Evenin' All:
Another newbie question...
I have a handful of coaches and a Minitrix Warship and they all get along fine with coupling.
The key point is that if shunted together, even at at a pretty slow speed - they couple nicely. :D
The other day I got my first wagon as a present from my daughter. Farish ventilated wagon. Brand new. When I approach it with anything at all, it just runs playfully away down the track (does not couple). :hmmm:
I realize this can be due to (1) the lightness of the wagon and (2) the willingness of its coupler to couple and indeed (3) the willingness of the coupler of the other loco or rolling stock to couple.
Of course one thinks "perhaps I need to add weights...?" but... bless my soul, that means that I have something new which needs to be modified in order to work...? :confused1:
Is it just back luck on my part or is this just... the way it is...? :'(
Many thanks for any input.
- Jeff
Hi Jeff,
Have you tried turning the wagon round to use the other coupling?
I would imagine you have done, have you checked the height of the two couplings involved?
Perhaps if you could take some pictures of the problem they may help get you a solution ;)
cheers John.
My first thought was the lightness of one of those vans, especially if it's on it's own. Have you tried shunting other rolling stock up to it by hand and observing what goes on? Get several more wagons in a rake to add weight and solve the problem ;D
I tend to find Rapido to Rapido coupling quite reliable when shunting up to a stationary bit of rolling stock, but NEM to NEM or NEM to Rapido coupling poorer.
Bearing in mind the need to stay totally serious on this.
This happens with most of my wagons at some time or another. Is the coupling pointing in the right direction - or slightly to the left or right? Is the coupling not flexing up and down so just hits the attempted mating coupling head on - and won't ride up or down over it?
This is going to happen every day with RTR wagons and standard couplings.
Try adding weight to your wagons. For open wagons a load of some kind helps (I use ten commandments loads a lot, they look good and weigh quite a bit), for box vans a lump of Bluetack or similar placed inside can help. For very free wheeling stock add a small piece of foam (pan scourer or similar) between the wagon floor and one axle.
Cheers
Dave
Quote from: ParkeNd on February 24, 2014, 07:06:50 PM
Bearing in mind the need to stay totally serious on this.
Absolutely. This topic is on the brink of going completely off the rails with tomfoolery.
I have added some 'brakes' to my wagons so they have a little resistance and don't run QUITE so easily = just add a small piece of foam under one axle. You can experiment with the size of the piece of foam to achieve the right amount of resistance. I found it works extremely well for me - although I have replaced all my horrible rapido couplings with Dapol easi-shunt ones . . .
I may occasionally have been known to resort to the finger of God...
It's amazing how the springs in Rapido couplers can conspire to catapult a wagon at a remarkable speed...
Sorry, but none of these answers is correct. it is like any other youngster, it lacks commitment. Bill.
Quote from: ozzie Bill. on February 25, 2014, 05:06:51 AM
Sorry, but none of these answers is correct. it is like any other youngster, it lacks commitment. Bill.
Bill
I resemble that remark. My children committed themselves into making me a very old grump man at an early age.
Kind regards
Geoff
:laugh3: :claphappy: :laugh:
Firstly - thanks for all the feedback - this august body constitutes a truly remarkable resource. Getting replies is one thing, but getting them so quickly is exceptional.
Well...
...here are my findings and answers and thoughts...
- I thought about weights and so I put 1 ounce of lead on top of the wagon. Yes - I know that is not where it goes and that the centre of gravity would be nothing like it would if it were inside the wagon, but I could not see how to get the roof off and did not want to damage my lovely pristine first wagon. Anyway, it made no difference. Still just shoved off when approached by another coupling. :confused1:
- I have taken photos of the couplings and hopefully that will help. It appears that the couplers of both ends of both the Warship and Lima (I think) coaches are perhaps a few molecules lower than the Farish couplers (at both ends), but where do we go from here? If I adjust something to lower the Farish coupler (how such a minute adjustment could be made and permanently made I cannot imagine) then this potentially makes it dissimilar from the next identical wagon I buy to extend the goods rake at Preston End ;) (or whatever I call the layout). Or... do I try to adjust the older Warship on the basis that being older, it is unlike the modern standard? Better to change 1 loco than 50 wagons...? If so - I hope the coaches still couple... :hmmm:
- Thanks for the tip about the sponge on the axles to slow it down - sounds like very precise work! :goggleeyes:
- I've heard about alternative systems but was disappointed when around about 1994 I tried out some American products which although otherwise excellent :thumbsup: included some stock with the Kadee coupling system. You certainly could couple nicely and then uncouple over the magnet between the tracks, but if the train was running at a scale speed below say 15 mph there was a fighting chance that some of the wagons would uncouple all by themselves as they went over the magnet. To me this is one of the very worst possible side effects to have to deal with. It's one thing to worry about couplers when you are trying to couple or uncouple stock - one can almost expect a certain amount of fiddling in the fiddle yard as it were ;) - but uncoupling when you are just driving a train? Please... no....! :'( I know that one can dig deeper into the pocket and buy electromagnets, but... this is starting to get serious...! :confused1:
- If I put the van on the end of a coach and then approach the van with the Warship - it couples fine. It seems the coach produces more oomph than an ounce of lead. This is fine, but regrettable that coupling cannot be done on a single wagon... :(
- Regarding the left/right alignment of the couplers - I hope the pictures will help, but they look pretty reasonable to me.
- Of course - to be methodical - I can't wait to simply get another identical wagon and try to get the two of them coupled. If they do not, I am puzzled. For does that not mean that rolling stock is being made that simply does not function as one might expect? Or is the expectation that they will couple without extra... adjustments, or weights, or sponges, or replacing the couplings, or adding extra wagons... unreasonable?
Here are the pictures...
(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/4713982/N%20Gauge/Couplers.png)
I have ten Dapol 6-wheel milk tanks and every single one of them will run away when trying to couple to a single wagon or even a pair them coupled together. Just a fact of life I'm afraid :( If they made the wagons heavier to counteract this then they'd get complaints that a long rake of them is too heavy to be pulled by an N gauge loco ;)
Only remedy is to use one of the methods above - personally I've gone for the foam 'brake' on the axle :thumbsup:
Paul
Quote from: Sprintex on February 25, 2014, 09:39:58 AM
I have ten Dapol 6-wheel milk tanks and every single one of them will run away when trying to couple to a single wagon or even a pair them coupled together. Just a fact of life I'm afraid :( If they made the wagons heavier to counteract this then they'd get complaints that a long rake of them is too heavy to be pulled by an N gauge loco ;)
Only remedy is to use one of the methods above - personally I've gone for the foam 'brake' on the axle :thumbsup:
Paul
I can imagine that this is the reality of the situation :-\ - heavier would seem to make sense, but then you have to have shorter rakes of rolling stock. Do you glue the foam or... what...?
Thanks Paul!
I have many wagons that won't couple even if you put a fingertip into each of them and ram them together. Even physically lifting one or the other and trying to thread one coupling onto the other won't work.
Life is just like that. We have to learn to live with it. They are toys. This isn't really the LMS or the GWR.
Quote from: ParkeNd on February 25, 2014, 10:12:49 AM
They are toys.
Blasphemy, you shall hence forth be banished to the land of delprado
Quote from: AndyGif on February 25, 2014, 10:28:35 AM
Quote from: ParkeNd on February 25, 2014, 10:12:49 AM
They are toys.
Blasphemy, you shall hence forth be banished to the land of delprado
...........there to stand for eternity in silence >:D
Coupling to a single wagon with a sprung rapido coupler will always be a problem - this is nothing new. The non sprung Peco Elsie version of the rapido is better in this respect, but still not always reliable.
One thing you could try is reducing the length of the coupler spring to the absolute minimum required to keep is sitting straight - this will reduce the resistance to the coupler raising. Probably not a cure but may help quite a bit. Good thing there is that if you have problems you can replace the spring and return the wagon to original condition.
The other option is to convert to some form of delayed action coupling system, but this is a fair bit of work. I've always preferred to keep rapidos for ease of compatability and selling on of stock if I decide to do so.
Cheers,
Alan
I think the thing that puzzles me the most is that I simply imagined that one might expect that they would couple and that if they don't, they are surely fundamentally at fault.
It seems to me that there are many sides to this and that one can as it were have A and B and C perhaps, but one has to give up on D and E in that case.
If the wagons were heavier that would have to help - but then the loco will struggle with a long rake. :doh:
If the couplers had an even lighter touch - they would be more fragile and cost more. :'(
I suppose I was coming from the viewpoint of my old childhood days of Triang-Hornby when you could shove those little wagons together with a little nudge and they would couple every time (erm... I think)! Yes - then we have the downside of how to uncouple the little wretches... and the look of the couplers... :hmmm:
Even in larger scales, and even using Kaydees, coupling is still not 100% reliable, and unwanted uncoupling is always a hazard. Especially with 4-wheel wagons, on curves, at gradient transitions, or tank locos with pony trucks.
I was wondering - is it common practice to have a variety of different types of couplers on a layout? I can imagine that there may for example be rakes of coaches that don't need to get separated that often and this may indeed be prototypical (sorry - I don't know).
Also one can see the fun in shunting ::) - I look forward to it - but even then I supposed some trucks could perhaps more or less stay together?
In this way one might go for super-fine precision (£££) couplers on just those wagons / coaches that matter?
Next - is there a site or page that shows how to swap out Rapido couplers for something else? Is it easy to do?
Finally - now I'm obsessed :hmmm: - is there a site or page that shows how to get the roof off this Farish ventilated van (or similar)? Is it easy to do?
Quote from: JeffPreston on February 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
Finally - now I'm obsessed :hmmm: - is there a site or page that shows how to get the roof off this Farish ventilated van (or similar)? Is it easy to do?
It should simply pull off. It's designed to slot into the body, but on older models there are certainly no clips or screws to prevent it coming off easily.
Quote from: JeffPreston on February 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
I was wondering - is it common practice to have a variety of different types of couplers on a layout? I can imagine that there may for example be rakes of coaches that don't need to get separated that often and this may indeed be prototypical (sorry - I don't know).
Hi Jeff,
I run three types of coupling; Rapido, Dapol dummy knuckle and Dapol magnetic "easy shunt". I also try to use stock with NEM pockets (either from the manufacturer or converted myself) as this permits easy changing of couplings.
Where practical the Dapol dummy knuckles go between coaches and DMU vehicles as they give closer coupling and are less prone to self-uncoupling. They are ideal for "semi-fixed" rakes where I'm not planning on changing the coaches in a rake in a running session.
I'm slowly working through my stock adding easy shunt couplings to all of my locos, to the outer ends of brake coaches and to certain wagons which will be formed into sets. Brake vans get easy shunt couplings at both ends so they can be attached to either end of a train. I love the ability to do hands free uncoupling with the easy shunt couplings and I'm glad I've adopted them.
Everything else is Rapido.
Having a mix of couplings does mean that you can't run every combination of loco and stock but I've tried to ensure that stuff that would run together can do so.
Quote from: JeffPreston on February 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
Next - is there a site or page that shows how to swap out Rapido couplers for something else? Is it easy to do?
I have a feeling there is a section on here for coupling issues where people have shown their work at converting to different couplings. Hopefully someone will be kind enough to provide a link.
Converting couplings depends on what you want to do and what stock you have. Anything modern with NEM pockets it is just a matter of pulling out the old coupling and pushing in a replacement. Dapol does NEM pocket conversion packs, which reqire some cutting and glueing (and a bit of bravery) to replace older style sprung couplings with a socket to take your choice of coupler. I'm not the most skilled modeller in the world and I managed it but I'd suggest practicing on an un-loved wagon or buying a Peco wagon kit to hack about before taking a knife to your most prized stock.
Whoa - thanks John - lots of information there and a frank discussion of the subject. I think I can see myself heading in a similar direction. Cheers! :beers:
Quote from: Pete33 on February 25, 2014, 03:47:53 PM
Quote from: JeffPreston on February 25, 2014, 02:07:48 PM
Finally - now I'm obsessed :hmmm: - is there a site or page that shows how to get the roof off this Farish ventilated van (or similar)? Is it easy to do?
It should simply pull off. It's designed to slot into the body, but on older models there are certainly no clips or screws to prevent it coming off easily.
Thanks Pete - I'll have another look at the rascal! :thumbsup:
Quote from: JeffPreston on February 25, 2014, 09:17:17 AM- Thanks for the tip about the sponge on the axles to slow it down - sounds like very precise work! :goggleeyes:
I have not done it very precisely at all :no:. I simply shoved a small piece of foam under the axle and saw how it rolled - then adjusted the foam size so that it ran on its own (so as not to be too much drag on the loco uphill for example) but not as far as without the foam.
(http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3708/12027455083_75b405a265_c.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/105731862@N02/12027455083/)
IMG_2488 (http://www.flickr.com/photos/105731862@N02/12027455083/#) by PinkNosedPenguin (http://www.flickr.com/people/105731862@N02/), on Flickr
As you can see I am using Dapol easi-shunt couplings and have found these to be a VAST improvement on the standard rapido ones. I can uncouple over a magnet (real hands-free shunting!) and couple up without chasing the wagon halfway round my layout :D. The foam helped with the coupling (but also prevented some rather embarrassing unintentional uncouplings when driving forwards over the magnets! They are a bit pricey, but very easy to fit if your rolling stock has NEM pockets (like the photo above) or the Dapol conversion kit allows you to glue pockets onto older stock. I am fitting them to each end (only) of rakes of coaches, but to every wagon so I have complete flexibility when shunting.
Quote from: ParkeNd on February 25, 2014, 10:12:49 AM
I have many wagons that won't couple even if you put a fingertip into each of them and ram them together. Even physically lifting one or the other and trying to thread one coupling onto the other won't work.
Life is just like that. We have to learn to live with it.
Not with these easi-shunt couplings you don't . . .
Whoa PinkNosedPenguin!
Many thanks!
Excellent practical advice and illustrated too - just what I needed. :beers:
This is starting to take shape now - some EZ shunt and others not - sounds like a plan. :thumbsup: I really, really want to be able to play "Shunting Puzzles" without the hand of God needing to be called in. :thumbsdown:
Easi shunt is the way forward if you want to play hands free shunting. My office layout is made for shunting stuff about on
N gauge hands free shunting (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDvrf4ofE74#)
I have some other stuff about Dapol easi shunts on my youtube channel and I have recently done NEM conversion to several items of rolling stock. I was mindful enough to take pictures so I can break it down and show people it happening in action! I'll probably add it onto one of my existing NEM threads but link it up here if this thread's still going in a few days.
EDIT: here you go. Fitting NEM pockets (or 'How I successfully went through the change...')
http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19829.msg202805#msg202805 (http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19829.msg202805#msg202805)
Thanks Dan! :thumbsup:
Looks like it works for certain. Any problems with unwanted uncoupling? :-\
Quote from: JeffPreston on February 26, 2014, 09:29:49 AM
Looks like it works for certain. Any problems with unwanted uncoupling? :-\
None with my 4 wheel wagons or bogie stock, even running at low speed over the Kato magnetic track at slow, slow speeds.
I've had some random uncoupling with a really light, free running BG which is coupled to the end of a fast moving parcels train via easi shunts. This uncouples over a hump in the track I've put in deliberately (and badly) so I would say it is most certainly the fault of the builder and operator, not the coupler (or even the track; Kato stuff is lovely.)
Quote from: martink on February 25, 2014, 11:41:06 AM
Even in larger scales, and even using Kaydees, coupling is still not 100% reliable, and unwanted uncoupling is always a hazard. Especially with 4-wheel wagons, on curves, at gradient transitions, or tank locos with pony trucks.
Even on the 12in to the Foot railway couplings do not always remain coupled or couple correctly....
Prototype for everything lol.
Cheers, Timmo