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Author Topic: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)  (Read 6402 times)

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Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #60 on: February 04, 2020, 07:25:33 AM »
Viaduct is almost ready for paint.



It's not perfect but I think it captures the general appearance of the thing.  Handrails are some 3D printed items I found on eBay.  They are a bit overscale thickness but nice and strong: painted mid-grey they should be fairly inconspicuous.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #61 on: February 04, 2020, 07:44:18 AM »
Richard, stop worrying.

It's bloody brilliant, mate.  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #62 on: February 04, 2020, 08:11:33 AM »
Richard, stop worrying.

It's bloody brilliant, mate.  :thumbsup:

Thanks for your kind words.  I'm quite excited now this project is starting to come together.  I've wanted to model the Waverley Route since I was a teenager but never had the space for it until now. Stobs has really got its hooks into me: I must have spent hours studying photos looking for details to include. It wasn't a popular place for photographers so I'm having to make a little material go a long way.  Luckily the viaduct has survived so I had some good photos of it to work on.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #63 on: February 04, 2020, 08:20:06 AM »
Well just comparing it to the picture in the book above, it's gold. Awesome work.  :beers:

That picture shows an interesting freight consist, too, by the way.  :thumbsup:

Your fencing on the bridge will be totally acceptable.  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #64 on: February 04, 2020, 10:01:09 AM »
That picture shows an interesting freight consist, too, by the way.  :thumbsup:

Bealman,

What makes you describe it as interesting? I'm modelling the Waverley Route too and that consist does not look unusual to my eyes. Am I taking something for granted?

Cheers
Dave

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #65 on: February 04, 2020, 10:08:26 AM »
I'm modelling the Waverley Route too

Fancy being part of the operating team for Stobs when I get it on the show circuit around 2022?

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #66 on: February 04, 2020, 08:38:33 PM »
Big problems with the baseboards.  I've added a fair bit of extra bracing and they still wobble like a jelly.  Admittedly the joints are glued and screwed and the glue hasn't set yet, but I'm not confident.  I could keep adding extra braces, stiffeners etc but the weight is creeping up all the time, and if the basic design was sound they wouldn't need a load of extra bits and pieces added on.

It occurs to me (drawing on my motor vehicle experience) that I'm basically building a ladder frame chassis here.  There are two ways to stop such a chassis twisting: a big cruciform brace in the middle, and deep box section crossmembers.  I think the problem with my boards is the crossmembers.  They are ply beam construction, same as the side members, and twist quite easily under load.  At the moment I'm thinking of replacing them with square box section crossmembers made from 6mm ply over softwood formers.  I can (I think) do this without having to write off all the work I have already done. 

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #67 on: February 05, 2020, 12:31:21 PM »
Baseboard-wise I am now officially in the poo.  After further thought I decided box-section crossmembers would be less useful than extra bracing. I added a large cruciform brace to the board I have been trying to strengthen.  Much better, but still a fair bit of twist which seemed to be coming from the ends.  I added triangular braces to the ends, and a couple more bits elsewhere.  The weight has now doubled from 7 to 14kg with all the bracing, and the thing still flexes.  As you can see from the photo I have got to the stage where I have given up trying to make everything neat and square underneath, and once you get to that stage it is often better to give up and start again.



I'm still not sure what exactly I have done wrong here.  We are not talking about a huge amount of flexibility, but Stobs is being built as a pure exhibition layout. I haven't got room to put up the whole thing with storage loops at home, so even testing will mean transporting the boards to my workshop.  I don't want to be able to twist the boards by hand even fractionally as any movement will cause problems over time with track and scenery..  Maybe I am asking too much.  I have used well-established constructional methods, all joints glued and screwed etc etc.  Perhaps boards built using the Barry Norman ply-beam method always flex a bit.

Back to the drawing board. I am going to forget everything I have read about baseboard construction and start from first principles, looking at frames used in other application such as motorsport, where torsional rigidity is critical.  I need a strong, light, utterly rigid subframe on which the layout will sit.  I'm tempted by the ply-skinned Styrofoam system used on Wickwar and elsewhere, but have nagging doubts about its long-term stability.

Grrr.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #68 on: February 05, 2020, 12:42:13 PM »
Richard,

Here's my approach to baseboards. Now these are heavy because I don't plan to exhibit my layout, and I learn't the hard way that baseboards like these (as used on Basingstoke) are real back breakers.



But the depth of the frame is what stops the board twisting, quite literally two of us have tried to twist the baseboards corner to corner and there is no movement. With Basingstoke there were also diagonal braces on each board to tie opposite corners together.

Also this is a fiddle yard board so has a flat top glued and screwed to the frame. For scenic boards I use the same frame and brace diagonally, with a lot more (4) cross braces.

I get this exact construction isn't an option for exhibition layouts, but hopefully some ideas.

Cheers
Dave
« Last Edit: February 05, 2020, 12:44:13 PM by DCCDave »

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #69 on: February 05, 2020, 01:52:09 PM »
Richard,

Here's my approach to baseboards. Now these are heavy because I don't plan to exhibit my layout, and I learn't the hard way that baseboards like these (as used on Basingstoke) are real back breakers.



But the depth of the frame is what stops the board twisting, quite literally two of us have tried to twist the baseboards corner to corner and there is no movement. With Basingstoke there were also diagonal braces on each board to tie opposite corners together.

Also this is a fiddle yard board so has a flat top glued and screwed to the frame. For scenic boards I use the same frame and brace diagonally, with a lot more (4) cross braces.

I get this exact construction isn't an option for exhibition layouts, but hopefully some ideas.

Cheers
Dave

Frame depth may be where I went wrong: I thought 3" would be sufficient.  I built some boards much like yours from ply a long time ago as an experiment: they were solid topped and utterly rigid, admittedly only 12" wide though.

I may have been a bit premature writing off my boards: the one I strengthened seems to be stiffening up as the glue sets.  I'll give it 24 hours before I do anything drastic.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #70 on: February 05, 2020, 05:33:18 PM »
I bought my baseboards from Model Railway Solutions.  The one thing I learned from them is 'Glue and Screw'  It's all made from 9mm ply, but every joint is rebated, glued and then screwed.  The technique works very well and, when I make my next baseboards, I intend to use the technique on my own builds.  I hope this helps.
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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #71 on: February 06, 2020, 07:56:40 PM »
Baseboard-wise I am now officially in the poo.  After further thought I decided box-section crossmembers would be less useful than extra bracing. I added a large cruciform brace to the board I have been trying to strengthen.  Much better, but still a fair bit of twist which seemed to be coming from the ends.  I added triangular braces to the ends, and a couple more bits elsewhere.  The weight has now doubled from 7 to 14kg with all the bracing, and the thing still flexes.  As you can see from the photo I have got to the stage where I have given up trying to make everything neat and square underneath, and once you get to that stage it is often better to give up and start again.



I'm still not sure what exactly I have done wrong here.  We are not talking about a huge amount of flexibility, but Stobs is being built as a pure exhibition layout. I haven't got room to put up the whole thing with storage loops at home, so even testing will mean transporting the boards to my workshop.  I don't want to be able to twist the boards by hand even fractionally as any movement will cause problems over time with track and scenery..  Maybe I am asking too much.  I have used well-established constructional methods, all joints glued and screwed etc etc.  Perhaps boards built using the Barry Norman ply-beam method always flex a bit.

Back to the drawing board. I am going to forget everything I have read about baseboard construction and start from first principles, looking at frames used in other application such as motorsport, where torsional rigidity is critical.  I need a strong, light, utterly rigid subframe on which the layout will sit.  I'm tempted by the ply-skinned Styrofoam system used on Wickwar and elsewhere, but have nagging doubts about its long-term stability.

Grrr.

Richard
Hi Richard
Im just wondering how wide those boards are? Obviously narrower boards would be stiffer.
However, I just wonder whether it is becaue you havent put a top on it yet? Obviously adding anything on the top will stiffen the board cosiderably. Even just a simple tarckbed of a few inches wide will add stiffness.
cheers
Kirky
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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #72 on: February 06, 2020, 09:26:15 PM »

Hi Richard
Im just wondering how wide those boards are? Obviously narrower boards would be stiffer.
However, I just wonder whether it is becaue you havent put a top on it yet? Obviously adding anything on the top will stiffen the board cosiderably. Even just a simple tarckbed of a few inches wide will add stiffness.
cheers
Kirky

I agree with Kirky.  Rather than that heavy bracing, I think what you want to try to achieve is a box section.  There is a lot of scope to add a thin sheet to the top... and to the bottom... with cut-outs where required.  Probably a lot lighter as well.

Best wishes.

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Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2020, 07:47:33 AM »
Thanks everyone for your input.  Yes it would be much easier to get the things rigid with a solid top, but much of the scenery will be below trackbed level.  With hindsight it would have been easier to build solid boards and put the trackbed on risers with access holes, but I thought that would make the wiring and point motor access too fiddly.  Now the glue has set I'm happier than I was with the stiffness, and glueing Styrofoam blocks to the frame to build up the contours will help I think.

I am now doing the first of the storage loop boards.  These should be simpler being basically 4 x 2 solid topped ply boxes, but have a few extras to make life awkward.  Firstly a 3 x 2 folding flap on one end, with a triangular infill between the 3' wide and 2' wide parts.  Secondly I want to incorporate integral folding legs (with bracing struts to keep the legs and folding flap upright)  The idea will be to erect the storage loop boards first and then hang the main boards off them.  For an exhibition layout I reckon the fewer bits and pieces you have to cart around the better so I am trying to integrate everything (legs, transport protection, screens around the storage loops) into the boards themselves.  All with an absolute maximum weight of 20kg per board.

I seriously understimated the time it would take to build the boards for Stobs.  It's a long time since I built anything bigger than a small branch terminus, and even the "big layout" that my Dad and I built in the garage forty years ago was just Sundeala tops on softwood frames, nailed together (literally) in a day.  This thing is going to have several hundred individual bits of wood by the time I've finished it.  Hopefully it will then stand up to ten years or more being carted around the country in a Transit van.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2020, 08:02:49 AM »
Sorry, just got back to this.

When I said the freight consist was interesting, I was in no way being critical. It just reminded me of how varied things used to be back then.

Plus it makes for a great train!  :thumbsup:
Vision over visibility. Bono, U2.

 

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