I am trying to increase my rollingstock. Can someone please tell me what is a CCT van? What do the letters stand for and what are they used for? :thankyousign:Mickey 26.
Quote from: mickey26 on January 12, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
I am trying to increase my rollingstock. Can someone please tell me what is a CCT van? What do the letters stand for and what are they used for? :thankyousign:Mickey 26.
Covered Carriage Truck.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covered_Carriage_Truck (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covered_Carriage_Truck)
They were used for all sorts of duties...particularly parcels.
Quote from: mickey26 on January 12, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
I am trying to increase my rollingstock. Can someone please tell me what is a CCT van? What do the letters stand for and what are they used for? :thankyousign:Mickey 26.
Try this link :thumbsup:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covered_Carriage_Truck (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covered_Carriage_Truck)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/37/GreatCentralRailwayE94286.JPG/300px-GreatCentralRailwayE94286.JPG)
Quote from: mickey26 on January 12, 2014, 04:18:03 PM
I am trying to increase my rollingstock. Can someone please tell me what is a CCT van? What do the letters stand for and what are they used for? :thankyousign:Mickey 26.
Covered Carriage Truck
Way back when posh people used to have their personal horse carriage conveyed with them, and their servants and horses. For this open flat wagons called 'carriage trucks' were designed.
Carriage trucks got used to carry everything from his Lordships carriage to farm machinery and even artillery pieces.
Over time covered ones appeared with end loading doors 'covered carriage truck' (CCT).
CCT normally implies the vehicle has wide end loading doors so you could in theory drive a car onto it while a "van" typically only loads from the side.
Alan
Thanks Alan & Claude. I thought maybe parcels, but maybe a designated parcels van - Express Parcels - would be better. Or, -Rule 1 - a 35T Railfreight sideloading van hooked behind the early morning passenger train. I've learned something anyway. Thanks. Mickey26
Most CCT vehicles also had side doors, so their CCT designation in no way precluded them from being used as normal vans.
I think you can justifiably use a CCT in a parcels train. All sorts of vehicles were used in parcel train formation and I'm fairly certain that CCTs were no exception.
Presumably at some point in time, when the gentry no longer had carriages, the only use for CCTs was parcels ?
Best regards,
Joe
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 12, 2014, 09:06:07 PM
Presumably at some point in time, when the gentry no longer had carriages, the only use for CCTs was parcels ?
That would be assumption, too. Seen lots of photos of full brakes, GUVs and CCTs all jumbled up in the same parcels train. So far as I know, only the Southern Railway version of the CCT is currently available ready to run, but Farish have a BR version in preparation, I'm told.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: joe cassidy on January 12, 2014, 09:06:07 PM
Presumably at some point in time, when the gentry no longer had carriages, the only use for CCTs was parcels ?
Motor cars. In fact many CCT vehicles were designed for that use. Motorail type services really took off in the 1930s. In the 1960s the carflats toook over some of the traffic, in particular because they could be loaded more efficiently.
A lot of CCTs would have been mostly used for other freight traffic, not just parcels but for many years another staple - newspaper trains. The fact that a CCT could be end-loaded allowed them to carry all sorts of loads (even elephants), but they would carry "conventional" traffic just like any other van.
Alan
Quote from: EtchedPixels on January 12, 2014, 09:22:36 PM
The fact that a CCT could be end-loaded allowed them to carry all sorts of loads (even elephants), but they would carry "conventional" traffic just like any other van.
Alan
Presumably only found on trunk routes :D
i like these vans... but I think most had gone by the mid 80s so i'll probably not bother getting any.
If anyone is interested there's a 16 page article on such vans in the latest edition of The Southern Way (issue no 25). It covers the history, has quite a few pictures, and a couple of diagrammes.
Were they used in rakes or just in ones and twos with passenger traffic?
Dave G
In earlier days both, a few vans even got wired for push pull usage. In more modern times four and six wheelers got banned from passenger services.
Quote from: daveg on January 13, 2014, 08:35:51 PM
Were they used in rakes or just in ones and twos with passenger traffic?
Dave G
On the SR, you could often find one or two between the loco and the carriages of an express, or tagged onto the back of the train. The S&DJR used to run an early morning service, collecting three or four from Bath and running them to Bournemouth West (possibly - I can't check right now), along with an early goods service, to be distributed amongst the days expresses.
Until around 1979 you could occasionally see a swinger or two (mainly CCTs or PMVs (Parcels and Miscellaneous Van), but on occasions a GUV) on the end of a service DMU for the conveyance of parcels; as far as I'm aware the last such services were in the Cambridge area. When such a train reached its destination and there were no shunters to move the van(s) then the DMU would be used to move the van so that in would be at the rear of a later service.
Follow this link (http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document-library/sectional-appendices (http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document-library/sectional-appendices)) to find out how much could be towed by a DMU depending on the number and power of the operating engines, whether or not it was of light weight construction or the line it was operating over. This website is mainly concerned with BR's Eastern Region (Northern Area), but some of the information here can be transferred to the other regions. For example between Darlington and Saltburn a 2-car DMU with a minimum of 300hp can haul a tail load of not more than 25 tonnes. This equates to a single BZ, BGZ, BY, CCT, PMV or SPV (max loaded weight: 25 tonnes; empty weight 17 tonnes). A 4-car set with at least 1200hp could handle a tail load of up to 120 tonnes. A single B, Siphon G, BG and GUV equates to 40 tonnes max loaded weight (32 tonnes empty). However, for each failed engine the tail load has to be reduced by 35 tonnes.
Of course the CCTs and others would also appear in parcels trains - check out Flickr for examples (https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=parcel%20trains (https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=parcel%20trains)).
On the Southern Region, the use of vans as 'swingers' was never seen on regular EMU trains, the usual sightings were as complete trains. One I have particular experience of was the afternoon down Bricklayers Arms-Chichester (via the ex-LBSC main line and west Coastway route) Parcels and Newspapers train which by the early 70s was class 73 hauled and formed solely of 14-16 Mark 1 CCTs.
AFAIR, none of the BR Mark 1 CCTs ever appeared in green livery, and a relatively small quantity of the bogie GUV (General Utility Van) version did; on the other hand, the ubiquitous SR CCT (with end doors) and PMV (Parcels/Miscellaneous Van) (without) equivalents never appeared in maroon (despite what one manufacturer would have us believe). All this would change in the late 60s when Rail Blue appeared, but it was possible to see vans in green/maroon well into the 70s as the periods between repaints could be very long. The things rarely got washed anyway, so sometimes it was impossible to tell what the original livery of a van was unless you were standing right next to it.
Quote from: Neil of Longbeck on April 15, 2014, 08:14:40 PM
Until around 1979 you could occasionally see a swinger or two (mainly CCTs or PMVs (Parcels and Miscellaneous Van), but on occasions a GUV) on the end of a service DMU for the conveyance of parcels; as far as I'm aware the last such services were in the Cambridge area. When such a train reached its destination and there were no shunters to move the van(s) then the DMU would be used to move the van so that in would be at the rear of a later service.
Follow this link (http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document-library/sectional-appendices (http://www.limitofshunt.org.uk/document-library/sectional-appendices)) to find out how much could be towed by a DMU depending on the number and power of the operating engines, whether or not it was of light weight construction or the line it was operating over. This website is mainly concerned with BR's Eastern Region (Northern Area), but some of the information here can be transferred to the other regions. For example between Darlington and Saltburn a 2-car DMU with a minimum of 300hp can haul a tail load of not more than 25 tonnes. This equates to a single BZ, BGZ, BY, CCT, PMV or SPV (max loaded weight: 25 tonnes; empty weight 17 tonnes). A 4-car set with at least 1200hp could handle a tail load of up to 120 tonnes. A single B, Siphon G, BG and GUV equates to 40 tonnes max loaded weight (32 tonnes empty). However, for each failed engine the tail load has to be reduced by 35 tonnes.
Of course the CCTs and others would also appear in parcels trains - check out Flickr for examples (https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=parcel%20trains (https://www.flickr.com/search/?q=parcel%20trains)).
This appears to be an Eastern Region standard. Back in the 1960's I was issued with the Western Region DMU guide. At this time all Western DMU's were heavyweight classes generally formed in 3 car sets with 4 engines giving an available power of 600 hp.
As far as I can remember a 3car set could haul a trailing load of 50 tons provided the gradient did not exceed 1 in 50. If one engine was isolated the load was reduced.
Dodger
Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?
The BR GUV looks to have been pretty much a stretched CCT on bogies, and also had end doors. In the last years of Motorail GUVs were used to carry the cars. On occasion a WCML push-pull fitted electric would be pushing the passenger coaches and pulling the GUVs! There is (or was until recently) a Motorail GUV in Intercity livery mouldering away in the former Eurostar depot at Longsight in Manchester.
Quote from: Geoff on April 16, 2014, 07:13:15 AM
Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?
Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.
Quote from: talisman56 on April 16, 2014, 11:12:41 AM
Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.
This may help:
http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/results.aspx?searchfield=horse%20box (http://www.ehattons.com/stocklist/results.aspx?searchfield=horse%20box)
Dave G
Hi
I can remember the service between Bournemouth and Brockenhurst via Ringwood,the train consisted of M7 CCT Maunsell Push Pull Composite and a Maunsell BSK converted to have a driving cab at the Brake End.
That wa in the late 1950's
Mike :Class31:
Quote from: talisman56 on April 16, 2014, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Geoff on April 16, 2014, 07:13:15 AM
Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?
Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.
That depends if they had been packed or not. Lasagne goes in refrigerated vans.
Horses, sheep and cows had their own special wagons - as believe it not - did elephants. In older times dogs were also only carried in the luggage/guards wagons some of which had "dog boxes".
A few CCTs were specially fitted to allow them to be in a push-pull train on the SR. The GWR didn't bother for its autotrains, but as a result the van always had to be on whichever end of the train was "back" and had to be fitted.
Quote from: EtchedPixels on April 16, 2014, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: talisman56 on April 16, 2014, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Geoff on April 16, 2014, 07:13:15 AM
Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?
Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.
That depends if they had been packed or not. Lasagne goes in refrigerated vans.
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Dave G
Quote from: daveg on April 16, 2014, 10:19:56 PM
Quote from: EtchedPixels on April 16, 2014, 09:48:39 PM
Quote from: talisman56 on April 16, 2014, 11:12:41 AM
Quote from: Geoff on April 16, 2014, 07:13:15 AM
Did these vans ever get used for moving Horses or were other type of vans used?
Quick answer is no - there were special vehicles for transportation of horses.
That depends if they had been packed or not. Lasagne goes in refrigerated vans.
:laughabovepost: :laughabovepost: :laughabovepost:
Dave G
Or TESCO curtainsider containers, Tasty Equine Snacks Cheaply Outsourced :smiley-laughing: