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Author Topic: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s  (Read 1004 times)

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Offline JasonBz

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2020, 12:22:30 AM »
If you are still in the market for a Chop Saw, may I recommend those made by Evolution?
They are very good, not expensive and, best of all, the company is based just down the line from Treeton Junction :)

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #16 on: February 17, 2020, 01:03:50 AM »
No worries, the spec from your picture does suggest that max cross cut will be 310mm (like you say 1.25 feet) and about 2.5 inches deep so more than fine for supporting battens.

Changing the standard blade is something you may want to do for a finer cut (more teeth / inch) but you have to buy same size I.e 210mm with a 30mm bore, look for something with maybe 42 teeth / inch, doesnít need to be a MacAllister blade though, just make sure you mount it the right way round, most have an arrow to show direction of travel.

Derek,
Thanks again for the detailed response, some really useful hints/tips and thoughts in there. Iíve printed it off for reference! Iíll certainly look at the blade options, before I purchase one.

Good to learn you're going with open frame. Gives you lots of flexibility with scenery.  :thumbsup:

Cheers. Itís another learning curve, but as part of the main line will decrease in height, to allow the branch to pass over the top, I think it will be well worth the effort. One thing I have got to work out are the gradients. I am going to try and minimise things by having one rise up 50% of the height, and one drop down. I suspect Iíll need to do som testing to see what a Class 47 or 56 with 28HAA wagons can manage. I think that will be the longest/heaviest train.

Look forward to watching this develop! Having dabbled in handbuilt track Iím definitely Ďall iní next time around, albeit n gauge turnouts with 2FS plain track, too much stock go re-wheel!

Thanks! I have Ďhummedí and Ďarrrghedí over it. My local 2mm Association Area Group are fantastic with help and support (as well as encouragement) so it made that decision a bit easier. Yes the rewheeling is a pain, but we spend so much on locos and wagons these days that I came to the conclusion it was a minor issue, just means saving up a little longer for things! Plus withvdeciding to handbuilt the points and trackwork, I had a little voice constantly questioning the logic of staying with N Gauge! I am lucky in that respect, that fleetwise is currently about 40 wagons, two DMUs and two Class 56s! So not much rewheeling to start with.

I read the Blueball Summit article in a recent MRJ, and was surprised but impressed that standard N gauge stock ran on the trackwork no problems.

So it can be done!

Iíll have to take a look at that. Iíd have thought the flanges through the pointwork would have caused issues?

If you are still in the market for a Chop Saw, may I recommend those made by Evolution?
They are very good, not expensive and, best of all, the company is based just down the line from Treeton Junction :)

Cheers Jason, iíll take a look. To be honest the MacAllister one was only the second one iíve looked at, so recommendations are welcome.

Rich

Online njee20

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #17 on: February 17, 2020, 10:04:05 AM »
Blueball Summit is 2FS plain track with N gauge gauge pointwork (which is what I'm sold on). 9.42mm plain track is fine with N gauge wheels, it's only the pointwork which causes problems, and you can just gradually close the gauge to 9mm.

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #18 on: February 17, 2020, 12:24:19 PM »
Blueball Summit is 2FS plain track with N gauge gauge pointwork (which is what I'm sold on). 9.42mm plain track is fine with N gauge wheels, it's only the pointwork which causes problems, and you can just gradually close the gauge to 9mm.

Ah that make sense, yes N gauge rolling stock should work fine on the 2FS plain track - no disrespect to Wayne in anyway, but the 2FS version is slightly cheaper than the Finetrax plain as well, which is genuine thought if you've got several metres to sort out.

Having now put several lengths together, the 2mm Association jig is really easy to use and the result is quick and good - just remember to lightly file the end of the rail so it slides in well, oh and get it the right way up.  That saves much bad language after you discover what you've been doing for the past 10 minutes was upside down!  :veryangry:  :veryangry:

Rich

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #19 on: February 17, 2020, 12:31:44 PM »
If you are still in the market for a Chop Saw, may I recommend those made by Evolution?
They are very good, not expensive and, best of all, the company is based just down the line from Treeton Junction :)

Jason,
Thanks for the pointer on these.  They certainly look good machines and well produced.  I am in a little of a quandary as to which way to go now!  The machine that has the equivalent  cutting width and depth to the one in B&W is this R255-SMS+ model (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r255sms_plus/) but that's taking the cost to around the £150 at some places (or £190RRP).  For what I am going to use it on I am not sure thats justified? 

Which begs two questions, a) do I need to go to 300mm width and b) if not, is it better to keep the price down and stick to the MacAlistair, or is the Evolution a better quality, in which case go for something like the R185-SMS+ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r185sms_plus/) which is around £100 in stores (£130 RRP).  That has a cross cut of 210mm x 56m.  I like that the Evolution ones have the ability to acquire the base in the future, which could be a better option than a workmate that I was thinking of.

I appreciate we're getting away from railways slightly with this query, but to anyone who has one of these type of saws that you've used for baseboard construction - any thoughts?

Rich

Offline JasonBz

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #20 on: February 17, 2020, 09:09:34 PM »
They have expanded and altered thier range since I bought mine a few years ago.

Mine is a Evolution Rage 3 - its not a sliding saw. just a chop saw but it cuts most things (and materials!) I have ever tried it with.
 I have also got a "proper" table saw (and a a jig saw or two and circular saws and hand saws..... )

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2020, 09:45:50 PM »
They certainly look good machines and well produced.  I am in a little of a quandary as to which way to go now!  The machine that has the equivalent  cutting width and depth to the one in B&W is this R255-SMS+ model (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r255sms_plus/) but that's taking the cost to around the £150 at some places (or £190RRP).  For what I am going to use it on I am not sure thats justified?

Hi Rich,

This evolution saw you link to here is the exact model I have - itís a good saw for sure, I use it for all sorts of small woodwork projects. Have made hexagonal wall shelves, tea trays, chopping boards and also for cutting mitres on  backmould for a small job in the house. It will get you very nice cuts for the baseboard frame. Itís cuts more than wood, it cuts metal with the same blade as you use for cutting wood.

Which begs two questions, a) do I need to go to 300mm width and b) if not, is it better to keep the price down and stick to the MacAlistair, or is the Evolution a better quality, in which case go for something like the R185-SMS+ (https://www.evolutionpowertools.com/uk/build/mitresaws/r185sms_plus/) which is around £100 in stores (£130 RRP).  That has a cross cut of 210mm x 56m.  I like that the Evolution ones have the ability to acquire the base in the future, which could be a better option than a workmate that I was thinking of?

Will your open frame baseboard have plywood sections of up to 300mm - if so then you can use it for cutting those, but only the ends not the long runs. Additionally youíll be able to bevel cut those ends, so if you have a gradient to angle to another section of ply youíll be able to cut that with the saw as long as itís less than 300mm.

The evolution 255 sms comes with an adjustable laser (in the sense that if itís not square you can adjust it, bit fiddly but it can be done) which can be a handy guide when you are making your cuts. My saw blade was not square out of the factory - you need a small engineers square and small 45 degree set square to ensure that you can square the blade properly, donít go off the marked scale mine is slightly off.

I have the evolution stand, it was £49 and is superb in my opinion, better than trying to use it on the floor. The saw is locked into position at a nice comfortable height, and the ends are adjustable to hold longer sections of wood. Based on the fittings, and how the saw fits to the locking levers Iím pretty sure you could use the same stand with multiple makes of saw.

Donít forget what I said the other night - the evolution produces a lot of sawdust, even though I have a Henry hoover attached to the dust extraction port.

If you donít think youíll be making any cuts at 300mm go for the smaller blade, that probably doesnít have a laser, but you can align the blade to the line before you press the start button.

If you think it will be just cuts on bracing timbers, why not just buy a mitre box and tenon saw to get 90 degree cuts - remember to always cut on the waste side of your line, measure twice and use a sharp marking pencil for accuracy.

You can still cut short with the compound mitre saw by putting the blade on the line which means the kerf will take away maybe 1mm of wood you donít want to cut ..

Hope this helps - if you have any more questions fire away

Cheers Derek

Cheers Derek

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #22 on: February 18, 2020, 12:44:47 PM »
@JasonBz and @degsy_safc - Thanks for that.  Im going to sit and ponder that one for a few days.  One of the things that attracted me to these saws was the ability to get a perfect straight saw line.  Something that can (but not easily I find) be achieved with a circular saw.  But Jason's comment about a table saw has also set me thinking. 

I am planning on 9mm for the sides and cross bearers, with 18mm at the outer ends.  I am assuming something like an 8' x 4' sheet will be the most cost effective so given that I can get the wood cut at the merchants into more manageable pieces, it has occurred to me whether a table saw might be the better option.  The Evolution ones can still be tilted to give a slope for the track level on the grade.  Im thinking aloud at this point, but I think it will come down to either a table saw or the R255SMS+ and stand.

Grades
That brings me to another query, there is a point where the main lines will drop down with the branch running over the top. Im working on 1-in-60/1-in-70 for the grades, with the branch rising little higher than the main line will drop if that makes sense.  But what is the generally accepted gap in 2mm between the top of the loco and the bottom of the board above?  Im thinking of the bridge structure?

Rich

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #23 on: February 18, 2020, 12:50:05 PM »
But what is the generally accepted gap in 2mm between the top of the loco and the bottom of the board above?  Im thinking of the bridge structure?


With code 55 track on 1.5mm commercial grade rubber I found the nominal 44mm planed timber known as 2" x 1" was fine clearance wise for my steam and diseasel stock but wouldn't recommend it for anything with pantographs :no:

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #24 on: February 18, 2020, 02:53:49 PM »
With code 55 track on 1.5mm commercial grade rubber I found the nominal 44mm planed timber known as 2" x 1" was fine clearance wise for my steam and diseasel stock but wouldn't recommend it for anything with pantographs :no:

Thanks - So if I work on around 45mm from the baseboard height of the lower level, to the bottom of the top level baseboard, it should be a nicely apportioned gap shouldn't it. Im thinking that I need to leave room for the bridge steelwork or brick arch.

Offline crewearpley40

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #25 on: February 18, 2020, 03:05:09 PM »
It's a method mick the moderator knows and I have used myself.

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #26 on: February 18, 2020, 04:20:12 PM »
With code 55 track on 1.5mm commercial grade rubber I found the nominal 44mm planed timber known as 2" x 1" was fine clearance wise for my steam and diseasel stock but wouldn't recommend it for anything with pantographs :no:

Thanks - So if I work on around 45mm from the baseboard height of the lower level, to the bottom of the top level baseboard, it should be a nicely apportioned gap shouldn't it. Im thinking that I need to leave room for the bridge steelwork or brick arch.

I donít know this as Iím a total newbie where n guage is concerned but will 45mm leave enough clearance for point motors if you have any points on the branch line? If you do then a larger clearance may be necessary?

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #27 on: February 18, 2020, 05:03:06 PM »
I donít know this as Iím a total newbie where n guage is concerned but will 45mm leave enough clearance for point motors if you have any points on the branch line? If you do then a larger clearance may be necessary?
Cheers Derek

Hi Derek,
Thanks for the thought. That should be ok, as the lower level will cross on something like a 45 degree crossing and there won't be any points on the bridge itself.  Just after yes, but the servos will be well clear of the bridge area.

Rich

Offline MarshLane

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2020, 01:16:48 AM »
 :veryangry: Just thought id post a quick update - unfortunately my PC laptop died during the week, so until it is replaced, there's no more working on Templot! I am hoping to resolve it in the next week or so, as soon as I have time, then I can progress further.  Good job I backed everything up to a USB key last weekend!

Rich

Online degsy_safc

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Re: Treeton Junction - South Yorkshire in the early-mid 1980s
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2020, 10:36:57 AM »
:veryangry: Just thought id post a quick update - unfortunately my PC laptop died during the week, so until it is replaced, there's no more working on Templot! I am hoping to resolve it in the next week or so, as soon as I have time, then I can progress further.  Good job I backed everything up to a USB key last weekend!

Rich

Good luck with the laptop situation Rich..

Backups are key, I do a bit of wildlife photography and lost quite a lot of images a few years back when a hard drive failed. Have auto backup now using the Mac Timemachine and also a cloner program for my photos..

Cheers Derek
Cheers Derek

 

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