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Author Topic: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)  (Read 917 times)

RBTKraisee, snitchthebudgie and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Dr Al

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2020, 11:22:14 AM »
I'd certainly be interested too.

I presume these sets made it to BR days and were then painted blood/custard, and possibly even got to full maroon?

One comment on the model - it does look to ride rather high - the gap between the bogies and the base of the underframe looks rather large - is this an illusion from the photographs (? do you have a fully side on view) - how does the ride height compare to say a Dapol or Minitrix Gresley? It might be worth looking at if they are sitting a little high - I'm guessing it'll be fairly trivial to lower this if found necessary.

Cheers,
Alan
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If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Online RBTKraisee

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 01:00:57 PM »
Yes, they definitely made it to Maroon BR livery era. There are pictures of these RTS units in Maroon, on Steve Banks' site.   I haven't seen a blood/custard version, but I'm fairly sure they must have existed too.

Below is a direct comparison with a Dapol Gresley.   Since taking these pics I have now added the extra roof details and other improvements.

Measured height to the top of the roof-line is within 0.5mm of the Dapol, though the Dapol tornado's are about 2x scale and mine are accurate.

Part of the illusion is caused, I think, by the Dapol underframe colour!

One difference you might be detecting, is the Dapol's come on 6.2mm wheels which are not to scale for the 3'6" wheels on these coaches, so they've had to fudge the positioning of the bogie.   I'm using more accurate 7.2mm wheels (Dundas Models in this case) and so I've positioned everything accurately to the drawings.   The only slight issue with doing it this way, is there has been *slight* rubbing against the steam pipe running along the solebar if you run these on 1st radius 9"/228mm curves.   I have already done a design change in my latest versions to reduce that rubbing, but haven't actually had a chance to try it yet due to long hours at work.   I'll report back when I do.

Ross.



« Last Edit: June 29, 2020, 01:12:03 PM by RBTKraisee »
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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2020, 02:06:53 PM »
this is a kit I think I would be interested in! what have you thought of in terms of the corridor connections so you don't have a big gap in the middle of them?

thanks
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Online Dr Al

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2020, 02:38:53 PM »
Yes, they definitely made it to Maroon BR livery era. There are pictures of these RTS units in Maroon, on Steve Banks' site.   I haven't seen a blood/custard version, but I'm fairly sure they must have existed too.

Yes, I thought that - definitely therefore very interested in this project!!

One difference you might be detecting, is the Dapol's come on 6.2mm wheels which are not to scale for the 3'6" wheels on these coaches, so they've had to fudge the positioning of the bogie.   I'm using more accurate 7.2mm wheels (Dundas Models in this case) and so I've positioned everything accurately to the drawings.   The only slight issue with doing it this way, is there has been *slight* rubbing against the steam pipe running along the solebar if you run these on 1st radius 9"/228mm curves.   I have already done a design change in my latest versions to reduce that rubbing, but haven't actually had a chance to try it yet due to long hours at work.   I'll report back when I do.

Ross.





Can you put them buffer to buffer and have an absolutely square side on picture? It looks like the rear coach rides higher than the Dapol (which despite its wheels, I'd assume rides at the right height - certainly matches other coach buffer heights in my experience).

I presume if this is high (of if folk like me think it is) that the bogie sits on a boss that could simply be cut down in height?

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Richard Taylor

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2020, 07:44:29 PM »
Gosh, you spend a day away from this thread and come back to a complete teak carriage painting tutorial.

Thanks for the detailed painting information Ross, and also for offering possible alternate resin options.  I'm not hugely interested in fitting lighting so light bleed-through is less of an issue for me.  I find the commercial offerings for lighting for N gauge UK steam-era models (both carriage light bars and LED lamps on locos) to be far too bright and intense, given that the real carriages were lit with rather dull small incandescent bulbs  and loco lights were either the same, or oil lamps, and in either case intended simply as markers, not searchlights. 

But I *would* like to achieve a decent teak finish, which your guidance makes clear is a realistic ambition and it seems to me in my ignorance that would be easier to achieve by starting with a cream or similar light-coloured resin, even if the first coat has to be primer?  (Both my maternal grandfather and paternal great-grandfather worked at the York Carriageworks for the NER and LNER so it has to be teak!)

Anyway, enough of my vapourings.  Will send you a PM with my contact details and await further developments...

RIchard


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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2020, 09:44:02 PM »
this is a kit I think I would be interested in! what have you thought of in terms of the corridor connections so you don't have a big gap in the middle of them?

I got a set of Gresley Corridor Connectors from N-Brass a few weeks ago, but haven't got around to trying them so far.   Let me see what I can do over the next few days.

Ross.
“The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars” -Robert Heinlein

An Ex-Pat:  Two decades living in Florida and still a shade of "British Tourist White"

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2020, 09:49:44 PM »
Can you put them buffer to buffer and have an absolutely square side on picture? It looks like the rear coach rides higher than the Dapol (which despite its wheels, I'd assume rides at the right height - certainly matches other coach buffer heights in my experience).

I presume if this is high (of if folk like me think it is) that the bogie sits on a boss that could simply be cut down in height?

Let me try to take some pics later tonight - work is kicking my butt right now because we got our first flight hardware in last week, and I just fired the systems up for the first time this afternoon!   So far so good - but it does crimp into my hobby time :)

The bogie connector could be filed down if necessary.   It would be a fiddly job, but doable if you just take your time.   I don't think it will be necessary though.

Ross.
“The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars” -Robert Heinlein

An Ex-Pat:  Two decades living in Florida and still a shade of "British Tourist White"

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2020, 10:05:07 AM »
Great to see you posting here Ross. The triple set is looking very good already.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2020, 07:32:34 PM »
Great to see you posting here Ross. The triple set is looking very good already.  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

That's high praise indeed, thank you Steve!

Ross.

PS - I'll get the buffer:buffer pics for Alan - and *maybe* even the Gresley corridor connectors for 'portland-docks', as soon a I can get away from work :)
“The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars” -Robert Heinlein

An Ex-Pat:  Two decades living in Florida and still a shade of "British Tourist White"

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #24 on: June 30, 2020, 07:41:10 PM »
Gosh, you spend a day away from this thread and come back to a complete teak carriage painting tutorial.

Thanks for the detailed painting information Ross, and also for offering possible alternate resin options.  I'm not hugely interested in fitting lighting so light bleed-through is less of an issue for me.  I find the commercial offerings for lighting for N gauge UK steam-era models (both carriage light bars and LED lamps on locos) to be far too bright and intense, given that the real carriages were lit with rather dull small incandescent bulbs  and loco lights were either the same, or oil lamps, and in either case intended simply as markers, not searchlights.

That's precisely the reason why I went with the ESU lighting kit for my own set, it allows precise control of the brightness.   And it will integrate into JMRI, so I can adjust the brightness from my cellphone :)


Quote
But I *would* like to achieve a decent teak finish, which your guidance makes clear is a realistic ambition and it seems to me in my ignorance that would be easier to achieve by starting with a cream or similar light-coloured resin, even if the first coat has to be primer?  (Both my maternal grandfather and paternal great-grandfather worked at the York Carriageworks for the NER and LNER so it has to be teak!)

"My" instructions are just a regurgitated version of Mike Trice's.   All kudos goes to him for the hard work figuring this stuff out!   Look up his YouTube video's - he's also got great threads on a number of forums that handle 4mm.

Stevie DC has a slightly more complex technique too, and I think his results might be even better - I haven't tried to duplicate his technique yet, but the results look amazing.   I strongly recommend looking his teaking threads up because he does it for 2mm, so the precision has to be higher - I'm sure he must have threads about it somewhere on here - perhaps he might share a link?

After that, experiment, experiment, experiment and I'm sure you'll settle on a technique that works best for you.   That's what I'm doing :)   In these quantities, a single tube of Burnt Umber and a pot of the Liquin are going to last me a couple of decades, so you can afford to practice a lot!

Ross.
« Last Edit: June 30, 2020, 07:44:57 PM by RBTKraisee »
“The meek shall inherit the Earth. The rest of us are going to the stars” -Robert Heinlein

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #25 on: July 01, 2020, 08:17:22 AM »
That's high praise indeed, thank you Steve!

It's high quality work Ross. I'm really impressed with the detail you've put on the underside of the frames; something I don't go into that level of detail on.

Stevie DC has a slightly more complex technique too, and I think his results might be even better - I haven't tried to duplicate his technique yet, but the results look amazing.   I strongly recommend looking his teaking threads up because he does it for 2mm, so the precision has to be higher - I'm sure he must have threads about it somewhere on here - perhaps he might share a link?

I came to my own method from seeing Mike's success with using oil paints. I've written a tutorial on here: https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=48865.0

Here is an example of the effect my method can give.



Mike Trice's tutorials on his methods can be found here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCn1tp9oWk2g_gRlbsWGpNxQ

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #26 on: July 01, 2020, 11:06:10 AM »
Gentlemen
This is all excellent and educational stuff.  The forum at its best - many thanks for your skills, the links to further information, and for sharing your knowledge.
To Steve in particular, thanks also for your inspiring loco builds. I must pluck up the courage to tackle the V3 I bought from your Shapeways site... (& I hope one day you’ll feel up to making some more of your designs available)

Cheers,
Richard

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #27 on: July 01, 2020, 11:59:53 AM »
I hope one day you’ll feel up to making some more of your designs available

Highly agreed, and seconded!

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Online RBTKraisee

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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 04:34:53 AM »
Okay, I have finally gotten a little time to check into Alan's buffer-to-buffer picture request, and you're right, there is a difference in height.




More importantly, I figured out why.   It's because a while ago I added a real-scale 6" (around 1mm in N-scale) to the height of the buffer mount when I found the wheel interference issue on 9"/228mm 1st radius curves.   I did it just as a test and planned to go back, in fact I thought I had gone back, but turns out I forgot to change it back again!   Silly me.  :-[

So, I figure there are a few possible solutions and I wanted to ask what people here would prefer...

1) Put everything back to accurate-to-the-drawings and just let everyone know that the coaches might have a few issues on tight 1st radius curves.

2) Keep the additional height and avoid all interference, but have a height discrepancy to other coaches.

3) Change the underframe to place the outer solebars wider apart, allowing the wheels more room.

4) Play with the bogie mount height and the height of the wheel hubs in the bogies to get an optimal solution that isn't quite accurate, but looks good and does the job. (see image below)

5) Change to smaller, non-accurate 6.2mm wheels like on the Dapol.

I figure those cover all the ground, so over to you.   Which option would each of you prefer?

Ross.



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Re: Gresley LNER Teak Restaurant Triplet Set (RTS)
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 05:09:46 AM »
Just took a first look at this thread and read right through it.

Great stuff!  :thumbsup:  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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