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Author Topic: British Outline Cars 1980s -1990s NOW WITH POLL  (Read 1466 times)

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Offline woodbury22uk

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British Outline Cars 1980s -1990s NOW WITH POLL
« on: January 23, 2020, 11:05:24 AM »
Thanks to @Alexjb there are now polls for two ten year periods.

Vote if you want to make a case for the most popular models to be made in N 1/148.



1980-1989: https://www.strawpoll.me/19978071

1990-1999: https://www.strawpoll.me/19978092





About 10 years ago when I first joined the N Gauge Forum I recall being given a hard time by a very active member because I complained about my forlorn hope to see British cars from the 1980s and 1990s reproduced to modern standards in 1/148 scale, without doing anything positive to change the situation. My criticism of myself was seen by the member as an unfair criticism of him and his similar hopes. He is no longer a member here.

My idea back then, was, and still is, that there needed to be concerted input to the choice of which vehicles should be made, a serious amount of research into the detailed bodyshape, dimensions, and colours employed, etc., coupled with a credible business case. Identifying vehicles in original condition to scan would be a bonus.

For industrial manufacturers like Oxford Diecast each shape needs to generate sales of between 10000 and 15000 to cover the costs of research, licensing, design, tooling, manufacturing, licensee approvals, packaging, promotion, distribution and profit. Evidently this is not a straightforward proposition in 1/148 scale, because it seems that there is not a queue of manufacturers willing to offer product in the relatively small British market. There are much better returns likely to be achieved in British 1/76 and US/continental European 1/87 scales, where there are bigger collector elements in the market not relying so much on model railway enthusiasts.

The question of post-1980 cars is posed just as often in other N scales and markets, and we are not spoilt for the choice of US, Japanese, other Far East, and European cars from the era. Fortunately there are some Japanese cars offered in 1/150 scale by Kato and Tomytec which are fine alongside 1/148 scale, but the various 1/160 scale Audis, Fiats, Fords, Mercedes, Skodas and VWs generally do not seem to be acceptable to purist UK modellers. Companies like Herpa, Rietze and Wiking restrict themselves to 1/160 for N, and the number of new shapes for the post 1980 era grows very, very slowly in their ranges.

So I have a proposition. We should use the N Gauge Forum as the place to draw up a shortlist of probable 1/148 scale winners, and carry out the market size research to support a case to a manufacturer. I recognise that there are parallel markets for light vans, medium size trucks, and larger and specialist vehicles. But letís stick with cars for now

This would be a 3 stage process.

1. Produce an initial poll to narrow the choices- with the poll list taking guidance from the best sellers lists of real cars across small, medium and large car categories.
2. Use the results of that poll to narrow down the list further to six or so models covering the 1980s and 1990s, forming a second stage poll.
3. Assess demand for each model using this Forumís membership as a proxy for the wider market.

Beyond this we would need to do some real work to produce a business case, if there is one.

When I am back in the UK in a couple of weeks Iíll set the ball rolling, if there is support for the idea. Having said that, I am quite happy to leave it to anyone who is committed to making something happen to take the idea forward.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 06:26:16 AM by woodbury22uk »
Mike

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Online Skyline2uk

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2020, 11:49:24 AM »
This seems to tie in with what I have been saying in this thread:

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=44665.msg557506#msg557506

And I support the idea, but sadly cannot offer much time to it.

Will happily complete any surveys etc

Skyline2uk

Online weave

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2020, 12:11:28 PM »
Hi woodbury,

Good idea and looking forward to the survey. Although I model France and Spain I'll be needing '80s/ '90s British cars for my Brittany ferry of that era.

Trying to think though, I only owned 2 cars at that time, one was a Peugeot and the other a Fiat  :doh:  :D. Will try and remember my mate's cars.

Good luck with the venture.

Cheers weave  :beers:


Offline Newportnobby

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2020, 12:31:18 PM »
Not an era I have much interest in/knowledge of but @woodbury22uk I'm happy to collate any votes in Excel and pass the results to whoever takes it forward, Mike.

Offline Calnefoxile

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2020, 12:36:54 PM »

@woodbury22uk  I'm in....

This is something I've been bleating on about for what seems eons.

Let me start the ball rolling with some suggestions:

Ford Sierra
Vauxhall Cavalier
Rover SD1
Mini Metro
Ford Escort
Vauxhall Chevette
Ford Cortina MK4 & 5

These are the ones I've just rattled off without even thinking about it. I'm sure there will be a myriad of others, but this is just a drop in the ocean of the 'British makes, I haven't even started to think about all the 'Foreign' makes from the likes of Renault, Peugeot, VW, BWM, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, Skoda etc etc.

Cheers

Neal.

Offline bluedepot

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2020, 12:57:50 PM »
good idea

did any non japanese cars get sold in any numbers in japan? as 1:150 is close to 1:148 and japan has right hand drive, maybe tomytec or another japanese manufacturer could be persuaded to make some. they could come with stick on number plates for uk or japan. combining the market for n gauge in the uk and japan would help the business case perhaps.


tim

Offline railsquid

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2020, 01:07:20 PM »
good idea

did any non japanese cars get sold in any numbers in japan? as 1:150 is close to 1:148 and japan has right hand drive, maybe tomytec or another japanese manufacturer could be persuaded to make some. they could come with stick on number plates for uk or japan. combining the market for n gauge in the uk and japan would help the business case perhaps.

There is a very small market for imported cars, mainly Volkswagen (from my observation), and some prestige vehicles. And a surprising amount of older Volvos for some reason. However Tomytec don't seem to have released much in the way of cars at all recently (though they keep pushing out buses and trucks, because collectors love 'em...).
Takahachikawa - Japanese and other trains

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Offline Chris Morris

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2020, 01:47:49 PM »
The 1980 Honda Ballade was the same as the Triumph Acclaim. The next gen Civic was the same as the first Rover 213/216 saloon.  Then the Rover 400 was very similar to a fourth generation civic while the next Rover 400 which became the Rover 45 was exactly the same body as the fifth gen Civic. So that's some Japanese cars that are dead ringers for British ones. Don't know whether any are available in Japan . The Honda versions were of course all on sale in the UK at the same time.
Working doesn't seem to be the perfect thing for me so I'll continue to play.
Steve Marriott / Ronnie Lane

Offline PLD

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2020, 01:51:06 PM »
A laudable aim, which I support, and so pleasing to see someone do more than winge; but a note of caution to bear in mind and learn lessons from the flaws and ultimately unsuccessful outcomes of the DJM proposal for crowd funding vehicles.

Why did it fail? Was it that what was offered wasn't clear, was it the price point, was it Dave himself, did it actually show the assumed demand wasn't really there in sufficient volume to be viable??

Offline jpendle

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2020, 02:36:23 PM »
I would jump straight in at stage 2 and suggest

Vauxhall Cavalier & Astra
Ford Sierra & Escort

Ask how many of each type people would buy, then give up when 200 members say they might buy 10 of each, as long as they cost less than a fiver.

I think your post is laudable but I suspect that the real market is very, very small.

I wouldn't be in as I would like more cars from this century, but I know that's just as unlikely.

We need to be realistic and accept that demand is small and that some non conventional production may be needed.

Maybe fund a set of 3D designs & then let purchasers figure out how to get what they want printed, but again that may put people off, myself included, as this now involves some modelling as opposed to buying RTR.

I agree it's a dilemma, but hopefully someone with a more creative brain than mine may be able to come up with a better answer!

Regards, and THANKS,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline bluedepot

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2020, 08:36:48 PM »
ah ok lets all lobby tomy or kato to make some volvos or vws then!

maybe oxford would go for a crowd funded or special commission of an escort or something they already make...???

i wonder if a real life shrink ray is in development???


tim

Offline woodbury22uk

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2020, 09:44:21 PM »
Pleased to read the positive response. I am likely to be off line for a couple of days. Will read more at the weekend.
Mike

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Wondering how many pedants can dance of the head of a pin.


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Offline Rabbitaway

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2020, 10:32:51 PM »
Can I make a suggestion

We have all seen these very poor quality generic cars produced in China, how about a selection of better quality generic cars, lets say 6 to 10 versions of cars and SUVs, could be an option for current cars as they tend to look very similar

Advantages

No license issue
CAD can be done easily
Contract produced in China
No concern about minor detail errors in finished cars
Four parts (wheels generic across all, base, glass and shell)
Fast turn around from design to production

These could be of the same quality of Tomytec but generic and could cost less than £2 each

Oxford currently do this with farm machinery



   
« Last Edit: January 23, 2020, 10:34:55 PM by Rabbitaway »

Offline red_death

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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2020, 11:00:20 PM »
Great idea Mike.

Google Forms are easy to create surveys and collate data into spreadsheets (which can be kept in Google Docs or exported to Excel).

Ford Sierra and Escort (Mk 3 or 4)
Vauxhall Astra and Cavalier

Thereís a website (which Iíve forgotten the web address of) which lists UK sales of cars by year - starting with the best sellers for say a 5 year period might be a good starting point.

Cheers Mike



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Re: British Built Cars 1980s -1990s
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2020, 11:07:05 PM »
Statista.com or smmt.com or both ring any bells ?

 

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