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Author Topic: Tube and wire - any advice  (Read 799 times)

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Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2020, 10:36:03 AM »
I found a good article on the forum for those interested here;
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=19227.0

My guess is that if I am to go down this route (have ordered some tube & wire to do a test) is that Sundeal board would be best for the final layout? Is it easier to 'carve' out for the tube run?
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 10:38:04 AM by IanF »
Help - I don't know what I'm doing

Offline Papyrus

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2020, 11:12:17 AM »
That's certainly one possibility. I've never used Sundeala board but it gets mixed reviews.

Another method which I have used in the past on a plywood baseboard was to cover the whole board with cork sheet then cut channels in the cork for the tubes and cover it over with scenery. Don't be discouraged if your first effort all goes horribly wrong - wire-in-tube is cheap enough that you can afford to throw it away and start again!

Cheers,

Chris
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Offline dannyboy

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2020, 12:38:38 PM »
A bit late to the party, sorry, but here goes. On my first layout, I used wire in tube for the points. There are 10 points in total and I used silicone tubing and the wire was just the cheap gardening stuff that I got from a pound shop. I found no problems with it whatsoever, including bends in the tube - one tube went through 180 degrees over a span of about 12 inches. The baseboard, 4ft x 2ft, was covered in cork and I just cut a channel in the cork for the tube. Some PVA glue held the tube in its groove, along with a few staples. One thing to note - the wire has to meet the tie bar 'square on'. Once done and tested, it was covered in 'scenickery'. The following pictures show how it looked.



David.
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Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2020, 01:06:32 PM »
That's certainly one possibility. I've never used Sundeala board but it gets mixed reviews.

Another method which I have used in the past on a plywood baseboard was to cover the whole board with cork sheet

Cheers,

Chris
I'm leaning towards cork sheet - 2mm I'm thinking. Although someone did say they were not a fan of cork but I can't sees an alternative if I'm going tube & wire. I'm happy to use SEEP motors but I'm thinking I could save a bit of money (and it sounds like fun doing tube & wire). It will be my first layout (could be my last) but I'm now leaning towards this way as an alternative to motors.
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Online ntpntpntp

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2020, 01:18:59 PM »
Cork is fine.  Personally I hate the idea of wasting cork (or indeed any material) by covering the entire board as it just results in an unrealistic totally flat surface.  On the other hand though, if you don't fancy cutting channels for the tube then you do need something to set the tube into ** unless you mount the tube on the underside of the board and use a longer L shape on the end of the wire to reach up to the point tiebar.   

It's not difficult to cut the channel into plywood using a suitable thin chisel or a Stanley knife and an old screwdriver sharpened to a chisel point  :)
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline Dorsetmike

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2020, 01:57:06 PM »
I use 50mm insulation foam board for my baseboard, track pins don't hold in that so I cover level areaswith cork tiles, also mounting point motors underneath is not viable. Foam board is easy to carve so cuttings and embankments are easy.

In a few locations running wire in tube from a central control panel may be a bit awkward,particularly if different levels are involved; in those situations I use a Peco point motor surface mounted but hidden in a building or embankment with a short wire in tube from the motor to he point.

Another item which can be very handy are angle cranks, they can allow change of direction  instead of sharp bends, also you can use them to change both points of a crossover with one lever

https://anticsonline.uk/N425/N592/N1587_mercontrol-wire-in-tube-point-control-lever/2410313_GEM-1002-Mercontrol-Angle-Cranks.html
Cheers MIKE
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Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2020, 01:58:15 PM »
** unless you mount the tube on the underside of the board and use a longer L shape on the end of the wire to reach up to the point tiebar.    [/b]

It's not difficult to cut the channel into plywood using a suitable thin chisel or a Stanley knife and an old screwdriver sharpened to a chisel point  :)

I had thought about 'going under' but hadn't come across any posts showing it done that way. I've got my 'practice' board which is 4mm ply so I'll try the chisel / stanley knife / sharpened screwdriver route first and see how that goes - this could get messy :goggleeyes: as my old Dad once said I had hands like pigs trotters!
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Online jpendle

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #22 on: March 28, 2020, 02:21:11 PM »
I use 1 inch XPS Extruded Polystyrene, which cuts and carves easily. I assume that something similar would be available in the UK.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #23 on: March 28, 2020, 03:16:05 PM »
I found this but I don't know how rigid it is - suitable for baseboard? Anybody else used similar at 6mm?
https://underfloorheating-direct.com/premium-xps-boards-26380-p.asp?_=&variantid=26381&gclid=Cj0KCQjw6_vzBRCIARIsAOs54z4y_yJw16oaWSEfOCvkZK1DdLJ9Yl7jOPAwzciS-zfloYAj2_y_Db4aAh7GEALw_wcB

Have just tried the stanley knife and sharpened screwdriver on a piece of 4mm ply - actually worked a treat :claphappy:
Still - interested to know if anyone used this thin board
« Last Edit: March 28, 2020, 03:20:23 PM by IanF »
Help - I don't know what I'm doing

Online jpendle

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #24 on: March 28, 2020, 03:49:14 PM »
Hi,

I use the 1 inch thick version for my baseboards. It is lightweight and rigid, needs braced underneath of course.

You can see it on my layout thread.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2020, 03:20:10 PM »
So I have another question regarding single slip.
On the proposed layout I have a single slip and because I am not 'well up' on the terminology or how things worked in practice I need to know;
1) On my single slip would it be best to have routes;
Routes A to Z / A to Y and Y to B (plus reverse of course)? Or should the last route be Z to B?

Forgive my non-understanding - I'm guessing there are plenty of experts out there who will know best - and then I'll know  :)



Help - I don't know what I'm doing

Online jpendle

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2020, 03:28:03 PM »
Hi,

So, A-Z, A-Y, & Y to B are impossible together on a single slip.

A-Y and B-Z are not optional, that's just how it works. You're only decision is whether you want A-Z or B- Y.

So assuming that you need you bottom left siding to be used as a headshunt for the right hand side sidings then you would need to pick B-Y.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Online chrism

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2020, 03:30:04 PM »
So I have another question regarding single slip.
On the proposed layout I have a single slip and because I am not 'well up' on the terminology or how things worked in practice I need to know;
1) On my single slip would it be best to have routes;
Routes A to Z / A to Y and Y to B (plus reverse of course)? Or should the last route be Z to B?


Yes. A single slip only has a curved route along one side of a diamond crossing so, depending which way around you install it, you could have A-Z or B-Y but not both.

Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2020, 03:39:55 PM »
Hi,

So, A-Z, A-Y, & Y to B are impossible together on a single slip.

A-Y and B-Z are not optional, that's just how it works. You're only decision is whether you want A-Z or B- Y.

So assuming that you need you bottom left siding to be used as a headshunt for the right hand side sidings then you would need to pick B-Y.

Regards,

John P

Thanks John (and chrism) don't I feel a numpty :dunce:
Anyway - yes the bottom left is required for headshunt so B-Y will be the route
So if I'm heading down from A I can still reach Z because this is my passing loop?
I'm starting to confuse myself (again - easily done) - how do I get into the sidings B from A?
Help - I don't know what I'm doing

Offline IanF

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Re: Tube and wire - any advice
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2020, 03:46:02 PM »
I think I have it - its a diamond crossing with a slip on one side?
So A to Y & B to Z are the crossing points and then B to Y is my slip  :claphappy:

BUT..... I will have to use A to Z as the slip and use this as my headshunt for sidings at B. The plan was to use lower left siding as coal loading


« Last Edit: March 29, 2020, 04:20:57 PM by IanF »
Help - I don't know what I'm doing

 

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