Can one person operate two stations successfully?

[N-Gauge-US]

I have been struggling for some weeks to settle on a layout design for a spare room I have. One of the major things that has dogged me is that I really enjoy seeing locomotives in motion more than I enjoy shunting operations (I find all the currently available uncoupling systems too fiddly and hand of god really breaks the illusion of the scene for me). I have a decent amount of space available and have drawn up a number of plans involving multiple stations - usually on opposite walls with runs between them. This all seemed fine to me until I sat down in the room and tried to envision running things. I realized that my eyes only face one way  I had initially planned on including lots of automated operations, but I think this is unrealistic and would add massive amounts of complication. Without automation, I have serious doubts about how effectively I could make use of two stations. I don't have another operator (ever- my fiance is not interested in operating duties and the only local n scale club is small and very definitely not interested in UK outline  ), so I have to get some sort of idea of what I can realistically accomplish alone. I think I can manage hidden fiddle yards, using IR or photoreflector detectors to indicate when a train is fully in the section and marking which road each locomotive's permanent home is on the switch panel. But can I juggle four trains in steam (one in each station, up and down)? My suspicion is 'no' and that if I want four trains in steam, I need to have both a fast and slow up and down line (ie four lanes total), but I would love to get some feedback from some of you who have more complicated layouts, as surely all of you can't have extra operators handy at each running session! Thanks in advance for any advice and sorry about the rambling nature of the post (lots of thoughts in my head, all fighting to get out!).

Philip

[Karhedron]

A layout that is a chore to operate is likely to disappoint.

It sounds like you are after a "watching trains go by" sort of layout. One idea that might work is a tear-drop shaped layout with a continuous run loop included. Trains start off from the terminus and run onto the loop, they can then run for as long as you fancy before you bring them back to the terminus and set off the next train. You can make this arrangement double-track or even 4-track if you want.

The only time you need to intervene in the operation is when trains join of leave the circuit as other trains may need to be held at the junction until the line is cleared. If you want, you don't even have to have a terminus station, you could run trains into a fiddle yard.

What sort of period are you looking to model?

[CarriageShed]

Perhaps have the two track main line, with the odd passing loop (in the countryside and at the stations) so that the slow trains can be moved when the fast ones are (isolated) in a station.

You could also have a Controller 3 to take command of the sidings on one side of the layout and a Controller 4 for the other side, so that the main line trains can carry on running round and round while you do a bit of independent shunting at the station of your choice.

[Steven B]

Have a look at the range of automatic train controllers available from Heathcote Electronics:
https://www.heathcote-electronics.co.uk/heathcote_prices_and_ordering.html

They've got a range of systems that will allow you to watch the trains go by. I'm note sure if they'll sell & ship to the USA but there may be something similar available locally.

Happy modelling.

Steven B.

[Newportnobby]

From the same supplier you could get a 'shuttle control' such that you could have a small branch line train (2-3 car DMU), but basically I'd say 'no' to your posed question.
I do have twin main running lines with a shared goods loop for slower trains to get out of the way of expresses which adds a bit of interest. (see the bottom most track plan but ignore the set track as I used code 55)

[ntpntpntp]

Have a look at the range of automatic train controllers available from Heathcote Electronics...

I'll second the Heathcote products, I've used several of the IR detectors, a grade crossing control module and a shuttle module.     I really like the IR detection not requiring magnets or what-have-you fitted to the stock, the most I've done is stick a white paper circle under something if the chassis wasn't quite reflective enough.

[railsquid]

Having been pootling around with a large-ish layout space for quite a while, I've worked out that what I mainly want is to be able to run 1 ~ 3 trains in circles. At least one of the trains should run an interesting course around the layout, running in and out of tunnels etc. in a mildly unpredictable way. I need to be able to swap trains out as I get bored with them. This is unfortunate for any residents of the layout expecting a sane train service, but they're not paying the bills.The other thing I want is to get the layout into a state where I can take photographs which make it look like a plausible model of a real railway from the correct angles, but actually operating it like a real railway sounds like too much work

[Newportnobby]

This is unfortunate for any residents of the layout expecting a sane train service, but they're not paying the bills.

[Bealman]

On the branch of my layout there are three stations and two control sections and panels. I shunt the largish terminus, set the train on its way, then walk up to the next panel and accept the train.

I drop goods off or pick up at the two stations there, then dispatch the train off for the mainline. I then walk around to a third panel to accept the train onto the mainline.

It's all DC.

It may sound to be a bit of a chore,  but I actually find it satisfying.

[N-Gauge-US]

Thanks everyone for the excellent feedback! Some good ideas and excellent information here. A few additional points about the layout as planned, based on questions above:

-DCC control of locomotives
-Steam era (pre-BR; location non-specific, perhaps Oxfordshire)
-I want to run a mix of mainline and branchline locomotives, preferably with long trains (some with 10 coaches or 20-30 Coal wagons).

I'm undecided on point control. Initially I planned on using DCC point control and running the whole thing from a DCC++ Arduino system hooked up to a raspberry Pi or similar with a touchscreen interface (and wireless keyboard for programming). While the overall control system is likely to remain the same, I'm not sure I want to have DCC control for the points/fiddle yard, as a control panel with switches and point position indicator and occupancy sensor lights seems like it would be easier to monitor and control. Being unable to see the fiddle yard adds lots of wiring! 

As for shuttles/block control, Heathcote seems to have a good range of stuff and I have a Blocksignalling DCC Shuttle which I'm very happy with. It's just set up on a test board right now but the acceleration and deceleration are very fine when cv values are adjusted and it can accommodate station stops or running a loop. I'm planning a wrap-around shelf for the train room (at head level) with a hidden loop at each end (giving the appearance of double track running), which will include stopping sections inside both hidden loops and another at the station. This will allow for me to run long trains automaticallly and is part of how I've realized I prefer just watching trains go by!

Blocksignalling have DCC block control modules that detect and start or stop trains based on 2, 3 or 4 aspect signals, which would allow me to break each line into three sections, putting two trains in each loop on an automated schedule of sorts (I think), but I would really prefer to use the Dapol semaphores or ratio semaphores with servos to achieve the same thing (I need to email him to ask if this is possible or would be a potential future project; he's very friendly and willing to give advice, in my experience).

Short of that, I think I would end up making a mess of things by trying to control each train individually (though a strict timetable/operations list might help alleviate some of that). I'm like railsquid in that I want to watch trains go by but get bored quickly with the same train and need to swap them out - hence the fiddle yard. I've also considered passing loops in the countryside, as carriageshed suggested, but wasn't sure how common they were in the U.K. (They are everywhere here, but most of that is because of single track operation). Any storage I can manage out front is extremely advantageous, so I will be investigating that!

Thank you very much everyone for the good advice. I'm going to try to digest it and make some decisions about how to move forward with the planning. I'm on the fence about creating a smaller layout to test a few of these features, but I think I will probably plan on building the layout in stages (i.e. Station and loops first, fiddle yard later), as the cost of building the smaller layout rapidly approaches the cost of the much larger one minus the fiddle yard! I'm sure I'll post more about it once it's decided

Thanks again!

Philip

[AndyRA]

I think one of the main considerations if you are going to operate the two station concept is putting the control functions close together. I arranged mine so they are along each side of the Operating Well. They are close enough so I can use a good office chair that swivels between the two and can move along on wheels too. Sat in the chair brings you down to just above eye level.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=45268

The four main lines can run in 'Auto' mode using the Heathcote Storage Yard modules. Yards A, B, C, and D. Each of the four main lines has ten sidings each to ensure a reasonable turnover of stock. The Controllers are pre-set at the same power setting at a compromise speed to compensate for the different motor types (this took a bit of trial and error), and so the four main lines could be left to run themselves.
I could then run several of the Independent Lines as I wanted. At Junction J you can do some shunting in the Sidings or Loco Yard. The Branch operates into Yard 'S' as either an out and back shuttle, or through the Yard 'S' to station H. This is when the swivel chair comes in useful. At station J the Suburban New Line platforms can be run to Yard 'E', or over to station H and Yard F. Operating at station H the Branch Line can operate down to Yard S in the same way as from station J. The New Line tracks can be operated from Yard F to the station H Reversing sidings, or round to J. At station H the small Goods Yard Y has a small operating panel with a Wander Lead Controller should I prefer to do a bit of shunting.
The Yards S, E, and F have simple train detection fitted. This consists of magnetic micro-switches between the rails, with the trains fitted with several miniature magnets fitted underneath the stock. As most of the trains are usually 'captive' to these Yards only that stock needed fitting.

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=45308
Panel H

http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?action=gallery;sa=view;id=45309
Panel J

Finally, do things run okay? Mostly yes, but things can go wrong occasionally 
https://www.flickr.com/photos/8888017@N08/31385411733/in/dateposted-public/

Andy.

[N-Gauge-US]

WOW!!!! That is an unbelievably impressive control set-up! I'm going to be spending some time studying it for inspiration. A beautiful and professional looking display (if perhaps a bit daunting). The knowledge that you can let the four main lines run independently while 'playing' with other trains in another section is very intriguing and I will have to give this a bit more thought! Thanks very much for the pictures and the breakdown of how the operations work. Gives me lots to think about in terms of incorporating both automation and manual control.   

Philip

[Newportnobby]

Now there's a thought. Pedals for acceleration and braking like a car, leaving hands free to do all manner of other things with the railway

[AndyRA]

The Control Panels were made up from 2 x 1 Timber framing, with Hardboard surfacing. The Hardboard was painted in ordinary matt grey undercoat. The track diagram was carefully marked out in light pencil. The track sections were made by using Model Technics 'TrimLine' tape, available in numerous colours and widths. The position of the switches and LEDs were then marked. Labelling was done on the computer and printed out, cut to size and stuck in place where required. The whole thing was then covered with transparent plastic sheet which protects the lining tape and numbering, helps protect against any inadvertent teacup rings and spillages . The holes for the switches and LEDs were then carefully drilled out. Plus the insets to position the Controllers.
It may look daunting, but if you plan it carefully the result is well worth the effort. It is always better to have the panel slightly too big so as you don't end up with trying to squeeze too much into a small area. 

Andy.