Controller problem?

[Thebaz]

Got everything ready to do the first live testing of my layout this evening (see link to layout thread)

][https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47870.msg610928#msg610928]

Unfortunately it did not go as well as I would have liked. I have one of the popular Gaugemaster D controllers which I bought brand new and have barely used (as the layout I'm building is my first ever). Whilst I noted that power to the tracks was a consistent 15-20 V when checked with my multimeter trains would only work off Track1. When I tried to switch cabs train movement ceased although power still appeared to be running to the track. Fearing that I'd laid some dodgy wiring I disconnected the cab control setup and checked circuits with each cab seperately. Track1 worked, but Track2 did not. The LED changed to yellow and power went to the tracks (23-26V on the multimeter) but nothing would move. I then connected a seperate piece of track to the controller and checked voltage again. Track1 was 15-22V whilst Track2 ranged from 60 to 85! See picture.

This discovery led to me checking the AC output terminals for the point motors - these showed a somewhat underpowered 7-10V which may be why the turnout motors fail to fire?

Now I'm no electronic genius but I'm pretty sure that these output terminals are putting out the wrong voltage. Would a too high voltage overload the train motor and prevent it from moving? Either way I anticipate a phone call to gaugemaster tomorrow morning.

[ntpntpntp]

Silly questions perhaps but:

Are you sure you're using the multimeter correctly?  I think you have it set to the 2 Volt range in the picture, and it's showing 0.083 V (ie almost nothing).

Testing on a separate piece of track like that doesn't prove anything more than applying the meter probes directly to the output terminals. 

Are you sure you've wired to the correct terminals?

There would have to be something seriously wrong internally for the track outputs to be reading the values you quote.  Did you have the meter on an AC setting when you tested the AC output?

[jpendle]

As @ntpntpntp said, your voltmeter is reading 83mV, which means that the track output is off.
Forgive me for asking but you have turned the control knob for output 2 to try to change the voltage output haven't you?
Also you don't need any track connected to the controller to check its outputs.
Connect your voltmeter directly to track/output one. Select the 20V range on the voltmeter. Slowly turn the knob on the controller for track one, you should see the output voltage increase from zero to 12V.
Do the same for output two.

Regards,

John P

[Thebaz]

Perfectly valid questions. It could be I'm using the meter wrongly. I had it on the 20V setting initially when testing but the readings didn't make sense so I switched to 2V and they then appeared to make sense... but perhaps its still wrong.

There doesn't appear to be an AC setting, in fact instructions for checking AC appear to be the same as for checking DC.

Yes, they were wired to the correct terminals. I tried both way round to make sure.

Still, none of this explains why Track2 controller send power to the tracks but doesn't move the train.

[chrism]

One question does spring to mind.
You haven't wired up the track so that the sections all use a common return on one rail and the cab control selections only switch the other rail, have you?
I understand that that can do some funny things due to from which transformer winding the various outputs are sourced.
I did that (one rail common) using a Gaugemaster 100 for one controller and a Gaugemaster Combi for the other, powered from the 100s 16v AC output. The result was that if the 100s controller was set one way everything worked OK but if it was set the other way the Combi pushed out 30v+ with no control whatsoever.

[Fardap]

Got everything ready to do the first live testing of my layout this evening (see link to layout thread)
Whilst I noted that power to the tracks was a consistent 15-20 V when checked with my multimeter trains would only work off Track1. When I tried to switch cabs train movement ceased although power still appeared to be running to the track. Fearing that I'd laid some dodgy wiring I disconnected the cab control setup and checked circuits with each cab seperately. Track1 worked, but Track2 did not. The LED changed to yellow and power went to the tracks (23-26V on the multimeter) but nothing would move. I then connected a seperate piece of track to the controller and checked voltage again. Track1 was 15-22V whilst Track2 ranged from 60 to 85! See picture.

First thing is to do the tests directly on the controller - as has been said the reading on the meter is 0.085v, when you move the controller speed adjust this should climb up to 12v ish.

The meter you are using you are correctly set up to measure DC if you wanted to measure AC then you would move the knob to the 1/2 O'clock position - DC is indicated on the label as a Solid Line and Dotted line above each other and AC as a wavy line (sine wave) ~

I don't know the controller but assume the accessories output is an AC 24v output so this would need to be measured on the 2 O'clock 200v ~ range.

First thing though is connect to the rear 'track' terminals on 20v DC range and see if moving the controller changes the voltage 0-12v

[Thebaz]

One question does spring to mind.
You haven't wired up the track so that the sections all use a common return on one rail and the cab control selections only switch the other rail, have you?
I understand that that can do some funny things due to from which transformer winding the various outputs are sourced.
I did that (one rail common) using a Gaugemaster 100 for one controller and a Gaugemaster Combi for the other, powered from the 100s 16v AC output. The result was that if the 100s controller was set one way everything worked OK but if it was set the other way the Combi pushed out 30v+ with no control whatsoever.

Yes I've done exactly that - common return from all sections. The Gaugemaster D controller has two windings and the instructions state that common return from tracks feeds should be absolutely fine (don't mix it up with the AC common return though!). However after the first series of tests where both cabs were connected, I disconnected the second cab completely and reverted to testing from one cab only. I then disconnected that and did the same for the second cab so there could be no accidental current crosovers.

[Thebaz]

Got everything ready to do the first live testing of my layout this evening (see link to layout thread)
Whilst I noted that power to the tracks was a consistent 15-20 V when checked with my multimeter trains would only work off Track1. When I tried to switch cabs train movement ceased although power still appeared to be running to the track. Fearing that I'd laid some dodgy wiring I disconnected the cab control setup and checked circuits with each cab seperately. Track1 worked, but Track2 did not. The LED changed to yellow and power went to the tracks (23-26V on the multimeter) but nothing would move. I then connected a seperate piece of track to the controller and checked voltage again. Track1 was 15-22V whilst Track2 ranged from 60 to 85! See picture.

First thing is to do the tests directly on the controller - as has been said the reading on the meter is 0.085v, when you move the controller speed adjust this should climb up to 12v ish.

The meter you are using you are correctly set up to measure DC if you wanted to measure AC then you would move the knob to the 1/2 O'clock position - DC is indicated on the label as a Solid Line and Dotted line above each other and AC as a wavy line (sine wave) ~

I don't know the controller but assume the accessories output is an AC 24v output so this would need to be measured on the 2 O'clock 200v ~ range.

First thing though is connect to the rear 'track' terminals on 20v DC range and see if moving the controller changes the voltage 0-12v

Thanks for the tip on the meter - I was definitely measuring the AC wrongly then. AC output from this controller is 16V

[Thebaz]

Okay rechecked the controller tonight - all outputs putting out correct voltage. 

Now to find out: a) what the actual problem is and b) how to solve it.