Train Lengths

[EtchedPixels]

So i tend to use 3 wagons with a shunter (class 03/04/08), 5 wagons with a small loco
(class 14 - 33), 10 wagons with big loco's (class 37 onwards). Then for coaches i tend to
use 5 in a rake.

Some of it depends on space on the layout what looks right. As scenically its oten quite compressed shorter trains often look right IMHO.

In reality a reasonably level site a small shunter can happily shift 10 coach trains although it's not going anywhere in a hurry.


Class 08 08644 + 50034 shunting Penzance Station 4th May 1984

7-8 coaches was a typical limit for the smaller diesels again depending upon the grades. Somewhat less for the class 31/4's which were known as "Pedalo"'s for good reason and couldn't really handle more than 4 or 5 on their own.

[edwin_m]

Should the train length be related to the tractive effort of the locomotive?  I assume that there is some sort of compliation around rolling resistance, gradients etc. but the load that a train can pull must be less than its tractive effort isn't it? 

So if you google the load + Tare weight of you wagon(s).  You also google the total tractive effort of the locomotive.  If you divide Tractive Effort by Wagon weight it should tell you how many wagons you can pull...

All you experts out there is this basically right?

Sorry no.  That would tell you how much load the train could lift straight up in the air! 

The tractive effort is the force the locomotive can exert, as would be measured by a spring balance connected to the rear coupling.  On level track the tractive effort must overcome the rolling resistance of the train, which depends on weight but also speed and is difficult to work out.  On an ascending gradient it must also provide extra force which depends on the total weight of the train but also the steepness of the gradient. 

Particularly for trains without continuous brakes brake force is also important, as suggested by a previous poster.  One of the reasons Class 40s lasted so long, despite their huge weight and limited power, was that they were good for stopping long unfitted trains. 

Basically the maximum load has to be worked out for each loco type on each route, and this information is available to freight train operators but not to the general public. 

[Calnefoxile]

Apologies if this is in the wrong place ( i did look but couldnt really see a rolling stock bit) but i was wonder if people could furnish me with some train lengths to aid planning.

I'm primarily after

2+8 Hst
36 Wagon MGR plus loco eg 56
37/47 etc plus 5 coach
37/47 etc plus 8 coach
158 2 car length
loco plus 10TEA bogie tanks

As i havent got any stock it does make planning a little difficult to do so any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Rich,

If you remember when we were planning the replacement fiddle yards for Mandlebury, now Slutters Gussett, we worked out the following:

HST 2 + 8 = Approx 60" - depending on coupling length
56 + 36 x HAA's = 96" - depending on coupling length
47 + 10 MK2's = Approx 60""

And so most of fiddle yard raods were approximately 60" in length with 2 of them being 96" in length to accomodate the MGR's.

Thats if my memory serves me well, which it probably doesn't  But I'll have a look when I get home tonight as I'm sure I've got the Fiddle Yard details at home.

Cheers

Neal.

[Greybeema]

Edwin,

Thats great - I know for sure now, just count the wagons in the photo...

[EtchedPixels]

Basically the maximum load has to be worked out for each loco type on each route, and this information is available to freight train operators but not to the general public.

Actually its available to anyone bored enough to send Network Rail a freedom of information request

[reuben28]

Hello Guys,

My final observations on this subject and then i will leave it alone.

I also want to apologise for raising and old subject.

I have just extended the track to run all the way around my 4ft x 6ft "L shape" layout,
think i now have about 24ft of running length.

My class 14 now looks perfectly fine circling the track with all of the wagons (7 x 10ft  & 1 x 15ft).

Reuben.

[tim-pelican]

That might be down to the "rule of thirds", which I don't think anyone's mentioned yet, but I've seen in a few articles elsewhere.  In short, if the train takes up more than a third of the scenic section it's in, it tends to look "too big".  Obviously what your eye brackets as a "section" can vary, and stations *ought* to be more crowded than countryside, etc., but I can see the sense as a starting point.

[Pete Mc]

Just been reading through this thread and have to say that on the measurement front,I have two hst's in blue/grey that are in a 2+8 configuration.My storage yards were lengthened to accomodate these two trains.
In each direction,I have two outer storage roads of equal length to accomodate these and a long freight train.These being a MGR train and a tta tank train,both are 22 wagon rakes and are a tad longer than the hst's but fit the storage road comfortably.I am going to add a TEA tank rake at a later date with the potential for on wagon to accomodate a sound decoder if I cannot stuff it into the loco at the front,but thats a different subject for another thread.
And,Slutters Gussett.
What a fantastic name for a layout.I would love to see the cameo's on that one.
And the layout.

Pete