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Author Topic: island platforms and signals  (Read 2946 times)

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Offline bluedepot

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island platforms and signals
« on: March 06, 2012, 07:20:09 PM »
are there any special rules regarding signalling at island platforms????

if you have a signal to the left of the running line, so therefore also to the left of the island platform, would you normally have a repeater or something on the platform itself (so to the right of the running line)? or is it more normal to have the signal only on the platform (to the right of the running line...?)


cheers


tim

 

Offline tadpole

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2012, 07:25:05 PM »
In my experience they're usually at the platform end, so yes, they'll be to the right of one of the tracks.
This also means that station staff waving the train away can see the signal.

Although preferable to have the signal to the left, there are exceptions, sometimes not only are they on the right, but on the right of the other, right hand track (which carries trains in the opposite direction) to aid visibility on left-hand curves in cuttings or at tunnel exits.
Two rails good. Three better.

Offline point blank

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2012, 08:57:15 PM »
Normal signalling practice wherever possible is for the signal to be positioned on the left hand side, if this is not possible then under certain circumstances the signal will be positioned on the right. To assist dispatch staff an 'OFF' indicator may be provided on the plaform itself if the signal is not visible.

Offline bluedepot

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2012, 09:41:16 PM »
cheers for the fast replies!

yes most island platforms i've seen have the signals on the platform (so to the right of the running lines)... i guess this is easier to maintain them, easier for the station staff.... and maybe safer as the driver is watching the platform as they pull in rather then looking out to the left at the signal?

yes i wondered about the 'off' indicator... i am modelling an un-staffed island platform station that is only served by dmus. i don't think it would have an 'off indicator' on such a small station?

the track ahead is straight.

anyway i have put the signal to the left of the track for now. the dmu would have a guard, so the guard can signal to the driver to depart when the platform is clear / doors shut, and then the driver can look at the signal out the cab to ahead slightly to the left and then proceed if it's green or yellow...

anyway, do you think that sounds ok?

in the other direction there is no signal, it's too close to the proceding signal (about 2 metres before the station in 1:1 scale...) and i didn't think it needed another one so soon. the train can just stop then set off again...

another question, if you put a signal on a platform then you need to chop the pole a bit to make it shorter i take it?

sorry for the novice questions i am new to building model railways... 

cheers,


tim

Offline tadpole

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2012, 10:15:27 PM »
Yes, you'd probably want to shorten the pole. You could I suppose drill a hole in the platform but the gubbins at ground level (phonebox, etc) would end up below the platform surface.

For added interest, signals at platform ends (eg. at Birmingham New Street) were also fitted with "RA" (Right Away) indicators, as the platforms are curved and the driver can't see much, and not all trains had bells/buzzers. I thought these were worked by platform staff, but actually they hit a "train ready" button to alert the box, and the signaller then manually lights the RA. (I'm talking 1970s here).
Two rails good. Three better.

Offline tim-pelican

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2012, 11:00:12 PM »
That's intersting - I'd been told "Run Ahead", but I can't remember where from.  Most of the current station signals on my regular commute (Greater Anglia into Liverpool St) are mounted on the end of the platform, and have a theatre box that toggles through CD (Close Doors, I presume) to RA.  There's normally a chap on the platform with a disc-on-a-stick to wave to the driver, a button for the signal and a key to unlock it, but I haven't seen staff at the smaller stations right through into the early hours of the morning (last train home leaves London something like 00:45), so I guess there must be a mechanism for unmanned / remote operation.

I'm curious now, more so than usual.  I got funny looks at work the other day when I said I'd been looking for a "missing" end-of-platform signal...

Offline point blank

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2012, 08:00:25 AM »
Just to add a bit to my previous post, the current 'Bible' relating to signal positioning is GERT8037 available to download here http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_Group_Standards/Control%20Command%20and%20Signalling/Railway%20Group%20Standards/GERT8037%20Iss%201.pdf
The part covering the area you are interested in is at the foot of page 20 and top of 21.
This gives you the option of putting the signal on either side with the left being the prepared side.
On the lines that I work over the majority of signals at island platforms are on the left hand side with only a few on the right hand, platform side.
For the purpose of your layout either side is right :thumbsup:
« Last Edit: March 07, 2012, 05:15:30 PM by point blank »

Offline edwin_m

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2012, 09:37:21 AM »
A bit of confusion here about indicators on signals. 

"Right Away" is worked by a platform staff using a keyswitch on the platform and illuminates a "RA" indicator on the signal when the platform staff can see that the train is ready to go.  It is not worked by the signaller but is interlocked so it will not light up if the signal is at danger. 

On routes where the driver operates the doors, but at this particular station platform staff are responsible for checking that the doors are OK to close, there is also a "close doors" button.  This is also operated by station staff, and lights up "CD" on the signal, usually in the same indicator before it changes to show "RA".  Not sure if this is interlocked with the signal, as it is possible they would want to clear the doors before the signal is cleared. 

The other platform switch is the Train Ready to Start.  This doesn't operate any indicators but tells the signaller and any automatic route setting system that, err, the train is ready to start.  This is used in stations where there are likely to be platform delays such as crew changes and heavy passenger use, and where there is a junction beyond the platform ends so the signaller doesn'twant to lock a route across the junction and then find that the train isn't ready to use it yet.  In this situation the route can be cancelled but it takes two minutes to release. 

Not surprisingly you won't find these switches on platforms where the train crew are reasponible for tran dispatch, and even when platform staff do dispatch they may use other methods to signal to the train crew. 

Offline bluedepot

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #8 on: March 07, 2012, 07:18:47 PM »
cheers for replies and link to the document!

i love signalling!


tim


Offline tim-pelican

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2012, 08:40:36 PM »
Tim, have you tried SigSim, PCRail or any other signalling simulations?  I'm a big fan of the second, trying to get my head around the first, always on the lookout for others...

Offline bluedepot

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2012, 10:13:29 PM »
nope not tried them

are they free to download?

cheers


tim

Offline tim-pelican

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2012, 10:19:12 PM »
Sorry, it's SimSig, not SigSim.  http://www.simsig.co.uk/ - free, but requires a lot of pointing and clicking, which is not ideal for me.  I haven't yet tried the multiplayer mode, which lets you do organized sessions over the net with hand-off between different operators / panels.

PC Rail - http://www.pcrail.co.uk/ - has a demo for each simulation that runs typically for the first 30 minutes or so of the timetable.  After that you have to pay.  The big benefit, to me, is that all the signals and points can be controlled from the keyboard.

Offline bluedepot

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2012, 09:21:21 PM »
cheers tim

i just signalled leicester from 6am to 6.30, not too challenging at that time of the day!!! a dmu terminating from nottingham and going out again to matlock was the only major highlight!!! hahaha

not sure i would pay all that money for the full version though...

best wishes,

tim

Offline scruff

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 12:30:26 AM »
Try simsig, Its free and highly addictive and their forum is a goldmine for information on signalling which comes in very handy for signalling a layout.

Cheers

Mark

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Re: island platforms and signals
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 12:49:11 AM »
Thanks for an interesting thread, folks. I just had a quick look at simsig - looks good, but haven't had time to try it yet. I will, though I guess its yet another distraction from layout construction!
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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