N Gauge Forum

General Category => N Gauge Discussion => Topic started by: guest311 on July 13, 2015, 11:21:25 PM

Title: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 13, 2015, 11:21:25 PM
I have a question, although as it's under rule 1 it's more a case of peoples thoughts.....

IF fish was still being landed on the west coast of Scotland in the mid 1980s and ........

IF it was still being moved by rail ........

what wagons would be used ?

blue spot fish vans ?

40' reefer containers on container flats ??

or what ???

thinking of the Kyle line to / through Inverness and then onwards  :hmmm:

suggestions ........

cheers

alan
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: D1042 Western Princess on July 14, 2015, 05:42:47 AM
What if? Always an interesting question; below is my attempt at an answer.
Given that when the old 6 wheeled milk tankers were withdrawn in the late 197s or early 1980s they built new tankers (hardly, if ever used, but they were built) is there not a chance that new fish vans would have been constructed just for this traffic?
They would probably have been based on the design of the old fish van but, presumably, with a longer wheelbase, maybe even bogies, for higher speed, refrigerated and air braked.
I honestly doubt container traffic for the cargo as container flats tend to be semi permanently coupled sets of five (or so) and I think it unlikely a train of that length would be needed.
Of course all this is speculation but, as I said, those new milk tankers were built so who knows?

Best wishes,
Greg.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 14, 2015, 06:03:55 PM
hi Greg,

thanks for your suggestion

:hmmm:

VGA with a chiller unit in one end ?

alan
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: joe cassidy on July 14, 2015, 06:35:43 PM
I believe that fish was shipped south from Aberdeen in containers in the 1980s.

I say that because I work for a paper company and we had some complaints at the time about our paper smelling a bit fishy as it travelled in the same containers (not with the fish but on subsequent journeys).

Best regards,


Joe
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 14, 2015, 08:52:54 PM
many thanks for that Joe,

perhaps the paper should have been used to wrap fish and chips  :smiley-laughing:

:sorrysign:

alan

ps just had a thought .....

I've got several 40' MOL refrigerated containers on semitrailers, and they are white.

looks like a go with the T-cut to remove the lettering on the sides and I might be on track to a rake on an FGA+FFA+FFA+FGA set  :hmmm:

should they have a blue spot on them ??
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: PostModN66 on July 14, 2015, 09:04:03 PM
Just in practical terms why not use the Dapol Cargowaggons?  You could make up a nice imaginary livery, in the same way that the Taunton Cider or Blue Circle ones were done.

Cheers  Jon  :)
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: D1042 Western Princess on July 14, 2015, 09:13:07 PM
Quote from: joe cassidy on July 14, 2015, 06:35:43 PM
I believe that fish was shipped south from Aberdeen in containers in the 1980s.

I say that because I work for a paper company and we had some complaints at the time about our paper smelling a bit fishy as it travelled in the same containers (not with the fish but on subsequent journeys).

Best regards,


Joe

Perhaps, but would there have been enough fish to justify container traffic from the West Highland line or the Kyle of Lochalsh which were my thoughts.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: D1042 Western Princess on July 14, 2015, 09:15:06 PM
Quote from: class37025 on July 14, 2015, 08:52:54 PM

perhaps the paper should have been used to wrap fish and chips  :smiley-laughing:



:D  I love your thinking!  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: Chris on July 14, 2015, 09:23:14 PM
Alan do I detect another of your wacky commission projects heading my way????  ???  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 14, 2015, 10:12:20 PM
Quote from: Chris on July 14, 2015, 09:23:14 PM
Alan do I detect another of your wacky commission projects heading my way????  ???  :smiley-laughing:

:hmmm:

well you have risen to every challenge so far  :thumbsup:

thinking of PostModN66's suggestion, would it be feasible for cargowaggons to a. be insulated, and b. be fitted with a refrigeration unit at one end ?

following that idea I'd assume a white scheme, basically an up to date blue spot fish van.

so, go on Chris, break out the photoshop  >:D

alan
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 14, 2015, 10:48:22 PM
to add to my 'fleet' of the LSMs to become ferries, and tugs to donate superstructures to the ferries, I've recently acquired 3 of the Revell 'Ross Jackal' trawler kits.

I don't know what sort of weight of catch would have been landed from one of these size ships in the mid 80's, but that was the trigger for this question.

alan
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: Papyrus on July 15, 2015, 09:24:05 AM
Quote from: class37025 on July 14, 2015, 10:48:22 PM
to add to my 'fleet' of the LSMs to become ferries, and tugs to donate superstructures to the ferries, I've recently acquired 3 of the Revell 'Ross Jackal' trawler kits.

Do you need another one? I have one that is surplus to requirements. It is the 'Arctic Corsair', but appears to be the same model. PM me if you are interested.

Cheers,

Chris
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 15, 2015, 10:22:54 AM
looks like the fishing fleet is growing  :no:

unless of course I build a sodding great mast on it and call it Radio McCaroline  :smiley-laughing:
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: D1042 Western Princess on July 15, 2015, 05:12:51 PM
Quote from: class37025 on July 15, 2015, 10:22:54 AM
looks like the fishing fleet is growing 

There used to be quite a few kits of ships around that size not so long ago, along with the fishing boat a coastal tanker, lightship and (I think) small cargo ship, all to roughly N gauge.

If they are bringing the fishing boat back then maybe the others? Given the popularity of small harbours as justification for layouts I am surprised there are not more ship kits like these available.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: bluedepot on July 15, 2015, 09:32:45 PM
what refrigerated vans were there / are there on british rail?

maybe vga could have been used and fitted out...


tim

Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 15, 2015, 10:02:23 PM
I did wonder about the VGA, but is it not the same idea as the cargowaggon, ie the whole side opens ?

I'm assuming that for refrigerated stock you'd want doors more like a container that seal and retain the cold.

am I right in thinking that the blue spot fish vans were just ice cooled, and so limited in the length of journey, or would require re-icing ?

I assume that they were also limited in speed, and possibly vacuum braked rather than air braked, so might be limited in the locos they could run with.

:hmmm:

at this rate the fish will be going off on the dockside, or there will be a large increase in HGVs on the roads  >:(
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: T-TRAK_Andrew on July 16, 2015, 12:11:40 AM
G'day Alan, For next generation refrigerated wagon would some of the European long wheel base wagons be suitable? Being 1:160 they may make UK clearances at 1:148. Also are there any commercial European refrigerated wagons that resemble those used in cross Channel service. You could justify them being recycled or refurbished for UK service.
Just a thought, Andrew G.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: JasonBz on July 16, 2015, 12:25:16 AM
Interfrigo refrigerated vans would be reasonably possible - They did run in the UK in the 80s ; and quite a lot of British caught fish goes to Continental markets.
Ive seen quite a few Spanish registered lorries on the quayside at Padstow, for example.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: guest311 on July 16, 2015, 08:00:33 AM
many thanks for those suggestions, I'll have a look to see what is available in the way of Interfrigo wagons.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: ohlavache on July 17, 2015, 12:46:56 PM
Hello.
I had a short look at Interfrigo wagons in 1:160.
I've found these four:
- Arnold 4563
(http://spurn.ch/images/Gue-Wagen/Arnold-4563-Kuehlwagen-SBB-weiss.jpg)

- Brawa 67100.2 (but you would have to remove SBB's logo)
(http://spurn.ch/images/Gue-Wagen/Brawa-67100-2-Kuehlwagen-SBB-weiss.jpg)

- Ibertren 6389
(http://spurn.ch/images/Gue-Wagen/Ibertren-6389-Kuehlwagen-FS-INTER-FRIGO.jpg)

- Minitrix 13248
(https://www.train-store.ch/catalog/images/OC3113.jpg)

I hope this helps.
Have a nice week-end.
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: DELETED on July 23, 2015, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: class37025 on July 14, 2015, 10:48:22 PM
to add to my 'fleet' of the LSMs to become ferries, and tugs to donate superstructures to the ferries, I've recently acquired 3 of the Revell 'Ross Jackal' trawler kits.

I don't know what sort of weight of catch would have been landed from one of these size ships in the mid 80's, but that was the trigger for this question.

alan

A coincidence but P18 of this months Model Rail has a one pager on the old Arctic Corsair kit.  I had one of these kits many years ago when I got into R/C model boats as a kid.  It was potentially just big enough for R/C on my tiny budget but back then you had to make all the running gear yourself and I think I just gave up.  Nowadays you don't have to make your own mini-propshafts and propellers it's all off the shelf cheap enough.  I was looking on the net about this class of boats though. I thought it would have been easy enough to work out the "haul" from the figures but I can't work it out so far -and it bugs me because as a nav. architect I should be able to!  I'm used to much bigger / different boats, I suppose if 20Te was landed then it's still maybe allot of 'faash (doric accent) at the end of the day going by TV programmes though.

I was looking at interfrigo wagons as I never heard of them before-there's plenty of pics of them used in the UK on google (some pics on RMweb also) and they seem quite diverse by design so maybe some room for some custom modding?
Title: Re: mid 1980s fish movements - under rule 1
Post by: D1042 Western Princess on July 24, 2015, 07:31:45 AM
Quote from: RST on July 23, 2015, 11:58:07 PM
Quote from: class37025 on July 14, 2015, 10:48:22 PM
to add to my 'fleet' of the LSMs to become ferries, and tugs to donate superstructures to the ferries, I've recently acquired 3 of the Revell 'Ross Jackal' trawler kits.

I don't know what sort of weight of catch would have been landed from one of these size

I suppose if 20Te was landed then it's still maybe allot of 'faash (doric accent) at the end of the day going by TV programmes though.


I presume 20Te means 20 tons, but in metric?  :confused2:

Don't forget that the EU Common Fisheries Policy dictates the maximum catch, not the capacity of the vessel.
Sorry to get political, but it is a relevant fact in this case.