Friends,
The article entitled "Simple Loco Maintenance" (Pages 28-30) is both instructive and interesting but....................
The author expects everyone to know how to use a meter, (Quote) "using a meter set for a continuity reading." (Unquote) Continuity reading?
Since there are many and varied testers on the market, I can understand that being specific is difficult, but is there a cheap amateur meter that incorporates this "Continuity setting" as standard and can be easily understood by the lay person or in my case, a slow learner!
Secondly, he refers to using "Teflon Grease", OK but which one, I have just been looking through a search on Ebay and the results could be anything from propeller shaft lubricant to front fork lubricant, is there any specific marque that you would recommend?
Your thoughts would be appreciated, Peter.
Hi Peter
Continuity = low ohms range (typically less than 100ohms). Hes assuming that we all know how to use a meter but really for basic maintenance you dont really need one.
I thought there was a part that said oil the commutator - did anyone else read this the same way? Thats a definite no no.
Interesting though.
Regards
Russ
Hi Peter,
I think by continuity reading, it just means getting a continuous reading that the meter is always registering some current. At least, that's the way I read it.
Quote from: RussellH on October 23, 2013, 05:37:45 PM
Hi Peter
I thought there was a part that said oil the commutator - did anyone else read this the same way? Thats a definite no no.
Regards
Russ
Yes on page 29 I quote, "Utilising Peco Electrolube, with an almost dry cotton bud (Squeeze the bud dry in a tissue) and avoiding the motor wires, oil the commutator" unquote.
I felt that there would be virtually nothing left top apply using that method if anything at all?
Peter.
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on October 23, 2013, 05:54:31 PM
Yes on page 29 I quote, "Utilising Peco Electrolube, with an almost dry cotton bud (Squeeze the bud dry in a tissue) and avoiding the motor wires, oil the commutator" unquote.
I did that once and the loco almost stopped running. I reckon the commutator should only be cleaned (and then only if necessary).
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on October 23, 2013, 05:15:34 PM
The author expects everyone to know how to use a meter, (Quote) "using a meter set for a continuity reading." (Unquote) Continuity reading?
He means a reading that tests whether there is a closed circuit (electrical continuity) or an open circuit/high resistance. I have an old analogue multimeter that has a Buzz setting (it buzzes if the circuit is closed), which is handy as you don't need to watch two things at once (your probes and the meter). Neither of the digital multimeters I've had had this feature (which is not to say there aren't any that do).
As Mike says, you can use the lowest resistance range. As to which digital multimeter, a cheap one will do. I have the cheapest Voltcraft available at the time (VC 120) and have found it satisfactory so far.
I notice he warns against getting oil on the carbon brushes. But they are in contact with the commutator, so if you oil that the oil will surely get onto the brushes.
Quote from: keithfre on October 23, 2013, 06:09:18 PM
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on October 23, 2013, 05:15:34 PM
The author expects everyone to know how to use a meter, (Quote) "using a meter set for a continuity reading." (Unquote) Continuity reading?
He means a reading that tests whether there is a closed circuit (electrical continuity) or an open circuit/high resistance. I have an old analogue multimeter that has a Buzz setting (it buzzes if the circuit is closed), which is handy as you don't need to watch two things at once (your probes and the meter). Neither of the digital multimeters I've had had this feature (which is not to say there aren't any that do).
As Mike says, you can use the lowest resistance range. As to which digital multimeter, a cheap one will do. I have the cheapest Voltcraft available at the time (VC 120) and have found it satisfactory so far.
Thankyou, is it likely that your Voltcraft has been updated to this one?
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/122999?insert=89 (http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/122999?insert=89)
Regards, Peter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkU18WmuWw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQkU18WmuWw)
You can use this on commutators!
Quote from: keithfre on October 23, 2013, 06:10:59 PM
I notice he warns against getting oil on the carbon brushes. But they are in contact with the commutator, so if you oil that the oil will surely get onto the brushes.
Never oil the commutator. That is what I was told and specifically confirmed. I think the journal perhaps needs to double check with Bachmann and/or BRob Russell and print an urgent correction on that point if need be.
The hydraulics article also contains a mistake, but a rather more harmless one ;-). The original warships were never "class 41" they were scrapped before TOPS classes were assigned. The only "class 41" was the prototype HST.
Alan
Quote from: keithfre on October 23, 2013, 06:09:18 PM
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on October 23, 2013, 05:15:34 PM
The author expects everyone to know how to use a meter, (Quote) "using a meter set for a continuity reading." (Unquote) Continuity reading?
He means a reading that tests whether there is a closed circuit (electrical continuity) or an open circuit/high resistance. I have an old analogue multimeter that has a Buzz setting (it buzzes if the circuit is closed), which is handy as you don't need to watch two things at once (your probes and the meter). Neither of the digital multimeters I've had had this feature (which is not to say there aren't any that do).
My Maplins one does ... or you can make one yourself. I did for those times I didn't want to mess around with a multimeter. The cost is very little.
You need :
- Project box (something like Maplins LH14Q)
- PP3 battery
- PP3 clip (a Maplins NE19V)
- a buzzer (Maplins KU58N)
- 5A terminal blocks
- sticky pads
- wire
- croc clips
Take off 3 of the terminal blocks, and put the buzzer into the outer ones. On the other side of the block, fit in the wires from the battery clip. Put a length of wire into the free terminal, and another into the centre. If you clip in the battery, you should be able to touch the free ends & get a sound.
Fit the wires through the case (make the holes large enough) and make another hole where the buzzer will be. Use the sticky pads to fit the terminal block and battery, and close up. Attach the croc clips to the free ends.
I think I have 6' lengths of wire on mine; cost was under a tenner.
Mike
Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 23, 2013, 07:07:10 PM
Quote from: keithfre on October 23, 2013, 06:10:59 PM
I notice he warns against getting oil on the carbon brushes. But they are in contact with the commutator, so if you oil that the oil will surely get onto the brushes.
Never oil the commutator. That is what I was told and specifically confirmed.
Yep, I'd agree with that - never get oil on the commutator is the usual wisdom and recommendation.
AFAIA the carbon brushes effectively polish the commutator and keep it clean and the only maintenance is to occasionally very carefully clean the gaps between the segments to remove any build up of carbon or dirt deposits.
H.
Alan, it's not a mistake. The D600 series was allocated TOPS classification 41, but never carried them. Since the locos were withdrawn in 1967, and renumbering didn't actually happen until after 1970 (if I recall correctly) this allocation was a paper exercise at best; indeed, one might speculate why they even bothered. But even if it was a theoretical designation, it was, I believe, an official one, and is used in books on the diesel hydraulics that I have to hand (e.g., Lewis' "The Western's Hydraulics").
A similar issue holds for the D800 series locos, which were classes 42 and 43; not only did they never carry these numbers, but 43 was re-used for the production series HSTs power cars.
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: EtchedPixels on October 23, 2013, 07:07:10 PM
The hydraulics article also contains a mistake, but a rather more harmless one ;-). The original warships were never "class 41" they were scrapped before TOPS classes were assigned. The only "class 41" was the prototype HST.
Alan
Quote from: NeMo on October 23, 2013, 07:39:50 PM
Alan, it's not a mistake. The D600 series was allocated TOPS classification 41
Class 41 was left for them in the initial proposed TOPS codes (as was 32 for what became 31/1 and a few others like that). They were never given or assigned that TOPS code. They were gone before TOPS codes were assigned. No British Rail document refers to them as class 41 - its a fiction of a couple of books that gets perpetrated on and on.
Alan (pedanticus maximus)
I stand corrected!
Cheers, NeMo
Quote from: H on October 23, 2013, 07:37:02 PM
Yep, I'd agree with that - never get oil on the commutator is the usual wisdom and recommendation.
AFAIA the carbon brushes effectively polish the commutator and keep it clean and the only maintenance is to occasionally very carefully clean the gaps between the segments to remove any build up of carbon or dirt deposits.
H.
Yep another agreement here, never oil the commutator.
I do clean the commutators on my locos, but I use IPA (and not the beer!!) on the end of a cotton bud, as it evaporates very quickly. I also clean between the plates very gently with a cocktail stick.
Then, I very gently wipe the end of brushes flat on a paper towel, just to take the curve off of them. This also cleans away any loose carbon from the end.
Then reassemble and test run, before putting the body back on :D :D
And Roberts your fathers brother....
Regards
Neal.
Quote from: Calnefoxile on October 23, 2013, 09:06:08 PM
...And Roberts your fathers brother....
Nah. Robert was
my brother, not my father's. :P But here's the newbie question: why do you need a meter?
Quote from: petercharlesfagg on October 23, 2013, 06:18:18 PM
Thankyou, is it likely that your Voltcraft has been updated to this one?
http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/122999?insert=89 (http://www.conrad-electronic.co.uk/ce/en/product/122999?insert=89)
Looks pretty similar to mine, which as the model number suggests is between that one and the VC 130.
back to the multi-meter there is only one worth using thats a AVO , if you are looking for a cheaper one invest in a KYORITSU ...
mr bachmann
Quote from: mr bachmann on October 24, 2013, 04:13:12 PM
if you are looking for a cheaper one invest in a KYORITSU ...
Cheaper? the cheapest on conrad is 185 euros - surely total overkill for our purposes!
Did nobody watch the Labelle video? At 5 minutes on he says don't use petroleum based oil on the commy, but the Labelle oil is fine. No. 107 for OO and 108 for N gauge and smaller.
Maplins have some good quality and cheap meters starting from £20 - more than enough for hobby work, I also use mine for automotive testing and is lasting very well and is still on it's original battery...
I have no connection with Maplins, just a happy customer sharing a good product...
http://www.maplin.co.uk/precision-gold-pg017-digital-multimeter-4407 (http://www.maplin.co.uk/precision-gold-pg017-digital-multimeter-4407)
I don't feel that fancy oils and cleaners are necessary these days, I just wipe gears etc clean with a lint free cloth, for electrical contacts I have a big bottle of 'old spice' aftershave (thanks Nan !) that I use and has proven to be a great cleaner that doesn't smell too bad.... :D
As for oil - I use 'Lubrication oil' by Lychett Manor Models and it's a good general purpose oil, works great with dapol locos as it's not too thick, and doesn't appear to evaporate.
Cleaning the comm, I use a scrap of plastikard to clean out the gaps, but that's it. It's really tempting to clean the comm (assuming it's removed from the motor) buy using a bit of cloth and rotating the comm - DON'T ! You'll rip off the coil connections, I know - I did it ! (many moons ago) :doh:
Hi Guys,
AVO - No - much as it was a good (only) meter in its time its easily outclassed by modern DMM's. Its also got a nasty habit of messing up some semiconductors & conductive plastics due to its fairly high powered ohms range so just be careful with it if you insist on using an antique like that (and don’t drop it cause they don’t bounce). For what we do an expensive meter is not required BUT If you feel you need to make an investment then one of the best meters is the fluke 87 (£50+on ebay second hand). Everyone's got their own preference but it by far the most common where I work.
Meanwhile there are loads of cheap DMMs to choose from - just make sure its auto ranging - saves alot of messing around.
Commutators stay dry - no oil - carbon is self lubing. Adding oil grease or anything like that just makes all the carbon dust into a sticky paste with all the drag that brings. Clean the comm with pure alcohol or fully evaporating solvent. If you give it a polish while running with a blunt cocktail stick dipped in solvent you can hear the difference.
Also a thumbs up for the careful flattening of the brush face prior to refitting - more noticeable on minitrix with directional running issues.
Regards
Russ