Import Duty etc On Goods From UK After 1 January 2021

Started by dannyboy, December 08, 2020, 07:46:52 PM

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dannyboy

If I do get caught for duty etc on orders from the UK, it usually costs me about 30/35% of my initial cost price.
David.
I used to be indecisive - now I'm not - I don't think.
If a friend seems distant, catch up with them.

zwilnik

Quote from: RailGooner on June 08, 2021, 12:36:48 PM
Why buy from the UK for shipping to the Continent?! I know that Modellbahn-Kramm definitely offer both GWR and LNER and am fairly sure DM-Toys do too.

I'd pre-ordered from TrainTrax before finding that out :)

Doddy

Hi, I haven't been an active participant in this discussion for a couple of months because summer has hit SW Crete (apologies, no wind up intended, hehe) and I've been focussed on life support for roses and other objects of affection.

But I have been following the thread and it appears that things are possibly improving but remaining inconsistent across the EU. I've had a non rolling stock order from DM who did impress. Their prices for UK manufactured stuff was not alarming, their service was good and they have really cute rail track sticky tape on their packaging- I haven't checked the sleeper spacing! I also receive their email stock updates and my impression is that their UK range is increasing. An issue for EU stockists must be what UK outline models to stock and as an experiment I shall see if I can pre-order items that I know are due for release later in the year. That seems to be a way of assisting stockists purchasing strategies. DM have several Dapol Halls on their website at prices that are competitive at today's exchange rates and without the rip off of unpredictable admin charges. Are countries really adding Import Charges or is that a piece of mis translation. For example Greek utilities and banks have sometimes added 'tax' when in fact they mean 'admin fees'.

zwilnik

Quote from: Doddy on June 08, 2021, 02:55:31 PM
Hi, I haven't been an active participant in this discussion for a couple of months because summer has hit SW Crete (apologies, no wind up intended, hehe) and I've been focussed on life support for roses and other objects of affection.

But I have been following the thread and it appears that things are possibly improving but remaining inconsistent across the EU. I've had a non rolling stock order from DM who did impress. Their prices for UK manufactured stuff was not alarming, their service was good and they have really cute rail track sticky tape on their packaging- I haven't checked the sleeper spacing! I also receive their email stock updates and my impression is that their UK range is increasing. An issue for EU stockists must be what UK outline models to stock and as an experiment I shall see if I can pre-order items that I know are due for release later in the year. That seems to be a way of assisting stockists purchasing strategies. DM have several Dapol Halls on their website at prices that are competitive at today's exchange rates and without the rip off of unpredictable admin charges. Are countries really adding Import Charges or is that a piece of mis translation. For example Greek utilities and banks have sometimes added 'tax' when in fact they mean 'admin fees'.

Yeah, in my case there was the expected IVA (VAT) at 21% but also "Derechos de aduana sobre productos industriales" which is "Customs duties on industrial products" at around 4%. I suspect this wasn't supposed to be added for model trains (despite it being properly declared etc.) but given it's 'only' about €10 and disputing it could end up with my model going back to the UK or being tied up for months, so I'm not going to argue it.

woodbury22uk

I think that the customs code used most is this:-

95 03 00 30  Electric trains, incl. tracks, signals, and other accessories therefor; reduced-size "scale" model assembly kits;

This is generally 0% on WTO, but the EU may be loading it for country of origin outside the EU. Other WTO "toy" categories come in at 4.7%
Mike

Membre AFAN 0196

RailGooner


Doddy

I think you've exactly described the difficulty because we, as modellers, have ordered something quite specific and because in the EU area we are a very small number, we probably don't have a choice so the couriers and customs have us over a barrel. I did say 'No, send it back' to one item but only because I knew Marks Models had it in stock and it arrived very quickly and faster than an argument with the desk jockeys in customs.

Further to my 'cunning plan' in an earlier email, I've discovered DM don't do pre-orders so, if Mr DM is reading this, I want to buy a Dapol 9F to be re-released later this year and if he asks I'll give him my card number via his registered customers website. Perhaps others, and stockists, want to indicate an interest also.

I've been alerted to further replies whilst typing. One refers to WTO, but surely the issue is that customs duties and levels shouldn't come into this since the agreement negotiated said it was tariff free. This debate should be about VAT charges and the greed of some couriers in administering them.

RailGooner

As @Only Me I strictly keep below €135 and as stated earlier in this thread haven't had any extra charges. Had to pass on a pair of TEE coaches a few months back at €195 - the seller declined my request to invoice and ship each coach seperately.

woodbury22uk

#158
Quote from: Doddy on June 08, 2021, 05:02:39 PM
I've been alerted to further replies whilst typing. One refers to WTO, but surely the issue is that customs duties and levels shouldn't come into this since the agreement negotiated said it was tariff free. This debate should be about VAT charges and the greed of some couriers in administering them.

Tariff free is shorthand for "tariff free for goods that qualify". The criteria for qualification include country of origin.....so buying even part Chinese-made goods from the UK does not automatically qualify for tariff free status.

Light reading but Paragraph 1.1 sums it up:-

"To export tariff-free under the TCA, goods must meet the UK-EU preferential rules of origin. This means that there must be a qualifying level of processing in the country of export to access zero tariffs. "

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/rules-of-origin-for-goods-moving-between-the-uk-and-eu/introduction-to-rules-of-origin-and-claiming-preferential-tariffs-duties

Mike

Membre AFAN 0196

njee20

I had an order from Digikeijs a couple of weeks ago, they removed Dutch VAT, and as it was under £135 I didn't incur anything here either. Win/win. I'm sure the UK stockists are annoyed by that sort of practice though (as would HMRC be I suspect), as it meant hugely undercutting them. Delivery was quick by DHL.

Nigel Cliffe

Quote from: Only Me on June 08, 2021, 05:18:40 PM
Not strictly train related but I buy beer kegs from Bier and Wein in Germany... in order to avoid taxes and import charges the entire value excluding courier costs must be under €135 and must pay in euros not gbp... This was advised to me through the German company.  That way I just pay German vat at source in euro..

As described, the German company are doing it wrongly.   If the goods are going to the UK, they don't have EU (German) VAT applied. 
If below the £135 limit, the selling company is supposed to register with the UK authorities to collect UK VAT (and return it to the UK government), so the buyer should be paying UK VAT to the German company on the order. 
Further, the whole consignment is subject to UK duty on alcohol, payable at the border.  (Unless its going from an EU country to Northern Ireland, then different rules apply).


Quote from: njee20 on June 09, 2021, 04:30:31 PM
I had an order from Digikeijs a couple of weeks ago, they removed Dutch VAT, and as it was under £135 I didn't incur anything here either. Win/win. I'm sure the UK stockists are annoyed by that sort of practice though (as would HMRC be I suspect), as it meant hugely undercutting them. Delivery was quick by DHL.

Again, Digikeijs are doing it wrongly. 

In both cases, I don't blame the EU companies for not bothering to register for and pay taxes to a third country.   
But, it does mean that the person importing stuff might then find themselves picking up the tax and collection charges (and duty on alcohol) if the item is spotted as it comes in through UK customs. 



- Nigel

njee20

Yep, I know, hence my comment that I imagine HMRC would be grumpy if they found out. I suspect it'll take a long time for this sort of thing to settle down, as I can't see a mechanism for HMRC to start intercepting parcels under £135 to verify correct charging of VAT.

nobby

Just got a bill for £49 for import vat and UPs handling charge on a order from DM toys NICE , had to pay vat twice as DM TOYS haven't take off the german 19%tax so have paid that  , also was charged 20% on 190EUROS NOT £163 GBP as it should be. tried speaking to CUSTOMS AND UPS what a waste of time so have just paid it, Looks like that was my last order from  DM toys , will have to try other suppliers from now on  , shame as the do some really nice bits and detailing stuff , but i am not prepared to pay double VAT taxes on orders from them , NOT A HAPPY BUNNY

Doddy

Hi Nobby, sadly like most couriers, UPS are virtually out of communication. I've rather lost track of what was agreed six months ago but was there not to be a sort of grace period of six months for UK residents to adjust before experiencing the full benefits of Brexit or was that only the case in NI or for Cumberland sausages? I read the piece suggested by Woodbury22UK on the WTO which was both informative and confusing. I can see how country of origin might apply in the case of a container load of goods from Taiwan but how does it apply to the small parcels we deal with. At the end of last year, Kernow sent me a new GF, 8F and the customs declaration label had a description that was accurate, honest but bland. How would Eftikis in the Athens customs shed know that an English sounding Graham Farrish British outline steam loco had 90% of it's origins in the PRC and had "only just got off the boat"! Anyway, summers here, it's over 30° everyday, cafes are busy with tourists so I'm off to the railway room to finish Penzance Station in the cool, bon voyage.

njee20

Quote from: nobby on June 27, 2021, 01:46:34 AM
Just got a bill for £49 for import vat and UPs handling charge on a order from DM toys NICE , had to pay vat twice as DM TOYS haven't take off the german 19%tax so have paid that  , also was charged 20% on 190EUROS NOT £163 GBP as it should be. tried speaking to CUSTOMS AND UPS what a waste of time so have just paid it, Looks like that was my last order from  DM toys , will have to try other suppliers from now on  , shame as the do some really nice bits and detailing stuff , but i am not prepared to pay double VAT taxes on orders from them , NOT A HAPPY BUNNY

Surely 20% of €190 is the same as £163...? This is correct though, DM Toys have repeatedly said they won't be removing the VAT, and it's nothing to do with UPS, who are doing things correctly. It's a shame, but I also won't ever order anything from DM Toys again. It'll be interesting to see what he does when the rules for intra-EU sales change, and he's supposed to charge VAT at the rate of the country of delivery.

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