WR coaches

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 01:55:08 PM

I'm looking to get a rake of coaches suitable for western region around the 1962 year and was wondering if the following would be suitable.
All mk1s bsk maroon ck choc/cream ck maroon sk maroon bg choc/cream
I thought about putting an Hawksworth into the mix but I've only been able to find them in gwr or crimson/cream. I only want a five or six rake max. Suggestions please as to what to keep in and what to replace with something else.

dodger · December 09, 2016, 03:07:19 PM

There is nothing wrong with your rake but there are many possible variations to consider. eg BCK/SK instead of BSK/CK, FK/SK not CK/CK, possibly only one CK. It really depends what purpose the set serves, self contained or a portion detached from a longer rake.

Dodger

johnlambert · December 09, 2016, 03:56:31 PM

If the train is supposed to be a longer distance service you might want to include a catering vehicle of some sort, probably arranged near the first class accommodation. I have seen photos from as late as 1964 (I think) where the train included one Choc/Cream and one Crimson/Cream among the maroon coaches.

Something like; BSK, SK, RU, CK, BSK

Or as a six-coach train; BSK, SK, SK, RU, FK, BSK (or substitute BCK or BG)

In trains like those I would go for 4/5 coaches in maroon with 1 in either Crimson/Cream or Choc/Cream or 4/6 in maroon and one each of Crimson/Cream and Choc/Cream.

The above is based on what I think is plausible based on the bits of research I've done. I'm sure if they're wrong someone will correct me.

On the real railway Hawksworth and Collett coaches had slightly different gangways and needed an adapter plate to connect with BR Mk1 stock. You would generally see the older coaches arranged together at one end of the train so you could have a Hawksworth BSK in Crimson/Cream at one end of the train, possibly coupled to a Hawksworth SK and the rest of the train made up of BR Mk1 coaches.

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 03:59:47 PM

The only problem I have with the bck is finding one new that isn't weathered as one of my first idea's was bck sk sk ck bg. Finding the right stock is a pita. I suppose It could he either self contained or a detached portion as the layout will just be western region themed and not based on a particular area I just wanted to throw a passenger train into the mix for some additional interest among the freight trains. I've already got two mk1 BGs that's why I included one in the rake but I suppose I could use them in a parcels train instead to add even more variety. I think this idea is going to start getting expensive.

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 04:15:12 PM

I like the idea of putting a RU or RMB into It. I had planned on having two choc/cream coaches and the rest maroon. I'll start seeing what's available again and see what I can come up with. Think I'll just stick with mk1s to make life easier.

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 05:28:14 PM

OK here's what I've come up with based on what I can find available.
BSK maroon SK maroon CK choc/cream RMB maroon CK maroon BSK choc/cream. Or I could substitute the CK for a SK in choc cream I could also swap a BSK for a BCK. I may want to run this lot behind a class 52 now and then or should I rethink the whole thing.

johnlambert · December 09, 2016, 06:27:10 PM

Quote from: Big bad John on December 09, 2016, 05:28:14 PM
OK here's what I've come up with based on what I can find available.
BSK maroon SK maroon CK choc/cream RMB maroon CK maroon BSK choc/cream. Or I could substitute the CK for a SK in choc cream I could also swap a BSK for a BCK. I may want to run this lot behind a class 52 now and then or should I rethink the whole thing.

That sounds pretty good to me. I agree it can be difficult to find BR Mk1 coaches, especially in BR Maroon (and even more if you want Western Region running numbers). I'm lucky that I have a good collection of coaches now, but it took a while to find some of the coaches.

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 08:05:46 PM

After spending most of last night and today trawling online shops and trying to match different combinations I'm now happy to go with the above six carriage combo and even then I'll need to order from at least two shops. I'd better get some ice ready to cool my debit card down.

PLD · December 09, 2016, 08:17:20 PM

The relatively small numbers of Choc & Cream coaches were intended for and generally kept for specific high profile trains. While it was not unknown for them to be used on other services and in mixed livery rakes, it was the exception rather than the rule.
It would be more common to see an odd maroon coach substituted in an otherwise Choc & Cream train than the other way round

john lambert is correct re the gangways - GWR and LMS coaches has 'British Standard' Gangways whereas BR MK1s and most LNER stock built after c 1930 has 'Pulman' Gangways, and an adapter plate was required to join the two, so if the train included vehicles with both types whenever possible it would be marshalled with all of one type together so less adaptors were needed...

Newportnobby · December 09, 2016, 08:23:55 PM

If it's of any help to you I have 2 x Farish 0694 Choc/cream BCKs and 1 x Farish 0754 Choc/cream Buffet RMB I could sell.
Drop me a PM if interested.

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 08:46:59 PM

After the above two posts I may be going down the choc cream route with a couple of maroon's thrown in because when I've been checking online again I noticed that some of the mk1s were either m or e region. I may bring in rule one and get one of each colour

Newportnobby · December 09, 2016, 08:52:17 PM

From page 21 onwards of this site you can match running numbers by Farish reference number. Shame it's not a spreadsheet so you can use filters but it's still very useful.............
http://www.bachmann.co.uk/pdfs/farish_products_by_item_no_rev5.pdf

longbow · December 09, 2016, 09:08:51 PM

Other than as a detached portion running short distances, it would have been very unusual to have a restaurant car or a first class only carriage in a WR formation of only five or six coaches. First class accommodation would likely be limited to a BCK or CK.

Big bad John · December 09, 2016, 09:35:30 PM

OK then this is how it's beginning to look now BCK SK SK RMB FK BCK I'll just pretend that this portion is going to Wolverhampton and the other half has gone to Worcester. I could always extend the train but I don't know how it would look on a 3 metres long layout with curves at each end and I won't know that until I start building my next layout in January.
Thanks for all the advice I'm now beginning to think that any combination of liveries could have been possible in the early sixties.

johnlambert · December 09, 2016, 11:41:15 PM

Here are some photos to inspire you.

My green Class 52 on a train of Chocolate and Cream coaches.

Real Western Region down express to Wolverhampton.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhb2232.htm

http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrhb2209.htm

1964 Steam hauled with a very rough-looking loco.
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbh2325.htm

Named express in 1962 with a mix of Choc/Cream and Maroon stock
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwro2305.htm

Black and white shot of Western
http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrag2441.htm