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Author Topic: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points  (Read 7147 times)

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Offline Newportnobby

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Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« on: May 12, 2017, 02:54:53 pm »
Following on from the Layout Planning section the board has been constructed. Thanks go to outofgauge (Neil) for donation of the board which I trimmed to size and used the off cuts to create 'disaster guards'.


The corners have been reinforced with wooden blocks and it measures approx 4ft 4in x 2ft.

I have purchased track to create an oval with a small passing loop - end curves 282mm radius and 2 x #4 points to create the loop. Again, thanks to Neil for helping out with some bits of track, of which more later. The track is powered by a simple Bachmann controller from the 'Master Cutler' train set pack.

It takes about an hour to set up and slightly less to put everything away so this morning some testing was carried out..............
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bcftu6drmxnc7o6/Class%2024%20on%20Kato%20test%20track.MOV?dl=0

I started by testing a few diesels as I guessed there may not be any issues with the points and successfully ran the following in both directions through the loop and bypassing the loop:-

372-936 Farish class 24
371-177 Farish class 40
ND145B Dapol class 26
2D-001-003 Dapol class 33

My 371-050A Farish 04 was mostly OK but every now and then something seemed to catch on the point and it just sat there with wheels spinning.

Onto some steamers and I immediately had problems as the first one didn't like running straight off the end curves onto the point. Luckily I had anticipated this and scrounged 4 x 29mm straights from Neil so added one each before the points (the other 2 were to balance up the lengths of each side)

Successful running was had with:-

372-327 Farish 3MT tank
372-625 Farish Ivatt 2MT 2-6-0
372-078 Farish B1
372-753 Farish Fairburn tank

Trials with the Farish 374-427 WD 2-8-0 did not go well, with the tender derailing when running tender fist and the front pony derailing when running forward. I consider this a failure but will see if a small amount of weight added to the pony truck will solve the problem.

Please remember the idea of this testing is possible complete replacement of my Peco code 55 with Kato track but everything I have must run through #4 points as the #6 points are 40mm longer, space I cannot afford.

What has impressed me is no insulated joiners were required and the points automatically change frog polarity. (TBH, so they should at 25 each!)

So, 10 down. Only another 90 locos/units or so to test :help:

@outofgauge
@Lawrence
@scotsoft

Offline Jerry Howlett

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2017, 03:20:26 pm »
By the photo you are obviously using the unique Kato "Invisible track" with built in Magnadhesion borrowed from those former ) Gauge stalwarts Triang.

Bet even a Dapol 14xx can pull an 8 coach train over those gradients.
Some days its just not worth gnawing through the straps.

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2017, 10:12:35 pm »

What has impressed me is no insulated joiners were required and the (Kato #4) points automatically change frog polarity. (TBH, so they should at 25 each!)


but they are motorised, power switching, and IMHE , extremely reliable!
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Offline Only Me

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2017, 10:17:59 pm »
Mick i strongly suggest you brace that half way along the length from edge to edge otherwise it will warp...



Offline PeteW

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2017, 02:52:39 am »
Nice bit of ply.

And to Only Me's point, I've used a lot of ply in a pretty damp garage with no warping, but a mid-way brace couldn't hurt.


Offline ten0G

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2017, 10:53:13 am »
I have purchased track to create an oval with a small passing loop - end curves 282mm radius and 2 x #4 points to create the loop.
...
Trials with the Farish 374-427 WD 2-8-0 did not go well, with the tender derailing when running tender fist and the front pony derailing when running forward.

I found this also occurred with both ends of my WD and Dapol prairie when using 315mm rad curves and #6 points, only cured by inserting a 62mm straight (the shortest I had at the time) between the point and curve. 

So, 10 down. Only another 90 locos/units or so to test :help:

Good luck with that! 

Offline dodger

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2017, 01:11:38 pm »
Mick

Your experiences are much the same as I found 2 years ago. Multiple units were OK but the only steamers that were satisfactory were the West Country's (Poole made) and the Q1. Fiddling with back to back's on the Ivatt tanks, M7's and Poole 2-6-4 tanks improved the performance as did introducing a short straight but not enough for satisfactory running.

The only way I could solve the problem was to use either Peco code 80 or Kato no6 points.

Dodger

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2017, 01:20:27 pm »

I found this also occurred with both ends of my WD and Dapol prairie when using 315mm rad curves and #6 points, only cured by inserting a 62mm straight (the shortest I had at the time) between the point and curve. 


Mick

Your experiences are much the same as I found 2 years ago. Multiple units were OK but the only steamers that were satisfactory were the West Country's (Poole made) and the Q1. Fiddling with back to back's on the Ivatt tanks, M7's and Poole 2-6-4 tanks improved the performance as did introducing a short straight but not enough for satisfactory running.

The only way I could solve the problem was to use either Peco code 80 or Kato no6 points.

Dodger

Interesting comments. Thank you.
#6 points are out of the question as I'm not prepared to compromise on the track design. I've never had the need for a back2back gauge and, again, am not prepared to fiddle about with locos etc.
Some may say I'm not giving Kato track a fair testing but it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't I'll just sell the Kato track off

Online Bealman

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2017, 01:39:19 pm »
Just saw this. I didn't think he was serious, folks.

Proven wrong again!  ;D
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2017, 01:44:05 pm »
Just saw this. I didn't think he was serious, folks.

Proven wrong again!  ;D

 :P  :wave:

Offline RailGooner

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2017, 02:17:30 pm »

I found this also occurred with both ends of my WD and Dapol prairie when using 315mm rad curves and #6 points, only cured by inserting a 62mm straight (the shortest I had at the time) between the point and curve. 


Mick

Your experiences are much the same as I found 2 years ago. Multiple units were OK but the only steamers that were satisfactory were the West Country's (Poole made) and the Q1. Fiddling with back to back's on the Ivatt tanks, M7's and Poole 2-6-4 tanks improved the performance as did introducing a short straight but not enough for satisfactory running.

The only way I could solve the problem was to use either Peco code 80 or Kato no6 points.

Dodger

Interesting comments. Thank you.
#6 points are out of the question as I'm not prepared to compromise on the track design. I've never had the need for a back2back gauge and, again, am not prepared to fiddle about with locos etc.
Some may say I'm not giving Kato track a fair testing but it either works or it doesn't. If it doesn't I'll just sell the Kato track off

Testing first hand to see if it's fit for YOUR purpose - can't fault that. :thumbsup:
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Offline keithbythe sea

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2017, 08:49:19 pm »
Thanks for posting this really useful practical research Mick. As a newcomer to the business I naively think that stuff will work out of the box. My experience in life (quite long now) tells me otherwise. However, it's great that this kind of information is here on the forum.  :thankyousign:

Offline David Asquith

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2017, 09:31:09 pm »
I'm in the middle of changing all my Peco points for Kato ones.  Both 4's and 6's depending which I can get to fit without changing the track plan.  I've had some rough running through Peco points and point motors failing so all singing and dancing Kato points are a god send.  I'm really pleased I decided to change to them.  I've even gone for the double concrete track curves for a semicircle under a hill (removeable) for smoother running - the one I asked the forum about the diameter of with Kato curves.  I haven't got any steamers but my diesels, all DCC, are having no problems,

Dave

Offline Malc

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2017, 10:14:36 pm »
I think Mike Fifer did a video about modifying Kato points to improve running.
I'm not sure if life is passing me by, or trying to run me over.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Nobby's Kato test track deliberately using #4 points
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2017, 10:20:21 pm »
I think Mike Fifer did a video about modifying Kato points to improve running.


@Malc
He did, Malc, and I've seen it. I'm sure he believed that Kato had, themselves, made the necessary alterations to the #4 points but I can't verify this.

 

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