Sonic 51xx Large Prairie - Disappointing Runner

Smokebox Door · July 19, 2024, 03:17:01 PM

Well, what a palaver! The new model arrived as a nice surprise (although I wasn't expecting to pay postage). Off it went onto the layout but it didn't get very far at all.

There was a tight spot which meant a jerk on every rotation of the driving wheels and then it halted when it encountered the first point - with the driving wheels rotating uselessly. The front and rear trucks had conspired to lift them clear of the track! Now this point is a new Peco medium radius unifrog so I was a bit taken aback. Poor runner I decided (corroborated
by members of my N Gauge Society area group as they saw it running too) - time to contact the retailer.

The customary video was requested and duly dispatched and a postage return label was received so off it went. If what happened next is a reflection of the accepted quality standard then I'm afraid, I'm out.....

After receiving a reminder to send the video - it was sent again. Next a message arrived asking what the observed fault was as none could be found. The video hadn't been seen so I sent it again. Still no fault found so what to do? Well, I was advised that as a kind gesture, I would receive a replacement (well, I have spent a bob or two at this retailer). What I received was another request to get in touch as the matter needed to be resolved. Hmmm. A reply outlining the previously offered outcome was met by a response that a replacement could not be issued when there isn't a fault found. OK, kindly give me a refund and we can call it a day (oh, and the request for the video - it can be found in the message trail).

I next received a call apologising as there had been a communication problem at the retailer but a replacement would be sent immediately. As promised, it promptly arrived so out it went onto the track. It has a tested sticker on the wrapper so I was expecting good things. Er, no!

This 51XX ran over the point the previous one (if it was a previous one) didn't but it was still a bit jerky as there seems to be a tight spot on every rotation of the driving wheels still. Maybe that will disappear with running so rather prematurely, I sent a message to the retailer confirming receipt.
After a decent run in, I attached six MK1s that other locos have no problem pulling. However, this loco struggled to pull the leading coach over the frog of the first point it encountered but having done so and despite some wheel slip, the rest of the train ran through. This slipping was repeated at every point in the circuit.

I have an upper deck that is reached by a 2.5% incline. The loco stalled as soon as it hit the bottom of the incline (it did climb it when running light). I pushed it past the transition from level but it didn't gain any traction. It eventually managed to haul just two coaches with some wheel slipping (it also rocked from side to side under load while doing so).

I am underwhelmed by the performance of this model. Despite its handsome appearance, it has a flaw - over-springing of the lead and trailing trucks (which was reported recently in N Gauge News) and is not a very smooth runner. That it cost in excess of £130 (including postage) and has been effectively certified by the retailer as being fit for purpose is disappointing. Trouble is, it arrived more or less at the same time as did the Revolution class 59. Chalk and cheese!

ntpntpntp · July 19, 2024, 03:39:11 PM

That's a shame.

"customary video"? A good idea to have evidence available but the first time I've ever heard of a shop asking for one as part of a return. Can we see it on here, just for interest?

I wonder if the first one had a droopy coupling or brake rigging causing it to catch on points?

Lumpy running is disappointing of course, if it doesn't sort itself out after running in. Usually either a wheel quartering issue or part of the rods/linkage is bent and catching.

Smokebox Door · July 19, 2024, 05:35:05 PM

Here's a link to the video posted on YouTube....
https://youtube.com/shorts/bHw91DlPY90

Southerngooner · July 19, 2024, 05:55:53 PM

There's been a lot said about this on another thread.
Check out this:

Quote from: Snowwolflair on June 26, 2024, 03:00:54 PMBob Tidbury found that the rear pony of his model which is forced down by a spring was lifting the rear driving wheels. My models did not have the problem but fixing it made a vast difference in the pulling power of his loco.

He clipped a few coils off the spring.

Worth checking if you are getting poor traction.

If you had put "Sonic Prairie" in the search box you could have found this and saved yourself a lot of typing!

Dave

martyn · July 19, 2024, 07:32:58 PM

If I've read the tables correctly, then 2.5% grade is 1:40.

If so, that's a heck of a grade on the real railway in UK practice. Shap was regarded as steep at 1:75...If your other locos cope, then they're probably doing better than the real thing.

I'd go back to Rails and if no joy, contact Sonic via the email address on the instructions. The two I've been using do run really well.

The adjustment of springs seems to have worked for some, but the two at home take eight on the flat and six or seven up 1:100 with 15" curves.

Martyn

ntpntpntp · July 19, 2024, 10:32:20 PM

Hmmm... yes that is very bad running in that video, beyond a simple case of needing running in.

The slippage looks to be where you have a noticeable change in gradient at the rail joint after the point, so the driving wheels are losing grip because they're lifted off the track by the front and rear pony wheels. Granted there have been comments about the springing on those wheels but I suspect you could do with easing the transition across that joint.

Bob Tidbury · July 20, 2024, 08:25:34 AM

Since clipping 3 coils of the spring of the rear pony truck my Sonic Prairie now pulls 10 Peco 4 wheeled tanks with a buffer van and a toad brake van ,
One member on here said he removed both springs and his loco still ran through his point work .I might try that to increase the hauling power of my loco but its rather hot in the shed at the moment .If it does improve it I will keep the springs in a plastic bag in the box just in case .By the way the pony trucks just clip in and have tiny pickup wires so its an easy job to remove the springs but they are tiny so dont loose them .

Looking at that video I think the problem is caused by the springs lifting all the drive wheels of the track so relying on the pickups on the pony wheels .
I am sure Sonic will sort it out ,Sam is a very nice man I met him at TINGS and we had a nice chat .

Roy L S · July 20, 2024, 09:59:12 AM

The first thing I would say is that my Prairie runs a lot quieter that that one, it could be the surface it is running on, but noticeable.

Secondly, my loco runs very smoothly and has none of the "sticking" of the wheels when rotating and that looks like more than a running in issue to me, I would be sending it back as it isn't fit for purpose.

I think I am correct in saying that as it was bought online, under distance selling regulations you are entitled to return it for a refund within a certain period - "right to cancel" - this is a legal right and you do not need a reason to cancel but will likely have to pay for return postage.

https://www.gov.uk/online-and-distance-selling-for-businesses

As regards it losing traction on that point in the video, I would agree that looks more about tracklaying than any fault with the loco, but shortening or removing the pony truck springs might still help.

Lastly, while you could approach Sonic and it isn't for me to say "don't" at all, your contract is with Rails and if the model, it's replacement or as many replacements as it takes to get a good one is not fit for purpose is down to them. Subject to a few constraints if not fit for purpose they are obliged to repair or replace it under the Consumer Rights Act.

Roy

Kris · July 20, 2024, 10:29:54 AM

My Prairie is a little bit of a sticky runner, nothing like this one is showing. It has improved with running in. It's starting is weak but again improving. Maybe some more running in will help, if not then I am hoping that DCC will help, the chip is waiting to be fitted.

ntpntpntp · July 20, 2024, 11:19:53 AM

Quote from: Kris on July 20, 2024, 10:29:54 AMMy Prairie is a little bit of a sticky runner, ... I am hoping that DCC will help, the chip is waiting to be fitted.

Never expect DCC to sort out running problems. You need the mechanism to be running smoothly before you fit DCC.

At most the decoder's built-in PWM and feedback might improve things a little but really it's just masking the problem so if the loco isn't right it should be returned, replaced, serviced or whatever is appropriate.

Dr Al · July 20, 2024, 11:34:52 AM

You should have immediately quoted UK legislation - assuming a distance sale, you have the right to return for any reason within a set amount of time - no need to supply any reason, never mind videos and any other nonsense.

Cheers,
Alan

Smokebox Door · July 20, 2024, 07:47:47 PM

I could return the loco but I want a 51XX of my choice, not a refund. This is not the first time that I have received a 'tested' loco that has a running issue.

I was aware of the other thread referred to earlier but hadn't read enough of it to realise that the pre-production discussion had continued post production. Now that I have read through it all and have watched a video of a 51XX creeping along in a way that mine cannot, I'm irritated even more about how I have been fobbed off.

After several hours of continuous running, pulling a rake of a half dozen Mk1 coaches, the behaviour of my 51XX hasn't changed - it still has a slight limp and the driving wheels slip on every point frog. Time to give the pony truck spring shortening a go me thinks.

Ensign Elliott · July 20, 2024, 09:17:08 PM

That's disappointing to hear. Mine also had a slight tight spot so it was returned to Rails on the 26th June. After being asked to send a video, which I did, I'm still waiting to receive my replacement. Hoping it runs ok.

Ensign Elliott · July 21, 2024, 02:05:14 PM

An update on mine. The replacement loco from Rails arrived today (Sunday!). Annoyingly, Rails have just sent the very same loco back to me - I know this because I put a tiny amount of superglue onto one of the boiler supports which had come adrift in the box on original delivery. Its the same loco, with the same tight spot and Rails have done nothing at all to address the issue or replace the loco other than to waste my time.

geofff · July 21, 2024, 07:14:48 PM

My Sonic box has no address to return the item, just an e-mail address and you hope that they will contact you. Therefore, it just leaves you to return to the retailer and I believe that the retailer's responsibility is time limited (less than the warranty) under the distance trading legislation. So maybe the best option is to keep returning to Rails until you are satisfied, (or the time limit expires), or as suggested , ask for full refund.