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Author Topic: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout  (Read 1297 times)

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Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #15 on: August 20, 2020, 09:47:23 PM »
A former schoolmate has relatives who live in Firenze and Milano.
I'm considering running through coaches between Keiditschstadt and Firenze which cater for Gastarbeiter (guest workers) but I'm not sure what's available in N scale to model these trains during the 1980s.
I know Roco modelled FS Eurofima orange carriages with the "television" 1970s/80s FS logo but sleeping cars are hard to get hold of with FS markings.
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Offline Hiawatha

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2020, 07:39:12 PM »
Guest workers usually didn’t go in sleeping cars, just 2nd-class day coaches. There are photos from the 1960s that show that Silberlinge and even 6-wheel Umbauwagen (!) were used in guest worker trains from Munich to Naples!
In the 1980s it was more civilized and such trains were made up of 26.4-m coaches although not so much air-conditioned Eurofimas but the basic, older DB and FS UIC-X.

ACME has recently released different FS UIC-X coaches and sets, both in the earlier slate grey with TV logo and the later liver red/grey. Liver red was introduced around 1981, so for the 1980s a mix of slate grey and liver red/grey coaches would be fine.
Most of the sets and single 2nd-class coaches can still be found at dealers or on ebay.

If you want to add more fancy accomodation, there will also be 3-car night train set consisting of one blue FS MU sleeper and two liver red/grey couchette cars:
https://www.menzels-lokschuppen.de/Modellbahnen/ACME-16516-FS-Personenwagen-Set-3-tlg-Ep-4.html
ACME call this a 1990s train for epoch V but I can’t see why it shouldn’t fit for the 1980s.
Peter

Offline marco neri

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2020, 10:28:14 PM »
Hi,
There are some FS sleeping cars about the 80’s by Roco and Arnold ...the MU and T2S marked FS...new logo not di  the old “television”..
Rivarossi only made the MU FS TEN with television log..
You can see more infos about on tris site:
https://scalaenne.wordpress.com/2012/04/14/carrozze-letto-ciwl-post-ii-guerra-mondiale/

Marco
...never turn you back on the ripper (judas priest)

Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2020, 10:53:56 AM »
My next stage in building Keiditschstadt Hbf is extending the platform round the curve long enough to accommodate a loco with four 26.4 m carriages.



There'll be room to build a level crossing, road junction and car park.
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Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2020, 09:27:16 PM »
Thanks to Hiawatha and Marco Neri for giving me details of FS passenger stock.
I've looked at ACME's models of their FS carriages.
16513 - 3 X FS UIC-X grey
16514 - 3 x FS UIC-X red/grey

However Fleischmann released several slate grey FS carriages including 811301 https://www.fleischmann.de/de/product/80518-0-0-0-1-0-0-003005-0/products.html

Arnold will release HN 4317 https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/arnold-n-1-160-fs-set-of-3-coaches-uic-x-tipo-1964-1-x-1a-class-an-2-x-2a-class-rosso-fegato-grey-beige-livery-period-v.html
and HN 4316
https://www.hornby.com/uk-en/arnold-n-1-160-fs-set-of-3-coaches-uic-x-type-1964-1-x-1st-class-and-2-x-2nd-class-grigio-ardesia-livery-period-iv.html

Are ACME's models of FS carriages more correct than Fleischmann's and Arnold's versions?



« Last Edit: August 23, 2020, 09:33:19 PM by gc4946, Reason: Added ACME reference numbers »
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Offline Hiawatha

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2020, 02:09:44 PM »
Well, the Fleischmann FS coaches were released around 2012, so good luck finding them if you really want them. These coaches suffer from the usual Fleischmann problems: They sit too high on the bogies, have distorted windows and a flatter roof to correct the overall height of the coaches.
As these were just DB UIC-X coaches in FS livery, there are detail differences that are not correct for the Italian cars. Too specific for me but they have different water tank openings on the roofs or different sized door windows or somesuch.

The ACME models have the correct details for the FS. The models don’t seem to roll all that well, and from what I have read, assembly can be a bit subpar sometimes.

The Arnold sets are not released yet but as they are not marked “New Tool” it was suggested that these will also be just reliveried DB coaches. Will certainly look better than the Fleischmann versions as they sit lower and have better proportions. These are variants without side skirts, so I guess they could be combined with the skirted ACME coaches for a more diverse consist.
Peter

Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #21 on: August 24, 2020, 02:49:37 PM »
Thanks for the information on Fleischmann's and Arnold's FS carriages.
I suspected Fleischmann's versions were reliveries of DB UIC-X stock. A British supplier has a 811301 set available but following your advice I won't buy it now.

I also think Arnold's forthcoming FS versions are reliveried DB stock but will wait and see when they appear later this year or in 2021. As of now, it doesn't help that Hornby has only made computer generated images available for prospective purchasers.

So, ACME may be an option after all.
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Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2020, 11:00:42 AM »
Keiditschstadt will initially be served by international trains travelling to the following destinations:



Daily Ostende/Oostende service connecting with cross-channel ferries, using DB and SNCB carriages;
Weekly service to Paris Est using SNCF carriages (former schoolmate now lives in Vincennes)
Weekly service to Milano and Firenze using FS carriages
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Offline weave

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2020, 12:36:58 PM »
Hi gc4946,

All starting to look very interesting.

I meant to reply about the FS coaches but am not that knowledgeable and thought that there would be better people to advise. I've got quite a few of the old Atlas/Rivarossi grey FS coaches from eBay which (I think) serve my purposes as 'through' coaches ('70s/'80s) to Brittany on one layout and the Spanish border on the other. I reckon the Brittany train is stretching it a bit but I have a ferry service to Ireland so a pilgrim train to Rome is my excuse  :).

I also have an FS TEN Trans Euro Notte FS sleeper but can't remember who made it and more importantly can't find it to see :doh: (tidying up is fatal).

Anyway, looking forward to more of your build and the different liveries, one of my favourite things about modelling Continental.

Great stuff and have fun.

Cheers, weave  :beers:

Offline marco neri

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2020, 03:36:04 PM »
Keiditschstadt will initially be served by international trains travelling to the following destinations:



Daily Ostende/Oostende service connecting with cross-channel ferries, using DB and SNCB carriages;
Weekly service to Paris Est using SNCF carriages (former schoolmate now lives in Vincennes)
Weekly service to Milano and Firenze using FS carriages

Hi,
the Italian coaches in orange are very good for that period 70/80....they started  railway service in 1977 to.....today!
Also the UIC - X are a good choice both the grey than “rosso fegato” liveries...
The first batch of Fleischmann UIC-X FS in grey are have the roof  failed..after is exact;
.at the same time the Minitrix UIC-X sleeping car in XMPR livery are failed, they only are the DB repainted..the number of windows is not exact.

Marco

...never turn you back on the ripper (judas priest)

Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2020, 08:02:39 PM »
Keiditschstadt will initially be served by international trains travelling to the following destinations:




I was lucky that I spotted three Arnold SNCF Eurofimas for sale as one lot at a reasonable price in the UK.
Otherwise I would have ordered two or three SNCF UIC-X carriages from the REE Shop.

"I believe in positive, timely solutions, not vague, future promises"

Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2020, 10:42:33 AM »
Apart from current rolling stock orders in the postal system, I'm easing off buying more stock.
My next plan is identifying building kits depicting the Hanseatic style, because the imagined Keiditschstadt is located between Braunschweig (Brunswick) and Helmstedt.
I own a few post WW2 modernist buildings but I want to redress the balance with authentic older architecture from the region.
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Offline marco neri

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2020, 01:42:48 PM »
Hi,
 :hellosign:
About the italian orange Eurofimas you can get these options for training:
Old RIVAROSSI E444 - a good runner despite ages - difficult to find, but with a bit of lucky on EBay......
E444R Pirata - the first  FS batch that is in red - in service from 1994 can match the Eurofimas easily
Arnold E652 “caimano” (kaiman) on the way for 2021 ( we in Italy are waiting for it as the Holy Bible ) two tones of blu/sky , not the XMPR version too modern...
But rule 1 is always the best :)

Marco
...never turn you back on the ripper (judas priest)

Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #28 on: September 05, 2020, 09:18:08 AM »
I've identified and bought some assembled plastic kits of older architecture including half-timbered buildings from eBay for delivery next week.



In the meantime several modernist structures have been appropriated for this layout. The two assembled Vollmer structures didn't look happy in a British setting. but will fit perfectly in Keiditschstadt's town centre.

Until the older buildings are delivered I'm not planning to design the town centre because I will need to check all the dimensions and see how they fit together in the overall scheme of things
"I believe in positive, timely solutions, not vague, future promises"

Offline gc4946

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Re: Keiditschstadt - DB 1981-1990 modular Kato layout
« Reply #29 on: September 07, 2020, 12:46:29 PM »
My older style buildings arrived sooner than expected.





Photos taken from both sides of the buildings.
"I believe in positive, timely solutions, not vague, future promises"

 

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