Kickstarter DCC system

Snowwolflair · June 23, 2020, 05:28:34 PM

Please leave in this section as it might be of interest to those not involved in DCC.

There is a live Kickstarter project that is past threshold funding. the funding is for what I can best describe as a super "sprog" that can be connected to a computer running JMRI software by USB or uniquely WiFi. This is a basic unit based on the DCC++ architecture but as a product, and the developer will be adding a throttle and other modules. The net result will be a simple DCC system ideal for a test track, although it is capable of running a full layout.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wasatchscalemodels/firebox-a-tiny-dcc-train-controller?ref=discovery_category_ending_soon

jthjth · June 23, 2020, 10:24:54 PM

Hmm.....

I'm not sure it does any more than my PiSPROG does, other than perhaps a few more amps (5 vs 2.5) which is of doubtful value in N. The PiSPROG provides Wi-Fi via the Pi, and uses JMRI, as does this product. Not sure about Railcom support, as that doesn't interest me, so I don't know if the PiSPROG supports it or not. But certainly this project is not the only product that avoids alleged manufacturer lock in.

Snowwolflair · June 23, 2020, 10:40:07 PM

The basic offering is similar, however this one has the Arduino built in so "piSPROG one + Pi" in one, which simplifies the requirements for PSU and housing for those not wanting to play with Pi. It also has an Ic2 bus or similar and will have a plug in throttle that can be added later.

I think it might prove a useful toolkit controller for a test track.

emjaybee · June 23, 2020, 10:55:04 PM

If I may beg your indulgence...

Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 23, 2020, 05:28:34 PM
Please leave in this section as it might be of interest to those not involved in DCC.

There is a live Kickstarter project that is past threshold funding. the funding is for what I can best describe as a super "sprog" that can be connected to a computer running JMRI software by USB or uniquely WiFi. This is a basic unit based on the DCC++ architecture but as a product, and the developer will be adding a throttle and other modules. The net result will be a simple DCC system ideal for a test track, although it is capable of running a full layout.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wasatchscalemodels/firebox-a-tiny-dcc-train-controller?ref=discovery_category_ending_soon

..."might be of interest to those not involved in DCC", you say.

Would it be possible to break down into laymans terms your introduction paragraph. I'm about to start my first DCC small layout with a proprietary unit, and I didn't understand most of what you said. Specifically: 'Sprog', 'JMRI', 'DCC++ architecture'.

I AM interested in DCC, and I have no idea what you said. If the hope is to entice non-DCC people to have a look then it could do with being broken down a bit.

Thanks.

Snowwolflair · June 23, 2020, 11:18:03 PM

SPROG is a commercial box that sits between a computer and the track and is a cut down DCC controller that is driven by JMRI software running on a computer. DCC++ is another piece of hardware that does a similar function to the SPROG and is an open source (geeks to fiddle with) device. JMRI is the product of a collaboration of enthusiasts and is a very comprehensive set of software that allows all aspects of controlling and programming DCC locos.

This new offering is based on the DCC++ design and software but works out of the box (no geek required) using a mobile phone as a throttle..

emjaybee · June 23, 2020, 11:25:13 PM

Aah! And the mist clears a bit. Thanks for that. The first three posts looked a bit like Klingon!

Snowwolflair · June 23, 2020, 11:34:40 PM

Quote from: emjaybee on June 23, 2020, 11:25:13 PM
Aah! And the mist clears a bit. Thanks for that. The first three posts looked a bit like Klingon!

Who needs Klingon when you can speak engineer

emjaybee · June 23, 2020, 11:42:34 PM

Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 23, 2020, 11:34:40 PM
Quote from: emjaybee on June 23, 2020, 11:25:13 PM
Aah! And the mist clears a bit. Thanks for that. The first three posts looked a bit like Klingon!

Who needs Klingon when you can speak engineer

I speak engineer, but I've no idea what the heck you lot were speaking!

Cutting through the 'tech' speak. What's your opinion of the system on offer?

Snowwolflair · June 23, 2020, 11:49:10 PM

If it does what it claims it is worth the money.

jthjth · June 24, 2020, 07:27:18 AM

Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 23, 2020, 10:40:07 PM
The basic offering is similar, however this one has the Arduino built in so "piSPROG one + Pi" in one, which simplifies the requirements for PSU and housing for those not wanting to play with Pi. It also has an Ic2 bus or similar and will have a plug in throttle that can be added later.

I think it might prove a useful toolkit controller for a test track.

Forgive me if I sound like I want to start an argument, but that's not really the intention - I'm just seeking clarity. From what I've read on the project's site, this device still requires JMRI to be running on a computer, so it doesn't remove the need to understand that software. So for a test track I'm not entirely convinced it is of more utility than a standard USB Sprog plugged into your laptop. For running a layout, again you seem to still need JMRI, so you need a computer. So you can either use a usb Sprog and your computer or a PiSPROG and have the Pi as your computer. So I'm not entirely sure what problem this device is solving that hasn't already been solved.

The real problem with both this and the Sprog's approach is JMRI. This is very powerful software, and importantly it is free of charge. However, there is a bit of a learning curve for the beginner, and the online documentation is not really written for the complete beginner.

If this project develops a throttle with a decent user interface so that JMRI isn't needed then it would be really interesting. I don't think anyone has really solved the problem of a low cost, easy to use yet powerful user interface for a DCC throttle. By analogy, smart phones were kicking around for a number of years with a Esther hopeless Microsoft user interface. It took the first iPhone to shake up the ideas of use ability for the average user, but that required the resources of a large company.

Snowwolflair · June 24, 2020, 10:37:29 AM

Quote from: jthjth on June 24, 2020, 07:27:18 AM
Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 23, 2020, 10:40:07 PM
The basic offering is similar, however this one has the Arduino built in so "piSPROG one + Pi" in one, which simplifies the requirements for PSU and housing for those not wanting to play with Pi. It also has an Ic2 bus or similar and will have a plug in throttle that can be added later.

I think it might prove a useful toolkit controller for a test track.
Forgive me if I sound like I want to start an argument, but that's not really the intention - I'm just seeking clarity. From what I've read on the project's site, this device still requires JMRI to be running on a computer, so it doesn't remove the need to understand that software. So for a test track I'm not entirely convinced it is of more utility than a standard USB Sprog plugged into your laptop. For running a layout, again you seem to still need JMRI, so you need a computer. So you can either use a usb Sprog and your computer or a PiSPROG and have the Pi as your computer. So I'm not entirely sure what problem this device is solving that hasn't already been solved.

The real problem with both this and the Sprog's approach is JMRI. This is very powerful software, and importantly it is free of charge. However, there is a bit of a learning curve for the beginner, and the online documentation is not really written for the complete beginner.

If this project develops a throttle with a decent user interface so that JMRI isn't needed then it would be really interesting. I don't think anyone has really solved the problem of a low cost, easy to use yet powerful user interface for a DCC throttle. By analogy, smart phones were kicking around for a number of years with a Esther hopeless Microsoft user interface. It took the first iPhone to shake up the ideas of use ability for the average user, but that required the resources of a large company.

Its the ability to add a throttle and other upgrades for accessory control (without a computer being needed), something not possible (yet) with SPROG or any other system in this price range. My hope is it ends up as a very simple system, like the original Bachman Ez system in presentation but able to address multiple 2 and 4 digit addressed locos and F1-F24.