RevolutioN Trains - All steel ‘K-type’ Pullmans

[gc4946]

I'd buy a twin pack of brakes to go with Mk1 Pullmans if offered, please

[Karhedron]

Someone with more time/patience than me has found the following formation for the 1958 South Wales Pullman.

August 1958 South Wales Pullman formation (starting from locomotive) of:

Car No.55                   K-type 36/24 seat?? 3rd Brake (a.k.a. Guard Parlour)
Car No.169 (or 171)    K-type 30 seat 3rd Kitchen
Car No.35                   K-type 54 seat 3rd Parlour
Diamond*                   K-type 22 seat Kitchen, the "Daffodil" Bar
Rosamund                  K-type 22 seat 1st Kitchen
Zena                          K-type ?? seat 1st Parlour
Cecilia                        K-type 22 seat 1st Kitchen
Car No.54 (or 27)        K-type 36/24 seat?? 3rd Brake (Guard Parlour)

[red_death]

Most of the K types in that S Wales formation demonstrate the challenge of Pullmans in that although they are all/mostly K types very few are 1928 all steel K types! Only Zena from a quick look is an all steel K type.

When I've got a bit more time I'll put a full list of all the all steel K types on our website. The third class cars are 67-80 plus 81-84 (1931 build) plus 15 named Cars.

Cheers Mike

[Karhedron]

Thanks for the clarification Mike. Even if they are not exactly correct, they would still be close enough for me to justify them to myself on a WR layout.

[Newportnobby]

I must admit I wasn't going to drawn into a possible purchase until that @Karhedron stuck his oar in with the South Wales Pullman
However, if you can knock up a 'Falcon' for release with the 'K's then I'll definitely be up for it

[class8mikado]

This is the contradiction of N - The fact is that its so small that to the untrained eye minor detail differences are easily passed over - not small enough that the trained eye cant pick out the details that make certain models 'wrong type, wrong place, wrong time'.
At the end of the day i think i would prefer to have a reproduction that is beautiful in its own right and a close facsimile of what i am trying to model  than something that is more prototypical but badly proportioned/detailed etc  that might be just me...

[Karhedron]

I must admit I wasn't going to drawn into a possible purchase until that @Karhedron stuck his oar in with the South Wales Pullman

[talisman56]

Also not sure if these were K's or not, but "In 1958 seven Pullman cars were sold to the Southern Region, repainted green and used as buffets, mainly in Southampton boat trains, until withdrawn in 1963". https://sremg.org.uk/coach/pullman.shtml


Bob

These were 'K' types, Bob, but the 'Standard' wooden bodied ones...

[martyn]

@class8mikado

The 'Hook Continental' had Pullman buffet cars 'Irene' and 'Fortuna' in the 1938 set which lasted until 1963/4. I don't know what type these were. Internally, ther stock was similar to that of the 'Coronation' or Silver Jubilee' rather than standard vehicles, and AFAIK, not articulated. They did have the 'normal' teak sided finish rather than the special sides of the Streamliners.

About the early/mid 70s, there was one or two Mk1 Pullmans declassified to First in the set; I don't know when these went, but seemingly before 1983.

Martyn

[talisman56]

A list of all the All-Steel 'K'-type Pullmans and basic info, including where they were allocated.



Note: Cars No. 73 and 74 were named 'Ceteia' and 'Melandra' repectively between Sep-62 and Oct-63.
'Belinda' received LNER-pattern bogies at an unknown date.
'Thelma' and Cars No. 73 and 79 received replacement vestibule doors with smaller windows c1952.

[Bob G]

@talisman56 You are a star. Thank you.

[Hiawatha]

Did they look the same till 1956 (when 3rd class was changed to 2nd), or was the lettering different in the pre- and post-war periods?

[talisman56]

Did they look the same till 1956 (when 3rd class was changed to 2nd), or was the lettering different in the pre- and post-war periods?

The First Class cars changed very little externally; the Third Class cars initially started out with 'Car No. xx Third Class' in the central body nameplate; this was changed post-war to 'Third Class Car No. xx', but almost soon after to just 'Car No. xx'*. All cars overhauled after the start of 1959 received a simplified lining scheme and a new, smaller and wider, Pullman Crest.

*Certainly by 1950 when Third Brake No.79 was photographed freshly outshopped from Preston Park.

[PLD]

? 17:20 Yorkshire Pullman
2nd Brake (Harrogate portion)
2nd Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
1st Parlour (Bradford Portion)
2nd Kitchen
Mk1 BCK     (Leeds Central)
2nd Kitchen (Hull Portion)
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
2nd Brake

1959 Yorkshire Pullman
2nd Brake (Harrogate)
2nd Kitchen (Harrogate)
2nd Kitchen (Harrogate)
1st Kitchen (Harrogate)
2nd Parlour (Harrogate)
1st Parlour (Bradford Exc)
2nd Kitchen (Bradford Exc)
Mk1 BCK     (Leeds)
2nd Kitchen (Hull)
2nd Parlour (Hull)
1st Kitchen (Hull)
2nd Brake (Hull)

The Yorkshire Pullman split at Leeds, with portions going to Bradford, Harrogate and Hull. In LNER days the Bradford portion ran as far as Halifax with a 0-6-2 tank engine in charge.

I was looking at the Hull portion of the YP as a prototypical short rake.  but Ive not found a photo (yet) I can definitively say is entirely all steel K types... I understood though that it was detached from the main portion at Doncaster rather than Leeds? Most common motive power between Hull & Donny appears to be a V1 or V3 tank, and it seems on occasions to have a full brake (Thompson or mk1) hung on the back...

[talisman56]

1959 Queen of Scots
2nd Kitchen (to Leeds)
1st Kitchen (to Leeds)
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen
2nd Parlour
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
2nd Kitchen
2nd Brake


1959 Master Cutler
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Brake

1959 Yorkshire Pullman
2nd Brake (Harrogate)
2nd Kitchen (Harrogate)
2nd Kitchen (Harrogate)
1st Kitchen (Harrogate)
2nd Parlour (Harrogate)
1st Parlour (Bradford Exc)
2nd Kitchen (Bradford Exc)
Mk1 BCK     (Leeds)
2nd Kitchen (Hull)
2nd Parlour (Hull)
1st Kitchen (Hull)
2nd Brake (Hull)

1963 Queen of Scots
2nd Parlour (removed at Leeds)
1st Kitchen (removed at Leeds)
2nd Brake
2nd Kitchen (Y)
2nd Parlour
1st Parlour
1st Kitchen
1st Kitchen
2nd Parlour
2nd Brake


1963 Tees-Tyne Pullman
2nd Brake
1st Parlour (FX)
2nd Kitchen (FO)
1st Kitchen
2nd Bar-Kitchen
1st Kitchen
1st Parlour
2nd Kitchen
2nd Brake


Steven B.

For the 1959 formations there must be some 'Standard' (wooden bodied) 'K'-types included as there is a need for 27 Pullmans for those services, and there were only 32 All-Steel K-types. Some spare vehicles must be allowed for.

The 1963 services would be Mark I Pullmans with 'K'-type Parlour Second Brakes.

The LNER (ER in British Railways days) tended to skim off the more modern stock and leave the Southern with the older stock on the Pullman roster. Between 1949 and the end of 1960 all the All-Steel 'K'-types were on the LNER/ER. It was only when the Mark I Pullmans were coming on stock that the transfers to the SR took place, for the 'Bournemouth Belle' and Ocean Liner services.