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Author Topic: Humbledon  (Read 16960 times)

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Offline degsy_safc

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Humbledon
« on: February 21, 2020, 10:25:27 AM »
Hi All,

I was thinking of creating my baseboards using 3x1 bracing timbers with a 9mm ply top and then on top of that 9mm Sundeala. Then started thinking about point motors and the length of the switching rod. Iím undecided whether to splash out on cobalts to get the benefit from the Z21 or go for something cheaper - just seen the PECO Twistlock versions and they look tidy.

Anyway they say that the bar will only pass through a 15mm baseboard so Iíd have to ditch the Sundeala if i opted for Twistlocks.

This throws up a coupe of questions please:

1 - Does anyone fix track directly to ply or use some form of underlay such as cork?

2 - What is the general consensus on point motors, as I think £20+ for a single digital cobalt is a bit steep.

Many thanks in advance

Cheers Derek
« Last Edit: April 07, 2020, 07:42:47 PM by degsy_safc, Reason: Change Subject Name »
Cheers Derek

Online longbow

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2020, 10:48:55 AM »
Unless you need baseboards that you can walk on, 9mm marine ply would be more than adequate for both top and bracing.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2020, 10:51:49 AM »
Speaking personally 3 x 1 framing with 9mm ply topped off with 9mm sundeala is way OTT and I would not like to hump any boards around made like that without several cans of spinach. :laugh:

Offline Innovationgame

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2020, 10:59:21 AM »
I use 9mm ply tops and they seem ideal fr me.  I use cork underlay:
 https://modelrailwaysolutions.co.uk/shop/n-scale/n-gauge-self-adhesive-cork-underlay/code-55/n-gauge-self-adhesive-cork-underlay-5-metre-pack
It gives a good shoulder and protects the ply surface if ever you have to take up the track.  It's also good for producing a nice ballast shoulder for the track.  It's flecible and can be bent to very tight radii.  I don't give much credence to the idea that it deadens sound, nor that sound deadening is affected by ballast..  I find that some locos make a lot of noise, whether on ballasted track or not and a few make virtually no noise, even on ballasted sections.

As far as the Cobalts are concerned, they are brilliant.  If you buy multipacks of six or twelve, they are a bit cheaper, less than £17.00 each (although they may have gone up a bit).  I started with Seeps, but after about a year, I binned them and replaced them with Cobalts.

That's just my personal opinion, of course, but I hope it helps.
With kind regards
Laurence
My personal website is a bit of a mish mash: www.innovationgame.com
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Online Bealman

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2020, 11:37:24 AM »
9mm ply as trackbed is pretty standard, but 2x1 is sufficient from framing.

My own layout was completely over-engineered in that regard. :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline Gizzy

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2020, 11:49:52 AM »
I had a lightweight base board built for me by Robin Hair in Cambridge. He used 3mm ply for the top and the bearers.

Although I didn't specify it, he covered it with a 3mm cork underlay. As such, he didn't charge me for the extra.

However, I'm using Kato track, so the only holes I needed to drill were for the points and power feed wiring. I've screwed my track down(but not the points), as I didn't think track pins would be sufficient for a portable layout....
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 01:06:14 PM by Gizzy »
Gizzy

Gentleman, scholar, railway modeller....

Online Bealman

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2020, 11:55:46 AM »
Point motors....

All mine are Peco solenoids which are basic, but work fine if installed carefully.
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2020, 12:17:49 PM »
Unless you need baseboards that you can walk on, 9mm marine ply would be more than adequate for both top and bracing.

Thanks longbow - Itís not marine ply itís hardwood ply, not as structurally solid, but still pretty robust.
Cheers Derek

Offline degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2020, 12:20:48 PM »
Speaking personally 3 x 1 framing with 9mm ply topped off with 9mm sundeala is way OTT and I would not like to hump any boards around made like that without several cans of spinach. :laugh:
Cheers Newportnobby - Once itís fixed itís staying put lol, was only going to use the Sundeala top as itís easy to push pins into it. Will duff the Sundeala now and stick with the ply, with maybe cork trackbed.
Cheers Derek

Offline degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2020, 12:26:04 PM »
I use 9mm ply tops and they seem ideal fr me.  I use cork underlay:
 https://modelrailwaysolutions.co.uk/shop/n-scale/n-gauge-self-adhesive-cork-underlay/code-55/n-gauge-self-adhesive-cork-underlay-5-metre-pack
It gives a good shoulder and protects the ply surface if ever you have to take up the track.  It's also good for producing a nice ballast shoulder for the track.  It's flecible and can be bent to very tight radii.  I don't give much credence to the idea that it deadens sound, nor that sound deadening is affected by ballast..  I find that some locos make a lot of noise, whether on ballasted track or not and a few make virtually no noise, even on ballasted sections.

As far as the Cobalts are concerned, they are brilliant.  If you buy multipacks of six or twelve, they are a bit cheaper, less than £17.00 each (although they may have gone up a bit).  I started with Seeps, but after about a year, I binned them and replaced them with Cobalts.

That's just my personal opinion, of course, but I hope it helps.

Many thanks Innovationgame- from what I can gather the cobalts are quite deep - so if I ever need to lay the boards flat would 3x1 framing be needed for point motor clearance on the underside?
Cheers Derek

Offline degsy_safc

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2020, 12:31:13 PM »
9mm ply as trackbed is pretty standard, but 2x1 is sufficient from framing.

My own layout was completely over-engineered in that regard. :thumbsup:

Cheers Bealman - Iíve bought the 3 x 1 now lol, but if I go for cobalts they are quite deep anyway so I guess for clearance Iíd need 3x1 anyway?

Are you keeping an eye on the footie results - keep your fingers crossed, getting to the business end of the season now and by hook or by crook weíre grinding out results

Haway the lads..

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

Online Bealman

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2020, 12:36:29 PM »
Yes indeed. Promising, fingers crossed!  :beers:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2020, 12:55:42 PM »
Certainly don't need 9mm sundeala as well as the 9mm ply top.   Use thin cork strip for the track bed if you wish (I always do), but expect to pin through into the ply if you choose to pin the track (I glue it rather than pin it). You could just use the sundeala top without the ply as long as you have sufficient cross bracing for support, but it won't give you a good material to mount point motors underneath.   Better still go for an open frame design (with ply trackbed on risers) to allow for undulating scenery.

3x1 frame is a better choice than 2x1 if you want to be sure you leave enough room underneath to accommodate point motors and their accessory switches safely.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2020, 12:59:30 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "KŲnigshafen" exhibition layout!
https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=50050.0

Offline springwood

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2020, 01:22:03 PM »
Point motors....

All mine are Peco solenoids which are basic, but work fine if installed carefully.

Yes, fully agree with you there, Bealman. All bar one of my 16 points are peco and work they work great. After a few instals, I refined my technique and efficiency to the point(!) where they became relatively easy to wire up and fit. The odd one out is a seep pm1 which I bought to see what they were like but didn't particularly like it and began to hear not so favourable reports on its ability to withstand regular use over long periods of time. I have used it though!!

Offline jpendle

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Re: Baseboard Surface
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2020, 03:51:54 PM »

2 - What is the general consensus on point motors, as I think £20+ for a single digital cobalt is a bit steep.

Many thanks in advance

Cheers Derek

There isn't a general consensus on point motors, it's each to their own. You'll have to decide whether you want solenoids or slow motion, cheap or expensive, and that will then determine how much you need to spend on a suitable decoder to control the points from DCC if that is your ultimate goal.
You also need to factor in how able you are to be crawling around under a layout or whether your layout is modular so that you can flip baseboards over to work on them.

Here's my experience.

I tried Peco motors under an MDF top, getting under the layout (on 3'6" legs) to drill holes was a pain and getting the motors aligned to N Gauge points was tricky.
I also tried mounting the Peco motors directly to the points, but that needed a very large hole to be cut. After trying and failing to get two Peco motors to work under a single slip I gave up on solenoids.

Today I use 1" thick Extruded Polystyrene for my baseboards. It is rigid, and when suitably braced works well. It is also very lightweight.
I have switched to Tortoise point motors, which here in the US are not much more expensive than a Peco solenoid with an added accessory switch.
I use NCE Switch 8's for point control, but this does mean that I have to turn Railcom off on my Z21.
To mount the motors I use a template to mark out a rectangle of XPS which I then cut out from the baseboard, I then glue the point motor to the bottom of it and then glue the whole thing back into the baseboard, no more crawling around in the floor with cordless drill, and a torch  :D
You can see more details on my layout thread.

I must emphasise that although this works for me, it won't suit everyone.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

 

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