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Author Topic: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s  (Read 1009 times)

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Offline MarshLane

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Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« on: February 15, 2020, 12:13:35 PM »
Well I may regret starting this thread so early, but as I am seeking a bit of help it seemed logical rather than having a couple of different threads for different things.

I am finally making a start on my 2mm Finescale layout, based loosely on Treeton Junction.  For those of you not in Yorkshire, Treeton is on the 'old road' between Rotherham Masborough and Barrow Hill, and was the southern point of a triangle that formed the eastern exit from Tinsley Yard at Sheffield.  As well as being two track from the box north to Rotherham, it was four-track from the junction south to Barrow Hill, and could be busy place back in the late 1970s/early 1980s with north/south traffic as well as arriving and departing freights for Tinsley.

The plan is to base the layout on the location in terms of surroundings and track layout, but its position will alter slightly for reasons that will become apparent later on. Primarily a freight layout, some cross-country and local passenger services will appear from time to time (hence the loosely!).  It will be a slow build, and I was going to hold of posting about it anywhere (although I do have a workbench thread on rmWeb) because I am not a fan of things the cannot really show anything!  The rmWeb thread is concentrating on learning the art of turnout building at the moment, but there is plenty to come on locomotive modifications, detailing and repainting too!  This thread will be a slow build, but once the first set of baseboards are built and the pointwork is complete, things will hopefully move a bit.

Baseboard advice?
However, when Ive build small layouts in the past, it has had a 2x1 or 2x2 framework and chipboard or 5-ply top. Its worked ok, but the move to 2mm Finescale with this layout has given me the incentive to think if I am hand building the trackwork to get it right and looking good, lets do the baseboards the same way.  Therefore I am going for an open frame design with the trackbed raised slightly, so that the scenery can flow around it and hopefully look better.  I am currently working out the final track plan in Templot, which I'll post once I am happy with it.

Having never build an open frame layout before, can anyone offer any advice?  Specifically any pitfalls, things to do, or things to avoid?  The layout will be portable - while I doubt it will interest anyone from an exhibition position, it will be erected in the living room when running, so needs to be packed away for obvious reasons.  I am therefore keen to keep it lightweight but solid.  At home it will almost certainly just be me, so erecting it needs to be a one-man operation.  I am therefore thinking of 3' x 2' as a maximum (give or take an inch or two, depending on where the turnouts fall on the Templot plan) - to be manageable, and probably needs some form of cart to move them from the living room to the shed for storage, so again that kind of size seems manageable.  I am planning on acquiring a sliding mitre saw to make the woodwork easier (the local B&Q has a MacAlistar MMIS210S in for £90) - my straight line hand sawing maybe renowned with the family for not quite being that straight  :(

But I welcome any thoughts, comments and (polite!) suggestions from anyone please.

Rich

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2020, 01:37:57 PM »
All I can offer, and this applies to solid and open frame baseboards, is to avoid adding battens until it is known where points will be. Yes, I know it makes sense but I wonder just how many have fallen foul of completing the baseboards before laying the track. It really only applies to anyone using under board motors. Likewise if you have tracks crossing tracks don't have a point on the bridge as adding a point motor may cause a height/obstacle issue.
Good luck. I like open frame baseboards.

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2020, 01:56:24 PM »
All I can offer, and this applies to solid and open frame baseboards, is to avoid adding battens until it is known where points will be. Yes, I know it makes sense but I wonder just how many have fallen foul of completing the baseboards before laying the track. It really only applies to anyone using under board motors. Likewise if you have tracks crossing tracks don't have a point on the bridge as adding a point motor may cause a height/obstacle issue.
Good luck. I like open frame baseboards.

Thats a logical point (excuse the pun!).  I am going to avoid cutting any wood until the Templot track plan is set in stone and printed out, so that should get me around that one, but thanks for putting it forward, easy to forget, and yes have made the mistake before!  Point will be controlled by servos (controlled themselves by MERG boards), as I think the slower movement will be better for handbuilt trackwork.

Rich

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2020, 01:59:29 PM »
Allow plenty of space for point motors, wiring  aCcess under boards

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2020, 07:22:00 PM »
Guys,
Thanks for the feedback so far. Much appreciated.  My current line of thought is to use 9mm ply for the sides and cross members, with 18mm ply, together with pattern makers dowels for the ends. However, I am going try and establish a level datum point so that the cross members can be cut to the correct outline on the baseboard top.  That at lease is the plan. The cross members I'll drill some 1inch diameter holes in to reduce the weight and also pass the cables through.  I have yet to work out how the supporting framework for the legs and stand will come together, these need to fold down to take up the minimum amount of space when stored.

I am giving some thought to the electrical planning as all this is coming together and have narrowed it down to either 5 or 6-pin DIN plugs, or 9-pin D Sub connectors, depending on the number of wires to be patched through.

Rich

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2020, 07:23:54 PM »
So plenty of class 08, 20, 37, 47,56,58 and dmu action rich ?

Offline degsy_safc

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2020, 08:00:20 PM »
I am planning on acquiring a sliding mitre saw to make the woodwork easier (the local B&Q has a MacAlistar MMIS210S in for £90) - my straight line hand sawing maybe renowned with the family for not quite being that straight  :(

But I welcome any thoughts, comments and (polite!) suggestions from anyone please.

Rich
Hi Rich,

Not sure if you’ve had / used a compound mitre saw before, but you need to be aware that you need to check the blade for square against the rear fence and table before you make any cuts - it’s not certain that it will be set up square out the factory - they are supposed to be, but not guaranteed to be accurate.

Additionally they have a maximum crosscut width (I cannot find anything against this specific model), depending on the timbers you are cutting you may find this not wide enough for baseboard plywood sheets.

Similarly they also have a maximum depth of cut - you shouldn’t have any issues cutting say 2x2 3x2 3x1 4x1 but anything greater you’ll need to find out the maximum cross & depth cuts of the saw.

Be prepared for lots of sawdust, the built in dust bags catch a ‘little’ bit but to be honest it’s hardly any, I use a Henry hoover attached to my evolution saw for dust extraction and although it collect quite a lot compared to the bag - there is always loads extra to clean up afterwards.

Anyway thought I’d just share with you, just in case you’ve never had one of these before and wanted you to be aware before you splash out £’s on something that might not do what you’re expecting it to do..

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2020, 08:53:06 PM »
So plenty of class 08, 20, 37, 47,56,58 and dmu action rich ?

Thats the plan!  20s, 25s, 31s, 37s, 40s, 45s, 47s and 56s - might have to be a rule #1 sneek in of a 58!  But DMUs on the local passengers - with the odd 31s with Mk1s in the mix - plus 45s, 47s and perhaps the odd 50 on cross-country workings.  But primarily freight action with wagonload, steel and various block workings.  The junction area will hopefully have working semaphore signals too - that's the eventual aim.

Rich

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2020, 09:01:24 PM »
Hi Rich,

Not sure if you’ve had / used a compound mitre saw before, but you need to be aware that you need to check the blade for square against the rear fence and table before you make any cuts - it’s not certain that it will be set up square out the factory - they are supposed to be, but not guaranteed to be accurate.

Additionally they have a maximum crosscut width (I cannot find anything against this specific model), depending on the timbers you are cutting you may find this not wide enough for baseboard plywood sheets.

Similarly they also have a maximum depth of cut - you shouldn’t have any issues cutting say 2x2 3x2 3x1 4x1 but anything greater you’ll need to find out the maximum cross & depth cuts of the saw.

Be prepared for lots of sawdust, the built in dust bags catch a ‘little’ bit but to be honest it’s hardly any, I use a Henry hoover attached to my evolution saw for dust extraction and although it collect quite a lot compared to the bag - there is always loads extra to clean up afterwards.

Anyway thought I’d just share with you, just in case you’ve never had one of these before and wanted you to be aware before you splash out £’s on something that might not do what you’re expecting it to do..

Cheers Derek

Hi Derek,
Many thanks for that, a really good insight. I have not had a compound mitre saw before - have Black & Decker circular saw and assumed it would be fairly similar, just more strictly controlled and on a stand!  I had wondered about the maximum crosscut when I pulled the one in B&W out to maximum width it seemed to be about 4-5 inches, but looking at the picture I took on the phone of the detail card:





This suggest the crosscut is about a foot, although I've read on the web that MacAlistair (which is presume is a B&Q own brand) are awful for spares, so that may not be the best option!

Rich

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2020, 09:18:37 PM »
To give people an idea of what I am thinking, this is Treeton South Junction in the same period - with 47333 on 26th May 1982


Linked from Flickr - Chris Davis - https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris_davis_photos/7913274064

The 47 was the view looking north, the former lines to Tinsley curving to the left, while the main line to Rotherham Central went straight on.

While the view to the south included a couple of sidings for berthing mineral wagons:
Again, linked from Flicker - John Turner - https://flic.kr/p/dg4hPT

The track layout will be changed slightly in the latter view in that the two sidings on the far right will be removed, with the slow line continuing under the bridge.

Rich

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2020, 09:27:08 PM »
Wouldn't worry too much about supply of spares Rich.

310 x 65mm cut will be more than adequate for most diy usage. Blades will last plenty of cuts unless you hit something other then wood.

Looks a pretty decent bit of kit for £90

Offline degsy_safc

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2020, 10:49:27 PM »
Hi Derek,
Many thanks for that, a really good insight. I have not had a compound mitre saw before - have Black & Decker circular saw and assumed it would be fairly similar, just more strictly controlled and on a stand!  I had wondered about the maximum crosscut when I pulled the one in B&W out to maximum width it seemed to be about 4-5 inches, but looking at the picture I took on the phone of the detail card:





This suggest the crosscut is about a foot, although I've read on the web that MacAlistair (which is presume is a B&Q own brand) are awful for spares, so that may not be the best option!

Rich
Hi Rich,

No worries, the spec from your picture does suggest that max cross cut will be 310mm (like you say 1.25 feet) and about 2.5 inches deep so more than fine for supporting battens. It does have a dust extraction port - this is where the bag attaches, can be seen on your picture  - if you have an old hoover may be good to hook it up to that, may need an adapter tube but pretty cheap. Don’t use a ‘good’ everyday hoover though, there is a lot of sawdust going in there.

I know we all like to think about future proofing, but to be honest if you take care of the saw (clean after use etc) it should keep going for a good while so the need for spares is probably insignificant. Changing the standard blade is something you may want to do for a finer cut (more teeth / inch) but you have to buy same size I.e 210mm with a 30mm bore, look for something with maybe 42 teeth / inch, doesn’t need to be a MacAllister blade though, just make sure you mount it the right way round, most have an arrow to show direction of travel.

Firstly - if you are doing an angled cut (blade on say 45 degrees slope to the left, the left lower fence needs to be slid in a left direction, otherwise you’ll cut straight through it, there should be a nut on the back to allow it to slide out the way...

When you do your cuts remember to take into consideration the kerf of the blade (thickness) - so if you mark a pencil line and you drop the blade to the line the left side of the blade will generally be your final cut. So if you put the blade right on the line the cut will be shorter than desired.

Always let the blade slow down to a stop after the cut, before you remove your piece, if you lift the blade prematurely the waste can be fired out the back at a ridiculous speed (google YouTube mitre saw hints and tips) Don’t rush the cut, perform a nice and smooth down then forward motion. Be very very wary of small pieces, your fingers will be very close to the blade - not recommended.

Probably one of the best bits of kit I’ve ever bought, along with my track saw, but equally something to be very careful when using.

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

Offline Bealman

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2020, 11:02:45 PM »
Good to learn you're going with open frame. Gives you lots of flexibility with scenery.  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2020, 11:11:13 PM »
Look forward to watching this develop! Having dabbled in handbuilt track I’m definitely ‘all in’ next time around, albeit n gauge turnouts with 2FS plain track, too much stock go re-wheel!

Offline Bealman

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2020, 11:44:51 PM »
Yes, replacing wheels on a large amount of stock would definitely be a limiting factor.

I read the Blueball Summit article in a recent MRJ, and was surprised but impressed that standard N gauge stock ran on the trackwork no problems.

So it can be done!
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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