Why are some people so anti Apple?

[grumbeast]

I've always preferred apple gear and OSs (been using them since system 7)

Yes, there's always a manufacturer that has better specs / better features
Yes there are cheaper options (but lets be fair, there are also more expensive options)
Yes Apples business practices are totally draconian (and thats being polite)

But.. one thing that apple do better than anyone else (IMHO) is design for usability.
If I want a device for my Mum, it'd be an apple

One of the big issues with the iPad was that lots of techies were expecting a tablet PC, and the iPad clearly isn't.. It always was a mass consumption media device so tech heads were always going to be disappointed, it was never designed for them..

There's also a lot of resentment against apple as they've done well despite having rather evil business practices.. Apple's tag line really should be "doesnt play well with others"

All that said, I'd still (and have) buy Apple for my devices, I've used everything from a mainframe to linux-based single board computer and despite all my criticisms of them, I'm still a bit of a fanboy..  I don't give two hoots about the BMW factor, but what I do care about is that when I switch it on, it works for what I want. which apple has delivered more consistently than anyone else.

My tuppence worth.

Graham

[Pengi]

I used to be anti-Apple until I tried one.

I just choose what works best for me, is reliable and looks nice. Apple products do it for me at the moment but that might change if something better comes out in the future.

[AndyGif]

If I want a device for my Mum, it'd be an apple

now thats what you call a dedicated apple fan, willing to swap his own mother for an apple.....

we buys what we buys because it does what we want, end of story, whether it be N Gauge, 00 Gauge, this or that....

[grumbeast]

If I want a device for my Mum, it'd be an apple

now thats what you call a dedicated apple fan, willing to swap his own mother for an apple.....

we buys what we buys because it does what we want, end of story, whether it be N Gauge, 00 Gauge, this or that....

To be fair, it'd have to be a really good mac with lots of memory

[red_death]

Graham

I think that is a very reasonable assessment. 

If I buy a Mac laptop then it will probably be a combination of hardware wants on my part that leads me to them (I'd like a reasonably thin/light laptop with a reasonable hardware spec and increasingly importantly (for me!) a decent screen resolution (ie more than 1366 x 768)). I can get Windows laptops that meet those requirements but the price differential isn't much and in some cases Mac is cheaper! I fully accept that I am not representative of most consumers.

As to OSX, perhaps at various points OSX had significant usability advantages over Windows but having used both OSX and W7 a lot recently there isn't that much between them.  Aplle has the big advantage of restricting the hardware so the "just works" factor is much easier, conversely I have much greater choice of hardware and software if I stick with MS.

I completely agree that Apple make simple to use devices - my gran can quite happily use her Ipad.

Cheers, Mike

[Calnefoxile]

we buys what we buys because it does what we want, end of story,

You know what, that has to be the final statement on this subject really!!!

I can't see anywhere else for this to go, as I sit here in Delhi typing on a Win XP Netbook, 'cos its cheaper than an Ipad and I wouldn't cry to much if it got nicked or damaged ('cos it's my sons  )

Regards

Neal.

P.S. Have seen plenty of people here using Ipads as cameras, mind you they are nearly all Westerners.

[BobB]

I have to use the windows/office combination just to maintain full compatibility with my clients, none of whom use apple stuff for serious business but a few have the iPad for consuming data.

At the beginning of the year we tried an iPad, no good for business, then we tried the Galaxy - ok but there were compatibility problems for some complicated m/s word tables. In the end we found a Samsung "slate 7". Works as a tablet but is actually a full blown pc running windows and office. Apart from working really well, it adds to the street credibility as well ! The only down side is that it costs the same as the Apple notebooks.

So, if Apple suits, go ahead but if not stick to Windows and Office. I don't think anyone has to compromise these days; which kind of makes the mine is better than yours a bit pointless in my opinion.

[PLD]

I bought a Mac because I like OS X.  It has a GUI that feels unobtrusive, smooth and intuitive to me.  It has a proper working Unix underneath.  It has reasonable access to both flavours of software - closed / commercial and libre / gratis - at least for the programs I'm interested in.  It has a good development environment.  I know it's going to Just Work on the computer I bought it on.

Fair enough Tim, there are of course some users who have fully considered the options and made an informed decision (both ways), and I was really referring more to the portable devices (iPods/Pads/Phones) where a big part is about having the latest fashion accessory, than for your desk-top computing where your valid points about individual choice of OS and what you are comfortable with are most relevant.

In the portable devices, there is a big proportion of Apple's customer base who do 'have to' buy the latest model for sake of 'bragging rights'. Look at the rediculous queues outside stores at midnight on the day a new version is released - is it realy essential to have it before breakfast?? (2 rashers and scrambled egg for me please). Also look at how often users tend to upgrade and how often new versions are released...
How many iPhone4 buyers had previously purchased iPhone1s, 2s and 3s, which now sit disused in a drawer. [answer by Apple's own figures is over 3/4s had at least one previous version] So why do those users see the need to change to the new model so frequently?
is it (a) that the previous versions were under specified compared to the competition and a rapid upgrade was essential to match their functionality or (b) the old one was fine and did all they needed but they'd be embarassed to admit in public to only having a v3.

In the end as other have said "you pays your money, you makes your choice" For me while Apple do make some decent kit, it's not worth the premium price and I don't understand the frenzied desire to always have the latest version of everything if the previous one does all you need of it which is unfortunately associated with the brand...

[silly moo]

One of the things that prompted my original post was a review of the new mini iPad in a newspaper, the reviewer gave it a high score and WW3 seemed to break out in the comments section with lots of them having to be blocked by moderators.

While I can understand some of the reasons for not liking a particular product I was really surprised how upset people got. If they'd been in a bar they probably would have started thumping each other.

Maybe some of them don't have more important things to worry about, like saving up for the next loco  or getting the ballasting done.

Regards

Veronica

[Newportnobby]

Please don't let it get personal

It wasn't intended to be - PLD, my apologies if that came across as an attack in any way, it was just the right point in the discussion to jump in.

Hi Tim - I wasn't pointing any fingers
It's just that a subject that sets people into opposing points of view has the potential for becoming personal. I just want everyone to remember to respect the views of others and have a healthy debate

[zwilnik]

In the portable devices, there is a big proportion of Apple's customer base who do 'have to' buy the latest model for sake of 'bragging rights'. Look at the rediculous queues outside stores at midnight on the day a new version is released - is it realy essential to have it before breakfast?? (2 rashers and scrambled egg for me please). Also look at how often users tend to upgrade and how often new versions are released...

The reason people do that is because (1) it's actually quite fun to be appreciated by the shop staff and company you're buying something from, plus they do goodie bags etc. (2) If you didn't pre-order online in time, it's your only chance to get one for a while usually and it's nice to be ahead of the game when new technology is out.

There are people who brag about what phone they've got, but iPhones sell because they're actually very good. They update the phones once a year, but the OS is free and updates for the older devices too, so if you're on the normal 2 year contract, you simply upgrade every alternate iPhone, which is why they do the "S" numbering sequence. You also don't have to hack around to get the latest version of the OS on your phone, it's pretty much automatic.

[Agrippa]

Not being much of a computer expert the postings on this topic
might as well have been in ancient Greek.

What is clear is that Apple stuff is dearer.

Is it like Marks & Sparks shirts are dearer than Primark
but made in the same Shanghai sweatshop?

[Kipper]

For those unsure of Macs, or those who are sure and need a new one, get down to Comet - 20% off! Bargain - get 'em because when they're gone, they're gone.

[zwilnik]

For those unsure of Macs, or those who are sure and need a new one, get down to Comet - 20% off! Bargain - get 'em because when they're gone, they're gone.

Make sure they're selling you a current model though. Comet, Dixons etc. have a nasty habit of selling old stock off as current models.

[martink]

Here is my 5 cents worth, speaking from a technical perspective as a software engineer and electronic hobbyist who had an Apple ][e clone as my third computer (after building my first two machines from kits).  The company got their fingers burnt with the original Apple 2e - this was a great machine for its time, with an open architecture like Windows/PCs nowadays, and other companies produced all sorts of expansion cards, new kinds of software, etc.  Very flexible, very popular, very successful.  Unfortunately, this success bred many cheap clones which deprived Apple of revenue.  So, when they designed the first Mac, the company went to the other extreme and have followed that path ever since. 

Apple products from the first Mac onwards have used a closed hardware and software architecture.  You have to buy all your stuff from them or their approved suppliers (at higher prices, from a limited range and eventually with less capability than their competitors), and you have to do everything their way or not do it at all.  They were often ahead of the pack (especially with totally new products), but then after a couple of years tended to be eclipsed by faster or more flexible machines from competitors.  On the other hand, the options were generally limited enough that they could be thoroughly tested and usually worked more reliably than the chaotic Windows/PC world.

Apples are great if what they provide matches what you want to do, but can be a real pain otherwise.  Look at the current issues with music and ebook content - who owns the rights?  Can they revoke them at will?, etc, etc.  Apples traditionally end up being very popular for certain specific tasks, groups and professions.  There were similar effects with other old machines such as the Amiga and Atari computers - these staked out and monopolized certain specific areas (graphic arts and music respectively) for many years after they become obsolete in general use.