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Author Topic: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)  (Read 2975 times)

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Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #45 on: January 16, 2020, 05:01:05 PM »
Farish V2 - slipped to a standstill but I was expecting that. This model is not known for its pulling power. I'm looking at adding tender drive (using a Farish B1 tender) and keeping the loco drive as well, which should give plenty of grunt if it works.
Richard
This will be interesting in DCC. Its unlikely that youll get two matched motors and therefore will no doubt need two decoders since you are going dcc. So the decoder in the B1 tender is easy - its already got a socket and space. But the V2 doesnt have da dcc socket - I cant remember if its a can motor or not? If it is, its an easier conversion but you still need to find space for that decoder which you might have hidden in the tender if it was just one motor.
And then you have to run it as a consist. And with two unmatched motors this takes a bit of doing. Good fun though.
Looking forward to the results.
Cheers
Kirky
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Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #46 on: January 16, 2020, 11:05:50 PM »

This will be interesting in DCC. Its unlikely that youll get two matched motors and therefore will no doubt need two decoders since you are going dcc. So the decoder in the B1 tender is easy - its already got a socket and space. But the V2 doesnt have da dcc socket - I cant remember if its a can motor or not? If it is, its an easier conversion but you still need to find space for that decoder which you might have hidden in the tender if it was just one motor.
And then you have to run it as a consist. And with two unmatched motors this takes a bit of doing. Good fun though.
Looking forward to the results.
Cheers
Kirky

Both locos look to have the same 8 x 16 can motor, and I'm hoping the speed of the two is close enough that I can run them off a single chip, with two wires connecting the front motor in parallel with the rear one.  Otherwise I'll have to do as you suggest which will start getting expensive.  But Stobs without a V2 would be like Burns Night without haggis.

Richard

Offline kirky

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2020, 08:04:09 AM »
I will watch with interest. Ive not done that, run two motors from one chip, although should be possible. I dont think cost should be that much of a problem - 10 for Laisdcc decoder? Of courdse you could be looking at super small decoders to fit inside that V2 shell. Im excited by the entire project...

good luck Richard
Northallerton will make its next public appearance at the LINCOLN MODEL RAILWAY CLUB ANNUAL EXHIBITION Feb 29th -1st Mar 2020



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Offline Roy L S

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2020, 09:38:01 AM »
I honestly don't think it necessary to double up on the motors (albeit an interesting project from a technical challenge perspective). My black V2, now tender driven and DCC, comfortably (if somewhat un-prototypically) manages the 35 wagon "Windcutter" empties on Rugby Central. I chose the black one because to me the horrible boiler skirt is far less obvious than on the green ones.

It would be so good if a new tool one follows the new 00 one, I think it is fairly well known that the one that got released in N has at least some of it's development history in the Poole era, and a new coreless motor loco drive one sound fitted would be simply mind-blowing (to me anyway - I have a sound fitted A2 already and the three cylinder beat is unmistakeable).

Roy

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #49 on: January 17, 2020, 09:54:31 AM »
I honestly don't think it necessary to double up on the motors (albeit an interesting project from a technical challenge perspective). My black V2, now tender driven and DCC, comfortably (if somewhat un-prototypically) manages the 35 wagon "Windcutter" empties on Rugby Central. I chose the black one because to me the horrible boiler skirt is far less obvious than on the green ones.

It would be so good if a new tool one follows the new 00 one, I think it is fairly well known that the one that got released in N has at least some of it's development history in the Poole era, and a new coreless motor loco drive one sound fitted would be simply mind-blowing (to me anyway - I have a sound fitted A2 already and the three cylinder beat is unmistakeable).

Roy

Farish will announce a new-tooling V2 about a month after I have completely reworked mine. I've heard mixed reports about the pulling power of the B1 tender drive. IIRC there is a bit of scope to add more weight by replacing the ally/zinc cast ballast weight with shaped lead, ditto the cast coal load.   Possibly one advantage of removing the motor from the loco would be that I could rework the body and get rid of the skirt.  You're right, it looks terrible. It also opens up the possibility of fitting a speaker inside the loco. 

I really want sound on this layout but I've listened to a couple of "sound project" recordings for V2s and they sound nothing like the well-used St Mags examples that Peter Handford captured on tape back in 1961. "Making a noise like a jazz band" as one photographer described it. I know nothing at all about DCC sound: I wonder how easy it would be to use a Handford recording as the basis for a V2 sound chip.

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #50 on: January 19, 2020, 08:46:25 PM »
I have been bumbling along this weekend on various projects trying to get something finished so I can tidy up the workbench a bit.  The viaduct is coming along steadily but at some point I will have to tackle the handrails which are a little daunting.  I suspect I'll end up soldering them together from nickel silver wire just to make them reasonably strong. 

Meanwhile I thought I would get the signalbox finished.  One of the hardest things in modelling in my experience is to put hours of work into something, look at it and be able to honestly admit to yourself that it isn't good enough and needs doing again.  I made two mistakes with the signalbox early on.  One was that the windows were fractionally too small, which I decided I could live with at the time.  The other was that I didn't give enough thought as to how I was going to glaze the thing.  I cut the window apertures in the card sides the same size as the Plastikard overlays.  I have used Metcalfe printed window frames just because I have loads of them: I thought I could glue them to thick clear plastic using Uhu, cut them exactly to size to fit the window apertures and then use Sellotape to hold them in place.  The end result was rubbish: not only were they wonky but you couldn't see through them which was a shame as the signalbox has a detailed interior and LED lighting.

How to fix this without starting again from scratch?  I decided to just deal with the windows at the front as the ones at the ends didn't look too bad and aren't really visible from normal viewing angles.  I started by making up a new upper front section with Plastikard windowframes glued to the back.  This was then painted.



Time to be brave:  I removed the upper cladding from the front of the signalbox then cut a large aperture for the backs of the windows.  The signalman seems unbothered by the disruption and is attending to his block instruments.



New front glazed and glued in place, various other bits and pieces done and the whole thing weathered.  I still have to add gutters and downpipes, a nameboard and a couple of other little bits, but basically it's done.  The box will be platform mounted, hence the stairs suspended in mid-air.



This gives a little idea of how it will be positioned on the platform, next to the footbridge which I built a year ago.



Next job will probably be to construct the one and only turnout in the scenic section. After that, baseboards. 

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #51 on: January 19, 2020, 09:44:35 PM »
The signalman seems unbothered by the disruption and is attending to his block instruments.




What is the world coming to? You turn your back for one moment and...................... :o

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #52 on: January 22, 2020, 12:12:24 PM »
A bit more experimentation last night.  I ordered some colour-changing LED light strips off Ebay (6.99 inc postage) and stuck them to the lighting bar on Longframlington to see what they did.  Very interesting, the blue LEDs gave me just the kind of moonlit night effect I was looking for.  Playing around with reds and oranges gave me a nice dawn / dusk effect, but the white LEDs weren't bright enough for normal daytime illumination. Word of warning: do not switch off the room lights and then try to view the layout in darkness under pure red LED lighting.  It does weird things to your head.

So my theory, that I could simulate night-time with blue LED lighting, is basically sound, but I'm a long way from having a workable solution for layout lighting.  Ideally I want to be able to integrate various coloured LEDs with the bright white ones, on a single fader control so I can shift the lighting progressively from day to night and back.  Dimming the LEDs in itself shouldn't be an issue: I have a couple of high frequency PWM controllers left over from previous experiments which should take care of that side of things.  The problem is integrating four different strings of dimmable LEDs, each with a different fade pattern (which needs to be adjustable so I can play around until I get the colour balance right), into a single control knob or slider.  Or even better, a single push button that shifts the lighting slowly from night to day or vice versa over a time period of say a couple of minutes. This is way beyond my knowledge of electronics at the moment. 

I will also need to try and limit the ambient light reaching the layout from overhead lighting at exhibition venues, probably by having some kind of top cover which overhangs the layout at the front to shield it.  As far as possible the layout needs to be lit with the LEDs rather than room lighting or daylight.  This kind of theatrical lighting is something I haven't seen a lot of at exhibitions.  If I can make it work it will be awesome: a moonlit night with the signalbox, platform lamps, waiting room and signals illuminated, working head and tail lamps, carriage lighting and maybe even a bit of firebox glow on DCC if I can squeeze a couple of LEDs in behind the backhead on the big Pacifics.  Add sound effects to the mix (locos and background) and there will be an awful lot going on for a simple little through station with only one goods siding.

Meanwhile construction has started on the giant D10 semi-curved turnout that leads to the goods siding.  The geometry is dictated by it being on a very large radius left hand curve, and it will make a Peco large radius turnout look like Setrack.  I'm playing around with 2mm Association etched chairplates at the moment, trying to get the construction technique right.  As it is the only turnout I need to build I can afford to take my time over it.

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #53 on: January 22, 2020, 01:44:35 PM »
A quick bit of Google research over lunch: it seems I can run the lighting off a laptop using a DMX driver, MagicQ software and dongle.  The information came from this very interesting thread on layout lighting: https://www.blue-room.org.uk/index.php?showtopic=66806  As so often, I find the hobby taking me into a whole new area that I knew nothing about.  It's one of the reasons I love railway modelling.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2020, 03:31:46 PM »
I will also need to try and limit the ambient light reaching the layout from overhead lighting at exhibition venues, probably by having some kind of top cover which overhangs the layout at the front to shield it.  As far as possible the layout needs to be lit with the LEDs rather than room lighting or daylight.  This kind of theatrical lighting is something I haven't seen a lot of at exhibitions.  If I can make it work it will be awesome: a moonlit night with the signalbox, platform lamps, waiting room and signals illuminated, working head and tail lamps, carriage lighting and maybe even a bit of firebox glow on DCC if I can squeeze a couple of LEDs in behind the backhead on the big Pacifics.  Add sound effects to the mix (locos and background) and there will be an awful lot going on for a simple little through station with only one goods siding.

Richard
For their layout 'Wickwar' the Farnham and District MRS N gauge group played about with a mix of warm white and bright white LEDS to get somthing that looked more like natural outdoor light, it really makes a difference.

If you are ever at an exhibition where Wickwar is on show I suggest you take a look and ask one of the operators to explain (and show you) the mix of LED strips installed under the pelmet.

Cheers
Dave

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #55 on: January 23, 2020, 10:11:31 AM »

Richard
For their layout 'Wickwar' the Farnham and District MRS N gauge group played about with a mix of warm white and bright white LEDS to get somthing that looked more like natural outdoor light, it really makes a difference.

If you are ever at an exhibition where Wickwar is on show I suggest you take a look and ask one of the operators to explain (and show you) the mix of LED strips installed under the pelmet.

Cheers
Dave

Thanks for that.  I had a quick look at the FDMRS website and they are doing the same thing I want to do - fading from daylight to moonlight using coloured LEDs.  They don't seem to feel the need to shield the layout from overhead lighting, looking at the photos.

Wickwar was already on my radar: there is an article in the latest 2mm Assoc journal about how the baseboards are constructed using thin ply and Styrofoam.  It's a pity I didn't read it before I started building mine, although I could always use the beams I have constructed for the storage loop boards and try Wickwar-style construction for the scenic boards.  It looks like a very good way to get a light, rigid structure.

Richard

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #56 on: January 26, 2020, 10:36:18 PM »
A weekend of insanely fiddly trackbuilding, resulting in one turnout and one catch point.  I'm glad I'm modelling Stobs and not Shankend which had a proper goods yard and a crossover as well.



The long turnout (shown here with a large radius Peco turnout for comparison) is built much the same way as the last three I did for "Longframlington", i.e. a soldered PCB skeleton for strength, with plastic sleepers and chairs filling in the gaps.  This time I used 2mm Association etched chairs on the PCB sleepers, which are very tricky indeed to bend to shape: about one in four ended up in the bin.  The plastic chairs are Finetrax with the locating pips cut off. 

The catch point is a cut down Finetrax A5 turnout which I was given a while ago, I think by someone on here although I cannot remember who. I suspect it was a very early example and the milled base had a slight right hand curve in it: absolutely perfect for its intended location.  I still have to add tiebars to both points: these will be the same under-track units I developed for Longfram, which have proved themselves reliable in exhibition use and are discreet almost to the point of being invisible.

As a bit of light relaxation when the turnouts got just too fiddly I have been assembling lengths of Finetrax flexi track using the jig as shown below:



A very handy piece of kit.  The flexi track comes in kit form: 500mm lengths of rail, and panels of six sleepers.  The jig takes four panels at a time, holding them in alignment so the rails can be easily slid through the chairs.  It's a nice easy job provided you deburr the rail ends and get the rails the right way up: the upper side (the running surface) is slightly larger than the lower.  The rails will fit the chairs upside-down but sliding them through is hard work so you soon realise if you have got it wrong.

Meanwhile the viaduct is coming along steadily although I'm still putting off doing those handrails.  Hoping to put the baseboards together next weekend by which time I should have all my track ready to go down.  I have been thinking about trackbed materials: after the problems I have had with cork and especially balsa I have ordered some 1mm closed cell foam sheet to experiment with.  The problem with the Finetrax is that it is thoroughly flexible in all planes and will faithfully reproduce any imperfections in the surface on which it is laid.  Peco Streamline is much more tolerant of small lumps and bumps in the baseboard.

I'm still hoping to run a train on 1st April (50th anniversary of the last train through Stobs apart from tracklifting trains) but there is an awful lot to do between now and then. 

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2020, 06:10:07 PM »
Here we go: I reckon that a layout exists once you have some baseboards.  This morning I cleared some space in the workshop, set to work assembling the frames and remembered how much I hate woodworking.  Wood is a treacherous and fickle material.  It's very good for making trees from but that's about all the credit I will give it.



However it wasn't too long before I was back in familiar territory, wielding angle grinder and MIG welder to make the connecting plates which join, align and strengthen the ends of the boards. 



The result of this morning's work - the two open frame boards for the scenic section.  Trackbed still to be added, along with a bit of bracing.  I'm a bit worried at how flexible the boards turned out: hopefully things will improve when the glue has set.  I suspect it will need a fair bit of extra bracing.



The long bits at each end are actually the side members for the storage loop boards which will attach to the scenic boards at right angles.  The boards themselves will be conventional ply box construction.

Tomorrow I will hopefully acquire a couple of 4x2 sheets of 9mm ply, then mark out and cut the trackbed ready to attach to the frames.  I'm trying to work out the best way to brace the trackbed to keep it flat - possibly some battens underneath with spacer blocks.  I don't want to just attach battens direct to the underside of the trackbed as they will get in the way of the dropper wires.

Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #58 on: February 02, 2020, 05:47:48 PM »
Another bit of wood.  Track plan drawn in Templot, printed full size and glued to a sheet of 9mm ply using PVA glue applied with a radiator roller.  Even with an ultra thin layer of glue the paper still cockled up in places but the actual trackbed is flat enough.  The viaduct is positioned roughly where it will go on the layout, close to the join between the two boards.  Next job is to mark out the edges of the trackbed (including station platforms) then cut out the two trackbed sections with a jigsaw.



Richard

Offline belstone

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Re: Stobs (Waverley Route, 1961)
« Reply #59 on: February 03, 2020, 10:08:54 AM »


Feeling a bit down this morning  :(  I've checked the baseboard frames and even though the glue has now set they still have an outrageous lack of rigidity.  They don't bend lengthways, but they twist with minimum effort.  They are heavier than I expected as well.  Maybe I was expecting too much from the ply-beam construction.  I haven't built open top baseboards before.  I'm not quite sure how I can brace these up enough to make them properly rigid without the bracing getting in the way of the landscaping, and also making the boards too heavy to handle.

I might try running a beam across the back with diagonal braces downwards onto the crossbeams. The gound will slope up quite sharply towards the back, so provided I keep everything below trackbed level that should work OK.  Whether it will be strong enough is another matter.

Richard

 

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