Dapol Scotrail MK3's special commission

[Truffles]

C+M models of Carlisle are to do these as a special commission. More info here:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/69564-cm-models-commission-scotrail-mark-3s/

Cheers

Dan

[Mike W]

That makes things more tricky, I can't decide whether or not to replace my old Electra set or not!

[dr deltic]

Having some of this! Have got some cheap blue and grey Dapol Mk 111's ready to make ups blue and grey set already.
McDuff time big style!!!

[MJKERR]

Sadly I can see this coming at a premium, as with all commissions

[red_death]

I don't see either why it is a problem or a reason to be sad.

Mike at C&M is taking the commercial risk to order them, I don't begrudge him a slightly higher price for one minute. In fact given his experience with the blue 86s I am delighted he has risked his money again on an N gauge project. He is not one of the large box shifters but a "traditional" local model shop prepared to take a risk.

I only hope that people are prepared to support him.

Cheers, Mike

[MJKERR]

Sadly it looks as if the Mark 3A CO will have First Class seats
However, how does everyone feel if a more appropriate mixed seating inlay was fitted, but making this coach £30 (compared to the normal price of £20)

[red_death]

Interesting idea.  I'm not sure the additional tooling is the best solution for a relatively small run.  It might be better to look for another solution eg 3D print and cast.

A more important question is will they be genuine loco hauled Mk3As rather than HST Mk3s? Have Dapol done any proper loco hauled Mk3As (different air con pods on the roof ends is the very obvious difference)?

Cheers, Mike

[MJKERR]

A more important question is will they be genuine loco hauled Mk3As rather than HST Mk3s? Have Dapol done any proper loco hauled Mk3As (different air con pods on the roof ends is the very obvious difference)?

No, this has not been resolved
The bodyshell and roof are still the same type used throughout all versions and eras
Agreed, there should be two versions of each

[MJKERR]

Looks like Mike has confused what the FO and CO are...
His suggestion was to fit Second Class seats!

I have therefore returned my suggestion that it has First Class seats and sold as FO
When Dapol made the Voyager spare coach, this had NO numbers
This could be repeated on to the FO, with numbers included for all the coaches, thus allowing the owner to decide whether it is a FO or CO (albeit with First Class seats)

This then presented an issue, as I have now realised this adds a further variation of the Mark 3A coaches...

[dr deltic]

I think realistically we will be looking at purely a Scotrail liveried Mk111a at the end of the day, using the standard Dapol mouldings complete with the later fittings of central locking indicator lights etc.

If a realistic price is to be expected, then i think it is only realistic to expect certain compromises to be made.

That said, the 86's C and M commissioned did have the required mods required to back date........

Whatever the outcome, i will be having a set!

[Adam1701D]

I must admit to being a little bemused by the importance being given to the detail differences between loco-hauled and HST Mk3s in N Gauge. Speaking totally personally, my thoughts are...

1) I didn't realise that there were any differences until a couple of years ago after seeing it on another forum, with lots of close up detail shots.
2) It's N Gauge - is anyone really going to notice.? My eyesight is already starting to seriously struggle with the small details.
3) If there is a big enough groundswell of interest, I'm sure someone can 3D print roofs of the correct pattern to clip on. Count me out, though! 
4) Would an FO interior in a CO really be fatal? If Dapol were to paint the seats one half orange and one half blue, it would still look great.

Congratulations for C&M on taking the risk with this commission. Quite a lot of N Gauge special editions don't  always sell as well as intended (look at the bargain Kernow 60s and 153s at recent shows).

[MJKERR]

the importance being given to the detail differences between loco-hauled and HST Mk3s in N Gauge

I have to agree, the differences are negligible
Apart from the addition of buffers most people wouldn't notice
Initially I though Dapol had taken into account the differences in the roof, but this is not the case

4) Would an FO interior in a CO really be fatal? If Dapol were to paint the seats one half orange and one half blue, it would still look great

Again, most people wouldn't notice (I doubt anyone would notice the mixed seating in my Farish CO
However, with the light bars fitted the interior becomes very visible, as well as the difference between them
It is very easy to see the difference between the First Class 2+1 and the Standard 2+2 seating
However, even Dapol have made an error here, as the Standard seating is one table per window, resulting in 64 seats, where as the actual coaches had a mix of tables and airline seats
Equally, for the CO there is an intermediate door, which with the light bars would be very noticeable

Overall it is an improvement over the Farish Mark 3 coach, but it is still not perfect; compromises had to be made to cover all the possible versions since they were new, whereas Farish print the differences Dapol have moulded the body to a more recent version (appears they used the Grand Central Mark 3 coaches as a template)

[EtchedPixels]

Even the Farish ones with BR Lines interiors and vinyls you hit the interiors problem because interiors got remodelled. The obvious example being FGW's valiant attempt to reduce overcrowding by making the second class seats so close together people would rather drive.

Alan

[MJKERR]

Even the Farish ones with BR Lines interiors and vinyls you hit the interiors problem because interiors got remodelled

BR Lines are not attempting to model the later revised versions, they are based on their original seating arrangements
However, even for the CO this presents a problem as they are slightly incorrect but I would doubt anyone would notice

[red_death]

To me particularly with N gauge the roof is very obvious as it is often the most obvious thing we see.  On the real thing it is less obvious as we rarely look down on stock.  Once pointed out to you the roof difference is pretty obvious - large square vent on the HST Mk3 trailers, 3 small roe vac vents (same type as on air con Mk2s) on the loco hauled Mk3a.  In 4mm Joueff did the loco hauled variant roof correctly.

Is purist the new rivet counter?

Whether the differences bother you is an entirely personal thing. While I can understand Dapol's compromise it doesn't mean I think it is great!

Cheers, Mike