New PCA cement wagon from Realtrack

njee20 · October 24, 2018, 07:21:10 AM

They require PayPal Friends & Family?! Seriously?! That's gotta be a breach of PayPal's terms for funding commercial projects.

Seriously unimpressed with that as a way to conduct business.

Full payment up front too, and 24 is £600. Mmm, think I'm out sadly.

Edit: ahh actually I think other payment options are available but if you choose PayPal they mandate F&F, still think that's very poor.

Claude Dreyfus · October 24, 2018, 07:38:03 AM

Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 07:21:10 AM
They require PayPal Friends & Family?! Seriously?! That's gotta be a breach of PayPal's terms for funding commercial projects.

Seriously unimpressed with that as a way to conduct business.

Full payment up front too, and 24 is £600. Mmm, think I'm out sadly.

Edit: ahh actually I think other payment options are available but if you choose PayPal they mandate F&F, still think that's very poor.

I agree. There are various buyer protection mechanisms which are not applicable to 'Friends and Family', and it is not recommended for transactions.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/Disputes-and-Limitations/Can-you-dispute-a-friends-and-family-payment/td-p/841206

It does save the seller the PayPal fees, you pay them instead, however; so it is a win for them. Personally I would steer well clear of this...they need to have the proper buyers protection in place.

tutenkhamunsleeping · October 24, 2018, 09:24:05 AM

Ouch! That's me out

njee20 · October 24, 2018, 09:24:43 AM

Agreed, and call me sceptical, but delivery in Q1... there doesn't even seem to be an EP in N gauge.

It's a real shame, I really would like a rake, but at 20% more expensive than the OO gauge ones and that nonsense it feels something to pass on.

woodbury22uk · October 24, 2018, 11:14:39 AM

Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 09:24:43 AM

Agreed, and call me sceptical, but delivery in Q1... there doesn't even seem to be an EP in N gauge.

i think that the body mouldings were on show at Milton Keynes.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138342-accurascale-and-realtrack-team-up-to-release-pca-cement-wagon-in-4mm-and-2mm/?p=3330806

Seems to me that Accurascale/Realtrack have missed a trick here on the pricing. N is the scale where full rakes can be contemplated by a larger number of users, but pricing is substantially above the 00 version. So the price will probably reduce sales in N by more than the amount gained in the N price premium. It almost looks like Realtrack are applying an extra retail margin, on what they are buying from Accurascale already at higher than a normal wholesale price.

So instead of a full Rugby train of 15 wagons I'll make do with one pack of STS - or maybe let it pass altogether.

woodbury22uk · October 24, 2018, 11:32:13 AM

I have had another look at the pricing. The discount for multiple orders of the same livery brings down the price from £78 for one pack to £76 for two packs, and £75 for 4 packs. No discount for mixed liveries.

In 00 gauge 4 packs of one livery come to £63.80 per pack against the £75 per pack in N, so widening the price differential, from 11% for a single pack to 15% for 4 packs.

njee20 · October 24, 2018, 12:26:59 PM

Yes that's what I found, and I totally agree with your appraisal that:

a) big rakes are more likely in N
b) they appear to be applying an extra margin on the N gauge ones

Do we know why the N gauge ones only are coming via Realtrack, rather than both scales being Accurascale (or Realtrack)?

Thanks for the info on the sample, didn't realise that, so my scepticism is reined in slightly!

Ben A · October 24, 2018, 05:11:38 PM

Hello all,

I am not sure about all the politics but it's my guess that the 2mm PCAs are coming via Realtrack because of Arran Aird's involvement.

It would be nice if they were the same price in N as 00 but often there is disparity - and usually it's to N's benefit. The TEA tankers Revolution is doing have a significantly higher price point in 00.

So if, on this occasion, it's the other way round, so be it. I'm in for one each of every pack (of Castle Cement, that is) and if they do more, with different numbers, I may be in for those too.

I posted a photo of the sample on show at GETS a couple of weeks ago; this comprised a moulded barrel and other parts 3D printed as the tool wasn't quite ready in time.

Be very surprised not to see a much more complete sample at Warley, and Accurascale have shown they can turn models around in a reasonable timeframe, so perhaps Q1 is manageable.

Cheers

Ben A.

Steven B · October 25, 2018, 09:51:57 AM

I'm guessing that they're expecting to sell fewer models in N and so have to charge more to cover the cost of tooling and scale specific CAD.

Steven B.

Western Exile · October 25, 2018, 10:55:36 AM

I don't know much about the business models of Realtrack or Accurascale but if the former is a business that has to make a profit for its owner and the latter is more of a side project for people who have jobs elsewhere, that would account for the difference. Don't forget that the Revolution IZAs were £36 when bought directly and £49 from retailers. If it's your livelihood, you have to make your money somewhere.

njee20 · October 25, 2018, 11:07:51 AM

I don't think it's anything to do with that so much as one is sold via Accurascale, and thus has one lot of 'margin' incorporated, whilst the other has the inclusion of Realtrack as intermediary, so there's an additional margin which we're effectively covering.

I guess, as Ben says, that's just the way it is, and often our products are slightly cheaper, but it just feels a bit odd. On the one hand there's a cohesive announcement for both, but they're being vended through different channels.

Quote from: Steven B on October 25, 2018, 09:51:57 AM
I'm guessing that they're expecting to sell fewer models in N and so have to charge more to cover the cost of tooling and scale specific CAD.

Yes, presumably so, but that's where Mike's point is relevant - most people in OO probably won't be buying huge rakes of them, whilst N gauge is great for that, and even a modest layout can hold a reasonable length train. If they'd been more like £60 a pack (when buying in bulk) I'd probably have had 8 triple packs, but for me £75 is just a bit too much given forthcoming projects I know I'll want, and given I've only ever seen them in bulk trains I don't really want a shorter rake. I know that's slightly perverse, as I was psychologically spending £480ish, and could still just buy 18, but what can I say, I'm fickle

I'm still mulling over selling all my Farish PCAs to fund it though, as I do like them, and they look like decent models. Anyone know when the order book closes?

Ben A · October 25, 2018, 02:46:33 PM

Hi alll,

I am not sure the order book will close as such. I think a fixed number are being produced and when they're gone they're gone.

Having said that if the sales are strong it may be that more can be added to the production order to accommodate.

Cheers

Ben A.

njee20 · October 25, 2018, 02:58:13 PM

Thanks Ben, I've just got so used to crowdfunded projects

PaulCheffus · October 25, 2018, 04:30:35 PM

Quote from: njee20 on October 24, 2018, 07:21:10 AM
They require PayPal Friends & Family?! Seriously?! That's gotta be a breach of PayPal's terms for funding commercial projects.

Seriously unimpressed with that as a way to conduct business.

Full payment up front too, and 24 is £600. Mmm, think I'm out sadly.

Edit: ahh actually I think other payment options are available but if you choose PayPal they mandate F&F, still think that's very poor.

Hi

However you can pay with a credit card using SagePay which is what I have done. Not been charged yet though.

Cheers

Paul

njee20 · October 25, 2018, 08:31:19 PM

Yes, that was my edit, which is good, glad there are options. Still think it stinks, and is in contravention of PayPal's T&Cs.