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Author Topic: stuttering 060 'jinty'  (Read 300 times)

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Offline sandyman

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stuttering 060 'jinty'
« on: January 21, 2020, 01:50:25 PM »
 :helpneededsign:
Hi all, can anybody help. My wife bought me a  Fowler class 3F 'Jinty 060 tank loco which was dcc ready, she also bought the dcc chip 36-556RA E-Z command 90* 6 Pin dcc decoder analogue compatible. The problem I have is that after running in on dc power as recomended first, using the number 10 function on the E-Z command which is for running analogue. I replaced the blanking plate with the dcc chip and changed the default No3 to 4, so far so good. the problem I have is that the following day the loco started running very jittery then after maybe 5 mins of gentle nudging it would run fine, this happens every time its left idle for some time. The other thing that bothers me, is that even when I get it running reasonably well it will not run in reverse at all well however long its been working. I am new to this so am at a loss as to what to do, I will say though, that I have used a mixture of peco setrack and flexitrack some new and some secondhand because I bought the 'Highlander' set to start with and the class 37 diesel runs perfect all over my layout.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2020, 03:05:34 PM »
Stuttering on these modern locos can often be down to the pickups - they use phosphor axle bearings to take power from the bosses on the individual wheels.

Cleaning this can help, and avoid oiling them at all costs.

Cheers,
Alan
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Offline lanessend

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2020, 04:50:36 PM »
You are not alone with this problem! I found it improves with running - lots and lots of it.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2020, 04:53:14 PM »
You are not alone with this problem! I found it improves with running - lots and lots of it.

This isn't the best solution - it's becoming evident that the motor life on modern models may not be that high - better to attack directly by cleaning out and improving pickup (running a lot is doing that through wear).

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline ntpntpntp

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2020, 05:40:50 PM »
:helpneededsign:
... running in on dc power as recomended first, using the number 10 function on the E-Z command which is for running analogue. el runs perfect all over my layout.

Oh dear - potentially bad move!!!  You should NOT run N gauge models on the EZ-Command's "address 10". It is a pseudo-DC achieved by bending the DCC signal in the track.  It is NOT plain DC, there is current flowing through the motor all the time it is on the track even when stationary. It can destroy some modern motors very rapidly.  ** Bachmann's own instructions for the EZ-Command says NOT to use this with N gauge locos!



The oft quoted advice about running-in a loco on DC means using a pure DC source, and is to ensure the loco is working correctly before you fit a decoder.  It's from the old days when most decoders had to be hard-wired.  With modern plug-n-play decoders, if all you've got is a DCC layout then run it in on DCC with the decoder fitted.


Now I'm not saying this is what's caused your problems, as has been mentioned it is most likely a cleanliness/pickup issue.


« Last Edit: January 21, 2020, 06:16:54 PM by ntpntpntp »
Nick.   2016 celebrating the 20th anniversary of "Königshafen" exhibition layout!

Offline sandyman

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #5 on: January 21, 2020, 07:37:16 PM »

Thanks for all the advice, I'm hoping haven't done any irreparable damage and that it's something simple to rectify, I did notice that power was applied in dc mode like was said so as soon as it had the required amount of running in time I would cut the power supply. However after a couple of frustrating days I decided to see what it run like by removing the dcc chip and reverting back to dc. I only ran it for a couple of minutes to see how it would perform and it ran in either direction with no issues. However, this is not as you say, compatible because of the damage which can be caused so I put the dcc chip back in. :thankyousign:

Offline Izzy

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2020, 08:16:22 PM »

 These locos have coreless can motors so are less tolerant of the current supplied than 'ordinary' motors if I can phrase it that way. They will 'jitter' there way along the track if subjected to too strong BEMF.
You may find that a decoder with better motor control such as a Zimo will give a better performance.

However, with my sample of these locos I found it difficult to get decent performance whatever decoder i fitted - I just could not stop the 'jittering' - until I removed the PCB and hard-wired in a decoder. Then it was a different loco.

Izzy

Offline Railwaygun

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2020, 08:32:19 PM »
90' DCC chips are rare - there is a thread here

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=44468.msg554604#msg554604

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=33788.0

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=30778.msg358316#msg358316

https://www.lemkecollection.de/de/Uebersicht/Spur-N/Kuehn-N025-6-Pin-Winkel-Digitaldecoder-alle-HT-N-V20/V36

should keep you busy for a while!

bsically you bend the pins on a Zimo or buy a german chip ( and unfortunately a better DCC controller ( and buy a small DC one for emergencies)

NickR
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Offline lanessend

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Re: stuttering 060 'jinty'
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2020, 10:19:34 PM »
After sitting idle for a few days, mine started stuttering badly again. So I decided I would really have to try and clean the contacts as per the forum advice. I took the base plate off and it was covered with oil (the engine was bought new and I certainly haven't oiled it). Reaching for a brush and some meths, I knocked the table, the loco rolled over and the wheel set fell out. While I could see the cog on the axle, I could not see anything in the chassis to drive it so with heart in mouth I search on the floor all round the table. Nothing.

I gave the bearings a good flush and soft brushing then reassembled the loco not expecting to work because of some unknown missing piece. I placed it on the track. It juddered and stopped. I lifted it slightly and the wheels started rotating again. I did this for a second or two longer then settled it properly onto the tracks. After a few judders it then started running perfectly. It still judders a bit on initial starting after being idle for a day (so do my knees) but it runs smoothly and very slowly and is now very much the engine I want it to be. So thanks for all the advice and the learning experience.

 

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