Free wheeling issues

[Graham]

I've had issues with EFE Rail JIA wagons.  The wheels bind on curves.  I've found how to fix.  The link takes you to my YouTube video showing how to fix.
https://youtu.be/Gku4F7Z7VQQ?si=rzoBwYjKpZqffUH9

Good explanation of how to fix this problem, I did the same with mine about 12mths ago, made a huge difference.

[Newportnobby]

Playing Devil's Advocate, would you say that's a design fault or a track radius problem?

[Graham]

definitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.

[woodbury22uk]

This is less about free running wagons and more about how traction tyres can overcome binding wheelsets.

I have over 100 continental bogie grain hoppers which form the mainstay of freight operations on my Veedinghem grain terminal layout.  Trains are generally between 14 and 21 wagons and the universal haulage is Kato Class 66/77. The wagons are from Artrain, Arnold, Minitrix and NME. These wagons are free rolling and fairly weighty. If a wagon starts to have a problem it is generally because one of the pinpoints on the axle has stopped aligning with the cup on the inside face of the bogie. It is detected because the loco sounds to be working harder to pull the train. After identifying the rogue wagon there is a simple fix of removing the bogie, realigning the axle and squeezing the bogie sides in a bit to grip the axle better.

A couple of weeks back I received a new Kato Class 66 in DB Climate Hero green livery. As a 1/160 Class 66 it is dwarfed by the grain hoppers just as in the real world. It has been on a running-in turn of 18 bogie hoppers which it has hauled scores of times now with no issues. I have a running-in track around the outside of the layout generally reserved for passenger trains. This is two 180 degrees turns of Kato R282 linked by two 2.5 metre straights. The 18 wagon train was previously hauled on the test circuit by an REE Modèles SNCF BB75000, so only a 4 axle loco but  it managed just fine.

Today I received my Revolution Europorte Class 66. It had 45 minutes each way light engine on the test loop and was impressively smooth and quiet. The detailing and appearance are superior to the Kato model. I substituted it for the Kato loco on the 18 wagon train. But it failed to make one complete circuit without slipping to a standstill with the loco on the R282 curve and most of the train on the straight.

Of course the difference is that the Kato 66 has a traction tyre on the inner axle of each bogie, although only 90 grams in weight against 104 grams for the Revolution 66. When I put the Kato engine back on the same train, it romped away with it as usual.

When the Dapol O&K hoppers first came out, the only locos which could shift a 15 wagon train were the Kato 66s. Shimming the bogies so the flanges stopped rubbing on the underframes meant a wider range of traction could cope with them!

My layout is extremely Rule 1 so depending on my mood is can be mostly SNCF or mostly British, except that the mainstay grain operation is always continental.

[PLD]

definitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.

So... The wagons are a well designed scale replica of the prototype and run well on sensibly sized prototypical curves, however like prototype they don't cope well with excessively tight "train set" corners... That's surely a "layout design" issue, as much as the wagon design...

[Graham]

definitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.

So... The wagons are a well designed scale replica of the prototype and run well on sensibly sized prototypical curves, however like prototype they don't cope well with excessively tight "train set" corners... That's surely a "layout design" issue, as much as the wagon design...

If you think a layout design with minimum radius of 750mm is a layout design problem rather than a product problem, I think you need to measure the radius of your layout/s and tell me you can get them running round ok. In old terms this is approx 2ft 6in for a radius.

[PLD]

definitely a design problem in my view. When running them on the straight or large radius, over 750mm radius they worked absolutely wonderful, anything less and they came to a standstill.

So... The wagons are a well designed scale replica of the prototype and run well on sensibly sized prototypical curves, however like prototype they don't cope well with excessively tight "train set" corners... That's surely a "layout design" issue, as much as the wagon design...

If you think a layout design with minimum radius of 750mm is a layout design problem rather than a product problem, I think you need to measure the radius of your layout/s and tell me you can get them running round ok. In old terms this is approx 2ft 6in for a radius.

Read carefully - I didn't say it's solely a layout design fault... The Wagons and the layout are designed to different standards - neither "right" nor "wrong" just different and non-compatible...

[Newportnobby]

I would imagine the vast majority of us do not have track curves over 750mm radius but anything that won't run round, say, 2nd radius I'd consider to have a design fault

[Roy L S]

I would imagine the vast majority of us do not have track curves over 750mm radius but anything that won't run round, say, 2nd radius I'd consider to have a design fault

I absolutely agree with this, R2 is considered amongst pretty much all manufacturers of N Gauge UK outline models to be the minimum radius, so any manufacturer producing a model not able to operate around such curves is failing to design it to meet accepted standards - by any reasonable and logical conclusion that is a failure in design.