Hatton's Beyer-Garratt

[zwilnik]

Spoke to a very helpful chap on the Hattons Stand yesterday. I queried why no publicity for the Garratt and asked where it is at. the answer is that it is still at CAD stage and so far orders have been disappointing, it proceeding to tooling therefore appears far from a nailed on certainty currently. I queried the choice of model and apparently the reasoning in part at least was because their 00 model had been their best seller to date. According to this gentleman Hattons reckon N Gauge Market is 10-12% of 00, this is at odds with Bachmann and I do wonder (suspect) it reflects their experience currently without the Farish range to sell...

He did say that this lack of take up didn't necessarily mean their minds were closed to further models in N but the message seems clear, if you want an N Gauge Garratt then it doesn't seem like it will happen without more pre-orders.

Roy

I do wonder if it's partly because their initial publicity for it (which is usually the most effective) had it as only having one side powered, which made it seem a bit of a lightweight. Another factor could be from being announced at a time when some other pre-order manufacturers for N were cancelling or even going bust. Possibly some negativity towards pre-ordering models around then. As you mentioned, their lack of Bachmann stock and loss of a chunk of their N gauge regulars from that probably doesn't help either.

Either way, they're not exactly going to get pre-order sales without publicity.

[N_GaugeModeller]

And only days after they assured me it was still on target for its listed January 2020 delivery date they are saying to others its not even gone to tooling yet with probably not enough orders for them to even actually produce it.

I bet they would have had none of these issues if their first N-Gauge steamer had been a 9F 

Looks like Farish will be getting my loco allowance this year as their 8F looks to be on target for June 2020 (At long Last) with the Garratt now looking to be more like 2021 if at all now.

NGM

[trkilliman]

Personally I find the Beyer-Garratt a strange sort of choice. There are so many steam locos that could be done that would have a far greater appeal and probable take-up ...IMO.

Even the ill fated DJM King had limited appeal, as not everyone has either the room or desire for a mainline express set-up with a large rake of coaches. I have the room on my layout, but would not want a B.Garratt. I did want two DJM Kings, but hay-ho I got my deposits back.

In GWR/WR terms maybe a 4-6-0 County or large 42xx/72xx could have been a more attractive option, or perhaps an updated LMS Crab or S&D 2-8-0?

There is also scope for specific use carriages and TPOs that could be done.  Still, they did some research and came up with the B.Garratt, so who am I or we to question their choice?  That said the lack of orders must speak for itself here.  Just my two pennyworth guys.

[Roy L S]

BR Standard 4MT 4-6-0 was my suggestion although I did also suggest an LNER tank loco such as an N2.

Roy

[N_GaugeModeller]

Perhaps we should start a Hattons N-Gauge Wish List so they might have a clue as to what we actually want to buy.

Just a thought

NBM

[Capri_sam]

This is a real shame - I can see why pre-orders were poor as it was a niche choice for N but I rule 1'd one to help the project along and because i liked the idea of something really grand and a bit silly on the layout!

My thoughts are some kind of suburban tank with inside valve gear would have been a better seller if less visually exciting - failing that a Clayton or USA S-160 would have been a shake up! Actually given how widespread it was in the UK (briefly), worldwide and in preservation, someone really needs to do the S-160.

Nevertheless I like the Garrett idea and I'm sad to see it's looking unlikely.

[Roy L S]

Perhaps fairer to say less likely...

Regards

Roy

[Chris Morris]

There are a fair few locos not available in N that would have wide appeal.
A class 44/45/46 would be great although of course Farish might well retool theirs sometime.
GW types missing that come to mind are 63xx and a large prairie. The mogul was the most numerous tender loco built by the GWR and was quite a maid of all work doing everything from pick up goods to the odd express working.
Having said that Hattons must have a great deal of data on what models sell best.

[N_GaugeModeller]

I suspect announcing something as radical as the Garrett then end up not bothering with it because pre orders were not enough may do them more harm than good in this their first foray into n-gauge loco building,

I bet those over at Farish are having a good old chuckle at their expense.

[Dr Al]

Spoke to a very helpful chap on the Hattons Stand yesterday. I queried why no publicity for the Garratt and asked where it is at. the answer is that it is still at CAD stage and so far orders have been disappointing, it proceeding to tooling therefore appears far from a nailed on certainty currently. I queried the choice of model and apparently the reasoning in part at least was because their 00 model had been their best seller to date. According to this gentleman Hattons reckon N Gauge Market is 10-12% of 00, this is at odds with Bachmann and I do wonder (suspect) it reflects their experience currently without the Farish range to sell...

He did say that this lack of take up didn't necessarily mean their minds were closed to further models in N but the message seems clear, if you want an N Gauge Garratt then it doesn't seem like it will happen without more pre-orders.

Hattons have exactly the same problem DJM started to have - they've not yet delivered anything, so people don't know what to expect, so to pre-order feels a risk.

Moreover, the prototype is impressive, but not that common, so how widespread folk's desire of it is debatable. Furthermore, many who are willing and want a Garratt will have built the Skytrex kit (I fall into that category - I've built no less than 7 of them for myself and others over the years, and still have one to do).

For me therefore, I would struggle to justify pre-order, but would probably consider one once it turned up.

It's a shame that Hattons feel folk aren't interested - but I think they need to deliver something good quality first. Then trust will be established and they could build a N Gauge range. this is where I feel the whole pre-ordering thing is a minefield, as we've seen for different reasons with DJM.

Cheers,
Alan

[emjaybee]

In fairness to Hattons, they have produced their own stuff, albeit not in N, and you don't part with cash when you pre-order, and they're a well established and financially sound business.

[Dr Al]

In fairness to Hattons, they have produced their own stuff, albeit not in N, and you don't part with cash when you pre-order, and they're a well established and financially sound business.

I don't doubt any of that. I wasn't implying they'd be the next DJM, or there's any risk in terms of the financial or business side of things.

But they have no experience in N, and that showed with the first design choice on the Garratt - a single motor, to which a lot queried and weren't convince it was a good design choice. Hattons acknoledged and changed, but it shows that they are early days in terms of N - they or the manufacturer they are working with (it seems a lot of their O and OO is actually made by Heljan, who also don't do N). As such, I'm sure at least some potential buyers would wait until seeing what they produced and the quality and performance of it before deciding.

Cheers,
Alan

[red_death]

I suspect that there are multiple factors at play here:
- what sells well in 4mm is no guarantee of sure sales in 2mm (and vice versa)
- Hattons aren't asking for financial commitment but also that means where is the imperative for people to pre-order? Is the production run limited?
- personally I wouldn't be worried that an inexperienced N manufacturer listens to ideas and changes the spec accordingly - that shows they are listening (plus many of the factories they will be working with will be very familiar with N, albeit not something like the Beyer Garratt).
- is the model the right one? It certainly makes a strong statement, but for the vast majority of purchasers I guess it is going to be a rule 1 purchase

If decisions are being made based on the level of pre-orders then I think you have to tell your potential customers that otherwise hundreds of people could be sat there thinking they just need to wait for the model to arrive.

Cheers Mike

[Newportnobby]

I might have liked one if I had a larger layout as, to my mind, such a loco with anything less than 40-50 mineral wagons hanging off it would not look right. For many who have chosen N gauge owing to lack of space that would mean a real tail-chaser and, I'm sorry, would look somewhat ridiculous.
Yes - it could run light engine/ + a brake van or two and could clank past (in my mind as I can't stand N gauge sound) but it's an expensive engine for such.
I feel they should maybe have plumped for something smaller/more widespread on the network as their first offering

[Dickydcc]

£228 for a sound fitted loco is not a bad price & it's a good spec, with the double chassis & all. That said I accept the comments that it really is too big for Thetford Rd, to look right our max is about 7-8 coaches. As for sound we now have 3 & you just can't put up with them all going round at once!!