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Author Topic: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)  (Read 3528 times)

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Offline mk1gtstu

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Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #15 on: December 08, 2019, 11:25:01 AM »
This chappie might help you a bit..........

https://www.brian-lambert.co.uk

Thank you Mick  :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:50:53 PM by mk1gtstu »
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline LASteve

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Re: Possible new layout (As yet un-named)
« Reply #16 on: December 08, 2019, 02:45:56 PM »
Hi Stu

I was new to DCC a couple of years ago (actually, new to modelling since my Hornby train set years and years ago, so a genuine rookie). A few things I learned, some already said:

I used the NCE Powercab system - it was readily available here in the US and it took me very little time and effort to get started with it. If you're running on a 4x2 layout, it's highly unlikely you'll need the Smartbooster, you're just not going to be running enough locos simultaneously. Don't go too simple with the controller, e.g. the E-Z Command. You can't read or program CV's with that controller, and although CV programming might seem outside your skill level right now, you'll find at some point you'll need to read and write CV's, so you don't want to be whistling in the wind when the time comes.

I wired the frogs on all my points even though I was a novice and I'm glad I did. Unifrog was just being introduced when I started building, so I've got a mixture of Uni- and electrofrogs. I don't have any preference one way or the other, although as has been pointed out (no pun intended!), you don't need insulated rail joiners with Unifrog. They are only available in medium turnout spec at the moment (the electrofrogs more medium-radius are discontinued), so depending on your plan you might end up with a mixture as well.

You do NOT need to modify the points in any way, shape or form. This is a misconception that keeps cropping up - the PECO HO/OO points are wired differently and the "how to" page on their website refers specifically to that gauge.

I use Cobalt IP point motors. They aren't cheap, but they are a snap to program and they have a built-in polarity reversingl feed so you don't need to worry about adding frog juicers. Take your time mounting them, especially centering the throw wire correctly. If you do use them, when you're planning, note that they will project three inches below the bottom of the board so make sure you've got clearance underneath.

Solder droppers to every piece of track, don't rely on continuity provided by the joiners. This might sound like overkill, but there's nothing more frustrating than running a layout where you've cut corners on the basics and you've got reliability issues, it takes all the fun out of it. The same goes for being painstaking with making sure the track connections and alignment are spot-on, if you think that 1mm in N gauge is over six inches in the real world, you can see that small misalignments can cause big problems running your trains. Make double-sure that your track is seated properly in the joiners.

I'm just starting out on a new layout, and one of the reasons was corner-cutting on the build of the last one, including alignment and continuity issues so don't fall into that trap.

Keep us posted!


Offline mk1gtstu

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Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2019, 03:09:54 PM »
Hi Stu

I was new to DCC a couple of years ago (actually, new to modelling since my Hornby train set years and years ago, so a genuine rookie). A few things I learned, some already said:

I used the NCE Powercab system - it was readily available here in the US and it took me very little time and effort to get started with it. If you're running on a 4x2 layout, it's highly unlikely you'll need the Smartbooster, you're just not going to be running enough locos simultaneously. Don't go too simple with the controller, e.g. the E-Z Command. You can't read or program CV's with that controller, and although CV programming might seem outside your skill level right now, you'll find at some point you'll need to read and write CV's, so you don't want to be whistling in the wind when the time comes.

I wired the frogs on all my points even though I was a novice and I'm glad I did. Unifrog was just being introduced when I started building, so I've got a mixture of Uni- and electrofrogs. I don't have any preference one way or the other, although as has been pointed out (no pun intended!), you don't need insulated rail joiners with Unifrog. They are only available in medium turnout spec at the moment (the electrofrogs more medium-radius are discontinued), so depending on your plan you might end up with a mixture as well.

You do NOT need to modify the points in any way, shape or form. This is a misconception that keeps cropping up - the PECO HO/OO points are wired differently and the "how to" page on their website refers specifically to that gauge.

I use Cobalt IP point motors. They aren't cheap, but they are a snap to program and they have a built-in polarity reversingl feed so you don't need to worry about adding frog juicers. Take your time mounting them, especially centering the throw wire correctly. If you do use them, when you're planning, note that they will project three inches below the bottom of the board so make sure you've got clearance underneath.

Solder droppers to every piece of track, don't rely on continuity provided by the joiners. This might sound like overkill, but there's nothing more frustrating than running a layout where you've cut corners on the basics and you've got reliability issues, it takes all the fun out of it. The same goes for being painstaking with making sure the track connections and alignment are spot-on, if you think that 1mm in N gauge is over six inches in the real world, you can see that small misalignments can cause big problems running your trains. Make double-sure that your track is seated properly in the joiners.

I'm just starting out on a new layout, and one of the reasons was corner-cutting on the build of the last one, including alignment and continuity issues so don't fall into that trap.

Keep us posted!

Thank you for that Steve, some useful information  :thumbsup:

 Cheers, Stu
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:50:29 PM by mk1gtstu »
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline mk1gtstu

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Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #18 on: December 08, 2019, 03:11:48 PM »
Daft question time regarding point motors & points, are they needed running with DCC or can points be operated the old way, by hand or tube & wire etc without point motors?

Cheers, Stu
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:50:07 PM by mk1gtstu »
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline jpendle

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Re: Possible new layout (As yet un-named)
« Reply #19 on: December 08, 2019, 03:37:55 PM »
There is absolutely no need to run points with motors even with DCC controlled locos.

You can use wire in tube, hand of god, all the way up to computer control.

The only thing to be aware of is that relying on point blade contact to provide appropriate power to the frogs may be an issue.

Because of this it is good practice to wire a dropper to any point frog, in this way you can always add supplementary switching even if you start out by relying on blade contact. None of this has anything to do with DCC, it's good practice with DC as well.

Regards,

John P
Check out my layout thread.

Contemporary NW (Wigan Wallgate and North Western)

https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39501.msg476247#msg476247

Offline mk1gtstu

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Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #20 on: December 08, 2019, 04:36:57 PM »
There is absolutely no need to run points with motors even with DCC controlled locos.

You can use wire in tube, hand of god, all the way up to computer control.

The only thing to be aware of is that relying on point blade contact to provide appropriate power to the frogs may be an issue.

Because of this it is good practice to wire a dropper to any point frog, in this way you can always add supplementary switching even if you start out by relying on blade contact. None of this has anything to do with DCC, it's good practice with DC as well.

Regards,

John P

Ok, thank you, that's good to know. I'm starting to confuse myself reading up on all the different controllers, point motors & jargon for different things  :goggleeyes:

Cheers, Stu
« Last Edit: December 15, 2019, 08:49:27 PM by mk1gtstu »
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline mk1gtstu

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #21 on: December 15, 2019, 08:46:18 PM »
Hi all  :wave:
Well I've now officially started the new layout build  :claphappy:

I've also given it the fictitious name of Abercwm Colliery, loosely based on the real collieries at Maerdy, Coedely, & various other collieries around the South Wales Valleys in the 60's, 70's & 80's era.
 I've decided on a fictitious colliery rather than a real location as I think it will be easier to cram into a 4x2 baseboard elements of various real places rather than try and accurately model somewhere in such a small space.

It will be a similar layout to my colliery boxfile layout, but I will have the added advantage of a bit more space to play around with & it will be a more permanent layout. Also (hopefully!) it will have better running than the old code 80 & insulfrog points set up & I also hope I can improve on the scenery side of things but still have the atmosphere the little boxfile layout has.

Progress so far is the building of the new baseboard.




Next job will be trying to sort out a track plan. I have a rough idea in my head of how I would like it to look, but the challenge will be how to fit it all in so it looks right.

Well that's all the updates for now,

Cheers, Stu
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Online Newportnobby

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #22 on: December 15, 2019, 09:39:22 PM »
Sensible move in not fitting any further bracing until you have the track plan and know where the points will be. It's something oft forgotten about.

Offline LASteve

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2019, 06:12:11 AM »
Sensible move in not fitting any further bracing until you have the track plan and know where the points will be. It's something oft forgotten about.

Amen to that. It seems so simple in hindsight, but I've been caught chopping bits out of framing. Plan, look, then look again. There is the adage "measure twice, cut once", but I think there should be another one for this situation, more along the "look five times" route.

Good luck with the build - keep us posted! It's going to be a great project.

Offline mk1gtstu

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2019, 08:49:18 PM »
A little bit of progress on the new layout. A load of new points & flexitrack I had ordered arrived so did a bit of a rough trial run to see how everything is going to fit.


My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline mk1gtstu

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2019, 08:54:05 PM »
A few sheets of 1 inch thick polystyrene cut & glued in place, this will raise the track level & allow the river I want to have through the layout to hopefully look more realistic






That's it for now,

Cheers, Stu
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline chrispearce

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2019, 05:27:04 AM »
Very nice tidy baseboard and polystyrene work.

Looking forward to this. If it's going to be a developed version of the boxfile layout it will be superb. :thumbsup:
Some situations in life are like dairy cows. When you see 'em you just gotta milk 'em.

Offline mk1gtstu

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2019, 04:11:06 PM »
A bit more progress made, soldering droppers onto track which seems a never ending job! A bit of a test to see where points & trackwork is going to go.


Also glued down the cork sheeting for the track bed




And also put the main track power bus in place underneath the baseboard




I've made a start on track laying today, but no more photos as yet...that will keep me busy over Christmas

Cheers, Stu
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Offline mk1gtstu

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #28 on: December 26, 2019, 03:26:37 PM »
Hi all, another update on the new layout. Made a bit of progress on the track laying. I'm using the small electrofrog points throughout the layout due to space restrictions, the sidings will be a little shorter than I'd like but it's something I'll have to live with as it's only a 4x2 layout.



I think I've got all the electrical side of things sussed out (where to put IRJ's etc) for a DCC set up. It's taking a lot more time tracklaying though having power feeds on almost every piece of track but hopefully the results will be worthwhile



I'm trying to keep all the track circuit wiring as neat as I can on this one & hopefully it won't end up looking like a rats nest under there  ;D

That's all for the time being....

Cheers, Stu
My Box File Layout (South Wales Valleys Colliery) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=10430.0

Porthkerry (A South Wales layout in BR Blue) http://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=39654.0
 
Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area) https://www.ngaugeforum.co.uk/SMFN/index.php?topic=47521.0

Online exmouthcraig

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Re: Abercwm Colliery (South Wales Area)
« Reply #29 on: December 26, 2019, 04:08:48 PM »
 :claphappy: looking good @mk1gtstu

Just 1 thing me old fruit.......dont forget your heat shrink on the wire joins.

The zip tie blocks are a fantastic thing to have, mine all run in those and i too was desperate to get the wiring as flat and straight as if it were track!

Nice job  :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: December 26, 2019, 04:28:12 PM by exmouthcraig »

 

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