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Author Topic: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!  (Read 1407 times)

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Offline leachsprite4

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2020, 06:09:48 PM »
No need to Google earth the site. I drive past the site 10 times a week and have done for getting on for 20 years, I also spent a few years at the venue as a student before this and during the last 20 years.

But yes it's exactly this type of planning which although time consuming can save a lot of problems.

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2020, 06:31:03 PM »
I also know the site extremely well, something to do with spending 30 years of my life in Leamington and driving past this everyday as well as being a student there.

A few points worth knowing the answers too,

1, was that riverside gate secure?? It has never been pedestrian secure no matter what attempts were made even though it has been vehicular secure.

2, was Cheltenham Models stand RIGHT beside the door or window that was accessed??

3, not knowing the trade stand/display layout were they the only ones in this hall??

4, is it correct that NO other trader or display was damaged or stolen from??

5, why were Warwickshire Police so keen to add that it was a "well organised criminal gang from outside the area"? Are Warwickshire Police living in denial that no organised crime gangs run from Warwickshire or do they have evidence to support the vehicle arriving from outside the area and leaving the same way??

6, its VERY RARE this type of crime is opportunistic and I'm sure there are better attended shows with "as lapse" security that could be targeted to gain more "stock"

It's either very unfortunate that all these simple things have been missed and allowed the crime to take place or theres definitely more to it that a well targeted crime with a good helping of inside information  :hmmm:

Offline Bonnyman750

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2020, 07:17:08 PM »
1, Don't know about state of the Riverside gate and it's place in the weekend's events. I have no knowledge of the history of this gate either...

2, The Cheltenham Models stand was on the far wall adjacent to the ramp entrance from inside the college atrium, i.e as you came down the ramp into the Gym they were immediately on the right hand side....directly opposite the door nearest the Riverside gate which we can only speculate at the moment was their point of entry...

3, There were 6 other traders in the Gym, but only CMC were selling Hornby, Bachmann, Farish etc...you can see all the downloadable floor plans on the LWMRS website for the event so, as a past student you will know where I mean...

4, As far as I am aware, CMC was the only trader affected...

5, No comment on WMP...perhaps they have more intelligence on this type of crime or who were involved than they are letting on, we can only speculate on this....The official statement I posted earlier mentioned that they were reviewing CCTV footage and had recovered some items 'left by the raiders' which, hopefully will lead them to some arrests - only time will tell.

6, Judging by the events it is entirely possible that the raid was pre-planned and well organised (again, with all the material available online to look over) and not 'opportunistic' as you say. Something that only the Police can now confirm...This is why I said that future events' organisers need to come in to the 21st century with their security arrangements and embrace all the mediums available to them to try and prevent this type of event from happening...

Glyn

Offline davidinyork

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2020, 08:03:02 PM »
You do have to wonder how they are selling this though - it's a limited market, and anyone selling a lot of new stock and who isn't a registered dealer supplied by the manufacturers might well be scritinised (if the police have the resources, of course).

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2020, 09:10:21 PM »
Someone not very long ago was selling 13 lots of 4 Farish NSE coaches on ebay for 98 a lot.

They ran for a few weeks, no idea if they sold or how someone comes into having 52 coaches of the same type to sell in one go  :hmmm:

If it was OO gauge stuff that went, that market is HUGE (were always told) so presumably theres a good few outlets and ways of disposal of quantities of stolen stock.

Offline davidinyork

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #20 on: March 09, 2020, 09:17:58 PM »
If it was OO gauge stuff that went, that market is HUGE (were always told) so presumably theres a good few outlets and ways of disposal of quantities of stolen stock.

Huge is probably an exaggeration! Yes, it's a lot bigger than the N gauge market, but in the UK N gauge is very niche and production runs are very small.

Offline Bob Tidbury

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #21 on: March 10, 2020, 09:53:10 AM »
 I just hope that Trevor and Rose can manage to get insurance for their stock at shows ,and can continue to be one of the leading firms in the hobby ,I just wonder how they manage to carry on , it must be very disheartening for them ,they really work hard to help keep our hobby going and give us very good deals .Please can we continue to support them .
Bob Tidbury

Offline Skyline2uk

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #22 on: March 10, 2020, 10:02:32 AM »
I second @Bob Tidbury

I have made a note to make my next purchase from CMC, maybe try and visit the lovely shop on my Birthday.

Skyline2uk

Offline acko22

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #23 on: March 10, 2020, 01:31:27 PM »
Hi all,

I only heard about this sad turn of events last night and genuinely hope this doesn't have a long term effect on Trevor and Rose and it doesn't put them off attending other model shows although a degree of caution on their part after this is totally understandable.


why were Warwickshire Police so keen to add that it was a "well organised criminal gang from outside the area"? Are Warwickshire Police living in denial that no organised crime gangs run from Warwickshire or do they have evidence to support the vehicle arriving from outside the area and leaving the same way??


To answer this simply there will be compelling evidence to support this, in my previous career I worked a fair bit with the police although for different purposes the methodology is the same. The method of carrying out the act was planned and chances are that for the police to so candidly say its "organised" means the method has been used before to the same effect and most probably for the same kind of product to steal (small size, medium value)
As for outside the area well in this day and age CCTV is everywhere and they most likely have a snap shot of the number plate of the vehicle used in the vicinity and if you are travelling almost anywhere these days you will hit ANPR cameras so they will have a track of the general vehicle movements (The M40, A45 and A46 all have them on for certain) into and out of the area.

As for how do we prevent it well that's the million pound question:

We can't realistically expect every individual item to be security marked not when you take into consideration that a trader could easily be bringing well into the high 3, low 4 figures individual items of stock, the labour and time required would be horrendous and put the vast majority of traders off if that became an enforce thing by insurance firms

Having people on site during silent hours, we this opens a whole can of worms from start to finish with a never ending and ever changing list of requirements!
Most places and insurance these days will require that anyone acting as security has the required SIA accreditation and works for an accredited company not just club members and that's just for starters as a lot of clubs use schools for exhibitions they may ask that any person "working" as security has a full DBS check at the expense of the model club due to them working at a school due to child protection measures (my sister is a head master and this is one of the stipulations set out by the local education authority).
Even then many establishments will not allow people inside the buildings in the silent hours unless a member of their staff are present which means security is left to a roaming patrol outside the building or even the perimeter which been honest in this day and age a bloke with a torch vs a group of individuals seems to be more of a challenge rather than a deterrent.

I know a club a few years ago up my way moved location from a school to a public hall which was more central as they felt that despite neither having better physical security i.e locks the second had better CCTV coverage and was more visible through out the silent hours making any suspect activity more noticeable to the general public and indeed the police should they be around, as such represented a more secure option, it did cost some what more but there is credence to that trail of thought.
So that may be something clubs have to look at where they move to more expensive but more visible locations which by there very location have a more deterring nature about them.

Offline red_death

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2020, 03:21:46 PM »
What Gareth just said is spot on.

I know when I was a show manager there were restrictions on staying overnight from both the insurers and building owners. 

I hope Cheltenham MC haven't suffered too much and that insurance has covered any losses.

Cheers Mike



Offline Bonnyman750

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2020, 04:02:19 PM »
I assume that as a long serving trader, Trevor will have had an inventory of the all the stock at the show and a list of the stolen items given to the Police on the scene.

I would also assume that the Police in general have departments (cyber crime etc...) that now look into the various auction and selling sites/mediums with a view to collecting intelligence and (hopefully) spotting possible stolen items being punted on on these sites. I know large companies do as a matter of course...!

As a keen motorcyclist and classic rider I am registered with a couple of classic bike interest and owners forums. One, in particular has members who regularly post up the details of (possibly) scam sales of classic bikes on the internet (library pictures instead of the actual bike on the listing, wrong details for that particular bike that owners would instantly know is wrong, even photo's of forum members bikes that they have previously sold being used etc)...unfortunately, I believe the course of action is to notify eBay who usually take the listing down and (probably) don't inform any crime prevention agencies. I have often seen numerous identical auction listings highlighted on this site under different sellers names which are spotted and forum members warned about very early on in the listing's history...

This and other MR forums have many members who regularly trawl these sites (including traders) and have probably enough savvy to spot anything that looks wrong/out of place, possibly posted by people who don't have any detailed knowledge of the items, thus possibly exposing them as trying to move on dodgy stock....

Maybe our MR traders could get together (as I am sure they do...) and generate a common coded template for sales on these sites that would possibly expose a rogue trader due to the wording or styling cues of the listings?

Also, if the listings were copied by the rogue traders to pass as a genuine one, it would stick out as all the genuine traders would instantly know how many they have to sell...Then if a listing is exposed the details could be passed on to the law enforcement agencies not the site owners to give the cyber crime departments more of a fighting chance of catching these scum...

Again, just my thoughts as I am not a trader, just an ordinary railway modeller who hates genuine hard-working people being rolled over. Like I said earlier these scum are using modern technology and more intricate ways of obtaining our hard earned money and possessions and it is up to use to do likewise and try to make it harder for them....

Glyn
« Last Edit: March 10, 2020, 04:07:07 PM by Bonnyman750 »

Offline Bonnyman750

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2020, 12:33:27 AM »
Update...verbatim from the LWMRS FB page...

In answer to the question of 'What was taken?'.
A large quantity of new clean boxed stock in the popular gauges from the mass market manufactures and as such untraceable. Probably too much to distribute through online auction channels.
However if anyone comes across large quantities of new items in unusual places it may be worth reporting to your local Police force quoting the Warwickshire Police incident number 87 of the 7th March 2020.

Offline Bonnyman750

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Re: Another Model Rail Show suffers a break in...!
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2020, 04:01:10 PM »
I have just seen an entry on their club Facebook page that due to increased costs at their current venue (Leamington college) they have both had to stop using it and need to find another venue. Also, with COVID-19 and all the associated issues, they have regrettably cancelled the 2021 exhibition and hopefully will have a new venue and exhibition in 2022.
I would assume that the break-in at the 2020 do will have had a negative effect with insurance and security costs being ramped up therefore making the venue non-financially viable.
I sincerely hope that they do get sorted and we will see them back on the exhibition circuit soon...
Glyn

 

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