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Author Topic: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19 re IP ( Intellectual Property)  (Read 2804 times)

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Online Bealman

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2019, 11:28:14 AM »
I have no financial interest here, I'm not buying any current or advertised products.

But let's stop stuffing around!

Is this business able to supply to demand?
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Offline DCCDave

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2019, 01:31:37 PM »
I have no financial interest here, I'm not buying any current or advertised products.

But let's stop stuffing around!

Is this business able to supply to demand?

Apparently not. Compare DJMs performance with that of RevolutioN, one promises while the other ships. I've cancelled all orders I've placed for DJM products as I have zero confidence they'll get delivered. I accused Dave of advertising vaporware a year ago, and got royally slated on RMWeb for my opinion. It hasn't changed one iota.

Cheers
Dave

Online silly moo

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2019, 01:37:27 PM »
I expressed interest in a J94 but that was so long ago, Iíve given up hope of ever seeing one. I have a very limited budget and canít afford to speculate on locos which may never appear.

Itís a pity but I will only pre order from companies which have a proven track record. Even then it still seems to take an age for anything to actually appear in the flesh. N gauge modellers need a lot of patience.

Online Karhedron

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2019, 02:32:56 PM »
Looks like Dave didn't anticpate the reaction that this would stir up and has issued a clarification.

https://djmodels.co.uk/clarification

It looks like my initial hunch was right that this move is intended to stop people stealing an (re)using his CADs or Toolings. I think that his choice of language made the original announcement seem rather more sweeping than that.
Well, that's just not good enough. Some fount of all knowledge you are!  :no:  ;)

Online Newportnobby

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2019, 02:44:35 PM »
Thanks for posting that, Matt. It does seem to remove some of the 'fog'

Offline emjaybee

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2019, 02:53:48 PM »
Well, I can't help feeling that if he'd just said "I've taken legal steps to prevent anyone using the tooling I've designed", we'd be a hell of a lot further forward.

I still can't help thinking that his energies would be better spent progressing some of the projects, rather than the original ramblings.

 :hmmm:
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Offline acko22

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2019, 05:02:52 PM »
It's good to see some clarification today! Although is it a case of back peddling because of the backlash that it has received on multiple forums or is it just a very poorly worded announcement which still raised a lot more questions than it answered? Plus it gone from badly judged to now just a debacle of his own making!

While it may have cleared up the whole IP issue, a lot of his opening commentary was aimed at other businesses in the modelling world blaming them for issues only appears to be having! So if they are the cause to all his woes and he can prove it why doesn't he come out with it, if he has the proof good enough to stand up in court then he has no worries going to court and actually could make money out of it!

So to go in order (using quotes from his announcement)

1)"been blamed for errors on models instigated and insisted on by the clients"
2)"Iíve had customers find my factory and go to it behind my back and approached them directly"
3)" I have lost further funds on CAD/CAM development that was paid for up front but never delivered"

All this needs answering and properly as this leaves a lot of holes in his stories of woe, hand hardship, and struggle, been honest about it all may one of his last saving graces, as I know the list of people who are not going to hand over any cash is growing and spiked over the last 24 hours!

He cries wolf but honestly if you wanted an example of it been self inflicted you only have to roll back over the last 24 hours!
« Last Edit: May 03, 2019, 02:56:04 PM by acko22 »

Online Chris Morris

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #52 on: May 03, 2019, 08:04:21 AM »
Chinese manufacturers are hard to deal with and British N gauge volumes are so small that they are not very important to these manufacturers. Dealing with them will always be difficult and they will have the upper hand. 

Apologies as I didn't want to get involved with another manufacturer's thread but this deserves a reply as it is a crucial point for all of us - while there are bad eggs in all areas, our experience is the opposite of what you describe ie that the Chinese are not difficult to deal with. They are very professional. We're working with quite a few different factories now and our experience is that they take great pride in their work and and do what they say they will.

Cheers Mike

Maybe I should have said "if you don't understand Chinese culture and Chinese rules the Chinese are difficult to deal with" which would have been more accurate. One of the problems that crops up with lots of Chinese manufacturing is the issue of tool ownership. A Western company will pay for and own tooling at a supplier, certainly in Europe, and the tool owner will be able to remove their tooling from one factory and place it in another without problem. In China the ownership, ability to move tooling and right to use tooling is certainly different. Moving tooling that you have paid for, even if the factory no longer wants to do your work, is at the very best a long, slow process. I would imagine that the Revolution folks will have found out about Chinese culture and how the Chinese work and behaved accordingly which will have led to the right results. I wasn't inferring that the Chinese were a problem as such, just that you have to understand the culture and practices which are very different to Western culture and practices.

An example I learned back in the 1980s albeit from Japanese. They would not want to insult us by saying no to something so they always said yes. Yes in this case meant yes I understand what you are saying but not yes I agree with you and will go and do it. We soon learned how to ask for things in the correct manner and how to have a conversation that told us what they really thought. The point is you have to understand and adapt your approach to make it compatible with the culture you are dealing with. Like wise you have to make sure any business from a different culture understands your culture. This can give rise to some fascinating observations and learning. I think a lot of Western people have just blundered on without respecting other cultures and hit the rocks.

Offline RednBlue

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #53 on: June 12, 2019, 09:59:41 AM »
Looks like this was a sign of things to come. Website says DJM have gone into areceivership. I had only expressed interest in the mogul so no potential loss for me, but I guess anyone who has paid for preorders may be impacted. Always a pity to see potential reduction in the choice of suppliers

Offline Doc Pye

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #54 on: June 12, 2019, 11:39:38 AM »
So I clicked on 'unread posts' and found this one...

I will be blunt. The statement given by Dave - who I do not know - is not only meandering and lacking legal basis but comes across as threatening and demeaning to customers and potential customers. I would never do business with a company operating like this.

In regards to IP, as others have stated, the owner of the IP is the original train designer, not someone making a model of it. Any suggestion otherwise lacks basic common logic. That said, the only IP one has is over the actual product made. Yet, even this is meaningless as the goods are apparently made in China where 'IP' laws are a complete joke. I have seen so many Western firms get their products ripped off and sold elsewhere, and with no real legal recourse (try suing a Chinese firm in China!).

So to sum up, if you do business with this firm after reading all of this then you accept all the risks involved. Good luck!


Offline emjaybee

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #55 on: June 12, 2019, 11:56:13 AM »
With the utmost respect to the last two posters, this subject has to comprehensively and exhaustively done over the last two weeks. It's resulted in threads being locked, so I don't think we need to go over the same ground again.

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Offline RednBlue

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #56 on: June 12, 2019, 12:51:20 PM »
Apologies still finding my way around the forums and missed the discussion under the crowd funding section

Online Newportnobby

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Re: DJ Models Announcement 1.5.19
« Reply #57 on: June 12, 2019, 02:32:16 PM »
@RednBlue
No problem. This thread is purely about the statement from DJM regarding I.P (intellectual property if I recall correctly) rather than the receivership issue discussed elsewhere.

 

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