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Author Topic: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............  (Read 592 times)

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Offline Newportnobby

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I model transition era in the UK and am putting together an engineers train using available RTR stock and have:
Triple pack Sturgeons with side doors in black livery
DJM Mermaids x 4 in black livery
Dapol 21T hoppers
Dapol Dogfish rusty
Peco NR44B Butterley minerals
Farish 377-227A minerals
Various brake vans

My knowledge of freight train formations is minimal so I'd appreciate any suggestions as to what to use from the above list and where in the formation they might appear please

Edit:- I can also throw into the mix some Farish 373-926 bogie bolsters

Online crewearpley40

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2020, 04:14:27 PM »
mick from my point of view :


putting together an engineers train using available RTR stock
with that Triple pack Sturgeons with side doors in black livery would look good stand alone.


DJM Mermaids x 4 in black livery
Dapol 21T hoppers
Dapol Dogfish rusty

would work together with a standard brake van or a shark brake


Peco NR44B Butterley minerals
Farish 377-227A minerals
brake van would need to be attached as vacuum brake only

helps chris

Offline Steven B

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2020, 04:55:43 PM »
Chris' suggestions follow my own thinking, with one exception:

The Dapol 21t hoppers should be added to the coal train, or run by themselves, of within a general freight train. They weren't used in engineers trains; BR did cut some down in the 1980s for use as ballast wagons but this is well outside the transition era.

The train with Dogfish and Mermaids should have a brakevan fitted with a vacuum pipe. These two wagons were all fitted with automatic vacuum brakes. Doing so would allow the train to run at higher speeds as they'd be fully braked.

The coal wagons only had hand-brakes and so a grey coloured brake van would be most likely.

You'd have to check the Sturgeons to see if they were the unbraked or vacuum braked version. I suspect they're unbraked and again a grey coloured brake van should be used.

Steven B.

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2020, 05:00:04 PM »
Steven. With modellers licence the 21t wagons could be used, but i was too thinking along the same lines.

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #4 on: January 09, 2020, 07:37:11 PM »
Thanks for the info so far, Chaps. I'm looking for something to run with the Sturgeons. The 21T hoppers I can run as a block train, likewise the Butterleys and likewise the Dogfish/Mermaids.
For some reason I thought the Mermaids might run with the Sturgeons but it seems not.
I've added some bogie bolsters into the mix - see the Edit of my OP.

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2020, 07:46:24 PM »
Have you received yours Mick or just in anticipation??

My order from Finetracks has been dispatched today so I'm looking forward to ruining some lovely code 40 to load mine up.

We have a photo of a Bulleid Pacific hauling 6 sturgeons fully loaded complete with a shark brake van at either end!!!

Luckily Mike was able to confirm that these were doorless sturgeons and obliged in selling me 2 triple packs in the correct black scheme.

SO as far as my very limited knowledge goes my 6 fully loaded complete with 2 shark brakes is the complete rake and ran with nothing else. Not very helpful I grant you but.....   

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #6 on: January 09, 2020, 07:50:44 PM »
Purely anticipation as the balance was only settled just recently, Craig.
My triple pack all have side doors so would not carry rail (I assume). Maybe the bolsters could run with them? :hmmm:

Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #7 on: January 09, 2020, 07:53:12 PM »
I dont see why not, but that's what happens when you dont know much!!!

What did the ones with doors on carry?????

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #8 on: January 09, 2020, 07:58:12 PM »
I dont see why not, but that's what happens when you dont know much!!!

What did the ones with doors on carry?????

Maybe ignorance really is bliss then and I could get away with it :D

I believe the ones with doors carried all the associated paraphernalia for track lengths such as sleepers, chairs (no, not the sitting down variety), tools etc

Offline DCCDave

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #9 on: January 09, 2020, 08:22:21 PM »
I believe the ones with doors carried all the associated paraphernalia for track lengths such as sleepers, chairs (no, not the sitting down variety), tools etc

 I think that's right on the way to the job, I think they carried old lengths of track, old sleepers and chairs that couldn't be reused, old ballast and spoil. Basically most stuff to clear the work site.

Cheers
Dave

Offline Invicta Alec

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2020, 09:17:58 PM »

Maybe ignorance really is bliss then and I could get away with it :D


Although my layout is a "Rule One applies" job, I don't set out to deliberately make mistakes.

I am all too aware that virtually none of the cars and lorries on my layout are anywhere near the intended period. (Note to Oxford Diecast : make some 1980s cars please). It irritates me every time I spot my little XF Jaguar and the Ford Mk3 Cortina sitting close together.

Now as far as my one and only freight train is concerned, I don't have the slightest clue which of my classes 22, 52 and 66 locomotives legitimately could have pulled my rag bag of 8 wagons. I don't care either, it looks good to me! So yes Mick - ignorance is bliss!

Alec.
You can't beat a nice drop of Southern.




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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2020, 10:52:22 PM »
Mick. Google br bogie bolster wagons and br salmon and sturgeon wagons
 The best research is on ltsv.com there plus photos on paul bartletts site.

Offline red_death

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2020, 11:55:08 PM »
The Sturgeons without doors are the same as the ones with doors - they were all built with doors - but the doors were removable and taken off as necessary. The doors were supposed to be racked under the wagon but a lot were lost. Same with the removable end pieces.

Cheers Mike



Offline exmouthcraig

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2020, 12:44:16 PM »
@Newportnobby afternoon Mick and the collective, further to bits and pieces from this thread I have put 4x 60ft code 40 track panels ontop of a Bogie Bolster C just for viewing purposes!! 4 in height is the same as coach gutter height so for loading gauge purposes youd probably struggle to get more!! Theu would obviously have to be shorter and securing them in a realistic looking way might also be awkward.

However I did find this last night https://youtu.be/DApsDO_77_w
 a couple of shots of sturgeons but from my limited knowledge I think the 600ft rails are on Bogie Bosters ????

So maybe a few of them together with a bundle of code 40 rails with the sleepers and chairs in the doored sturgeons



« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 12:51:40 PM by exmouthcraig »

Offline Newportnobby

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Re: Another train formation question to'The Collective'.............
« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2020, 12:48:00 PM »
@exmouthcraig
Thanks for that, Craig. I do think, however, any type of wagon would sag in the middle carrying 600ft lengths of rail ;)
I reckon your last sentence will be what I end up doing.

 

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