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Author Topic: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started  (Read 457 times)

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Offline Fredastaire

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GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« on: January 11, 2019, 04:55:29 PM »
So, next project on the workbench, a GEM ancient 7F 0-8-0 tender loco kit. first things first, i'm having a second go at low temperaure soldering.
Questions -
1/. Has anybody built one of these and can add comments?
2/. I'm wondering if id be better off using a Farish 4P Fowler tender? somewhwere ive read that the GEM tender is too short. Ive a spare Farish tender chassis and a broken 4P tender body and know that BR Lines has new tender bodies on stock.

Comments appreciated
Kind regards Fred


Offline PLD

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2019, 08:04:17 PM »
I did one a long time ago now.

The chassis conversion (extended Farish 08 diesel) was "interesting"... It can be made to work, but the whitemetal extension piece wore very quickly resulting in a limp. If I was ever to do another I'd look for other options.

Yes the tender in the kit is under length, but the Poole Farish "Fowler" tender was over length by a greater margin and also over width! (being stretched in both directions to fit the Stanier-ish chassis). A better bet would be the tender from the latest version 4F if you can find one without cannibalising a good loco. The one I did finished up with a BH Enterprises kit tender, but that was heavy and a struggle to make free running...

Offline Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2019, 09:24:09 PM »
1/. Has anybody built one of these and can add comments?

I've not built one, but have refurbished 2 - it's a fairly dated kit, but can scrub up ok.

2/. I'm wondering if id be better off using a Farish 4P Fowler tender? somewhwere ive read that the GEM tender is too short. Ive a spare Farish tender chassis and a broken 4P tender body and know that BR Lines has new tender bodies on stock.

NO! The kit tender is CORRECT length. It's the Poole Farish tenders that are overscale. So stick with the kit tender - indeed almost all my Fowler tendered locos have had the tender replaced with a BH Enterprises one that's to this length and scale. What you might want to do is change it for a BH Enterprises one, as these have even better detail finesse.

The old Poole tender top was stretched to fit the Stanier tender chassis, so Farish could keep costs down in the early 80s.

Have a look at my workbench - the latest build of a Fowler Patriot has exactly this kind of kitbuilt tender, for exactly this reason.

A new tool tender might be an option, but they're not easy to get, and may be incongruous with a superdetail tender and an aged whitemetal loco, so I'd stick with the kit tender.

HTH,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #3 on: January 11, 2019, 09:26:08 PM »
P.s. Not sure if you're missing a bag of small parts in the picture, as there doesn't appear to be the rear tender steps,chimney or dome, but N-Brass locos should be able to supply replacements in cast brass if you are short of them.
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2019, 10:13:34 AM »
Thanks Gentlemen for the replies so far. With regards to premature wear of axle bearings Im going to look and see if I can fit brass horseshoes to the outside of the axleslot in the chassis extension. Dr Alan, I do have all the sidesteps chimney and dome etc.
With a mug of tea i'm going back to the workbench now.................................

Kind regards Fred

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2019, 12:24:57 PM »
Tender progress - The GEM tender construction of having to install the wheels during soldering i didnt like and after trying it the axles werent in line, so.....I had a Farish Black 5 tender chassis in the bits box. Ive decided to install the standard farish style tender chassis. I checked the size of the GEM axleboxes and found them to be undersize on the wheels centrelines so had to choose the GEM dimensions. Ive used the vernier caliper and re-marked out the farish chassis block then cut two new axle slots. The result is a chassis with GEM dimensions and a standard Farish rear coupler socket for the Rapido coupler. next is to make two brass strip crossmembers to solder in to the Tender body.

Now another query that somebody may be able to help with. For the main Loco chassis I have to add on the GEM extension block. Its not quite so easy as my donor 08 chassis albeit Farish Poole is a later edition than the GEM kit was designed for. I was wondering about soldering it in place so have played with a spare Farish chassis to test solders. Ive tried low, medium and high melting point solders with both 'Duncans acid flux' and Fry's paste flux - result - I cant get solder to 'take'. Is soldering to a Farish die cast metal a 'no go'?
Comments appreciated.
Kind regards Fred


Offline Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #6 on: January 13, 2019, 09:44:21 PM »
- I cant get solder to 'take'. Is soldering to a Farish die cast metal a 'no go'?

Forget it. You can't solder to Mazak alloy.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline PLD

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #7 on: January 13, 2019, 10:45:55 PM »
I had a Farish Black 5 tender chassis in the bits box. Ive decided to install the standard farish style tender chassis. I checked the size of the GEM axleboxes and found them to be undersize on the wheels centrelines so had to choose the GEM dimensions.
The wheelbase of the GEM tender is only 1-2 mm short of what it should be for a Fowler Tender. The Black 5 chassis being a Stanier Tender is correctly about 4mm longer than that...

Offline Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2019, 11:03:04 PM »
The Black 5 chassis being a Stanier Tender is correctly about 4mm longer than that...

Indeed. Checking drawings of the tenders:

The Fowler tender was an inch or so over 22'6" (inc buffers), so to 2.0625mm/ft is ~46.4mm.

The Stanier tender was an inch or so over 24'6" (inc buffers), so to 2.0625mm/ft is ~50.5mm.

This is why the Farish Stanier tender chassis (which is the same as used under the stretched Farish Fowler tenders) is too long for a correct Fowler model - the wheel spacing on the Fowler is 6'6"+6'6"; the Stanier is  7'6"+7'6". It does look here like Fred may have moved the wheel slots in it from his photo however.

HTH,
Alan

Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #9 on: January 13, 2019, 11:52:52 PM »
Dr Al is correct, ive copied the GEM dimensions and cut new slots. Im now to trial the tender pickups to see if the ‘fingers’ will marry up with the repositioned axles. Next is to shorten the front end and think of a pocket for the link coupler to the 08 chassis in standard format.

As previously mentioned i need to work out how to attach the GEM chassis extension block. As i cant solder it and am cautious about epoxy on a ‘flat face’ ‘flat face’ joint im wondering maybe about drilling and tapping horizontally into the 08 chassis end face to screw them together.
Suggestions welcome.

Offline Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2019, 12:10:07 AM »
As previously mentioned i need to work out how to attach the GEM chassis extension block. As i cant solder it and am cautious about epoxy on a ‘flat face’ ‘flat face’ joint im wondering maybe about drilling and tapping horizontally into the 08 chassis end face to screw them together.
Suggestions welcome.

What do the GEM instruction say to do? I forget how this was done, but I don't think it necessarily was actually attached to the chassis in any way - was it not attached to the body?

I'd start by trying GEM's suggestion - it'll probably work ok.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

Offline Fredastaire

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2019, 09:49:35 AM »
Hi Dr Al, The GEM kit i'm guessing would date to 1970's? and was designed for a farish 08 chassis of that period with the U spring couplings on a loop, I guess they've long gone to the Farish recycling breakers.

This is the chassis I have, the black plastic Farish base cover plate is different, there is no hole for a vertical screw so that got to be drilled by hand and countersunk. second ive got to cut off the two top rectangular pegs off it, third its got a rebate exactly under the axleslot.

I'm to look and see if i can do that drilling in the cover plate, do a trial fit to the GEM loco baseplate and perhaps fit a top angle bracket using the hole in the GEM block and a new horizontal tapped hole in the Farish chassis. Finally it will need its own cover plate to retain the new axle.

(I thought together with the GEM Fowler tank that I had two quick easy projects - umm perhaps not)

So back to the workbench for a perusal.....
Kind regards Fred


Offline Dr Al

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Re: GEM Fowler 8F 0-8-0 kit started
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2019, 09:53:08 AM »
Yes, the original design chassis had a screwhole holding the body at this end of the keeper plate.

I'd just drill that hole frankly - or I may have an older baseplate you could swap in.

In terms of the old chassis - still plenty about.

Cheers,
Alan
Quote from: Roy L S
If Dr Al is online he may be able to provide a more comprehensive answer.

“We have also arranged things so that almost no one understands science and technology. This is a prescription for disaster. We might get away with it for a while, but sooner or later this combustible mixture of ignorance and power is going to blow up in our faces.”Dr. Carl Sagan

 

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