how his wanton destruction and illegal acts will effect his life and future. The line about writing a letter of apology just stinks of being imposed on him by parents and not much value.
Again, not sure this is all legit reporting but if it is, well, we as a society are really messed up.
The mods have already issued a warning here - one more strike and wel will lock the thread..
The issues now are what is the club going to do with the money ( they are talking about supporting other clubs / shows,), and how will they safeguard their windfall ( and cope with the begging letters.).
There is the old adage , that there's is no such thing as bad publicity - news thAt locos could be worth £8k may attract a new sort of visitor...
However it may help promote interest in the hobby.
N
So I just checked and the amount raised was £102,188, which shows how many people felt for this tragic story. From that amount you should take off at least 10% that goes to the website running the campaign and you have around £92K left. Given the nature of the damage done to displays and traders stands and stock, will this really be enough to cover it all? I am not counting the time involved, or the fact that those involved may not have the time, or will, to redo their work due to age and other considerations. For example, the PD Marsh example cited was for a considerable loss, and the figures given were modest I think. Hence, if the money is really distributed to the affected parties based on loss I am not so sure they will have enough.
In any event, I am glad to have given something and wish the club and traders involved, as well as the good staff and students at the Academy, can overcome this dire situation.
Now back to talking about making, fixing, etc trains! :bounce:
As has been discussed the damaged items should be covered by the insurance (either from the club or the individuals), indeed the club's already had a payout, but I still maintain they're not the big loser in this. I doubt more than a couple of the exhibits belong to the club, with other clubs, companies and individuals losing out equally.
I'm also not sure that effectively acting as an insurance company and paying out the raised funds to the parties who have suffered losses is their role either. How do you do that? What value on time, what's worth more, trade stock or a layout? Do you do it proportionately once everyone has submitted a claim? What about their own insurance claims etc etc? As has been said the bulk of the 'cost' attached to items actually relates to time. If I considered my hourly rate of pay and assigned that to my layout then it would be worth a small fortune, despite being rubbish, but that doesn't really work, nor would having that sum of money actually replace anything.
I actually think the club are in a slightly invidious position, they now have a huge sum of money, but what do they do with it without appearing unfair or biased?
It would be normal for a club to get it's own stuff in the night before a show as well as anyone else who wants to.
Now they may have been lucky and had their stuff in the other hall. But it would easily be possible for them to have had two layouts , a secondhand stall and may be a club advertising stand already assembled in the hall.
Yes I'm not saying they've not lost anything, as I said, I'm sure a couple of the exhibits were theirs. But that's about it. But they've got £100k, plus an insurance payout. They don't have to give any of that to everyone that's lost stuff. To me that doesn't really feel right though, which is what I mean.
As to the layouts, the money raised will allow the clubs/individuals to order all the wood, track, cable & electrical bits, buildings, rolling stock & locos, and scenic materials they need to rebuild without restriction. I am sure the layouts will be well photographed so reproductions can be produced without having to worry about where the money is going to come from.
Yes it is heartbreaking to see you hard work destroyed by stupidity but, to try and apply a positive spin it does give them the opportunity to build even better versions of their layouts and, who knows, perhaps it may encourage some of the kids from the school to get involved in the hobby.
Quote from: Lawrence on May 24, 2019, 01:27:54 PM
..
perhaps it may encourage some of the kids from the school to get involved in the hobby.
Now that really would be a silver lining! :beers:
Okay, now I am confused...I thought the fund was there to cover everyone at the show that incurred loss/damage? Am I right/wrong on this account?
@Doc Pye (https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=profile;u=7313) I think the gofundme stuff is an attempt by the community to express their solidarity and to try and help out.
The insurance cover should be initial source of "official" financial recompense.
I'm quite sure that is what the intention is but some poor soul has to decide who gets what slice of the fund and I don't envy them that task.
Until something solid is heard from the organising club or press, anything we come up with is just speculation.
Quote from: Doc Pye on May 24, 2019, 03:38:07 PM
Okay, now I am confused...I thought the fund was there to cover everyone at the show that incurred loss/damage? Am I right/wrong on this account?
To be accurate, this is what they are raising funds for :
'Weʼre raising £75,000 to Help Market Deeping Model Railway Club recover from vandalism'
They go on ...
'Market Deeping Model Railway Club needs your help to rebuild. We have held our annual show in Stamford for the last 12 years. Months of planning goes into the show and years of work goes into building the layout. Imagine our horror and grief when we were greeted by this scene of absolute devastation on the morning of 18th May 2019.
Some of the models on display are irreplaceable and whilst money cannot possibly replace the hours of painstaking effort that has been so wantonly destroyed, we would ask that you make a donation, no matter how small, to help us get back on our feet. Please accept our thanks in advance.
We originally hoped for £500 to fund some of our rebuilding costs. The response has been out of this world and overwhelming. We are truly grateful for everything that has been donated both money and gifts. We weren't the only ones to suffer and our thoughts are turning to those others affected.
Brian Norris, Secretary, Market Deeping Model Railway Club'
Nowhere do they talk about covering loss or damage incurred, instead they talk about rebuilding and getting back on their feet.
And they also say that it's just for the club, with the addendum adding "our thoughts are turning to those others affected", which is not the same as 'we're going to spread the funds among all exhibitors2.
I think a lot of people think they're donating to help all of those who lost things, but they're not. Obviously the club could distribute the funds, but that's not what they intended (which is fine). This is why I think it's an invidious position. If they sit on all that money and say "well it did say it was just for us" that likely to drive some ill will among those who thought they were donating to generally help everyone sort stuff out, whilst distributing it is fraught with issues.
Quote from: Doc Pye on May 24, 2019, 03:38:07 PM
Okay, now I am confused...I thought the fund was there to cover everyone at the show that incurred loss/damage? Am I right/wrong on this account?
I think the point is, as yet we don't know... The Club are yet to reveal what their intentions are. (not that I'd expect them to know full details yet)
If properly organised all material losses should be covered by insurance, so this crowd-funding ought not to be needed for that...
QuoteI think a lot of people think they're donating to help all of those who lost things, but they're not.
Yep, I was one of them...and many others no doubt. Hopefully they will do the right thing and spread the wealth.
I donated my few pennies early in the game and was then, and still am, happy for them to spend it on cream cakes to cheer themselves up. I hope they do something like that and I will think that's where my pennies went, and that they were well donated. As for the rest of the dosh. Others can worry over that.
Cheers
Quote from: CliveH on May 25, 2019, 04:33:12 PM
I donated my few pennies early in the game and was then, and still am, happy for them to spend it on cream cakes to cheer themselves up. I hope they do something like that and I will think that's where my pennies went, and that they were well donated. As for the rest of the dosh. Others can worry over that.
Cheers
Couldn't agree more. :thumbsup:
A statement from the MDMRC has been posted here
http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/ (http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/)
They are setting up a charitable trust and gearing up for a 2 day show next year, with added security
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7698085/Model-railway-display-smashed-gang-thugs-ready-help-Rod-Stewart.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7698085/Model-railway-display-smashed-gang-thugs-ready-help-Rod-Stewart.html)
Rebuild layout will be at Warley
Quote from: Railwaygun on November 19, 2019, 01:48:27 AM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7698085/Model-railway-display-smashed-gang-thugs-ready-help-Rod-Stewart.html (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7698085/Model-railway-display-smashed-gang-thugs-ready-help-Rod-Stewart.html)
Rebuild layout will be at Warley
They've done well to get it restored in that time. Obviously the money raised will have helped but the thing most needed in any build or rebuild is time - which is harder to get, especially time with the skills required.