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Author Topic: How important is loco haulage to you?  (Read 779 times)

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Offline NeMo

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2019, 02:06:06 PM »
What control are you running, NeMo?

Gaugemaster twin-track DS (the one with the pretend "brake" feature). So nothing fancy or unusual. No feedback. No DCC.

I'm not sure I've ever seen the lights go, but just notice two nights ago that the lights on my Dapol D6300 didn't work. You can see the LEDs sort of flicker at full speed if you take the body off.

Alongside that one, there's a Class 27 and at least one 'Western'. Thus far, none of the Farish locos have lost their lights. We can take this off to PMs if you want, but I'd be happy enough to have them looked at some time!

Right now I'm working on getting an old Farish 50 working again. It was running slowly today when I tested it out, and after an hour of gentle running (half speed, Kato controller) after cleaning the wheels, it just 'stopped'. Removed motor and it still spins, so guessing something to do with the wiring or contacts.

Today is turning out to be a train-fixing sort of day!

Cheers, NeMo
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Offline Newportnobby

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2019, 04:34:48 PM »

I must admit that prototypical haulage (within reason) has never been a factor for me when choosing a loco, mainly because I have always had smallish layouts and I dont run completely prototypical trains.

I think that's the nub of it for me. I have an 8ft a 4ft flat layout with a scenic stretch of, say, 12ft. Any train too long just looks ridiculous as the loco runs into a tunnel while the end coach/wagon is just emerging from the previous tunnel mouth. The longest freight train for me would be about 30 x 4 wheeled and the longest passenger train maybe up to 10 coaches. The only loco I really have an issue with is (surprise, surprise) the Dapol 9Fs which, to be honest, I wish Farish had continued with. My 45xx tank is disappointing but still looks fine with a couple of coaches or a pick up goods. I won't be getting a Garratt as it's simply too big for the layout, especially with anything like a prototypical rake behind it. Time was I would have stuck with 'a train should not exceed a third of the scenic length' but that has long gone.

Offline Bingley Hall

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2019, 05:35:10 PM »
As a general rule it's not something I worry too much about - though I have a few Life-Like and Bachmann US outline steamers I've never given a real run, but have heard worrying things about as far as their haulage capacity is concerned. Luckily I picked them at at very good prices, but I wouldn't have wanted to pay top dollar for them based on reputation. If any one is wondering it's the LL 2-8-4 and 2-8-8-2 Mallet and Bachmann USRA Light 4-8-2. I believe the second run of the Mallets were better.

Interestingly I have been testing quite a bit of my fleet, much of which has been sitting in boxes for anything from 3-10 years. I had my Dapol 22 running around 9" curves with 6 milk tanks and a Stove R without any problems. When I swapped the milk tanks for 6 x Revolution B tankers the 22 started to struggle and stall.  I have an early Chinese Farish Pannier which I needed to test prior to a sale - ran away with the 6 x B tankers.   

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2019, 05:47:31 PM »
Gaugemaster twin-track DS (the one with the pretend "brake" feature). So nothing fancy or unusual. No feedback. No DCC.

At some point I'll need to try and get the outputs of Gaugemasters on a scope to see if they differ. I suspect there might be a possibility they do, but I agree that these should be clean signals that don't cause burn outs.

I'm not sure I've ever seen the lights go, but just notice two nights ago that the lights on my Dapol D6300 didn't work. You can see the LEDs sort of flicker at full speed if you take the body off.

Alongside that one, there's a Class 27 and at least one 'Western'. Thus far, none of the Farish locos have lost their lights. We can take this off to PMs if you want, but I'd be happy enough to have them looked at some time!

The BAT54Cs are in the red lighting circuit, but I've seen them affect reds alone, reds and whites at one end, or various combinations. It's not guaranteed that is the sole cause, but it's common. They are only rated to 200mA, ~0.8V, which should be enough for the LEDs, but I suspect they are therefore very prone to even the slightest spike cause by a derailment or short (e.g. a wheel back touching an opposite point blade). Feel free to drop me a PM on them.

Right now I'm working on getting an old Farish 50 working again. It was running slowly today when I tested it out, and after an hour of gentle running (half speed, Kato controller) after cleaning the wheels, it just 'stopped'. Removed motor and it still spins, so guessing something to do with the wiring or contacts.

Oh, when running slowly, don't persist for too long in running it - if something is stiff, jamming or the likes it can put a lot of strain on the motor. If a split chassis model, clean out the commutator - they commonly clog up and cause a partial short that gives slow, high current draw running. Clean out any gunk and old lubricant from the bogies too to reduce frictional drag - less is more for lubrication on these.

HTH,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline NeMo

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2019, 07:09:08 PM »
Oh, when running slowly, don't persist for too long in running it - if something is stiff, jamming or the likes it can put a lot of strain on the motor. If a split chassis model, clean out the commutator - they commonly clog up and cause a partial short that gives slow, high current draw running. Clean out any gunk and old lubricant from the bogies too to reduce frictional drag - less is more for lubrication on these.

Yep, that's pretty much what I did. There was some fluff in there, and some oil, and the little brass contacts on the motor weren't touching the metal chassis properly. It's working much better now, and by the sounds of it, my 4-year-old has just upped the voltage so it's racing at a scale 200 mph! Might need to go rescue it.

Incidentally, according to my multimeter, the Kato controller is pushing out around 16 V DC, which is a lot more than I expected.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2019, 07:11:31 PM »
Incidentally, according to my multimeter, the Kato controller is pushing out around 16 V DC, which is a lot more than I expected.

While you've got the meter out, measure the current draw of the loco - if it's healthy it should be 100-120mA.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline NeMo

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2019, 07:41:57 PM »
While you've got the meter out, measure the current draw of the loco - if it's healthy it should be 100-120mA.

Around 0.10 A, rising momentarily to about 0.12 A when accelerating to top speed, before settling back down to 0.10 A again.

So seems happy enough. Not exactly silent, but I can't remember how noisy these old Farish models actually are.

Cheers, NeMo
NGS Journal Editor

Offline Izzy

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2019, 07:43:30 PM »
 Interesting that the Farish 66's seem to have better haulage than the Dapol ones. I have one of the latter which only drives off the outer axles of the bogies. I presume the Farish drive all axles as per most of their Co-Co diesels and I just wonder if that might explain the difference, 33% more traction/rail grip.

Must admit to being bemused by the difference between my Dapol 156 DMU and Farish 101/108's. On the flat they all run quite okay. But show the 156 any kind of incline and it will just sit there spinning it's wheels even though both bogies are driven and without the trailer, while the single bogie drive Farish will just romp up anything until the steepness gets silly to look at and drag quite a few coaches along with them besides their trailers.

Izzy

Online njee20

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2019, 10:19:26 PM »
The Farish 66s are markedly heavier than Dapol. The extra driven axles wont hurt though for sure! Its a pretty linear relationship between weight and haulage for diesels. Obviously steam locos get more complex due to distribution of the weight in relation to the driven wheels.

Offline stevewalker

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #54 on: August 15, 2019, 12:00:33 AM »
Incidentally, according to my multimeter, the Kato controller is pushing out around 16 V DC, which is a lot more than I expected.

Cheers, NeMo

Are you measuring the voltage with or without a loco running? The output without a load will be considerably higher than when loaded, so you really need to test with a loco running.

Online Rabbitaway

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #55 on: August 15, 2019, 12:44:52 AM »
With regard to the Dapol 66 there are two versions of the lighter weight DCC ready chassis,  one with wide and deep flange wheels and the other later release with fine wheels. The latter has noticeable weaker haulage ability.

Online njee20

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #56 on: August 15, 2019, 09:46:43 AM »
That's interesting, I'll have to look more closely at that, I've found among my Dapol ones it's random (but I admit I've never looked at which chassis arrangement they've got. I'd only noticed that lights have changed). The best one I've got is 66111 in weathered EWS, which I think is a fairly old release, but I've also got one of the "Patriot" Powerhaul ones which is also good. Others, including an early Freightliner one are noticeably worse.

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #57 on: August 15, 2019, 09:48:57 AM »
The best one I've got is 66111 in weathered EWS,

This release has a later style chassis. The early ones also did not have a DCC socket.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. Dr. Carl Sagan

Online njee20

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #58 on: August 15, 2019, 09:50:37 AM »
The best one I've got is 66111 in weathered EWS,

This release has a later style chassis. The early ones also did not have a DCC socket.

I know that, and those were great runners (if a swine to convert to DCC), but Rabbitaway said there are two types of DCC-ready chassis, the earlier ones being better.

Online Dr Al

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Re: How important is loco haulage to you?
« Reply #59 on: August 15, 2019, 09:56:11 AM »
I know that, and those were great runners (if a swine to convert to DCC)

They probably have good haulage, though they suffer a number of other problems (noisy as heck, and stiff stiff gearing, wobbly wheels) meaning I've seen a good number requiring significant attention.

I've never owned an all/mainly plastic chassied 66, but the similar 73 was pretty dire.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces. Dr. Carl Sagan

 

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