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Author Topic: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE  (Read 17374 times)

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Offline Lankyman

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #405 on: September 15, 2020, 08:51:15 PM »
I am very interested to see how many have installed the £20 Zimo decoder (as I have) and are having no problems whatsoever. I cannot fault the way mine responds to opening the throttle and starts with a slow crawl before steadily accelerating to the desired speed. I have no problems with the deceleration curve either. I have done some test running today and gave it 25 assorted wagons to haul which it did without any issue. It even took them up a 1 in 40 incline to the upper level with no problem until one of the couplings gave way under the weight. I have read through the Zimo Maunual but that gives me no help at all.

The thing about my problem of the thing stopping of its own accord is the way it does it. With all my other locos, if they detect a loss of power due to a dity rail, for example, they simply stop dead and have to be pushed clear to restart. This loco just glides gently to a stop and then either retarts with a slow crawl all on its own or with the tiniest touch on the throttle. None of my other locos have ever done this and certainly not the Class 40 which is the only other loco I have with a Next 18 decoder, albeit a much more expensive sound fitted Zimo.

Ron
Ron

Offline N_GaugeModeller

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #406 on: September 15, 2020, 10:00:12 PM »
I have one in mine and not had any issues you describe

Must be a really dirty track if a multi wheeled multi pickup diesel is having issues as if the front wheels hit a dirty patch the back wheels still supply power so a short dirty patch shouldn't give any issues.

I wonder if you are seeing some other problem ?

NGM
There may be spelling and grammatical errors in my posts, I am Dyslexic so just think yourself lucky you can actually read what I have written.

I am also in the early stages of Alzheimer's and Vascular dementia so sometimes struggle with basic communication.

You don't need to point out my errors.  Thanks

Offline NinOz

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #407 on: September 16, 2020, 01:43:14 AM »
The thing about my problem of the thing stopping of its own accord is the way it does it. With all my other locos, if they detect a loss of power due to a dity rail, for example, they simply stop dead and have to be pushed clear to restart. This loco just glides gently to a stop and then either retarts with a slow crawl all on its own or with the tiniest touch on the throttle. None of my other locos have ever done this and certainly not the Class 40 which is the only other loco I have with a Next 18 decoder, albeit a much more expensive sound fitted Zimo.

Ron
Don't know what DCC system you have but that's the behaviour I get on my Digitrax when the loco address is still assigned to another slot.  Kind of a fight between idle of the prior loco and whatever speed the working loco is assigned.

Could be thermal overload (check current) or a faulty decoder.  A decoder swap could provide further indications.
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
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Online belstone

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #408 on: September 16, 2020, 07:33:48 AM »
Thanks everyone for your suggestions.  Playing with CVs made no difference and neither did a reset to factory defaults via CV8=4.  Conclusion: the LaisDCC decoder doesn't work with coreless motors that have a very low start voltage.  Anyone want a couple of Next18 chips suitable for controlling lighting etc on unpowered vehicles?  Meanwhile I dismantled one of the Claytons to see what it was made of.



Apart from four small screws holding the underframe to the chassis block it all clips together, and construction is near enough identical to the Dapol Class 26.  I haven't split the chassis block yet, but it looks very much like a coreless motor with twin flywheels inside.  I prised out one of the lighting blocks (glued to the body) and managed to remove the horrible curved headcode panel from one end.

Removing the light units leaves a little space at each end of the body.  I wonder if there is a speaker which will fit in there?

Richard

Offline Rma

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #409 on: September 16, 2020, 07:59:34 AM »
(As a minor aside - the cab on mine really doesnít want to budge and I donít want to force it. The little clips underneath donít seem to release at all. Whatís the knack?)

Online belstone

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #410 on: September 16, 2020, 08:13:18 AM »
(As a minor aside - the cab on mine really doesnít want to budge and I donít want to force it. The little clips underneath donít seem to release at all. Whatís the knack?)

The "clips" you can see are just locating pegs.  To remove the cab you need to gently lever the sides away from the bodyshell. The actual retaining clips are on the inner edge of the cab ends and fit into slots in the main body.

Richard

Offline Delboy

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #411 on: September 16, 2020, 08:27:38 AM »
Thanks @belstone  for your feedback. I have noted not to use LaisDCC for coreless motors. Has anyone any feedback on use with non coreless motors?
Dennis.
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Offline Rma

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #412 on: September 16, 2020, 08:31:31 AM »

The "clips" you can see are just locating pegs.  To remove the cab you need to gently lever the sides away from the bodyshell. The actual retaining clips are on the inner edge of the cab ends and fit into slots in the main body.

Richard

Great! Thanks very much for the help :)

Offline Lankyman

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #413 on: September 16, 2020, 09:23:42 PM »
The thing about my problem of the thing stopping of its own accord is the way it does it. With all my other locos, if they detect a loss of power due to a dity rail, for example, they simply stop dead and have to be pushed clear to restart. This loco just glides gently to a stop and then either retarts with a slow crawl all on its own or with the tiniest touch on the throttle. None of my other locos have ever done this and certainly not the Class 40 which is the only other loco I have with a Next 18 decoder, albeit a much more expensive sound fitted Zimo.

Ron
Don't know what DCC system you have but that's the behaviour I get on my Digitrax when the loco address is still assigned to another slot.  Kind of a fight between idle of the prior loco and whatever speed the working loco is assigned.

Could be thermal overload (check current) or a faulty decoder.  A decoder swap could provide further indications.

Thanks for this NinOz. Very interesting and I am glad I am not the only one who has this phenomenon. As it happens, ny controller is a Digitrax DCS150 which has always worked faultlessly but is the controller the problem? I can see I am going to have to read that manual as well. I would point out that the Zimo decoder is a swap for a Hattons decoder I used first and the reason for the swap was that the Hattons decoder did exactly the same thing. That's too much of a coincidence to make the decoder the problem. I am ruling out the dirty track issue as I specially cleaned it before doing the last test and it made no difference. I am not a believer of changing CV settings unless I have to because I don't know enough about CV's and how they work and the only thing I have set with this one is the address. I may try a reset to factory settings and then try it again before inputting a new address. Would cancelling all the loco addresses currently stored in the controller's memory be any help as I am also getting the error message StLo sometimes?
Ron

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #414 on: September 16, 2020, 10:12:57 PM »
Decoders can behave in different ways when they have a power outage and power is restored. Some may recommence of their own accord, remembering the last speed and direction instruction. Some may wait until the command station re-transmits to their address. The command station doesn't necessarily re-transmit the same instructions continuously, i know on my NCE gear there is a config setting somewhere which affects how frequently it re-transmits.
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Offline NinOz

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #415 on: September 17, 2020, 02:58:26 AM »
The thing about my problem of the thing stopping of its own accord is the way it does it. With all my other locos, if they detect a loss of power due to a dity rail, for example, they simply stop dead and have to be pushed clear to restart. This loco just glides gently to a stop and then either retarts with a slow crawl all on its own or with the tiniest touch on the throttle. None of my other locos have ever done this and certainly not the Class 40 which is the only other loco I have with a Next 18 decoder, albeit a much more expensive sound fitted Zimo.

Ron
Don't know what DCC system you have but that's the behaviour I get on my Digitrax when the loco address is still assigned to another slot.  Kind of a fight between idle of the prior loco and whatever speed the working loco is assigned.

Could be thermal overload (check current) or a faulty decoder.  A decoder swap could provide further indications.

Thanks for this NinOz. Very interesting and I am glad I am not the only one who has this phenomenon. As it happens, ny controller is a Digitrax DCS150 which has always worked faultlessly but is the controller the problem? I can see I am going to have to read that manual as well. I would point out that the Zimo decoder is a swap for a Hattons decoder I used first and the reason for the swap was that the Hattons decoder did exactly the same thing. That's too much of a coincidence to make the decoder the problem. I am ruling out the dirty track issue as I specially cleaned it before doing the last test and it made no difference. I am not a believer of changing CV settings unless I have to because I don't know enough about CV's and how they work and the only thing I have set with this one is the address. I may try a reset to factory settings and then try it again before inputting a new address. Would cancelling all the loco addresses currently stored in the controller's memory be any help as I am also getting the error message StLo sometimes?
It is an operator error.  Failure to clear a loco from when finished with it.  Not dirty track and not a faulty decoder.
Sounds like you need to do some slot tidying up.  If you have JMRI available then it makes command station inspection and settings a breeze.
StLo  message means "Selected a loco assigned to another throttle".  You have an address assigned to another throttle (slot).  Edit status for that slot.
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

| Carpe Jugulum |

Offline Lankyman

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #416 on: September 17, 2020, 08:43:48 PM »
Thanks again @NinOz. What you have described fits excatly with Section 19.0 of the Digitrax DCS51 Manual. With regard to the StLo message I have two UT4 throttles as well as the main controller but I didn't think I had run the loco on either of them so I don't really understand the problem yet. I am also getting the FULL error message as well now. What is not visible is what information is stored within the UT4 throttles. I have tried the "Dispatching" procedures and clearing all the other addresses but this doesn't seem to be having an effect. Whilst testing this afternoon I changed to loco address to a fictitious one and lo and behold the loco worked perfectly, no random stopping and starting, just running continuously and smoothly. This proves there is absolutely nothing wrong with either the loco or the decoder and, in fact, the loco is a little gem. The problem is entirely with the Digitrax control system which is another subject altogether.

That being the case, any further discussion about this problem will be outside the scope of this thread so I will say no more. I will do some more investigation and, if I need any further help, I will start a new thread about the operation of the Digitrax DCS51 controller. Many thanks for all your help, especially NinOz. At least you have pointed me in the right direction and I will get there one day, if I live long enough.

Ron
Ron

Offline philnotts

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #417 on: September 19, 2020, 09:45:08 AM »
Just received my class 17, really happy with the model but it looks as though i am having the same issues with this loco, where it will just go from the off and stop instant. There is no smooth running in either directions from the off or slowing down. The chip in my 17 is the Dapol Imperium 2 - Next18 Pin 6 function decoder.

I have tried to play around with the CV 2,3 and 4 settings but nothing seems to work. Has anyone else fitted this decoder and had any luck with the settings?

Thanks,

Phil

Offline jthjth

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #418 on: September 19, 2020, 10:01:45 AM »
Just received my class 17, really happy with the model but it looks as though i am having the same issues with this loco, where it will just go from the off and stop instant. There is no smooth running in either directions from the off or slowing down. The chip in my 17 is the Dapol Imperium 2 - Next18 Pin 6 function decoder.

I have tried to play around with the CV 2,3 and 4 settings but nothing seems to work. Has anyone else fitted this decoder and had any luck with the settings?

Thanks,

Phil
Have you checked its running under DC? I apologise if this is stating what you already know, but you canít overcome poor mechanical characteristics with a decoder. If it does run well with DC Iíd then recommend a Bachmann/Zimo decoder. I use the latter and my loco runs fine without any decoder adjustments.

Offline N_GaugeModeller

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Re: N Gauge Class 17 from Bachman / EFE
« Reply #419 on: September 19, 2020, 11:42:25 AM »
Might well be worth changing the decoder to a Zimo as the Dapol Imperium decoder is actually a LaisDCC decoder, see above for comments on those decoders and coreless motors.

Might also be worth checking if there is too much grease been used and its got over the contact strips under the bogies. again see the pictures earlier in this post for pictures showing the over greasing issue.

NGM
There may be spelling and grammatical errors in my posts, I am Dyslexic so just think yourself lucky you can actually read what I have written.

I am also in the early stages of Alzheimer's and Vascular dementia so sometimes struggle with basic communication.

You don't need to point out my errors.  Thanks

 

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