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Author Topic: An issue with code 55 points...............I think  (Read 669 times)

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Offline Newportnobby

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An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« on: April 10, 2020, 12:59:03 PM »
This week, having replaced a couple of points in my fiddle yard, I have been enjoying playing testing some locos and units :D
Some issues have occurred on locos not getting through the points, specifically an 04 shunter running cab first just stuck on the point with its wheels spinning. Then my C class running tender first did the same thing on another point. Finally a Q1 running loco first did the same on another point.
What's odd is I have 2 x 04s and 2 x Q1s and the other ones ran through just fine ???
The points are in such places I'm unable to get a small mirror or my camera in position to see what's going on, but I suspect something on these locos is maybe catching on the 'pip' at the end of the tiebars. If this is the case then I'll simply remove them but don't want to do this until I have consulted the collective for advise please. Has anyone else had a similar experience and was it due to the point? Points involved are a code 55 large curved and 2 x code 55 small electrofrogs and the problem occurs on the curves (small one in the case of the curved point) not the straights.

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2020, 01:14:22 PM »
The tiebar pips aren't usually a problem, though on more recent production they're moulded with flat tops.   I do sometimes carve them off just to improve the look.

My first thought was have you fitted point motors are the pins are sticking up too high?

Droopy couplings on the locos?

On what part of the point does the loco jam up; frog end or toe end? Post a photo?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 01:17:23 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2020, 01:31:05 PM »
No point motors fitted, Nick. No droopy couplings either.
I'll attempt to get a short vid as a pic will just look like a stall, which it isn't.

Online jpendle

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2020, 03:36:44 PM »
Did you use track pins?

Is one standing proud?

As Nick says the pips at the end of the tie bar are miles away from the locos and I've never had a problem with them.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2020, 04:09:49 PM »
Track is pinned but none of the points are, John.
It is very much like that effect, though.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2020, 05:07:04 PM »
Let's take the issue with the curved point first. The C class can get through but not with ease.....

Curved point issue by Mick Hollyoake, on Flickr

and the problem seems to be in the switchblades as shown in the red square in the pic attached.

The 04 gets through the first point in a ladder of 3 but then runs into the frog 'V' of the next one with the following result.......

Ladder point issue by Mick Hollyoake, on Flickr

again, I've highlighted with a red square where the problem seems to lie. (old points put together purely to show the problem)

All other locos I've run (and there have been at least a dozen) have had no issues

Offline tutenkhamunsleeping

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2020, 05:14:48 PM »
In the first video there seems to be a pronounced notch or step half way along the nearest point blade, or is that just an illusion?

EDIT: Also, the furthest point blade seems to bend closer to the furthest rail in the middle of the blade, could that be binding against the backs of the driving wheels?
« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 05:18:22 PM by tutenkhamunsleeping »

Online chrism

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2020, 05:52:21 PM »
Do the C and the 04 behave exactly the same as in the vids when they have no train attached?

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2020, 06:32:54 PM »
First video:
is there a dog-leg at the the joint just after the point, and the tender is struggling through?  As Chrism says, does the loco manage ok without the wagons attached (just to confirm it's not one of the wagons that is the problem)?

I also wonder if the open blade is maybe too straight and causing a back-to-back issue, but with a live frog point I'd expect it to cause a short if the loco wheels were touching that open blade.

Second video:
Can't really see clearly as the view is obstructed, but again are you sure it's not one of the wagons causing the problem?   
If you gently help the 04 by hand, does it feel actually really stuck on something or just lost traction?
Can we see a clear still photo of the actual points in the ladder, rather than  your simulation?

« Last Edit: April 10, 2020, 06:39:26 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline martyn

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2020, 07:07:18 PM »
It would be unlikely, but are the sand pipes fouling somewhere?

Martyn

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2020, 09:12:15 PM »
In the first video one of the sleepers on the track attached to the point has been crushed by a track pin. This often narrows the gauge and could give problems especially if the back to back measurements of the tender or wagons are out.
John

Online ntpntpntp

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2020, 09:25:44 PM »
The more I look at the first video the more I think it's a problem with the track laying at the join on the right (as I've suggested earlier).  Watch the tender and the wagons, they all react to that joint as if there is a dog-leg which would certainly cause gauge problems with the 6-wheel tender. The tender seems to jam as the middle wheels run over the joint, and the slipping stops as soon as the tender clears that joint.
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2020, 12:26:54 AM »
I agree with Nick, there's definitely a dog leg where the track joins the toe end of the point. Given the two track pins, the one crushing the sleeper on the track and the one right at the end of the toe of the point it looks like the track didn't line up perfectly and has been 'forced' a little maybe?
You'd never catch me doing that  :no:

Well not more than once.

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline crashit

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2020, 01:59:53 AM »
Had this issue with a Dapol Pannier when laying and testing my track a few days ago. The lightest touch and it would become unstuck. It was passing through the point OK until I added the additional sleepers, removed additional sleepers and was OK again. Trimmed the sleepers to allow for the isolating rail joiner and refitted the sleepers, touch wood it is now OK.

Offline NinOz

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Re: An issue with code 55 points...............I think
« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2020, 06:01:27 AM »
Time for a straight edge to check for kinks at those track joints.
To be called pompous and arrogant - hell of a come down.
I tried so hard to be snobbish and haughty.

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